South Batkins anyone?

[Rocks]

I was curious to know if any South Beach folks have had success keeping the full fat dairy in their WOE. I have no problem selecting leaner meats and can easily give up mayonaise, but I use fresh raw milk and have butter and yogurt made from fresh raw milk.

Do you think this will be a problem if I'm somewhat careful about calories?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[MorphingMe]

I truly don't have an answer. I'm curious though is raw milk safe? I thought it had bacteria? I am a bit on the fence about lowfat things. I don't believe it's healthy to fill your body with chemicals so I use butters very sparingly as we have real butter at home. I don't eat yogurt much so I'm not a help there. I use lean cheese and meat. I am not a milk fan but, we keep skim milk in the frig. I hope someone has an answer!

[Judynyc]

While i have not gone totally full fat on the dairy, there are a few things that I now eat that have not been an issue for me.

Greek yogurt and Whipped cream....I admit to using full fat in both.

But I do use reduced fat sour cream and lite mayo.

I also pay close attention to the rung of carbs to add back in as I think that the atkins way of adding them back in is wiser than SBD.

I do not use Low Carb flour products and many on atkins do use it as they see all carbs as created equal and we go by the GI, which goes by the premise that the processing of foods raises the GI.

So I'm with you on the South Batkins Rocks!! I think there are good and bad in both plans and we can learn and use both of them!! :agree: :cool:

[Rocks]

Thanks for the input Judy! I won't be adding any carbquick to my menu as it would be counter productive to my belief in the closer to nature, the better. ;) As for full fat dairy, I don't mind experimenting to find a comfortable WOE fit.

MorphingMe, to answer your question about the safety of raw milk, I have never had a problem with it my entire life. I very much prefer the taste and I have an extremely reliable source. The cows are grass fed and turned out daily to pasture. I know there are concerns from some quarters regarding the safety, but www.realmilk.com shares my view if you'd like to read it.

[Judynyc]

Thanks for the input Judy! I won't be adding any carbquick to my menu as it would be counter productive to my belief in the closer to nature, the better. ;) As for full fat dairy, I don't mind experimenting to find a comfortable WOE fit.

MorphingMe, to answer your question about the safety of raw milk, I have never had a problem with it my entire life. I very much prefer the taste and I have an extremely reliable source. The cows are grass fed and turned out daily to pasture. I know there are concerns from some quarters regarding the safety, but www.realmilk.com shares my view if you'd like to read it.


Rocks also lives in dairy country and gets her raw milk straight from the farm!! Lucky girl!! :cool:

[foxgluvs]

I personally have always used full fat butter and semi skimmed (not fully skimmed) milk, and it seemed to be ok for the main part of my time on SB. However, I now feel that I must cut down on those things in order to carry on losing weight.

I do think it's a suck it and see type thing. If you want to give it a try you have nothing to lose ;)

[FrecklFluf]

I try to be reasonable (lf milk, lf yogurt, lf cottage cheese, sometimes lf sour cream), but you can have my real butter when you take it from my cold, dead hands. :D

[Judynyc]

but you can have my real butter when you take it from my cold, dead hands.

Thats really funny!! :lol: :lol:

[ardentluma]

LOL Freklfluf!!!

I did go on South Batkins on my first week of this WOE. I added more fat and I did lose weight that week. When I removed my fats, I didn't lose anything. Well, since I've added a small piece of fruit a day, I have gained. -Sigh- SO! We live and learn, move on, and I am putting some fat back in. Each body responds differently to different things. I can definately say, South Beach is teaching me more about my body than Atkins ever did.

So I am bidding my low fat cheese good day! I can't stomach it. I am also keeping my butter. We'll see if the weight loss continues.

[Judynyc]

What I think is really key here is to make sure that whatever you are doing is something that you can live with long term. Thats why you will not hear a peep from me if you are eating your dreamy, creamy butter. ;)

Between the 2 plans, I know that we can all have success!!

Pulling from each to make a hybrid may be the difference for many. :idea:

[Rocks]

you have nothing to lose ;)

:lol: Oh yes I do! I have 62 somethings to lose! :lol:

I guess I was looking for a plan that said, "do exactly this" and you'll lose weight. I've since realized that ain't gonna happen. Even on Atkins, I drank coffee. Atkins recommends using Splenda, and any artificial sweetner (except Stevia) stalls me. I don't like eggs, which is a real tragedy since we get free range eggs FREE! The use of franken foods in Atkins, horrifies me. The biggest problem I have with Atkins is watching the carbs in vegetables. I've never met someone that weighed 197 lbs and claims she got that way eating phase one or induction level vegetables!

