"Omega 3s in the brain, he says, could provide more evidence that human beings were, for a while, se

[Marc Verha]

Mass Medication With Omega 3 Would Wipe Out Global Fish Stocks
George Monbiot The Guardian 20 June 2006
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/062106HB.shtml Our children
need their fatty acids, but after we have fed our stocks to
cattle and pigs there simply aren't enough left. The more it
is tested, the more compelling the hypothesis becomes.
Dyslexia, ADHD, dyspraxia and other neurological problems seem
to be associated with a deficiency of Omega 3 fatty acids,
especially in the womb. The evidence of a link with
depression, chronic fatigue syndrome and dementia is less
clear, but still suggestive. None of these conditions is
caused exclusively by a lack of these chemicals, or can be
entirely remedied by their application, but it's becoming
pretty obvious that some of our most persistent modern
diseases are, at least in part, diseases of deficiency. Last
year, for example, researchers at Oxford published a study of
117 children suffering from dyspraxia. Dyspraxia causes
learning difficulties, disruptive behaviour and social
problems. It affects about 5% of children. Some of the
children were given supplements of Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty
acids, others were given placebos. The results were
extraordinary: in three months the reading age of the
experimental group rose by an average of 9.5 months, while the
reading age of those given placebos rose by 3.3. Other studies
have shown major improvements in attention, behaviour and IQ.
This shouldn't surprise us. During the Palaeolithic era,
humans ate roughly the same amount of Omega 3 fatty acids as
Omega 6s. Today we eat 17 times as much Omega 6 as Omega 3.
Omega 6s are found in vegetable oils, while most of the Omega
3s we eat come from fish. John Stein, a professor of
physiology at Oxford who specialises in dyslexia, believes
that fish oils permitted humans to make their great cognitive
leap forwards. The concentration of Omega 3s in the brain, he
says, could provide more evidence that human beings were, for
a while, semi-aquatic. Stein believes that when the cells that
are partly responsible for visual perception - the
magnocellular neurones - are deficient in Omega 3s, they don't
form as many connections with other cells, and don't pass on
information as efficiently. Their impaired development
explains, for example, why many dyslexic children find that
letters appear to jump around on the page. So at first sight
the government's investigation into the idea of giving fish
oil capsules to schoolchildren seems sensible. The food
standards agency is conducting a review of the effects of
Omega 3s on behaviour and performance in school. Alan Johnson,
the secretary of state for education, is taking an interest.
Given the accumulating weight of evidence, it would be
surprising if he does not decide to go ahead. Already
companies such as St Ivel and Marks & Spencer are selling
foods laced with Omega 3s. There is only one problem: there
are not enough fish. In March an article in the British
Medical Journal observed: "We are faced with a paradox. Health
recommendations advise increased consumption of oily fish and
fish oils within limits, on the grounds that intake is
generally low. However ... we probably do not have a
sustainable supply of long-chain Omega 3 fats." Our brain food
is disappearing. If you want to know why, read Charles
Clover's beautifully written book The End of the Line. Clover
travelled all over the world, learning how the grotesque
mismanagement of fish stocks has spread like an infectious
disease. Governments help their fishermen wipe out local
shoals, then pay them to build bigger and more powerful boats
so they can go further afield. When they have cleaned up their
own continental shelves, they are paid by taxpayers to destroy
other people's stocks. The European Union, for example, has
bought our pampered fishermen the right to steal protein from
the malnourished people of Senegal and Angola. West African
stocks are now going the same way as North Sea cod and
Mediterranean tuna. I first realised just how mad our fishing
policies have become when playing a game of ultimate frisbee
in my local park. Taking a long dive, I landed with my nose in
the grass. It smelt of fish. To the astonishment of passersby,
I crawled across the lawns, sniffing them. The whole park had
been fertilised with fishmeal. Fish are used to feed cattle,
pigs, poultry and other fish - in the farms now proliferating
all over the world. Those rearing salmon, cod and tuna, for
example, produce about half as much fish as they consume.
Until 1996, when public outrage brought the practice to halt,
a power station in Denmark was running on fish oil. Now I have
discovered that the US department of energy is subsidising the
conversion of fish oil into biodiesel, through its "regional
biomass energy programme". It hopes that fish will be used to
provide electricity and heating to homes in Alaska. It
describes them as "a sustainable energy supply". Three years
after Ransom Myers and Boris Worm published their seminal
study in Nature, showing that global stocks of predatory fish
have declined by 90%, nothing has changed. The fish stall in
my local market still sells steaks from the ocean's
charismatic megafauna: swordfish, sharks and tuna, despite the
fact that their conservation status is now, in many cases,
similar to that of the Siberian tiger. Even the Guardian's
Weekend magazine publishes recipes for endangered species.
Yesterday, the European Fisheries Council reversed the only
sensible policy it has ever introduced. Having dropped them in
2002, it has decided to reinstate subsidies for new boat
engines. Once again we will be paying billions to support
overfishing. Franco rose to power with the help of the whalers
and industrial fishermen of his native Galicia. Somehow the
old fascists in Vigo - the centre of the European industry's
power - still seem to exercise an extraordinary degree of
control. If fish stocks were allowed to recover and fishing
policies reflected scientific advice, there might just about
be enough to go round. To introduce mass medication with fish
oil under current circumstances could be a recipe for the
complete collapse of global stocks. Yet somehow we have to
prevent many thousands of lives from being ruined by what
appears to be a growing problem of malnutrition. Some plants -
such as flax and hemp - contain Omega 3 oils, but not the
long-chain varieties our cell membranes need. Only some people
can convert them, and even then slowly and inefficiently. But
a few weeks ago, a Swiss company called Eau+ published a press
release claiming that it has been farming "a secret strain of
algae called V-Pure" that produces the right kind of fatty
acids. It says it's on the verge of commercialising a
supplement. As the claims and the terrible names put me in
mind of the slushiest kind of New Age therapy, I was, at
first, suspicious. So I went to see Professor Stein to ask him
whether it was likely to be true. He could be said to have a
countervailing interest: his brother is the fish chef Rick
Stein. But he had met the company's founder the day before,
and was impressed. The oils produced by some species of algae,
he told me, are chemically identical to those found in fish:
in fact this is where the fish get them from. "I think they're
fairly optimistic about the timescale. But there is no
theoretical impediment. I haven't yet seen his evidence, but I
formed a very strong impression that he is an honest man." He
had better be, and his project had better work. Otherwise the
human race is destined to take a great cognitive leap
backwards.
________

