How the rich get thin

[Demi]

Daily Mail
London, UK
19 December, 2006


She's diet doctor to the stars. Now, in a new book, Dr Jana Klauer shares her secrets and reveals how, incredibly, you can drop a dress size in just three days:

It’s easy to assume, as you flick through the pages of a glossy magazine, that the successful and famous people you are looking at are simply born different from the rest of us – privileged, attractive and above all, slim.

In my experience, however, the opposite is true. Almost all of them have worked very hard to get where they have – and that includes their enviably fit and slender physiques.But how do they manage it?

I have worked as a doctor and nutritionist for many years and my speciality is helping people lose weight. Although I’ve worked with obese people in hospitals in New York in the past, I am now concentrating on my private practice in Park Avenue where my patients include some of the most important and successful people in New York.

From celebrities to ladies who lunch and from politicians to Wall Street financiers I have helped them all to get the lean, shapely figures they now enjoy. And now I’m going to share my simple weight loss regime with you.

You don’t need to be wealthy to follow my diet because it doesn’t require you to buy obscure or expensive foods. But you can learn from my Park Avenue clients in one respect: namely their determination to see the plan through and succeed. This is the real reason my clients are as successful at losing weight as they are at everything else – they are motivated and hard working.

One of my clients is a very famous actress who managed to lose 30lb by following my diet faithfully to get in shape for a Broadway play she was starring in. She ended up winning an Emmy for her performance – and such was her commitment to staying in shape that she even avoided champagne and stuck to mineral water at the celebration party.

If you follow my plan you should drop a dress size in just three days - and within eight weeks you will look and feel 10 years younger. So what are you waiting for?

How the diet works

My weight loss programme is high in protein, omega-3 fats which are vital to health, calcium, and complex carbohydrates in the form of vegetables. This ensures you’ll have all the nutrients you need and that you’ll never feel hungry.

Studies have shown that people lose weight faster on a high-protein diet than any other type. This is partly because the body needs three times as many calories to digest protein as it does carbohydrates and fats and also because protein helps you to feel satisfied for longer.

You’ll be eating high quality proteins such as egg whites, any seafood or shellfish, low fat organic dairy products, organic poultry and organic meat. Another vital component of the diet is calcium. We all know that calcium is important for our health to prevent osteoporosis, particularly in women.

But research has also shown calcium can also help us lose weight – particularly targeting flabby tummies. In one recent American study a group of overweight people were given 1200mg of dairy-derived calcium in their diet and another was given none. Their diets were otherwise identical in terms of calories and the proportions of fat, carbohydrate and protein.

However the group with the calcium intake lost 70 per cent more weight than the low-calcium group - and three times as much flab from their waists. Vegetables contain carbohydrates – but are digested slowly because of the quantity of fibre. They also contain antioxidants which the body needs to repair itself.

Drop a dress size now

You could easily drop a dress size (8lb) on this radical high protein three-day programme - which is the reason I recommend it to my wealthy and famous clients when they’re desperate to get into a revealing dress for a special occasion.

It’s also the perfect way to kick-start your diet plan because it will get rid of bloating, giving you a flatter tummy, and allow you to break down fat quickly while preserving your lean muscle mass.

The reason this radical regime works is that carbohydrates causewater retention – so if you eliminate these, exercise and drink lots of water – youwill see an immediate effect.

Just eat only the items that are recommended. Donot add anything - it is only forthree days! You must drink 2 to 3 litres of water every day to help reduce puffiness.

Begin your exercise regime of one hour per day. If the hour is impossible for you to do, do half an hour. Brisk walking, running, cycling or an aerobics class are all ideal. Swimming is good for your heart but not as effective for weight loss.


Click here to read more about the actual diet plan (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=423355&in_page_id=1879&in_a_source=)

[KvonM]

sounds like kimkins to me... *shrug*. at least the article admits that the "dress size" you lose in the first 3 days is all water weight.

