An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries

[Coronary]

www.healthline.bravehost.com

An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat
prevents coronary artery disease? An American paradox1,2
Robert H Knopp

www.healthline.bravehost.com What Is Coronary Artery Disease?

Coronary artery disease (CAD) occurs when the arteries that
supply blood to the heart muscle (the coronary arteries)
become hardened and narrowed. The arteries harden and narrow
due to buildup of a material called plaque (plak) on their
inner walls. The buildup of plaque is known as atherosclerosis
(ATH-er-o-skler-O-sis). As the plaque increases in size, the
insides of the coronary arteries get narrower and less blood
can flow through them. Eventually, blood flow to the heart
muscle is reduced, and, because blood carries much-needed
oxygen, the heart muscle is not able to receive the amount of
oxygen it needs. Reduced or cutoff blood flow and oxygen
supply to the heart muscle can result in:

Angina (AN-ji-na or an-JI-na). Angina is chest pain or
discomfort that occurs when the heart does not get enough
blood. Heart attack. A heart attack happens when a blood clot
develops at the site of plaque in a coronary artery and
suddenly cuts off most or all blood supply to that part of the
heart muscle. Cells in the heart muscle begin to die if they
do not receive enough oxygen-rich blood. This can cause
permanent damage to the heart muscle. Over time, CAD can
weaken the heart muscle and contribute to: Heart failure. In
heart failure, the heart can't pump blood effectively to the
rest of the body. Heart failure does not mean that the heart
has stopped or is about to stop. Instead, it means that the
heart is failing to pump blood the way that it should.
Arrhythmias (a-RITH-me-as). Arrhythmias are changes in the
normal beating rhythm of the heart. Some can be quite serious.
CAD is the most common type of heart disease. It is the
leading cause of death in the United States in both men and
women. www.healthline.bravehost.com

[Jim Chinni]

"coronary" <healthline2@hotmail.com> wrote in part:

>www.healthline.bravehost.com
>
>An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
>http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat
>prevents coronary artery disease? An American paradox1,2
>Robert H Knopp
>
>www.healthline.bravehost.com What Is Coronary Artery Disease?
>
>Coronary artery disease (CAD) occurs when the arteries that
>supply blood to the heart muscle (the coronary arteries)
>become hardened and narrowed. The arteries harden and narrow
>due to buildup of a material called plaque (plak) on their
>inner walls.

This a common error. The plaque in NOT on the inner wall of
the arteries.

>The buildup of plaque is known as atherosclerosis
>(ATH-er-o-skler-O-sis). As the plaque increases in size, the
>insides of the coronary arteries get narrower and less blood
>can flow through them. Eventually, blood flow to the heart
>muscle is reduced, and, because blood carries much-needed
>oxygen, the heart muscle is not able to receive the amount of
>oxygen it needs. Reduced or cutoff blood flow and oxygen
>supply to the heart muscle can result in:
>
>Angina (AN-ji-na or an-JI-na). Angina is chest pain or
>discomfort that occurs when the heart does not get enough
>blood. Heart attack. A heart attack happens when a blood clot
>develops at the site of plaque in a coronary artery and
>suddenly cuts off most or all blood supply to that part of
>the heart muscle. Cells in the heart muscle begin to die if
>they do not receive enough oxygen-rich blood. This can cause
>permanent damage to the heart muscle. Over time, CAD can
>weaken the heart muscle and contribute to: Heart failure. In
>heart failure, the heart can't pump blood effectively to the
>rest of the body. Heart failure does not mean that the heart
>has stopped or is about to stop. Instead, it means that the
>heart is failing to pump blood the way that it should.
>Arrhythmias (a-RITH-me-as). Arrhythmias are changes in the
>normal beating rhythm of the heart. Some can be quite
>serious. CAD is the most common type of heart disease. It is
>the leading cause of death in the United States in both men
>and women. www.healthline.bravehost.com
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu

[Juhana Har]

coronary wrote:

: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated fat
: prevents coronary artery disease? An American paradox1,2
: Robert H Knopp

The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff is
that they are suggesting a very dubious way of increasing HDL
- increasing saturated fats. There are many practical ways to
increase HDL that are known to be healthy and so there is
absolutely no sense of increasing saturated fat.