My first hesitation with South Beach was the low fat dairy. Our milk comes from our own cows. I get yogurt and butter from an Amish neighbor lady who uses raw Guernsey milk (rich in butterfat and protein). My second hesitation was that fish seems to be much more encouraged. I'm not overly fond of fish, but I'm gonna try poaching a salmon and see what happens. I like talapia and flounder...is that allowed?

We raise our own beef and I have a freezer full of ground beef that is so lean, you have to use spray in the pan to brown it. Beef has always been what's for dinner round these parts! I like chicken too, but I don't eat the skin (ewwwwww).

So I'm gonna give this a try my way and pray it works, because I will have found a method that really fits the way I live and a WOE that I could adpat for a lifetime.

[Judynyc]

I'm not overly fond of fish, but I'm gonna try poaching a salmon and see what happens. I like talapia and flounder...is that allowed?

Any fish is allowed Rocks!! And poaching sounds good for the salmon, just be sure that you get wild and not farmed and use lots of spices and veggies when you poach it.

Please take some time and review our updated food lists and meal plan charts.!! Print them up and carry them with you as easy refernce. :idea:

[Camelle217]

:We raise our own beef and I have a freezer full of ground beef that is so lean, you have to use spray in the pan to brown it. Beef has always been what's for dinner round these parts! I like chicken too, but I don't eat the skin (ewwwwww).


EXACTLY the same here.... And being in Nebraska, fish is hard to come by. And never truely "Fresh". I eat more beef than anything else... and it is very very lean. And TASTES SO GOOD!!!!!!!! yum.

[Rocks]

So, Camelle, you know what I'm talking about! :agree:

I have been doing a little research on this salmon critter, and I'm thinking of trying some this weekend. One beef lover to another...I'll let you know what I think. :cool:

[Camelle217]

THANKS! I too have looked at salmon fillets... looked at salmon recipes... but DANG it is hard to spend nearly $9 a pound for a piece of fish, when I can have a NUMMY T-Bone for about $6 or maybe $7 a pound. and I KNOW I'd like, ok LOVE it!!!!!

[Judynyc]

PROTEIN

BEEF
Lean* cuts, such as:
Bottom Round
Eye of Round
Flank Steak
Ground beef:
Extra Lean (96/4)
Lean (92/8)
Sirloin (90/10)
London Broil
Pastrami, lean
Sirloin Steak
T-bone
Tenderloin
Top Loin
Top Round

* Lean meat has, per 100 gram portion, 10 grams or less of total fat and 4.5 grams or less of saturated fat.

POULTRY (SKINLESS)
Cornish hen
Low-fat turkey sausage (3-6 grams of fat per 60 gram serving) can be eaten as an occasional treat (approximately once/week)
Turkey bacon (2 slices per day)
Turkey and chicken breast

SEAFOOD
All types of fish and shellfish
Water-packed tuna and other canned fish
Salmon roe
Sashimi

PORK
Boiled ham
Canadian bacon
Loin
Tenderloin

VEAL
Chop
Cutlet, leg
Top round

LAMB (Remove all visible fat)
Center Cut
Chop
Loin

LUNCHMEAT
Fat-free or low-fat only
Boiled ham
Deli sliced turkey breast
Steamship roast beef
Smoked ham

MEAT SUBSTITUTES (SOY BASED)
Unless otherwise stated, look for products that have 6 grams of fat or less per 2-3 ounce serving
Bacon - Limit to 2 slices per day
Burger
Chicken, unbreaded
Hot Dogs
Sausage Patties and Links - Limit 1 patty or 2 links per day
Seiten
Soy Crumbles - 1/4 cup (2 oz) suggested serving
Soy Nuts - 1/4 cup for a protein snack is suggested serving
Tempeh 1/4 cup suggested serving
Tofu All varieties, 1/2 cup suggested serving
Yuba (Bean Curd or Sheet)

Hiya ladies!! :wave:

This is our list of protein. Fish is one aspect of this plan....not all of it!! One thing that I do think is better than atkins is avoiding processed meats in general. ie: jerky, sausages, salami, bologna, pepperoni, etc. Stick to as close to original/unprocessed as possible. :idea:

One of things that I like about eating fish is that I can have a larger portion and the calories are still low. I am, afterall, a quantity and quality eater!! :lol:

[Tim709]

I agree Judy. I'd love to find something crunchy that I could eat 40 - 50 of in a day ;)

Salmon is on the menu for me tonight actually too lol

[Camelle217]

I know our protein listing is very extensive... I just WISH I could learn to like (not even love) fish. I KNOW it is super good for a person, but I just don't like it at all.... and can't justify spending money on it for a "maybe" on a recipe. you know. For right now, since I have so much to lose, I don't think that eating beef is an issue, I think it might become an issue when i only have a few pounds to lose.... in oh, say Next May or something!