[sublime]

I find some things offensive in this article. No need to further elaborate, don't care to get into a debate. ;)

[ysabella]

I went and looked at it. Compared to my diet, it's not very high in protein. I would lose muscle...no thanks!

[VALEWIS]

I went on the equivalent of this diet for a few months after stalling for 2 years just doing low carb. It worked well, and I have gone on to what amounts to lower fat Atkins maintenance plus lots of exercise since then. For some of us it is the only way to reach goal weight.

[dina1957]

I went and looked at it. Compared to my diet, it's not very high in protein. I would lose muscle...no thanks!
Protein requirements come from Lean Body Mass, approximately, 0.6g for each pound and 1g if you are a heavy lifter, not your total weight.
Threre is no storage for protein, so whatever your body does not use (to repair and re-build) will be excreted in urine.
If you are concerned to preserve your muscle mass or even gain, aerobic exercise like running, are major "muscle eaters".;)

[ysabella]

Protein requirements come from Lean Body Mass, approximately, 0.6g for each pound and 1g if you are a heavy lifter, not your total weight.
(...)
If you are concerned to preserve your muscle mass or even gain, aerobic exercise like running, are major "muscle eaters".;)

Well, yeah. I am a heavy lifter, and I have ~150 lbs. of LBM according to my Tanita. Is there some reason for assuming I'm basing it on my total body weight? :confused:
I don't hit the protein target every day, but on lifting days I generally have a shake made with cottage cheese and whey protein powder, which bumps it up considerably. Not that I'm lifting as much as I should be (work, baby, whine whine whine).

I will always do cardio - efficient lungs help with my asthma - but I certainly don't do enough to eat up muscle. It really takes a lot, at least that's what I've read.

VALEWIS, if you mean calories, I totally hear you there. Even at my size, I have to count calories. It's the only way that works for me, period.

[VALEWIS]

Well, yeah. I am a heavy lifter, and I have ~150 lbs. of LBM according to my Tanita. Is there some reason for assuming I'm basing it on my total body weight? :confused:
I don't hit the protein target every day, but on lifting days I generally have a shake made with cottage cheese and whey protein powder, which bumps it up considerably. Not that I'm lifting as much as I should be (work, baby, whine whine whine).
I will always do cardio - efficient lungs help with my asthma - but I certainly don't do enough to eat up muscle. It really takes a lot, at least that's what I've read.
VALEWIS, if you mean calories, I totally hear you there. Even at my size, I have to count calories. It's the only way that works for me, period.

Hah...I do the cott cheese and WPI shakes too...I like to have them after lifting weights.

And yes I meant calories. The diet I was on was high in protein, based on LBM. It was under 1000 cal a day so the weight flew off. My maintenance is not high calorie, but that is because I am 67 and now only weigh in the 130's.

[Absinthe62]

This is the real reason my clients are as successful at losing weight as they are at everything else – they are motivated and hard working.

Ooooohhhh, so if you fail at losing weight you're an unmotivated slacker. Right? Wow! Stereotype much?

[VALEWIS]

Well I was motivated during the 2 years I stalled...it took lowering calories, not increasing motivation to make the difference. What a lot of nonsense. Everyone needs to seek what works for them, and also to make the decision about goals as well. We don't all want to look like coat hangers.

[TheCaveman]

Threre is no storage for protein, so whatever your body does not use (to repair and re-build) will be excreted in urine.

No storage for protein? What do you think muscles are?

If you start excreting protein in your urine: watch your doctor do a Panic Dance.

[ReginaW]

Protein requirements come from Lean Body Mass, approximately, 0.6g for each pound and 1g if you are a heavy lifter, not your total weight.

I'm not sure where you got that from?

Almost every recommendation bases protein requirement on total body weight, with absolute minimum intake - male or female - being 0.8g/kg - and that being complete amino acid profile, not just protein with whatever amino acids you wind up with....which basically means you're going to eat more than this since our diet (even low-carb) includes some foods with limiting amino acids along with foods with complete amino acids.

[Nancy LC]

I'd rather know about how the Thin get Rich!

[Dodger]

I'd rather know about how the Thin get Rich!They become supermodels.

[VALEWIS]

I'm not sure where you got that from?

Almost every recommendation bases protein requirement on total body weight, with absolute minimum intake - male or female - being 0.8g/kg - and that being complete amino acid profile, not just protein with whatever amino acids you wind up with....which basically means you're going to eat more than this since our diet (even low-carb) includes some foods with limiting amino acids along with foods with complete amino acids.

Ysabella explained that she lifts weights. Body building literature is replete with protein sparing diets, and they all base protein requirements on LBM. It is incorrect to use total BW in that context. I think you are talking about average every day protein -in-the-diet recommendations for health. It is a different story when you go on a low calorie, protein sparing diet to lose body fat and gain muscle. This is what she was talking about.

[ReginaW]

Ysabella explained that she lifts weights. Body building literature is replete with protein sparing diets, and they all base protein requirements on LBM. It is incorrect to use total BW in that context. I think you are talking about average every day protein -in-the-diet recommendations for health. It is a different story when you go on a low calorie, protein sparing diet to lose body fat and gain muscle. This is what she was talking about.

Actually I quoted Dina "Protein requirements come from Lean Body Mass, approximately, 0.6g for each pound and 1g if you are a heavy lifter, not your total weight." and continued with the general recommendation for 0.8g/kg, based on total weight, as an absolute *minimum* from complete protein sources.

The ACES (http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/H/HE-0748/) maintains a page online with very specific recommendations and it too is based on total body weight, not lean body mass...this is what they have:

Athletes' Dietary Requirements For Protein
Researchers have studied the protein needs of athletes for several years. Most of these studies did find that athletes of all types (aerobic and strength) have somewhat greater protein needs as compared with the average person. The protein needs of athletes in these various studies have ranged from 0.5 to 1.2 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day. These values are just above the RDA to about three times the RDA. The usual protein recommendation for athletes is now established at 0.7 grams per pound of body weight per day. The protein needs of various athletic groups can be seen in Table 1.

Table 1. Protein Requirements Of Various Athletic Groups.
Athletic Group Protein Requirement* (grams/pound of body weight)
Elite weight lifters 0.6 to 1.3
Strength athletes 0.6 to 0.9
Endurance athletes 0.5 to 0.7
Endurance runners 0.7
Elite bodybuilders 0.5
Note: The protein requirements vary because this information is based on separate studies from different researchers.

The protein needs of aerobic athletes (runners, soccer players, etc.) increase because part of the energy used to perform aerobic work comes from protein. Aerobic athletes burn a lot of energy so this increases their protein requirement. The protein needs of strength and power athletes (weight lifters) are frequently greater because of the increase in muscle mass associated with athletes in these sports.

------

I asked where Dina got the lean-body-mass as basis for protein intake numbers because I'd not seen them before and they sound extremely low when compared with the general population recommendation and various recommendations I've seen from athletic orgs and from conversations I've had with various researchers about protein requirements (ie. Volek, Phinney, et al) - protein intake has always been presented to me based on total body weight, not lean-body mass.

Maybe it was a typo? Maybe she has a link she can provide so I can learn more?

[VALEWIS]

Can't speak for Dina. Sorry about the mix-up on who said what.
But coming back to the discussion...a lot of elite powerlifters are also quite fat. A 300 lb lifter, if using 1g/lb would then need 300g protein according to your chart. But if you look at their lean body mass, say at 40%BF, then their protein needs would be 180g, which sounds more likely. And if they were aiming to lose BF and spare muscle, it is likely they would use that as their intake. So I think it is better to use LBM as the determinant factor where possible...and often is just a guess, based on caliper measurements of BF. If you read the body builders' literature, this is what they tend to do for this reason. As you say, the relative need for protein may vary according to what sport is done. Elite runners are generally very lean anyway, so which is used wouldn't matter as much as it would for say power lifters or for very obese people trying to lose fat and sparing LBM.

When I did the protein sparing diet, I based my protein intake on my LBM estimate as generally suggested in the body building literature. But your chart takes most of this into consideration by varying the g/lb according to the needs of the sport. Most people don't have a clue about their BF percentage anyway, so using a total weight determinant is logical.

But we are off on a tangent here with regard to the original talking points about this diet.

[dina1957]

Well, yeah. I am a heavy lifter, and I have ~150 lbs. of LBM according to my Tanita.
Have you ever get your BF% measured by underwater weighing or using calipers? THese are 2 most accurate ways to measure your body fat %, I have seen these scales being off from 10-20%.

[dina1957]

Maybe it was a typo? Maybe she has a link she can provide so I can learn more?
Nope, this is not a typo. The difference is they are athletes, and we all know what it means: streneous exercise on a daily basis, heavy lifting, hard core cardio. They need this much protein to repair injured muscles, since it is what actualy heavy lifting and streneous cardio does!
I was talking about regular females that is not bench-pressing 150-pounds and thinks a 10-pound dumbell is heavy weight, and does 3-4 h moderate exercise a week.
Before being Dx with T2 diabetes, I've spent 2 years lifting (from 25 pounds dumbells to 60-80 pounds bar- still not too heavy mind you) and tryied to gain muscle mass, eating lots of quality protein, 150g +day. I did not lose an ounce, but did gained some muscles, mostly I thinkl due to intamuscular fat, LOL, and indeed gained weight; ironically developed T2. Keep in mind, I was already low carbing and avoided all starches and most fruits.More of a good thing is not always better.

...The body requires between 0.5 and 0.9 grams of protein per pound of lean muscle mass depending upon the degree of activity.
http://www.libertyzone.com/NSprotein.html
I believe also PP has a good formula of calculating protein requirements per pound of LBM. Excess protein will be also converted into glucose on a low carb diet, and will help to gain weight rather then lose it.

[dina1957]

Can't speak for Dina. Sorry about the mix-up on who said what.
But coming back to the discussion...a lot of elite powerlifters are also quite fat. A 300 lb lifter, if using 1g/lb would then need 300g protein according to your chart. But if you look at their lean body mass, say at 40%BF, then their protein needs would be 180g, which sounds more likely. And if they were aiming to lose BF and spare muscle, it is likely they would use that as their intake. So I think it is better to use LBM as the determinant factor where possible...and often is just a guess, based on caliper measurements of BF. If you read the body builders' literature, this is what they tend to do for this reason. As you say, the relative need for protein may vary according to what sport is done. Elite runners are generally very lean anyway, so which is used wouldn't matter as much as it would for say power lifters or for very obese people trying to lose fat and sparing LBM.
So true, I can't agree more. Majority of POWER LIFTERS ARE FAT, watch a competition once and you will see what I am talking about.
They need strength and indurance, not the lean and sculptured bodies. Only competitive body builders worry about fat % and mostly before competition event, so they trying to lose fat while preserving as much muscle as they can since it is not possible to lose fat and gain muscles at the same time, not by any means!!!!! The don;t have same indurance as power lifters, but have beatifully sculptured muscles.;)
Eating a lot of protein made me fatter even on a lower carb diet, it is a matter of eating the right amount, and always calculated based on LBM.

[dina1957]

No storage for protein? What do you think muscles are?

If you start excreting protein in your urine: watch your doctor do a Panic Dance.
I meant EXCESSIVE DIETARY PROTEIN, how is excessive dietary protein stored? We can store carbs in form of glycogen and fat and triglycerides in form of fat, but how do we store diteary protein that is in excess after body took what it needed fro repair and re-bilding?????
Excess protein indeed get excreted in urine. It has nothing to do with my doctor, I don't follow his adivce anyway.
Excess protein works as carbs do, just slowly, raising blood glucose and spiking insulin, espcially red meat that contains lots of glycogen.
I do not spill protein directly in urine, keep my fingers crossed, this takes impaired kidney function, but my BUN gets borderline high and I can even "smell" it.;)

[ysabella]

ReginaW, first you said grams/kg, then you had a chart of grams/pound, so I'm getting confused here. I've heard of figuring it by grams of protein per kilogram of total body weight, and by grams per pound of LBM, those are the two I know of.

dina1957, can you move your criticism of my body/regimen to my journal? Thanks.

I think we can probably all agree that this diet is basically sound, and that sufficient protein in the diet spares muscle, but proper intake does depend on your body and your fitness regimen. This is why I like the Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle book - it is not one set plan, but one that you adjust.

[dina1957]

I'm not sure where you got that from?
Almost every recommendation bases protein requirement on total body weight, with absolute minimum intake - male or female - being 0.8g/kg - and that being complete amino acid profile, not just protein with whatever amino acids you wind up with....which basically means you're going to eat more than this since our diet (even low-carb) includes some foods with limiting amino acids along with foods with complete amino acids.

I normally count only complete protein, and this means from animal sources only to assure all 22 aminoacids.

Now, let's do some math, shall we? As you stated, 0.8 g/kg of body weight is a minimum requirement, and this is just to support existing muscle mass and body functions.
Let's take an average 150 pound female, her body weight converts to 68 kg (metric system 1kg~2.2 pounds), so it leaves her with ~ 54 g protein daily. If her body fat is around 25%, this would result in 110-120 pounds of LBM. If she also exercises (weight lifting) then she needs around 0.8-1g per pound of LBM, hence her daily intake should be 100-120 g. This is twice as much as as 0.8g/kg of body weight. So, she would get more protein based on LBM rather than 0.8g-1g per kg of body weight.:lol:
I think around 100-120g of complete protein is plenty, expecially taken from animal sources.
Dr.Atkins suggested a portion of protein should be palm size, not a 20 ounces steak. Dr.Bernstein recommended starting from 6 oz per meal, and if one stalled, cut to 3-4 oz of protein per meal. I believe PP recommens approximately the same.;)

[ysabella]

Before being Dx with T2 diabetes, I've spent 2 years lifting (from 25 pounds dumbells to 60-80 pounds bar- still not too heavy mind you) and tryied to gain muscle mass, eating lots of quality protein, 150g +day. I did not lose an ounce, but did gained some muscles, mostly I thinkl due to intamuscular fat, LOL, and indeed gained weight; ironically developed T2. Keep in mind, I was already low carbing and avoided all starches and most fruits.More of a good thing is not always better.

It's practically impossible to put on muscle without putting on fat at the same time - many can do that during their very first try at training. After that, bodybuilders cycle through bulking (gaining muscle and unavoidably gaining fat) and cutting (losing fat, trying to spare muscle).

Powerlifters, I guess they just always bulk? Don't really know.

[dina1957]

dina1957, can you move your criticism of my body/regimen to my journal? Thanks.
It was not criticism, was just trying to help. I have been there, done that. Not sure why you are offended, just thought it will help with more accurate calculations.;)

I think we can probably all agree that this diet is basically sound, and that sufficient protein in the diet spares muscle, but proper intake does depend on your body and your fitness regimen. This is why I like the Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle book - it is not one set plan, but one that you adjust.
I do have the BFFM book and like Tom Venuto's thinking. But this is also a low carb forum, so I doubt anyone is protein defficient here :lol:
AFAIK, BFFM is not a low carb plan but rather low fat plan, which however, gives you room to play carbs but not lower than 25% of calories, and protein/requirements are based on LBM.

[dina1957]

It's practically impossible to put on muscle without putting on fat at the same time - many can do that during their very first try at training. After that, bodybuilders cycle through bulking (gaining muscle and unavoidably gaining fat) and cutting (losing fat, trying to spare muscle).
Well, I never considered myself being a body builder, although I always wanted too. it is a full time job, and requries enormous dedication.
I agree with cycling, so you have to concentrate on 1 thing at a time. If your goal is to lose weight, then make this your first priority, and you will lose certain amount of muscle REGARDLESS of your protein intake.
If your goal is to gain muscle - then you will gain fat as well, no other way around it. Cycling bulking and cutting is what bodybuilders do.
But for those who just need to shed weight on a low carb regimen, watching protein and calories helps.

Powerlifters, I guess they just always bulk? Don't really know.
yes, they always bulking.
We deviated from original topic. it's good to be rich so we can experiment with diets freely.

[ysabella]

It was not criticism, was just trying to help. I have been there, done that. Not sure why you are offended, just thought it will help with more accurate calculations.;)
Oh, no, not offended, it just doesn't belong here in LC Research/Media. And of course it is criticism. I wouldn't say that it wasn't constructive, though.

I do have the BFFM book and like Tom Venuto's thinking. But this is also a low carb forum, so I doubt anyone is protein defficient here :lol:
AFAIK, BFFM is not a low carb plan but rather low fat plan, which however, gives you room to play carbs but not lower than 25% of calories, and protein/requirements are based on LBM.
He does say that it can be done higher fat and lower carb than what the book lays out, that it will work better for some people that way. That's what I'm doing.

[ysabella]

Well, I never considered myself being a body builder, although I always wanted too. it is a full time job, and requries enormous dedication.
As well as certain genetic blessings. I'm certainly not one either, but I think bodybuilders are a good source of information.

I agree with cycling, so you have to concentrate on 1 thing at a time. If your goal is to lose weight, then make this your first priority, and you will lose certain amount of muscle REGARDLESS of your protein intake.
I disagree with you there. What you eat will definitely impact how much muscle you lose while losing fat. Some people just try to lose "weight," others try to minimize muscle loss and aim to lose "fat." It is certain some muscle will be lost, absolutely, but it's worth trying to keep it. The Atkins plan is surely better, in that regard, than a lot of plans.
If your goal is to gain muscle - then you will gain fat as well, no other way around it. Cycling bulking and cutting is what bodybuilders do.
But for those who just need to shed weight on a low carb regimen, watching protein and calories helps.
I think watching calories is important, sure. And not eating a lot of protein at one sitting. But I'm not sure why you're so concerned about too much protein intake. If calories are not too high, and serving sizes not too large, what exactly is the problem?

Taking the diet outlined in this thread, it's not awful - if you can eat more calories than that, you can add food. I would add more protein sources first, myself. Some would add fat, and that's fine, depending on your own needs.

[ProfGumby]

No storage for protein? What do you think muscles are?

If you start excreting protein in your urine: watch your doctor do a Panic Dance.

The look on the doctors face would be a hallmark moment for sure.... :lol:

[Mutant]

Most powerlifters are certainly not fat - there are weight classes and except for the top weight class in whatever federation they lift in, there is a definite incentive for them to be lean - strongest they can be at the lowest weight. Generally, carrying a lot of body fat makes them less competitive, and I dont think I have ever met an uncompetitive powerlifter. For the top unrestricted weight classes there is some interest in having a big belly as it does help get the big weights up with the squat (bracing effect of their belly against their thighs). Powerlifters are tough for the current society to judge their weight as they actually have muscular waists; a blocky strong and functional masculine waist as opposed to the narrow, weak and under-developed feminine waist so much in fashion these days. If a powerlifter is trying to move up a weight class they will bulk in the off-season, gaining a lot of both lean and fat mass, only to lose the fat before the start of the competitve season.

Of course, after my diatribe, like any other thing, there are some powerlifters that could stand to lose a few pounds, and struggle with body fat like many of us. ;)

[ProfGumby]

As for the original article...

The diet has some strong points...omega 3's, protein and veggies...after that it goes in the crapper. IMHO.

Low fat...yadda yadda yadda....

And that milk/weightloss study again....

[ReginaW]

ReginaW, first you said grams/kg, then you had a chart of grams/pound, so I'm getting confused here. I've heard of figuring it by grams of protein per kilogram of total body weight, and by grams per pound of LBM, those are the two I know of.


Both the general recommendation and the chart I posted were to highlight whole body weight to estimate protein requirements...sorry if there was confusion!

[ReginaW]

http://www.libertyzone.com/NSprotein.html
I believe also PP has a good formula of calculating protein requirements per pound of LBM. Excess protein will be also converted into glucose on a low carb diet, and will help to gain weight rather then lose it.


Thanks for the link - as I said, I've almost always heard and read protein requirements expressed by whole body weight targets. And, yes, the Eades' (PP) do indeed have the formula based on LBM with a novel means to estimate LBM in their book - but in the many conversations I've had with Mike, he's talked about protein requirements in the context of body weight...in the book, I guess it differentiates them from others promoting a carbohydrate restricted diet? Who knows?

[ReginaW]

I normally count only complete protein, and this means from animal sources only to assure all 22 aminoacids.

Now, let's do some math, shall we?

Ummm, the snarky reply is because....?

[dina1957]

Ummm, the snarky reply is because....?
When the posted info gets corrected, it means .. sharkly response? I just wanted to clarify the confusion, especially provided the response, which is not sharkly ar all...but implies that OP has no clue on the subject....;)
I'm not sure where you got that from?

[dina1957]

Both the general recommendation and the chart I posted were to highlight whole body weight to estimate protein requirements...sorry if there was confusion!
The confusion came from body weight was in metric system (kg) so the requirements for the protein per body weight in pounds would be in 2.2 times lower or around 0.36g per pound of body weight. Also, since protein suppose to support mostly muscles (as well as hairm, nails and other body functions), makes sense to avoid "feeding" the fat, hence LMB calculation.

[dina1957]

Thanks for the link - as I said, I've almost always heard and read protein requirements expressed by whole body weight targets. And, yes, the Eades' (PP) do indeed have the formula based on LBM with a novel means to estimate LBM in their book - but in the many conversations I've had with Mike, he's talked about protein requirements in the context of body weight...in the book, I guess it differentiates them from others promoting a carbohydrate restricted diet? Who knows?
I think Mike (I guess it's Dr.Eades) did not want just to differentiate from Dr.Atkins, he knew very well that eating more protein than your body needs will stall you. Roughly, 56% of protein is converted into glucose, so the higher you protein intake (with the same amount of carbs) the less weight you will lose, and even though, may put some on. Atkins Fat Fast is exactly to kick in true and deep ketosis, that will result in fat burning.
Interesting, that overeating protein (easy done when carbs are low) on Induction carb level, makes me hungrier than eating moderate high fiber carbs and adequate protein.
It also takes lots of Vitamin B (especially folic acid) for high protein intake to avoid high homocystine; liver and adrenals overlaod to continuously convert ditary protein into glucose to avoid hypoglycemia, and kidney hard work to remove byproducts of protein and fat metabolism.
Sorry, we indeed deviated from the original post, so how do rich ppl get thin in a 1st place...:lol:

[dina1957]

And that milk/weightloss study again....
Actually, eating more calcium works for me just fine, not milk, but plain yougurt and cheese, definite winners. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Diana/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg:yum:

[ProfGumby]

Actually, eating more calcium works for me just fine, not milk, but plain yougurt and cheese, definite winners. file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Diana/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg:yum:
Oh no doubt from me there! I eat more cheese in a typical day than most. Cream cheese and yogurt as well as whey protein are staples in my diet. I just reject the notion that one needs to0 drink milk to gain any benefit from the dairy/weight loss corrolation.

[dina1957]

Oh no doubt from me there! I eat more cheese in a typical day than most. Cream cheese and yogurt as well as whey protein are staples in my diet. I just reject the notion that one needs to0 drink milk to gain any benefit from the dairy/weight loss corrolation.
I am not big milk drinker, never been, always prefer fermented dairy. Watching ppl washing downa humberger or pizza with a carton of milk makes my stomach turn. :eek:

[ReginaW]

When the posted info gets corrected, it means .. sharkly response? I just wanted to clarify the confusion, especially provided the response, which is not sharkly ar all...but implies that OP has no clue on the subject....;)

No, a "correction" is quite welcome when warranted - and your reply wasn't quite a "correction" - LBM a different way to estimate protein requirements and is just as valid as the method of whole body weight....I asked for a link to learn more about LBM estimates, not a math lesson - the math less was the snarkiness that was uncalled for and unnecessary. JMO

[ReginaW]

I think Mike (I guess it's Dr.Eades) did not want just to differentiate from Dr.Atkins, he knew very well that eating more protein than your body needs will stall you.

Perhaps when you've had time to discuss it with him you can then make some assumptions? JMO

[dina1957]

Perhaps when you've had time to discuss it with him you can then make some assumptions? JMO
I woubt Dr.Eades would make time to discuss his book with me.;) My "assumptions" are based on many very good articles and books on ketosis and ketogenic diets I've read.

[dina1957]

....I asked for a link to learn more about LBM estimates, not a math lesson - the math less was the snarkiness that was uncalled for and unnecessary. JMO

You did not ask to provide the link, your response was " I'm not sure where you got that from?" I could not imagine that LBM protein calculation is something you are not familiar with, consider it is your business. If you intentions were sincere, so where mine.:)

[VALEWIS]

It stands to reason that if you overeat protein you are going to likely overconsume calories anyway. To overeat protein one really has to override satiation, because it happens rapidly with
protein, and having some fat with it means that the satiation lasts quite a while. So perhaps the fact that gluconeogenesis happens when in ketosis is less important than the total calories ..sure was true for me anyway once I lost the initial weight. IME, ketosis is not essential whatsoever for weightloss..calories are, and I prefer to keep carbs on the low side because it is healthier.

[dina1957]

It stands to reason that if you overeat protein you are going to likely overconsume calories anyway. To overeat protein one really has to override satiation, because it happens rapidly with
protein, and having some fat with it means that the satiation lasts quite a while. So perhaps the fact that gluconeogenesis happens when in ketosis is less important than the total calories ..sure was true for me anyway once I lost the initial weight. IME, ketosis is not essential whatsoever for weightloss..calories are, and I prefer to keep carbs on the low side because it is healthier.
How it is explains then that some ppl losing weight while consuming 3000 calories? Initially, ketogenic diet does not require calories restriction as much as low fat does, but as weight loss continues, theoretically body requires less and less calories to sustain weight loss, hence the calories counting may come into play at some point.
Gluconeogenesis is converting protein into glucose (making "new" glucose) while ketosis is burning fat for fuel, so both serve their different purposes.
In a nut shell, regardless of the fuel type, some have to count calories to sustain weight loss, while others can lose weight without any calories restriction.
I can lose only if I cut calories, but carb restriction helps to keep hunger away.
JMO

[Angeline]

I woubt Dr.Eades would make time to discuss his book with me.;) My "assumptions" are based on many very good articles and books on ketosis and ketogenic diets I've read.


You'd be surprised how much time Dr Eades takes to answer questions and comments, on his blog web site.

[dina1957]

You'd be surprised how much time Dr Eades takes to answer questions and comments, on his blog web site.
Thanks for the info, I will try.