What are the symptoms of acute chlorine deficiency???????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?

[Radium]

Richard Schultz wrote in http://groups.google.com/group/sci.l-
ife-extension/msg/ab9c99d4e0d834a5?hl=en&
:
> But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?

Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.

Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if some
mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my body to
disappear?

AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I think
that mysterious power would do me a great favor by eliminating
those unecessary chlorine particles that invade my body.

I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
lost all its chlorine.

[Tc]

http://www.feinberg.northwestern.edu/nutrition/factsheets/chl-
orine.html

"Dietary requirements for chlorine have not been established
because dietary deficiencies have not been observed."

TC

Radium wrote:
> Richard Schultz wrote in http://groups.google.com/group/sci-
> .life-extension/msg/ab9c99d4e0d834a5?hl=en&
> :
> > But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?
>
> Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
> completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
> have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.
>
> Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
> some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
> body to disappear?
>
> AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I
> think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
> eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that invade
> my body.
>
> I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
> lost all its chlorine.

[Dlzc]

Dear Radium:

Radium wrote:
> Richard Schultz wrote in http://groups.google.com/group/sci-
> .life-extension/msg/ab9c99d4e0d834a5?hl=en&
> :
> > But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?
>
> Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
> completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
> have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.

I disagree. The "sour stomach" can be produced by
bacteria as well.

> Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
> some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
> body to disappear?
>
> AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I
> think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
> eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that invade
> my body.
>
> I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
> lost all its chlorine.

http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html alkalosis
hypochloremia anorexia

David A. Smith

[D. C. Sess]

In message
<1169066199.040574.190520@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Radium wrote:

> Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
> completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
> have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.

True -- you'd be stone dead.

--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable
| | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber
| cartel. | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try
| www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com>
--------------+

[capmack]

> But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?

"Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.

Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if some
mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my body to
disappear?

AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I think
that mysterious power would do me a great favor by eliminating
those unecessary chlorine particles that invade my body.

I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
lost all its chlorine."

How much hcl do you think is produced? In answer to your last
question, likely death. What function do you think the hcl
plays in digestion and what would happen if it did not do so?
What other parts of metabolism and normal life process do you
think depend on chlorine?

[Erlend Mey]

Radium:
:
> Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
> some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
> body to disappear?

Permanent deadness.

Actually you don't have any chlorine in your body. You do
however have a lot of chlorides, and I assume that's what you
were talking about.

> AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all.

Yes we do.

> Really, at all.

No really, we do.

> I think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
> eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that invade
> my body.

There are no mysterios powers, and if you really want to die
there are simpler ways.

--
Erlend Meyer

When I am king you will be first against the wall

[Cognite Tu]

Radium wrote:
> Richard Schultz wrote in http://groups.google.com/group/sci-
> .life-extension/msg/ab9c99d4e0d834a5?hl=en&
> :
>
>>But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?
>
>
> Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
> completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
> have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.
>
> Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
> some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
> body to disappear?
>
> AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I
> think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
> eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that invade
> my body.
>
> I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
> lost all its chlorine.
>

choride is an essential element.

see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html

j.

[Tc]

cognite tute wrote:
> Radium wrote:
> > Richard Schultz wrote in http://groups.google.com/group/s-
> > ci.life-extension/msg/ab9c99d4e0d834a5?hl=en&
> > :
> >
> >>But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?
> >
> >
> > Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
> > completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably
> > wouldn't have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.
> >
> > Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
> > some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
> > body to disappear?
> >
> > AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I
> > think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
> > eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that
> > invade my body.
> >
> > I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
> > lost all its chlorine.
> >
>
>
> choride is an essential element.
>
> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>
> j.

That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
fluoride, another poison.

TC

[Mark]

Radium wrote:

<snip>

>
> I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
> lost all its chlorine.

Well, if your body had much chlorine to begin with, you'd
already be hurtin'. I mean scorched lungs, burned skin and
eyes...it's a really nasty substance.

If you're talking about chlor*IDE*, a sudden loss of all
your body's chloride would result in a sudden loss of life.
It is essential to the function of basically every cell in
your body.

Mark, MD

[Jason John]

In article <45afa159$0$258$1c4686b2@selenium.club.cc.cmu.edu>,
capmack@shipper.com wrote:

> But just what do you think gastric fluid consists of?

