[BFL] LC and BFL - Tips and Hints

[Natrushka]

If you’re interested in trying the BFL program but you do not want to give up your LC lifestyle there is an alternative. The two can be combined. Yes, you do have to make some modifications to your WOE, but nothing as serious as you may think.

You will probably need to increase your carb if you’re eating less than 20g a day, intense exercise such as this cannot be done on <20g a day, unless you’ve been exercising and LCing for a long period of time. Adjusting how and when you eat, however, is probably going to be your biggest change. Five or six meals a day is, IMHO, the key to making this plan work for you. 70-80% of any exercise plan is the nutrition. With an intense training program you need to fuel your body for the work you are asking of it.

Planning
Half the battle with this program is the planning; get a handle on that and everything else will fall into place. You have to plan your workouts, you have to plan your meals, and you have to plan to get enough sleep. If you’ve never been a big planner this is going to change you! I suggest doing a few ‘trial’ runs before starting – especially if you’re new to this type of schedule. Knowing your way around your weights and being comfortable going from one exercise to another will make things more enjoyable and you’ll be able to work at a faster pace.

I recommend downloading the excel spreadsheet off the BFL website (http://www.bodyforlife.com/downloads.shtml) and using it to plan your workouts (these are the same sheets you can find at the back of your book). I plan my workout the night before and print it off for the next day. I also make sure I’ve got a full one liter water bottle in the fridge and some workout clothes laid out (then again I get up at 5:20 a.m.)

Nutrition
If you’re already using fitday to figure out your daily calorie totals and breakdowns I recommend you continue; planning 6 meals a day takes some work. It helps if you keep in mind that you are aiming for a window of 3 hours between meals, not the usual 6 hours. Smaller portions with protein at every meal. You’re trying to provide your body with a constant supply of protein so that it can go about the business of building lean muscle. You may find in the first week or two that you’re having a hard time eating all the food – this will pass. Get in your 5 - 6 meals and if necessary adjust the portion sizes (it is OK to have that last meal before bed if you must to get it in); very soon into the program you’ll notice that eating all those meals isn't a problem and you may have to increase your portions / calories.

Don't fall victim to the low fat mindset that eating less will give you better results at a faster pace. Watch your calories! If you notice that progress has slowed down or that you're feeling tired look at how much you've been eating. And remember, what worked for you 3 months ago might now work now - your body's needs will change.

Foods like plain yoghurt with active cultures, steel cut oats, berries and apples, nuts and seeds and more veggies are things you should consider adding to your diet (which should already contain 20 to 30g of carbs from green vegetables); they are LC and provide the carbs you’ll need for the upcoming 12 weeks. A palatable protein shake is something you might want to look into – look for one that combines a few carbs along with the protein. Remember, though, that these are ‘supplements’, they are to supplement your diet, not to replace real food.

Protein requirements / needs will also vary - I would keep it at a minimum 1g per lb of LBM though. You do need to increase carbs – this kind of intensity cannot be done at a level of <20g of carbs a day. If you feel sluggish and tired and you’re doing everything else correctly then look to increasing your carbs.

F.A.T. when you LC your body’s primary fuel source switches from carbs to fat. Fat is what powers your metabolism and it’s important not to skimp on this. Reading the book may give you reason to pause – remember the book is low fat, moderate carb, high protein. By-the-book your primary fuel is carbohydrates. Protein, on the other hand, is not a preferred fuel for either method. Protein is reserved for building and repairing tissue. A diet low in both carbs and fat is akin to metabolic starvation, and is not going to give you the results you are looking for.

The only time you should monitor fat intake with an effort to reducing it is in the post resistance workout meal. Here you will want protein and carbs. Avoiding both fat and fiber at this time will ensure fast emptying of the protein your muscles need to help them rebuild and repair damaged tissue. This applies to EFAs, as well.

Body Fat %
There are a few different formulas you can use to figure this out for yourself (and I strongly suggest you take the time to do it – having the numbers for comparison 6 weeks down the road will be very motivating) Here are a few online calculators that you can use:

The Zone’s BF online site (http://www.zoneperfect.com)
Downloadable desktop calculator (http://kingspawn.home.att.net/BodyFat.htm)
Cool tools BF measurement website (http:// healthcentral.com/cooltools/CT_Fitness/bodyfat1.cfm)
CKD parameter calculator – this site is useful for figuring out protein / fat ratios as well (http://www.users.voicenet.com/~petrizzi/fitness/ckdcalc.html)


But do take measurements for your own sake, you’ll regret if you don’t. For a first challenge it isn’t unheard of to lose 8-10% body fat and gain a few lbs of lean muscle.

The workouts
Needless to day we’ve all heard about the benefits of a.m. cardio on an empty stomach (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21258). If you can manage your workouts first thing in the morning then more power to you. If you plan to workout later in the day try to not eat 2 hours before your cardio and wait at least an hour afterward for your next meal. With weight lifting you should always eat within 45 minutes of working out; you run the risk of your muscles wasting if you wait too long . This is a good time for a protein shake and some glutamine. Before any workout be sure to drink at least two cups of water; keep water with you during your workout and be sure to drink after. Hydration is very important.

Pyramid workout example (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68489)

The question of more cardio
I experienced this. I had been doing 45 minutes of medium intensity aerobic activity twice a day for years prior to BFL – giving that up for 20 minutes (regardless of how high intensity it was) just seemed wrong! I quickly had that notion beaten out of me ;) To paraphrase: "Extra cardio, in addition to the BFL style cardio of the plan, will result in muscle loss – guaranteed, unless you're eating a lot of food and a lot more protein... this will inhibit fat loss. The 20 minutes is built into BFL because cardio is not key to fat loss. Excessive cardio usually does more harm than good from a fat loss point of view"

The trap that many people fall into goes like this:

- they start with a basic program, such as BFL, that includes a moderate amount of cardio.

- they get some results

- they assume, usually based on bad info, that more cardio will yield more results.

- they add more cardio... and initially (say for a week) they will get some small results.

- after a week, or so, they notice that they're suddenly a bit "softer" and (usually) that their weight training is starting to slip.

- they add more cardio since the common misconception is that cardio "burns" fat and end up losing a bit more muscle which makes the weight training even more difficult which leads to more muscle loss (maintaining strength plays a big part in holding onto muscle).

- less muscle = less fat loss


More is not better when it comes to BFL cardio – in fact there are those out there who maintain that the only reason cardio exists in the program is to make people, who come from a background such as I, think that they are working hard. For fat loss, cardio is no where near the performer that weight training is. Stick to the 20 minute aerobic solution (MAS) – hit your 10s and watch the results. I gave up my extra hours of cardio and I’m not sorry – I have all this extra time now!

Alternating your exercises
Every four weeks you should change your routines; your muscle grow accustomed to workouts and learn what is expected of them, you are trying to fool them by switching things around. By the time you’re at week 4 you’ll feel comfortable enough to do this, don’t worry. Remember, Change Is Good

DOMS
DOMS stands for delayed onset muscle soreness. This is what you feel 24 to 28 hours post weight workout. This is end result of micro tears and inflammation as your body repairs and rebuilds. It can be mild and it can be intense – I have found that it’s less intense the lower my carbs and more intense the higher my carbs. I often feel nothing when lifting while following a LC WOE, yet I know that I am making progress (there are these new muscles I have as proof ;) ) There is a connection between LC and lack of pain and it is muscle glycogen – or lack of. Muscle glycogen is stored carbohydrates; LCers are typically low on glycogen – it goes during that first week of LCing. Less glycogen equals less of a muscle “pump”. It is believed that this also equals less pain, as your muscle is smaller than when you eat high carb.

