floresiensis News

[Rich Travs]

two links, subscription required tho

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/fob6.asp

New measurements bolster the 2-year-old claim that fossils of
a half-size human ancestor found on the Indonesian island of
Flores represent a new species, Homo floresiensis.

Comparisons of a partial Flores skeleton with bones of other
human ancestors and modern people weaken recent arguments
that that the island finds come either from Stone Age pygmies
or from another Homo sapiens specimen with a genetic
condition known as microcephaly that hinders brain growth,
concludes a team led by Debbie Argue of the Australian
National University in Canberra. A separate group of
researchers originally found the fossils.

Argue's group compared measurements of the Flores
fossils—which range in age from roughly 12,000 to 90,000
years—with corresponding data on skull and limb bones from
two people with microcephaly who died around 2,000 years ago;
a roughly 4-1/2-foot-tall person previously excavated at a
3,000-to-5,000-year-old Flores site; more than a dozen human
ancestors ranging in age from 1 million to
3.2 million years; and 584 modern humans, including members
of especially short populations.

After considering these comparisons, Argue finds it
"unlikely" that the Flores individual was a human with
microcephaly or a member of any known species of human
ancestors. The Flores skull displays notable anatomical
differences from a pair of human skulls—one unearthed in
Greece and the other in Japan—that exhibit microcephaly, the
researchers say.

The new study will appear in the Journal of Human Evolution.

Curiously, the Flores specimen's relatively short limbs
resemble those of a
4.5-million-year-old human ancestor, Australopithecus garhi,
the team contends. The island species' skull recalls the
shape of nearly 2-million-year-old Homo finds.

Argue's team determined, however, that the H. floresiensis
individual probably did suffer from a type of
microcephaly. ...

Abstract (sortof):

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WJ-
S-4KBD4SS-1&_coverDate=07%2F05%2F2006&_alid=425068680&_rdoc=1-
&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=6886&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000-
050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2c4d1a341ec91e-
a012758b171fa8ffa3

http://tinyurl.com/g2gap

----------------

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/note15.asp

Miniature humans whose prehistoric remains were recently
unearthed on an Indonesian island may have had a genetic
disease known as Laron syndrome.

The 2004 discovery of Homo floresiensis suggested that this
apparently close relative of Homo sapiens may have coexisted
with modern humans as recently as 12,000 years ago. The
most-complete skeleton belonged to a woman who stood about a
meter tall.

But the newfound specimens don't represent a distinct species
at all, contends Zvi Laron of Tel Aviv University in Israel.

Various genetic mutations can produce Laron syndrome, in
which the body is unresponsive to growth hormone. Laron
discovered the disorder in 1966.

Now, he and his team have compared X rays of patients with
Laron syndrome—who in Israel range from 108 to 136
centimeters in height—with data on H. floresiensis. They
found numerous parallels: a pronounced ridge above the eyes,
absence of a particular sinus in the head, and limbs that are
abnormally short in proportion to the trunk.

Laron says that he would need to test DNA samples from the
miniature hominids to prove his hypothesis. But it's
difficult to extract DNA from such old bones. ...

Abstract:

http://www.abstracts2view.com/endo/view.php?nu=ENDO06L_P3-202
Did the Small-Bodied Hominins from Flores (Indonesia) Suffer
from Laron Syndrome? ... Thorough examination of the unique
morphological features of Homo floresiensis shows great
resemblance with adult patients possesing Laron syndrome (LS;
primary GH insensitivity OMIM#262500) (3), to wit: similar
stature (LS height range 95-136
cm); small brain (in LS head circumference is below 2 SD or
more from the norm); similar facial features (short face,
rounded supraorbital rims with pronounced supraorbital
ridges and absent of frontal sinuses); absence of chin
(which is considered part of the characteristic acromicria
typical for GH/IGF-I deficiency); abnormal body proportion
both in regard to upper/lower segment ratio and
upper/lower limb proportion; long bones having a thickened
cortex relative to their length; limited degree of humeral
torsion, among others.

As Homo floresiensis replicates most of the diagnostic
features of Laron syndrome patients, it can be assumed that
the findings from the island of Flores represents a local
highly inbred Homo sapiens (or Homo erectus) population in
whom a mutation for the GH receptor had occurred.

LS has been diagnosed in populations residing or originating
from the Mediterranean, Mid-Eastern and Asian regions and
thus it can be speculated that the syndrome may have its
origins in Flores.

[Rmacfarl]

Rich Travsky wrote:
> two links, subscription required tho
>
> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/fob6.asp

...

> Comparisons of a partial Flores skeleton with bones of
> other human ancestors and modern people weaken recent
> arguments that that the island finds come either from Stone
> Age pygmies or from another Homo sapiens specimen with a
> genetic condition known as microcephaly ...

> Argue's team determined, however, that the H. floresiensis
> individual probably did suffer from a type of microcephaly.

Hmm. It did, and it didn't. That is what we Aussies call
"having a bet each way"...

The second article's very interesting, but I can't help
being suspicious that it's the discoverer of Laron Syndrome
who's doing the diagnosis that Floresiensis was suffering
from the syndrome.

> Abstract:
>
> http://www.abstracts2view.com/endo/view.php?nu=ENDO06L_P3--
> 202 Did the Small-Bodied Hominins from Flores (Indonesia)
> Suffer from Laron Syndrome? ... But the newfound specimens
> don't represent a distinct species at all, contends Zvi
> Laron of Tel Aviv University in Israel.
>
> Various genetic mutations can produce Laron syndrome, in
> which the body is unresponsive to growth hormone. Laron
> discovered the disorder in 1966.
>
> Now, he and his team have compared X rays of patients with
> Laron syndrome-who in Israel range from 108 to 136
> centimeters in height-with data on H. floresiensis. They
> found numerous parallels: a pronounced ridge above the
> eyes, absence of a particular sinus in the head, and limbs
> that are abnormally short in proportion to the trunk.
>
> Laron says that he would need to test DNA samples from the
> miniature hominids to prove his hypothesis. But it's
> difficult to extract DNA from such old bones. ...
>
> Thorough examination of the unique morphological features
> of Homo floresiensis shows great resemblance with adult
> patients possesing Laron syndrome (LS; primary GH
> insensitivity OMIM#262500) (3), to wit: similar stature (LS
> height range 95-136
> cm); small brain (in LS head circumference is below 2 SD or
> more from the norm); similar facial features (short
> face, rounded supraorbital rims with pronounced
> supraorbital ridges and absent of frontal sinuses);
> absence of chin (which is considered part of the
> characteristic acromicria typical for GH/IGF-I
> deficiency); abnormal body proportion both in regard to
> upper/lower segment ratio and upper/lower limb
> proportion; long bones having a thickened cortex
> relative to their length; limited degree of humeral
> torsion, among others.
>
> As Homo floresiensis replicates most of the diagnostic
> features of Laron syndrome patients, it can be assumed that
> the findings from the island of Flores represents a local
> highly inbred Homo sapiens (or Homo erectus) population in
> whom a mutation for the GH receptor had occurred.
>
> LS has been diagnosed in populations residing or
> originating from the Mediterranean, Mid-Eastern and Asian
> regions and thus it can be speculated that the syndrome may
> have its origins in Flores.