"Enzymes and a small amount of HCl acid. If I were to
completely rid myself of chlorine ions, I probably wouldn't
have a sour stomach no matter what I ate.

Any other ideas as to what symptoms I would experience if
some mysterious power were to cause all the chlorine in my
body to disappear?

AFAIK, we don't need chlorine at all. Really, at all. I
think that mysterious power would do me a great favor by
eliminating those unecessary chlorine particles that
invade my body.

I would like to know what would happen if my body suddenly
lost all its chlorine."

How much hcl do you think is produced? In answer to your last
question, likely death. What function do you think the hcl
plays in digestion and what would happen if it did not do so?
What other parts of metabolism and normal life process do you
think depend on chlorine?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I found a book in my small book collection related to this
subject. It's a 200 page book related to the dangers of table
salt (sodium chloride). One of the authors is a medical
doctor. The authors claim that sodium chloride is the cause of
high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney disease,
osteoporosis and asthma.

"The Salt Solution" by Herb Boynton, Mark F. McCarty and
Richard, D. Moore, M.D.

I am salt sensitive and learned that I can control my Blood
pressure and fluid retention problem by limiting the salt in
my diet and eating foods (eg bananas) that increase the amount
of potassium in my diet.

After you read the above mentioned book, you will be an expert
related to sodium chloride and will no longer need to ask
questions about this subject.

Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[D. C. Sess]

In message
<1169079751.781756.243060@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
Radium wrote:
> Patricia Heil wrote:

>> You also wouldn't have blood. Your blood serum contains
>> sodium chloride. So much for not dying.
>
> Can't the serum contain sodium ions without chloride ions?
> If not, whats stopping such an existence?

Sure -- you could have hydroxyl ions instead, in which case
you'd have a blood pH of about 12 and die.

Or you could have acetate ions instead, in which case acetate
toxicity would be lethal.

Or you could have fluoride ions instead, in which case the
neurotoxicity of hyperfluorosis would kill you stone dead.

There are, after all, *lots* of anions. Substituting any of
them for all of the (copious) chlorine in your body would be
quite, quite lethal. Don't assume that Mother Nature is
totally clueless.

--
| Bogus as it might seem, people, this really is a deliverable
| | e-mail address. Of course, there isn't REALLY a lumber
| cartel. | There isn't really a Santa Claus, but try
| www.santaclaus.com. |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <dcs@lumbercartel.com>
--------------+

[capmack]

> choride is an essential element.
>
> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html

"That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
fluoride, another poison."

As par for the course you did not refer to the link or you
would know in the first paragraph alone why the above is pure
rhetorical bombast. If we need an "anti" sound bite on any
subject we need only turn to you, even if only generic noise
for any occasion.

[Bob]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2007 09:01:27 -0800, jason@nospam.com (Jason
Johnson) wrote:

>
>I found a book in my small book collection related to this
>subject. It's a 200 page book related to the dangers of table
>salt (sodium chloride). One of the authors is a medical
>doctor. The authors claim that sodium chloride is the cause
>of high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney disease,
>osteoporosis and asthma.
>
>"The Salt Solution" by Herb Boynton, Mark F. McCarty and
>Richard, D. Moore, M.D.
>
>I am salt sensitive and learned that I can control my Blood
>pressure and fluid retention problem by limiting the salt in
>my diet and eating foods (eg bananas) that increase the
>amount of potassium in my diet.

That has nothing to do with chlorine (or chloride). It is the
sodium that is the culprit (for those who are sensitive to
it). Potassium chloride is sold as a salt substitute for those
who want/need to reduce sodium intake.

bob

[spamfree]

On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
<tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> choride is an essential element.
>>
>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>
>> j.
>
>That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>fluoride, another poison.

Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
of industry.

Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But, it
is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in the
atmosphere.

jack

[spamfree]

On 18 Jan 2007 06:35:23 -0800, "TC"
<tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:

>http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/addison/addison.htm
>
>No mention of chloride in relation to Addisons's Disease.

quote:

"Because of salt loss, a craving for salty foods also is
common."

Troll, or moron, which is it?

jack

[Tc]

spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2007 06:35:23 -0800, "TC"
> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/addison/addison.htm
> >
> >No mention of chloride in relation to Addisons's Disease.
>
> quote:
>
> "Because of salt loss, a craving for salty foods also is
> common."
>
> Troll, or moron, which is it?
>
>
> jack

Salt is not chloride, nor is it sodium. Both, by themselves,
are dangerous and deadly. Salt is Sodium Chloride. Which is
a safe compound to consume only in that form. You should
know that.

