paleo diary-keepers?

[razzle]

hi folks. I'm posting here and in the candida forum, trying to find someone who keeps a food diary but eats dairy free (or paleo or anti-candida). I need to steal menu deas! Please let me know if you do keep a diary here so I can browse it.

Thanks in advance. :)

[captxray]

The reason I got into this diet was because I don't have to keep a diary. I'm looking at my "diet" as a way of life. I never plan to go back to the old ways. Dairy, bread and grains...anathema!! I love the fact that I don't count carbs, or cals, or any number of other things..

[Andy Davies]

Captxray, the more of your posts I read, the more I think we have a lot in common! Sorry Razzle, this must be disappointing for you, who want the reverse. Can't you simply adapt other people's diets to your own by extracting the bits you don't like?

Andy

[captxray]

:wave: Hey! You want a recipe??? I made one up over the weekend...and was it great! I got a big glass bowl...oven safe...and filled it with chopped summer squash, zuccinni, spinach, four eggs (beaten), celery, four small onions, five cloves of garlic, about 14 cup of extra virgin olive oil...stirred them all up in a gooey egg mess...put it in the oiled bowl, turned the oven on to 350 degrees...and layed bacon strips all over the top of it...put aluminum foil on top of the bowl...tight, and cook it for about 3 1/2 hours...what a meal!!! It was great, and I have enough for the rest of the week...

[razzle]

thanks guys. i did find some menus on a paleo site so had a sense of what people did eat over a day's time.

Actually, it was easier to go paleo than I had anticipated, but over two weeks of it had no effect on anything--the scale, how I felt, nada. I'm very blonde, which tends to predict a lack of lactose intolerance, so I've gone back to occasional cheese again.

[captxray]

:D
I said this on another thread. Give it at least 90 days before you give up on the entire paleo thing. You have to give your body time to adjust to a new (old) way of eating. It took me almost four weeks before I lost a pound. 31 pounds as of today and I've been on it for four and half months. Don't give in to dairy, if you can help it...If you are going paleo, dairy isn't part of it...nobody milked bison, or mastodons, as far as we can tell. If you choose to go along with the whole paleo idea, then you will find out how bad dairy is...lots of stuff we, as humans aren't supposed to put in our systems.

[Andy Davies]

Hi, Captxray,

Like you, I do not drink cows' milk. But I do consume other dairy products. I do eat cheese and butter, and occasionally cream (double or whipping). As I see it, the real enemy is refined carbohydrates and sugar, not cheese and cream. One of the authors whose work I follow would not have allowed these things, but the other does. I like them, and see no harmful effects from using them, except that you have to watch and control quantities. I think you have to be bold enough to vary dietary regimes to suit your own tastes and needs.

Andy

[captxray]

:clap:
Food for thought, Andy. Ha! Ha! However, I've been reading up on dairy and have found that it really is bad for us in its many manifestations...but whatever turns your merry-go-round. For me, notice, I said, "ME."...I've decided to be a real hunter and gatherer...at the supermarket. However, I don't go naked with my sharp stick...UGH! I just had a mental picture of that one. I would deserve to be arrested if I did that! Even beef isn't that great for us, because feed lot cattle are fed that really bad..bad..bad...dare I say it?...CORN!!! AWK! Full of lectins that can kill us!!! However, I just don't have time to go out and spear a deer or a moose or a caribou...so, I have made adjustments, too. My brother is on Atkins and eats cheese and is doing great. Just not for me. We all need to find our "happy medium" and follow our star. Cheese isn't nearly as bad as...I have a hard time saying the word...GRAINS!!!! Have you seen the sludge they create in the bowels? Peanuts, too. Of course, peanuts aren't really nuts, they are members of the dreaded BEAN family...loads of lectins there, too.

[Andy Davies]

Hi Captxray,

Interesting, I didn't realise that peanuts were beans...that explains a lot - I find peanuts rather addictive, and they give rise to wind (or "gas" as you call it) and can be laxative in excess.

I agree with your other conclusion: we all find our own final combination by a mixture of trial and error, other people's experiences, and what we read. No two people are exactly alike, and neither are their exact needs identical. And that is the great beauty of this forum - we learn and teach, we listen and speak, and gradually we all make progress.

Best wishes,

Andy

[foodie212]

Hi Razzle! If you're still looking for menu ideas, i'll be happy to post a daily food journal here. Also since i love to cook and experiment with recipes and menus, i'll be happy to post some of the stuff i've come up with or found and tried.

foodie <------ you bet! :wave:

[foodie212]

Originally posted by captxray
:wave: Hey! You want a recipe??? I made one up over the weekend...and was it great! I got a big glass bowl...oven safe...and filled it with chopped summer squash, zuccinni, spinach, four eggs (beaten), celery, four small onions, five cloves of garlic, about 14 cup of extra virgin olive oil...stirred them all up in a gooey egg mess...put it in the oiled bowl, turned the oven on to 350 degrees...and layed bacon strips all over the top of it...put aluminum foil on top of the bowl...tight, and cook it for about 3 1/2 hours...what a meal!!! It was great, and I have enough for the rest of the week...


Hey, congratulations Captxray, you've discovered ... ta da! ... the Frittata :D A.K.A. "extreme omelet."
i usually bake frittata in a big cast iron skillet (be sure to put some bacon grease in the bottom first). Using a wide pan like that considerably shortens the cooking time -- usually takes only about half an hour at the most. You can "finish" it by removing the lid and broiling the frittata for a couple of minutes. Yummy stuff!

foodie :wave:

[captxray]

:roll:
Hi, Foodie,
I've changed some of the original recipe since I wrote that. I now cook everything in a large pot, put in bacon, and pepperoni, stir my eggs with the olive oil until it is a slurry and put the veggies and bacon and pepperoni into the pan in layers with the egg mixture poured all over the layer. Then I put in the next layer and do the same thing. On Easter, I fed it to my daughter and her fiance and they loved it, too. It only had to cook for about 1/2 hour in the 350 degree oven, as it was already pretty well cooked when i put it in. I had no idea it was called a frittata! Imagine, ME making something that actually has a real culinary name! I have just been calling it "Ray's Healthy Pot-O-Junk." I also make a mean salad dressing that everybody has been raving over...I can't believe this one, either. I use 1/2 cup water, 1/2 cup lemon juice, 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil. Into that I put a 1 cup combination of finely chopped raw pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, almonds, walnuts, and sunflower seeds. I also add a tablespoon of Louisiana Hot Sauce, a tablespoon of salt, a teaspoon of black pepper, 1/4 cup of bottled chopped garlic, 1 tablespoon of onion powder, a tablespoon of dried parsley, a tablespoon of dried Italian Seasoning mix, a tablespoon of dried pesto seasoning. People are telling me I ought to bottle it and sell it. I don't know about that, but I sure like it. I pour it onto my salad made from spinach leaves, romaine lettuce, cucumber slices, and chopped scallions, sprinkled with raw pumpkin seeds, almonds, and walnuts. Sometimes, I forget to eat the rest of my meal! Meat is secondary to it! What's really surprising is I am losing weight doing this!

[foodie212]

Originally posted by captxray
:roll:
Hi, Foodie,
I've changed some of the original recipe since I wrote that. I now cook everything in a large pot, put in bacon, and pepperoni, stir my eggs with the olive oil until it is a slurry and put the veggies and bacon and pepperoni into the pan in layers with the egg mixture poured all over the layer. Then I put in the next layer and do the same thing. On Easter, I fed it to my daughter and her fiance and they loved it, too. It only had to cook for about 1/2 hour in the 350 degree oven, as it was already pretty well cooked when i put it in. I had no idea it was called a frittata! Imagine, ME making something that actually has a real culinary name! I have just been calling it "Ray's Healthy Pot-O-Junk." I also make a mean salad dressing that everybody has been raving over...I can't believe this one, either. I use 1/2 cup water, 1/2 cup lemon juice, 1/2 cup extra virgin olive oil. Into that I put a 1 cup combination of finely chopped raw pumpkin seeds, sesame seeds, almonds, walnuts, and sunflower seeds. I also add a tablespoon of Louisiana Hot Sauce, a tablespoon of salt, a teaspoon of black pepper, 1/4 cup of bottled chopped garlic, 1 tablespoon of onion powder, a tablespoon of dried parsley, a tablespoon of dried Italian Seasoning mix, a tablespoon of dried pesto seasoning. People are telling me I ought to bottle it and sell it. I don't know about that, but I sure like it. I pour it onto my salad made from spinach leaves, romaine lettuce, cucumber slices, and chopped scallions, sprinkled with raw pumpkin seeds, almonds, and walnuts. Sometimes, I forget to eat the rest of my meal! Meat is secondary to it! What's really surprising is I am losing weight doing this!


YUM !!!! You could write a cookbook! "Ray's Healthy Pot-O-Junk" sounds so delicious and that salad dressing -- WOW -- definitely you should look into marketing that. Gourmet salad dressings are to die for. Or maybe you could sell the recipe to Paul Newman :D Nah, he'd just ruin it by changing the olive oil to canola oil -- i was reading labels in the grocery store a few days ago and picked up a bottle of Newman's Own Olive Oil Balsamic Vinaigrette -- guess what the main ingredient was? CANOLA OIL.

What do you call your salad dressing?

Well, anyway, it sounds like a winner, and i hope you seriously consider trying to find a bottler for it.

Have a great weekend!