Homo littoral diaspora: Aquatic Ape Theory is an inaccurate
term: it's not about apes, nor about having been aquatic. AAT
states that our ancestors sometime after the Homo/Pan split
relied partly on aquatic resources:
- Homo: AAT, contrary to what many PAs think, has nothing to
do with australopiths,
- littoral: it's about our ancestors having been shoreline
dwellers (coast/lake/river-side),
- diaspora: Homo remains 1.8 Ma are found in places as far as
Ain Hanech (Algeria), Dmanisi (Georgia), Mojokerto (Java)
etc.: AAT simply says that these people got there along
shorelines, not over dry plains. Leading PAs such as
Ph.Tobias http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm &
Chr.Stringer now agree with a "wet" past & shoreline
dispersals http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

[Day Brown]

Thanx for such an informative post Marc.

I was born on a farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes);
growing up, we'd take the tractor to a pond and come home 4
hours later with well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish.
Considering how oily they tasted, I expect they have a
lotta Omega-3.

Then, later on, when I was unemployed, I went fishing and
brought home fish to feed my own kids. Everyone had frozen
fish in the freezer given by one fisherman or another. It was
a glut on the market.

Wisconsin and Michigan have similar conditions with thousand
of lakes; its hard to find a place more than ten miles away
from one. Never mind the Great lakes, which were still clean
at the time.

Regarding nutrition, we fed the horses oats cause we wanted
strong smart horses. We fed the pigs corn, cause we wanted fat
stupid pigs. If I wanted fat stupid kids, I'd raise them on
soulfood or Mexican. I never even *saw* a plate of grits til I
went south.

So- what kind of population did that produce? How many corrupt
presidents from these states? How many honest campaigners from
these states who were unwilling to lie to get elected? How
many Nobel Laureates do we see from areas where the kids were
raised on oats and fish, and how many from regions where they
were raised on corn and ham?