--
Juhana

[monty1945]

In the typical case of heart disease" in Western nations, for
example, what is occurring at the molecular level is known,
for example: "Macrophage cells, described as the garbage
trucks of the blood, try to carry away oxidatively damaged
LDL. When macrophages get gummed up with oxidized lipids, they
"become bloated with partially digested lipoprotein and
globules of cholesterol" and form "foam cells," Salomon said.
Eventually foam cells develop into the atherosclerotic plaque
found in cardiovascular disease. "Macrophages are supposed to
clean up oxidatively damaged LDL but are covered with these
toxic oxidized lipids that bring the whole process to a
grinding halt," Salomon said."

Source:
http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univcomm/2002/june/cholesterol.htm

Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A
highly saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize
cholesterol. A highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is
often classified as a "saturated fat" in various studies)
will do this kind of damage, particularly the way most
Westerners use it in cooking.

[Mr. Natura]

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
> In the typical case of heart disease" in Western nations,
> for example, what is occurring at the molecular level is
> known, for example: "Macrophage cells, described as the
> garbage trucks of the blood, try to carry away oxidatively
> damaged LDL. When macrophages get gummed up with oxidized
> lipids, they "become bloated with partially digested
> lipoprotein and globules of cholesterol" and form "foam
> cells," Salomon said. Eventually foam cells develop into the
> atherosclerotic plaque found in cardiovascular disease.
> "Macrophages are supposed to clean up oxidatively damaged
> LDL but are covered with these toxic oxidized lipids that
> bring the whole process to a grinding halt," Salomon said."
>
>
> Source: http://www.cwru.edu/pubaff/univcomm/2002/june/chole-
> sterol.htm
>
> Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A
> highly saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize
> cholesterol. A highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is
> often classified as a "saturated fat" in various studies)
> will do this kind of damage, particularly the way most
> Westerners use it in cooking.

Another slow day on your group?

[monty1945]

Here is a report of an experiment that demonstrates how
dangerous these highly unsaturated oils are and how they can
destroy every important molecule in your body. It is basic
science, and thus there is no need for "suggestive" studies
that are based upon false assumptions or ludicrous
classifcations (such as calling the lard of today a
"saturated fat").

http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html

[Msamson119]

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
> Avoid oxidized cholesterol and you avoid the problem. A
> highly saturated fat, like coconut oil, will not oxidize
> cholesterol. A highly unsaturated one, like lard (whch is
> often classified as a "saturated fat" in various studies)
> will do this kind of damage, particularly the way most
> Westerners use it in cooking.

Will you give it a rest with the lard already? It is NOT a
highly unsaturated fat! It is 40% saturated for crying out
loud. It IS stable and even contains an antioxidant.

Monounsaturated fats are pretty neutral so stop harping on
lard, olive oil, etc. when they CAN resist oxidative damage up
to a certain temperature.

Veggie and seed oils OTOH, ARE highly unstable and
polyunsaturated and should definitely be avoided at all costs.
But please, stop slamming lard and pushing coconut oil all the
time. It definitely hurts your credibility.

[Jim Chinni]

"Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:

>coronary wrote:
>
>: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
>: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated
>: fat prevents coronary artery disease? An American
>: paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
>
>The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff is
>that they are suggesting a very dubious way of increasing HDL
>- increasing saturated fats. There are many practical ways to
>increase HDL that are known to be healthy and so there is
>absolutely no sense of increasing saturated fat.

I don't see any weakness in that at all. I do see great
weakness in the research they discuss, however. The conclusion
from the abstract of the study described in the editorial is:

"Conclusions: In postmenopausal women with relatively low
total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated
with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas
carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression."

Again though, this is an observational study, with all the
deficiencies that implies.

The 1954 study mentioned in the editorial would be interesting
to read. At least it was a randomized trial of moderate
duration. Does anyone know how to find a copy on the web?

The ref:

Lancet. 1972 Oct 21;2(7782):835-8.

Effect of cholesterol-lowering diet on mortality from coronary
heart-disease and other causes. A twelve-year clinical trial
in men and women.