:wave: foodie

[captxray]

:roll:
I just had my fifty-fifth birthday celebration on the weekend...I'm now officially a senior citizen! Where did the years go? Anyway, We had 11 people over to the house and everybody brought something (potluck), but they knew that I would only eat certain foods...My wife barbecued a brisket all day long (marinated in a lemon juice concoction with spices[no sugar]), we had my salad and salad dressing (everybody took seconds, and some even took thirds!), steamed brocolli, pineapple and fresh strawberries, a lady brought the best veggie tray (asparagus, brocolli, jicama strips dipped in chili powder and lemon/lime juice, cauliflower [which I don't eat], baby carrots, celery, etc...), and some other things I could eat. They also brought a wonderful french bread (I don't eat bread), butter (I don't eat butter-dairy...ugh! Yuk! Even though I love butter), a desert I didn't eat and a rice dish I didn't touch, even though it looked quite good (I just don't eat any grains or nightshades...except a little chii powder). It was wonderful. I ate to my heart's content (all the things I can eat on my WOE), and so did everybody else (there were enough "normal foods" so that nobody felt "deprived"). Everybody commented on how "healthy" the dinner was and how much they all liked it. See? We can eat our foods and not even stand out in a crowd, if we orchestrate it properly.

As far as a name for my salad dressing (?) HMMMM...I know! "Neandernut Pot-O-Junk All Natural Healthy No Bad Stuff Dressing"

[foodie212]

Hey, Happy Birthday Ray! Wow that dinner party sounds yummy! My hubby and i are almost officially senior citizens too -- AARP has been sending us all sorts of brochures and a few days ago membership cards arrived! Does this mean i have to dye my hair blue? Does hubby have to start wearing plaid pants and take up golf?! :D

O please ask your wife if i may please have her recipe for that barbecued brisket with the marinade! That sounds so great!

:roll: May you both keep rollin' along for many happy -- and healthy -- years to come!


foodie :wave:

[foodie212]

Originally posted by captxray
As far as a name for my salad dressing (?) HMMMM...I know! "Neandernut Pot-O-Junk All Natural Healthy No Bad Stuff Dressing"



AH HAHAHAAA! Love it! Especially the "Neandernut" part -- very clever!

[captxray]

Hi, Foodie!

Thanks for the B/D happies. I'm actually pretty depressed today. I can't believe I'm actually that old and nothing that I really ever planned has happened. I'm never going to be rich. I'll never be famous...not that I ever really wanted that. I'll never make much of a mark on the world...however I have four daughters, all grown and productive members of society...one is pregnant with our first grandchild, one is finishing her PhD, one is almost a Captain in the Air Force, one is getting married and attending college and opening her first Art Exhibit/Show...well, actually...that's not so bad, huh? Maybe I'm just being self-indulgent and should stop this crap! Hey! 55 is better than the alternative!

I'll try to get my wife to give me the recipe for the marinade and the brisket. It was really good! Tonight I'm having left-overs.

[Dandi]

captxray and any others on the paleolithic WOE:

What do you generally eat at each of the three daily meals, especially for breakfasts? And do you usually snack between meals?

We had eggs for breakfast today. Each of us (my husband and I) had a snack mid-morning of fruit. Then a large salad for lunch, with chicken in it. A snack of nuts and seeds at mid-afternoon. Then we're going to have another large salad for dinner with beef in it and some vegetables that were cooked yesterday with the meat. Does that sound similar to what some of you are eating?

I felt really good and energetic during our four mile walk early morning. Then I had a real energy crash after eating the fruit. But I recovered after eating lunch. My husband's medical test on May 16th showed his triglycerides are a little high (220, and should be 200) so we're thinking we need to cut down on the fruit. Have any of you had a similar experience with fruit? The fruit was banana too -- doesn't grow locally -- couldn't have gone out and got it for ourselves in the bush.

Dandi

[foodie212]

Originally posted by Dandi
captxray and any others on the paleolithic WOE:
What do you generally eat at each of the three daily meals, especially for breakfasts? And do you usually snack between meals?
We had eggs for breakfast today. Each of us (my husband and I) had a snack mid-morning of fruit. Then a large salad for lunch, with chicken in it. A snack of nuts and seeds at mid-afternoon. Then we're going to have another large salad for dinner with beef in it and some vegetables that were cooked yesterday with the meat. Does that sound similar to what some of you are eating?
I felt really good and energetic during our four mile walk early morning. Then I had a real energy crash after eating the fruit. But I recovered after eating lunch. My husband's medical test on May 16th showed his triglycerides are a little high (220, and should be 200) so we're thinking we need to cut down on the fruit. Have any of you had a similar experience with fruit? The fruit was banana too -- doesn't grow locally -- couldn't have gone out and got it for ourselves in the bush.
Dandi


Hi Dandi. I just rec'd an email notification that you had posted something in this thread (which is weird because i have my settings here toggled to NOT receive email notifications! LOL) At any rate, this is the first time in a lonnnng time anybody's written anything here, and i haven't been here in quite a while since it appears that the forum is dead/deserted. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. There is a more active Neanderthin/Paleonutrition forum over at lowcarbeating.com. Can't think of the exact url at the moment but feel free to email me (serious212 at yahoo.com) and i'll find that link for you.

As far as your questions and eating plan, that sounds very similar to most of the ones i've read that other people are doing, but if you're experiencing that sort of energy drop after eating fruit, then you certainly might want to consider omitting fruit for a while, or go for the lower-glycemic fruits, such as berries. Or, if you really like bananas and other sweet fruits, save them for a late-evening/bedtime snack.

Best wishes!
Foodie

[captxray]

Maybe we can get this thread active again! Foodie212, I would like to get that address, too. It gets a little lonely, here, at times. These Atkins people don't really understand our "primitive ways."

Dandi, I cut fruit and nuts out of my diet for a while, based upon what you said about your husband's triglycerides, and I've already dropped the two pounds I gained back almost five weeks ago...I'm going to keep at this over the weekend and see if I notice any other difference. I really love the fruit...and nuts...but we'll see. I know it must be something that has caused this plateau. I do not snack...until nighttime...late...then I eat fruit...or nuts. I think, not a good idea...I suspect that you may have a slightly allergic reaction to bananas. I do something with my clients called, "Applied Kinesiology," or the "Muscle Response Test." This test has been proven to be about 90% as effective as the Cytotoxic Blood test that doctors give and charge about $800 for around here. Besides, that test is invasive, in that they stick all sorts of possible allergins into your skin...The Muscle Response Test came to this country with the chiropractors and acupuncturists after the U.S. contact with China back in about 1972. It's very easy and I would be glad to explain it to you if you are interested. My wife (also a therapist) and I have done it with people as a type of "double blind" and it works, every time! People are sometimes, absolutely amazed at the results.

[Dandi]

Hi Foodie and captxray,
Thank you for your posts.

Foodie, I do visit lowcarbeating and did register there. So I will likely be posting there too. However, captxray's posts have been very helpful to my husband and I. I really would like to see this thread going well, with lots of inspiration and information. So I hope you'll continue to post here as well as at lowcarbeating.

captxray,
We are familiar with the Muscle Response Test, taught to us by a chiropractic doctor in Yakima, WA who was trained in it. Thanks for reminding me of it.

I cut out all fruit immediately after getting that energy crash. I've decided I'll eat raw vegetables instead. It seems that health is a matter of balance. If a person eats too much of one type of food for a while, then he or she gets out of balance and has to adjust the other way. So no matter how good or natural the food is, if the body gets too much of that type there is a problem until balance is regained.

I look forward to learning much from each of you. Is the Audette book about the best to read on the paleo diet?

Dandi

[captxray]

I have been re-reading Audette's book and he says the main thing to cut back on is fruit if you find weight loss slowing...he says to keep at the nuts, and meat and fat, and veggies, but to try fruit with less sugar, etc,., and eat less of that, too. I did, and voila! I've lost weight! I'm two pounds lighter than I was when I hit the wall five weeks ago! Only 55 more to go! Hey! That's my age! I've started eating melon, and love it, and it hasn't effected my body like the others. Also, ate an apple last night. I am staying away from my home-dried prunes, and apples. As long as you only eat the same amount as you would if were fresh, no problem. But, I love to eat them like candy...bad...bad...bad.

I would say, for a good read, interesting, and fact-filled, Audette's book is the best. There are others, too, but Ray Audette makes it the most interesting, and easiest to read. I wish his index was better, but all things consdered, Yes, I would say it's the best. He also has a very extensive bibliography, so you can check some of his sources.

I'm impressed! You actually know about the muscle response test!? That's great! You're the only other people in ten years who've known about it. It is one of the best-kept secrets of the meduical community (who obviously don't want us to know about it...they lose money when we do it ourselves).

[tamarian]

Hi guys, I'm lurker here in the paleo section. My book order is on it's way hopefully soon.

But I'll have to delurk and ask, what is the "Muscle Response"?

TIA

Wa'il

[captxray]

Hi, tamarian!

Well, others read our posts! I thought that nobody on Atkins cared a wit for this WOE. The Muscle Response Test, or Applied Kinesiology is a simple way to test yourself and your friends and family for "allergic" reactions that your body is having to certain things. I've used it to test for food allergies, people allergies (people that the other person was having a bad reaction against even when they didn't think they were), certain types of clothing (fabrics and synthetic threads, etc.), even a negative reaction that one lady was having to a garnet she had hung around her neck for years (it was making her very weak)...using it, along with a simple method for rejuvenating a person's blocked energy fields has worked wonders with some of my clients and friends. I know, it sounds very New Age, but it really works! For example the woman with the garnet was having diffculty with her energy...she was always tired, and run-down. I asked her about the garnet around her neck. She said, "My garnet? Oh, I never take it off! I would feel naked if i took it off. I always wear it." I had her remove it. We removed all of our jewelry, and watches, etc. I had her raise her right arm and I clasped her wrist just behind the bone that sticks out on the side (I believe it's the ulna[?]) with my left hand. I had her think of the sky and close her eyes. I asked her to hold against my downward arm pressure when I said, "Hold." I said, "Hold." I waited for about a second to give her a chance to set the arm against my pressure. Then (because I knew that the garnet was the problem), I used my pinky finger against the pressure she tried to exert against me. Her arm dropped...She said, See!...I'm so weak." I did three passes...another long, drawn out description which I will be glad to explain if you're interested...and, Voila! She was so strong that I couldn't push her arm down with my arm (unless I really pushed hard!). She was amazed. We were not through yet. I had her think of the sky again. My wife took the garnet (unbeknownst to the lady) and put it in her auric field, right behind her back about five inches away from her body. I asked her to "Hold." You guessed it...it dropped like she had a lead weight on her arm. When she turned around to see her garnet so close she was blown away. I have even used it with my wife holding pictures of the offending foods, or people, or alcohol, or cigarettes, etc., behind the person's back. It works every time. Go figure. Our bodies are much more in tune than we realize. OOOWEEEEOOOO! Spooky, huh? Well, it just goes to show us that our bodies "Know" what they need. We just need to pay attention, more.