Why are so many Bible thumping nitwit colleges in the south,
and so many progressive universities like that of MN, WI, & MI
in the lake region? Which academic institutions produce the
innovative minds that help keep the US in the global market?

Likewise, look at Europe. Why is there so much innovation from
the Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats, compared
to the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on pasta? Which
region was fished out first?

[Marc Verha]

Mass Medication With Omega 3 Would Wipe Out Global Fish Stocks
George Monbiot The Guardian 20 June 2006
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/062106HB.shtml
_______

"Day Brown" <daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:A5hug.104$8N3.18451@news.sisna.com...
> Thanx for such an informative post Marc. I was born on a
> farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes); growing up, we'd
> take the tractor to a pond and come home 4 hours later with
> well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish. Considering how
> oily they tasted, I expect they have a lotta Omega-3.

Yes, a lot, altough less generally than salt water fishes
(eg, tables in on pp.158-9 in Stephen Cunnane 2005 "Survival
of the fattest - the key to human brain evolution" World
Scientific NY).
>
> Then, later on, when I was unemployed, I went fishing and
> brought home fish to feed my own kids. Everyone had frozen
> fish in the freezer given by one fisherman or another. It
> was a glut on the market. Wisconsin and Michigan have
> similar conditions with thousand of lakes; its hard to find
> a place more than ten miles away from one. Never mind the
> Great lakes, which were still clean at the time. Regarding
> nutrition, we fed the horses oats cause we wanted strong
> smart horses. We fed the pigs corn, cause we wanted fat
> stupid pigs. If I wanted fat stupid kids, I'd raise them on
> soulfood or Mexican. I never even *saw* a plate of grits til
> I went south. So- what kind of population did that produce?
> How many corrupt presidents from these states? How many
> honest campaigners from these states who were unwilling to
> lie to get elected? How many Nobel Laureates do we see from
> areas where the kids were raised on oats and fish, and how
> many from regions where they were raised on corn and ham?
> Why are so many Bible thumping nitwit colleges in the south,
> and so many progressive universities like that of MN, WI, &
> MI in the lake region? Which academic institutions produce
> the innovative minds that help keep the US in the global
> market? Likewise, look at Europe. Why is there so much
> innovation from the Baltic & North sea nations where they
> grow oats, compared to the Mediterranean where everyone
> grows up on pasta? Which region was fished out first?

I think you generalise too much, Day, eg, most Med.populations
eat a lot of seafood.

--Marc Verhaegen
http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~mvaneech/outthere.htm

http://users.ugent.be/~mvaneech/Fil/Verhaegen_Human_Evolution-
.html http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT

[Day Brown]

Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> Mass Medication With Omega 3 Would Wipe Out Global
> Fish Stocks

>>Thanx for such an informative post Marc. I was born on a
>>farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes); growing up, we'd
>>take the tractor to a pond and come home 4 hours later with
>>well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish. Considering how
>>oily they tasted, I expect they have a lotta Omega-3.
>
>
> Yes, a lot, altough less generally than salt water fishes
> (eg, tables in on pp.158-9 in Stephen Cunnane 2005 "Survival
> of the fattest - the key to human brain evolution" World
> Scientific NY). Why is there so much innovation from the
>>Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats, compared to
>>the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on pasta? Which
>>region was fished out first?
>
>
> I think you generalise too much, Day, eg, most
> Med.populations eat a lot of seafood.
Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...

[Nickname]

Day Brown wrote:
> Marc Verhaegen wrote:
> > Mass Medication With Omega 3 Would Wipe Out Global Fish
> > Stocks
>
> >>Thanx for such an informative post Marc. I was born on a
> >>farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes); growing up, we'd
> >>take the tractor to a pond and come home 4 hours later
> >>with well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish. Considering
> >>how oily they tasted, I expect they have a lotta Omega-3.
> >
> >
> > Yes, a lot, altough less generally than salt water fishes
> > (eg, tables in on pp.158-9 in Stephen Cunnane 2005
> > "Survival of the fattest - the key to human brain
> > evolution" World Scientific NY). Why is there so much
> > innovation from the
> >>Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats, compared
> >>to the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on pasta?
> >>Which region was fished out first?
> >
> >
> > I think you generalise too much, Day, eg, most
> > Med.populations eat a lot of seafood.
> Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...

