Asteroid impacts

[East Texas]

The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub could
have caused such a global result. The claim is that as the
impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it generated
sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the surface to
several hundred degrees, killing vitually all the land
dwelling animals. The show then speculated that the remaining
matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for about six years,
killing plankton and decimating life in the oceans. While this
would explain why certain specific species survived, it seems
a bit contrived. The problem I had with this hypothesis is
that there have been a number of titanic impacts throughout
the ages, at least two of them larger than Chixilub based on
crater size, but they did not produce comparable results.
Still, the elemental makeup of the Chixilub rock might have
differred enough to account for this discrepancy. I don't
think we can ever really 'know' what happened back then. We do
know, for a fact, that the dinos didn't make it through the
K-T boundary. Boyle's book Full Circle begins with an ELE
pandemic fifty thousand years before the Chixilub event, and
while it's only fiction, it explains the results as well as
the program on Discovery. Furthermore, it would leave no
evidence behind. A giant solar flare is another possibility,
but I think we would find evidence of irradiation. Anyway, the
big lizards had a helluva long run, but we will probably never
be absolutely certain what happened to them.

[Monkeyman]

Your point? Yes, 65 million years is a really really long ass
time. Yes, we will never be absolutely certain what happened.
BTW, I read Boyle's book. Pretty good book actually, but like
you said, it's fiction. So what do you think happened? Do you
have some insight the rest of us don't?

"East Texas" wrote

> The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
> the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub could
> have caused such a global result. The claim is that as the
> impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it
> generated sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the
> surface to several hundred degrees, killing vitually all the
> land dwelling animals. The show then speculated that the
> remaining matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for about
> six years, killing plankton and decimating life in the
> oceans. While this would explain why certain specific
> species survived, it seems a bit contrived. The problem I
> had with this hypothesis is that there have been a number of
> titanic impacts throughout the ages, at least two of them
> larger than Chixilub based on crater size, but they did not
> produce comparable results. Still, the elemental makeup of
> the Chixilub rock might have differred enough to account for
> this discrepancy. I don't think we can ever really 'know'
> what happened back then. We do know, for a fact, that the
> dinos didn't make it through the K-T boundary. Boyle's book
> Full Circle begins with an ELE pandemic fifty thousand years
> before the Chixilub event, and while it's only fiction, it
> explains the results as well as the program on Discovery.
> Furthermore, it would leave no evidence behind. A giant
> solar flare is another possibility, but I think we would
> find evidence of irradiation. Anyway, the big lizards had a
> helluva long run, but we will probably never be absolutely
> certain what happened to them.

[John Roth]

East Texas wrote:
> The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
> the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub
> could have caused such a global result. The claim is that
> as the impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it
> generated sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the
> surface to several hundred degrees, killing vitually all
> the land dwelling animals. The show then speculated that
> the remaining matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for
> about six years, killing plankton and decimating life in
> the oceans.

> While this would explain why certain specific species
> survived, it seems a bit contrived. The problem I had with
> this hypothesis is that there have been a number of titanic
> impacts throughout the ages, at least two of them

You might be interested in the recent announcement of a really
gigantic crater in Antarctica. The researchers think it might
have been associated with the "great dying," and the splitting
off of Australia from Antarctica.

On the other hand, there is a fairly vocal minority position
that holds that the asteroid impacts were not the _sole_
cause. They point to several really massive volcanic events
that spewed out literally hundreds of cubic kilometers of
lava, together with the associated gasses. We have real world
experiance of relatively miniscule volcano events that
affected climate for literally years; it takes no great
stretch of the imagination to understand that the event which
created the Siberian Traps could have destroyed a lot of life.

John Roth

[Roger Bagu]

It seems to be a matter of probability and is proably another
Levy Flight type distribution. Here is a very recent one I
know of. Forward: FIREBALL UPDATE: 300 tons of TNT. That's the
kinetic energy of the meteoritic fireball sighted June 7th in
Norway, according to Prof. Peter Brown of the University of
Western Ontario. Brown's doctoral student, Wayne Edwards,
arrived at this figure by analyzing infrasound and seismic
data. Early reports of a Hiroshima-like event (12,000+ tons of
TNT) were exaggerated.

