free radicals (sat fat vs. unsat fat vs. whole food)

[Davide]

I'm quoting montygram:

> Go to usda.gov, I think (I'm not on the computer that has it
> bookmarked), for the searchable database. They give a
> breakdown of all components in common foods, as well as some
> not so common foods. The study I cited makes a good point,
> which is that if what we've been told about how "bad"
> "saturated fats" are, these southeast Asian atoll people
> should be dropping dead of heart attacks like flies, but
> they have almost no heart attacks on their native diets,
> even with high choleterol levels. What is the difference
> between an American who eats chicken and fish and turkey
> instead of pork and beef? Not much in terms of saturated
> fatty acid consumption, relative to peoples who eat coconut
> and palm kernel oil as dietary staples. The evidence, when
> looked at as a whole, points to free radical damage from the
> unsaturated fatty acids,

But if one had to use your same argument then:

"if what you've been telling us about how "bad" unsaturated
fats are, then populations of nuts eaters and fish eaters
should be dropping dead of heart attacks like flies"

Examples like the Kitawans or the Okinawans A study found that
the consumption of unsaturated fats of Okiwanas is very high,
their consumption of EFA is very high and consumption of fish
is 37 times greater than americans' Yet they have one of the
lowest heart disease and oxidative stress rate and the highest
longevity rate world wide

It seems to me that the "whole food" argument contradicts what
you've been saying You seem to claim that unsaturated fats are
bad per se and they're better avoided You say that science
backs this up

But you'll see that science back this up only as long as you
observe the effects of consuming unsaturated fats as
processed, distilled, long-stored and overcooked foods

But sciences doesn't back this up as far as whole foods rich
in unsaturated fats are concerned

In other words massive consumption of nuts, seeds, fish and
fatty foods like olive and avocados have never been shown
to have adverse effects on one's health or to cause
oxidative stress

You said you're trying to avoid all EFA and that EFA are
bad? But why?!

As long as you don't take EFA from processed oils and you just
eat food like fish and nuts (like the Okinawans do) they won't
increase your oxidative stress rate or increase your risk of
heart disease

And as long as one eats greens, fish, nuts in their whole food
state you can't avoid EFA Even eating nothing but lettuce
would provide you the 1-2 g of EFA one is supposed to need

Also I think the problem of oxidization is better treated with
diets high in fruits and vegetables. Many studies showed that
the best way to lower oxidative stress was to increase the
consumption of green, veggies and fruits ...

Davide

[monty1945]

If you have actually read my posts, you would see that I often
say, "in the context of the typical American diet."

This is the key point, because it is a diet very rich in omega
6 PUFAs that have had their antioxidant cover stripped away by
the refining process, then they are heated/exposed to oxygen
again in the way most people use them to cook. It is also a
diet that is usually poor in antioxidant-rich foods.

If you are studying the Okinawan diet, you will need to do a
much better job than the book of that name, which contained
numerous and important errors. Moreover, some oils, such as
sesame, may contain a lot of omega 6s, but also contain
powerful radical neutralizing substances. However, I can't say
that if you go to your local supermarker and buy a bottle of
sesame oil, that is will contain much of these substances at
that point.

Another point has to do with whether one has Mead acid or AA
in one's cells. If you tested the Okinawans and others, as
has been done with other peoples, you would know. Moreover,
studies of the Okinawans now say that the "younger
generations" are not living so long, but it is also said
that they have switched to canola oil. This is consistent
with my claims.

In any case, when you want to take me up on my experimental
offer, you just let me know - it' still open.

We will feed one group of common lab animals a diet of either
30% canola and fish oil or 30% coconut oil of my choice. All
other food will be the same. A basic vitamin/mineral
supplement will be provided, but no extra supplementation (no
antioxidants). The canola and fish oil must come from a
retailer, just as the coconut oil shall.

I am waiting...

[Andrewvecs]

monty1945@lycos.com wrote: On
> my site, I have cited various nutritional experts who have
> pointed this out, as early as the 1980s.
>
Can you give a link to your site please kind regards
andrew vecsey

[Davide]

monty1945@lycos.com ha scritto:

> If you have actually read my posts, you would see that I
> often say, "in the context of the typical American diet."

How fish and nuts become foods to avoid "in the context of the
typical American diet"?

Or let's say I tell you:

"I'm going to eat lot of vegetables and fruits and lot of
salmon and other fatty fish rich in unsaturated fats and lot
of nuts rich in unsaturated fats (like the Okinawans do) and I
think such diet will actually protect me from heart disease
and will decrease my oxidative stress levels"

Do you agree?

Davide