Glutamine
Get some! The one thing that changed my workouts at the beginning was discovering this stuff. After my second UBWO and my first LBWO I was in quite a bit of pain – walking down the stairs was torture, sitting on a bar stool was something I’d only think about ;) Someone recommended Glutamine – this turns out to be a wonder amino acid. Not only does it help with recovery, it prevents wasting of your muscles, it bolsters your immune system, it regulates glucose, and it plays an important part in your body's production of human growth hormone. We take this every day now at home – and double up when we feel a cold coming on. For more information on when to take it, how much to take and what the different types of glutamine are check out the following: Glutamine Info (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69008). Be sure you get a powdered form of glutamine as your daily doses will be anywhere from 5g to 15g based on body weight. The pills come in 500mg doses – that’s a lot of pills to be swallowing on a daily basis. :eek:

Supplements
Nothing burns fat like your body, but who wouldn't want a little bit of help? Here are a few supplements that you might want to look at more closely:

Glutamine (see above)
Creatine - Why to use creatine (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=316439&highlight=creatine#post316439) more info (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=461551&highlight=creatine#post461551)
Green Tea (extract or tea) (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=410763&highlight=green#post410763)
ECA (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32311)
Caffeine - how it helps prevent muscle wasting (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=178999&highlight=coffee#post178999)

Sleep
It is important that you get at sufficient sleep a night. Do not overlook the importance of this aspect. Sleep is when your muscles rebuild; they need that time. You are going to be tired at first !

Results
Visible results may take 4 weeks, or they may take 10 weeks, but you’ll see them - and you will feel them. Concentrate on measurements and not scale weight – and never, ever weigh after a free day (if you decide to use this option) Women can typically spend the first 8 – 10 weeks growing muscle; the fat loss happens after this. It is not uncommon to lose 5 lbs. (scale lbs.) in week 10. I found that I lost scale weight consistently and then at week eight I started gaining (about 6 lbs.) but measurements decreased and clothing that fit a few weeks before was hanging on me in week 9. My metabolism has increased – my Basal Body Temperature is up, I wake up hot at night under too many covers and I get hungry now between meals (so I eat more). Once again I strongly suggest taking measurements before you being (and pictures) – there will be a difference once the 12 weeks have passed!

Some resources of note
http://www.exrx.net/Exercise.html This site has a very long list of the exercises along with short video clips of how to perform them. You can search by muscle group or exercise, and many variations are explained (e.g. various exercises to work your biceps using barbells, dumbbells or cables).

http://www.fitsite.com/anatomy.cfm – Fitsite, another anatomy / exercise directory with videos showing correct form.

www.LEANandStrong.com is probably the BFL message board – they are purists however and have some pretty strong views about LCing – but if you’re looking for information on supplements and / or exercise with a BFL bent it’s a good resource. The transformation gallery is a great place to spend a few hours as well.

www.hussman.org/fitness/bfl.htm Dr. Hussman’s site will give you a lot of the same information you’ll find in your book, but in much greater detail (the part about “Your Raging Metabolism” is worth the read.) He’s very low fat, but worth a look, especially if you’re into the science behind it. Just a word of warning - if you are doing BFL w/ LC nutrition keep in mind that there is a "metabolic advantage" associated with LC and a calorie is not a calorie in the way Hussman talks about them.

Best of luck everyone!
Nat

[alto]

You really are Wonder Woman, Nat. Thank you for this -- even though I'm not a BFL person. It's wonderful to have so much information all in one place. Thank you so much for doing this! I've noticed so many BFL questions while reading journals. I'm sure this will be a lot of help to people.

[wangeci]

Nat,
You are a wealth of information. If it wasn't such a rigorous routine, I would certainly like to try, but I am not allowed to lift much for weights or increase the heartbeat very much. But, you have listed everything that everybody wonders about and has questions. What a researcher you are.
Cindy

[pegm]

Great information and links, Nat! Thanks so much for taking the time to pass along all you've learned.

[crumbunny]

Nat, thanks for posting this. I'm still researching what program I want to follow. All I know is that my former WOE was killing me and I respond very negatively to sugar consumption.

Some questions that I couldn't find in the limited time I had to peruse your links: is the BFL program something you have to purchase to find out how to eat/exercise? Do you have to belong to a gym or can you lift barbells in your home? How much time is actually spent exercising? Do you try to make your protein choices the less fatty versions since you're combining approaches?

Like I mentioned in my journal, all this info makes my head spin! :spin:

[Ruth]

Originally posted by crumbunny
Some questions that I couldn't find in the limited time I had to peruse your links: is the BFL program something you have to purchase to find out how to eat/exercise? Do you have to belong to a gym or can you lift barbells in your home? How much time is actually spent exercising? Do you try to make your protein choices the less fatty versions since you're combining approaches?

Like I mentioned in my journal, all this info makes my head spin! :spin:

Hi,

I'm obviously not Nat ;) but can probably point you in the right direction: The only thing to purchase is the book, Body for Life (borrow it from your local library if you're not sure you want to do this). There are no other fees or charges, however there will be the costs of supplements and of course gym fees or equipment if you choose to w/o at home. You can do the workouts in your home with barbells. About 4 -5 hrs a week is spent exercising (over 6 days). Dietary fat: I have noticed in her journal that Nat usually consumes around 100 gr fat each day.

Nat, have you got more wisdom for us?

[Natrushka]

Ruth just about covered it all, crumbunny.

The book is all you really need to get started. I bet they have cheap copies here www.half.com (they seem to have every other LC book)

Exercise is 6 days a week alternating high intensity interval training (for 20 minutes) and weight lifting (approx 45 minutes). Lowering fat is something you have test out for yourself - I found it horrid - and went right back to my 100g as Ruth pointed out.

You can get more information on the program here: www.bodyforlife.com

Nat

[Judi B.]

This is exactly what I'm trying to do! Thanks for putting it into relative terms. I like the idea of PP and am incorporating it into the exercise program of BFL!
Judi

[kevin m]

Nat:

Man I wish I took the time to really understand this program like you did. But since you did it saved me time, THANKS !!!

I bought the book today and will read it over the next few.

I have some specific questions re: using fitday.com, what is the best forum to ask you them?

Thanks

Kevin m

[Natrushka]

If you pop into my Journal, Kevin, I'll be sure to see any question you have - you can also post in the Daily section; there are many members who'll be able to help out.

Nat

[Homegirl]

So much for sharing all that information. Wonderful. But where do you find the time??????

Also hoping to get my own copy of the book from Superstore at 1/2 price when they replenish their stock.

Thanks again for all the info. and tips.

Bobbie

[donnaj]

I will look into the book. I have to think about since of my health. I will ask my doctor this Monday. Thanks again for all the information. :wave:

[bsayne]

You are so giving of your time Nat! Thank you for sharing your research and experiences they are truely appreciated and should be at least partly credited with the many successes to follow!

Beth

[Marlaine]

Nat is a rare treasure and it's wonderful that so many appreciate her.

M

[Bloom]

Congratulations on your continued sucess Nat! BFL folk are so inspriation and the results make my eyes water.
A great place to have a look at lots of totally awesome results in photos and interviews you can listen to is http://www.bodychangers.com/

:cool: !!

[tamarian]

Hi Bloom, nice to see you again! :)

Wa'il

[Chrissy]

I went shopping today, and I still can't find this book anywhere.

So anyways, I am going to order it on line.

I was wondering which book to buy, is there a particular one that will explain everything in it?

The one I am looking at is this one
:http://chapters.indigo.ca/item.asp?Catalog=Books&Section=Books&Cat=&Lang=en&Item=978006019339&mscssid=ETDR2C18AQDR8LMMFSBFPQ1PGQFB1BD6&WSID=2001E1B8B03725DA43ECADB0391D14D7205D1412

Or is there one that is better and more updated?

Thanks in advance!

[tamarian]

Good question Chrissy, I was going to ask the same.

Just came back from the Superstor, found a hardcover copy selling for $19 (half price). But it seemed tiny with lots of photos, people testimonies, menu samples. I left it there, thinking there must be a "meaty" version with some more details.

If that's the only one, I can read it in half an hour at Chapters, and buy something else (I'd feel guilty otherwise :)

Wa'il

[Marlaine]

<b>Chrissy and Wa'il</b>....

That's the one. I paid 32 bucks for my copy and I don't feel bad about it. I like his philosophy though it's not new to me. So many have said it all in so many different ways. The information is there to do his program and the exercises are there too. Those make it worth it to me. I guess it's a matter of personal preferences. I did take the time to skim-read it in the bookstore before buying it and then thought about it for a night. Bottom line was that I WANT to do BFL, so I wanted the definative version.

Marlaine

[Chrissy]

Thanks Marlaine, Im going to order it right now!!!!
Chapters is pretty good for shipping, usually 2-3 days, I'll read it as soon as I get it in.......

Hey do you think will look like those two guys off Saturday night live......Hans & Frans "I'm going to pump you up"!!!! :lol:

[Marlaine]

I LOVE Hans and Franz! Worse things could happen than to be like them! I have always appreciated the physiques of men who work out to get looking like Arnold and Bill Phillips. I'm quite fascinated by them and have this incredible urge to get tactile! :daze:

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine
The information is there to do his program and the exercises are there too. Those make it worth it to me.

I just got it. My reluctance was due to not being sure if the one I found was just an addendum with stories and charts etc.. Sort of like Part II, or a LifePlan version, since it seemed to lack any "meat" and lots of fillers. But I solved that problem by getting CALP at the same time to fix my problem with content expectations :)

Wa'il

[Chrissy]

While I anxiously wait for my book, can any of you, please tell me what kind of equipment I have to buy for doing BFL?

I have barbells, free weights at various weights, a bench with a leg press and a treadmill as well.

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by Chrissy
I have barbells, free weights at various weights, a bench with a leg press and a treadmill as well.

Looks to me like you have it all there now! The treadmill for the alternating cardio days and you need weights in pairs and in increments. Mine are 5# increments and I wish they were 2.5#.

Anything else?

Marlaine

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Marlaine
Anything else?


That should be it for the first few weeks - you might find yourself outgrowing your dumbbells pretty fast - a set of adjustable ones might be in order. I suggest the ones with the clamps and not the screws as they are easier to change (usually you can get a 40lb set for about 19$). I moved on to a barbell and a curling bar around week 5 but could have managed without - they were basically toys ;)

Only other thing I can think of is a good pair of lifting gloves - your hands will thank you.

Nat

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine

Mine are 5# increments and I wish they were 2.5#.

Why not post about it in the trading post forum, see if someone is willing to either exchange sets with you, or buy them, so you can get a 2.5 set. Just a thought.

I'm planning on checking the sports junkeis to see if there are decent used sets. Our building has a good gym with nautilus machines, but no free weights, to avoid theft.

Wa'il

[Marlaine]

Wa'il....

I think my first step will be to see if Fitness Depot will take them back. Thanks for the suggestion though.

M

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine
I think my first step will be to see if Fitness Depot will take them back.

You shouldn't have a problem, I just didn't know they were new.

Wa'il

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by tamarian
You shouldn't have a problem, I just didn't know they were new.
Wa'il

Yeah, that's what I thought, but it now looks like I may.

Phoned today and the salesman told me that he'll have to see what he can do that they don't do refunds.

Marlaine

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine
Phoned today and the salesman told me that he'll have to see what he can do that they don't do refunds.


Do they have a 2.5 increment set to exchange? If not, just raise hell. Don't consider it a refund, consider it compensation for an "unsuitable" set :)

Wa'il

[Chrissy]

Went to meet my gal pal for coffee in the afternoon. She is going to start Body for Life with me. I’m still waiting for the book which I ordered from Chapters a few days ago, which I paid full price for and postage!!!!! Anyways, we went to Extra foods today to buy some new deli cheese and here there was one book left on the shelve on sale for $19.95.....we asked the clerk if she had any more in the back, and there was none, so I said that I would bite the bullet and pay the extra $20 and wait for the one I have on order and she could have the one in the store......were both exciting to get started.
She’s a health nut freak too, and she has been jogging for years outside, most early mornings as soon as she finishes her breakfast though, however, I’ve been telling her lately (from the help from you folks at this forum) that less cardio is better and to start adding a weight lifting program such as BFL and to do her workouts first thing in the morning on a empty stomach, she is astonished to hear this as I was, but she’s starting to contemplate that maybe, just maybe it will help you to lose weight faster, its not that she is overweight, she just can’t get rid of her last 10-15 stuborn pounds......I still have to push myself to do my workouts in the mornings when I get up, especially on my working days, but I do still wait at least 2 hours after my supper to do my workouts if I wait till the evening....its hard to do a workout first thing in the morning, but I do understand the concept and end results and I think I might get into it more once I read the whole book, that might just get me more motivated.

Thanks Nat and Everyone, I look forward to the workouts! :wave:

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by tamarian
Do they have a 2.5 increment set to exchange? If not, just raise hell. Don't consider it a refund, consider it compensation for an "unsuitable" set :)
Wa'il

Yes, they have a set with 2.5 increments. I believe they call it a Personal Plus set. Problem is that I've already invested $308 plus tax and the other set would be an additional $160. I'm just not prepared to spend that much more! And I still need a bench! If I had my choice at this point I'd return my set and just use the gym at the rec center (which is what I'm doing now while I wait to resolve the problem, anyway.)

Marlaien

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine
Problem is that I've already invested $308 plus tax and the other set would be an additional $160.

I'd say don't give up trying to get a full refund, regardless of their stupid policy. It's not like you changed your mind about the colour or anything. If the sales person keeps saying he'll "see what he can do" look for a manager, it's peanuts to their sales figures. Good luck :thup:

Wa'il

[Chrissy]

Yippie I got the book in, and I’m nearly finished, not much for reading, but it sounds intriguing. I just finished the 20 minute Aerobics Solution on the treadmill. I walked intensively fast and jogged at different levels as well. Whew! The sweat was just pouring from my neck. I would rate my level as a 7-8? but I'm not sure as I will have to learn the rates of levels yet. Its amazing that this is going to work in less time than from all the fast walking on the treadmill I’ve been doing all this time. I am so glad I can do this in less time with my busy schedule.

Tomorrow I will set my alarm early and and will officially start tomorrow as my Day 1 and do the 20-minute Aerobics over again and go by the daily chart as it reads on page 78 on a empty stomach too, and take sundays off as well. Meanwhile I will re-read the weight training part and set up a schedule on how much weight and how many reps I can do on the chart too.

I am so excited, the pictures of the people in the book who have lost weight, it's amazing.

Oh yes, Nat, I went to the Yahoo BFL for Women club, you don’t want to mention low carb, or Atkins at that place, its a taboo word to them and their wicked! Oh well, I’m not going to waste my energy explaining why Atkins has helped me get healthy. There are a few nice ladies who are following LC that are very friendly though. :)

I will also have to go buy some Glutamine in the powder form, all I have is the capsules and I don't think thats going to be enough. Again thank you so much for this wonderful understanding forum and your excellent tips on doing this Nat!

Take care! :wave:

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by tamarian
I'd say don't give up trying to get a full refund

Good suggestion on your part. I went to the manager and ultimately he did give me a refund. I think I'm going to just do this at the gym for the time being. It's just as easy for me and at least I'm awake when I start sweating that way!