Pasta, corn, oats are all relatively modern foods, maybe go
back 20ka, specialized agriculture, I guess traced by presence
of grinding stones and metates, though the stones were used
for ochre and other stuff earlier. Before that, shorefoods,
fruits, cattails, nuts, larvae, roots, medium & small game,
shrooms, aquatics, occasional large game, very mixed diet I'd
think. That is real synergy, considering our omnivorous
digestive system. Oats and fish would be too limited, gotta
have the variety, one thing that shores provide. DD

[Day Brown]

nickname wrote:
>>Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...
>
>
> Pasta, corn, oats are all relatively modern foods, maybe go
> back 20ka, specialized agriculture, I guess traced by
> presence of grinding stones and metates, though the stones
> were used for ochre and other stuff earlier. Before that,
> shorefoods, fruits, cattails, nuts, larvae, roots, medium &
> small game, shrooms, aquatics, occasional large game, very
> mixed diet I'd think. That is real synergy, considering our
> omnivorous digestive system. Oats and fish would be too
> limited, gotta have the variety, one thing that shores
> provide. DD
>
Oh yeah, good point. But I didnt mean that it was limited to
fish & oats. I was born on a farm about 40 miles south of Lake
Wobegon MN, and we all had large gardens.

When I was a kid, I usta wonder why farmers in the south were
so poor with such long growing seasons. But I didnt understand
how much richer the soil was, or that the winters that froze
the ground 5 foot deep killed bugs that eat southern gardens
to the ground. Soulfood and Mexican cuisine has way too much
corn, and not nearly enough of everything else.

Part of the mass insanity today is from nutritional deficit.
Hominid bone middens show over 100 wild plants & animals in
the diet. The bog bodies often had stomach contents preserved
too, and show the same variety from which we now know there is
a supply of trace minerals like zinc, copper, iron,
manganese... needed for proper mental development.

Every faggot I asked says he was raised on sugared cereal.

[Aardvark J]

"Day Brown" <daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote in message
news:E2ivg.235$8j.60476@news.sisna.com...
> nickname wrote:
>>>Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...

>
> When I was a kid, I usta wonder why farmers in the south
> were so poor with such long growing seasons. But I didnt
> understand how much richer the soil was, or that the
> winters that froze the ground 5 foot deep killed bugs that
> eat southern gardens to the ground. Soulfood and Mexican
> cuisine has way too much corn, and not nearly enough of
> everything else.
>

Talk about confusing correlation with causation.

[richardpar]

Aardvark J. Bandersnatch wrote:
> "Day Brown" <daybrown@wildblue.net> wrote in message
> news:E2ivg.235$8j.60476@news.sisna.com...
> > nickname wrote:
> >>>Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...
>
> >
> > When I was a kid, I usta wonder why farmers in the south
> > were so poor with such long growing seasons. But I didnt
> > understand how much richer the soil was, or that the
> > winters that froze the ground 5 foot deep killed bugs that
> > eat southern gardens to the ground. Soulfood and Mexican
> > cuisine has way too much corn, and not nearly enough of
> > everything else.
> >
>
> Talk about confusing correlation with causation.

Long, long ago, in the days when there were still fish in the
North Sea, I worked in a Scottish hotel kitchen, where part
of the job was to split herrings using your thumb. Some of
them went to the smokehouse to make kippers, but others were
rolled in oatmeal and fried fresh. Great synergy, but
shredded thumbs.