[tamarian]

Thanks captxray,

So this works with allergies to objects/substances from the example you gave. Since you can experiment with the object in the proximity or awy to compare muscle reaction 9except for tiny airborne particles like pollen?). Does it work on food allergies as well?

Wa'il

[Dandi]

captxray,
Thanks for the helpful info. I will get Audette's book. I can always index it and learn more while doing so.

I'm learning that the key to weight loss is just to up the low-carb vegetables and cut down on all/any other foods. That's what I've finally done each time I've plateaued and it has worked. I hope that when I plateau in the future I immediately realize what needs to be done, and do it!

tamarian,
Thank you for unlurking on this thread. I, for one, really hope this thread becomes very active. My husband and I need it to do so because we need healthy eating and weight loss now, for health's sake. We need all the inspiration and information we can get.

My husband is down to within a 2-5 pounds of the weight that he weighed up to the age 40. I still have more to go, but I hit 57% of desired weight loss this morning. Feel like I'm running downhill now. And I may be closer than 57%, because I'm not sure exactly what weight I should weigh. Somewhere between 125# and 110#. I'll know when the spare tire is gone.

Dandi

[captxray]

Dandi!!! I haven't tried your technique for breaking the plateau. I will try it , today. I just can't really seem to get going after I reached the fifty pound mark...my body has just kind of stayed in the tree pound range, up or down for weeks! I thought I had finally broken through, but now I'm not sure. Now, all you do is cut back on other stuff and raise the amounts of your leafy greens? I'm gonna try that and see what happens. I've started riding my bike to work and back...about a round trip of 16 miles. Thanks for the great idea! Wow! Congratulations on 57 pounds...that's a real accomplishment!

tamarian: Yes, it works for food allergies, really well. That's how I got started doing it. I would find that some of my psychotherapy clients had endogenous depressions for no apparent reason, or, in my case, hypoglycemic symptoms, or others had endogenous anxiety or anger. I even found someone with lupus, and onother with MS. I begin to ask them if we could test them for food allergies, and did it on myself, too. We found amazing results. What I found, over 20 years ago, was that almost everybody, and I mean almost everybody is "allergic" to wheat products, rice, and other grains...some way more than others. I found that when people eat the same foods all of the time, they build up "allergies" to these substances...doesn't matter what it is. We, as humans, are omnivores...that means that we need to eat a wide variety of foods...but no grains! We weren't designed for grains...or dairy. I find very few people who can tolerate dairy, or grains. Although, I must admit, I have found a few for either...they are just people with a strong constitution, I think. What I also found was that people with these autoimmune disorders, ie., obesity, MS, Lupus, Rheumatoid Arthritis, and a few frontal lobe disorders, like ADHD, Schizophrenia, Tourettes Disorder, Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, and others are probably somewhat realted to food "allergies." Gotta go!

[Dandi]

Interesting posts above.

Do people ever get allergic to meat or fish or to leafy greens? I do know that some people's systems do not handle meat well. Dr. Henry Bieler wrote, in Food is Your Best Medicine, that he didn't eat meat for that reason. And I have read so many times that some people get over-proteinized and have to cut back or cut out the meat until they get their systems in balance again. But is that an allergic reaction or not?

Yesterday I was reading on one of the paleo-eating sites and came across an article about allergies among people who are eating bugs (crickets, meal worms, etc.). Definitely some allergies showing up with some people when eating those items.

Oh, captxray, that was 57 per cent of weight loss on way to my projected goal, not 57 pounds. I wish it were 57 pounds, I'd be at my projected goal right now. But as it is, I have 24 pounds to go unless I decide I've reached normal weight before that projected goal.

Let me know if the increase in leafy greens works for you, to start the weight loss again. It certainly has for my DH and myself when we hit a plateau. I think we get to eating a little too much of the concentrated foods. They taste so good! And many times it is more convenient to grab some of them instead of taking time to make a salad. The weight loss is a good test. If we quit losing, then we can cut down on the concentrated foods and up on the low-carb veggies.

Dandi

[captxray]

Hi, Dandi...
I have had some people who showed an "allergic" reaction to meat...never to fish, or to leafy greens (hmmmmm, interesting...I never noticed or realized that before). What we found, upon further detective work, was the people were not having an allergic reaction to the meat, per-se, they were having an allergic reaction to the grains and chemicals that the meat had been fed just before killing and butchering...especially corn (bad enough for you by itself, but now with genetic splicing of corn [which is not usually fed to humans, but fed to our animals ([dogs, cats, ruminants], which causes many problems for humans because we are at the top of the food chain...ie., concentrated forms of various things like jelly fish genes, and poison ivy genes, etc. because it is more resistive to bugs, and fungus')). It also depends on what part of the animal you're eating. If you eat a lot of (YUK!) liver or some of the organ meats, you can get very high concetrations of certain vitamins (ie., oil soluable, like vitamin A). This will cause a possible toxic problem, at times. As far as crickets and mealworms, I'll bet they were fed cornmeal before they were consumed...just like snails for that French Delicacy. I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't the crickets or the mealworms they had the allergic reaction to, but the corn (that same old nemisis). One of the major problems in Meso-America is pelegra which is caused by eating unprocessed cornmeal and other corn products on such great quantities. Remember, we and the animals we eat, are what we eat. I have found, though, when all is still considered, there are still a few out there who have a negative reaction to meat...my second-oldest daughter, for example. She has a bad reaction to all red meat, even the "organically grown, non corn-stuffed" kind. She does great with leafy green veggies, nuts (for her Omega-3 fatty acids), fish and fowl. What makes it great is that we are all so similar, yet so different. Go figure. I have never personally known a strict vegan who was truly healthy. Most of the time they have one of the autoimmune disorders (which they will tell you, to their dying day, was not caused by the diet...mainly grains). I've heard the George Barnard Shaw was a strict vegan. He lived to be in his 90s. I'm sure there are some who do well on a diet that would kill the rest of us. How else would the species survive, if we suddenly went to a different diet?

[Dandi]

As I said before, and will likely say again, I think a lot of problems with specific foods is because we've gotten ourselves off balance -- generally by eating too much of that food type. Then we have to go without it until we get the excess or results of the excess out of our systems. But then, in time, we may need to add that food (to some extent) back into our diets in order to stay balanced.

I think a lot of Americans today, including myself, have gotten ourselves off balance by eating too many sweets. And this is very likely associated with eating grains. They seem to set us up for wanting to eat sweets. And the result is the hypoglycemic reaction that so many of us are prone to today.

Yes, I think, too, that it is difficult to stay really healthy on a no-animal foods WOE. Most of the well-known writers who didn't eat meat or fish did eat eggs, cheese, yogurt or milk. Soy products are getting alot of bad press in certain circles these days, which is doubly interesting to me after they've been lauded to be the protein-answer for vegetarians.

It is interesting that you couldn't think of anyone who had an reaction to the leafy greens.

We feel very fortunate that the local natural foods store is carrying a lot of fresh produce and at very good prices. It is only about three blocks from our home. A perfect place for "gathering".
They carry chicken raised without hormones/antibiotics too, but too spendy for our budget. So we'll have to do our "fishing" and "hunting" at the regular stores.

I still haven't gotten the Audette book. Book stores were closed Monday, of course. Neither of the two stores I was at today carry it. Maybe tomorrow I'll see if either of the other book stores carry it. Otherwise, I'll order the book.

Dandi

[captxray]

I sure do agree with you, Dandi, about the "off balance" stuff. Soy is being found to be even worse for people than most of the other beans, except limas and favas. Limas and favas can have most of the bad stuff cooked out of them, but not soy or its' by-products (tofu, oil, etc.). Canola has gotten a lot of bad press...most of which is untrue...my jury is still out on it. Well, I'm not feeling too good after my new strenuous exercise program has kicked into high gear, so it's off to my trundle bed. Audette's book is well- worth the wait. Good Eating!

[Dandi]

captxray,
The Audette book is now ordered, from Interlibrary Loan. I intend to buy my own copy but at least have a copy to read on its way to me.

How long does it take you to do the 16 miles?

Rain here all day, so we didn't walk our 4 miles. We did go to the library booksale. It was the last day so a bag of books cost one dollar. Among other books, I bought a copy of The Story of Man and His Food by C.C. and S.M. Furnas (husband and wife???). It is an old book, 1937. There are some things in it I do not agree with but there's a lot of thought-provoking information too. I've read about half of the book so far and have found it worthwhile.
The authors begin with the diet, hunting and gathering practices of ancient man and then work their way down through history.
Both my husband and I are interested in history, plus being interested in what makes for the best nutrition today.

A few weeks ago I probably would have passed by this particular book. Because of the paleo WOE it caught my eye and has been a good read for a rainy day.