Miettinen M, Turpeinen O, Karvonen MJ, Elosuo R,
Paavilainen E.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA jchinnis@alum.mit.edu

[Juhana Har]

Jim Chinnis wrote:
: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part:
:: coronary wrote:
::
::: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
::: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated
::: fat prevents coronary artery disease? An American
::: paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
::
:: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff
:: is that they are suggesting a very dubious way of
:: increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There are many
:: practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be
:: healthy and so there is absolutely no sense in increasing
:: saturated fat.
:
: I don't see any weakness in that at all. I do see great
: weakness in the research they discuss, however. The
: conclusion from the abstract of the study described in the
: editorial is:
:
: "Conclusions: In postmenopausal women with relatively low
: total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is
: associated with less progression of coronary
: atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated
: with a greater progression."

It is typical of low-carb proponents to cherry-pick studies to
support their position. Finding some exceptions or paradoxes
does not change the fact that weight of evidence is still
against saturated fat.

: Again though, this is an observational study, with all the
: deficiencies that implies.
:
: The 1954 study mentioned in the editorial would be
: interesting to read. At least it was a randomized trial of
: moderate duration. Does anyone know how to find a copy on
: the web?
:
: The ref:
:
: Lancet. 1972 Oct 21;2(7782):835-8.
:
: Effect of cholesterol-lowering diet on mortality from
: coronary heart-disease and other causes. A twelve-year
: clinical trial in men and women.
:
: Miettinen M, Turpeinen O, Karvonen MJ, Elosuo R,
: Paavilainen E.

The above study is mentioned often. I tried to find it, but it
seems that it is not available online.

--
Juhana

[Juhana Har]

monty1945@lycos.com wrote:
> Here is a report of an experiment that demonstrates how
> dangerous these highly unsaturated oils are and how they can
> destroy every important molecule in your body. It is basic
> science, and thus there is no need for "suggestive" studies
> that are based upon false assumptions or ludicrous
> classifcations (such as calling the lard of today a
> "saturated fat").
>
> http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html

That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying. No
one in his right mind would suggest such use.

--
Juhana

[Msamson119]

Juhana Harju wrote:

> > http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html
>
> That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying.

Yes, and its harmful effects.

No one in his
> right mind would suggest such use.
>

They and he are not suggesting it.

[Juhana Har]

msamson11975@yahoo.ca wrote:
> Juhana Harju wrote:
>
> > > http://www.reactivereports.com/45/45_2.html
> >
> > That site is about using polyunsaturated fats in frying.
>
> Yes, and its harmful effects.
>
> No one in his
> > right mind would suggest such use.
> >
>
> They and he are not suggesting it.

Sometimes I feel that some people in this newsgroup are
shadow-boxing with an imaginary enemy. To my knowledge no one
in this group is recommending the use of polyunsaturated oils
in frying.

--
Juhana

[Msamson119]

Juhana Harju wrote:
> Sometimes I feel that some people in this newsgroup are
> shadow-boxing with an imaginary enemy. To my knowledge no
> one in this group is recommending the use of polyunsaturated
> oils in frying. Juhana

And no one in the article is recommending it either.

English must not be your first language.

[Pramesh Ru]

Juhana Harju wrote:

> coronary wrote:
>
> : An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
> : http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated
> : fat prevents coronary artery disease? An American
> : paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
>
> The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff
> is that they are suggesting a very dubious way of increasing
> HDL - increasing saturated fats. There are many practical
> ways to increase HDL that are known to be healthy

And they all are?

> and so there is absolutely no sense of increasing
> saturated fat.
>

--

Pramesh Rutajit - p2976221tongue@newsguy.com - remove
tongue to reply.

[Juhana Har]

Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:
:: coronary wrote:
::
::: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
::: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated
::: fat prevents coronary artery disease? An American
::: paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
::
:: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and Retzlaff
:: is that they are suggesting a very dubious way of
:: increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There are many
:: practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be healthy
:
: And they all are?

Here are some suggestions:

http://tinyurl.com/jedeh

:: and so there is absolutely no sense of increasing
:: saturated fat.

