Vegetarian Myths

[Nancy LC]

Found this article, quite good!
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html
MYTH #11: The human body is not designed for meat consumption.

Some vegetarian groups claim that since humans possess grinding teeth, like herbivorous animals, and longer intestines than carnivorous animals, this proves the human body is better suited for vegetarianism.123 This argument fails to note several human physiological features which clearly indicate a design for animal product consumption.

First and foremost is our stomach's production of hydrochloric acid, something not found in herbivores. Hydrochloric acid activates protein-splitting enzymes. Further, the human pancreas manufactures a full range of digestive enzymes to handle a wide variety of foods, both animal and vegetable.

Dr Walter Voegtlin's in-depth comparison of the human digestive system with that of the dog (a carnivore) and the sheep (a herbivore) clearly shows that we are closer in anatomy to the carnivorous dog than the herbivorous sheep.124 While humans may have longer intestines than animal carnivores, they are not as long as herbivores; nor do we possess multiple stomachs like many herbivores; nor do we chew cud. Our physiology definitely indicates a mixed feeder or an omnivore--much the same as our relatives the mountain gorilla and chimpanzee, who have all been observed eating small animals and in some cases other primates.125

[kaypeeoh]

The human animal survived because it was less restricted in what it could digest. Herbivores die when the winter lasts so long that new grasses haven't grown in time. Carnivores die when they can't find prey. Our intermediate-length bowel allows the best of both worlds. Even our teeth suggest being an omnivore. Incisors for tearing meat and molars for grinding grains.

[Nancy LC]

I don't think I teeth were designed for grinding grains. :p

Have you ever tried to eat uncooked rice or wheat? Not to mention that it contains a lot of stuff that, uncooked, are really bad for you and actually not even completely removed by cooking, like lectins (http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html).

I once got very, very sick by eating a bowl of raw wheat bran. Too many lectins. I always wondered why that bowl of bran made me so sick, it took me 30 years to find out why. :)

[venter]

the adoption of grains took place relatively recently and is unlikely to have had any impact on human dentition (outside of a decline in general oral health and increased dental carries). it is more likely that the configuration and shape of our teeth were becoming more carnivore-like, and that remaining likenesses to herbivore dentition is a vestige.

[LarryAJ]

I regret that I must take exception to much of what you have said. The human animal survived because it was less restricted in what it could digest. This sounds like you consider that the principle reason for our success as a species. While it is probably true, it is almost NOT the primary reason for our survival. Rather I would rate the enlarged brain and opposable thumb as more significant. Neither of which have anything to do with digestion but rather the ability to locate and obtain sustenance. For example, the ability to use a rock to break the skull open, that jaws cannot do with large skulls, thus gaining the fat rich brain as food. Herbivores die when the winter lasts so long that new grasses haven't grown in time. Come now, reindeer in the arctic regions are herbivores, yet they survive quite well when the grass is covered in snow and dead. But this statement has zero value in supporting the "Man is an Omnivore." position. Carnivores die when they can't find prey. Well yes, everything dies if it fails to have sustenance. Another zero value statement in supporting the "Man is an Omnivore." position. Our intermediate-length bowel allows the best of both worlds. The length of the bowel has less to do with being an omnivore than the other differences in the human digestive system, such as HCl in the stomach , or the enzymes that are produced to break down the food eaten. All of which support the view that man is a carnivore. Even our teeth suggest being an omnivore. Incisors for tearing meat and molars for grinding grains. I do not see it that way! Here is a quick synopsis of Animal Teeth as found in Omnivores, Insectivores, Carnivores, and Herbivores. (http://www.k12.de.us/warner/teeth.html) Note that they all have molars. Moreover, each species have teeth adapted to their preferred diet within each of the categories above. Since humans, and their genetic ancestors, could hold with their hands tools that could be used to kill, the need for large canines to hold and kill was diminished. Indeed, our lips are such that biting is not efficient like that of a dog or cat, which can easily curl the lips well out of the way so they can bit without catching their own lips in the bitting process.

As for the issue of molars, they are at the back of the jaw where they can apply the greatest pressure, one reason to have them large. A dog or cat will use the molars at the back of the jaw to chew off something that is tough. They also use them to break the smaller bones to get the marrow from inside them. The human molar is ridged like a carnivore since we do not rotate our jaw to grind our food, rather just chop it into smaller chunks that swallow easier.

[kallyn]

This sounds like you consider that [our digestion] the principle reason for our success as a species. While it is probably true, it is almost NOT the primary reason for our survival. Rather I would rate the enlarged brain and opposable thumb as more significant. Neither of which have anything to do with digestion but rather the ability to locate and obtain sustenance.
Emphasis mine.

I would argue that digestion and big brains are not independant variables as you have suggested, but instead are intimately entwined: http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0100-84551997000100023&script=sci_arttext

I also agree with the spirit of kaypeeoh's post if not the exact phrasing. :) Man is a generalist and that is why he is so successful.

[bluesmoke]

Both the chimpanzee and mountain gorilla cited above actually have digestive tracts much closer to herbivores than us. The mountain gorilla eats a a totally plant based diet and the chimpanzee a primarily plant based one, though thanks to Ms. Goodall we know the chimpanzee does hunt and eat some meat. Nyah Levi

[Nancy LC]

One misconception about the gorilla diet is that it contains no animal products. On the contrary, all of the great ape groups take in some animal protein, whether overtly or inadvertently, by consuming insects, insect eggs and the larvae that nest on the plants and fruits they eat. In her pioneering work on chimpanzees, Jane Goodall discovered to her amazement, and to the amazement of the rest of the world, that chimpanzees kill and eat monkeys and make a tool to extract termites from their hills (homes), and that they went to considerable effort to obtain these foods. It is also significant that meat is the only food they share with other chimpanzees

Except for the insects. That's one thing I think vegans would be a lot better off if they ate insects. :p

Diet:

The diets of the eastern and western gorilla populations differ considerably. Eastern animals are predominantly folivorous, but those in the west eat great quantities of fruit. Eastern gorillas feed primarily on leaves, shoots and stems (86% of the diet in one study). Galium vines, wild celery and three or four other species make up a high proportion of the diet. Small amounts of wood, roots, flowers, fruits, and grubs also are eaten. In the western populations, fruits are the most important element in the gorillas’ diet, although they also eat leaves, pith and stems (e.g. wild ginger). In a study undertaken on one western lowland gorilla group in Gabon, it was found that the fruits of at least 95 plant species were utilized. It was also found in Gabon that the gorilla frequently breaks into termite nests to feed on the insects inside. Western gorillas have also been observed wading through shallow pools and swamps to harvest water plants. They further differ from eastern animals in that they occasionally include some animal food in their diet. On the other hand, it has been observed that mountain gorillas had ample opportunity to eat eggs, helpless young birds, and the honey of stingless bees but never did. (Stuart & Stuart 1996, Kingdon 1997, Nowak 1999)

Gorillas rarely drink - they get their moisture from the plants they eat. (Wildl. Cons. 1999)
http://www.animalinfo.org/species/primate/gorigori.htm#Diet

Hmmm... this is interesting:
In more typical environments, he said, gorillas compete aggressively with chimps for available meat sources (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050223144712.htm) , and offer useful clues to the dietary adaptations of our early hominid ancestors.