Ross Macfarlane

[Deowll]

"Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
news:44BB198D.8BB9BD7C@hotmMOVEail.com...
> two links, subscription required tho
>
> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/fob6.asp
>
> New measurements bolster the 2-year-old claim that fossils
> of a half-size human ancestor found on the Indonesian island
> of Flores represent a new species, Homo floresiensis.
>
> Comparisons of a partial Flores skeleton with bones of other
> human ancestors and modern people weaken recent arguments
> that that the island finds come either from Stone Age
> pygmies or from another Homo sapiens specimen with a genetic
> condition known as microcephaly that hinders brain growth,
> concludes a team led by Debbie Argue of the Australian
> National University in Canberra. A separate group of
> researchers originally found the fossils.
>
> Argue's group compared measurements of the Flores
> fossils-which range in age from roughly 12,000 to 90,000
> years-with corresponding data on skull and limb bones from
> two people with microcephaly who died around 2,000 years
> ago; a roughly 4-1/2-foot-tall person previously excavated
> at a 3,000-to-5,000-year-old Flores site; more than a dozen
> human ancestors ranging in age from 1 million to
> 3.2 million years; and 584 modern humans, including members
> of especially short populations.
>
> After considering these comparisons, Argue finds it
> "unlikely" that the Flores individual was a human with
> microcephaly or a member of any known species of human
> ancestors. The Flores skull displays notable anatomical
> differences from a pair of human skulls-one unearthed in
> Greece and the other in Japan-that exhibit microcephaly, the
> researchers say.
>
> The new study will appear in the Journal of Human Evolution.
>
> Curiously, the Flores specimen's relatively short limbs
> resemble those of a
> 2.5-million-year-old human ancestor, Australopithecus garhi,
> the team contends. The island species' skull recalls the
> shape of nearly 2-million-year-old Homo finds.
>
> Argue's team determined, however, that the H. floresiensis
> individual probably did suffer from a type of
> microcephaly. ...
>
>
> Abstract (sortof):
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6-
> WJS-4KBD4SS-1&_coverDate=07%2F05%2F2006&_alid=425068680&_rd-
> oc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=6886&_sort=d&view=c&_acc-
> t=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2c4d1a-
> 341ec91ea012758b171fa8ffa3
>
> http://tinyurl.com/g2gap
>
> ----------------
>
> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/note15.asp
>
> Miniature humans whose prehistoric remains were recently
> unearthed on an Indonesian island may have had a genetic
> disease known as Laron syndrome.
>
> The 2004 discovery of Homo floresiensis suggested that this
> apparently close relative of Homo sapiens may have coexisted
> with modern humans as recently as 12,000 years ago. The
> most-complete skeleton belonged to a woman who stood about a
> meter tall.
>
> But the newfound specimens don't represent a distinct
> species at all, contends Zvi Laron of Tel Aviv University
> in Israel.
>
> Various genetic mutations can produce Laron syndrome, in
> which the body is unresponsive to growth hormone. Laron
> discovered the disorder in 1966.
>
> Now, he and his team have compared X rays of patients with
> Laron syndrome-who in Israel range from 108 to 136
> centimeters in height-with data on H. floresiensis. They
> found numerous parallels: a pronounced ridge above the eyes,
> absence of a particular sinus in the head, and limbs that
> are abnormally short in proportion to the trunk.
>
> Laron says that he would need to test DNA samples from the
> miniature hominids to prove his hypothesis. But it's
> difficult to extract DNA from such old bones. ...
>
> Abstract:
>
> http://www.abstracts2view.com/endo/view.php?nu=ENDO06L_P3-2-
> 02 Did the Small-Bodied Hominins from Flores (Indonesia)
> Suffer from Laron Syndrome? ... Thorough examination of the
> unique morphological features of Homo floresiensis shows
> great resemblance with adult patients possesing Laron
> syndrome (LS; primary GH insensitivity OMIM#262500) (3), to
> wit: similar stature (LS height range 95-136
> cm); small brain (in LS head circumference is below 2 SD or
> more from the norm); similar facial features (short face,
> rounded supraorbital rims with pronounced supraorbital
> ridges and absent of frontal sinuses); absence of chin
> (which is considered part of the characteristic
> acromicria typical for GH/IGF-I deficiency); abnormal
> body proportion both in regard to upper/lower segment
> ratio and upper/lower limb proportion; long bones having
> a thickened cortex relative to their length; limited
> degree of humeral torsion, among others.
>
> As Homo floresiensis replicates most of the diagnostic
> features of Laron syndrome patients, it can be assumed that
> the findings from the island of Flores represents a local
> highly inbred Homo sapiens (or Homo erectus) population in
> whom a mutation for the GH receptor had occurred.
>
> LS has been diagnosed in populations residing or originating
> from the Mediterranean, Mid-Eastern and Asian regions and
> thus it can be speculated that the syndrome may have its
> origins in Flores.