I'm still interested in food, hence my website:
http://www.coconutstudio.com/

[Nickname]

Day Brown wrote:
> nickname wrote:
> >>Yeah, but they dont have the oats. There is a synergy...
> >
> >
> > Pasta, corn, oats are all relatively modern foods, maybe
> > go back 20ka, specialized agriculture, I guess traced by
> > presence of grinding stones and metates, though the stones
> > were used for ochre and other stuff earlier. Before that,
> > shorefoods, fruits, cattails, nuts, larvae, roots, medium
> > & small game, shrooms, aquatics, occasional large game,
> > very mixed diet I'd think. That is real synergy,
> > considering our omnivorous digestive system. Oats and fish
> > would be too limited, gotta have the variety, one thing
> > that shores provide. DD
> >
> Oh yeah, good point. But I didnt mean that it was limited to
> fish & oats. I was born on a farm about 40 miles south of
> Lake Wobegon MN, and we all had large gardens.
>
> When I was a kid, I usta wonder why farmers in the south
> were so poor with such long growing seasons. But I didnt
> understand how much richer the soil was, or that the
> winters that froze the ground 5 foot deep killed bugs that
> eat southern gardens to the ground. Soulfood and Mexican
> cuisine has way too much corn, and not nearly enough of
> everything else.

Corn diet is modern, after teosinte got genetically "improved"
a few thousand years ago.

Northern regions (MN) got scraped by glaciers, lost the
topsoil, just lots of rock with thin topsoil and forest, most
of the north lost it's earthworms, so the ecosystem evolved
plants that could live without them, and fungi and ants and
beetles that did some of the worm's work. Now the southern
worms have been reinvading the northern regions, so the
ecology is changing (ignoring the massive changes by modern
man), different plants affiliated with earthworms are taking
over from the former ones.

And no, Coca Cola and Cocoa Puffs do not provide nutrition.
Orangs eat dirt to add mineral nutrients to their diet,
gorillas eat rotting wood for the salt, humans take pills. DD

>
> Part of the mass insanity today is from nutritional deficit.
> Hominid bone middens show over 100 wild plants & animals in
> the diet. The bog bodies often had stomach contents
> preserved too, and show the same variety from which we now
> know there is a supply of trace minerals like zinc, copper,
> iron, manganese... needed for proper mental development.
>
> Every faggot I asked says he was raised on sugared cereal.

[Day Brown]

nickname wrote:
> Northern regions (MN) got scraped by glaciers, lost the
> topsoil, just lots of rock with thin topsoil and forest,
> most of the north lost it's earthworms, so the ecosystem
> evolved plants that could live without them, and fungi and
> ants and beetles that did some of the worm's work. Now the
> southern worms have been reinvading the northern regions, so
> the ecology is changing (ignoring the massive changes by
> modern man), different plants affiliated with earthworms are
> taking over from the former ones.

Agreed, but the glaciers didnt penetrate to *southern*
Minnesota nearly as much or recently enough. I remember
digging an outhouse, going down 5 foot thru 3 foot of black
loam to the layer of clay. Not a single rock. but North of
Minneapolis, rocks are all over, and by the time you get up to
the arrowhead region, there are moraine ridges everywhere and
hardly any topsoil.

While I dont remember earthworms in the fields, I do recall
digging them for fishing in 1950, behind the barn, or other
places which were somewhat sheltered and leaves would pile up
so that the ground would not freeze so deep.

[richardpar]

Day Brown wrote:
> nickname wrote:
> > Northern regions (MN) got scraped by glaciers, lost the
> > topsoil, just lots of rock with thin topsoil and forest,
> > most of the north lost it's earthworms, so the ecosystem
> > evolved plants that could live without them, and fungi and
> > ants and beetles that did some of the worm's work. Now the
> > southern worms have been reinvading the northern regions,
> > so the ecology is changing (ignoring the massive changes
> > by modern man), different plants affiliated with
> > earthworms are taking over from the former ones.
>
> Agreed, but the glaciers didnt penetrate to *southern*
> Minnesota nearly as much or recently enough. I remember
> digging an outhouse, going down 5 foot thru 3 foot of black
> loam to the layer of clay. Not a single rock. but North of
> Minneapolis, rocks are all over, and by the time you get up
> to the arrowhead region, there are moraine ridges everywhere
> and hardly any topsoil.
>
> While I dont remember earthworms in the fields, I do recall
> digging them for fishing in 1950, behind the barn, or other
> places which were somewhat sheltered and leaves would pile
> up so that the ground would not freeze so deep.