TC

[Tc]

spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> choride is an essential element.
> >>
> >> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
> >>
> >> j.
> >
> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
> >fluoride, another poison.
>
> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
> industry.
>
> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But, it
> is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in the
> atmosphere.
>
> jack

You should learn a bit about bio-chemistry. Sodium Chloride is
not the same as Sodium or Chloride or Sodium and Chloride.
Sodium is deadly. Chloride is deadly. Sodium Chloride is salt
and is safe and edible.

TC

[Peterb]

Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>
> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> choride is an essential element.
> >>
> >> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
> >>
> >> j.
> >
> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
> >fluoride, another poison.
>
> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
> industry.
>
> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in
> the atmosphere.
>
> jack
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet
> and now check the labels on every food product that I buy.
> Many products (eg soup) contains really high lables of salt.
> It's difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery
> stores. I now buy most of my food at the local health food
> store. They even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do
> not realize that they eat MUCH for table salt than what they
> should eat. I do believe that eating too much salt can cause
> blood pressure problems in many people--especially if they
> are above the age of 50. jason
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In terms of causation, this is largely a myth. Only one in
four is genetically predisposed to high sodium retention, and
the available science shows clearly that a salt-restricted
diet is not associated with fewer cardiovascular events or
disease [ref. http://www.saltinstitute.org/28.html.] People
forget that most bio-markers for "disease" are just coincident
phenomenon that have nothing to do with causation. That means
two people can have the same bio-markers without having the
same (or any) disease response. One half of all heart attacks
occur in people with "normal" cholesterol readings. Although
blood pressure is commonly associated with disease rates, this
does not mean your particular bio-markers are a forecast. The
RDI for sodium intake is larger than for any other nutrient,
so it should come as no surprise that reduced salt intake is
not going to make a hill of beans difference to longevity. The
antagonist/synergist relationship characteristic of every
mineral, including the electrolytes, means we should pay more
attention to the potential imbalance in serum mineral ratios
rather than try to manage our disease risk with one of many
possible co-factors. If you want to improve you disease risk,
observe whether you are sensitive to salt retention. If you
are, you will experience edema, and that is indeed a heart
stressor. If not, then sodium intake is not an issue for you.
A diet that *does* represent an improvement in your disease
risk profile is one low in grains (not more than 15% of total
caloric intake, with a preference for sprouted grains), low to
no dairy (not more than 15% of caloric intake, with a
preference for cultured or raw dairy), grass-fed meat if you
are not a vegetarian (not more than 15% of total caloric
intake), and fruits and vegetables making up the remaining
55-70%. To be sure you get adequate potassium, eat one whole
avocado or several bananas each week. Eat wild salmon twice or
more monthly, or you can take 2tsp of quality cod liver oil
daily. Eat a variety of *raw* nuts several times a week. Avoid
packaged foods (for MANY reasons more important than sodium
levels.) Do all that and you'll liver longer than most people
with equivalent genetics.

PeterB

[Radium]

Mark wrote:
> If you're talking about chlor*IDE*,

Yes I am.

> a sudden loss of all your body's chloride would result in a
> sudden loss of life. It is essential to the function of
> basically every cell in your body.

What symptoms specific to acute chlorine loss would occur
before death?

[Jason John]

In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:

On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
<tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> choride is an essential element.
>>
>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>
>> j.
>
>That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>fluoride, another poison.

Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
of industry.

Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But, it
is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in the
atmosphere.

jack

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet
and now check the labels on every food product that I buy.
Many products (eg soup) contains really high lables of salt.
It's difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery stores.
I now buy most of my food at the local health food store. They
even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do not realize
that they eat MUCH for table salt than what they should eat. I
do believe that eating too much salt can cause blood pressure
problems in many people--especially if they are above the age
of 50. jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Mark Probe]

spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> choride is an essential element.
>>>
>>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>>
>>> j.
>> That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>> excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>> fluoride, another poison.
>
> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
> industry.
>
> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But, it
> is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in the
> atmosphere.

I live right on the (salt)water and that stuff is corrosive,
just from the atmosphere.