If these people think that I'm going to buy the idea that a
population of retarded runts not only thrived under very harsh
conditions for many thousands of years they excluded normal
humans from that island for tens of thousands of years they
are the ones with defective brains.

The HF population doesn't seem to have all the features needed
to count for the syndrome.

The people they are talking about aren't able to reproduce so
for as I know. In fact if they have infantile genitals they
can't reproduce which does rather make a population of only
people with this syndrome lasting for thousands of years
rather unlikely. That anyone would suggest such a thing says
volumes about them.

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/2825.html

[Deowll]

"rmacfarl" <rmacfarl@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:1153117315.960601.228060@35g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rich Travsky wrote:
>> two links, subscription required tho
>>
>> http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/fob6.asp
>
> ...
>
>> Comparisons of a partial Flores skeleton with bones of
>> other human ancestors and modern people weaken recent
>> arguments that that the island finds come either from
>> Stone Age pygmies or from another Homo sapiens specimen
>> with a genetic condition known as microcephaly ...
>
>> Argue's team determined, however, that the H. floresiensis
>> individual probably did suffer from a type of
>> microcephaly.
>
> Hmm. It did, and it didn't. That is what we Aussies call
> "having a bet each way"...
>
> The second article's very interesting, but I can't help
> being suspicious that it's the discoverer of Laron Syndrome
> who's doing the diagnosis that Floresiensis was suffering
> from the syndrome.

http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/2825.html

Do a little research and you are going to be a lot more
suspicious.

>
>> Abstract:
>>
>> http://www.abstracts2view.com/endo/view.php?nu=ENDO06L_P3-
>> -202 Did the Small-Bodied Hominins from Flores (Indonesia)
>> Suffer from Laron Syndrome? ... But the newfound specimens
>> don't represent a distinct species at all, contends Zvi
>> Laron of Tel Aviv University in Israel.
>>
>> Various genetic mutations can produce Laron syndrome, in
>> which the body is unresponsive to growth hormone. Laron
>> discovered the disorder in 1966.
>>
>> Now, he and his team have compared X rays of patients with
>> Laron syndrome-who in Israel range from 108 to 136
>> centimeters in height-with data on H. floresiensis. They
>> found numerous parallels: a pronounced ridge above the
>> eyes, absence of a particular sinus in the head, and limbs
>> that are abnormally short in proportion to the trunk.
>>
>> Laron says that he would need to test DNA samples from the
>> miniature hominids to prove his hypothesis. But it's
>> difficult to extract DNA from such old bones. ...
>>
>> Thorough examination of the unique morphological features
>> of Homo floresiensis shows great resemblance with adult
>> patients possesing Laron syndrome (LS; primary GH
>> insensitivity OMIM#262500) (3), to wit: similar stature
>> (LS height range 95-136
>> cm); small brain (in LS head circumference is below 2 SD
>> or more from the norm); similar facial features (short
>> face, rounded supraorbital rims with pronounced
>> supraorbital ridges and absent of frontal sinuses);
>> absence of chin (which is considered part of the
>> characteristic acromicria typical for GH/IGF-I
>> deficiency); abnormal body proportion both in regard to
>> upper/lower segment ratio and upper/lower limb
>> proportion; long bones having a thickened cortex
>> relative to their length; limited degree of humeral
>> torsion, among others.
>>
>> As Homo floresiensis replicates most of the diagnostic
>> features of Laron syndrome patients, it can be assumed
>> that the findings from the island of Flores represents a
>> local highly inbred Homo sapiens (or Homo erectus)
>> population in whom a mutation for the GH receptor had
>> occurred.
>>
>> LS has been diagnosed in populations residing or
>> originating from the Mediterranean, Mid-Eastern and Asian
>> regions and thus it can be speculated that the syndrome
>> may have its origins in Flores.
>
> Ross Macfarlane

