IBS Diagnosis?

[SidC]

Had my annual physical last week and was told I had IBS. Two questions:

1. I thought that IBS was a diagnosis of last resort after having ruled out other possibilities. Anyone have any info/thoughts on that?

2. I sought a second medical opinion - he suggested it might be due to following a long-term LC diet, which I find really difficult to believe. I eat a good amount of fiber, lots of vegetables, etc. etc. - your basic Atkins maintenance diet. I gave him a detailed description of what I eat and asked what on earth was wrong with it - he admitted it looked pretty good, but nevertheless, he just thought long-term LC could cause gastrointestinal distress. So - has anyone else had sudden problems with gas, bloating, or other GI problems after a few years of loyal LC?

Thanks for any experience you can share -

[Ayustar]

Well, what are you experiencing as far as IBS goes?
Good that you choose to get a second opinion but I have never heard that it gives you problems. Maybe fibre makes you gassy or something, I know it can do that, but hmmm..

[nikib5]

I was told I have IBS too several years ago. I have to watch the amount of vegetables I eat. Like last night I made the mistake of eating too much spinach. It causes gas for me and sometimes diarrhea.

I don't know what your symptoms are, but it's good to keep a food diary and keep track of how you feel after eating.

Take care!

Edited to add: I don't buy the "LC diet causes IBS" argument. Most people that have it don't LC. I'm pretty sure my IBS was caused by too many antibiotics and stress.

[Kestrel]

You need to read Life Without Bread by Dr. Lutz, which outlines how he treats intestinal disorders with a low-carb diet. One of his other books - only available in German - covers those topics more thoroughly. For many of the disorders, fiber is not your friend...

[bladegem]

2nd question: It really varies from person to person. If I go too far either way my IBS symptoms come back. Too high-carb (NOT sugar or junk, I've never eaten those on a regular basis) or too low-carb worsens my symptoms.

What helps me is getting lots of fiber in SMALL portions. Too much fiber in one sitting and my body rebels, but it also can't handle no-carb or very-low-carb (<20 carbs). For example, eating a big salad (i.e. lots of fiber in one sitting) just worsens my symptoms. Meat and egg fast or the Fat Fast bloats me horribly. I've had to compromise...right now I consume roughly 40 carbs a day through vegetables and fruits, and it has helped immensely. I'm also off of Prilosec. :)

And now going back to the 1st question:

Yes, from what I know IBS is basically a catchall for "we-don't-know-what's-wrong-but-it-has-something-to-do-with-digestion".

In my case, I think it has to do with food intolerances and an inability to digest a "normal" amount of food. I have never been able to eat a nice, full plate without getting some digestive backlash (even as a kid) no matter what diet I'm on. LC has helped, and I have recently gone soy-free, which has also helped. I still have to stick to small amounts of food.

[Nancy LC]

IBS isn't really a diagnosis of anything. Its a "we don't want to be bothered to figure out the real reason" or a "we don't know".

A lot of people really love the SCD diet (I do it but without dairy products) because it is so healing for the intestines. www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info is the main web site.

[kebaldwin]

Sorry to hear about that. I have a family history of bowel disease.

One of the classic symptoms of type 2 diabetes is intestional problems. It is NOT caused by low carb diet. How irresponsible of your doctor to suggest this.

Could be IBS, diverticulitis, Crohn's, Ulcerative colitis, etc.

Dr Atkins in his vita-nutrients book recommends
Benefical bacteria (probiotic)
fiber
zinc
oil of oregano
olive leaf extract
vitamin c
vitamin B
garlic
essential fatty acids (fish oil)
biotin
magnesium
glutamine
natural source beta-carotene

http://www.vitacost.com/articleResults.aspx?Ntt=bowel&Ntk=articles&previousText=ibs&ss=1

http://www.worldhealth.net/p/gi-digestive.html

http://www.google.com/search?as_sitesearch=qualitycounts.com&q=bowel

http://www.google.com/search?q=bowel&domains=www.jonbarron.org&sitesearch=www.jonbarron.org

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/srchcont.asp?src=bowel&op=mm

http://www.picosearch.com/cgi-bin/ts.pl?index=301821&calln=2&lastq=&sortsel=rel&psel=ealert&opt=ANY&doc0=0&query=bowel

[SidC]

Thank you all so much for your suggestions, experiences and info - I just got back on line and want to digest (no pun intended :lol: ) what you've given me and check out the links you've provided. I fried my laptop last night with the dread liquid spill....it's been kind of a hectic day.

Ayustar - you asked about symptoms. They would be:
bloat, abdominal distension, gas, spending a certain amount of time in the bathroom waiting for nothing that ever happens, seemingly random alternation of normal, loose and constipated movements (interesting to type this with the "help," "LOL," and "wave" icons on the side bar), but no pain, except very infrequently a sharp pain that appears and disappears almost immediately on the right side.

This has been gradually worsening for the last two years or so, but has really nose-dived recently. Interesting the mention about soy from Bladegem - my problems seemed to get much worse after a dinner I had where I ate a lot of tofu. Hmm. OK - more tomorrow.

[Ayustar]

So it is harder to go? I think I may have this problem, I have to take Sennakot or I pretty much DON'T go at all and I get all bloated and terrible feeling, I think I have always had this, even before low carb -_-. And you just sit there...nothing happens, nothing substancial at least. Is that what your getting? I hate having to take laxatives....

[SidC]

I was told I have IBS too several years ago. I have to watch the amount of vegetables I eat. Like last night I made the mistake of eating too much spinach. It causes gas for me and sometimes diarrhea.

I don't know what your symptoms are, but it's good to keep a food diary and keep track of how you feel after eating.

Take care!

Edited to add: I don't buy the "LC diet causes IBS" argument. Most people that have it don't LC. I'm pretty sure my IBS was caused by too many antibiotics and stress.Thanks, Niki. Keeping a food journal is a good idea and I know I should have been doing that. It's just so hard to imagine that vegatables would cause a problem! I have tried to keep the veg input pretty high, particularly with things like spinach. So I'll add this to my list of things to think about.

[SidC]

You need to read Life Without Bread by Dr. Lutz, which outlines how he treats intestinal disorders with a low-carb diet. One of his other books - only available in German - covers those topics more thoroughly. For many of the disorders, fiber is not your friend...OK, found this on Amazon. It got stellar reviews! :thup: I look forward to reading what Dr Lutz has to say- thanks for tip.

[SidC]

One of the classic symptoms of type 2 diabetes is intestional problems. It is NOT caused by low carb diet. How irresponsible of your doctor to suggest this. And at my current weight, with or without my LC diet, type 2 diabetes seems pretty unlikely. Appreciate input from you, Nancy and Bladegem on whether LC could be involved.

Nice website links, thanks! I hadn't found any of these. (I particularly like the HSI Baltimore site - her piece on antioxidants was very funny!)

[SidC]

IBS isn't really a diagnosis of anything. Its a "we don't want to be bothered to figure out the real reason" or a "we don't know". OK, I'll challenge my doc on this.

A lot of people really love the SCD diet (I do it but without dairy products) because it is so healing for the intestines. www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info is the main web site.Wow, SCD would be quite a change from Atkins with the honey and fructose - I followed your link and read the intro and meal suggestions. I'd be really nervous about bringing sugar back in - but you've had good luck with this?

Have to admit, I'm hoping its just stress, and that when work things get back to normal about six months from now, so will the physical things.

[SidC]

So it is harder to go? I think I may have this problem, I have to take Sennakot or I pretty much DON'T go at all and I get all bloated and terrible feeling, I think I have always had this, even before low carb -_-. And you just sit there...nothing happens, nothing substancial at least. Is that what your getting? I hate having to take laxatives....Harder, no, not most of the time. More like false signals. And this is completely new for me. Ha - I've reached the age where new is not good...

[Ayustar]

Aww, I see I see, I don't know what my issue is, always been like that. So you feel as if you have to but nothing happens or at least nothing spectacular.

I just gotta get some stuff to regulate it I think.

[kebaldwin]

And at my current weight, with or without my LC diet, type 2 diabetes seems pretty unlikely.

Why? What health symptoms did you have before you started dieting?

[Nancy LC]

OK, I'll challenge my doc on this.

Wow, SCD would be quite a change from Atkins with the honey and fructose - I followed your link and read the intro and meal suggestions. I'd be really nervous about bringing sugar back in - but you've had good luck with this?

Have to admit, I'm hoping its just stress, and that when work things get back to normal about six months from now, so will the physical things.

Its really up to you how much sugar you eat, you don't need to eat it. I'm using liquid splenda still.

Oh yes, I find that milk products do a real number on my intestines in addition to wheat. As often as not, they made me constipated.

Here's a really nice explanation of the diet: http://www.pecanbread.com/scdscience.html#kids

[SidC]

Why? What health symptoms did you have before you started dieting?That's such a hard question, because I was undiagnosed hypothyroid for five years or more before I started Atkins in 2003. I started this diet and synthroid replacement at the same time, but I was almost in a myxedemic coma at that point. So I had a lot of symptoms - extreme fatigue, unexplained weight gain, hair loss, severe gas and bloating, mental fog and confusion, joint pain - all hypo symptoms.

All of those things resolved once I started on Synthroid and Atkins, except after about a year, the bloating returned. Then the gas, then this new stuff.

I figured it wasn't Type II diabetes given that I've lost the weight. Is that an incorrect assumption?

Thanks for link, Nancy - will check out tomorrow.

[kebaldwin]

I was getting all the type 2 diabetes symptoms before I started low carbing -- including bowel problems. Everything cleared up on low carbing.

But when I cheat -- most of it comes back. So I don't know that you ever really escape it. Once you have it -- you have it for life. Losing weight does not mean you don't have it anymore. (we've had this debate on this forum before).

It could be that you started adding foods back into your diet that you did not eat while losing weight,

OR

you have a food allergy / intolerance. Mine is calcium. If I over consume calcium -- my bowels go crazy.

You might want to try going back to a very simple diet, hold that for two weeks (wait for your bowels to settle down), add something new for two weeks (see if your bowels remain okay or go crazy), then add one food for two weeks, ...

I doubt most doctors believe in, or know about, food allergies / intolerances,

[NYNikki]

I doubt most doctors believe in, or know about, food allergies / intolerances,

I 100% agree.

And some doctor's don't 'update' their skill as a doctor to today’s new discoveries of illnesses and cures.

I suffered years, yes years of stomach problems and went to several different doctors and got no answer.

So, I diagnosed myself - then worked on curing myself.

Well, today my stomach issues are gone. :spin:

[SidC]

It could be that you started adding foods back into your diet that you did not eat while losing weight, Well, I did things "by the book" - added carbs back in gradually throughout OWL until the weight loss stalled, then backed off a bit and have been maintaining ever since. I couldn't bring the level up much, as it turned out, but that's OK - I don't miss potatoes, white rice, or white bread. Or sugar-laden desserts. (I have to confess to craving pizza every once in a while :yum: I haven't had a slice of pizza since May 2003! But who's counting...)
OR

you have a food allergy / intolerance. Mine is calcium. If I over consume calcium -- my bowels go crazy.

You might want to try going back to a very simple diet, hold that for two weeks (wait for your bowels to settle down), add something new for two weeks (see if your bowels remain okay or go crazy), then add one food for two weeks, ...

I doubt most doctors believe in, or know about, food allergies / intolerances,I'm wondering seriously about a food intolerance/allergy. My doc is pretty open to things like this, though he likes to check out the more "normal" answers first. I don't really want to deal with a nutritionist - have read too many horror stories here about their reaction to Atkins. So I'll discuss this with him - thanks!

And good you found a self-cure, NYNikki. Frustrating to go all those years with no help from the establishment, but at least *you* finally figured it out.

[Nancy LC]

SidC you're unlikely to get a good diagnosis of a food intolerance from your doctor. The only sort they detect is end-stage celiac disease, which requires lots of blood tests and a endoscopy biopsy and is rife with false negatives(who improve via diet).

I'd suggest that you try a diet like SCD and gradually add in foods and see where your sensitivities are by keeping a food journal.

[kebaldwin]

Well, I did things "by the book" - added carbs back in gradually throughout OWL until the weight loss stalled, then backed off a bit and have been maintaining ever since.

I think I did a bad job of explaining. I did not mean that you should not have added carbs back in -- it does sound like you did that correctly.

What I meant is that one of the foods you now eat -- could be causing your problems. To find out if there is a bad food you eat -- you have to almost eliminate every food you eat -- and then add one food in every two weeks and see what changes you see/feel in your body. It is hard to find.

For example, mine is calcium. If I cut back to only eggs and cheese for every meal for two weeks -- I would still have problems -- because I would be eating so much cheese -- I would be getting a lot of calcium and my problems would not change.

I cut back to just eggs for breakfast, hamburger for lunch, and steak for dinner. Only drink distilled water. Did this for two weeks. Felt great. then I noticed that as I added foods that contained calcium - like cheese, sour cream, low carb ice cream, etc) -- by bowels went crazy.

To find out if you have a food allergy / intolerance problem -- you might have to do the same thing -- eliminate all foods then add one in per week or two.

Is this any better explanation (doesn't sound like it to me).

[Nancy LC]

Did this for two weeks. Felt great. then I noticed that as I added foods that contained calcium - like cheese, sour cream, low carb ice cream, etc) -- by bowels went crazy.

Sounds like a casein or lactose intolerance problem to me. I can't do dairy either.

[kebaldwin]

Sounds like a casein or lactose intolerance problem to me. I can't do dairy either.

I don't know what casien is -- but it is not lactose. I tried low lactose stuff and still had problems. I can take plain calcium supplements and have major problems.

What I do is typically eat a couple of slices of cheese most days and take lots of fats and fat soluble vitamins.

[Nancy LC]

Casein is the protein in dairy products. That's what I'm sensitive to, as well.

[SidC]

Sounds like a casein or lactose intolerance problem to me. I can't do dairy either.Hi, sorry have been insanely busy (one of the reasons I still suspect stress in all this!), but..

based on previous discussion, I was becoming very suspicious about cheese (be still, my heart!). (I love good cheese and, I hate to say it, but in Canada we can still buy very, very good cheese since CA has not yet banned the import of unpasteurized cheese. Sorry, I digress...)

So I cut way back on cheese for a week, things started to improve, and then I started to bring it back in. Things continued to improve. Then three days ago, I did an Indian dinner with sag paneer (spinach and cheese) and a black bean dal. Bloat! It was not a huge amount of either- maybe a few ounces of cheese and a few Tbs of the dal. But one or the other seems to be the culprit. So my next experiment will be th cheese witout the dal. Boy, - I'd way rather give up legumes than cheese, though it would be nice to have a bit of both. Can't always get what we want, though, eh?

Thanks, all, for your advice and insights -

[kebaldwin]

Congrats! Sounds like you are well on your way to finding out what 100 doctors (not to mention thousands of $) would never figure out.

Instead of figuring out your food allergies / intolerances -- you could take all kinds of prescription drugs and perhaps have your colon removed. (I'm being a smart a$$)

[SidC]

Thanks, all. Things on the work side still insane, so I haven't done more formal experimentation until I could focus on it. Things have been good the last few weeks. Informally, I don't think it's cheese (yes!). I think it was the legumes in the dal (still a sadness - I loved that dal). But I don't have any problems with the whole wheat/flax seed LC cereal I have for breakfast four days a week. I have essentially dismissed the IBS diagnosis at this point (have my colon removed, indeed!) So - ball's in my court. Will let you know if I have any "a ha's." You've all been great - thanks so much. (And Nancy, i still laugh every time I see the bunny thief.)

Cheers to you all,
Sid

[PS Diva]

I have read all the posts on this thread, and I see several different causes for IBS have already been mentioned. Food, drugs, and stress are biggies. (ALthough I personally hate when they blame stress for anything. It is like saying if you just could control your emotions better you wouldn't feel so sick!)

But no one has mentioned that often is is related to the hormonal change in the menstrual cycle. If that is the cause, Ibuprofen would help a great deal. And if that isn't the cause of the episode then it probably won't help, and might even hurt!