[Vernon]

"TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1169224239.376386.173010@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> choride is an essential element.
>> >>
>> >> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>> >>
>> >> j.
>> >
>> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>> >fluoride, another poison.
>>
>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
>> industry.
>>
>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
>> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in
>> the atmosphere.
>>
>> jack
>
> You should learn a bit about bio-chemistry. Sodium Chloride
> is not the same as Sodium or Chloride or Sodium and
> Chloride. Sodium is deadly. Chloride is deadly. Sodium
> Chloride is salt and is safe and edible.
>
> TC
>

Yes, in very limited quantities, otherwise the level of
"sodium" in the body gets too high.

[Mark Probe]

Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>
> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> choride is an essential element.
> >>
> >> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
> >>
> >> j.
> >
> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
> >fluoride, another poison.
>
> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
> industry.
>
> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in
> the atmosphere.
>
> jack
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet
> and now check the labels on every food product that I buy.
> Many products (eg soup) contains really high lables of salt.
> It's difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery
> stores. I now buy most of my food at the local health food
> store. They even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do
> not realize that they eat MUCH for table salt than what they
> should eat. I do believe that eating too much salt can cause
> blood pressure problems in many people--especially if they
> are above the age of 50. jason
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It also makes you retain water, which can affect your pressure
and your heart.

I do not have table salt in my home. There is NO need for it.

[Radium]

vernon wrote:
> Falling down and breathing stopped.

Any interesting neurological symptoms before the above?
Any seizures?

[Radium]

N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
> Any idea what you will use for the anion that Cl- provides,
> so that the sodium-potassium pump so necessary for cell
> health continues to function?

I wish I knew

[N:Dlzc D:A]

Dear Radium:

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1169270351.397459.228340@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> vernon wrote:
>> Falling down and breathing stopped.
>
> Any interesting neurological symptoms before the above? Any
> seizures?

Any idea what you will use for the anion that Cl- provides, so
that the sodium-potassium pump so necessary for cell health
continues to function?

David A. Smith

[N:Dlzc D:A]

Dear Radium:

"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1169271873.383637.149160@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
>> Any idea what you will use for the anion that Cl- provides,
>> so that the sodium-potassium pump so necessary for cell
>> health continues to function?
>
> I wish I knew

You've got bromine and iodine to choose from. Iodine is
important but you can get too much of it. Bromine is OK in
small quantities, but can interfere with iodine and
more-or-less deactivate your thyroid.

If your gut is hurting you, have you seen a doctor? There are
a number of causes for "sour stomach", some of which medicine
has answers. I used to have a duodenal ulcer, and took
Tagamet for
it. Along with lifestyle changes like: a divorce, a change of
job, going back to school, and changing to a more bland
diet. Turns out, it was likely something an antibiotic
could have fixed.

David A. Smith

[Mark]

Radium wrote:
> vernon wrote:
> > Falling down and breathing stopped.
>
> Any interesting neurological symptoms before the above? Any
> seizures?

I'm not sure there's even anything such as a specific disease
state characterized as "Hypochloremia" alone. The obvious
example of hypochloremia as *part* of another disease state
would be metabolis alkalosis, such as might be seen with
profuse vomiting resulting in loss on HCl from the GI tract
(and compensatory increased reabsorption of HCO3- by the
kidneys as it would be the prevalent anion available if the
amount of chloride were low -- thus resulting in the
alkalosis.) You would see weakness, lethargy, failure to
thrive (in infants and children), but these really represent
the alkalosis and not specifically the hypochloremia.

Chloride is such a ubiquitous anion in living animal systems
that any significant downward perturbation in its levels would
simply be incompatible with life.

Musing on "What would happen if I radically reduced my body's
level of chlorine (sic)" is just as much a waste of mental
effort as saying, "Let's say I removed my lungs. What would
happen next?" Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're flogging
a dead horse with this one.

Mark, MD

[spamfree]

On 19 Jan 2007 14:59:55 -0800, "Radium"
<glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:

>Mark wrote:
>> If you're talking about chlor*IDE*,
>
>Yes I am.
>
>> a sudden loss of all your body's chloride would result in a
>> sudden loss of life. It is essential to the function of
>> basically every cell in your body.
>
>What symptoms specific to acute chlorine loss would occur
>before death?