Dandi

[captxray]

Over on this side of the Cascades, it has been gorgeous. Got our garden planted today...my wife insisted on two types of bush beans...oh, well. I'll have fun eating the squash and carrots, radishes, lettuce, and beet greens...that book you found sounds interesting. It takes me 25 minutes to ride into town in the morning (8 miles) and 28 minutes to come home at night (8 miles, again!). Compared to my triathalon days (about 20 years ago when I was an "Iron Man") I am slow as molasses and look like an overstuffed bratwurst ready to explode out of the skin.
How long does it take you guys to walk the four miles? Fifty five more pounds to go!

[Dandi]

captxray,
My husband is impressed with your accomplishments. And he said that riding 8 miles in 28 minutes sounded pretty good, that you must be in good shape.

We walk about a 17 minute mile. Though it seems to me that we have been speeding up. We walk to the church for mass each morning. That is one mile. Then we walk an oblong route along, and then parallel to, Hwy 101 which works out to 3-4 miles depending on where we cut off to come home. We're trying to get in 10,000 steps each day, including steps besides those we make on our morning walks. Some afternoons we walk to the post office too and that adds another mile. We've been leaving the car parked a lot. Our gas expenses for the car have dropped to very little.

While we were walking this morning my husband said he felt so good, he felt on top the world. And that makes me happy to hear because feeling energetic and good is a sign of health. I feel like we're doing ourselves a lot of good.

And now, he has a large salad, with pesto and avocado, waiting for me so I must go.

Dandi

[captxray]

Good for the two of you! Do you live on the coast? Walking is the best exercize there is for the human body. Thanks to your DH for saying that I must be in good shape. However, I must differ a bit. When I was an althelete, I was in good shape. Now, I'm just a fat, bearded, long-haired, out-of-shape, old man, making a fool of himself on his 20 year old one-time-state-of-the-art bike, who looks like an overstuffed burrito in his 20 year old biking clothes. But, I plan to look better, feel better, and be better in the ensuing months. I can hardly wait to see Thousand Island Lake with Banner Peak rising up from it in July! I first hiked there 42 years ago. It's been over 30 years since I was last there. To me, it's the most beautiful place I've ever been to (and I've been to the South Pacific islands...more than one! and Yosemite Valley, and the Grand Canyon, and...and...the Oregon Coast...and...). I never thought I would be able to go there, again. Now, I've got a real goal!

Time to eat my Kippered Snacks and drink about a quart of water!

[Dandi]

captxray,
We know well the "glory" of past days. Twenty years ago we ran 29 runs in one year. My DH ran a 7 minute mile as a Masters. I, due to respiratory damage from bulbar polio, ran only a 12 minute mile -- but sometimes, in my 40s, beat a 19 or a 35 year old male to the finish line -- because they ran themselves out early in the race. And it was a lot of fun!

And we hiked a multitude of mountain trails, etc. But we let our selves get too used to the easy chair and sweets and indoor activities. So now we have to rebuild health and find some outdoor activity we both enjoy.

But we too are setting some goals. We're looking for some fun runs on the coast, that we might walk, this summer or next. We don't want to get back into running, but we do need more activity.

Goals are extremely important!!

Dandi

[captxray]

Dandi, and anyone else out there lurking who may have read about my 8 miles in 25 minutes....I told my wife that your DH said that I must be in good shape to be making the eight mile bike ride in 25 minutes...To make a long story short, she about fell off her chair, laughing at me! I looked at her with an incredulous expression. She said, "You dolt! (her words of endearment...I know she loves me!) It's only 4 1/2 miles to downtown from here! The round trip is 9 miles!" DUUUUUUHHH! Oh, yeah....I forgot...uh....I guess I really am in terrible shape, huh?...let's see...4 1/2 miles in 25 minutes...that's about 10.8 mph!!! AAAAGH! I didn't think much about the 25 minutes for 8 miles, because I used to be able to do that so much faster... But...10.8MPH! 5.5 minute miles!!!! AAAAHGHGHG! I am so out of shape, it's disgusting!!!!! No wonder people laugh uproariously at me as I tool down the road in my out-of-date-biking clothes on my out-of-date-bike, with my aerodynamic helmet (like I need that!) and my beard, long hair, and belly about to explode through my clothes like a swollen carcass on the side of the road! I'm committed now! I may look funny, now, but wait and see!!! By the end of summer I will be getting back into some semblance of shape...I am even more committed to keeping to this WOE and WOL, now!!!

[Heather]

Howdy fellow cave dwellers! Just wanted to chime in to let you know that there's one more to support you!

I changed my profile today to Paleo from LC. I read "The Paleo Diet" and am pretty much there now.

Had a question about vinegar. In the book it says that wine and beer is ok if it's already in your diet. Because, the cave folks probably had some some sort of fermented berry juice that was a lot like wine. Now, if that's true, you know some of the cases of wine had to turn to vinegar at some point, right? So, why doesn't the book say that vinegar is ok as a dressing. All the dressings have lemon juice in them. Just wondering if anyone can tell me what is wrong with vinegar?

By the way, I stalled for 6 weeks until I stopped eating cheese (all dairy except for butter, actually.) I dropped 10 pounds and now I've been on another stall for 6 weeks and don't have one more thing I can cut out of my diet, I'm completely dairy free now. Some, I'm here for the long haul, just trying to elicit some sympathy and cave-help!!!

My typical meal plan is berries for breakfast, celery for midmorning snack, protein and salad for lunch, and protein and occasionally another vegie. I have eaten some macadamias, but I'm trying to cut those out to lose weight. I'm trying to cut out the salt and some fat, according to the Paleo Diet book. Any suggestions on how I can break this stall?

[captxray]

Welcome aboard our skin boat, Heather! It's cool that we've got a new convert to come to our cave. It's awfully hard to kill a mammoth with a rock, all by yourself. Now, we have one more rock-thrower to assist our little band of stalwart hunters and gatherers. I will have to go home and find out why Ray Audette doesn't like vinegar in our WOE. I'm obviously a proponent of Neanderthin, and that is definitely in his book, but I can't remember why. He doesn't allow any alcohol in the diet, so I stay away from it. (If you were naked, with a stick, what could you kill, gather, or eat? HE's pretty much a "purist" and doesn't allow any processed (by that he means, anything that must be cooked to be eaten) foods. I know what you mean about stalls. I've been on one for about 13 weeks...a little movement down...a couple of pounds...in all of that time. I've started an exercise program (if you have read any of my recent posts), cut out nuts, almost entirely, cut way back on the fruit, and have been eating mostly fish, veggies, olive oil, lemon juice (in my dressing) and a fair portion of red meat. Probably not a great idea, because of the high concentration of Omega-6 fatty acids. Not much change. I don't care, anymore. I'm doing what I need to do to get healthy and I know my body will eventually get there...even if it takes years. If you find the magic cure for the stall, be sure to share!

[Dandi]

Heather and captxray,
I'm very interested in what you do to break your stalls. You both seem to be following very good eating plans. I would think that with what your eating and exercise that you'll both be losing.

My DH and I have been eating broccoli and broccoli broth both for breakfast and for dinner. We are not doing it to lose weight but because it is supposed to help what ails him. But we do seem to be losing weight. I dropped another pound today. Between our two broccoli meals, we have a mid-morning snack. Then usually have a large salad meal at noon. And we have some fruit and/or nuts/seeds again in mid-afternoon. (I started eating some fruit again, but being more careful about when I eat it and I don't eat banana alone. I don't want another of those energy crashes.) Whenever we eat, we eat all we want. But our appetites are smaller than when we were eating the fast-acting carbs. Eating the two broccoli meals is only a temporary but it does seem to help us drop the pounds.

I still think the low-carb vegetables are the key to losing. We're eating lots of salad greens and sprouts. Keeping a health diary is a great help too, to know what is and what isn't working. We've also temporarily stopped eating meat or fish or eggs because the diary was telling us they were slowing my DH's recovery rate. We'll start implementing small amounts of them in a week or so, and monitor their effect on his health as we add them back.

Our rate of losing has slowed, which is good as we get nearer normal weight. I was losing ten pounds per month. This month I lost six.

captxray, you're doing great to ride your bike back and forth that distance. And you know the great thing is that you've got a WOE and exercise plan going. And you have a terrific sense of humor.

Yes, we live on the coast, in Brookings. Nice climate and winter flowers.

Heather,
Please let us know how things go. I think plaeo is the most sensible WOE there is. Nature gives us the foods we really need for best health and gives us a lot of guidance.

Dandi

[captxray]

The book, Neanderthin, by Ray Audette has a dismal index. I can never find anything I want in there, yet I know I've read about the subject. He's got a great bibliography, but a sorry index. Therefore, Heather, I cannot find why we're not supposed to use vinegar. I'll bet if you look on the Paleolithic Diet Page you can find something about vinegar. I haven't looked there for a while. It's always a fun read...a little mean-spirited about Vegans, sometimes, but still fun. Of course, even I...that's right...even the Captain gets a little annoyed with the "politically correct vegetarians" sometimes. They are responsible for the irradication of more species than us meat-eaters ever were, but they slather forth their drivle about "Not killing our fellow species," and other feel-good, uninformed blither. ENOUGH! Captain! Get a grip! Be NICE! What is one man's garbage is another man's treasure.

Dandi, my wife and I stay in Gold Beach a couple of times a year so she can paint and I can draw...It's not too spectacular, just relaxing and rejuvenating. I actually love the Oregon Coast. I would like to ride my motorcycle out there this summer and take my DW, if she's game. Of course, she isn't a paleo dieter like we are, but she said, "Maybe we could eat hamburger patties together." Of course, I immediately thought of fresh seafood...lots of fresh fish and salads! Yum! It would be neat to meet you and your DH, sometime...actual human contact with real paleo dieters, like ME! Whenever I drive through Cave Junction my heart skips a beat. The perfect place for a Neandernut to live! Of course, I can't promise you would like us in your cave, but I think it would be neat to meet you guys. I'm really getting tired of my stall...I wonder what it is that is causing it? My new exercize plan is about to kill me, and still....nothing!