[Rocks]

:lol:

Here is some more interesting math I've done in my quest for truth (my truth). When I use half & half in my coffee, I use one of those small creamer size portions which is 1/2 fl. oz. My coffee turns creamy golden and has a nice rich taste. When I use skim milk, it takes almost 1/4 cup to turn it golden.

1/2 fl. oz half & half = <1 carb ~ 1.7 gram fat ~ 20 calories
!/4 cup skim milk = 3.4 carb ~ <1 gram fat ~ 25 calories
non-fat half & half = 1.35 carb~ <1 gram fat ~ 9 calories

If I drank a lot of coffee, the non-fat half & half would be the best choice by all counts (if the additivies on the label didn't bother me), but I only drink two cups of coffee a day so I'm gonna live with the extra 11 calories and 1.7 grams of fat difference, per cup, between regular and non-fat half & half.

[Absinthe62]

I'm trying to commit to the SoBe way of eating. Most of my eating is classic SoBe, except for my monsterous sugar habit. I just need grit my teeth thru those first few days of detox and I think I'll be OK. I plan on keeping my organic dairy products as is: full-fat cheese and butter, non-fat milk and yogurt. Would like to try the raw dairy, but it's hard to find.

For those who don't care for fish, try grilling it. Grilled salmon is pure heaven, just make sure you get the wild variety and don't overcook it. Farmed fish is evil. Poaching is decent if you use a flavorful poaching liquid. Plain water will wash all the flavor out of the fish.

[Ladibug52]

EXACTLY the same here.... And being in Nebraska, fish is hard to come by. And never truely "Fresh". I eat more beef than anything else... and it is very very lean. And TASTES SO GOOD!!!!!!!! yum.

Hi Camelle and Rocks! :wave:

Another Nebraskan here, and I can agree that it's hard to beat Nebraska Corn-fed beef. As for the raw milk and homemade dairy---I surely wish that I could find some but Nebraska outlawed raw dairy products. We used to get raw milk from my SIL and it was great.

I was still using butter and whole milk products when I lost those 20 lbs. last year. I am low-temp (hard for me to reach 98.6) and I need those fats to maintain the right temperature. The weight may have come off more slowly because of it, but it did come off.

[Judynyc]

Hello all you Hybrids!! :wave:

The following is from the official SBD web site. I thought it would be a good read for you guys.

Good Carbs


Carbohydrates are found in a variety of foods and are an essential form of fuel for the body. During digestion, your body extracts the sugar from carbohydrates and moves it into the bloodstream. The pancreas then secretes a hormone known as insulin to deliver the sugar to cells and organs.

Not all carbs are created equal, though. Depending on their nutritional package, your body digests them at different speeds. Processed carbohydrates such as white bread and many packaged snack foods have been stripped of important nutrients, including fiber. Fiber slows down digestion because your body needs to work to separate it from the sugars it will use as fuel.

Processed carbohydrates, therefore, are digested more quickly by your body, resulting in a rapid rise in blood-sugar levels. Your pancreas detects this and pumps out a correspondingly high level of insulin. That results in a rapid plunge in the blood-sugar level. The insulin ends up doing its job a little too well-the blood-sugar level drops so low that new cravings are created, requiring additional quick carbohydrate fixes. In order to satisfy so many cravings, of course, we take in well beyond the nutrition we require. We overeat, and this leads to more body fat, more spikes in blood sugar, more hunger, and more weight gain — a vicious cycle.

When you eat carbohydrates that are high in fiber and other important nutrients (such as most fruits and vegetables and whole-grain breads and cereals), the sugar is absorbed more slowly. Thus, the rise in blood sugar is gradual, and so is its descent once the insulin begins to do its work. The slow decline in blood sugar translates into less insistent cravings for more carbs later.

But how do you determine what the food you eat will do to your blood-sugar levels? The glycemic index is a good place to start.

In the early 1980s, Dr. David Jenkins led a team of Canadian researchers who devised a scale to measure the rapidity and degree with which a fixed quantity of a food increases your blood sugar. They called it the glycemic index. It lists most carbohydrates, from table sugar, beer, and white bread at one extreme to spinach and lentils at the other.


Good Fats


Fats, too, help slow down digestion, and they're also vital to good health and many of the body's functions. Again, it's a matter of making smart decisions as to the types of fat you eat.