A white light in the distance, and approaching very fast....

jack

[spamfree]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:02:47 -0800, jason@nospam.com (Jason
Johnson) wrote:

>You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet and now
>check the labels on every food product that I buy. Many
>products (eg soup) contains really high lables of salt. It's
>difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery stores. I
>now buy most of my food at the local health food store. They
>even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do not realize
>that they eat MUCH for table salt than what they should eat.
>I do believe that eating too much salt can cause blood
>pressure problems in many people--especially if they are
>above the age of 50.

Hi Jason. Yes there are some folk who have problems with
sodium chloride (or any other sodium ions, to be precise.
Diuretics can help here, but of course not taking so much in
the first place is best if it can be managed. A trick that an
old plumber friend of mine did was to "borrow" large bottles
of distilled water from the large laboratory stills that he
helped to service. Tap water where I come from can be up to
500ppm tds (total dissolved solids) which is mostly from
sodium chloride. That would save him a gram of sodium chloride
intake just from his two litres per day.

jack

[spamfree]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:45:16 GMT, Mark Probert
<markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

>spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> choride is an essential element.
>>>>
>>>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>>>
>>>> j.
>>> That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>>> excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>>> fluoride, another poison.
>>
>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred of
>> industry.
>>
>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of its
>> omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even in
>> the atmosphere.
>
>I live right on the (salt)water and that stuff is corrosive,
>just from the atmosphere.

I used to live at the beach, and my car radiators corroded
from the outside. The fins all fell off.

jack

[spamfree]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:46:18 GMT, Mark Probert
<markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:

>Jason Johnson wrote:
>> In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>
>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> choride is an essential element.
>> >>
>> >> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>> >>
>> >> j.
>> >
>> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>> >fluoride, another poison.
>>
>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
>> of industry.
>>
>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of
>> its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even
>> in the atmosphere.
>>
>> jack
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet
>> and now check the labels on every food product that I buy.
>> Many products (eg soup) contains really high lables of
>> salt. It's difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery
>> stores. I now buy most of my food at the local health food
>> store. They even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do
>> not realize that they eat MUCH for table salt than what
>> they should eat. I do believe that eating too much salt can
>> cause blood pressure problems in many people--especially if
>> they are above the age of 50. jason
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>It also makes you retain water, which can affect your
>pressure and your heart.
>
>I do not have table salt in my home. There is NO need for it.

I use a spicy mixture called Lemon Pepper which has citric
acid, garlic , black pepper(20%), paprika, celery seed, lemon
peel granules sugar and onion and stuff with somewhat less
sodium chloride. Great on a rare rump steak :=)

jack

[Mark Probe]

spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:45:16 GMT, Mark Probert
> <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> choride is an essential element.
>>>>>
>>>>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>>>>
>>>>> j.
>>>> That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>>>> excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>>>> fluoride, another poison.
>>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
>>> of industry.
>>>
>>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of
>>> its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even
>>> in the atmosphere.
>> I live right on the (salt)water and that stuff is
>> corrosive, just from the atmosphere.
>
> I used to live at the beach, and my car radiators corroded
> from the outside. The fins all fell off.

I had to use a special coating for the metal fixtures used on
the exterior of my house. All new construction had special
nails and screws.

I use polyurethane coating on my deck and dock where I can.
Even special treated lumber does not last. Salt water is
nasty stuff.

[Jason John]

In article <8194r2t7uqegmh0njgn29apo5ppo1l1f67@4ax.com>,
spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:02:47 -0800, jason@nospam.com (Jason
Johnson) wrote:

>You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt diet and
>now check the labels on every food product that I buy. Many
>products (eg soup) contains really high lables of salt. It's
>difficult to find low salt foods in most grocery stores. I
>now buy most of my food at the local health food store. They
>even sell soup that has NO salt. Most people do not realize
>that they eat MUCH for table salt than what they should eat.
>I do believe that eating too much salt can cause blood
>pressure problems in many people--especially if they are
>above the age of 50.