Marlaine

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Marlaine
I went to the manager and ultimately he did give me a refund.

Reason prevailed, good for you! :thup:

Wa'il

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Chrissy
Oh yes, Nat, I went to the Yahoo BFL for Women club, you don?t want to mention low carb, or Atkins at that place, its a taboo word to them

They should rename themselves, Weight Whatching Women on BFL :)

After reading the BFL Q&A chapter, it states high-carb diet benefit is a myth, and in another question he talks positively about oils and EFA's. Without working the numbers from the menu samples, it looks roughly close to the Zone blocks.

Wa'il

[Natrushka]

Going "by the book" it is supposed to work out to 40/40/20 - and yet there is the admonishion to 'avoid bread' and 'refined foods'. I think he wanted it to be as main stream as possible - it is lower carbs but like most main stream plans it is also low fat. Perhaps we will be able to perfect the program and then let the rest of them know ;)

Nat

[Chrissy]

Does anyone know how much the bar is in the barbell set that is called York?

I have no clue how many pounds it is, and I really don't want to move my weight scale if I don't have to?

[bkcooper]

Most barbells are 20#

[Natrushka]

They vary, Chrissy. I have one that weighs 16lbs and another that weighs 11 lbs. I'd suggest lugging the bar up (or down) to your scales and checking.

Nat

[Chrissy]

Thats it! Here I thought it would be around 45 lbs.....LOL

Well, I guess I better move the scale downstairs to make sure how much I'm pressing.

Tomorrow is weight training day, so I find out then. Thanks Nat & bkcooper! :wave:

[Natrushka]

Chrissy, the Olympic bars are the ones that weigh 45lbs :)

Nat

[Natrushka]

Bump to advise that the sticky has been updated with a few new links and information.

Nat

[Bloom]

Hi Nat,
I love reading about your progress and am wondering if theres some pic's of you somewhere to nosey at :q:
You must be unrecognisable from what you used to look like and I wouldnt want to miss it if theres something other than a head shot somewhere to be found :)

[Natrushka]

*lol* No, Bloom, nothing new since Cuba. We usually take pictures at family gatherings, but Easter really didnt happen :( So the next biggie will be Mothers' Day, I believe. Sometimes I do wish I had a digital camera!

Nat

[Bloom]

Oh well never to mind :( but you do look great in the lemon dress in your journal, its just not as show all as I wanted to see :o
Im still wading though all your pages and up to 18, you gotta slow down or I'll never catch up :lol:
Your really tempting me to switch to BFL but i dont know whats holding me back :confused: ....The doubt of myself commiting to excersise like you have I think. I think I am just tooo plain old lazy!!

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by Bloom
Your really tempting me to switch to BFL but i dont know whats holding me back :confused:

How about reading the book? It requires a committment - but only a few hours of your time ;) Reading doesnt mean you have to do it - I've read a whole whack of LC books w/o switching plans. If nothing else it will give you an idea of just what you can accomplish when you put your mind to something. The amount of exercise and the level of intensity doesnt have to be BFL - find something that works for you, this way you're more likely to stick with it :)

Nat

P.S. LOL on the dress comment - I have some more riske pics, however I was 18 months old at the time they were taken ;)

[Bloom]

Originally posted by Natrushka


How about reading the book?

Nat

P.S. LOL on the dress comment - I have some more riske pics, however I was 18 months old at the time they were taken ;)

as for the BFL...I have the book on order so will do that.

and as for the pic's... now your making me blush :o I wasnt meaning to be THAT nosey!! :eek:
;)

[judy130]

Thanks, Nat. I have only just spotted this forum and it sounds like what I need now. I have seen the book on amazon.com and seen some good reviews.
What I wondered was whether anyone of any age can do it - I am very unfit, but I know from past experience I get fit quite quickly if I am keep at it.
Judy

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by judy130
What I wondered was whether anyone of any age can do it

Hi there Judy....

I'm not sure what you mean by "any age", but if you are talking about over 50 - then the answer is YES! and I'm living proof. Check out my Gym Journal for details.

Marlaine

[TeriDoodle]

That is the beauty of the program, Judy, is that anyone of any age at any level of fitness can do this program. The important thing is that each time you lift or do cardio that you reach a certain level of intensity....it's called "hitting your 10". So it doesn't matter if that's with a 3# weight or a 30# weight....as long as it's your personal best!

You really should read the book (see if your library has a copy! or visit half.com)....its very inspirational but also very specific. There is also a website you can visit www.bodyforlife.com (http://www.bodyforlife.com) for more information.

I'm at the end of week one and loving it!!! And oh, by the way....I haven't exercised for years and years!

[techgirl]

Hi,

I am starting BFL and would like to thank Nat for all the innformation she is posting. It's great.
I am almost done reading the book and find it really interesting.

I went of my Low Carb WOL two weeks ago and I feel gross. I have horrible mood swings and cravings. I had a bagel this morning with Nutella (how bad is that???) and I am going right back to Low Carb tomorrow. I was doing OK until I went to Disney World and ate carbs in industrial quantities. I really, really did not have any fun at WDW. But, that's another story!

If anyone has any tips on starting BFL, please let me know.

[Natrushka]

Hi there, Tech. Welcome back to LC and congrats on the decision to start BFL. I would suggest having a look through a few journals and gym logs to get some ideas for menus and workouts - there are a few of us here who have completed (and are doing) the program (Marlaine, DivaDani, Lisaf, Ruth, Homegirl, KarenB, Wbahn and me) Copy any ideas as you see fit :)

There are some good questions in the BFL forum that will probably come up during your first week -have a good look through there as well. And if you're new to weight lifting be sure to check out Trainerdan's sticky in the General Exercise forum "Weight lifting for beginners"

All the best!
Nat

[judy130]

Thanks all for the feedback. I ordered the book straight away on Friday but it said 3 -5 weeks. Then, by coincidence, on Saturday I went into a bookshop with my daughter and there it was staring me in the face - it must have been fate!

I started Day 1 this morning and felt really good about it. I am going to start a gym log now.

In fact, I am feeling very good about myself as I would never have stuck this long to giving up sugar and avoiding all the chocolates the family have been eating.

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE SUPPORT.

Judy

[TeriDoodle]

Welcome to the club of Bodacious Masochistic BFL Babes!! You're gonna LOVE it!

[techgirl]

Well, I did it. My first BFL workout. I was in and out of the gym under one hour. I KNOW my upper body will hurt tomorrow. It was a hard workout but I feel good about it.

I took my measurements this morning and will compare in a month to see if anything is happening. I am staying off the scale for now.

Tomorrow, cardio! :hyper: Yeaaaaaah

[TeriDoodle]

Techgirl....do you take glutamine? I've been taking it since I started BFL and have experienced very little soreness while my husband has been really moaning about it (he didn't take it at first, but is NOW!). If you need more info, there's lots of it on this board about the benefits and dosages, etc. Let me know if need help finding it.

Welcome to the CLUB!! :)

[techgirl]

It hurts to type. Need I say more?
Also, I am retaining water like a giant sponge, has anybody experience this? I drank water yesterday but apparently not enought. :confused:

I am off to the gym to do cardio. I wish I did not have to do cardio, just weight training would be just fine with me.

Techgirl

[Natrushka]

Tech, muscles under repair will soak up water - water is what carries the nutrients and amino acids into your muscles. You should be drinking at minimum 2 litres a day and 2 cups prior to any weight training. The best way to counteract water retention is to drink more - it wont last long.

Nat

[TeriDoodle]

Nat, while we're on this subject maybe you could shed some light for me....

I'm in C1W2D2 and I've had little soreness....just enough to know that I've been working out, y'know? I definitely feel like I'm hitting the intensities I should be although I'm not lifting much weight. I do work the muscles to failure (which is, I assume, the point at which they won't do what you ask them to do) to reach my 10's.

So my question is: Do you think glutamine is that helpful (I'm taking 15 g/day) or am I just not working out to the intensities I should be? I wonder..........

Maybe I should look for a trainer to help get me started.....

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by TeriDoodle
So my question is: Do you think glutamine is that helpful (I'm taking 15 g/day) or am I just not working out to the intensities I should be? I wonder..........

It is THAT helpful, Teri.

You may want to get your hands on some good descriptions and maybe some videos online of how to perform the moves to ensure you are using correct form. You can see some online here 2-fit.com (http://www.2-fit.com/video/index.html) and at ExRx (http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html) (click on the exercise then choose the method). Often changing the degree of bend in your arm can make a world of difference.

But, the glutamine does make a huge difference - not only in soreness but in muscle wasting (it helps prevent it) and in the release of Human Growth Hormone in your body. It also helps keep your immune system bolstered.

You may find that you only feel that real soreness at the beginning of every 4 weeks when you've changed exercises. You can work on this by by watching form and emphasizing the eccentric part of your moves. The eccentric is the 'down' part - take it slower than normal, usually to a count of 3 or 4 and raise with a count of 2. For example, on a chest fly you would raise on a count of 2 and lower on a count of 4. Hold at bottom for count of 1 then raise on count of two. You'll feel a difference - this is also a good way to compensate if you do not have heavy enough weights for some exercises. Going slower is harder.

HTH
Nat

[TeriDoodle]

Great tips, Nat..... thanks so much!!!

[phoebe-tom]

I just have a question ...i haven't got the book yet for BFL but i'm confused as to how much protein either in percentage or in grams, i should be consuming each day.

I've read somewhere to try 40fat/40pro and 20 carbs and i'm not sure if thats what i should be aiming at.

Could someone help me????? :confused:

Many thanks

Phoebe

BTW i can feel it this week but i still feel fine.

[TeriDoodle]

I assume you're trying to adapt BFL to a LC nutrition program, right? If you're eating 1600 cals/day, the percentages you quote would be 71g of fat, 160g of protein and 80g of carbs. I think you'll do fine at those levels....don't you agree, Nat?

I'm in week 3 and have been trying to find the best carb level while keeping it as low as possible. So far I've found that I need about 50-60/day to maintain a decent energy level. I think Nat keeps hers at about 80, but then again, she works out more intently than I do. Why don't you shoot for 50-60 for a week or so and see how you feel. If you find yourself dragging a bit, or your workouts are sluggish, add a few more.

- Never eat those carbs without protein and fat at the same time.
- Definitely eat some carbs and vitamin C within 45 mins. of lifting to assist in glycogen recovery to your muscles
- After cardio, wait at least an hour before eating to give your body a chance to burn some fat while your metabolism is rev'd up.
- Spread your carbs out throughout the day

I"m sure Nat will answer you better than me, but that'll get you started.

Good luck to you!

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by TeriDoodle
I"m sure Nat will answer you better than me, but that'll get you started.

Nope, not really ;)

Phoebs, it's a matter of how you're going to be following the program. As written, BFL is low fat/lower carb, as we are following it here it is similar to Protein Power or Atkins at near maintencance level carbs.

We can give you all the input and direction required for a LC version of BFL, but for it as written I'd need to consult my book and / or the L&S website (www.leanandstrong.com).

Doing the program as Teri, Marlaine, Bobbie (homegirl), Lisaf, Ruth and I are, the advice Teri gave you is rigth on - go with it.

HTH
Nat

[missatc]

Am I correct in understanding that after WT training eat within 45', but after cardio, wait at least 1 hour? Is there any minimum wait time after wt training? Also, I will probably be doing more "toning" vs. wt training for my LBWO (see post under BFL) when should my meal come after that session?

Can't wait till Mon. to officially join the BBFLBC :hyper:

[missatc]

It seems I forgot a letter in the accronym. It's the: BMBFLBC! :D

[Natrushka]

Originally posted by missatc
Is there any minimum wait time after wt training? Also, I will probably be doing more "toning" vs. wt training for my LBWO (see post under BFL) when should my meal come after that session?

You can eat right after weight training if you wish - the 45 minutes is the length of time you should not go past. Your muscles are looking for protein after you've exhausted them, you do not want them looking to other muscles for this. You also want to get the carbs in to help control cortisol that is running through your body. This is also when you should take your anti oxidants (Vit C & E).

I'll address the toning vs. lifting question in your other post ;)

Nat

[missatc]

Thanks again, NAT!

I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate your time, not just responding, but all of the time you must spend researching and learning. You're a must in my fitness library. :)

[Natrushka]

KT, just think how educated you'll be at the end of your 12 weeks! The great thing about all this researching and learning is that you get to share it. This has become a slight obsession for me - being able to share and discuss it here is wonderful. My friends appreciate the forum as well - it means I can spare them ;)

Nat

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by missatc
It seems I forgot a letter in the accronym. It's the: BMBFLBC! :D

LOL

KT...That's Teri's version of the Club's name.

My version is simply:

Bodacious BFL Babes

BFL makes me feel GREAT. There is no mental anguish involved and very little physical pain. Thank goodness for L-glute!

Marlaine

[Marlaine]

Originally posted by Natrushka
This has become a slight obsession for me - being able to share and discuss it here is wonderful.

I have to say AMEN to that one! This is one obsession that I'm grateful for having been inspired to!

Marlaine

[TeriDoodle]

HA! Yeah, Marlaine... Nat helpled me with that one.... I was telling her how I *liked* being sore after working out and thought that was kinda sick. ;) Apparently I'm not the only one around here who enjoys that "pain"!!

Ya'll have a GREAT day!

[Marlaine]

Teri.....

LOL, Then maybe you could rephrase it so that it identifies YOU as the masochistic member...How about this?

Proud Masochistic member of the Bodacious BFL Babes

If anything, I think I'm a Hedonistic Bodacious BFL Babe!

Marlaine

[KndaFeisty]

What a fantastic post Nat! Thank you for taking the time! :clap:

[SusanKH]

Nat,
Two questions -
#1 - Do you think an overweight, middle-aged (how I hate that term), diabetic, hypothyroid woman like myself can do BFL and Low Carb?

#2 - I don't want to get real muscled - just slender and fit - is this a good program for me?

Thanks for your answers - and for sharing so much info - I lurk all of the time....
Susan

[Marlaine]

Hi there Susan......

I'm not Nat, but I was overweight, am middle-aged , with diabetic tendencies (it's in my family), and on thyroid medication. I'd have to say a resounding YES to your first question!

To the second question; women don't build muscle like men...we have to really make an effort to build bulging muscles so you don't need to worry about becoming too muscular.

The benefits of doing BFL and LCing will make you wish that you'd discovered both years ago! Go for it!! I know that you'll find lots of support in information here.

Marlaine

[SusanKH]

Thanks, Marlaine,
I've been looking at it and feeling somewhat intimidated, but I am determined to give it a try. I want a better body for the last half of my life than I've had the first half. I want, more than looking good, to feel strong and healthy, without starving.

[Marlaine]

Susan.....

I can understand the intimidation. When I began, I was at 200 pounds and had never lifted weights in my whole life. All that it takes is "attitude". If you haven't gotten the book yet, consider investing or borrow it from the library. Bill Philips does and excellent job of inspiration in the book. Besides that, you can start a Gym Log and get information and inspiration from some of the rest of us that have done BFL too. Check out the logs of Homegirl, Ruth, Nat, DivaDani, lisaf and mine, to name a few of us who have done BFL or are doing.

Marlaine

[SusanKH]

Actually, Marlaine, I have the book. I just need to dust it off and read it again. And I love reading the journals - don't they uplift you? I read lisaf's journal over on the Schwarzbein plan, and she is just so inspiring, even though or maybe because she 's not perfect. I'm doing Schwarzbein because I feel like, that for me and my medical conditions, her's is the best plan. I'm getting excited about trying BFL. Thanks for your encouragement.

[Natrushka]

Susan, I honestly believe that anyone can do it :) What have you got to lose but flab and fat, right? I wouldnt worry about becoming 'overly muscled' - women do not have the right hormonal profile for such natural development (it takes some un natural aide). Lifting heavy does not mean looking heavy.

Great to have you join us!
Nat

[Natrushka]

Bump. Updated with new info on supplements and workouts.

Nat

[Valerie J]

Hi Nat,

Thanks for the information. Just an extra question.

You say here:

"Protein requirements / needs will also vary - I would keep it at a minimum 1g per lb of LBM though. You do need to increase carbs – this kind of intensity cannot be done at a level of <20g of carbs a day. If you feel sluggish and tired and you’re doing everything else correctly then look to increasing your carbs."

Just wondering exactly how much you would up the carbs by?

I know that ona basic Atkins Induction you are to go no more than carbs and it is obvious that we need more when weight lifting, but is there any information about the correct balance of fat/protein/carbs?

What percentage of your total calorific intake in carbs and then what percentage is fat?

[Tiggerlou]

I found a very comfortable balance right around 30% fat, 40% carbs 30% protein. The workouts feel comfortable and so does all else.

[celtinore]

I picked up a copy of BFL yesterday, and I'm going to begin tomorrow (Monday). Thanks bunches and bunches to all of you, especially Nat for that highly informative Sticky! I'll probably be popping in with questions ... I ask lots of questions. ;)

We have a stationary weight machine (with cables), and it didn't feel like I was getting anywhere with that, so I switched to free weights ... but the book I had suggested a program that took me an hour and a half to do, and that's 90 minutes EACH for UBWO and LBWO -- plus it made no recommendation for aerobic activity. So I got a Pilates video -- HAH! Ever see a 288 lb woman try to do Pilates? Not a pretty sight, and I needed help getting off the floor! :lol: Then I saw where several people in the Fitness Challenge were using "The Firm" videos, so I went and got a set of those ... another mistake, as the pace was so fast, I couldn't keep up with the moves.

Sooooooo ... yesterday, I took ALL the videos (DVD's) to a store that buys used DVD's, and took my cash-in-hand to the bookstore and picked up BFL. Whew! Have I taken a winding road to fitness, or what? :D

Anyway, I could sure use all the advice you care to give ...

One question to start me off (told you, I'm full of questions) -- right now, here are the supplements I take every day:

A basic multivitamin
Super-B Complex (contains all the B's and C)
Cal-Mag-Zinc (also includes D)
Potassium (w/the multi, this gives me a total of 278 mg/day)

I know I should get some glutamine, and will while I'm out today. Can y'all think of anything else I should be taking? My multi, by the way, offers 75mg C and 60IU E per day.

Thanks again -- you guys are such an inspiration. Hope I do as well!

[phoebe-tom]

I was about to say how fab you're looking in your new pic but you've turned into a herd of Wilderbeast!!!

:wave:
Just thought i'd say Hello and I'm back AGAIN! Glad to see my inspiration is still here! :yay: (That's you by the way!)

Phoebe

[jenny v]

I have a question... I was sore last week when I did my arms...I was sore for a couple of days. I could not lift them. This week I was not sore is that bad. My muscles are just tired. This is my leg week... and my legs have been killing me. But I did my arms on wednsday and I didn' experience the pain I felt last week. Does this mean I my work out did not work as well to build muscle?

[jenny v]

Would peanut butter count as a meal with a banana in the BFL diet? or is that not enough protien?

[Piano]

Jenny, The first two weeks I did BFL I was really sore too. Now I can usually "feel it" a little afterwards. You're doin' fine. Peanut butter also has carbohydrates in it and bananas are high in carbs, so that isn't enough carbs. May need to add some protein powder or meat.

Piano

[inatic]

Hi I am new to your site but not to BFL . I play on another site as well.
I notice there is mention to look thru journal and gym logs , where can those be found?? I would like to see what others are eating while following a low carb wol.

Thanks!!

[Tiggerlou]

just click on the appropriate icon below that person's enrty!

[stilt0]

Nat, could you have a look at my post in the 'best of' forum 'scared to eat fat'. You seem to have a pretty good handle on gluconeogenesis. But while I'm here , I'd also like to pick your brains about how important insulin is to amino acid uptake . A couple of the biochem sites I've wandered across have mentioned that basically amino acid uptake is an insulin moderated process . I've been eating about 25g of carbs /day for the last 3 months , adequate protein and heaps of fat of all types and I was gradually losing lbm . Recently (about a week) I've started doing more serious weights , and I'm putting it back on . I can see it . I'm taking 3 gms of creatine /day What you say about cardio makes sense to me . I don't do it at all. Is there any reason to, apart from the one you mentioned about some curious concern about not being fair dinkum . In fact the reading I've been doing on the HGH release mechanism triggered by resistance exertion seems to suggest really short (say three very slow - one minute -reps of a particular exercise) sessions several times a day, every day. So this is what I've been doing. You don't even come close to working a sweat up. I just stop whatever I'm doing in the office or the workshop and swing or press ( l only do passive body weight excercises - handstands , pressups, pullups etc. ) for that three minutes. No sweat , but boy the heartrate goes up. What do you think of this very short , very frequent workout approach to building muscle. I'm not taking glutamine yet, but I probably will . I was a bit concerned about it's gluconeogenetic tendencies. As you've probably guessed, I'm a bit insulin phobic, but as far as I can understand the lower your insulin , the longer you'll live , All OTBEqual. It's that simple. That's why I L.Carb. I know it's working because I feel so much better ,even when I was losing the mass. But I'd rather be a hunk, so the weights are obvious. If the glutamine's not going to do me any insulin harm then I'll seize it's muscle building benefits withour hesitation.

A few of the body building sites I've checked out warn about not re-feeding high carbs a couple of days a week, because you WILL lose LBM . I'm not doing either , so they are wrong , but their reasoning seemed pretty plausible to me . Perhaps you can explain to me how you can do weights effectively with zilch muscle or liver glycogen and very low insulin .Insulin is claimed to be necessary for amimo acid uptake. I mean ,insulin is used as a supplementary anabolic hormone by some of these wackos. The price people will pay to lood good naked. I don't want to pay any price apart from 10 minutes of muscular discomfort every day, but hey, that just makes me feel more alive.
So can I put on muscle , keep it on and seriously low carb for life , without any health risks. What do you think?
Also are there any health risks in the low carb canon in using creatine. e.g. blood sugar , insulin spikes etc.?

cheers,
Stuart

[black57]

Thanks for the information. I had been stalled for a month now. I haven't been exercising rugularly. It really paid to check out this portion of the forums. It is going to save me some future torture.

Thank You Natrushka,
Black57

[Natrushka]

Bumping with updates

[LadyBelle]

wasn't this a sticky, or am I just nuts?

[Natrushka]

Yes, it was and you might be ;)

The BFL Hot Links! post is now the sticky and it has a link to this post along with a host of others.

Nat

[Deshukel]

Thanks Nat!