[Dandi]

Heather,
I haven't read Audette's book yet so cannot comment on his views on vinegar. However, I have read a lot of diet and health books and the subject of vinegar comes up quite often. If I remember correctly, those who oppose vinegar do so because they say it causes a bad effect in the digestive system. And since health is affected by the digestion process, it is not good to use vinegar.

Some writers say apple cider vinegar is okay but other vinegars aren't. I do not remember their reasoning on that point.

Most of these writers advocate using lemon juice rather than vinegar, such as in salad dressings.

I looked through my books here at home and couldn't find "vinegar" in any of the indexes. I know some of those writers have commented on it but I couldn't locate what they said. It seems Audette's book isn't the only poorly-indexed book. If I come across anymore on the subject of vinegar, I'll let you know.

Dandi

[Dandi]

captxray,
When you and your wife come over this way, e-mail us at hothamsound~hotmail.com and we'll meet you somewhere for a paleo visit. We'll look forward to that. Please let us know ahead of time so we can arrange our schedule accordingly.

Is the place you are going to in July -- was it called Banner Peak --in Eastern Oregon? It sounds nice. We are very blessed in Oregon to have so much beautiful scenery.

My DH has a cold and so his energy level is down. We're not getting out as usual and we're both missing it. But I don't think it is good to push oneself too hard with a cold either. We walked only two miles yesterday. And this morning (now 8:30 a.m.) has been pure leisure, just lazing around the apartment, which is rare for us.

Maybe you and Heather and I and others on this thread can share the indexing we do to Audette's book. That would be a worthwhile project, I think, and enjoyable. We could each just note the page number on a certain subject, such as "vinegar" and pass it on to the others. Doing a little at a time like that would keep it simple and not like real work. And we would all gain from it. What do you think on this idea?

Concerning your stall, would it help to cut back on the amount of oil? My DH says one tablespoon of pesto will coat all the salad in a large bowl. And we have at times cut out all added oil for a day or two. We figure we actually get plenty of fats from nuts, seeds and the one/half avocado we each get on our noon salad, and sometimes too much, so we have to cut back on those foods too for a while. Also, they say that drinking adequate water helps the body lose weight. I think the key to breaking a stall is to keep a written record of what we eat and drink and how much exercise we get from day to day and then to add more of the non-starchy vegetables and plain, good water and less of the other foods in our lives until we start losing.

Also, after we make a change, it may take some days for the results of the change to show up. If I recall correctly, you started riding your bike to town not too long ago. You could be losing gradually. And losing gradually is very good, because then it is becoming a WOL and not just a temporary program. Don't experts in the field say, too, that a person can exchange muscle from exercise for previous fat? I should think you'd definitely be doing that with the bike riding.

Well, my DH says he's ready to get out for our walk. So maybe we're back on our routine around here. It's a grand foggy morning out there and we're going to enjoy it.

Dandi

[Heather]

Hi! I don't own Audette's book. The book I have is "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain.

The last time I broke my stall was quitting dairy. Now that I've done that, there isn't much more to give up.

The Paleo Diet does recommend a lower fat, higher protein diet than what Atkins prescribes. I like it because it allows me to eat all the vegies and fruits that I want. Although, I've only had berries and haven't gone hog-wild on them. I feel like it's more within the guidelines of what I like to eat rather than all the fatty foods on Atkins, so I'll probably be able to stick to it longer or the rest of my life (hopefully.)

I'm going to just keep plugging along and some day my weight will go down. I'm feeling less and less upset by the fact that I'm eating so healthy and nothing is happening scale-wise. I just keep thinking you are what you eat, and I've been making such healthy choices this year that I'm feeling pretty good. I've had a few slips lately, so I've got to watch that. But, overall, much, much better than where I was a year ago today!

I'll try and find Audette's book, I'm assuming that's Neanderthin. Then we can all be on the same page, so to speak!

Has anyone tried any insects? I ate ants once when I was about 11 on a dare. They were pretty peppery!

[captxray]

Hi, Heather and Dandi.

Yes, Heather, it's Neanderthin. I seem to have possibly broken through my stall...a little exercise seems to have been the key. I've lost 52 pounds, so far and that means I only have about 53 to go! I'm almost at 50%...whoooeee...yea! Hip! Hip! Hooray! I still look like an overstuffed bratwurst, but ....soon. Whatever you do...DON'T GIVE UP! It will break when your body is ready.

I keep thinking I ought to try an insect, or two. All they are is land-based lobsters, or shrimp, so-to-speak, right? The only problem with that is, I don't eat the lobster's or shrimp's carapace when I eat them. And, I certainly don't eat their entrails. YECHK!!!! I'm sorry...I'm such a "civilized poophead!" Why can't i be the modern day hunter and gatherer that I want to be? Let me have at them, again. I think it's ridiculous that I can't seem to get past my revulsion for eating spindly things with six legs and crunchy bodies. I think it's knowing that you're eating their little guts, and everything that really throws me. I will not feed them cornmeal before eating them as cornmeal is one of the worst things we can put in our bodies. That's like putting them in their own little feedlot before slaughtering them!

Dandi,
Banner Peak is in the High Sierras. Mt. Ritter is over 14,000 feet high...a little bigger than what's in Oregon. Of all the mountain ranges in the world that I've been to, the Sierras are my favorite. I'm certainly not knocking Oregon, though. That's one of the main reasons I moved up here ten years ago. Yesterday was one of the most beautiful days of my life. I just sat in my back yard (where I can see Shasta in the distance) and watched the birds at all of our feeders throughout the yard. We are backed up against a canal (at ground level), so we get to watch the water birds, too. We don't have a fence because there is a fifteen foot deep ditch that runs along our back property line for one of the irrigation districts in the area (it's in our yard and they charge us an assessment fee, annually to allow their water to run through our yard...which we can't use...go figure). But, with all of the stinging nettles going up and down the banks, it keeps even dogs out. On the other side of the canal are houses, but they are about 300 feet away from us. It's really like the country in our back yard. I love it. I'll let you know when we come to the coast. That would be fun!

Good paleo eating, all my fellow cave dwellers!

[captxray]

Here we go again!!! I am such a dolt! I still have 59 pounds to go!!!! AAAAAGGGHHHHH! What a big, overstuffed bratwurst, dumb head I sometimes am! Still, only 59 pounds to go...that's way better than what it was last September, when it was 101 pounds!!!

[Dandi]

captxray,
Fifty per cent is a real accomplishment. If you feel like I did when I reached fifty per cent, it was Hurrah!!! all the way. And from there on has seemed downhill. It is good news, too, that your stall has broken. Good for you for sticking with it!!

Heather,
I am with you one hundred per cent on wanting to have a goodly amount of non-starchy vegetables and some low-glycemic fruits in the WOE. Especially the vegetables. Both my husband and I have seen some adverse health effects when we've eaten too large an amount of meat in our diet. I knew it affected me poorly. And then recently my husband's health diary has shown the same thing for him. So we're even doing without meats for a short time and then will add back small amounts gradually over time to see how we do. But I don't want to go without meat permanently either, I've read of too many people who've had health problems from that route.

The interesting thing, to me, about the paleo diet is that we can arrange our diet to balance out our systems for best health. We have been doing fine at getting by without meat for a while. Both of us have high energy. I used to think of LC in terms of mostly meats. But now I'm finding out that isn't necessarily so.

We haven't tried bugs. We have eaten rattle snake and it was very good, as good as any chicken meat. I could cook and eat the meat, but I couldn't sit near the drying skin. Illogical, huh??? We also were served eel by an Indian family in Northern California. It was pretty tasty too but very rich. One of the younger Indians warned us not to eat too much of it or it could make us sick. We have neither one ever eaten an insect. My DH says he thinks he could eat a grasshopper. I think if we were lost in the woods, that either of us could eat grubs or about anything we had to. We might not like it, but I think we could make ourselves do it if it was necessary for survival.

I'm an herbalist of sorts, and we have, in the past, gathered many herbs from the wild for our own use. My DH used to hunt and fish a lot. But now we just grow sprouts for salads and buy our vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds in our town.

Dandi

[Heather]

Wow, Captxray, congratulations on your loss! Half-way there!!!!!!!! YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

Ok, that gives me encouragement to stay the course! Thank you!!!!!!!! I'm in-between gyms right now, new one opening first week of July, so exercise has been a little off lately. Can't wait for it to open, my sausage legs need a workout!

Did you know that dried stinging nettles is the most awesome herbal tea EVER?????? It has a really robust flavor and it is loaded with vitamins, particularly A! You're so lucky, you can forage for it right in your own backyard!

[Dandi]

captxray,
You really have done, and are doing, wonderfully well. For one thing, you've stayed the course. That is a real inspiration to others. You've lost much of the weight you wanted to. You've got a regular exercise program going and you've set goals. That is all pretty great.

Your "rural" home sounds really special. There's something about just having space to look out. For some reason it is calming. Sometimes I wish we had space for a garden. But at our ages, I'm 64 and my DH will be 70 in August, we are really better off in our apartment where we can walk anywhere in town.

Heather,
It's neat to meet others, such as yourself, on this board who are interested in herbs. As you noted, nettles are good for herb tea and also to eat. An extract from them is also one of the three primary herbs used for men with prostate problems, which my husband is just overcoming. He has also used extract from saw palmetto. And we want to get some extract from pygeum but haven't found any yet. He has also changed his WOE, to include lots of non-starchy vegetables (especially broccoli) and he has taken up walking. He was riding a bicycle but that contributes to prostate problems so he gave that up.