[Nickname]

<http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1031>
Laron syndrome: The patients with LS in our cohort vary
greatly in their mental development; from normal intelligence
(one PhD, two MAs) to severe mental retardation. Jewish family
of Yemenite origin (the parents' grandparents were first
cousins). They had five older siblings of normal stature.
Inbred-consanguine Jew-Arab-Yemen families, characteristics:
dwarfism, obesity, and severe hypoglycemia, blue sclerae
(eyewhites), fat at birth, thin boned, small
hands-feet-chin-nose-genitalia-frontal sinuses, protruding
forehead, saddle nose, thick dental enamel, showed more
pronounced striae of Retzins, thin sparse hair, prone to adult
male alopecia. The infants are obese, not by weight, but as
evidenced by skinfold measurements or soft tissue x-ray
because the bones are thin and the muscles underdeveloped. The
motor development is slow, puberty is slow. The children and
even some adult females have a very high-pitched voice (31)
due to a narrow oropharynx (35). Newborns and infants sweat
profusely due to marked hypoglycemia. The narrow oropharynx
(35), leading to constriction of the upper airways, and marked
obesity predispose to sleep apnea. DD

deowll wrote:
> "Rich Travsky" <traRvEsky@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in message
> news:44BB198D.8BB9BD7C@hotmMOVEail.com...
> > two links, subscription required tho
> >
> > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/fob6.asp
> >
> > New measurements bolster the 2-year-old claim that fossils
> > of a half-size human ancestor found on the Indonesian
> > island of Flores represent a new species, Homo
> > floresiensis.
> >
> > Comparisons of a partial Flores skeleton with bones of
> > other human ancestors and modern people weaken recent
> > arguments that that the island finds come either from
> > Stone Age pygmies or from another Homo sapiens specimen
> > with a genetic condition known as microcephaly that
> > hinders brain growth, concludes a team led by Debbie Argue
> > of the Australian National University in Canberra. A
> > separate group of researchers originally found the
> > fossils.
> >
> > Argue's group compared measurements of the Flores
> > fossils-which range in age from roughly 12,000 to 90,000
> > years-with corresponding data on skull and limb bones from
> > two people with microcephaly who died around 2,000 years
> > ago; a roughly 4-1/2-foot-tall person previously excavated
> > at a 3,000-to-5,000-year-old Flores site; more than a
> > dozen human ancestors ranging in age from 1 million to
> > 3.2 million years; and 584 modern humans, including
> > members of especially short populations.
> >
> > After considering these comparisons, Argue finds it
> > "unlikely" that the Flores individual was a human with
> > microcephaly or a member of any known species of human
> > ancestors. The Flores skull displays notable anatomical
> > differences from a pair of human skulls-one unearthed in
> > Greece and the other in Japan-that exhibit microcephaly,
> > the researchers say.
> >
> > The new study will appear in the Journal of Human
> > Evolution.
> >
> > Curiously, the Flores specimen's relatively short limbs
> > resemble those of a
> > 2.5-million-year-old human ancestor, Australopithecus
> > garhi, the team contends. The island species' skull
> > recalls the shape of nearly 2-million-year-old Homo
> > finds.
> >
> > Argue's team determined, however, that the H. floresiensis
> > individual probably did suffer from a type of
> > microcephaly. ...
> >
> >
> > Abstract (sortof):
> >
> > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=-
> > B6WJS-4KBD4SS-1&_coverDate=07%2F05%2F2006&_alid=425068680-
> > &_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_qd=1&_cdi=6886&_sort=d&view=-
> > c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md-
> > 5=2c4d1a341ec91ea012758b171fa8ffa3
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/g2gap
> >
> > ----------------
> >
> > http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060715/note15.asp
> >
> > Miniature humans whose prehistoric remains were recently