[Malishka31]

Did anyone get a BFL personal trainer? i am getting a trainer but i am doing atkins, i want to stay with atkins, but i want him as a trainer because he is good. Do you guys think it would be bad if i continued atkins and just used his training skills and chose not to follow the BFL nutrion plan he outlines.
I do know i would need to increase my carbs for the work outs, and i have been working out 1 hour a day as it is and adjusted the carbs for that. the trainer recommends eating starches and those EAS shakes, and i am not into the shakes becuase i dont like processed food.. well,i want to try and avoid it best i can.
ANy advice. ( i hope this post made sence)

[Lasha]

hi malishka
boy it's about time someone posted on here again!

i think my advice would be to get a trainer that is willing to work with you, and help you incorporate your own preferences.
i belong to the Y and any trainer there would be able to help me with my program, personalized as it is.
so maybe get a personal trainer, just not a BFL trainer - ?
i didn't know there was such a thing as a BFL trainer! :lol:

[Malishka31]

hey,
i am having the hardest time getting an appoitment with him so far so i dont really know the details.

the reason i say he is a BFL trainer is because thats the program he puts people on and he enters everyone into the contest, maybe he is just a plain trainer but puts people on bfl because he thinks it works the best?
umm i dunno,
i guess once i actually have my appoitment i can see what happens
but one thing for sure is i am not drinking shakes... especially after i had chem class, the list of ingredients just ewww.

[nets33]

I've been doing BFL without a trainer for a year and a half now. It is the best workout/eating program that I find works for me....

I did start BFL with a friend to show me the ropes and it was extremely helpful. If you can find a bfl-buddy or work a few time with the trainer to get you into the routine then give it a try.

I do use Whey protien powder but have not once used the EAS shakes - I do not beleive that they are necessary.

Good luck!
Kiks

[kbfunTH]

Malishka31, I believe either of these two trainers could help you, if you are not able to get in touch with the BFL trainer.

San Diego Trainers:

Sarah Lurie
sarah~ironcorelajolla.com
www.ironcorelajolla.com

Michael Castrogiovanni
mcgiovanni~hotmail.com
http://www.giryastrength.com/girya_kettlebell_classes_instructors.html#mike

[Malishka31]

Hey, So i finally met with my trainer, his name is Kirk Something.

Anyhow, all my orignal wants and plans kind of went out the window, and i decided to give him 1 week and just do what he wants. I kind of considered the fact that i paid a lot of money for him and that i need to trust him an just utlize him to the best of my ability.

Anyhow, i was stalled for about 4 weeks, teetertoring on 266. Its been 1 week with him and i am down about 7-9 pounds, (depending on the time of day i weight myself)
I never lost that much in one week, not even during induction.

I am using the shakes and the bars even though i swoke i wouldnt. But apparently eating more often and speeding up ones metabolism isnt a myth.

My calories are under 1000, but i am not hungry. Its mainly so low b/c i cut out added oils and i am eating mainly fish, just b/c i got tired of meat for now.

Anyhow, i am surprised how well its working so far, and that the bars didnt stall me.

I have 10 weeks and 6 days left, then i am going to vegas for 4 days, then when i come back i am going to start again with him for another 12 weeks.

I hope to drop 30 pounds in my 12 weeks which according to the trainer i caneasily accomplish and could even drop way more.

I will say , i am beyond thrilled with him, being around him is very pleasant and he is nothing like most of the trainers in the gym. He is really there with you every step of the way and pushes you to do more when you think you cant.
(sorry, i dont mean to advertise, but he is THAT good)

[Lasha]

great job malishka!
good luck with your goals for the 1st 12 weeks!!
let us know how things are going!!

[Malishka31]

hey!

i am cheking in , so i am 16 pounds down!
its been 4 weeks, ... well almost 4.
i have 8 weeks and 3 days left.
i need to loose 2.93 pounds per week to reach my goal.

[Davideb]

I would like to tweak the BFL plan.
I'm not interested on lowering carbs per se but on raising fats.
The BFL plan is too low fat to me and I believe that the nutritional quality of the fats eschewed in the BFL plan are actually very important healthwise
High fat fish is nutritionally better than low fat fish, whole eggs are nutritional better than egg whites, whole milk, yogurt and whole cottage cheeses are nutritionally better than low fat dairy food and so is butter.

But since Phillips have developed BFL putting together what is known to work better and faster I wonder how much BFL can be tweaked before compromising the great results the program followed to T gives.

That's my dilemma: if you raise the fat content of your diet you must decrease the carbohydrate content of your diet since protein of course should remain untouched.

But there are many evidences that carbohydrates are the preferred fuel for hard physical activity and losing fat while keeping muscle mass (especially with carb cycling) Both ketosis and lyposis are not fast and as much efficient pathways of energy supplies for physical activity, and there must be a reason if carb cycling supporters and high carb detractors like Venuto couldn't keep their mass and lost strenght, speed and concentration while on a very low carb diet for a sustained amount of time (months)

Also, I know people who eat nothing but meat and eggs and no carbs or 10 grams of carbs and are overweight and unfit. Because while fat is neutral to insulin proteins are not. Actually proteins raise insulin levels more than carbohydrates. For example eating beef raises fat storage insulin levels more than refined rice. Holt SA et al Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66:1264-76

Besides the most important factor of BFL (meal frequency) is known to mimic the effect of a low glycemic index and low insulin diet even if the carb intake is not very low. So while protein will keep forcing the body to release massive amount of insulin to store fat eating small and frequent meals (6 to 9) seems to be the only metabolic way to decrease insulin levels, post-prandial lipemia and post-prandial glycemia in spite of carb content.
Am J Clin Nutr 1970;23:1059-68/ N Engl J Med 1989;321:929-34/
Am J Clin Nutr 1993;57:446-51/
Am J Clin Nutr 1992;55:664-9/ Int J Obesity 1998;22:105-12/

Bottom line I know BFL works perfectly even if the amount of carb is moderate because of the above reasons, but I know that with the fat missing in BFL many important nutritional qualities are missed as well.

But I also know that raising the fat content will mean lowering the carb content while evidences suggest that for an active life style combined with hard strenous physical activity getting energy from carbs is better as they have a protein sparing effect and present metabolic advantages in glycogen replenishment. On the other hand ketones and fatty acids are not a reliable and a fast source of energy and muscular movements are highly decreased when the body must "wait" the lyposis and ketosis pathway to get energy.

What's a good compromise between higher fat intake for nutritional qualities and adequate carb intake not to compromise the advantage of getting most of the muscular energy from carbs?
Would getting all the calories you need for physical activities from carbs and all the calories you need for BMR from protein and fat make sense?

Thanks
D.

[sunshine2]

D - the person who started this thread was an expert on the subject, and I know she upped her fat and kept her carbs around 50, she completed 6 challenges I believe. Anyhow, she doesn't belong to the forum any longer.

I just started BFL on the 10th and completed my first week on day 9 now. I'm keeping my carbs around 30 - 40, my fat at about 30% of calories. I'm cutting back on some of the fat, but not all. I am grilling chicken, but might have some real mayo etc with it.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I think having some fat worked for some.

Are you doing the program? If so, is this your first Challenge?

[Davideb]

D - the person who started this thread was an expert on the subject, and I know she upped her fat and kept her carbs around 50, she completed 6 challenges I believe. Anyhow, she doesn't belong to the forum any longer.

I just started BFL on the 10th and completed my first week on day 9 now. I'm keeping my carbs around 30 - 40, my fat at about 30% of calories. I'm cutting back on some of the fat, but not all. I am grilling chicken, but might have some real mayo etc with it.

Sorry I can't answer your question, but I think having some fat worked for some.

Are you doing the program? If so, is this your first Challenge?