Do either of you have any ideas on a paleo herbal seasoning? This evening meal I took a little tahini and spread it on romaine leaves. It tasted good and was very satisfying, quick and easy to make too. I seasoned it with a little Spike but then later I read the ingredients and saw some of them aren't paleo, so I'm looking for some herbal seasonings that will dress up the tahini.
This would make a great carry-along lunch or snack.

Dandi

[captxray]

Wow! You great paleolithic hunters and gatherers! I am so glad you are on this thread. What do I do to make the stinging nettle tea? They are everywhere on the bank in my back yard. I made a tea from wild artichokes in my back yard, once. It really wasn't very good. I made a tea from dried mullen leaves...they are all over the place, too. I forgot what that is supposed to be good for, now. Maybe you two could help me on that. I also remember, somewhere that I read that pussy willow makes a good tea...I've got that stuff, too...and wild watercress... and...and...I've got all sorts of wild plants in my back yard or on the canal...it goes for miles and is wild and free on both sides. I walk down it a lot and watch the minks chase the ducks and the baby ducklings and mothers trying to keep them from the minks, and the musk rats, and the beavers, and the all of the water fowl. This year we've seen some new ones for this area...white-faced ibis, evening gross beaks, quail all over my back yard, even a great blue heron on my bank! Not to mention our regular mainstays...thousands of them!...ducks, geese, finches, five kinds of blackbirds, night herons, robins, blue jays, greater and lesser egrets...the list goes on and on...we are on the Great Western Flyway...oh! Eagles!!! Lots of 'em!

[Heather]

Captxray, you are so lucky to have all that wildlife in your own backyard! I live in the suburbs, but across the street from us is a creek, so we get some tweety birds and doves, a few racoons and possums wandering around from time to time.

As far as the stinging nettles, I have dried nettles. So, for me, I boil some water and pour it over the dried herb in a french press. I let it steep for a few minutes before pressing and pouring. I don't know how they would taste fresh, but when I have fresh herbs I just make a sun tea. Sometimes drying allows the flavor to be more intense and robust. Mullein is gelatinous, good for soothing intestines and colon.

Dandi, I just bought some Herbes de Provence at Whole Foods and it was very tasty in my lemon juice and oil salad dressing. It's good if you like a slight lavender flavor. I have not heard of pygeum. I have TONS of herbal books, and have taken a few classes locally. Staying off the bike is probably the best thing he could do! I'll take a look and see if I can find anything else related to prostrate in any of my books. I'll get back to you.

[captxray]

:blush: Than you so much for the herbal advice! I know how bad that hard bike seat is for my prostate, but, dang! I've just got to keep at it! My bike is an 18 year old one-time-state-of-the-art racing bike from my old triathalon days...you know the seat is hard, hard, hard! I'm finally getting somewhat used to it, again, after over a week of riding it to work and back. For the first four or five days my butt hurt so bad! Sitting on the seat was agony. But, been there, done that, so I knew it would get better with time. I can fly, now! Well, compared to last week...I can stay in my highest gear almost all the way to work. What a beautiful ride this morning! I go along a bike path almost all the way...it goes along the canal and on an old railroad trail. The birds and waterfowl were wonderful this morning and the sun was coming up over the mountains and the sky was blue, blue, blue! Wow! I forgot how much I missed when I was just a big pig and ate all of the wrong foods all the time. I love getting back into shape! I can't really run, anymore. My knees are pretty much jelly on toast! My last races (10K) were pretty pitiful back 18 years ago. My last triathalon was a small 10 mile ride, 300 yard swim, 4 1/2 mile run. An old man came up behind me and passed me and said, "I just can't stand to watch the pain, any longer." Embarrassing...I finished 180 out of about 220. That was the end of my athletic career! That's why I bike, now. And walking doesn't jar my knees like running did.

[Dandi]

Hi Heather and captxray,
On the nettle tea: Of course, be very careful picking the nettles. Wear gloves and don't let them touch your skin. Read up on this before going further but it seems, if I remember correctly, that we just dried them and then could handle them. Dropping them into boiling water and then steeping them for tea would take the sting out too. But do read up on it before doing anything because it has been over 20 years since I've gathered nettles and I may not be remembering correctly.

Concerning the prostate: there are softer seats designed to prevent that problem for men, I think. And my DH did develope his prostate problem in the same year he took up bike riding again. We also bought our first mircowave oven during that year, which some people think contributes to the problem too. Anyway, thanks to saw palmette, broccoli, lots of vegetables and some fruits, his symptoms are pretty much gone. For the prostate, they say that an extract of the herbs must be used, that just using the leaves or berries will not do the job. And many of the prostate formulas being sold in the stores do not have the extract(s) in them. Walking is very good for that problem too.

Mullein is the herb I use for respiratory problems. I am prone to get a form of pneumonia because bulbar polio affected that system. Mullein has been my mainstay over the years for that and for colds. It also helps a person sleep. And it is one of the ingredients in a famous and effective herbal formula for hypoglycemia.

It seems you live in a very special place, captxray. There are probably many other herbs you could gather there, if you want to. When we lived at Leavenworth, WA I just went out into the big yard and gathered and ate my lunch while soaking up some sunshine and peacefulness.

The great blue herons used to fly over our cabin in the Canadian wilderness and land on the beach by us to fish for food. A sea otter would play hide-and-seek with me when I sat on my log at the base of the waterfalls and where the creek ran out into the ocean. Everyone needs a "sitting place" for quiet meditation.

Heather, thanks for telling me about Herbes de Provence. I don't know what it is but will look for it around here.

I came across www.usaweekend.com/98_issues/980503/980503eat_smart<caveman.html ,

The article there says the Stone Age Diet included 65% fruits, vegetables, nuts, (legumes) and honey. Along with 35% lean game, eggs, fowl, fish and shellfish. That it included 7000 mg of potassium and 600 mg of sodium. It was taken from the work of S. Boyd Eaton who does think they ate legumes and that disagrees with Audette. However, I was interested in the percentages of the food intake and in the amounts of sodium and potassium. The amounts of those two minierals is so-o-o different from what people take in today.

I am enjoying knowing you two very much and others on this board. Today, though, I put my computer up for sale. If and when it sells I won't be posting unless I start using a public computer. Maybe I can do that some.
I'll have to explore that possibility.

Dandi

[captxray]

Bummer! Sorry to hear that you may be leaving us...I'm going to read that article. Thanks for the address. Although Audette disagrees with Eaton, he really respects him and admits that if you cook beans and legumes, you cook out the harmful alkaloids, and beans probabaly aren't all that bad for you, except for the carb count. He just doesn't think that stone aged Mankind ate them and that the ones we get today are so heavily bred and farmed that they have lost their naturalness. He also has a policy that if it has to be cooked to be edible, it isn't for Neanderthinners. In other words, "If you were naked, with a stick, could you eat this?" Whatever...I stay away from beans and legumes because they never really agreed with me (or my wife...I get quite flatulent...drives her nuts and out of the house!). My dad's family were farmers from Southern Utah and they all ate beans by the bushels. I grew up on them and just thought faltulence was something unique to my family...and me. What a shock when I found that when I didn't eat them, I had no problems with gas. So, whatever cave men ate is of no consequence to me when it comes to those little guys. I don't touch 'em. I read an article once, about the people in Nepal and Tibet, who make a salt tea with rock salt every morning and all day long. Their sodium count is the highest in the world, but they live to be over a hundred, quite often. They eat loads of dried apricots and rock salt! Go figure.

[captxray]

I can't seem to get that web site that you gave us. I can't find the article on it.

[Dandi]

let me try typing in that site again and see if it works this time:

www.usaweekend.com/98_issues/980503/980503eat_smart-caveman.html

That should work now.

Dandi

[Dandi]

captxray,
Sorry, I just cannot get the address to come out right when I type it here. But I found a way, I think, around the problem Go to www.usaweekend.com and then type "stone age diet" into search. That will bring up about ten articles. The one you want has the word "caveman" on it.

I know that lupine is a naturally growing legume. I've read that it can be poisonous. But in one country they eat it often. Undoubtedly, as you said, it has to be cooked. Maybe even, like skunk cabbage, through several waters. Due to my convictions as a health nut, I once decided we would eat the young skunk cabbage without boiling it through the four waters. That was a mistake. Our lips felt as if they were receiving electrical jolts. That experience taught me that people have a reason for giving the instructions they give in herbal books.

Dandi

[captxray]

I think I'll stay away from skunk cabbage if it needs five waterings...obviously needs to be cooked to eat it. My yard is full of about three different types of lupine...I didn't know they were a legume! Doesn't really matter, though. They're pretty and will stay that way. I don't eat legumes or beans...Boy! those stinging nettles sure know how to sting! They went right through my heavy, rubber treated gloves...OWWWW! I think I'll stay with my wife's radishes and lettuce in the garden...

[Dandi]

captxray,
Sorry about those nettles "getting" you. One does have to be careful to not get stung. But they are very good for nutritional and medicine. But you can always do like we do these days, buy the dried ones at the store. Radishes and lettuce are better behaved!!

In the days when we gathered our own herbs, we were well equipped with clothing and equipment suitable for whatever we were gathering -- more than a sharpened stick. So maybe the cavemen did not gather nettles.

I ordered a copy of Neanderthin through a local bookstore, couldn't find it on the shelves anywhere. It's due in Friday, only two days from now. I'm looking forward to reading it.

We are walking about five miles now on most days. And our pace has picked up. We'd like to be walking at least a 15 minute mile but aren't there yet. We aren't pushing, though, just walking a comfortable pace. But a comfortable pace now is faster than it was a few months, or even weeks, ago. Any progress is encouraging.