Monounsaturated fats such as olive oil and canola oil are the best choices. Studies show that they can actually reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke. They're also filling and make your food more palatable, which can help with long-term weight control. Polyunsaturated fats such as sesame, sunflower, corn, and peanut oil are also recommended.

Fats to avoid are trans-fatty acids (the hydrogenated and partially hydrogenated oils found in most solid margarine), and saturated fats such as lard, animal fat, and butter, which can increase your bad cholesterol.

Now I'm not saying that you have to give up your butter...heavens forbid!! :lol: What I am suggesting is that you make sure to incorporate some of these good fats too...olive oil, olives, avocado...and all the good fats mentioned above...it doesn't all have to be saturated, does it? :idea:

[ardentluma]

Hello all you Hybrids!! :wave:

The following is from the official SBD web site. I thought it would be a good read for you guys.



Now I'm not saying that you have to give up your butter...heavens forbid!! :lol: What I am suggesting is that you make sure to incorporate some of these good fats too...olive oil, olives, avocado...and all the good fats mentioned above...it doesn't all have to be saturated, does it? :idea:

Actually, the only thing I cook in real butter is fish. I can't believe it's not butter really sucks for cooking IMO. For breakfast today, my brother in law brought over fresh snapper from the gulf of mexico and I cooked it in lemon butter this morning. It was YUMMY! But, when I used to go 100 percent Atkins and off Atkins, I always cooked in veggie oil or butter. Instead, I use canola and olive oil. It tastes better anyways. I was totally missing out all that time!!!! I also love my avacados and eat those to. But, I have killed the low fat dairy. I just can't stomach it at all. (Except yogurt and ricotta cheese, those are good.)

[Rocks]

I use olive oil for sauteed vegetables and in my salad dressing. I use butter on steamed vegetables.

The reason that I prefer butter is that the ingredients are: cream & salt.

The salt is light and is only there to act as a preservative, butter made from raw milk w/salt can be stored for two months in the refrigerator or nine months in the freezer.

Here are the ingredients for the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!" spray:
Water, liquid soybean oil, salt, sweet cream buttermilk, xanthan gum, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, lactic acid (potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, calcium disodium edta) as preservates, artifical flavor, colored with beta carotene, vitamin A (palmitate).

If you check the ingredient list on fat free half & half, the second ingredient is corn syrup.

I would gladly use a fat free product that didn't need soy or corn products and chemicals to reduce the fat content. It may seem a small thing, one little spray of chemicals on your steamed vegetables, but considering the enormous amouts of chemicals we are exposed to everyday, if I can eliminate them, I'll take a naturally occuring fat any day.

In many cases, lowfat cheese uses soy oil. They can't even call it "cheese" they call it "cheese product". In the case of cheese, I use the real cheese, and just limit myself to no more than 2 oz. per day.

It's not that I'm clinging to the fat in dairy produts, I just don't want to exchange my fat for polysorbate 60. :)

[ardentluma]

It's not that I'm clinging to the fat in dairy produts, I just don't want to exchange my fat for polysorbate 60.

I never thought of it that way.

[Judynyc]

I use olive oil for sauteed vegetables and in my salad dressing. I use butter on steamed vegetables.

The reason that I prefer butter is that the ingredients are: cream & salt.

The salt is light and is only there to act as a preservative, butter made from raw milk w/salt can be stored for two months in the refrigerator or nine months in the freezer.

Here are the ingredients for the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!" spray:
Water, liquid soybean oil, salt, sweet cream buttermilk, xanthan gum, soy lecithin, polysorbate 60, lactic acid (potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, calcium disodium edta) as preservates, artifical flavor, colored with beta carotene, vitamin A (palmitate).

If you check the ingredient list on fat free half & half, the second ingredient is corn syrup.

I would gladly use a fat free product that didn't need soy or corn products and chemicals to reduce the fat content. It may seem a small thing, one little spray of chemicals on your steamed vegetables, but considering the enormous amouts of chemicals we are exposed to everyday, if I can eliminate them, I'll take a naturally occuring fat any day.

In many cases, lowfat cheese uses soy oil. They can't even call it "cheese" they call it "cheese product". In the case of cheese, I use the real cheese, and just limit myself to no more than 2 oz. per day.

It's not that I'm clinging to the fat in dairy produts, I just don't want to exchange my fat for polysorbate 60. :)


Hi Rocks!!
I am not teliing you to use chemicals....and am only suggesting that there are other good fats out there besides butter. :idea:

The fat in eggs is good fat!! But you don't eat eggs either!! :p :lol:

I got it that you do not want to put chemicals into your body!! :agree: :cool:

[foxgluvs]

Hello!!!