Hi Jason. Yes there are some folk who have problems with
sodium chloride (or any other sodium ions, to be precise.
Diuretics can help here, but of course not taking so much in
the first place is best if it can be managed. A trick that an
old plumber friend of mine did was to "borrow" large bottles
of distilled water from the large laboratory stills that he
helped to service. Tap water where I come from can be up to
500ppm tds (total dissolved solids) which is mostly from
sodium chloride. That would save him a gram of sodium
chloride intake just from his two litres per day.

jack

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks, I already use that trick. I only drink distilled
water. I have had problems with diurectics. They caused be to
have major electrolyte problems. I have minor kidney
problems. Jason
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Vernon]

"Mark" <mlowry3@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1169316118.665065.140090@s34g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Radium wrote:
>> vernon wrote:
>> > Falling down and breathing stopped.
>>
>> Any interesting neurological symptoms before the above? Any
>> seizures?
>
>
> I'm not sure there's even anything such as a specific
> disease state characterized as "Hypochloremia" alone. The
> obvious example of hypochloremia as *part* of another
> disease state would be metabolis alkalosis, such as might be
> seen with profuse vomiting resulting in loss on HCl from the
> GI tract (and compensatory increased reabsorption of HCO3-
> by the kidneys as it would be the prevalent anion available
> if the amount of chloride were low -- thus resulting in the
> alkalosis.) You would see weakness, lethargy, failure to
> thrive (in infants and children), but these really represent
> the alkalosis and not specifically the hypochloremia.
>
> Chloride is such a ubiquitous anion in living animal systems
> that any significant downward perturbation in its levels
> would simply be incompatible with life.
>
> Musing on "What would happen if I radically reduced my
> body's level of chlorine (sic)" is just as much a waste of
> mental effort as saying, "Let's say I removed my lungs. What
> would happen next?" Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're
> flogging a dead horse with this one.
>
> Mark, MD
>

Careful, PETA may be monitoring the posts.

[Mark Probe]

spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:46:18 GMT, Mark Probert
> <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
>> Jason Johnson wrote:
>>> In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
>>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>>
>>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >> choride is an essential element.
>>> >>
>>> >> see
>>> >> http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>> >>
>>> >> j.
>>> >
>>> >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>>> >excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>>> >fluoride, another poison.
>>>
>>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
>>> of industry.
>>>
>>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of
>>> its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even
>>> in the atmosphere.
>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt
>>> diet and now check the labels on every food product that I
>>> buy. Many products (eg soup) contains really high lables
>>> of salt. It's difficult to find low salt foods in most
>>> grocery stores. I now buy most of my food at the local
>>> health food store. They even sell soup that has NO salt.
>>> Most people do not realize that they eat MUCH for table
>>> salt than what they should eat. I do believe that eating
>>> too much salt can cause blood pressure problems in many
>>> people--especially if they are above the age of 50. jason
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> It also makes you retain water, which can affect your
>> pressure and your heart.
>>
>> I do not have table salt in my home. There is NO need
>> for it.
>
> I use a spicy mixture called Lemon Pepper which has citric
> acid, garlic , black pepper(20%), paprika, celery seed,
> lemon peel granules sugar and onion and stuff with somewhat
> less sodium chloride. Great on a rare rump steak :=)
>
> jack

Try it on fresh flounder, caught and filleted minutes before
broiling. It also does a nice job with yellowfin and bluefish.

[Vernon]

"Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:ZCrsh.103$gS1.54@trndny01...
> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:45:16 GMT, Mark Probert
>> <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>>
>>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>>>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> choride is an essential element.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> see http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> j.
>>>>> That is nonsense being advocated by industries that have
>>>>> excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did with
>>>>> fluoride, another poison.
>>>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
>>>> of industry.
>>>>
>>>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life. But,
>>>> it is almost impossible to show a deficiency because of
>>>> its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the sea, it is even
>>>> in the atmosphere.
>>> I live right on the (salt)water and that stuff is
>>> corrosive, just from the atmosphere.
>>
>> I used to live at the beach, and my car radiators corroded
>> from the outside. The fins all fell off.
>
> I had to use a special coating for the metal fixtures used
> on the exterior of my house. All new construction had
> special nails and screws.
>
> I use polyurethane coating on my deck and dock where I can.
> Even special treated lumber does not last. Salt water is
> nasty stuff.

What beach is that? I lived within a couple hundred yards of
the beach in Santa Monica, California for 14 years - no
problem. Car fine Wood porch fine (House about 50 years old)
girls fine

BUT yes salt water is not the greatest. The Entire East coast
from Vermont to Florida is crud and it has little to do with
salt water.

[Mark Probe]

vernon wrote:
> "Mark Probert" <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in
> message news:ZCrsh.103$gS1.54@trndny01...
>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 21:45:16 GMT, Mark Probert
>>> <markprobert@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
>>>>> On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
>>>>> <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> choride is an essential element.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> j.
>>>>>> That is nonsense being advocated by industries that
>>>>>> have excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did
>>>>>> with fluoride, another poison.
>>>>> Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
>>>>> of industry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life.
>>>>> But, it is almost impossible to show a deficiency
>>>>> because of its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the
>>>>> sea, it is even in the atmosphere.
>>>> I live right on the (salt)water and that stuff is
>>>> corrosive, just from the atmosphere.
>>> I used to live at the beach, and my car radiators corroded
>>> from the outside. The fins all fell off.
>> I had to use a special coating for the metal fixtures used
>> on the exterior of my house. All new construction had
>> special nails and screws.
>>
>> I use polyurethane coating on my deck and dock where I can.
>> Even special treated lumber does not last. Salt water is
>> nasty stuff.
>
> What beach is that? I lived within a couple hundred yards of
> the beach in Santa Monica, California for 14 years - no
> problem. Car fine Wood porch fine (House about 50 years old)
> girls fine
>
> BUT yes salt water is not the greatest. The Entire East
> coast from Vermont to Florida is crud and it has little to
> do with salt water.
>
>
It is an inlet, and I am directly on the water. I do not have
a couple of hundred yards of buffer.

[Abbas El-T]

Gastric fluid (juice)is one of the juices produced by the
gastric glands (oxyntic is one of them). It contains enzymes
like Pepsinogen (inactive form of pepsin), etc, Hydrochloric
acid and some other organic and inorganic substances.
Deficiency of chlorine is a very uncommon physiological
condition, which if present, may lead to a situation where the
human 'internal environment', especially the blood, becomes
more basic (alkalosis). It worths mentioning, here, that the
human body is not static, but dynamic, self-directory and self
regulatory. Normally, when such abnormal conditions occur, the
body itself, with the help of the co-operative actions of
different cells, tissues, organs, and even systems (in short,
body buffer systems, which are many), the lost homeostatic
balance is restored and the PH returns to normal. Chlorine
enters into the body system through food ingestion, mainly
inform of sodium chloride, potassium chloride and side effects
caused by excess ingestion are normally from the cation and
not chlorine.

ABBAS EL-TA'ALU

[Richard Sc]

In sci.chem dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote:
: Radium wrote:

:> Damn! I lose again!!
:
: If you learned something, what have you lost?

Unfortunately, the obvious lesson (that he should make the
effort to learn some elementary chemistry, biology and
physics) appears to be one that he is incapable of learning.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of
Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions
expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"

[Mr. Natura]

Death!

Of course, just like it was reported in the news you would
have to be some kind of a mentally defective moron to drink
that much water.

[N:Dlzc D:A]

Dear Richard Schultz:

"Richard Schultz" <schultr@mail.biu.ack.il> wrote in message
news:eovg6q$d01$1@news.iucc.ac.il...
> In sci.chem dlzc <dlzc1@cox.net> wrote:
> : Radium wrote:
>
> :> Damn! I lose again!!
> :
> : If you learned something, what have you lost?
>
> Unfortunately, the obvious lesson (that he should make the
> effort to learn some elementary chemistry, biology and
> physics) appears to be one that he is incapable of learning.

Well, the signs are not good, but there is always hope...

David A. Smith

[Richard Sc]

In sci.chem "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dlzc@aol.com>
wrote:

:> Unfortunately, the obvious lesson (that he should make the
:> effort to learn some elementary chemistry, biology and
:> physics) appears to be one that he is incapable of
:> learning.
:
: Well, the signs are not good, but there is always hope...

Well, since even planaria can learn (eventually) the
difference between left and right, maybe you're right.