Thanks for your reply.
I would like to know whether the physiological reasons why a moderate/low carb diet is better than a very low carb diet for the BFL are supported by proven physiological facts and evidences.
If I remember right even Lyle Mcdonald said that 20/40 grams of carbs "may" not be enough to sustain streneous weight lifting activity without feeling letargic, tired, weak, spacey or passing out.

I'm actually asking from a "perfect results" point of view. In other words I know that almost all kinds of plan work and sustain our body but there are certain macro nutrients ratio, food ratio or calories cycling that are known to be the best choice for a specific goal we strive for. For example to have a dry look and maximum definition a very low carb diet is obligatory and almost all fitness athletes or bodybuilders get ready for the contest with some kind of low carb diet. To maximize the increment of lean body mass out of contest season an higher carb diet is almost necessary.

I asked this question for a friend of mine who is a low carber and doesn't know english and want to enter the BFL challenge. I've been following a paleodiet for the last 5 months and I think it is healthy (when enough veggies/fruits are consumed) but probably it's not the best plan to sculp your body and as a matter of fact I've never see a paleo eater who is very lean and fit. I'm even afraid that the paleodiet could have decreased my lean body mass and increased my fat mass. My friend convinced me to do the challenge with him and improve my body, strength and resistance.

How do you feel when you lift weights? Do you feel full of energy for all the 40/50 minutes or feel a bit tired somewhere along your workout? That's what worries me, that to get energy from fat and protein instead of carbohydrate may slow down muscle movement and decrease strenght and prevent the high points. Besides the importance of consuming high carbohydrates foods and protein and very few grams of fat after workout is well documented.

We can stay in touch and share our results along the challenge if you want

D.

[sunshine2]

Thanks for your reply.
How do you feel when you lift weights? Do you feel full of energy for all the 40/50 minutes or feel a bit tired somewhere along your workout? That's what worries me, that to get energy from fat and protein instead of carbohydrate may slow down muscle movement and decrease strenght and prevent the high points. Besides the importance of consuming high carbohydrates foods and protein and very few grams of fat after workout is well documented.

We can stay in touch and share our results along the challenge if you want

D.

D - in the beginning, I was feeling a bit sluggish, however, I was just eating M&E (meat & eggs), so I gradually added in some carbs, 5 g per day, and now I'm up to 39 carbs, with it being about 7 grams of fiber, around 32 Net carbs. I feel pretty good during my workouts, my goal is to work until complete exhaustion or hitting the "high point" in the BFL plan. The only area I'm seeing a problem is around 5:00 or so every afternoon, I'm wiped out. It might be because I'm getting up at 4:30 am and am usually at the gym by 5:30 - and I'm not getting in bed until around 11:00 or so at night. So my fatigue could be my lack of sleep. This is an area I'm trying to work on - getting more sleep.
My protein has been about 180 - 200 g per day, so I think I'm getting enough protein, but I'm still not sure about carbs. I'm still tweaking the program a bit, but I just cant go to eating a potatoe or rice as the program suggest. I've gained most of my carbs thru the protein drink I drink, the Betagen drink from EAS, and fresh spinach and sometimes 1/2 piece of fruit mixed in my protein drink. I also do some LC Yogurt/cottage cheese. My weight has been coming off slow, however, the inches are melting off. I actually am probably going to have a gain this week, but I have shrunk in inches so I'm still happy with the BFL program.
I have a friend who just completed the program, and she really looked awesome. She is doing her 2nd challenge now. Here is the link to her pics from challenge #1.
http://www.bodyforlife-tracker.com/showphotos.cfm?id=15910 - The bodyforlife tracker is a great tool too. However, they cringe at the thought of LC - so I don't post over there much. Another great link regarding LC and BFL is http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TPBodyforLife.html#tweak He talks about Porter Freeman limited his carbs on meal 2 & 4. His site is very interesting and this doc has personally done the program.
When do you think you are going to start the program? I would love to share the results and findings - you might start a journal under the bootcamp section.

[Davideb]

D - in the beginning, I was feeling a bit sluggish, however, I was just eating M&E (meat & eggs), so I gradually added in some carbs, 5 g per day, and now I'm up to 39 carbs, with it being about 7 grams of fiber, around 32 Net carbs. I feel pretty good during my workouts, my goal is to work until complete exhaustion or hitting the "high point" in the BFL plan. The only area I'm seeing a problem is around 5:00 or so every afternoon, I'm wiped out. It might be because I'm getting up at 4:30 am and am usually at the gym by 5:30 - and I'm not getting in bed until around 11:00 or so at night. So my fatigue could be my lack of sleep. This is an area I'm trying to work on - getting more sleep.
My protein has been about 180 - 200 g per day, so I think I'm getting enough protein, but I'm still not sure about carbs. I'm still tweaking the program a bit, but I just cant go to eating a potatoe or rice as the program suggest.

Indeed meat and eggs is not probably the best diet to sustain strenuous physical activity and convert fat mass to lean mass.
Are you drinking lot of water? You intake of protein is very high and dehydration could be part of the reason why you feel tired at 5:00.
You're probably right that your 5 hours of sleep per night are another reasons. Most of muscle growth/repair and fat burning happens while we sleep and it's not uncommon for weight lifting newbys to suddenly need 8-9 hours of sleep and feel like on a hangover with less.
As for the water intake I wouldn't listen to thirst, which has become a very wicked instinct in our modern world somehow, and would increase my intake of water nonetheless after all water is probably the most important muscle building and fat burning substance out there. A documented guideline for someone following a strenous physical routine is 1.0-1.5 ml per kg consumed.
That would equate to 65 to 100 ounces if you consume calories.
If you can work on the water and sleep factor you could know whether it's not enough carbs that is causing your fatigue. I would like to know as it would help me to tweak the program.

Other tweaks to the program I will make are:
consuming more carbs during the day consuming less carb during the evening and 0 carbs in my last meal
consuming way more carbs in the postworkout meals
taking two teaspoons of coconut oil daily
using my free day to refill with carbs and restore muscular glycogen


I've gained most of my carbs thru the protein drink I drink, the Betagen drink from EAS, and fresh spinach and sometimes 1/2 piece of fruit mixed in my protein drink. I also do some LC Yogurt/cottage cheese. My weight has been coming off slow, however, the inches are melting off. I actually am probably going to have a gain this week, but I have shrunk in inches so I'm still happy with the BFL program.
I have a friend who just completed the program, and she really looked awesome. She is doing her 2nd challenge now. Here is the link to her pics from challenge #1.
http://www.bodyforlife-tracker.com/showphotos.cfm?id=15910 - The bodyforlife tracker is a great tool too. However, they cringe at the thought of LC - so I don't post over there much. Another great link regarding LC and BFL is http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TPBodyforLife.html#tweak He talks about Porter Freeman limited his carbs on meal 2 & 4. His site is very interesting and this doc has personally done the program.
When do you think you are going to start the program? I would love to share the results and findings - you might start a journal under the bootcamp section.

You're right. Your friend transformation is wonderful! :thup:
Thanks for the interesting links, I will probably begin the program monday the next week and will plan my food and exercises and ratios these last 4 days

D.

[sunshine2]

D - well, I know water is not the problem, I drink 128 oz of water daily (gallon and sometimes more). I got a full 8 hours of sleep last night and didn't go do my workout this morning, however I did it on my 2 hour lunch break and I feel absolutely wonderful today. I even increased my weights this time, and feel like I had the best workout ever. So I'm leaning toward the sleep being deprived as the reason for me being sluggish.
I think that is an excellent idea about your last meal being -0- carbs. I've been trying to do that myself. I'm very anxious to get to week 4 and I will take my measurements and see the progress.