"An object like this hits Earth about once a month," notes
Bill Cooke of the Marshall Space Flight Center. "The
Norwegian event was similar to the Park Forest meteorite
impact of 2003."

The Norwegian meteorite probably did hit the ground. One
candidate landing site is viewed with skepticism by
experts. The hunt continues. http://www.spaceweather.com/
East Texas wrote:

>The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
>the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub could
>have caused such a global result. The claim is that as the
>impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it generated
>sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the surface to
>several hundred degrees, killing vitually all the land
>dwelling animals. The show then speculated that the remaining
>matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for about six years,
>killing plankton and decimating life in the oceans. While
>this would explain why certain specific species survived, it
>seems a bit contrived. The problem I had with this hypothesis
>is that there have been a number of titanic impacts
>throughout the ages, at least two of them larger than
>Chixilub based on crater size, but they did not produce
>comparable results. Still, the elemental makeup of the
>Chixilub rock might have differred enough to account for this
>discrepancy. I don't think we can ever really 'know' what
>happened back then. We do know, for a fact, that the dinos
>didn't make it through the K-T boundary. Boyle's book Full
>Circle begins with an ELE pandemic fifty thousand years
>before the Chixilub event, and while it's only fiction, it
>explains the results as well as the program on Discovery.
>Furthermore, it would leave no evidence behind. A giant solar
>flare is another possibility, but I think we would find
>evidence of irradiation. Anyway, the big lizards had a
>helluva long run, but we will probably never be absolutely
>certain what happened to them.
>
>
>

[Johnwl4@Ao]

John Roth wrote:
> You might be interested in the recent announcement of a
> really gigantic crater in Antarctica. The researchers think
> it might have been associated with the "great dying," and
> the splitting off of Australia from Antarctica.
>
> On the other hand, there is a fairly vocal minority
> position that holds that the asteroid impacts were not the
> _sole_ cause. They point to several really massive volcanic
> events that spewed out literally hundreds of cubic
> kilometers of lava, together with the associated gasses. We
> have real world experiance of relatively miniscule volcano
> events that affected climate for literally years; it takes
> no great stretch of the imagination to understand that the
> event which created the Siberian Traps could have destroyed
> a lot of life.
>
> John Roth

OT: Cindy Looy and others found that relatives of the
quillwort were by far the most common plants for maybe 5
million years after the Permian-Triassic boundary, which
implies that something was suppressing plants that couldn't
reproduce by apomixis. The Deccan Traps or geysers
associated with them maybe. OTOH, there were at least two
blooms of -what - red tide (can' t remember the name),
which implies a couple of serious blows to ocean life.
Maybe the Antarctic bolide, and Bedout. The Antarctic one
also might have caused the start of the breakup of Pagaea.
This was kicked around on a Yahoo group on extinctions.
Regards John GW

[Monkeyman]

"John Roth" <JohnRoth1@jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:1150558827.960149.311410@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> East Texas wrote:
>> The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
>> the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub
>> could have caused such a global result. The claim is that
>> as the impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it
>> generated sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the
>> surface to several hundred degrees, killing vitually all
>> the land dwelling animals. The show then speculated that
>> the remaining matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for
>> about six years, killing plankton and decimating life in
>> the oceans.
>
>> While this would explain why certain specific species
>> survived, it seems a bit contrived. The problem I had with
>> this hypothesis is that there have been a number of titanic
>> impacts throughout the ages, at least two of them
>
> You might be interested in the recent announcement of a
> really gigantic crater in Antarctica. The researchers think
> it might have been associated with the "great dying," and
> the splitting off of Australia from Antarctica.
>
> On the other hand, there is a fairly vocal minority position
> that holds that the asteroid impacts were not the _sole_
> cause. They point to several really massive volcanic events
> that spewed out literally hundreds of cubic kilometers of
> lava, together with the associated gasses. We have real
> world experiance of relatively miniscule volcano events that
> affected climate for literally years; it takes no great
> stretch of the imagination to understand that the event
> which created the Siberian Traps could have destroyed a lot
> of life.
>
> John Roth
>
Especially given the enormous time frame. When we say 'It's
been like that forever' we usually mean for the last few
hundred years. Nothing at all, on a geologic time scale.
Deccan Traps, solar flares, ELE pandemics, pole shifts... All
are sensible possibilities. As a matter of physics I have
trouble accepting Chixilub.