--
Juhana

[Pramesh Ru]

Juhana Harju wrote:

> Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
> : Juhana Harju wrote:
> :
> :: coronary wrote:
> ::
> ::: An American paradox - sat fat & coronary arteries
> ::: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/80/5/1102 Saturated
> ::: fat prevents coronary artery disease? An American
> ::: paradox1,2 Robert H Knopp
> ::
> :: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and
> :: Retzlaff is that they are suggesting a very dubious way
> :: of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There are
> :: many practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be
> :: healthy
> :
> : And they all are?
>
> Here are some suggestions:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/jedeh

Thanks. The pecans and pistachios were new ideas but it seems
like one has to eat way too many to get any effect.

--

Pramesh Rutajit - p2976221tongue@newsguy.com - remove
tongue to reply.

[Juhana Har]

Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
::: Juhana Harju wrote:

:::: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and
:::: Retzlaff is that they are suggesting a very dubious way
:::: of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There are
:::: many practical ways to increase HDL that are known to be
:::: healthy
:::
::: And they all are?
::
:: Here are some suggestions:
::
:: http://tinyurl.com/jedeh
:
: Thanks. The pecans and pistachios were new ideas but it
: seems like one has to eat way too many to get any effect.

One raw onion daily is also very efficient in raising HDL. If
that is too much, eat less.

--
Juhana

[Pramesh Ru]

Juhana Harju wrote:

> Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
> : Juhana Harju wrote:
> :: Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
> ::: Juhana Harju wrote:
>
> :::: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and
> :::: Retzlaff is that they are suggesting a very dubious way
> :::: of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There
> :::: are many practical ways to increase HDL that are known
> :::: to be healthy
> :::
> ::: And they all are?
> ::
> :: Here are some suggestions:
> ::
> :: http://tinyurl.com/jedeh
> :
> : Thanks. The pecans and pistachios were new ideas but it
> : seems like one has to eat way too many to get any effect.
>
> One raw onion daily is also very efficient in raising HDL.
> If that is too much, eat less.
>

Yes, I had run into that one as well. Vegies are something
I'm working hard to acquire a taste for with some success.
Onions have been particular difficult and I have tried to
make them part of a regular diet. Nowadays, I eat most of the
onions first on restaurant salads. My goal at one point was
to eat a couple of ounces of onions a day and I think I'll
give that a shot again. Right now my HDL runs around 65 from
a heart attack low of 31 2 years ago. I have a current goal
of getting it above 75 and continuing to improve it's quality
(as assessed by VAP test). If I can get it up another 10
points, then I'm going to shoot for an HDL of 90. Anyway I
can increase reverse cholesterol transport I want to be
working on.

Thanks.

--

Pramesh Rutajit - p2976221tongue@newsguy.com - remove
tongue to reply.

[Juhana Har]

Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
: Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
::: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: Pramesh Rutajit wrote:
::::: Juhana Harju wrote:
::
:::::: The great weakness of that editorial by Knopp and
:::::: Retzlaff is that they are suggesting a very dubious way
:::::: of increasing HDL - increasing saturated fats. There
:::::: are many practical ways to increase HDL that are known
:::::: to be healthy
:::::
::::: And they all are?
::::
:::: Here are some suggestions:
::::
:::: http://tinyurl.com/jedeh
:::
::: Thanks. The pecans and pistachios were new ideas but it
::: seems like one has to eat way too many to get any effect.
::
:: One raw onion daily is also very efficient in raising HDL.
:: If that is too much, eat less.
::
:
: Yes, I had run into that one as well. Vegies are something
: I'm working hard to acquire a taste for with some success.
: Onions have been particular difficult and I have tried to
: make them part of a regular diet. Nowadays, I eat most of
: the onions first on restaurant salads. My goal at one point
: was to eat a couple of ounces of onions a day and I think
: I'll give that a shot again. Right now my HDL runs around 65
: from a heart attack low of 31 2 years ago. I have a current
: goal of getting it above 75 and continuing to improve it's
: quality (as assessed by VAP test). If I can get it up
: another 10 points, then I'm going to shoot for an HDL of 90.
: Anyway I can increase reverse cholesterol transport I want
: to be working on.

Have you considered krill oil? That might raise HDL very
efficiently.

--
Juhana