Dandi

[captxray]

Dandi, good to hear that you are picking up the pace! I agree with you about any progress. Last night I ate too much fruit...and everything else...I had a rather large (for me) lunch and rode my bike home and, for some reason, was famished. My wife is not at home to make my meals and keep me under control (our daughter, in Mountain Home, Idaho, is having our first grandchild...we hope...she had contractions two days ago...but then the little guy went back into hiding). I have no clients tonight...so, I've got to keep my(lonely)self under check. I don't know if it is related to my bike, my lack of sleep, too much exercise, or just...whatever, but I've now got a great big, nasty, ugly hemorroid...ow! It's not great with that hard bike seat, I'll tell ya'! I got up and suddenly remembered that I had to water all of the hanging plants and our new garden before I left for work this morning (remember, no wife..gone to help daughter with new baby...what about me?!...Only kidding). Therefore, I didn't get out my wife's bike down out of the attick in the garage, and refurbish it for the ride. It has a softer seat (it's a mountain bike). Tonight, after a grueling ride (I'm not kidding!) home, I plan to get it ready for Thursday's ride to work. Tomorrow, I can't ride it because of my late hours at my office with a four hour mediation expected and the paperwork that will follow.

I hope you like Neanderthin. I follow it religiously and enjoy the WOE and WOL. I know I need to cut back and eat a few more veggies and less meat, of late. I've also got to get to the store, tonight, so I can get some more salad makin's (lettuce, brocolli, celantro, parsely, spinach, and whatever else I can find that looks good and healthy). I didn't get a salad last night, or the night before that and, BOY! Do I miss my salad! I am craving it so bad, I can hardly stand it! I never thought I would crave leafy green veggies, or fruit! What a change this diet has made in my life!

[Heather]

Hi Dandi, I did read that the antimicrobal properties of Echinacea is something that really helps prostate enlargement. Saw Palmetto is the best thing to take for prostate problems.

Here is a Prostate Enlargement formula that you could mix up to assist in reduction:

Equal parts:

Bearberry
Couchgrass
Echinacea
Horsetail
Hyndrangea

Take 3X Daily

We just got our threesome going and now you are going to leave us??? I'm sad......You'll be missed.

Captxray, hemmy! OWWWWWWWWW! Witch hazel is good for that guy. Poor thing, I could just imagine how you must feel along with the stinging nettles! I agree with Dandi, forage in the health food store for those bad boys. They do lose their sting when they dry. They are a natural diuretic, so make sure you drink your water to keep things going.

Interesting finding about the sodium, that is very little.

I LOVE dried apricots! I was raised on homemade ones. The sulphur does have a bit of side effect, however.

My road bike is about 25 years old, Peugeot with Reynolds double-butted tubing. I have one of those gel pads AND a sheepskin on the seat! I need to get it in and tuned up so I can have fun riding this summer. We have a bike trail that goes for about 25 miles right by my house. I also have a mountain bike that I hate, because it's too short and it hurts my wrists. The guy that sold it to me didn't fit me correctly for it. I'll take my antique Peugeot any day!

I've had 2 knee surgeries so my running days are long behind me. Walking is the very best exercise there is, though! Dandi, 5 miles a day is fantastic no matter what pace! I can't wait for the new gym to open, they are going to have an indoor pool, swimming is my true love! It's only junior olympic size, not sure how long that is, but I should be able to get a couple of arm lengths across to be sure. What I hate is feeling like all I'm doing is turning! There is a master's swim program at a local high school that I used to swim in, but the hours are too crazy. That has an olympic size pool, which was very nice.

Have a good one!

[Dandi]

Hi Heather,
Your post is an enjoyable read. The bike trail near your place sounds like a dream to enjoy!!

Thanks for the formula. I copied it off. We knew about the Echinacea for the prostate but some of the things in your list were new to us, not in any of the sources we've had available.

Any type or distance of exercise is a victory. If we get our exercise in early in the day, the day is off to a good start.

I am going to explore the possibility of using a public computer for posting on here. If that works out I'll be able to stay in touch. I am enjoying getting to know the two of you, razzle and others on this board. So maybe that will work out even after I sell the computer. We'll see how it goes.

Dandi

[captxray]

Dandi, I think it is great that you might be able to use the library computer to stay in touch. There are so few of us hunters and gatherers in today's modern world...or on this forum. I think Atkins is a great improvement over the usual diet of America and the world, but paleo is so much better for us humans, and there are so few who have actually "seen the light." It gets lonely being a Neandernut when all else think I'm just too tweaked off course when I talk about the problems with dairy, and cooking oils. Glad to hear that you may not be actually leaving, for good.
Five miles a day is great! I wish I had the time for that, too.

Heather, thank you for the witch hazel tip. I'm still not done with gathering the stinging nettles. I won't let those little weeds get the best of me, yet! I just must be better armed. This weekend, I make a new assault!

Your bike sounds a lot like mine...a little older but, Peugeots are a good, old bike. Hey! They worked when we were younger. Why not now? I'm getting really sick of all of this "high tech" stuff, anyway. Your bike trail sounds a lot like ours...ours is actually two. The other is only about 8 miles long, and ends at Oregon technical Institute, on one end, and right by my house, on the other end. One goes for about 40 miles into the mountains on an old logging train route. Your knees also sound like mine! My running days are long behind me, too. I didn't have surgeries...yet, but my knees are toast. Being a dumb teenager and lifting weights without a spotter did mine in. Also, ended my football carreer.

When I was training for triathalons I would swim 2000 meters a day in an olympic sized pool, complete with lane lines, and everything...boring.....I like to get in and swim a bit, but swimming back and forth, back and forth...looking at the line...Wow! Although, there were days when I just wanted to think...or meditate, and it was kind of nice...sort of like a long motorcycle ride. Except when I'm on my scoot, I can watch the countryside and watch out for hazards and listen to the melodic drone of the engine, but similar.

I hate to admit it, but I'm lonely with my wife gone to my daughter's. I watched a movie last night that she would never watch with me...Romeo is Bleeding. After I watched it, I wished I hadn't, also. I tossed and turned all night. One of my other daughters wants me to come up to Bend this weekend to see her, as her husband will be over in Eugene. But, with the garden just coming up and all of our plants that may need to be brought in because it's projected to be in the 30s overnight, I think I have to stay home....bummer!

[Heather]

Agreed, swimming can be very boooooooooring! But, I have found just about any exercise routine can become that way, except maybe biking. When you bike you can go all over the place and if down here if you're not on a bike trail, you take your life into your own hands! That can be exciting!! Just not in a fun way............

Dandi, I sure hope that you can log on at the library. We need you stick in there with us!


Captxray, sorry to hear you are missing your wife. I've never seen Romeo is Bleeding, sounds like a 'Looking for Mr. Goodbar' gone wrong!

I can't imagine 30 degrees at night right now. We are in the middle of a heat wave! We've had a really cool spring then BAM! It's 96 degrees!

Yesterday was the hottest day of the year so far and I had an appointment to get my hair trimmed. The salon that I go to recently moved into what used to be a coffee bar. No airconditioning! Can you believe it?????? I had them wash my hair in COLD water. It was at least 100 degrees in there with all the blow dryers going! No more appointments after work, I'm going on Saturday mornings! I asked the lady cutting my hair how on earth could they have served coffee in there in the summer with no a/c? She said, "Iced coffee." Huh, never thought of that!

Gotta run!

You both take care, talk to you soon!

[Dandi]

Heather and captxray,
We are really in between you two on climate right now. I'd guess that it is about 60-70 degrees here today, but windy. Nice for walking, no sweater needed. We've been having foggy mornings, which usually means, capt, that you all are having hot days over your way.

Well, if I use a public computer I won't be posting nearly as often.
But then that's the reason for selling the computer, so I can give more time to being with my DH, making sure we eat and exercise and take care of ourselves better than we were. But I would like to check in every now and then to keep up on the conversation.

Tomorrow Audette's book arrives. I'm really looking forward to reading it.

Good for you, capt, attack those nettles. But wear your armour.
Let us know how it goes. I hope your wife hurries home soon. No fun being lonely. I hope some meditative and peaceful activity fills part of your time and makes the loneliness go away for that time.

A woman at the natural foods store loaned me a book she bought at the library book sale. I was going to pass the title and author of the book on to you two, but then I didn't think and returned the book. Now I can't remember the title or author. The book was about cancer and was written in 1983. It talked about how the cancer society and medical institutions wouldn't recognize the connection between cancer and nutrition. That has changed a lot in twenty years. But what interested me was the author's reference to how early man ate and that showed us how to eat too. It wasn't a major part of the book but it let me know talk about the paleo WOE has been going on for sometime. It seems every time I turn around now I'm hearing or reading something about the paleo WOE.

Last night on the news they had a thing on Calorie Restriction. It wasn't done with much depth. I recently read Walford's (I hope I got his name right) on it, found it at the public library. I think the paleo WOE tends to be an automatic Calorie Restriction WOE along with being natural. Anyway I was interested to see the media covering such a subject. It shows how much attitudes toward such subjects has changed.

Dandi

[captxray]

Cancer is an auto-immune disease. Auto-immune diseases, for the most part in the human population, are caused by eating grains in large quantities, and some dairy. Nice to see that there have been some who voiced reason in the past.

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Dandi

Tomorrow Audette's book arrives. I'm really looking forward to reading it.

You're in for a pleasant read :thup: Just finished reading it, and loved it.

Wa'il

[captxray]

I've been learning most of the little abbreviations, but what does it mean? Am I missing out on something important?

Also, I agree. The book should prove a fun read. He's a falconer, you know. He also brings back road kill, on his morning walks, for his falcon to dive on. He' a MENSA

[tamarian]

Originally posted by captxray
I've been learning most of the little abbreviations, but what does it mean? Am I missing out on something important?

You're not missing anything, since it's not an abbreviation :) It's a middleastern name most likely originated in Yemen, also can be found with different spellings like Wayel, Wa'el, Wael etc.

Wa'il

[captxray]

Is it pronounced Wa-el? I learned something new. Sorry that I thought it was some sort of code.

[tamarian]

It's more like wa-ill, and no worries, this is a frequent question around here :)

Wa'il

[Dandi]

The book arrived yesterday, Interlibrary Loan, (hardback) and I read some last night, then got up at 4 am and read some more. Then today, the copy I had ordered arrived at the bookstore (paperback). So I returned the library copy and finished reading my own copy. It is interesting. Now I'll go back and re-read it, index and highlight things I want to be able to find. It was a more scholarly book than I expected after reading some of the reviews on the Net, but easy reading too. The recipes are interesting.
I'm looking forward to trying some of them.

I chuckled at one point while reading. My DH is 5 ft. 10 in. and weighs, since losing weight, 150#. He looks thin. Ray Audette described himself as 6 ft and weighing 145#. Now that is thin!!

We've walked nearly seven miles today and enjoyed it thoroughly despite the strong winds. One disadvantage to losing weight -- strong winds can blow one about more. At one location the two of us nearly did a Mary Poppins.

We are eating a lot of almond butter and tahini. I'd say about 3-6 T. daily for each of us. I thought that would slow or stop our weight loss, but so far it hasn't, so it doesn't look as if it will. On Atkins I gained weight and always thought it was so much fat in my diet. But we're eating a lot of fats now and losing. The scales haven't shown another drop in weight but my clothes are looser so I know I am losing.

This is all very interesting.

Dandi

[Heather]

Hi Dandi, what are you eating your almond butter on? Is it just by eatself? I haven't had any, but I've eaten cashew butter - YUMMY! That was in my vegetarian days, though. I have found that eating a few raw pecans at night has been staving off my cravings quite nicely. They have just a bit of sweetness and TONS of fiber.

I stopped eating berries this week and instead switched to cucumbers, tomatoes and 2 eggs for breakfast. This seems to be a real good combo for me in the morning. I also have added a light over my computer at work, with one of those Reveal light bulbs. I'm thinking that the additional light, and it not being flourescent, is also improving my mood and energy level. Our offices don't have windows, so I don't get any natural light at work, except when I go home for lunch.

It got hot again yesterday, but we are heading towards a cool down, lower 80s. We get our natural air conditioning coming in tonight, fog from the ocean. So, things will be back to normal, weather-wise. Can't take that heat at night, I sleep miserably!

Hope all is well with you both!

Captxray, did the baby come yet? What's going on there?

Talk to you soon!

[Dandi]

Heather,
Sometimes I mix the almond butter with shredded, unsweetened coconut. Othertimes I spread a little amond butter on apple quarters. That's my favorite -- but I have to watch I don't eat too much apple or it causes hypoglycemic reactions. Sometimes I just eat the almond butter off the spoon -- that's a good and quick keep-me-going snack.

I stir tahini into some water and pour it over my salad for a dressing. Tomatoe and/or avocado can be mixed with it for more flavor. I want to experiment with ground herbs and see which ones will go well with the tahini dressing. I'm also going to try mixing the almond butter and tahini in a salad dressing.

Cashews used to be a treat but we're off them now. Too many warnings about them, and plaeo doesn't allow for them.

Everyone,

I am really enjoying Audette's book. I've read it twice now and highlighted a lot in it. It just makes sense to me, except I still wonder what percent of the diet was meat. Greens and roots would be so much easier to gather. I'll be watching for more information on that percentage.

We have found we can buy beef without hormones or antibiotics in our area at a natural foods store. And a clerk at Fred Meyers told me they usually carry one brand of it too but they were out that day. It is spendy but my DH seems to react to the regular beef and chicken raised with hormones, etc., so for right now I think he needs to hormone/antibiotic free meats. Fortunately naturally raised eggs are readily available now.

A woman is coming in three hours to look at the computer. It sounds pretty sure she'll take it, so I don't know when I'll be on next.

Dandi

[tamarian]

Originally posted by Dandi
I am really enjoying Audette's book. I've read it twice now and highlighted a lot in it. It just makes sense to me, except I still wonder what percent of the diet was meat. Greens and roots would be so much easier to gather.

I think this is the million dollars question :)

The often quoted Eaton paper "Paleolithic Nutrition" suggests 30% meat in the 1985 version, and 35% in the 1997 version. That's what Cordain is basing his plan on, and his diatribe against high-fat, high-protein, low-carb "fads".

However, the numbers are just guestimates from a couple of modern day foragers. They seem to forget the seasonal difficulties in finding edible veggies and fruits then, and the different climate in the Paleo period.

That's another reason to respect Audette, he doesn't claim to know, just eat all none-tech, and don't force any ratios.

Wa'il

[captxray]

She may be gone, by now, but...I have found that when I eat more than about 30% meat and protein, I don't lose weight and begin to feel funny after about three days. I need my veggies and fruit...especially my veggies. I actually crave them, at times...imagine! Craving veggies! Go figure!

Since I went to the "sort-of-30%-rule-almost," I ahave found that the weight is peeling off, again and I feel fantastic! I was eating too much protein (for my body, anyway) and since changing, I am doing much better.
Doesn' tahini have soy products in it? If so, that may be ther reason for your hypoglycemic reaction, Dandi. I love almond butter, too. I make it myself. I put it on brocolli and celery...yumm.

Heather. I have one of those light bulbs in my office and I've had it for about five years, now. It makes a huge difference, especially in the winter. I am pretty allergic to flourecent light and get nauseated by it. I often turn it off during the day, even in my classroom and just let the sunlight filter through. The kids seem to do better with that, too. I've never ever had a complaint from them, and after all, they are teenagers! Teenagers complain about everything! I recommend your use of that light around your desk. I think you will notice a big difference. No baby, yet! Looks like he's going to wait, full term. My wife is home (last night) and says our daughter is doing well for a woman so pregnant..of course my daughter wants that "thing" out of her now. I think the novelty of being pregnant has worn off. One more thing...what kind of berries have you been eating? I have found that strawberries and I don't get along too well, even though I luv the little devils. I do much better with marion berries, boysenberries, raspberries, blue berries, and an occasional grape. My own home-dryed prunes and I do well together. I do well with all types of melons, too. In fact, it seems that cataloupe actually helps me lose weight. I wonder why? Grapefruit, too.

[tamarian]

Originally posted by captxray
Since I went to the "sort-of-30%-rule-almost," I ahave found that the weight is peeling off, again and I feel fantastic! I was eating too much protein (for my body, anyway) and since changing, I am doing much better.


It's always great when we listen to our bodies, and do what it likes :)

But, I think the "percentage-thing" can be misleading, by itself. While not perfect, a gram count is a better indicator. As we each have a toxicity limit to the amount of protein, the percentage can't tell us if we're close to it. Same for minimum requirements, the gram count is more accurate, and does not depend on caloric intake.

In any case, I don't think hunters and gatherers worked out any specific percentages, as they were lucky not to have any government appointed medical bodies to dictate such requirements. ;)

Wa'il

[captxray]

The main reason Atkins didn't work for me was the counting of everything. Weight Watchers did me in on that one a long time ago when I lost 117 pounds. I "stayed clean" for three years, even became a WW counselor and did about three meetings a week. Then, I just lost interest in counting stuff. That's why I like the hunters and gatherers life style. I don't have to count. Although, lately I have been pretending that I am really out hunting and gathering and have noticed that protein is a little harder to come by than the plant material. Therefore, I have been following that "sort-of" rule. It seems to be working. The main thing that is important, as I see it, is that I'm paying attention to my body and doing what it likes and needs. Haven't eaten any gophers, lately.

[Heather]

Hi! I don't know what it is exactly, but since Monday, I really have had a heightened sense of well being. I've switched around a few things, so it may be hard to tell what it is.

The berries I was eating first was raspberries, then I switched last week to strawberries. I think I'm allergic to those rascals. I'm off berries for the time being.

Other things that are different are the light bulb, but I am feeling better right after I eat my breakfast. I started eating eggs again, after only having them occasionally on the weekends for about a month. I've also started drinking iced Red Zinger in the morning, which is primarily hibiscus and rose hips and doesn't have any caffeine.

I'm not concerned with losing weight at this point, I've given up on that prospect for the time being. I think I may be eating too much protein to lose it. At lunch I have about 1/2 pound and at dinner about 1 pound, that's pre-cooked weight. Do you think that's too much? It sure sounds like a lot, but when it's on my plate it doesn't look like it's that big. I'm afraid if I eat any less than that I'll be hungry. I'm also eating a huge salad at lunch, but only sometimes a vegie with dinner. I suppose if I ate more vegies at dinner, I would eat less protein.

The reason that I'm feeling so great could be that I'm doing more things after work than I usually do or that I'm just not focused on losing weight anymore. I know that I'm still overweight, but I feel good and am eating healthily.

Glad to hear your wife is back home, Captxray. I know you missed her dearly. Hope the baby comes on time and the delivery is smooth.

Teenagers complain????? HA! Yeah, I know all about that.

Got stuff to do at work. Talk to you soon!

[captxray]

I know that since I've cut back on the protein, about a half pound a day...at the most(!), I am losing weight and feel great. That's just me, though. I think each of us is different. Got to go with what feels right for your own body, just like Wa'il says. I am trying to eat veggies at each meal...maybe that is making a difference. I am also only eating lunch and dinner (as early in the evening as possible)...When I lost all of my previous weight, I only ate one meal a day. I think that may actually be good for me. If I eat that meal early in the evening, I have an entire 24 hours to process all of the stuff that just went into my system. I don't know, maybe that isn't too good, but it sure seems to work for me.