[Johnwl4@Ao]

johnwl4@aol.com wrote:
> OT: Cindy Looy and others found that relatives of the
> quillwort
were
> by far the most common plants for maybe 5 million years
> after the Permian-Triassic boundary, which implies that
> something was suppressing plants that couldn't reproduce by
> apomixis. The Deccan Traps or geysers associated with them
> maybe. OTOH, there were at least two blooms of -what - red
> tide (can' t remember the name), which implies a couple of
> serious blows to ocean life. Maybe the Antarctic bolide, and
> Bedout. The Antarctic one also might have caused the start
> of the breakup of Pagaea. This was kicked around on a Yahoo
> group on extinctions. Regards John GW

That's phytoplankton - left traces of two blooms in the
rocks. OTOH, Wang, I think, found the loss of ocean
life was very sudden very sudden. Few thousand years,
maybe. John GW

[Rmacfarl]

johnwl4@aol.com wrote:
> johnwl4@aol.com wrote:
> > OT: Cindy Looy and others found that relatives of the
> > quillwort
> were
> > by far the most common plants for maybe 5 million years
> > after the Permian-Triassic boundary, which implies that
> > something was suppressing plants that couldn't reproduce
> > by apomixis. The Deccan Traps or geysers associated with
> > them maybe. OTOH, there were at least two blooms of -what
> > - red tide (can' t remember the name), which implies a
> > couple of serious blows to ocean life. Maybe the Antarctic
> > bolide, and Bedout. The Antarctic one also might have
> > caused the start of the breakup of Pagaea. This was kicked
> > around on a Yahoo group on extinctions. Regards John GW
>
> That's phytoplankton - left traces of two blooms in the
> rocks. OTOH, Wang, I think, found the loss of ocean life
> was very sudden very sudden. Few thousand years, maybe.
> John GW

All very interesting folks, but about 60 million years' off
topic on SAP don't you think?

[Johnwl4@Ao]

johnwl4@aol.com wrote:
> h of the imagination to understand that
> > the event which created the Siberian Traps could have
> > destroyed a lot of life.
> >
> > John Roth
>
> The Deccan Traps or geysers associated with them maybe.

h Oops, Siberian traps, of course. John GW

[Johnwl4@Ao]

rmacfarl wrote:
> All very interesting folks, but about 60 million years' off
> topic on SAP don't you think?

I have a slight suspicion of it. There are groups which
deal with extinctions, BTW.

Regards
John GW

[Deowll]

"John Roth" <JohnRoth1@jhrothjr.com> wrote in message
news:1150558827.960149.311410@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> East Texas wrote:
>> The Discovery Channel aired a show about impacts throughout
>> the ages, offering a new hypothesis about how Chixilub
>> could have caused such a global result. The claim is that
>> as the impact debris rained down through the atmosphere it
>> generated sufficient heat to raise the temperature on the
>> surface to several hundred degrees, killing vitually all
>> the land dwelling animals. The show then speculated that
>> the remaining matter, mostly dust, blocked out the sun for
>> about six years, killing plankton and decimating life in
>> the oceans.
>
>> While this would explain why certain specific species
>> survived, it seems a bit contrived. The problem I had with
>> this hypothesis is that there have been a number of titanic
>> impacts throughout the ages, at least two of them
>
> You might be interested in the recent announcement of a
> really gigantic crater in Antarctica. The researchers think
> it might have been associated with the "great dying," and
> the splitting off of Australia from Antarctica.
>
> On the other hand, there is a fairly vocal minority position
> that holds that the asteroid impacts were not the _sole_
> cause. They point to several really massive volcanic events
> that spewed out literally hundreds of cubic kilometers of
> lava, together with the associated gasses. We have real
> world experiance of relatively miniscule volcano events that
> affected climate for literally years; it takes no great
> stretch of the imagination to understand that the event
> which created the Siberian Traps could have destroyed a lot
> of life.
>

Truth, the other point is that instead of trying to do an
either or people ought consider that if three or four bad
things are happening at the same time the resulting die off
will be larger because the bad effects are going to be
cumulative.

> John Roth