Day Brown - "There was a small book published in the early
1900s, The Specialist, which was just earthy enough to be a
hugely popular "underground" success, and just tactfully
worded enough to not risk being banned. Its entire premise
centered on sales of outhouses, touting the advantages of one
kind or another, and labeling them in "technical" terms such
as "one-holers", "two-holers", etc. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outhouse

I'm not at all sure if there's something similar about
Minnesotan glaciers or earthworms.

Darwin wrote a great deal about earthworms, but he was a real
scientist, so I've no idea if you can find anything about his
thoughts on the internet.

regards

Richard

[Rich Travs]

Day Brown wrote:
>
> Thanx for such an informative post Marc.
>
> I was born on a farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes);
> growing up, we'd take the tractor to a pond and come home 4
> hours later with well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish.
> Considering how oily they tasted, I expect they have a lotta
> Omega-3.
>
> Then, later on, when I was unemployed, I went fishing and
> brought home fish to feed my own kids. Everyone had frozen
> fish in the freezer given by one fisherman or another. It
> was a glut on the market.
>
> Wisconsin and Michigan have similar conditions with thousand
> of lakes; its hard to find a place more than ten miles away
> from one. Never mind the Great lakes, which were still clean
> at the time.

The point of this travelogue?

> Regarding nutrition, we fed the horses oats cause we wanted
> strong smart horses. We fed the pigs corn, cause we wanted
> fat stupid pigs. If I wanted fat stupid kids, I'd raise them
> on soulfood or Mexican. I never

That's pretty racist.

> even *saw* a plate of grits til I went south.
>
> So- what kind of population did that produce? How many
> corrupt presidents from these states? How many honest
> campaigners from these states who were unwilling to lie to
> get elected? How many Nobel Laureates do we see from areas
> where the kids were raised on oats and fish, and how many
> from regions where they were raised on corn and ham?
>
> Why are so many Bible thumping nitwit colleges in the
> south, and so many progressive universities like that of
> MN, WI, & MI in the lake region? Which academic
> institutions produce the innovative minds that help keep
> the US in the global market?

Non sequitur. Big time. Lots of fishing places in the south.
Capitalism and the food industry produce a pretty uniform set
of food selections...

> Likewise, look at Europe. Why is there so much innovation
> from the Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats,
> compared to the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on
> pasta? Which region was fished out first?

I don't see the point of this. They grow oats in Italy and
wheat in the Baltic states.

[Day Brown]

Rich Travsky wrote:
> Day Brown wrote:
>
>>Thanx for such an informative post Marc.
>>
>>I was born on a farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes);
>>growing up, we'd take the tractor to a pond and come home 4
>>hours later with well over 20 pounds of fresh water fish.
>>Considering how oily they tasted, I expect they have a lotta
>>Omega-3.
>>
>>Then, later on, when I was unemployed, I went fishing and
>>brought home fish to feed my own kids. Everyone had frozen
>>fish in the freezer given by one fisherman or another. It
>>was a glut on the market.
>>
>>Wisconsin and Michigan have similar conditions with thousand
>>of lakes; its hard to find a place more than ten miles away
>>from one. Never mind the Great lakes, which were still clean
>>at the time.
>
>
> The point of this travelogue?
>
>
>>Regarding nutrition, we fed the horses oats cause we wanted
>>strong smart horses. We fed the pigs corn, cause we wanted
>>fat stupid pigs. If I wanted fat stupid kids, I'd raise them
>>on soulfood or Mexican. I never
>
>
> That's pretty racist.
>
>
>>even *saw* a plate of grits til I went south.
>>
>>So- what kind of population did that produce? How many
>>corrupt presidents from these states? How many honest
>>campaigners from these states who were unwilling to lie to
>>get elected? How many Nobel Laureates do we see from areas
>>where the kids were raised on oats and fish, and how many
>>from regions where they were raised on corn and ham?
>>
>>Why are so many Bible thumping nitwit colleges in the
>>south, and so many progressive universities like that of
>>MN, WI, & MI in the lake region? Which academic
>>institutions produce the innovative minds that help keep
>>the US in the global market?
>
>
> Non sequitur. Big time. Lots of fishing places in the south.
> Capitalism and the food industry produce a pretty uniform
> set of food selections...
>
>
>>Likewise, look at Europe. Why is there so much innovation
>>from the Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats,
>>compared to the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on
>>pasta? Which region was fished out first?
>
>
> I don't see the point of this. They grow oats in Italy and
> wheat in the Baltic states.
Ok. what they grow, and what is culturally common in the diet
is the point. Is that not obvious? Italy is *pasta*. from
*white* flour. Soul food and Mexican food is *corn*. do the
nutritional comparison with oats. Then look at the efficiency
of government, the number of honest and hardworking liberal
politicians of the North compared to the corrupt way things
have been done in the south. be it Italy, or Texas.

Its not that there are no fish in the south, its that there
was not nearly as much. MN is the "land of 10,000" lakes. WI &
MI similar. we went fishing all the time, everyone had it in
the freezer. Up there, for several months of the year, you
didnt even need a freezer; the back porch would do.

[Day Brown]

richardparker01@yahoo.com wrote:
> Day Brown wrote:
>
>>nickname wrote:
>>
>>>Northern regions (MN) got scraped by glaciers, lost the
>>>topsoil, just lots of rock with thin topsoil and forest,
>>>most of the north lost it's earthworms, so the ecosystem
>>>evolved plants that could live without them, and fungi and
>>>ants and beetles that did some of the worm's work. Now the
>>>southern worms have been reinvading the northern regions,
>>>so the ecology is changing (ignoring the massive changes by
>>>modern man), different plants affiliated with earthworms
>>>are taking over from the former ones.
>>
>>Agreed, but the glaciers didnt penetrate to *southern*
>>Minnesota nearly as much or recently enough. I remember
>>digging an outhouse, going down 5 foot thru 3 foot of black
>>loam to the layer of clay. Not a single rock. but North of
>>Minneapolis, rocks are all over, and by the time you get up
>>to the arrowhead region, there are moraine ridges everywhere
>>and hardly any topsoil.
>>
>>While I dont remember earthworms in the fields, I do recall
>>digging them for fishing in 1950, behind the barn, or other
>>places which were somewhat sheltered and leaves would pile
>>up so that the ground would not freeze so deep.
>
>
> Day Brown - "There was a small book published in the early
> 1900s, The Specialist, which was just earthy enough to be a
> hugely popular "underground" success, and just tactfully
> worded enough to not risk being banned. Its entire premise
> centered on sales of outhouses, touting the advantages of
> one kind or another, and labeling them in "technical" terms
> such as "one-holers", "two-holers", etc. See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outhouse
I mostly saw, and used, 4 holers. Cultural values have
changed.
>
> I'm not at all sure if there's something similar about
> Minnesotan glaciers or earthworms.
>
> Darwin wrote a great deal about earthworms, but he was a
> real scientist, so I've no idea if you can find anything
> about his thoughts on the internet.

Some of those I know are health professionals. There is lots
debate about maximizing mental development, but little about
the more obvious effect of deficits and contaminants. When
things screw up, you can do a case history on the kid. And
when you get enough case histories, do a statistical analysis
to reveal interactions.

[Rich Travs]

Day Brown wrote:
>
> Rich Travsky wrote:
> > Day Brown wrote:
> >>Thanx for such an informative post Marc.
> >>
> >>I was born on a farm in Minnesota (land of 10,000 lakes);
> >>growing up, we'd take the tractor to a pond and come home
> >>4 hours later with well over 20 pounds of fresh water
> >>fish. Considering how oily they tasted, I expect they have
> >>a lotta Omega-3.
> >>
> >>Then, later on, when I was unemployed, I went fishing and
> >>brought home fish to feed my own kids. Everyone had frozen
> >>fish in the freezer given by one fisherman or another. It
> >>was a glut on the market.
> >>
> >>Wisconsin and Michigan have similar conditions with
> >>thousand of lakes; its hard to find a place more than ten
> >>miles away from one. Never mind the Great lakes, which
> >>were still clean at the time.
> >
> > The point of this travelogue?
> >
> >>Regarding nutrition, we fed the horses oats cause we
> >>wanted strong smart horses. We fed the pigs corn, cause we
> >>wanted fat stupid pigs. If I wanted fat stupid kids, I'd
> >>raise them on soulfood or Mexican. I never
> >
> >
> > That's pretty racist.