-----
Richard Schultz schultr@mail.biu.ac.il Department of
Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel Opinions
expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"

[Peterb]

Jason Johnson wrote:
> In article
> <1169241581.003515.35700@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "PeterB" <pkm@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jason Johnson wrote:
> > In article <qas0r2p6hs7j7q04qovl9l3dm1affe4h6t@4ax.com>,
> > spamfree@spam.heaven wrote:
> >
> > On 18 Jan 2007 13:29:14 -0800, "TC"
> > <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> choride is an essential element.
> > >>
> > >> see
> > >> http://www.traceminerals.com/research/chloride.html
> > >>
> > >> j.
> > >
> > >That is nonsense being advocated by industries that
> > >have excess chloride to sell. Kinda like what they did
> > >with fluoride, another poison.
> >
> > Excess chloride to sell? You are obsessed by your hatred
> > of industry.
> >
> > Look sunshine, sodium chloride is essential to life.
> > But, it is almost impossible to show a deficiency
> > because of its omnipresence. Within 100 miles of the
> > sea, it is even in the atmosphere.
> >
> > jack
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > jack, You are 100 per cent correct. I am on a low salt
> > diet and now check the labels on every food product that
> > I buy. Many products (eg soup) contains really high
> > lables of salt. It's difficult to find low salt foods in
> > most grocery stores. I now buy most of my food at the
> > local health food store. They even sell soup that has NO
> > salt. Most people do not realize that they eat MUCH for
> > table salt than what they should eat. I do believe that
> > eating too much salt can cause blood pressure problems in
> > many people--especially if they are above the age of 50.
> > jason
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> In terms of causation, this is largely a myth. Only one in
> four is genetically predisposed to high sodium retention,
> and the available science shows clearly that a
> salt-restricted diet is not associated with fewer
> cardiovascular events or disease [ref.
> http://www.saltinstitute.org/28.html.] People forget that
> most bio-markers for "disease" are just coincident
> phenomenon that have nothing to do with causation. That
> means two people can have the same bio-markers without
> having the same (or any) disease response. One half of all
> heart attacks occur in people with "normal" cholesterol
> readings. Although blood pressure is commonly associated
> with disease rates, this does not mean your particular
> bio-markers are a forecast. The RDI for sodium intake is
> larger than for any other nutrient, so it should come as no
> surprise that reduced salt intake is not going to make a
> hill of beans difference to longevity. The
> antagonist/synergist relationship characteristic of every
> mineral, including the electrolytes, means we should pay
> more attention to the potential imbalance in serum mineral
> ratios rather than try to manage our disease risk with one
> of many possible co-factors. If you want to improve you
> disease risk, observe whether you are sensitive to salt
> retention. If you are, you will experience edema, and that
> is indeed a heart stressor. If not, then sodium intake is
> not an issue for you. A diet that *does* represent an
> improvement in your disease risk profile is one low in
> grains (not more than 15% of total caloric intake, with a
> preference for sprouted grains), low to no dairy (not more
> than 15% of caloric intake, with a preference for cultured
> or raw dairy), grass-fed meat if you are not a vegetarian
> (not more than 15% of total caloric intake), and fruits and
> vegetables making up the remaining 55-70%. To be sure you
> get adequate potassium, eat one whole avocado or several
> bananas each week. Eat wild salmon twice or more monthly,
> or you can take 2tsp of quality cod liver oil daily. Eat a
> variety of *raw* nuts several times a week. Avoid packaged
> foods (for MANY reasons more important than sodium levels.)
> Do all that and you'll liver longer than most people with
> equivalent genetics.
>
> PeterB
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> PeterB, I am salt sensitive. I retain salt and water. I
> experience edema. That's the reason that I avoid eating
> foods that have high amounts of salt. My research
> indicates that many of the people that have this problem
> have weak kidneys. Doctor Mackenzie Walser discusses this
> subject in his book which is entitled, "Coping With Kidney
> Disease". Jason
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alright, but don't think of it as "weak kidneys," think of it
as your phenotype's relationship to ancestors whose sodium or
potassium requirements would have been compromised by your
"adapted" diet. Due to biochemical individuality, we all
respond differently to the same amount of individual
nutrients, whereas most disease attributed to "organ failure"
is just an imbalance in metabolic processes that results in
organ stress. A better approach is to raise your intake of
foods rich in sodium antagonists (ie., potassium, magnesium,
zinc, and folic acid) rather than reducing your sodium intake
to potentially dangerous levels. You could accomplish this
with magnesium aspartate or glycinate supplements, which are
well absorbed (avoid magnesium oxide), and folic acid tablets,
but I would avoid potassium supplements because they don't
work well.