> > unearthed on an Indonesian island may have had a genetic
> > disease known as Laron syndrome.
> >
> > The 2004 discovery of Homo floresiensis suggested that
> > this apparently close relative of Homo sapiens may have
> > coexisted with modern humans as recently as 12,000 years
> > ago. The most-complete skeleton belonged to a woman who
> > stood about a meter tall.
> >
> > But the newfound specimens don't represent a distinct
> > species at all, contends Zvi Laron of Tel Aviv University
> > in Israel.
> >
> > Various genetic mutations can produce Laron syndrome, in
> > which the body is unresponsive to growth hormone. Laron
> > discovered the disorder in 1966.
> >
> > Now, he and his team have compared X rays of patients with
> > Laron syndrome-who in Israel range from 108 to 136
> > centimeters in height-with data on H. floresiensis. They
> > found numerous parallels: a pronounced ridge above the
> > eyes, absence of a particular sinus in the head, and limbs
> > that are abnormally short in proportion to the trunk.
> >
> > Laron says that he would need to test DNA samples from the
> > miniature hominids to prove his hypothesis. But it's
> > difficult to extract DNA from such old bones. ...
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
> > http://www.abstracts2view.com/endo/view.php?nu=ENDO06L_P3-
> > -202 Did the Small-Bodied Hominins from Flores (Indonesia)
> > Suffer from Laron Syndrome? ... Thorough examination of
> > the unique morphological features of Homo floresiensis
> > shows great resemblance with adult patients possesing
> > Laron syndrome (LS; primary GH insensitivity OMIM#262500)
> > (3), to wit: similar stature (LS height range 95-136
> > cm); small brain (in LS head circumference is below 2 SD
> > or more from the norm); similar facial features (short
> > face, rounded supraorbital rims with pronounced
> > supraorbital ridges and absent of frontal sinuses);
> > absence of chin (which is considered part of the
> > characteristic acromicria typical for GH/IGF-I
> > deficiency); abnormal body proportion both in regard to
> > upper/lower segment ratio and upper/lower limb
> > proportion; long bones having a thickened cortex
> > relative to their length; limited degree of humeral
> > torsion, among others.
> >
> > As Homo floresiensis replicates most of the diagnostic
> > features of Laron syndrome patients, it can be assumed
> > that the findings from the island of Flores represents a
> > local highly inbred Homo sapiens (or Homo erectus)
> > population in whom a mutation for the GH receptor had
> > occurred.
> >
> > LS has been diagnosed in populations residing or
> > originating from the Mediterranean, Mid-Eastern and Asian
> > regions and thus it can be speculated that the syndrome
> > may have its origins in Flores.
>
> If these people think that I'm going to buy the idea that a
> population of retarded runts not only thrived under very
> harsh conditions for many thousands of years they excluded
> normal humans from that island for tens of thousands of
> years they are the ones with defective brains.
>
> The HF population doesn't seem to have all the features
> needed to count for the syndrome.
>
> The people they are talking about aren't able to reproduce
> so for as I know. In fact if they have infantile genitals
> they can't reproduce which does rather make a population of
> only people with this syndrome lasting for thousands of
> years rather unlikely. That anyone would suggest such a
> thing says volumes about them.
>
>
> http://www.whonamedit.com/synd.cfm/2825.html

[Day Brown]

Well, wouldnt you expect a lotta freaks in a small inbred
gene pool?

[Deowll]

"Day Brown" <daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:6_4vg.50$uk.132226@news.sisna.com...
> Well, wouldnt you expect a lotta freaks in a small inbred
> gene pool?

These would die without issue. The population seems to have
been basicly unchanged from 90,000 to 12,000 BP. They managed
to exclude normals from the island even though best data says
normals where in the region from at least 40,000 BP. Tough
bunch of freaks to kick Homo sapians butt for that long.