No denial.

> >>even *saw* a plate of grits til I went south.
> >>
> >>So- what kind of population did that produce? How many
> >>corrupt presidents from these states? How many honest
> >>campaigners from these states who were unwilling to lie to
> >>get elected? How many Nobel Laureates do we see from areas
> >>where the kids were raised on oats and fish, and how many
> >>from regions where they were raised on corn and ham?
> >>
> >>Why are so many Bible thumping nitwit colleges in the
> >>south, and so many progressive universities like that of
> >>MN, WI, & MI in the lake region? Which academic
> >>institutions produce the innovative minds that help keep
> >>the US in the global market?
> >
> > Non sequitur. Big time. Lots of fishing places in the
> > south. Capitalism and the food industry produce a pretty
> > uniform set of food selections...
> >
> >>Likewise, look at Europe. Why is there so much innovation
> >>from the Baltic & North sea nations where they grow oats,
> >>compared to the Mediterranean where everyone grows up on
> >>pasta? Which region was fished out first?
> >
> >
> > I don't see the point of this. They grow oats in Italy and
> > wheat in the Baltic states.
> Ok. what they grow, and what is culturally common in the
> diet is the point. Is that not obvious? Italy is *pasta*.
> from *white* flour. Soul food and Mexican food is *corn*. do
> the nutritional comparison with oats. Then look at the
> efficiency of government, the number of honest

No, you do it. It's your claim.

> and hardworking liberal politicians of the North compared to
> the corrupt way things have been done in the south. be it
> Italy, or Texas.
>
> Its not that there are no fish in the south, its that there
> was not nearly as much. MN is the "land of 10,000" lakes. WI
> & MI similar. we went fishing all the time, everyone had it
> in the freezer. Up there, for several months of the year,
> you didnt even need a freezer; the back porch would do.

Fishing is year round in the south. Are you forgetting the
coasts? Evidently...

[Day Brown]

Rich Travsky wrote:
>>Its not that there are no fish in the south, its that there
>>was not nearly as much. MN is the "land of 10,000" lakes. WI
>>& MI similar. we went fishing all the time, everyone had it
>>in the freezer. Up there, for several months of the year,
>>you didnt even need a freezer; the back porch would do.
>
>
> Fishing is year round in the south. Are you forgetting the
> coasts? Evidently...

No, what I refer to is the combination of access and cultural
values. Fishing in MN is even easier in winter. chop a hole in
the ice. dont even need a boat. drop a lure in the water, dont
even need the fish to bite, jab them with a triton when they
come by to look at it.

But do you really need me to cite the numbers related to
governmental corruption between Northern states like MN and
southern ones like TX, or between Nordic governments like
Sweden & Denmark, and southern ones like Italy & Spain? Is
this not common knowledge which have suffered tyranny and
which not?

Nor do I say the early hominids were "aquatic" as we commonly
use the term nowadays. simply being by the beach when the tide
turned exposes lots of sea life, but then between times, to
forage in the nearby forest for nuts or whatever; ie, a more
widely varied diet.

But it is plain to me that the alpha male instinct for red
meat has made researchers focus on the hunting potential of
hominids. There's lots of hunter myth in Europe that would
lead you to assume that big game like deer and bison were
important in the early diet. But when technological advances
rapidly emerged in the Chalcolithic era along the Danube, the
bone middens show the vast majority of the meat was rabbit.

People ate much more fish, grain, & legumes, which are hardly
mentioned in the mythology at all and rarely shown in in the
TV reconstructions of early hominid life. Of course, hunting
makes better video. But adding up what was actually found in
the middens is over 100 wild & domestic plants from a wide
variety of local micro-habitats. (springs & swamps on up to
rocky hillsides) that would have provided a wide variety of
the kind of micronutrients identified as important to
neurotransmitters for maximizing mental development.

Jared Diamond, in "Collapse" reports on the curious absence
of fish bones compared to the abundance of cattle remains in
the Greenland Norse middens. And goes on at length about how
that culture failed to adapt to the change in climate that
starved them out.