I just wanted to say (and you've probably already said it Judy but I am feeling like a lazy a$$ and I can't be bothered to read back) but having done BOTH plans for a long time can I just add in one very small word of caution?

I love what you are doing, but the tendancy for 'some' might be to eat atkins (very high fat) and SB (high good carbs) in total combination of the two plans....what I mean is, they might want to eat all the carbs they like and all the fat.....I personally don't think that would work.

The only hybrid in my opinion is to eat minimal animal fats with SB portions of veggies etc....if you think you can go onto south beach and just eat a tub of cream every day then with the best will in the world it aint gonna work ;)

I'm not saying I have got the impression anyone is going to do that, but it needs stating anyway for those who might be venturing onto this thread for the very first time.

Remember, the reason SB works is because it is lower in fat. That's not to say you can't have cream or butter, but remember....minimal portions! :idea:
I have been doing a hybrid of SB without even knowing it ;)
Speak soon guys
xx

[foxgluvs]

Hey folks.....how's the South Batkins going??!

[ardentluma]

Hey Foxy, you got me thinking there.

Remember when I fist started and I was feeling awful so I added more fat in my diet? My experiment was to eat a higher fat in the morning. Like sausage (Nitrate free and sugar free, fresh from the butcher.) and regular cream in my coffee instead of my turkey bacon and FF cream. I felt so much better the whole day eating a higher amount of fat just in the morning and then maintaining a traditional SB phase 1 for the rest of the day save for the occassional dark meat serving of chicken and I lost weight the initial week. Then I cut out the morning fat and and went back a normal phase 1 and I didn't lose anything. No inches or pounds. I also retained a lot of water that week and the TOM had just passed so it wasn't hormonal. It could have been our scorching summer weather.

South BAtkins, in that retrospect, worked for me that week, but I think if I had incorporated more fat, than it might not have.

I will say that I have switched the South BAtkins in a different way. Atkins encourages fat consumption but..I still stave off a certain amount of fats where I can. For instance, I will lighten my coffe with a small amount of heavy cream (a teaspoon max) instead of the usual 2-3 tablespoons of half and half or FF half and half. If I drink coffee in the evening, I drink ff half and half. I don't eat pork bacon, but opt for a turkey variety instead or some other meat like a lean ham that has no sugar. I haven't had any problems.

And I do my cooking with olive oils and canola oils because they taste so much better and are yummy! My butter I use sparingly for fishes and sometimes veggies, though usually my veggies are just peppered. I admit to eating ribs and chicken drummettes sometimes but my meats (since I really don't like those chewy/slimey chunks of grizzle or fat..they make me gag if I happen to get a mouthful of it.) are generally lean. I think if I were doing a totally clean induction with all fat all protein low low carb than I might be losing at a faster rate than I am but I'm losing inches now and dropped pounds last week.

I don't think I have lost any actual pounds this week because of a bloating TOM factor as well as some bowel issues that have finally righted themselves, but I have dropped an inch or close to it this week from my arms and waist.

Time will only tell if this experiment works or not.

****Edit:

I forgot to add this. When I did Atkins I could go for 6 hours of not eating until I got that low blood sugar feeling. (I generally avoided this problem but sometimes time is the enemy!) But with my fat content not so high as it was the first time doing induction, I have found that my blood sugar will lower sooner. About 4 hours max. So I have to keep something small like a stick of cheese or something to hold me over if I can't eat a meal right away.

[foxgluvs]

It's quite interesting reading your findings, thank you for posting this because it's helpful for others who might think about doing similar.

I think that the key is that you can't do two different plans 'together' but you can take elements of plans and mix things up a little to find out what workds for you. I would be interested to see how you get on if you revert back to the first week again and see how you go....you may find that eating in the way tyou did the week you lost weight is the right way to go on for you personally.

Please keep us posted as to how you go with it all :)

[Rocks]

I'm back to the Original Atkins. I gained two pounds in two weeks which in honesty I can't attribute to the combination of the two plans. I was due for TOM the first of August and have not seen him. This could be my first skipped period in the perimenopausal phase of life, and I have no idea what that implies as far as weight gain or loss.
When I switched from Atkins to try South Batkins, I was not losing at 45 carbs per day (which is where I was in the ladder of carb additions), but I wasn't gaining either.
It's just clear as a bell that either: 1. My CCL is 45, or 2. Perimenopause hormones (or lack thereof) are heck on a weight loss program.

I am not a good test subject. :lol: