"Fear of Fat"

[Jen B]

Most of us on this forum were born at a time (or after) when the widespread low fat, low cholesterol rhetoric began in this country. We have been raised to fear fat, especially saturated fat. We have been told that saturated fat and cholesterol are the causes not only of obesity, but heart disease and other illnesses plaguing our population.

Well, the truth is coming out, slowly but surely. We have all been lied to. There are many theories as to why we have been lied to, whether it be through ignorance or through some sinister or clandestine agenda, but the fact is: IT IS NOT SATURATED FAT OR CHOLESTEROL THAT IS THE CULPRIT. IT IS SUGAR, GRAINS, HIGH CARBS, STARCH.

Mental programming dies hard. We are all programmed with a fear of fat and cholesterol. The only way to get over it is to research and read and experiment with our own physiologies.

Did you know? Mother's milk provides a higher proportion of cholesterol than almost any other food. It also contains over 50% of its calories as fat, much of it saturated fat. Both cholesterol and saturated fat are essential for growth in babies and children, especially the development of the brain... Yet, the American Heart Association is now recommending a low-cholesterol, lowfat diet for children! Commercial formulas are low in saturated fats and soy formulas are devoid of cholesterol. A recent study linked lowfat diets with failure to thrive in children... http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/17/saturated_fat1.htm The link at the end of the quote contains a very lengthy excerpt from "Nourishing Traditions: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats" by Sally Fallon with Mary G. Enig, PhD (NewTrends Publishing 2000. It's a fascinating, enlightening read. It is well worth every minute it takes to peruse and absorb the material. If you want to begin to give up your fear of fat and cholesterol, sit down with a refreshing LC drink of your choice and read it through. It really clears up a lot of questions and concerns.

I'd love to start a discussion here about the truth about fats and cholesterol, and the effort to give up the dreaded "Fear of Fat."

[sunrise02]

Jen, Thanks for starting this discussion. There is so much information as well as misininformation available. This forum has helped me to be better informed.

However, I struggle daily with the psychological effects. Even tho' I want to believe with all my heart that y'all are right----I fight the battle of guilt everyday in my mind! I am doing 70/25/5 M & E at this time and subconsciously, I truly FEAR waking up to find I have gained 50 lbs instead of losing!!

Manaburn suggested I adopt "I have been lied to" as my mantra. I wish it was that easy. Everyday--I see more low fat propaganda. I feel so wishy-washy!

I want to believe what I read on this forum but it still unsettles me. Maybe it is the "if it's too good to be true" thing that holds me back from being able to embrace this WOE completely.

Thanks for opening this thread.

S

[Tina-My]

This has been my main struggle and hurdle with the
WOE. I will do great for 2 months and look into one of those magazines full of lies and get really scared about the amount of fat I am eating. This always tosses me off the wagon. I really need to get it into my head I have been lied to and then maybe I can succeed. Thanks for the post.

[yogamom]

I too am thankful for this thread. When I look at my adult life, I have been heavy 2 times. Both have been when I was "Watching" my weight (rise steadily) on Dr. Ornish's plan. This last time was triggered by my inlaws who have been very successfully reversing their heart disease. My MIL is upset about my new WOL. She is convinced that I'm hurting myself. Meanwhile, her weight is creeping up on her. I so want to direct her towards SB at least! I think that women (at least the ones I know) are more inclined to carbo load w/ bread on a lf diet. They are in maintenance, and eat meat a few times a week, and I see dad reach for another slice of pork, and mom grab another roll. Boy do I remember those days of denial. We have been lied to, and continue to be lied to. Everything about the added fat in my diet is a plus for me! I use less conditioner, less lotion, have fewer breakouts...not to mention that EVERY SINGLE SYMPTOM OF HYPERINSULINISM that I exhibited (which is most of them) Vanished. Gone. Almost immediately. My kids have their mom back! MY DH has his randy little lovebug back. I have me back! Burger anyone? Extra cheese and bacon???

[sunrise02]

I appreciate it it so much when people share the BENEFITS they have experienced with this WOE. It helps confirm that this is the way to go.

I do remember that, when I did a low fat diet years ago after my children were born, my hair fell out, what was left was thin and my nails were in terrible condition. My skin was horribly dry and lackluster.

Coconut oil has changed that! Maybe, all the other fat I am eating as well.

So--where did all the lies get started, anyway!? WHY did they think heart disease, high cholesteral, obesity, etc., was FAT related? Maybe if we go to where "the axehead was lost" we can reprogram our faulty thinking.

[JL53563]

It took me about a year to get over the "fear of fat" thing. When I first started Atkins, I remember thinking, "ok if this doesn't work, I am going to gain 50 lbs in no time." I was not worried about calories, and eating about 70% fat. Well, the weight immediately started falling off, so I felt pretty good. I was still a little uneasy about the high fat, though. Then, after doing Atkins for about 14 months I had a complete physical. Theh Dr. said everything was great, and my cholesterol numbers were excellent. At that point I was convinced that this was the proper way to eat. I have been at it for over 3 years now and have never felt better.

[sunrise02]

It took me about a year to get over the "fear of fat" thing. When I first started Atkins, I remember thinking, "ok if this doesn't work, I am going to gain 50 lbs in no time." I was not worried about calories, and eating about 70% fat. Well, the weight immediately started falling off, so I felt pretty good. I was still a little uneasy about the high fat, though. Then, after doing Atkins for about 14 months I had a complete physical. Theh Dr. said everything was great, and my cholesterol numbers were excellent. At that point I was convinced that this was the proper way to eat. I have been at it for over 3 years now and have never felt better.

OH JL! That is music to my ears. What a great testimony to keep us on the path. I do want to look good, but more than anything, I want to be healthy! You have accomplished both.

Thank you for sharing your fantastic success! I needed that!

[Jen B]

About 6 months ago, at 241 lbs, I was shocked when my blood pressure was close to 200 over 90-something. Rather than take the BP medication, I started LC immediately. The BP immediately began to plummet. Now, it's in the 130s over 60-something. That' a huge improvement in a very short time!

I am 53 and I do not exercise (yet) because of a chronic pain/fatigue syndrome. I have lost 44 lbs in 6 months. This, to me, is an amazing accomplishment. As I lose weight and improve my health, my pain is starting to lessen, and soon I think I'll be able to incorporate some form of exercise.

I eat lots of saturated fat and cholesterol, and lots of protein: over 2 T of coconut oil every day, lots of eggs, animal fat, fatty fish, homemade mayo made with walnut oil, fish oil, olive oil. I never count calories, only carbs. Here are my numbers from a typical day:

1949 calories 151 fat grams 9 carbs 129 protein grams

Why Have We Been Lied To? That is the question of the day. Here's a theory I have:

The FDA, the AMA, and Big Pharma are all in bed together, and have been for quite a few decades. The big mega-corporations are in there too. It's all about $$$$. And how are those dollars generated? Big bucks are tossed in their direction only if people are ill. The 'powers that be' are not concerned about our health. They only thrive when we are sick. The doctors are owned by the AMA and Big Pharma, and they are trained to 'push drugs' and they promote sickness, not health. I'm not saying that doctors are all inherently evil. They've simply been trained (brainwashed) like just about everybody else.

Our country is not a 'one nation under god' proposition anymore; it's a corporation. The food pyramid is a joke, and it is still being pushed on us to pad the pockets of the power elite.

The only way we can prove out our assumption that we've been lied to and that everything is backwards and upside down is to become our own doctors and take responsibility for ourselves. We become our own guinea pigs. We venture bravely out of the mainstream and into the fringes. We begin to think for ourselves and to turn off to the propaganda machine.

I personally don't read magazines or newspapers, don't watch television, and don't go to doctors unless it's an emergency. I've jumped off the bus. I do my research and I think for myself. One credo I've come to live by is this: If the mainstream is pushing something and everyone is soaking it up like a herd of cattle, it's probably a lie. That old adage, "If everybody's doin' it, it must be right" for me has become "If everybody's doin' it, it must be wrong." I question everything!

The propaganda machine is firmly in place and doing what it does best: hypnotizing people to succumb and believe in its agenda. To break free takes a strong act of will.

'Nuff said for now. Let's keep this going!

[Symphonyod]

can you all give me some more information on the issues of fat? My dh has recently started Atkins with me due to my begging, crying and bribing. He was doing lo cal and lo fat but LOADS of carbs. KWIM? So, he is now willing to eat what I do BUT I can't explain to him articulately how fat is actually good for you. TIA!

[sunrise02]

About 6 months ago, at 241 lbs, I was shocked when my blood pressure was close to 200 over 90-something. Rather than take the BP medication, I started LC immediately. The BP immediately began to plummet. Now, it's in the 130s over 60-something. That' a huge improvement in a very short time!

I am 53 and I do not exercise (yet) because of a chronic pain/fatigue syndrome. I have lost 44 lbs in 6 months. This, to me, is an amazing accomplishment. As I lose weight and improve my health, my pain is starting to lessen, and soon I think I'll be able to incorporate some form of exercise.

I eat lots of saturated fat and cholesterol, and lots of protein: over 2 T of coconut oil every day, lots of eggs, animal fat, fatty fish, homemade mayo made with walnut oil, fish oil, olive oil. I never count calories, only carbs. Here are my numbers from a typical day:

1949 calories 151 fat grams 9 carbs 129 protein grams

Why Have We Been Lied To? That is the question of the day. Here's a theory I have:

The FDA, the AMA, and Big Pharma are all in bed together, and have been for quite a few decades. The big mega-corporations are in there too. It's all about $$$$. And how are those dollars generated? Big bucks are tossed in their direction only if people are ill. The 'powers that be' are not concerned about our health. They only thrive when we are sick. The doctors are owned by the AMA and Big Pharma, and they are trained to 'push drugs' and they promote sickness, not health. I'm not saying that doctors are all inherently evil. They've simply been trained (brainwashed) like just about everybody else.

Our country is not a 'one nation under god' proposition anymore; it's a corporation. The food pyramid is a joke, and it is still being pushed on us to pad the pockets of the power elite.

The only way we can prove out our assumption that we've been lied to and that everything is backwards and upside down is to become our own doctors and take responsibility for ourselves. We become our own guinea pigs. We venture bravely out of the mainstream and into the fringes. We begin to think for ourselves and to turn off to the propaganda machine.

I personally don't read magazines or newspapers, don't watch television, and don't go to doctors unless it's an emergency. I've jumped off the bus. I do my research and I think for myself. One credo I've come to live by is this: If the mainstream is pushing something and everyone is soaking it up like a herd of cattle, it's probably a lie. That old adage, "If everybody's doin' it, it must be right" for me has become "If everybody's doin' it, it must be wrong." I question everything!

The propaganda machine is firmly in place and doing what it does best: hypnotizing people to succumb and believe in its agenda. To break free takes a strong act of will.

'Nuff said for now. Let's keep this going!


Conspiracy effort, huh? Sheesh. It is very possible. Seems like when $$$ are involved, anything is possible

Boggles my brain. Maybe I cannot change the world but I am responsible for my little corner of the world--and it is going to be a LOW CARB corner!

LCers--REVOLT!

Jen--GREAT progress! Thanks for the encouragement!

[Jen B]

From YogaMom: MY DH has his randy little lovebug back. Oh yeah, baby!

Symphonyod: The link in my first post tells almost everything you would ever want to know about the truth behind fat and cholesterol. Maybe your DH would gain a lot by reading it.

Something just occurred to me. What is bread without the butter, the meat, the cheese, the mayo? What is pasta without the meatballs, the parmesan, the cream, the lc marinara sauce? What is a baked potato without the sour cream, the butter, the cheese? There is a reason why fat and protein taste so gd good! It's because it is SO GOOD for us! My 4 yoa granddaughter sits down to a meal and all she wants is the meat or the cheese. Her mother tries to push the peas or potatoes on her, to make her eat in a more "rounded" way, and she refuses.

On the other hand, lowfat stuff, at least to me, tastes like empty, cardboard-like crap. Skim milk? Mmmm! Plain broccoli? Yummy! Dry toast? Oh boy, can't wait!

Now carbs are a different thing. They are addictive. They have opioids in them. Once they're present in our diet in a big way, we get hooked. We end up craving them and for those of us with an addictive biochemistry, we gorge on them and they rule us. When they are removed from the diet, we quickly lose our cravings for them.

Not so with meat and fat. When's the last time you remember ODing on a big, juicy steak? Or on a nice bowl of melted garlic butter? No. We don't overeat or lose control on these things. They're concentrated and they're satisfying. They're real food. They hit the spot. A little goes a long way. And we never lose our taste for them.

Damn, I'm getting hungry. I'm gonna fry some Omega 3 eggs and leftover, well-marbled steak in ghee and enjoy!

[AuntJoyce]

Gary Taubes has a new book coming out at the end of this month called "A Big Fat Lie". I preordered it from Amazon. I hope he gets as much publicity from this book as his watershed article from 2002 which is posted on this site. I believe he is a well respected scientific journalist.

http://www.lowcarb.ca/articlesb/article344.html

Just have to say I have never been that afraid of fat. I did research to find any negative aspects of Atkins before I started. I couldn't find anything negative that was substantiated by a study. I still haven't. On the contrary, I've found hundreds of articles and many books that say fat is good. The study that showed fat is bad had lumped saturated fats in with trans fats.

Fats are like the Air Force SR-71 as far is insulin is concerned -- not detected and no response.

Besides, I LOVE butter. I don't eat it on bread anymore, but I love it on green beens and broccoli. I used to lick it and share with my cat when I was a kid. I also ate the marrow out of beef bones.

[sunrise02]

Gary Taubes may be my new favorite author! I certainly will add this to my "to read" stack.

If veterans can blame the Military for their cigarette caused lung cancer and McD's customers blame The Golden Arches for their obesity, maybe diabetes sufferers can blame the Government and their $%&*#~! Food Pyramid for their condition.

What a travesty. They should be held accountable.

Yes, I believe it is true--We have been DUPED!!

[Fikirimi]

Jen,

Yes, I did know the information you posted, and it's good you brought it up. In the Atkins diet, it says that eating fat is not the problem, and I believe it. Even the human brain is made up of well over 70% fat.

Fat is harder to digest than carbs, so it keeps you from getting hungry again too soon. I know this from my own experience as well as from everything I've read. If I eat low-fat hamburger meat or cut the fat off the steak when I'm on Atkins, I get hungry much sooner than if I don't.

I just tried a new recipe: mashed cauliflower with lots of butter, cream and several different kinds of cheeses. It was offered as a "mashed potato substitute." It sounds like a heart attack on a platter, doesn't it? It was wonderful and very tasty because it was basically mashed fat with some vegetable inside. I had it with dinner as a side dish. Next day I took some to work as my entree for lunch. I couldn't even finish the amount I brought with me, and I wasn't hungry all afternoon because it is so loaded with fat from the cheese, butter and cream. Had it again for lunch today, and I ate even less of it than yesterday and STILL wasn't hungry all afternoon. I lost two pounds in the last three days eating all I wanted of this tasty, fat-laden dish and I have not been hungry between meals, which for me if I'm eating too many carbs is a constant problem.

You are absolutely right. The problem comes when you try to eat that way and are also having French bread and ice cream. Most people freak out about fat, yet you can easily find reports that the French, who are known for having cheese and butter loaded diets, are one of the most heart-healthy cultures on the planet. In addition to the red wine, which we don't drink even a fraction of what they do, the French are not sugar addicts like Americans. They eat sweets in moderation. Even their candy has less sugar than ours.

But this myth that all fat is bad dies hard, which is why I will never discuss what I eat or when I'm dieting with any of my co-workers or anyone else, members of this board excepted. I get tired of the debate, but more so of defending my choices, which I know are right for me.

Marie

[Jen B]

Every morning, I melt about 3 T. of coconut oil, grind up 2 T. of flax seeds, add in 1 t. cinnamon, and a shake of stevia. I pour the mixture onto some cling wrap that I've placed in a small tupperware lid, then put it in the frig or freezer to harden. I eat it like a cookie with my coffee for breakfast. It sticks with me for hours.

I don't think fat is harder to digest than carbs. It is just slower, stays in the stomach longer, and requires a different process. Fat is very nutrient-dense and is absolutely required by the body. Carbs are not really required at all.

What I haven't tried yet is deep-fried bacon. (Just kidding, :lol: )

[JandLsMom]

Jen,
Thanks for posting this. I am way over my fear of fat..lol. Actually i never really feared it too much. i only did a low fat diet once and almost ended up with anorexia because of it. I was ALWAYS hungry on that diet too! . My problem for many years was i ate all the fat AND all the carbs...lol. Now i am perfectly satisfied with JUST the FAT!! Its so bizarre that we were all soooo duped! It's sad that many people are STILL duped!!

[Ayustar]

Deep fried bacon rules. Trust me, hahaha.

I hate the fact that fat is soooo demonized, we have totally been lied to. It is rediculous. They were always pushing grains, always saying meat or proteins were bad and fats are evil. No one really mentioned sugars, they really said to avoid candy as your main staple. That should just be a "DUH" wherever you come from. God....fat of course is also bad in conjunction with high carb, that is bad, and I think that is the only time fat is bad when it goes hand in hand with carbs. It just makes it much worse.

Then what pisses me off more is that I get judged on my choices with what I eat and what I don't. Well, I don't know, I think I want to be healthy and not fat. I will eat fat to lose fat. I know people can't wrap their minds around that one because of the lies they have been fed, well, those lies are just keeping them fat or making them fatter. People can't embrace change, and it's not even a fact that HAS changed...people just didn't realize it or didn't want to realize it and you KNOW there is $$$ involved here. It just makes me really angry. Oh well, I will keep eating mayo and coconut oil, damn them and I will be just fine, we all will, we know better.

[Jen B]

fat of course is also bad in conjunction with high carb Or stated a little differently, fat is never bad; it's always the high carb. :)

Ayustar, I hear where you're coming from on being pissed off about people judging our choices and the fact that we've been duped. That is my initial reaction too. But then, as the injustice of it all sinks in and I make my own choices and I move away from the main stream, I realize that all those people served an important purpose for me. They helped me to wake up and shake off the hypnosis, the brainwashing, and to take charge of my own fate. Those people are the ones that serve as an impetus for me to make positive, empowering change. Once I get to that point, I can thank them.

I love the message in your signature, by the way. It acknowledges that we consist of both dark and light, and that the two are actually one. Without judgment of the dark, it can be incorporated into the light. That's kind of what I was talking about above. If we judge the naysayers and liars as negative, then we create a rift that doesn't need to exist. But if we acknowledge them for their purpose in the "whole," then we are free. Does that make sense?

Anyway, speaking of fats, I think it's crucial to distinguish the trans fats out from the rest of them. Anything hydrogenated is trans fat. That includes most bottled salad dressings and mayos. Hydrogenated oil is found in an insane amount of packaged foods. That's why I just make my own stuff and rarely buy anything out of a bottle or package.

What I do is buy expeller or cold pressed oils and make my own mayo and salad dressing. It's SO easy with a blender or food processor to make the creamiest mayo and dressings ever. I use either virgin olive oil or walnut oil for mayo and dressings. Nut oils are really tasty! If anyone wants to know how to make a killer mayo in just a few minutes, let me know. It doesn't taste quite like commercial mayo, of course, but you acquire a taste for it rapidly, IMO.

I avoid canola oil and soy oil (or anything soy for that matter) like the plague, hydrogenated or not. I avoid vegetable oils in general (because there are so many conflicting opinions about their healthfulness), except olive oil (which I don't think is a vegetable anyway).

I use bacon fat (from uncured bacon from the HFS), organic ghee (clarified butter), and Tropical Traditions coconut oil for cooking or sauteing. And then, of course, I eat my whopping serving of virgin coconut oil (or coconut cream-heaven!) daily for all the good health benefits it provides, including help with my weight loss.

That brings us down to eggs, fatty fish, chicken skin/fat, and fat on meat. I definitely always buy organic (no hormones/antibiotics), and I get as much grass-fed meat/chicken as I can. I have a box freezer and order it online. I get organic Omega 3 eggs from the health food store.

On fish, I eat salmon (usually smoked in our smoker-OMG-to die for!) and tuna packaged in water. I know they say that most fish is contaminated these days. That's kind of where I close my eyes and hope that anything tainted about fish will be overshadowed by all the good food choices I make. I love fish!!! And certainly don't want to do without it.

The Omega 3/6 balance thing is something else to consider, I think. From all the years of eating grain and grain-fed animals, we have been existing on very little Omega 3 and an over-abundance of Omega 6, with disastrous health consequences. Eliminating grain from the diet helps a lot. I read that a normal grocery store egg contains Omega 6/3 in a ratio of 19/1, whereas an organic Omega 3 egg from a free range chicken is 1/1. That's quite a difference!

One way to help with the balance is taking flax oil (which is expensive) or 2 T of flaxseeds (ground as you use them) per day (which is fairly cheap). Another way is fish oil (I use Carlson's), which is still expensive but it goes a long way. Because I eat flaxseeds every day and I eat Omega 3 eggs and something grass-fed nearly every day, I don't always supplement with the fish oil.

If anyone sees any flaws in my logic in any of this, I would welcome your comments.

Have a great fat-eating, non-hungry day!

[sunrise02]

Or stated a little differently, fat is never bad; it's always the high carb. :)

Ayustar, I hear where you're coming from on being pissed off about people judging our choices and the fact that we've been duped. That is my initial reaction too. But then, as the injustice of it all sinks in and I make my own choices and I move away from the main stream, I realize that all those people served an important purpose for me. They helped me to wake up and shake off the hypnosis, the brainwashing, and to take charge of my own fate. Those people are the ones that serve as an impetus for me to make positive, empowering change. Once I get to that point, I can thank them.

I love the message in your signature, by the way. It acknowledges that we consist of both dark and light, and that the two are actually one. Without judgment of the dark, it can be incorporated into the light. That's kind of what I was talking about above. If we judge the naysayers and liars as negative, then we create a rift that doesn't need to exist. But if we acknowledge them for their purpose in the "whole," then we are free. Does that make sense?

Anyway, speaking of fats, I think it's crucial to distinguish the trans fats out from the rest of them. Anything hydrogenated is trans fat. That includes most bottled salad dressings and mayos. Hydrogenated oil is found in an insane amount of packaged foods. That's why I just make my own stuff and rarely buy anything out of a bottle or package.

What I do is buy expeller or cold pressed oils and make my own mayo and salad dressing. It's SO easy with a blender or food processor to make the creamiest mayo and dressings ever. I use either virgin olive oil or walnut oil for mayo and dressings. Nut oils are really tasty! If anyone wants to know how to make a killer mayo in just a few minutes, let me know. It doesn't taste quite like commercial mayo, of course, but you acquire a taste for it rapidly, IMO.

I avoid canola oil and soy oil (or anything soy for that matter) like the plague, hydrogenated or not. I avoid vegetable oils in general (because there are so many conflicting opinions about their healthfulness), except olive oil (which I don't think is a vegetable anyway).

I use bacon fat (from uncured bacon from the HFS), organic ghee (clarified butter), and Tropical Traditions coconut oil for cooking or sauteing. And then, of course, I eat my whopping serving of virgin coconut oil (or coconut cream-heaven!) daily for all the good health benefits it provides, including help with my weight loss.

That brings us down to eggs, fatty fish, chicken skin/fat, and fat on meat. I definitely always buy organic (no hormones/antibiotics), and I get as much grass-fed meat/chicken as I can. I have a box freezer and order it online. I get organic Omega 3 eggs from the health food store.

On fish, I eat salmon (usually smoked in our smoker-OMG-to die for!) and tuna packaged in water. I know they say that most fish is contaminated these days. That's kind of where I close my eyes and hope that anything tainted about fish will be overshadowed by all the good food choices I make. I love fish!!! And certainly don't want to do without it.

The Omega 3/6 balance thing is something else to consider, I think. From all the years of eating grain and grain-fed animals, we have been existing on very little Omega 3 and an over-abundance of Omega 6, with disastrous health consequences. Eliminating grain from the diet helps a lot. I read that a normal grocery store egg contains Omega 6/3 in a ratio of 19/1, whereas an organic Omega 3 egg from a free range chicken is 1/1. That's quite a difference!

One way to help with the balance is taking flax oil (which is expensive) or 2 T of flaxseeds (ground as you use them) per day (which is fairly cheap). Another way is fish oil (I use Carlson's), which is still expensive but it goes a long way. Because I eat flaxseeds every day and I eat Omega 3 eggs and something grass-fed nearly every day, I don't always supplement with the fish oil.

If anyone sees any flaws in my logic in any of this, I would welcome your comments.

Have a great fat-eating, non-hungry day!


Thanks for the info, Jen. Good guidelines and impressive.

I would like to work toward being that consistent. Right now, I cannot afford the organic diet even though I think it may be best. The other problem is--I wonder if all that stuff REALLY is organic or if they just tell us it is. You know, when you've been DUPED, you begin to be wary of everything!

So, if we are eating sooo many "unbalanced" grocery store eggs--are we in danger of Omega 6 overload?

If you were to prepare something like "hot wings" (or deep fried bacon, lol) what oil would you use?

Thanks, Jen!

[AuntJoyce]

Speaking of hot wings -- I made some extra good oven fried chicken thighs last weekend and I thought this technique could be used for wings. I had saved my bacon fat. And by the way, I baked 2 packages of bacon in a large baking sheet and then I freeze the cooked bacon. That way I can grab one or two slices at a time.

Preheat oven to 425 F. I usually bake my chicken in my broiler pan. This time, I smeared it liberally with the bacon grease. I rubbed a nice cajun spice on the chicken. Place chicken on the broiler pan skin side DOWN first. Bake for about 30 minutes and then turn for another 30-45 minutes. The bacon grease helps make the skin nice and crispy.

But being a northerner, I just can't get used to that vinegary sauce ya'll use down there in the south!

Jen: How long does your homemade mayo keep in the fridge? Or do you just make one serving at a time? I've gone mostly organic too. Grass fed beef has so much more CLA which can help in weight loss and other things. I have located local farms on the internet and would like to visit them and buy their beef one of these days.

[Jen B]

From Sunrise02: Right now, I cannot afford the organic diet even though I think it may be best. The other problem is--I wonder if all that stuff REALLY is organic or if they just tell us it is. You know, when you've been DUPED, you begin to be wary of everything! Sunrise, I know what you mean. For me, it's just me and my husband. Were both purists. We stop at the produce isle and the meat counter at our local HFS and that's basically it. Our grocery list usually has under 10 items on it! I guess it's just a matter of trust that the stuff is what they say it is. One will never know for sure!!

If I were going to deep fry something, I would use Tropical Traditions expeller pressed coconut oil (it doesn't have the coconut flavor) because it withstands a great amount of heat. I think the nut oils would work too.

From AuntJoyce: But being a northerner, I just can't get used to that vinegary sauce ya'll use down there in the south! Ha! You must be talking about my Arizona Gunslinger Habenero Sauce! I love that stuff!

From AuntJoyce: How long does your homemade mayo keep in the fridge? Or do you just make one serving at a time? I make 1 cup at a time and it's supposed to be ok for a week. Don't think I'd go longer than that. It has a raw egg in it.

[Hellistile]

Once I discovered low carb, it was very difficult for me to get over my fat phobia. Took me about 1 year. However, last night I made chicken breasts fried in lard, with a sauce I made with onions and mushrooms (fried in coconut oil and lard), sour cream, dill and heavy cream. I am now looking for ways to add fat to the meat, lol. Keeping hard copies of bloodwork results reinforces that this way of eating is great for the body.

[gryfonclaw]

I usually buy organic eggs whenever I can (cause I can do $4 a pop versus $20+ for organic meats).

I do have a question...where can one find lard? Whenever I ask a clerk at the grocery store they just kinda look at me funny....

Jen B, I shop Tropical Traditions for my CO too...I've recently switched from the Virgin CO to the Expeller pressed cause it's cheaper...think that'll work just as well?

I also have difficulty consuming enough coconut oil in a day...do you have any suggestions? Plus, how do you make your mayo? I'm trying to avoid soy also.

Thanks for your help!

[mama22boys]

I think that part of the reason the saturated fat and cholesterol have gotten such a bad reputation with regard to heart healthy diets is because that was/is what was/is found in the arteries when doctors takes a look at those with heart disease. The reason...sat.fat and cholesterol are in there repairing the damage done by things like trans fat (which become rancid and toxic), free radicals, and the damage done when insulin spikes and plummets in the blood (due to simple carb/high carb/processed carb crap). Those things cause small lesions to form in the arteries and sat. fat and cholesterol go in to heal that. So the sat.fat and cholesterol that were found 'clogging' the arteries were actually masking the real problem and were instead used as a easy answer/scapegoat. High sat. fat and cholesterol in the arteries should tip the doctors off that there is something else going seriously wrong in the body that is making all the sat. fat and cholesterol flood into the blood system to do some serious work.

The info was from the book "Politically Incorrect Nutrition." I can't remember the author but it was an interesting read. This may not be exactly what the book said, but that was the gist. If you are interested in getting the info straight from the horse's mouth than pick up the book.

[Jen B]

gryfonclaw: Here's how I eat my daily coconut oil: I melt about 3 T. of coconut oil, grind up 2 T. of flax seeds, add in 1 t. cinnamon, and a shake of stevia. If I'm feeling really decadent, I'll add 1-2 T almond butter or 1 oz of broken up pecans, as well as 1 T unsweetened cocoa. I pour the mixture onto some cling wrap that I've placed in a small tupperware lid, then put it in the frig or freezer to harden. I eat it like a cookie with my coffee for breakfast. Delicious! And it sticks with me for hours.

I like the flavored coconut oil for eating, but cook with the expeller pressed. I don't know about lard. I think you could get it from a butcher or farmer. I got some bison fat from the company I order grass-fed bison from online. One of these days, I'll render it and use it as lard.

Mayo:
1 egg
1 T lemon juice (could use vinegar or 1/2 each)
1/4 t dry mustard
1/4 t salt
pepper (I use cayenne)
1 c. walnut oil (or half olive)

Put first 5 ingreds in blender or food processor. Blend for 1/2 minute, then pour in oil in a thin steady stream through the food tube or hole in blender lid while machine is still running. By the time you pour in all the oil, it should be thick and creamy. If you're gonna use this for coleslaw dressing, add some stevia or other sweetner.

Mama22boys: That's very interesting about the artery clog thing. I never knew that. It explains a lot, I think. Thanks.

Hellistile: Sounds like you might be a good candidate for the deep-fried bacon. ;)

[sunrise02]

I think that part of the reason the saturated fat and cholesterol have gotten such a bad reputation with regard to heart healthy diets is because that was/is what was/is found in the arteries when doctors takes a look at those with heart disease. The reason...sat.fat and cholesterol are in there repairing the damage done by things like trans fat (which become rancid and toxic), free radicals, and the damage done when insulin spikes and plummets in the blood (due to simple carb/high carb/processed carb crap). Those things cause small lesions to form in the arteries and sat. fat and cholesterol go in to heal that. So the sat.fat and cholesterol that were found 'clogging' the arteries were actually masking the real problem and were instead used as a easy answer/scapegoat. High sat. fat and cholesterol in the arteries should tip the doctors off that there is something else going seriously wrong in the body that is making all the sat. fat and cholesterol flood into the blood system to do some serious work.

The info was from the book "Politically Incorrect Nutrition." I can't remember the author but it was an interesting read. This may not be exactly what the book said, but that was the gist. If you are interested in getting the info straight from the horse's mouth than pick up the book.

Mama22--That was the best explanation I have everheard. Sounds very plausible, too. Thanks!

As I was reading it--I was thinking about cattle--they eat grain and grass all the time and look at the FAT on them! So much for the "low fat-vegetarian concept." But, I guess they need it as protection from the elements.

[Ayustar]

Jen B, thanks for your comments. I know what you mean. I just figured fat in conjunction with carbs just makes them all the more dangerous. That was always my out look. It may be false but either way I am no demonizing the fat there, just the carbs, just the combination can't be good either way.

Yeah, taking into consideration about the people who can't embrace change, I understand what you mean. It may be hard for us taking all the flack but in the end I believe we are right. There is just too much research out there that proves this is the better way to do things...it should be out there, it should be accepted. I mean honestly, if people who have diabetes or other things do low carb or high fat with minimal carbs and they are able to control their illnesses without the use of medications, and their blood tests look fantastic AND they lose weight....where is the problem!? People just can't get it out of there minds and I think it is going to take society a long time to accept this.

[RedJodie]

You must be talking about my Arizona Gunslinger Habenero Sauce! I love that stuff!

Ok, is this a store bought sauce or something I can make at home? I love hot stuff..... :D

[Jen B]

Good morning, all fat-lovers everywhere!

RedJodie: Arizona Gunslinger is a company out of Mesa, AZ. They have a number of delicious hot products. I can get a couple of their sauces at the grocery stores here in Arizona, but there's much more available. Look at www.azgunslinger.com Their 'smokin hot jalepeno sauce' says "All natural ingredients: jalepeno peppers, vinegar, and salt."

I have been ordering grass-fed beef from this company: http://www.grasslandbeef.com/index.html I really like dealing with them. The shipping cost is included in with the price of the product, so there are no surprises. And I order one day and it is delivered the next day by DHL. I have talked with the owner several times on the phone, and he is so friendly and knowledgeable. I just ordered eye of round roasts and I make jerky out of them. Delicious!! (I made up a heavenly jerky marinade that is free of Worcesteshire and soy sauce, if anyone's interested.) I also buy their sugar-free hot dogs and ground beef. They even have pemmican in tubs and bars (meat mixed with fat).

At our HFS, they have organic lamb for a pretty reasonable price. I also have a good rosemary-lemon marinade for that. I asked the butcher there: "Is this grass-fed lamb?" He kind of smiled at me with a very tolerant look and said: "All lamb is grass-fed. They won't eat anything else!" I sure hope he's right. Does anyone know? Anyway, I'm trusting him for now and am really enjoying it.

From Sunrise02: So, if we are eating sooo many "unbalanced" grocery store eggs--are we in danger of Omega 6 overload? I would venture to say that anyone who hasn't done the research and adjusted their Omega EFA balance is suffering from Omega 6 overload. It is estimated that 85% or more of people in the Western world are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids and most get far too much of the omega-6 fatty acids. Vegetarian diets, for example, tend to be very high in omega-6. http://www.mercola.com/beef/omega3_oil.htm The above link is a pretty good article, even though I disagree with the statement in the first paragraph: "saturated fats from animal products should be kept to a minimum."

BTW, I forgot to mention that part of my daily routine is to take some Evening Primrose Oil, which I think is an important piece of the "fat balance" puzzle.

Ack, I'm running late for work. Gotta go! Have an excellent day!

[lynnp]

Wow, chatty, chatty people!!!

I love salmon raw with vinegar, soy and wasabi...yummy.

Jennifer, I'd love more VCO recipes you want to share...I just bought my first bottle.

Just a thought...people on low fat end up looking old and brittle for a reason...our cells, every one in the body is made up of a membrane called a protein lipid bilayer. What that means is that the outer membrane of every cell in your body is made up of protein and fat. If you eat low fat, your cells are weaker and they cannot function at an optimal level. There are also 4 vitamins (A,D, E, and K) which are fat soluble (only dissolve in fat) so you can become deficient on low fat. These are important vitamins too. So remember: along with your fat, you need to get enough protein to maintain your lean mass (take your weight and divide in half. That is the number of grams of protein you need each day at a minimum).

[Hellistile]

After that news item about the ONE woman who got ketoacidosis while doing the Atkins diet I gave up. Now whenever someone broaches diet in the office I just say "sorry can't hear you, I'm busy injecting bacon grease." I am going to become the epitomy of what the media believes an Atkins follower does. And, I'm going to implement ProfGumby's tactics of responding completely off topic. I'll let you know how that goes.

[lynnp]

This article was posted on another thread, but I thought it was perfect for the m/e thread: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/articl...1809326,00.html It is called "To lose body fat, eat more steak and eggs"

[Jen B]

Lynn: I couldn't get the link you posted to work. Can you try it again? Thanks for the info about protein and the effect of lowfat on the health of the cells and membranes. It makes perfect sense.

I don't have any other CO recipes, but I'm definitely going to try the butter mints idea posted in the M/E thread.

From Lynn: I love salmon raw with vinegar, soy and wasabi...yummy. Where do you get your wasabi? Do you thin-slice the salmon or what? I've been wanting to try something like this. I think I'd have to have some pickled ginger to go with it!

Hellistile: That's great about responding off topic. :lol: I like to give people something to think about! Besides, that would pretty much render them speechless and they wouldn't have a 'come back' for it! So that would kind of 'head them off at the pass' as far as giving me unwanted warnings and advice.

[lynnp]

Jennifer, you put the salmon in the freezer for 20 minutes or so and slice thin. I get the wasabi paste at the grocery store (stop and shop) and there are different brands. Check the Asian foods isle. :D I don't know why the link isn't working. Below is the article from the above link:

The Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/) October 04, 2005

Times2


To lose body fat, eat more steak and eggs
by Peta Bee

A protein-rich diet could help you to benefit more from exercise

Cook yourself steak and eggs before going to the gym — it could help you to lose more body fat, American researchers suggest.

For many years, pasta, energy bars and other high-carbohydrate foods have been the dietary staples of those looking for an immediate and long-lasting energy boost before exercise.

But a new study suggests that a protein-rich diet could help exercisers to get more out of their programme. Researchers at the University of Illinois department of nutrition science have discovered that such a diet “enhances the effectiveness of an exercise regimen” far better than the so-called “carbo-loading” usually favoured by those trying to get fitter. In the study of 48 women, published in the Journal of Nutrition, Professor Donald Layman and his colleagues found that those who replaced complex carbohydrate foods such as pasta, rice and wholemeal bread with high-protein foods such as dairy products and meat lost more body fat and had greater improvement in muscle tone.

For four months, the female subjects who took part were assigned either a high-protein or high-carbohydrate eating plan providing about 1,700 calories a day. In addition, the women were asked to follow one of two fitness programmes; either walking 30 minutes a day, five days a week, or walking the equivalent of 30 minutes every day and completing two weights sessions at the gym. Although all the women who followed the second, more demanding, workout schedule lost the same amount of weight, for those on the protein-rich diet the losses were almost totally from body fat.

In the carbohydrate group, however, one third of the weight lost came from muscle. “There’s an interactive effect when a protein-rich diet is combined with exercise and the two work together to correct body composition,” says Professor Layman. “Dieters lose more weight and they lose fat, not muscle, which is important.” The high-protein diet provided the exercisers with high levels of the essential amino acid leucine. Together with insulin, leucine stimulates protein synthesis in muscles, which keeps them strong and toned while allowing the body to burn fat.

To obtain what Layman refers to as “the metabolic advantage” of a high-protein diet, he recommends that exercisers add dairy, meat and eggs to their daily food intake while cutting down on carbohydrates, although not eliminating them completely. Healthy eating guidelines “do not provide enough leucine for adults to maintain healthy muscle”, he says. On average, a typical Western diet contains four to five grammes of leucine but “to get the effects we are seeing you would need to get nine to ten grammes a day”. The England rugby team adopted a higher protein and lower carbohydrate diet in the run-up to their victory in the 2003 Rugby World Cup. Although criticised at the time, it seems that the nutritional approach may well have contributed to the fitness levels that led to their success.

So does this signal a return to the footballers’ steak-and-egg diet of the 1970s? Jeanette Crosland, a consultant dietitian to the British Olympic Association, says that while dietary protein is known to be required to enhance the recovery of muscles after intense exercise, it should not be increased too greatly at the expense of all carbohydrate for people playing sport. “A high-carbohydrate snack along with some protein is particularly useful as an immediate pre-workout meal, ” Crosland says. But the type of carbohydrate consumed can also be influential. In two studies published recently in the International Journal of Sports Nutrition, Dr Emma Stevenson, a researcher at the University of Nottingham school of biomedical sciences, looked at how the glycemic index of a pre-workout meal affects performance.

Dr Stevenson gave athletes either a high-GI breakfast of cornflakes and milk, white bread with jam and a sports drink, or a low GI meal of muesli and milk, tinned peaches, an apple, a yoghurt and apple juice and asked them to carry out a 60-minute run three hours later. She found that the low-GI, pre-exercise meal was more beneficial in terms of improving performance.

“It promoted fat oxidation, sparing carbohydrate for use later in the run, which led to a significantly better performance.” Other studies have shown similar results. One, published in the International Journal of Sports Medicine a few years ago, found that elite cyclists who ate low-GI lentils an hour before exercise were able to keep going an average 20 minutes longer than those who ate high-GI mashed potato.

“There is plenty of evidence that eating a low-GI meal one hour before exercise can be helpful, but we have now shown that a three-hour gap offers improvements too, which means that if people eat a substantial breakfast or lunch they are set up to exercise at lunchtime or on the way home from work,” Dr Stevenson says. “It results in higher fat metabolism” — which means it will help you to lose weight as you get fit."

[Jen B]

I have gleefully discovered ghee!

Ghee is the traditional Sanskrit word for clarified butter (e.g., butter that has the milk solids and water removed). Having no milk solids, ghee has a longer shelf life and can be heated to much higher temperatures than butter without burning. And, I have found, it is sinfully delicious!

I have known for quite some time that butter, and therefore ghee, is a superior form of saturated fat, and have eaten butter freely in the past. But several months ago, when I started suspecting that I had an intolerance for dairy, I cut out butter too. Boy, have I missed butter!

What I didn't know about ghee is that people with dairy intolerance can eat it. I got a clue about this when I picked up a jar at the HFS and it said "no lactose, no casein." I grabbed a jar, even though it was about $8 a pound ( :eek: :exclm: ) and have been basking in glee! Eggs taste wonderful again! I can't wait to find some good lobster or crab! In the meantime, some jumbo shrimp sauteed in ghee/CO will suffice. :yum:

So now I'm going to soon try my hand at making my own ghee. I think I'm just gonna get the less expensive butter at Costco. I would think that with the solids being removed from it, it might not matter whether the butter is organic or not. Maybe I'm deluding myself here, but I think I'll take my chances. I know there's some direction on making ghee in the Paleo board, so I'll look it up when the time is right.

Speaking of dairy fat, here's something else I've incorporated in my diet: homemade half and half yogurt. I did a lot of research and found that fermenting yogurt for at least 24 hours removes all the lactose, as well as the carbs, and may even negate the casein. None of the commercial yogurts are fermented very long. I'm taking all this on faith, and have been eating 6 oz per day for a little while now with no negative results. Half and half is not only less carbs, it ups my fat. I'm looking forward to making some cheese, and using the whey to ferment some vegetables in my new fermenting crock.

Oh my homemade yogurt! Talk about creamy heaven! :roll: Every morning, I feel like I've died and gone there! This is the best yogurt I have ever tasted, bar none, Brown Cow and Stoneyfield cream top included! If I were into going commercial, I think I'd be giving these folks a run for their money!

I love yogurt. The reason I want to eat it every day (together with raw, cultured vegetables-not at the same time, mind you ;) ) is because I have candida overgrowth and I'm using these as my probiotics. That's a whole 'nuther story, though!

Lynn: Thanks for the great article. Much food for thought!

Hellistile: How's this for a good comeback? When someone is pushing the sweets at work, just say: "No thanks. That would spoil my appetite for the lard I'm gonna eat later." I think that would make most people's eyes cross! HeHe!

Have a great fat-filled, hunger-free day, everyone!

[Jen B]

Note: It is important to make ghee from cultured, unsalted, organic butter....

I hope you can favor organic butter and ghee. Because toxic chemical residues concentrate more highly in fats and oils (than in carbohydrates or protein) it's prudent to use only organic fats and oils. Currently, the one nationally available organic, cultured, unsalted butter is produced by Organic Valley. http://www.rwood.com/Articles/Ghee.htm

Well, looks like I need to rethink my statement in my post above about using any old butter to make ghee. Organic Valley butter is about $6/lb in my HFS. But it may be the way to go.

Ghee is purported to have some interesting health benefits:

[Ghee] contains butyric acid, a fatty acid with antiviral and anti-cancer properties.

Ghee aids digestion and nutrient assimilation....

In Ayurvedic literature ghee is acclaimed for supporting self-awareness and intelligence and promoting a clear complexion and voice. Additionally, people allergic to milk protein can generally consume ghee.

Quality fats, energetically speaking, lend a sense of ease, security and of being grounded. So people who tend to be speedy and ungrounded especially appreciate the medicinal properties of soothing ghee. http://www.rwood.com/Articles/Ghee.htm

A simple looking recipe for making ghee is found here: http://www.sanatansociety.org/indian_vegetarian_recipes/vegetarian_recipes_ghee.htm I won't be following the part about consuming the solids, as I assume they would contain concentrated lactose and casein, the hard to digest stuff that I really must avoid.

[Jen B]

Oh wow! I just found this little gem! It is a must read. :read2: A little humor, and a lot of excellent info!

http://www.westonaprice.org/transition/fatfear.html

[MissSherry]

This has been a wonderful thread. I am a fellow meat, egg and fat eater. Dairy very limited. I have never felt better. 60%+ of my diet is fat. I have not posted here just cause I am doing what feels good and is right for my body and really am just learning about the science behind it all.

[lynnp]

Great stuff Jen. How are you making your yogurt? I bought a shuttle chef so I can make it in quantity very easily. There was a thread on another forum all about yogurt and they talked about making it in a thermos. Once heated and cooled to the right temp, you add the cultures and let it sit in the thermos on the counter overnight and it ferments well and faster at the right temp longer. The cultures can fully ferment easier because the environment is right with the temp maintained...just an idea you may want to try.

[Jen B]

I've got a Eurocuisine yogurt maker. Instead of one container to ferment in, it has 7 little 6-oz glass jars with lids. I've got an extra set of jars so I can make 2 batches back to back and be good to go for 2 weeks (or 1 week if I let my hubby have some)! :)

I hadn't read about that thermos idea. I have read that you can use a heating pad. There sure are some interesting, innovative ways to make yogurt.

[taming]

I don't have a fear of fat, but I did have to decide, as I got close to goal, if fattier foods still should occupy as much "space" in my daily diet as they did when I began this journey. At 235 pounds, I could eat a whole lot more calories and still lose weight than I can eat and maintain my weight at 112.

My choice was to eat fewer calories from fat, and more from other foods, so these days, I am using reduced fat mayo in my tuna and not drowning anything in butter. It wasn't a sudden thing, btw, I slowly made incremental changes in my diet, and started to find that the fat that felt so essential to me as I began was less important to me over time. As that has happened, I also found that food I used to eat with a lot of fat, started to taste better to me without it--veggies in particular.

I'm not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, or decrease anyone's enthusiasm for yummy fatty stuff, but I am pretty sure that I am not the only person who ever found that over time, this has changed. I am, by no means, eating a low fat diet. But at 45% (give or take 5) it is a whole lot lower than it was when I started out.

[yogamom]

No, this makes a lot of sense to me. I am 15 lbs from goal, and rethinking what foods I want to be my staple. I still enjoy fatty foods, but can see me (when I do have cereal again) use 2%, because I prefer it. I am working towards a balance, and if my body continues to agree with me, a 35/30/35 sounds good to me. I see alot of bacon (yum) and nuts and berries in my future. I saw this journey as a pendulum swing. My induction diet of 70/20/10 was the inversion of my old WOE 10/20/70. I will never again mistake a LF HC diet as healthy, but for the long term, I may go back to Miracle Whip ( I prefer it). BTW tried Boursin w/ Crackerbread SO YUMMY! I love how great eating fat feels, and that wont change, but my ratios will, too. Congrats on making goal. That is wonderful! Your results (and others like you) make me feel so confident that this is really the safest and best way to go about WL. I have a friend who's gone from a 24 to a 16 in 1 1/2 years with just portion control and exercise. I told her yesterday (she'd been saying 12 or 10 was as small as she'd get) (she's 5'1") that a 4 or 6 is not out of her reach--I've seen so many do this on this forum. I wanted her to know that THAT kind of WL isn't an oddity. It's amazing, and fantastic, but she CAN do it.

[Jen B]

Taming and Dana:

I am a major proponent of listening to one's body and following instinctual or intuitional cues above all else. The fallacy comes when one looks outside oneself to the so-called 'experts' or to the group mentality for their information, and actually discredits or over-rides the all-important internal guidance system that is the true authority.

The ideal scenario, I think, is to feel and listen with the heart, moreso than the head, in our journeys through life. Sometimes there's too much analyzing, and not enough feeling. Our bodies are way more intelligent than we give them credit for, but it takes a willingness to get out of 'logic' mode long enough to feel and hear the internal whispers.

It sounds like you are in touch with your body and its cues, and this will not betray you.

We are all so very unique and different and no one plan could possibly work for all. Diversity is such a wonderful thing ...

[yogamom]

"Diversity is such a wonderful thing ..."

I agree...thanks for the affirmation.

[LiveWell]

I have never really been subjected to the "fat is bad" mantra. The first and only diet that has ever appealed to me was low carb. I tried it first in 98 - it was a perfect fit. Too bad I didnt stick with it and relize its not a diet but a WOL.

[Jen B]

I am continually amazed at how eating fat so efficiently quells hunger, and the satiety I feel from eating fat lasts for hours. Yesterday, I had 6 oz. half-and-half yogurt, 2 eggs fried in ghee, and about 4 oz. roasted chicken with mayo for breakfast. (No, I'm not a lumberjack - I'm just way hungrier in the morning than the rest of the day). That lasted me for 8 hours.

Around 5pm, I was only barely hungry and ate my coconut oil/flaxseed/cinnamon "cookie," just because I wanted to get these things in me for the day. Again, instant, complete, and long-lasting satiety.

Sometimes, I completely skip dinner because I'm just not hungry. As time goes on and I listen to my body more and more, my food intake goes down because I'm keeping the fat high, my blood sugar is a calm, peaceful hum, and my hunger is miniscule.

[JandLsMom]

Jen..
thanks sooo much for that tip on the ghee! my son is casein intolerant!! he cant eat butter and so i was told for recipes with butter...the only thing i could use for him was fleishmanns unsalted margarine because it is the only butter or marg out there that is casein free! i really DESPISE the idea of giving him margarine!! So i am THRILLED to find out about Ghee being casein free!! i dont care how much it costs..its worth it!! THanks sooo much for this most awesome discovery!! it is freeing!
karen

[JandLsMom]

also Jen..are you sure the half n half yogurt is casein free? is there a way to find out? could you tell me exactly how to make it?? thanks!

[lynnp]

Karen, I don't think the yogurt would be casein free, but the cultures eat the lactose making it low carb. Since the milk solids are still present in yogurt, the casein is still there (i believe). Jen has researched this and knows more than I do so I'll let her tell you for sure.

Good luck!

[Jen B]

Karen,

I don't think there's any way to know for sure if any milk-based yogurt could be casein-free. I can't even remember where I read that now, but it was just one person's opinion and a little scientific input, but not undeniably convincing. Unfortunately, the consensus seems to be that casein is still present no matter how long the yogurt is cultured.

Can your son tolerate goat milk? I know it's supposed to be easier for some people to tolerate than cow milk. Don't know the particulars.

For me, I didn't know if I had a problem with casein or not, but now that I've been eating my homemade half-and-half yogurt for a while, I don't think that I do because I'm not having any issues. It must be the lactose that I am intolerant of.

I have made yogurt using almond milk and some gelatin to firm it up. It's not as good as half-and-half, of course, but it's an acceptable alternative. There's a thread in the "Kitchen Talk" forum called "non-dairy yogurt," which was started by Nancy LC. It talks a little about almond milk yogurt, but Nancy is the expert on coconut milk yogurt. You might be able to find direction there.

With non-dairy yogurt, you have the challenge of obtaining a non-milk starter. I found two companies that produce it online: GI ProHealth and Custom Probiotics. Both are expensive. But you use miniscule amounts, so they would last a long time. The shipping is expensive too, as it has to come in a cold pack to keep the cultures alive.

I'm with you on the margarine. That stuff is nothing but nasty transfat. The ghee I bought is "Purity Farms" in a 13-oz jar. It says 100% certified organic butter, lactose free, casein free, no GMOs, salt free, kosher. And it is so absolutely delicious! After this jar is gone, I think I'll try my hand at making my own using Organic Valley butter.

[Jen B]

I just saw this link in another thread and had to post it here: "WHY LOW-CARB DIETS MUST BE HIGH-FAT, NOT HIGH-PROTEIN" http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html

Here's the thread the link came from, which is also very interesting: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=269247

[taming]

The fermentation reduces carbs debate has occurred here many times in the past. I believe this is the best thread about it (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=138905). This one (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=272130&goto=nextnewest) is also worth reading.

[Jen B]

Thanks, Taming! Even considering the full carb count, my daily intake of 6 oz of h&h yogurt amounts to 8 carbs. Before I started the yogurt, I was on a stall, and still am, so am just waiting this out to see if I start going down again!

I have gotten the gist of the threads posted, but I'm still optimistic. Here's a quote from a Diabetes Update review of the "Four Corners Diet" written by Drs. Goldberg & O'Mara:

“You can subtract 1 gram of carbohydrate for each ounce of these probiotic foods you eat,” the book states. “Thus, for a standard 8-ounce container of plain yogurt [and also kefir], which usually says it has about 12 grams of carbohydrates, you need to count only 4. This is not just speculation. Dr. Goldberg has actually measured the carbohydrate content of yogurt in his own laboratory.” http://www.mendosa.com/diabetes_update_71.htm I have no reason to believe that Goldberg's contention that he tested this in his own lab and confirmed the lower carbs is not true.

It seems to be a matter of choosing which side of the debate you want to believe...

[taming]

I've been eating yogurt for awhile now, and although I never incorporated as much as you currently enjoy into my active weight loss eating, my sense is that it is contributing to my GI health, and is serving me well now. I had not eaten yogurt for a long time. The "new improved" fruit and fat free stuff just didn't taste as good to me as I remembered yogurt being when I was younger. The plain yogurt I eat now, which is organic with 3.5% mf, tastes wonderful to me.

For any Canadians reading this, it is President's Choice brand.

[coolwater]

Folks on this thread may be interested in reading the book Eat Fat & Grow Slim by Richard Mackarness, M.B.,B.S. (1958). It's posted in its entirety at: http://www.ourcivilisation.com/fat/index.htm

[lynnp]

Thanks Coolwater. I just ordered and received a used copy I bought. I didn't know it was online. I am looking forward to reading it.

[Jen B]

The last two days I have increased my fat intake. (Sunday, I had 117 grams of fat to 68 grams of protein. Monday, I had 125 grams of fat to 61 grams of protein.) My carbs were under 20 grams both days (or less if I do the net carb thing).

Not only was it filling and satisfying, I'm feeling more energy, my mood is more balanced, I slept sounder, and slept less. AND, I dropped a pound overnight! I've been on a stall forever, so this is very exciting!! I feel like I've stoked the metabolism fires to a new level.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this takes me. I just made some jerky. I think I'm going to thaw out some bison fat and make pemmican out of it! Never made this before, so I hope it turns out ok!

I'm starting to feel like an Inuit or something! (I'm part Native American, so maybe my indigenous nature is starting to emerge! :) )

[lynnp]

Jennifer, what recipe did you use for your Jerky and what are you eating to get the fat in? I'm going to check you journal for menus, but any guidance would be appreciated. Any other recipes for the VCO?

[lynnp]

Jennifer, you have mentioned cinnamon a few times so I wanted to share an article I saved a long time ago. Hope you enjoy and people find it useful.

Cinnamon Helps Type 2 Diabetes: Also Helps Cholesterol -- But More Than A Sprinkle Required

By Jeanie Lerche Davis WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Brunilda Nazario, MD on Friday, December 05, 2003

Dec. 5, 2003 -- A spicy tip: Cinnamon can improve glucose and cholesterol levels in the blood. For people with type 2 diabetes, and those fighting high cholesterol, it's important information.

Researchers have long speculated that foods, especially spices, could help treat diabetes. In lab studies, cinnamon, cloves, bay leaves, and turmeric have all shown promise in enhancing insulin's action, writes researcher Alam Khan, PhD, with the NWFP Agricultural University in Peshawar, Pakistan. His study appears in the December issue of Diabetes Care.

Botanicals such as cinnamon can improve glucose metabolism and the overall condition of individuals with diabetes -- improving cholesterol metabolism, removing artery-damaging free radicals from the blood, and improving function of small blood vessels, he explains. Onions, garlic, Korean ginseng, and flaxseed have the same effect.

In fact, studies with rabbits and rats show that fenugreek, curry, mustard seeds, and coriander have cholesterol-improving effects.

But this is the first study to actually pin down the effects of cinnamon, writes Kahn. Studies have shown that cinnamon extracts can increase glucose metabolism, triggering insulin release -- which also affects cholesterol metabolism. Researchers speculated that cinnamon might improve both cholesterol and glucose. And it did!

The 60 men and women in Khan's study had a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes for an average of 6 1-2 years but were not yet taking insulin. The participants in his study had been on antidiabetic drugs that cause an increase in the release of insulin. Each took either wheat-flour placebo capsules or 500 milligram cinnamon capsules.

• Group 1 took 1 gram (two capsules equaling about one-quarter of a teaspoon) for 20 days.
• Group 2 took 3 grams (six capsules, equaling a little less than one teaspoon) for 20 days.
• Group 3 took 6 grams (12 capsules, equaling about one and three-quarters teaspoons) for 20 days.

Blood samples were taken at each level of the study. Cinnamon made a difference! Twenty days after the cinnamon was stopped, there were significant reductions in blood glucose levels in all three groups that took cinnamon, ranging from 18 to 29%.

But these was one peculiar finding that researchers don't understand at this point. Only the group that consumed the lowest level of cinnamon continued with significantly improved glucose levels -- group 1. The placebo groups didn't get any significant differences.

Taking more cinnamon seems to improve the blood levels of fats called triglycerides. All the patients had better triglyceride levels in their 40-day tests -- between 23% to 30% reductions. Those taking the most cinnamon had the best levels. In groups taking cinnamon pills, blood cholesterol levels also went down, ranging from 13% to 26%; LDL cholesterol also known as "bad" cholesterol went down by 10% to 24% in only the 3- and 6-gram groups after 40 days. Effects on HDL ("good cholesterol") were minor.

Cinnamon should be part of our daily diet -- whether we have type 2 diabetes or not, writes Kahn. However, for the best effects, just a sprinkle isn't enough. ________________________________________
SOURCE: Kahn, A. Diabetes Care. December 2003; vol 26: pp 3215-3218.

[Jen B]

I upped my eggs to 3/day and fry or poach them in ghee, eating all the drippings, and usually eat 2 strips of bacon/day. I upped my CO to 3 T/day. Don't have any new recipes, though. :( I just melt it, add 2 T. flaxseeds, 1-2 T. almond butter, 1 t. cinnamon, and a shake of stevia. I freeze this into a cookie. This usually suffices for my lunch, which I eat late due to the eggs/bacon/yogurt in the morning.

On my yogurt, it's made from 1/2 & 1/2, so it's already pretty fatty. Last night I put some yogurt in a coffee filter to drain, so I have kind of a cream cheese to eat at some point this morning. I eat my homemade mayo liberally with chicken, fish, roast beef slices. I eat skin from chicken, fat from meat, etc. That's about it. Once I try my hand at pemmican, I'll have something more to choose from!

Jerky Marinade: I use Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar, some walnut oil, a little stevia, some celtic sea salt, cayenne pepper, garlic powder, onion powder, Mexican oregano, and whatever other herbs seem right. I don't measure anything. I like the ACV instead of soy sauce or Worst. sauce, as I don't want the sugar, soy, additives, or 'fake' fermentation (which is really just pasteurization).

I could use more ideas, too, for adding good fat if anyone has them.

[lynnp]

Here is another cinnamon article I had saved..

Glucose-Lowering Cinnamon Tea
Excerpted from Diabetes: Prevention and Cure, by C. Leigh Broadhurst, PhD, Kensington Books, New York, 1999, pp. 192-193

“In the laboratory where I work at the US Department of Agriculture, we have investigated over 60 plant extracts in a special cell culture test that determines how much a particular compound stimulates the uptake and utilization of glucose. While these tests are no substitute for human or animal studies, they are important because they identify safe compounds that act directly on cell metabolism. Plenty of plants and individual phytochemicals can lower blood sugar, but many accomplish this by imposing toxic effects on the body. Cinnamon was by far the most active compound in our assay, so we focused on it.

From an extract of commercial cinnamon, we identified new phytochemicals called chalcone polymers that increase glucose metabolism in the cells twentyfold or more. In addition, cinnamon contains anthocyanins of the type thought to improve capillary function, and an extract similar to ours has been shown to inhibit the formation of ulcers and increase blood flow to the stomach in rats. As chalcone polymers strongly inhibit the formation of reactive oxygen species in activated blood platelets, we also know them as antioxidants.

A number of antioxidant phytochemicals have already been identified in cinnamon, so that cinnamon may have all three of the beneficial actions mentioned previously. Since the first published results that identify cinnamon as a potential therapy for diabetes, we have heard from hundreds of people who found that it works. Since cinnamon is very safe, there is little harm in trying it yourself.

To use cinnamon to help lower blood sugar and broadly improve Types I and II diabetes, put 3 rounded tablespoons of ground cinnamon and 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of baking soda (use a lesser amount if sodium is a problem for you) in a 32-ounce (quart) canning jar. Fill the jar with boiling water and let steep at room temperature until cool. Strain or decant the liquid and discard the grounds, and then put a lid on the jar and refrigerate.

Drink 1 cup (8 ounces) of the tea 4 times per day. After 1-3 weeks, drop to 1-2 cups per day or use as needed. For those with Type I diabetes, start with only 1-2 cups per day and increase by 1 cup per week, monitoring blood sugar closely. Buying cinnamon in bulk is cost-effective and highly recommended....”
.... I WOULD HAVE TO GUESS AT THE REASON FOR THE BAKING SODA IN THE RECIPE; SINCE BOTH POWDERS ARE ALKALINE, I DOUBT THE SODA IS ADDED TO PROTECT THE LIPS FROM IRRITATION. FOR THAT, I'D SUGGEST SIPPING THE TEA THROUGH A STRAW. BUT GIVEN THE AUTHOR'S CREDENTIALS, I AM NOT INCLINED TO QUESTION THAT SHE HAS A SOUND PURPOSE FOR THIS. MY GUESS WOULD BE THAT THE BAKING SODA EXTRACTS THE ACTIVE INGREDIENTS INTO THE WATER MORE EFFECTIVELY AND TAKES OUT SOME OF THE MORE QUESTIONABLE COMPONENTS.

This beverage is easily portable. If pre-chilled, it will stay fresh and palatable enough for a few hours (as long as you are not in a high temperature environment). Or of course you can carry it in some kind of cold pack and keep it fresh all day. To put the tea into a carry-along plastic water bottle, be sure to allow it to cool down at least until lukewarm before you pour.

Regarding cleanup: Cinnamon can be difficult to launder out of fabrics, so avoid dripping this tea onto anything of value. The only other thing of note is that the sludge actually does not clog the drain. The strainer and the jar or teapot can be rinsed out and hand-washed normally. I wouldn't put a cinnamon sludge-filled item in a dishwasher, though... rinse it first.

AT FIRST I WAS CONCERNED THAT THE TEA MIGHT STAIN TEETH, SINCE ITS COLOR IS SO DARK. THIS HAS NOT MATERIALIZED.

[lynnp]

Thanks Jennifer for the recipes :D

[JandLsMom]

jen,
i have never given my son goat milk. i am not sure if there is casein in it. He does drink soy milk, almond milk and rice milk though. Maybe i could try making the almond milk yogurt for him, or maybe i will just keep giving him his probiotics and forget the yogurt..lol
karen

[Jen B]

Karen,

Would your son eat raw cultured vegetables? They are also excellent as probiotics. According to the Body Ecology Diet and also Nourishing Traditions, raw cultured veggies are a super nutrient, and they re-culture the intestinal flora in a most healthy way.

There's a brand at the health food store called "Rejuvenative Foods." I love the Kim Chee. It's like sauerkraut. Just like the ghee, it is also very expensive. I usually eat half a cup per day or less. These are the only veggies I ever eat. These are excellent with any type of protein.

Most commercial sauerkrauts and pickled products are not raw and truly cultured; they are heated or pasteurized. Basically, they're dead and only serve to feed candida. You have to get the 'real deal' or make it yourself. The Rejuvenative Foods brand is the 'real deal.' There may be others.

On probiotics, there's a thread on the General Health forum started by Nancy LC, where she is testing refrigerated probiotics from the health food store and finding them to be dead. It's titled something like "Probiotics are a rip-off." Very interesting!!

[JandLsMom]

Jen,
unfortunately my son has some sensory issues and wont eat many foods. he hates anything soft or squishy..i actually have a nutritionist coming to my house tomorrow to evaluate him and she will probably start coming every few weeks to work with him on his sensory issues to try to get him to try more foods. So, no the cultured veggies isnt something he would eat, he wont eat any veggies at all.
karen

[lynnp]

I am attaching a link for a great article here. It is a medical research article on kidney health and protein intake. I thought some may still be afraid of m/e because of the myth about kidney damage. It is a pdf so you need Adobe Acrobat to read it. I hope you find it helpful. Have a great day. I'll CBL.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.c...3-7075-2-25.pdf

[lynnp]

Here is an article right on topic. I hope it isn't a repeat:

More Saturated Fat = Less Coronary Artery Disease!
Anthony Colpo, November 9, 2004.

The latest issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition has just published a study that gives saturated fat-defending heretics like yours truly something to smile about.

Researchers took 235 postmenopausal women with established coronary heart disease and performed coronary angiographies at the start of the study and after a mean follow-up of 3.1 years. A total of 2243 coronary segments were analyzed. The women were also divided into four categories according to their level of saturated fat intake. Saturated fats found to be protective After adjusting for multiple confounders, a higher saturated fat intake was associated with less narrowing of the arteries and less progression of coronary atherosclerosis during follow-up. Compared with a 0.22-mm narrowing in the lowest quartile of intake, there was a 0.10-mm narrowing in the second quartile, a 0.07-mm narrowing in the third quartile, and no narrowing in the fourth and highest quartile of saturated fat intake.

Carbohydrates found to be harmful

The protective association of saturated fat was more pronounced among women with lower monounsaturated fat and higher carbohydrate intakes. Carbohydrate intake was positively associated with atherosclerotic progression, particularly when the glycemic index was high. Polyunsaturates found to be harmful Polyunsaturated fat intake was positively associated with progression of atherosclerosis when replacing other fats, but monounsaturated and total fat intakes were not associated with progression.

The bottom line

The authors concluded: "In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression". "Our findings are not consistent with the hypothesis…that saturated fat intake increases atherosclerotic progression in postmenopausal women but instead suggest that saturated fat intake may reduce such progression, especially when monounsaturated fat intake is low or carbohydrate intake is high. Our findings also suggest that carbohydrate intake may increase atherosclerotic progression, especially when refined carbohydrates replace saturated or monounsaturated fats".

Mere association or direct causation?

After examining the baseline data for the study subjects, it becomes apparent that the results can not be explained away by otherwise healthier lifestyles among those eating the most saturated fat; the high saturated fat group, in fact, had the greatest number of current smokers. Studies like this do not prove causation, but we do know that saturated fatty acids, because of their lack of vulnerable double bonds, are the least susceptible to free radical damage; polyunsaturates are the most vulnerable. We also know that increased carbohydrate consumption, especially of the refined variety, does a sterling job of raising blood sugar and insulin levels, which accelerates glycation, free radical activity, blood clot formation, and arterial smooth muscle cell proliferation. Furthermore, the contention that increased polyunsaturated fat and carbohydrate consumption can worsen cardiovascular disease is supported by evidence from clinical trials and by the observation that increasing heart disease incidence throughout the twentieth century has been accompanied by increasing polyunsaturate and refined carbohydrate consumption. Animal fat consumption, in contrast, has remained stable over the last 100 years. Anti-saturate stupidity

You know, I could take this opportunity to really dump on those who have been incessantly slandering saturated fat all these years, but I won't, because some of my more sensitive readers might write me and accuse me of unfairly impugning the personal and professional integrity of these upstanding citizens. I could point out how many of these anti-saturated fat commentators have built their status and careers on a completely erroneous bunch of nonsense, but again, I won't, because, hey, that wouldn't be nice. I could also point out how their unbridled vitriol against these naturally-occurring fats has probably cost hundreds of thousands, even millions, of lives, but, gee, that wouldn't be a politically correct thing to do. Nope, I won't mention any of these things (or did I do just that...oops!)…all I will say is that next time you hear some misguided fanatic wailing on about the evils of saturated fat, run--straight to the nearest tub of butter! Source: The Omnivore

[taming]

I think there is something in this that may not make many LCers feel so great about it though. Note the reference to low total fat:
The authors concluded: "In postmenopausal women with relatively low total fat intake, a greater saturated fat intake is associated with less progression of coronary atherosclerosis, whereas carbohydrate intake is associated with a greater progression".
From what I can see, they did not look at people eating fats the way so many of us do.

[lynnp]

Taming, why would that be bad? Coronary atherosclerosis means plaque building in the arteries. That quote is saying that increased saturated fat intake DECREASES plaque build-up and carbohydrate intake INCREASES plaque build-up and that is a BAD thing that leads to heart attacks, stroke, etc... I think that quote shows the positive side of low carbers eating saturated fat and why fat should be included in a LC program.

[taming]

What I am saying is that the study apparently looked at people with a lowish overall fat intake, not the 60-70% that many LCers eat. There is no reason to think the same results would be there following a high fat diet. I'm not saying it is impossible, or even unlikely, just that it was not studied. To jump with joy over a study that did not look at the way we eat doesn't make sense to me.

It may just be human nature, but we tend to embrace things that have even tenuous links to the way we think, and to ignore the things that are not a great fit. Then we look for subtleties in other things, that might challenge our beliefs (and hopes) to find reasons to ignore them.

Someday, there may be definitive answers to this issue, but this study isn't it.

[lynnp]

Not to burst any bubbles here, but I am hardly jumping for joy over this study. This is a thread about peoples fear off fat and many LCarbers eat low fat as part of their programs (most that I post with daily). The point of posting the article was for information. I read all I can and assume that others want a variety of information sources. What they do with the information is an individual thing.

[shopgirl28]

Wow, there is some great info in this thread. I wish I had learned all this a few months ago when i started on my journey.

I find myself facing much controversy about eating fat, especially at work. Most of the people say "you don't need to lose more weight" but then comment "All that fat is going make you gain weight". I like the "sorry I'm busy injecting bacon fat" comment I read earlier. I'm going to definitely use that tonight at work when I'm eating my hamburger and eggs!

[Jen B]

From the article Lynn posted: "You know, I could take this opportunity to really dump on those who have been incessantly slandering saturated fat all these years, but I won't, because some of my more sensitive readers might write me and accuse me of unfairly impugning the personal and professional integrity of these upstanding citizens. I could point out how many of these anti-saturated fat commentators have built their status and careers on a completely erroneous bunch of nonsense, but again, I won't, because, hey, that wouldn't be nice. I could also point out how their unbridled vitriol against these naturally-occurring fats has probably cost hundreds of thousands, even millions, of lives, but, gee, that wouldn't be a politically correct thing to do. Nope, I won't mention any of these things (or did I do just that...oops!)…all I will say is that next time you hear some misguided fanatic wailing on about the evils of saturated fat, run--straight to the nearest tub of butter!" Widespread propaganda is like religious dogma. The masses seem to glom onto it in such a fervent way that any attempt by those who have "seen the light" to spread the truth and break down the rhetoric seems like a sacreligious act of mutiny deserving of punishment of death!

There's this young guy where I work that brings boiled eggs to eat for breakfast, but he throws the yolks away and eats only the whites. Every day, I see these lonely, precious, golden yolks in the trash in the kitchen area and I cringe at the utter insanity of it. Then, as I'm warming my three poached, whole eggs in the micro with substantial ghee melting on top and bacon alongside, he glances my way with a disgusted look that says: "you poor stupid, misguided soul." (This guy also brings hamburger helper for lunch made with tofu instead of beef! :daze: ) I think he's nuts and he thinks I'm nuts. There's a mental standoff. The gap is so huge, there's nothing to say to one another here.

This scenario is a microcosm of my life these days. So "outside the box," so alien, so "in the fringes." No need to explain, no purpose in trying to. The status quo is so formidable and cement-like. I take comfort in the way I feel and all the numbers: on the scale, on the blood pressure monitor, on the lab work. Waking up to the truth is such a lonely proposition!

Until, of course, I come to this forum and I can find all sorts of company and comraderie! Thanks, y'all, for being here!

The eggs with melted ghee blended in is incredibly delicious! Does anyone else have personal favorite ways of adding fat that prove especially delicious?? I sure could use some more ideas!

[shopgirl28]

I am attaching a link for a great article here. It is a medical research article on kidney health and protein intake. I thought some may still be afraid of m/e because of the myth about kidney damage. It is a pdf so you need Adobe Acrobat to read it. I hope you find it helpful. Have a great day. I'll CBL.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.c...3-7075-2-25.pdf

I'm really very interested in this link but it is not working.

My mother is type II diabetic and swears she can't do low carb because of kidney damage. Can you repost the link? Thanks lynn

[Jen B]

Bostongal: This may be the article that Lynn posted a link to above: http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25

[lynnp]

Thanks Jen, I believe that is the article :D BTW, Nice avitar!

[Jen B]

Arachidonic Acid (AA) - that's my word of the day. I'm beginning to suspect that I have a sensitivity to it. AA is an omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid found in animal foods, especially egg yolks and red meat/fat. Too much of it in sensitive people can cause inflammation and can contribute to high blood pressure, among other things. I don't understand the scientific specifics, but I think that basically, the body produces prostaglandins (and other substances) as a result of AA metabolism, and these substances are inflammatory and contribute to constriction.

I'm beginning to wonder if working to improve the Omega 3: Omega 6 fatty acid profile in the diet would substantially reduce the amount of AA. I'm going to do an experiment where I'm only going to eat fat, meat, and eggs from grass-fed, free-range sources, as well as partake of plenty of fish (salmon, tuna, macherel), fish oil, flax, hemp, walnut/olive oil, and anything else I can come up with to lower Omega 6 and boost Omega 3.

I have chronic, long-term muscle & joint pain, fatigue, and high blood pressure that have not much improved since I started faithful LCing over 7 months ago. I've discovered my candida overgrowth and am addressing that. Now I've recently got a hunch that too much AA in my diet may be the missing part of the puzzle that will help me realize a more noticeable improvement in these conditions.

Does anyone else have any experience or helpful input with any of this??

[lynnp]

I don't have any experience with that Jen, but I sure hope you figure it out and feel better!

[Jen B]

Well, I switched over to only grass-fed meat and free range eggs two days ago. I took my blood pressure yesterday and it was 125/75! I can live with that! It hasn't been that low since I did a 9-day water fast last summer. That is an amazing turn around from the 143/82 reading that I got after eating grain-fed roast beef and bacon on Friday.

It seems as though the decrease in arachidonic acid (AA) did the trick, after all these months of wondering why my blood pressure wouldn't go down! This seems to have lessened my pain level a little as well. It's amazing to me that such a simple change could be the magic button! But it looks like that's the case with me. I'm one of those persons the Eades (Protein Power) refer to as having nature throw them a curve ball with a sensitivity to AA! "Arachidonic Acid: Nature Throws Us a Curve"
http://www.opinions3.com/arachidonic_acid.htm

I'm finding out that this Omega essential fatty acid balance is a more complicated issue than I thought. There are more than one type of Omega-3 EFA. There's EPA & DHA, which comes from coldwater fish (salmon, tuna, mackerel), fish oils, and fresh seaweed. Then there's ALA, which comes from flax, hemp, green leafy vegetables, plant oils (olive and walnut oils are best). And then there's GLA, that comes from borage oil, black currant oil, and evening primrose oil. "GLA: The Missing Link" http://www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/missing_link.php

I'm currently using (1) Carlson's fish oil and eating fish for EPA & DHA, (2) flaxseeds, hemp protein powder, and olive and walnut oils for ALA, and (3) evening primrose oil for GLA. With my decrease of Omega-6 (and thus AA) by eating only grass-fed meat/eggs, I think I've finally got all the bases covered and my sensitivity addressed!! (I have followed the recommendations of Dr. Mercola on choosing Carlson's fish oil and evening primrose oil. I tend to value his opinion. www.mercola.com)

Enough talk of technicalities. Over the weekend, I made pemmican for the first time ever, out of grass-fed bison fat and grass-fed beef eye of round roast. I marinated the beef using my jerky recipe so it is nice and spicy, dried it really well, and pulverized it in the food processor. I rendered the fat for hours in the oven, and the cracklins were delicious and plentiful, so I froze them in 1-cup increments, hoping to come up with some way to use them up over time.

I mixed 2 parts meat to 1 part fat. I didn't use any dried berries or anything. The pemmican turned out fantastic! And I had fat left over, which I froze for another future batch. I've got my lunches ready-made now for a good week or two!

Also over the weekend, I tried a blender "eggnog." I have been wanting to incorporate raw eggs into my diet. Here's an article I thought was good about raw eggs: http://www.regenerativenutrition.com/content.asp?id=268. With 3 eggs, I blended a heaping spoon of coconut cream, a little cold water, some nutmeg, stevia, and some ice. It was delightfully tasty and frosty. And very filling. The satisfaction from all the fat lasted for a good three hours. I think I've got myself a new favorite breakfast. And the nutmeg has some nice health benefits as well.

Well, that's enough "fat talk" for one morning. Does anybody have any ideas how to use cracklins from fat rendering? (besides just eating them 'as is' :yum: )

[ojoj]

It took me about a year to get over the "fear of fat" thing. When I first started Atkins, I remember thinking, "ok if this doesn't work, I am going to gain 50 lbs in no time." I was not worried about calories, and eating about 70% fat. Well, the weight immediately started falling off, so I felt pretty good. I was still a little uneasy about the high fat, though. Then, after doing Atkins for about 14 months I had a complete physical. Theh Dr. said everything was great, and my cholesterol numbers were excellent. At that point I was convinced that this was the proper way to eat. I have been at it for over 3 years now and have never felt better.


I could have written this!

[ProfGumby]

...........I like the "sorry I'm busy injecting bacon fat" comment I read earlier..........

I still laugh when I read that.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Otherwise, great thread! Fat does not worry or scare me in the least. I don't think I have ever once worried about fat since starting Atkins. Honestly, I worry more about hormones, irradiation and pesticides than fat.

Also, I am moving more and more towards organic foods as the budget allows. I had not given much thought to the AA content of beef, though have to admit, it does not seem to trouble me.

However, as was pointed out here, once you eat organic, grass fed, hormone free beef you will want to go throw any beef from the supermarket in the bin!

[Bat Spit]

Does anybody have any ideas how to use cracklins from fat rendering?

In Little House in the Big Woods Laura Ingalls refers to her mother saving cracklings to use in baking.

I bet you could make some truely excellent 'cornbread' using almond flour and crackling!

[ProfGumby]

In Little House in the Big Woods Laura Ingalls refers to her mother saving cracklings to use in baking.

I bet you could make some truely excellent 'cornbread' using almond flour and crackling!

Crumble/Crunch them up into scrambled eggs and spinnach..a little white (Mozerella, Brick, Monterey Jack...) cheese on top and........ yum!

[arc]

However, as was pointed out here, once you eat organic, grass fed, hormone free beef you will want to go throw any beef from the supermarket in the bin!

I bought some local, grass-fed, hormone free rib-eye steaks a couple of weekends ago for our anniversary. They were unbelieveably good. Normally, in a rib-eye, I would end up cutting out most of the chunks of fat, because it was chewy and not that good. The fat in these was almost creamy and was wonderful. Seriously the best steak I have ever had.

[Hellistile]

I read somewhere today that Walmart's is going to open up organic food sections in their stores but darn if I can remember where I read it. Maybe organic produce and meat will be more affordable, although I don't know if this includes Canadian stores. Our walmarts are so huge they build them in areas that are hard to access by bus. So us poor folks who cannot afford cars can't shop there anyway. Ironic comes to mind.

edit: Mary Dan Eades website is where I read about it

[Jen B]

I think the article linked below is a pretty comprehensive explanation of the different fatty acids, their sources, and the importance of a certain balance in the diet. I didn't know there was so much complexity to this EFA thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid

The more I read, the more it becomes clear to me that the advent of grain in the "civilized" diet, and then the introduction of grain-fed livestock, poultry, and fish (farm-raised), has served to totally upset the EFA balance in many cultures around the world. The resulting widespread illness is the result.

I thought that removing grain from my diet and using supplementation took care of the EFA imbalance. Recently, I've found there's more to the equation, especially for someone like me who is sensitive to AA.

Eating only grass-fed meat has narrowed my food choices even more than they already were. Sometimes, I wish I didn't have to eat at all. It would make things so much simpler. :daze:

[mike_d]

Yep, I have had to up my fat content on induction due to exercise and the problem of waking in the night hungry. I have added more butter and pecans to my diet and its helping. I am still in ketosis.

[Jen B]

Steffanson, who studied the Eskimos and Indians of the far north, reports that when lean caribou was the only meat available, anxiety set in. These natives knew that a month or more on such meat, without the addition of marine animals or fatty fish, would make them sick and prone to disease. The ancient tribes of the American West would not eat female bison in the Spring because nursing and pregnant bison cows burned off their fat reserves during the winter months. In fact, most bison hunts occurred in the late Summer and Fall when the bison were naturally fattened on the ripe grain of prairie grasses.

Anthropologist Leon Abrams reports that the Aborigine will throw away a kangaroo he has killed if he discovers that its carcass does not contain sufficient fat. Members of Randolph Marcy's 1856 expedition to Wyoming grew weak and sick consuming a politically correct low-fat regime of six pounds of lean horse and mule meat per day; Dr. Wolfgang Lutz reports that a very efficient way of eliminating jailed political prisoners in South and Central America is to feed them a diet composed exclusively of lean meat. They soon develop severe diarrhea and succumb. The explanation is that fats contain nutrients like vitamin A that the body needs to utilize the amino acids and minerals in flesh foods; without fat in the diet, the body rapidly uses up its own stores of fat soluble vitamins. When these vital nutrients are depleted, the human organism can no longer fight off disease. http://www.mercola.com/article/Diet/caveman_cuisine.htm

I want to add that I believe a focus on grass-fed meat/fat is very important. The Omega EFA imbalance in grain-fed products is unhealthy. I recently discovered that arachidonic acid (an Omega 6 fatty acid) is high in grain-fed meat/fat, some people are sensitive to this acid, and it can cause inflammation and constriction in the body. I'm one of those sensitive people. My troublesome blood pressure (previously 140s/80s) was lowered immediately (108/63, as of today) by lowering arachidonic acid by a switch to solely grass-fed food sources.

[Meg_S]

Jen, out of curiosity can you give some examples of symptoms you experience? I'm interested in this. I THINK my butcher is grassfed/organic, but as they get their meats from different local farmers I can't be sure all the time. Even if I were not sensitive I would want to eat grassfed anyway.

[Jen B]

I have chronic musculoskeletal pain (inflammation) and chronic fatigue. And I had high blood pressure (constriction). Arachodonic acid can actually aggravate or cause any inflammation or constriction problem, like asthma, which is inflammation of the airways.

My pain and fatigue are less these days, and I'm hoping over time they'll disappear completely. The blood pressure corrected itself virtually overnight. I've got sciatica, and I think I'm going to try some acupuncture for that.

[Hellistile]

Arachodonic acid can actually aggravate or cause any inflammation or constriction problem, like asthma, which is inflammation of the airways.
I have been off grains, sugar, legumes, soy for quite some time and yet my asthma/inflammation is still bothering me (everything else seems to have cleared up) The meat/eggs program with high fat will only work if I buy only free range products as I am also sensitive to arachodonic acid. I am now in the process of eliminating dairy to see if that helps but then what is left to eat?

Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

[Jen B]

The list of foods I eat is very small indeed. I've just gotten used to not having much variety. My hunger is so low that I don't really care anymore about variety, recipes, etc. If I could, I'd just quit eating altogether. It seems the only time I felt pretty good was when I was fasting.

I basically eat grass-fed meats and fats, wild fish, free-range Omega 3 eggs, ghee (the only dairy I eat - it has no casein or lactose), coconut & CO, cultured veggies (small serving every day), occasional nuts (almond, pecan), flaxseeds, walnut oil mayonnaise.

[MissSherry]

The list of foods I eat is very small indeed. I've just gotten used to not having much variety. My hunger is so low that I don't really care anymore about variety, recipes, etc. If I could, I'd just quit eating altogether. It seems the only time I felt pretty good was when I was fasting.

I basically eat grass-fed meats and fats, wild fish, free-range Omega 3 eggs, ghee (the only dairy I eat - it has no casein or lactose), coconut & CO, cultured veggies (small serving every day), occasional nuts (almond, pecan), flaxseeds, walnut oil mayonnaise.

Jen I am with ya. My meals are pretty simple and it works for me...

[Jen B]

There is something about eating high fat (75%), moderate protein (20%), and very low carbs (5%) that, for me, creates a whole new perspective about food, unlike I've ever felt before. It's as if food gets relegated to a little corner of my awareness that is reserved only for "physical sustenance." Food no longer feels like it's tied in with emotion, celebration, cravings, etc. I'm not pulled toward indulgence by the clock, by the calendar, or by emotional discomforts and longings. I simply eat when I am hungry until I am satisfied; then it's out of my mind for most of the day.

For me, there's definitely a feeling of eating to live rather than living to eat. My priorities are all shifted around now. I used to be enamored with gourmet food and the subtle, savory nuances of gastronomical delights. Now, I simply don't care. It's not that I don't like sumptuous food. These days, a fatty ribeye grilled rare with a touch of salt is a culinary masterpiece.

The freedom I'm enjoying with this shift in priorities is exquisite, and I have no intention of reintroducing foods that I know would be distracting for me. To paraphrase a friend of mine: "My health and my peace of mind is much more important to me than the party in my mouth."

[coolwater]

Well said Jen. :)

[Butterly]

I do remember that, when I did a low fat diet years ago after my children were born, my hair fell out, what was left was thin and my nails were in terrible condition. My skin was horribly dry and lackluster.
Ditto me. I, who used to have such shiny, thick lustrous hair, and a skin that glowed without any facial or night cream, suddenly landed with dry lustreless hair and skin on the D Ornish diet. The shine in my hair and skin came right back -- I think in a matter of weeks -- when I began Atkins --

[Butterly]

So true, Jen -- I couldn't have put it better --

[deirdra]

Jen, I feel the same way on my 65% fat, 25% protein & 10% carbs WOE: finally at peace after 35 years of yo-yoing and feeling miserable. Now I feel and live like a "normal" person.

[waywardsis]

I have to second (or third) that...I feel better than I have ever felt on 65-70% fat and between 20-60g carbs. Not only are my starch cravings gone (and chip cravings, which I think were really my body screaming for fat!) but my skin has cleared up and looks fantastic. And I may be crazy, but my hair colour has suddenly gotten a boost - all the red is coming out, and it's not from the sun.

Jen, I love your coconut oil 'cookie' idea! I take 1-2T a day just off the spoon or in some coconut milk, but the cookie would be more fun. And a perfect lunch, since I am so rarely hungry then.

[Butterly]

I am attaching a link for a great article here. It is a medical research article on kidney health and protein intake. I thought some may still be afraid of m/e because of the myth about kidney damage. It is a pdf so you need Adobe Acrobat to read it. I hope you find it helpful. Have a great day. I'll CBL.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.c...3-7075-2-25.pdf

lynnp, the weblink doesn't seem to be working -- I was interested in reading it -- could you give it again, please :)

[Butterly]

Jen..
thanks sooo much for that tip on the ghee! my son is casein intolerant!! he cant eat butter and so i was told for recipes with butter...the only thing i could use for him was fleishmanns unsalted margarine because it is the only butter or marg out there that is casein free! i really DESPISE the idea of giving him margarine!! So i am THRILLED to find out about Ghee being casein free!! i dont care how much it costs..its worth it!! THanks sooo much for this most awesome discovery!! it is freeing!
karen
We in India make home-made ghee. It's quite easy to make. Here's how :-
Boil whole fat milk.
Refrigerate overnight.
Skim off the thick cream, and place in a collection bowl, and refrigerate.
Repeat this cream collection for several days, until you have a bowl full of cream.
Now, churn this (or whip it) cream until it turns into butter. Takes about 10-15 minutes by hand.
Now melt this butter over a stove (moderate heat), constantly stirring it with a spoon or spatula.
The butter will begin melting into transparent liquid -- which is ghee.
A white residue will begin forming. I like to keep stirring it on heat until the residue turns a rosy brown (the ghee gives off a heavenly aroma), add a smidegen of salt -- just a few grains -- makes the ghee grainy.
Now, remove from heat, and strain the ghee out and bottle it.
The brown residue is delicious too.

[Fauve]

Reading thru this amazing thread to get more inspiration. Thank you.

[ProfGumby]

We in India make home-made ghee. It's quite easy to make. Here's how :-
Boil whole fat milk.
Refrigerate overnight.
Skim off the thick cream, and place in a collection bowl, and refrigerate.
Repeat this cream collection for several days, until you have a bowl full of cream.
Now, churn this (or whip it) cream until it turns into butter. Takes about 10-15 minutes by hand.
Now melt this butter over a stove (moderate heat), constantly stirring it with a spoon or spatula.
The butter will begin melting into transparent liquid -- which is ghee.
A white residue will begin forming. I like to keep stirring it on heat until the residue turns a rosy brown (the ghee gives off a heavenly aroma), add a smidegen of salt -- just a few grains -- makes the ghee grainy.
Now, remove from heat, and strain the ghee out and bottle it.
The brown residue is delicious too.
What does one do with Brown residue? (I did not mean to sound like Dr Suess... :) )

[eyesofblue]

We in India make home-made ghee. It's quite easy to make. Here's how :-
Boil whole fat milk.
Refrigerate overnight.
Skim off the thick cream, and place in a collection bowl, and refrigerate.
Repeat this cream collection for several days, until you have a bowl full of cream.



Do you keep re-boiling the same milk?
Thanks!

[Zer]

I believe http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/25/abstract is the article (abstract) that Lynn cites, for those who want to see text without pdf characteristics. I am attaching a link for a great article here. It is a medical research article on kidney health and protein intake. I thought some may still be afraid of m/e because of the myth about kidney damage.... http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.c...3-7075-2-25.pdf Looks interesting. Dietary protein intake and renal function
William F Martin, Lawrence E Armstrong and Nancy R Rodriguez
Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:25 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-2-25
Published 20 September 2005
Abstract: Recent trends in weight loss diets have led to a substantial increase in protein intake by individuals. As a result, the safety of habitually consuming dietary protein in excess of recommended intakes has been questioned. In particular, there is concern that high protein intake may promote renal damage by chronically increasing glomerular pressure and hyperfiltration. There is, however, a serious question as to whether there is significant evidence to support this relationship in healthy individuals. In fact, some studies suggest that hyperfiltration, the purported mechanism for renal damage, is a normal adaptative mechanism that occurs in response to several physiological conditions. This paper reviews the available evidence that increased dietary protein intake is a health concern in terms of the potential to initiate or promote renal disease. While protein restriction may be appropriate for treatment of existing kidney disease, we find no significant evidence for a detrimental effect of high protein intakes on kidney function in healthy persons after centuries of a high protein Western diet.

[Zer]

Finding lard in Georgia should not be that hard. Asking for it may get odd looks, because we are supposed to shun fats, lard, etc. I've seen lard sold by the pound, wrapped in waxy wrapper in a block, like butter, in the refrigerated section of a market.

In SoCal, lard is called manteca and is sold by the block/bucket.

[Jen B]

I'm glad to see some activity on this thread. You DO realize that besides the recent activity, the posts were from 2006, nearly a year ago.

LynnP is not around anymore. The article for the link she posted that didn't work was quoted in its entirety in a post by her a page or so further in the thread.

I've been eating high fat over the last year. But I was having too many carbs and my weight had creeped (crept?) up to 179 as of last Saturday.

I have decided that I want to go lower in my weight now, all the way down to 160, and I am on my 6th day of eating fat and protein almost exclusively.

I've lost 6 lbs in those 6 days! I have so much energy I can hardly sit still!

Fat absolutely rules!!

[Zer]

Oops, I did not notice the gap - from June'06 to April'07 as Fauve reviewed the posts and breathed life into the thread.

Topic is interesting. Write ON!

[Jen B]

I've been looking for fatty foods that don't have too much protein and that are, of course, low in carbs. I've come up with these so far:

avocados
macadamias
half & half yogurt
black olives

According to Fitday:

1/2 California avocado (black skin)
Cals. 139
Fat 13
Carbs 6
Protein 2

1 oz of unroasted macadamias
Cals. 204
Fat 21
Carbs 4
Protein 2

Half & Half Yogurt, 6 oz
Cals. 240
Fat 21
Carbs 6
Protein 5

(I make my own half & half yogurt in a Euro Cuisine yogurt maker. It has 7 little jars and they are 6 oz each. So thick, creamy, and delicious :yum:, less carbs and more fat.)

6 large black olives
Cals. 29
Fat 3
Carbs 2
Protein 0
The Avocado Advantage

Once banished for being high in fat, this fruit is making a healthy comeback.

WebMD FeatureAug. 14, 2000 -- For as long as he can remember, George Bliss, age 81, has been eating avocados morning, noon, and night. A second-generation California avocado farmer, Bliss loves the fruits of his labor. "I eat three avocados a day," he says with the fervor of a true addict. "I have one on my eggs in the morning, one in my salad at noon, and one with my dinner."

Partaking of his land's bounty doesn't seem to have done Bliss any harm. After eight decades of daily avocado consumption, he's still going strong; at 6 feet tall, he weighs a trim 180 pounds. He believes that he has avocados to thank for his good health. "I'm still living and I'm over 80," he says. "I do some exercise on a bicycle, and I walk through the orchards keeping up with my business. I don't need a cane or anything." And sure, Bliss says, his green globes might be a bit fatty, but that's no reason to fear them.

Whole article: http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/avocado-advantageAnybody else have some "fatty favorites" that come in low on the protein scale? If so, post them here with the stats, and we'll build a base to work with.

[Zer]

http://www.fitwise.com/Food_Counts.asp offers this info: Butter: 1 Tablespoon, regular, unsalted
100 calories, 0.1g protein, 0 carbohydrate, 11.4g fat All of us ButterSnackers are having a ball, snacking on butter!

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c208C.html offers: Coconut oil: 1 Tbs... 116 calories, 0g protein, 0g carb, 13.5g fat
Olive oil: 1 Tbs ....... 119 calories, 0g protein, 0g carb, 13.5g fat
Green olive: 1oz ..... 40.6 calories, 0.3g protein, 1.1g carb, 4.3g fat
Ripe olive: 1oz ....... 32.2 calories, 0.2g protein, 1.8g carb, 3.0g fat I figure 1oz = 2Tbs (roughly), when I am working out equivalent values.

[mike_d]

I was unaware yogurt could be made from half&half-- ill have to give it a try. Manteca or lard here and everywhere is hydrogenated (transfat) and I avoid it mostly and use coconut oil. I also eat pork belly (a thick natural bacon) which is quite delicious when correctly prepared. I brown it in coconut oil.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/05/11/Columns/Pork_bellies__This_fa.shtml

[Kandra]

Anybody else have some "fatty favorites" that come in low on the protein scale? If so, post them here with the stats, and we'll build a base to work with.
Hi Jen, Have you seen the tool in MY PLAN where you just plug in any ratio of fat/protien/carb and it finds all the food for you?

[Jen B]

Thanks, Kandra, I'll check out My Plan.

Here's a new favorite of mine using coconut oil. Melt a heaping spoon of VCO. Add a serving of chocolate, let it melt, and then some mint extract. Pour into a buttered container and chill. This is the best chocolate-mint patty I've ever tasted, and I've been eating one every day after dinner.

I use Endangered Species 88% chocolate bars. That's the darkest and most bittersweet I can find. There's 15 squares in the bar, and I use 3 squares per serving, which equals about 5 carbs. Then I have peppermint extract from the HFS. I would say I use about 12-15 drops per serving.

I don't like anything very sweet, and the small amount of sweetness in the chocolate bar is plenty for me.

[SaintAnger]

I've been dealing with alot of "degenerative" issues, and guess what. I'm only 22 years old.

The root problem for me, really my whole life, has been physiological. Never mental. I realized through a blood test, and some research that I was severely insulin resistant. I was at stage one of type 2 diabetes and had no clue for a long time.

I've been reading alot about prehistoric human diets and the interesting thing about them is they involve very little carbohydrates. Whatever anybody tells you about ketosis, or carbs...carbs are NOT an essential part of the human diet. This is a myth. I removed nearly all the carbs from my diet several weeks ago and have turned into a completely different person. I still get a few grams from spinach and broccoli, but I went from eating probably 3-4 hundred grams a day, to nearly zero the next and immediately my low blood sugar disappeared. Not only that, but everything else stopped too.

I was developing syndrome x. My depression, panic attacks, early hair loss, fatigue, social anxiety, and even my out of whack hormones were ALL because of this.

My depression disappeared immediately. I'm like rock solid steel now, nothing phases me. My anxiety is gone, no panic attacks at all.

The correlation between syndrome x, carbs and hair loss is insulin. If you're insulin resistant your body produces insane amounts of insulin because the cells are resistant to its effects. Insulin is highly inflammatory, and may be the REAL cause behind "genetic" balding. The minute I eliminated carbs from my diet my scalp smoothed out and the increased sebum that is characteristic of hair loss has disappeared. My scalp feels as smooth now as a baby's butt.

America is wrong, and has been wrong ever since the low-fat garbage came out. Fat, is NOT the enemy. I've tried the low-fat/low-calorie crap twice in my life. The summer before my junior year of HS, and at the time I didn't realize it, but I had not only lost all the fat but I lost all my lean muscle mass too. I looked awful, droopy skin and everything.

Again in 2004-2005. I looked even worse, and my body was really falling apart. This, interestingly enough, was when my blood sugar issues got really out of control and I started having to eat every 2 hours or I'd feel like I was gonna die. Also very coincidentally my hair began thinning exactly the same time as my blood sugar/insulin began to go crazy.

Carbohydrates are the problem, not fat. People need to stop eating so many carbs. Low-fat is deadly. Fat is actually good for heart disease when you stop eating carbs. Insulin is the reason fat gets stuck and deposited into arteries.

Saturated fat is HEALTHY for you. In fact it's the healthiest kind of fat you can eat. Why? Because it is the least likely to oxidize in the blood, and it must oxidize before it can damage anything. Omega-6 is the fat all those vegetable oil companies were promoting as the "healthy" alternative to saturated fat. Ironically, Omega-6 is the MOST likely to oxidize in the blood stream, and omega-6 is the fatty acid most often found stuck in arteries of dead people from heart attacks.

People have been brainwashed for years that low-fat is good for you, well I'm living proof that it's not.

I'm a totally different person now because of this low-carb diet.

Insulin resistance has been my problem forEVER. Even back in high school. Even before that, because I ate soooooooo much sugar all the time.

I have no belly now, in fact I have a small six pack starting to emerge. Me and a SIX PACK!?!?! I thought I was genetically just supposed to have a little pouch there no matter what. Not so. Insulin resistance is the culprit behind storing most of your "Fat" (actually mostly carbs turned into fat by insulin) in your belly.

People are being lied to. In fact I read a quote by an endocrinologist, yes an M.D. for christ's sake, that said eating sweets does not cause diabetes. Eating fat does. I think it was on the biblelife.org website.

That is literally the stupidest frickin thing I've ever heard of. Fat does not cause the production of insulin. Carbs do. Our bodies, by nature, were NOT designed to eat grains of ANY kind. Grains were developed much later on, and were never a part of the prehistoric human diet.

Our bodies are designed to run on fat, and the little bit of glucose it DOES need for the brain and heart it manufactures on its own from protein and a little fat without producing insulin because it only makes what it needs to survive.

I've eaten mostly fat, and some protein with lots of spinach for a couple weeks now. I eat lots of coconut oil, butter, (some) cheese, eggs, fatty chicken thighs, steaks and stuff, and I have almost only pure lean muscle mass left on my body.

No matter what ANYONE tells you, you don't need carbs. Those people that say you should load up on carbs the night before a run for energy are misinformed. That is seriously bad for you, and will send you on a one way train to serious diabetes. Thank god I caught it before I became diabetic.

Only question though that I can't find anywhere. Is it still possible, even without the carbs, to eat too much fat? I probably get around 160-170 grams per day, and I try to get all of them. Saturated, monounsaturated, omega 3...and the like. A good ratio. I don't see how it could be honestly. The more fat I eat the better I feel overall, and the more satiated I feel.

I eat 4-8 of those omega 3 eggs per day and I mix coconut oil into them when I scramble them, and I think it's the greatest meal ever.

EDIT: I should mention, though, about having almost only pure lean muscle mass left after 3 or so weeks of doing this...I wasn't really overweight by much...maybe 5-10 pounds or so. I started this primarily because of my blood sugar problems.

[Zer]

Wow, SaintAnger - only 22 and already on the right track in your understanding of health. A 6pack? Holy whatEVER! How cool!

Mind if I join you in a HaPpYdance? I'll just dance my fingers on the keyboard, as a lot of me is too heavy to move the way I'd like to dance. But I'm very very happy for you. Write ON!

Don't miss the ButterSnackers thread! Join folks who enjoy butter by itself, without spreading it on anything carby! Best butter? Kerry Irish Gold, from cows that graze on grass! That's the best tasting butter I've found so far. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=312500&page=1&pp=15

[Jen B]

SaintAnger:

I really enjoyed reading your story. You are an excellent writer - so articulate. And so young to have discovered so much!

I'm with you 100%. Carbs are the enemy! Carbs are the things that binges are made of. For some people, even veggies can create a problem. Fat is the fuel that satisfies.

Even if I tried, I could never binge on fat or protein, so I feel there's a built-in monitor for my intake. I don't worry about having too much. Like you said, the balance is everything. Omega 3/6 ratio, the ratio of fat to protein, etc.

Thanks for joining in here. Your input is amazing!

[Zer]

SaintAnger, will you be our boytoy? Oh, I'm feeling scandalous!

[Zer]

Fat is actually good for heart disease when you stop eating carbs. Insulin is the reason fat gets stuck and deposited into arteries.

Saturated fat is HEALTHY for you. In fact it's the healthiest kind of fat you can eat. Why? Because it is the least likely to oxidize in the blood, and it must oxidize before it can damage anything. Omega-6 is the fat all those vegetable oil companies were promoting as the "healthy" alternative to saturated fat. Ironically, Omega-6 is the MOST likely to oxidize in the blood stream, and omega-6 is the fatty acid most often found stuck in arteries of dead people from heart attacks. I'm now on the lookout for Omega-6, which I think is in some of my supplements. Thank you for the heads-up on this! Woo-HOO!

[SaintAnger]

I'm now on the lookout for Omega-6, which I think is in some of my supplements. Thank you for the heads-up on this! Woo-HOO!

Believe it or not Omega-6 is actually good for you, actually it's essential. Omega-3,6 and 9 are essential. 3 and 6 in smaller amounts and I believe a 3:1 ratio (6 being higher) and 9 is separate being oleic acid, the monounsaturated fat in olive oil.

But the trick is antioxidants. Lots of vitamin E and C would be good.

Saturated fat is the most important though. Your body needs saturated fat, so I've read, more than anything else you could ever eat. That's why people get so sick when they take it out and up the carbs.

[SaintAnger]

SaintAnger, will you be our boytoy? Oh, I'm feeling scandalous!

Totally. I'm quite the scandalous person.

:yum:

[Zer]

As we discuss upping the fats, imagine my dismay as my sibling tells me she's cut fats out of her life, has not had butter for a long time and is pleased to report her knees feel less painful as a result. I do not know what to say, except that I'm glad her knees are not painful. She knows that I buy butter, eat butter, and am involved in a LC plan that is 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs (when I'm on track). So I guess there's nothing to say to her, as she explores various plans and finds her own path to health. But I am a believer in butter, in olive oil, in fats.

[Jen B]

Another one fallen prey to the programming, the lowfat mantra that has been preached for decades. So many people were born after the lowfat propoganda began that they think it's a "fact" rather than a very deadly "fad." Sad indeed ...

[SusieOR]

This a great thread - very informative. I've stalled in my weight loss and am trying Coconut oil and higher fat, generally. Nervous, but food definitely tastes better. I have a question, though. Has anyone found that upping the fat in the diet really aids weight loss? I thought it had moved me off a plateau at one point but I think I was just due for a move, having stalled for weeks. Low carb has worked for me in the past but its excrutiatingly slow at my present age! :help:

[FatFreeMe]

She knows that I buy butter, eat butter, and am involved in a LC plan that is 75% fat, 20% protein and 5% carbs (when I'm on track). So I guess there's nothing to say to her, as she explores various plans and finds her own path to health. But I am a believer in butter, in olive oil, in fats.
I want to point out though, its like that on here, what works for you may not work for the next person. So, she should explore various plans, to my way of thinking. I know I did. They didn't work (for me). That's why eventually I ended up here. Be thankful she isn't like MY sister, "are you still on Atkins? that diet will kill you!' So, the next time I tried it, I told her i was on the GI diet, close enough for me! :lol: I hate lying, but who is she to run down what I eat?
If your sister ever tires of eating carrot sticks with watery low fat dressing for dip, you should introduce her to Low Carb! The best thing you can do is just keep on keeping on! and become an inspiration to those of us here, and PROVE to her LC works!

[mac3]

Thankyou so much for this thread. I have been dabbling with lc for a long time. I know it works and it has been the only thing that has worked for me ever. I just get suckered back into the "low fat is the way" kind of thinking. I keep hearing " you are not getting the antioxidants that you need nor the fiber. You are going to be a walking heart attack." Blah, blah, blah. I just started back on lc today. I dread the lc flu, but i will tough it out. I know that I will be feeling better soon. I vow not to read anything at the checkout that rings the praises of lowfat woe. Not only am i a carb junkie, but also a magazine junkie. LOL. Everyone here is so wonderful and I am glad I am back.

p.s. I love tropical traditions co. It has really helped with my hypothyroidism and my gallbladder issues.

[mike_d]

FAT is my FRIEND I am planning to fry up some lean pork belly tonight, sprinkle it with lemon juice and have it with broccoli or a small greens salad :yum:

The pork belly I buy is raised natural & unseasoned, I slice it myself still frozen and the % fat calories to lean is about right-- close to 80% to %20.

[Zer]

Mike, does your lean pork belly look like bacon? I'm thinking it is a lot like Canadian bacon or ham, from what you say. Can you slip us a picture of what you cook up, for those of us who are trying to visualize this stuff you buy locally as natural and unseasoned. I don't think I'd even recognize it if I went to a butcher shop where meat is laid out in slabs and hunks.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/05/11/Columns/Pork_bellies__This_fa.shtml is a mouth-watering account of how slabs of fat are served up at fine dining spots for folks who are now carving up fat and forking it up by the mouthful!

[jschwab]

I love this thread so much that I had to reply. I had a wonderful meal tonight at a restaurant. I asked for a description of the pork rib chop and the waiter lovingly described the fat on it "like when we were kids" " a real porkchop". I was enchanted and ordered it and put two pats of butter on it - wonderful!!!

Janine

[Samantha22]

I've been dealing with alot of "degenerative" issues, and guess what. I'm only 22 years old.

The root problem for me, really my whole life, has been physiological. Never mental. I realized through a blood test, and some research that I was severely insulin resistant. I was at stage one of type 2 diabetes and had no clue for a long time.


No matter what ANYONE tells you, you don't need carbs. Those people that say you should load up on carbs the night before a run for energy are misinformed. That is seriously bad for you, and will send you on a one way train to serious diabetes. Thank god I caught it before I became diabetic.



I agree with most of what you said..but i'm curious...are you diabetic or not...because type 2 diabetes is type 2 diabetes...there aren't "stages"....and you say you caught this before you became diabetic?

[ppuffy3859]

I agree with most of what you said..but i'm curious...are you diabetic or not...because type 2 diabetes is type 2 diabetes...there aren't "stages"....and you say you caught this before you became diabetic?

Hi Samantha! I noticed you're a nurse and you know your stuff. I'm also a type II, and I noticed this and maybe thought that he meant that you can hold the diabetes at bay so to speak and be what is termed a "latent" diabetic? Kind of like having cancer but being in remission? I don't know, maybe not the best analogy, but I'd be very interested to hear a med professional's thoughts on whether it's really possible to keep diabetes at bay indefinitely if one were to keep eating lowcarb and keep the numbers in a prediabetic range. What do you think? Thanks!

[suze_c]

In 1993 when Susan Powter's STOP THE INSANITY was such a huge thing- I tried it- stopped eating fats basically- got my daily fat % to 10% of my daily calories, and was proud of the days when I was actually able to have 0% days. I ate 1600-1800 daily calories, and was so full on what I did eat- that I couldn't always eat what she said I should for my daily cal. count. Did I lose weight? Yes- 40 pounds in 3 months, and I was as small as I was when I weighed about 50 pounds less than that!~ I lost inches so fast, everyone wanted to know what I was taking.

Thing is- I also lost the weight, when I done Stillman's diet as well. Now I hear that this kimkins diet is about the same as it- except lower fat meats and there are fewer items allowed at first.

I believe we all can lose weight,- the key is finding what works for someone. And the long term key is finding a way to eating that one can live with. Face it- how many pounds have any of us lost, only to regain it when "stopping the diet".

[davidcoast]

We've been sold a big fat lie by the food industry. I think there are 2 possible reasons for this. First, the vegetable oil industry needed to push out traditional good fats like butter, animal fat and olive and coconut oils to make room for their new hydrogenated fats which are cheaper than butter and also easy to manipulate chemically. This makes hydrogenated vegetable oils ideal for manufacturing edible products (What else can you call them? They aren't food). Selling the public on these fats involved creating health claims for the new oil products while concurrently demonizing saturated fats such as butter, beef and coconut oil as unhealthy. For a long time we were told that margarine made with trans fat was healthier than butter. And although we have been told for many years that saturated fat clogs our arteries a paper published in the Lancet in 1994 in which arterial clogs were analyzed found zero saturated fat. Instead, the predominant material clogging the arteries was adulterated (ruined)vegetable oils, in particular, ruined omega 6 (i.e. toxic) which is one of the 2 essential fatty acids. This did not make front page news. Guess why?

When the food industry and our governments began to promote the high carbohydrate diet it is probable that it was known at that time that this would lead to an epidemic of obesity since all fat produced by conversion of glucose from carbs, as well as any fat consumed, are stored in the body as fat. The worst possible diet is high carb, high fat. This is not rocket science. Nor is it subject to conjecture. Its Fa(c)t.

For those who are afraid that eating fat will make them fat I suggest that you do what I do. Find a pharmacy that has a medical version of a fat analyzer such as the Tanita and measure your fat mass every month or so. My % of body fat has steadily decreased on a low carb, very high (good) fat diet. Whenever possible I get organic full fat products such as raw milk cheese. At my last reading my body fat was 7.3%. For someone my age (62) it would normally be well over 20%.

A very important part of my fat program is to avoid as much as possible all commercial vegetable oils while taking about 1 teaspoon per day of an essential fatty acid supplement with an omega 3/6 ratio of about 1:2. This supplement is formulated from organic, cold-pressed, unrefined flax, safflower and pumpkin oils. I do not take any fish oil. There are potentially serious health problems with the high fish oil intake recommended by just about everyone today. More on this later.

[Jen B]

This thread has been inactive for a while, so I thought I'd come back and stir things up!

I just read Gary Taubes new book, "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Boy, was that chock full of mind-blowing information! My conclusion after reading it is a verification of what I already knew: carbs bad, fat & protein good. But arriving at that conclusion through reading this book is an awesome task.

Those who are analyzers and require lots of stats and proof will love this book! It seems like a very definitive, landmark book to me. It certainly illustrates the insane progression of the "low-fat" and "cholesterol" myths that have been forcefully propogated upon us for the last 50 years or so!

Taubes is a journalistic science writer, and an extremely good one. He extensively reports all the history and data and facts, and allows the reader to draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions. It's a very empowering, credible book.

I keep thinking to myself about why we would have been so blatantly lied to over the years. And I've come up with some sad conclusions. Cholesterol and fat have been linked in the group mind to heart disease (and other diseases) and obesity, and it seems to me that the purpose was to make us sick.

Once we're sick, we have to go to doctors and they tell us we must take drugs. The end result is that Big Pharma gets lots and lots of money. The doctors get it too, but they're just the drug pushers that are trained and controlled by the real monster behind the machine: corporate greed.

My husband always tells me: Whenever you see insane lies being shoved down the collective throat of the group, just tell yourself: "Follow the money." Once you do, you see who the culprits are, their methods, and their motivations fairly clearly.

The whole thing seems so dastardly and cold-hearted, and I feel so sad when I see what's really going on. But I feel much better after I eat my grilled, rare ribeye with melted butter on top. :D

[Jen B]

Dr. Mike never ceases to amaze me with his fascinating blogs! If you want to improve the health of your elderly relatives, the best thing you can do is hide their statins and buy them a steak dinner. http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=968

[Zer]

Follow the money to find out why drugs are pushed, why bad food - processed food - is said to be healthier for us than traditional natural food that our forebears raised or churned or baked from whole unprocessed ingredients. Chilling indictment of nutritionists who tout a food pyramid created by purveyors of processed food. Drug companies too depend on our belief that a pill can cure us, when in fact we suffer from an array of nutritional deficiencies. Sunshine is coming back now, as a healthy way to improve a body's function. Sunshine. It's free!

[Citruskiss]

Well, I certainly feel as though I was duped by this whole thing too. And it makes me even more upset to hear stories from my diabetic uncle, who once innocently asked his 'diabetes specialist' doctor about going on a low-carb diet. Nope, he was told to add some more medications to his ever-growing pill collection. He's gained even more weight and is having serious eye problems.

Meanwhile, my Mom's on a statin medication - and she doesn't even have 'high' cholesterol. Just because someone said she's 'high risk' and 'should' be taking this very important medicine.

Hmmph.

Oh, and how 'bout the fact that when she went on a cruise awhile back, she ate more salads than usual, and this messed with her blood (she's on Coumadin)...so she was told to cut back on the salads. !!!!! Meanwhile, she's also been told *not* to take fish oil either, since she's on the Coumadin, a blood-thinning drug.

My father in law was hospitalized with liver problems last winter ....because of his statin medication. Oh, and now he has diabetes too. He's been living on 'low fat' for years.

The longer I'm following a low-carb WOE, the more informed I become. Participating here has really opened my eyes to a lot of things. In fact, I'm actually grateful that it has taken me this long to lose the weight that I have so far - because this journey has been a huge learning curve. Kind of like a de-programming of sorts. I've come so far from what I used to believe about food that it's incredible.

Trouble is - the people I care about are still clutching their pills and their 'healthy diet'. Trying really hard to follow their doctor's recommendations. Feeling like they're failing somehow, because their health issues keep getting worse, and they have to keep taking more and more different kinds of medications to 'control' it all.

Sorry for the rant. :mad:

[Zer]

Scary, isn't it, when people we care about put their trust in MDs and meds while we are learning that nutrition (and malnutrition) has a serious impact on health? All I can hope is that somehow I can live a life that makes people question what it is that I am doing to avoid the colds and ailments that they deal with. I try to point out what I eat has a LOT to do with my good health. At my weight, it's hard to prove that eating butter is better than eating margarine - but someday I shall broadcast that Dr.Atkins led me from ignorance to understanding that food is fuel for a body that wants to function well. Atkins and ALGittleman both emphasize that natural unprocessed food is the best fuel, with organic food being worth seeking and paying extra.

As your health improves, perhaps some folks will begin to ask you what it is that you do to build better health. Let's hope so.

[davidcoast]

Jen B, thank you for starting this thread. You said: "My husband always tells me: Whenever you see insane lies being shoved down the collective throat of the group, just tell yourself: "Follow the money." Once you do, you see who the culprits are, their methods, and their motivations fairly clearly."

Following the money only shows where the money has been, not where it is going. And where the money is going is far more important than where it has been. The one thing we do know for certain is that opportunity is 'the magnet' for 'the money'. And there is plenty of opportunity in the growing epidemic of overweight obesity, especially if drugs were to become the treatment of choice and were required to be taken for life.

Big Pharma has seen this opportunity is is now funding research to discover drugs that, among other things, would block fat storage. Meantime, the psychiatric profession is seeking to have obesity classified as an official form of mental illness.

An article called 'What Fuels Fat' in the September 2007 issue of Scientific American gives a clue as to where 'the money' is going. Here's a quote: " Many experts believe that successful drug therapy for obesity will eventually involve MULTIPLE DRUGS (my emphasis) acting through independent pathways, in combinations tailored to individual patients as is now the case for treating hypertension and diabetes. Of course, as with other common diseases such as hypertension, it WOULD BE (note the use of the past tense) preferable to treat people with changes in diet and lifestyle alone. But if that approach fails, and morbid consequences result, SAFE (this is a joke, right?) drug therapies would be no less appropriate for obesity than for OTHER (my emphasis) illnesses."

From the above it is obvious that overweight and obesity is being shifted from a consequence of eating the wrong type of fuel to a medically classified illness. If the money is indeed behind this it explains the position of mainstream medicine that virtually all diets fail when it comes to maintaining weight lose. In this outcome the money clearly leads to Big Pharma.

[davidcoast]

Check out the latest NY Times review of Taubes's book. This reviewer got it right.

www.nytimes.com/2007/10/09/science/09tier.html?_r=1&ref=science&pagewanted=all

[Jen B]

And here's Dr. Mike's review of the Times review: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=970

Good stuff!

[Zer]

Dr.Mike is right. Being affable counts for a lot in life. I wonder if Dr.Atkins knew this about himself, that he rubbed folks wrong and that was what was holding back the value of his thinking about the virtue of LC eating. Being a person of indifferent ability to charm, I can see that I've gotten in my own way a lot - in jobs and with casual acquaintances. I wish it were otherwise. I really do. Sigh.

Thanks for this super thread. Lots of grist for the mill.

[davidcoast]

The problem is that Atkins personality became synonymous with low carb. When you mention low carb the typically response is "Oh, that Atkins thing." You will note in the Nightline interview of Taubes that the interviewer baits Taubes into saying "Atkins was right". Once he said this the majority would immediately dismiss Taubes book.

[Zer]

Invariably those who dismiss Atkins have not read his DANDR and are depending on negative press. I ask. Always get an admission that the comment is based on 2d hand info. (shrug)

[davidcoast]

Agree. Unfortunately most people are influenced by what the majority do or think. So if the popular view is that Atkins and low carb are dangerous and unproven few will bother to look further.

[Zer]

Agreed. When I am wavering in my own program, I think of how I want to succeed if only to prove that LC is a viable plan for a healthy life - not just losing weight, which folks make a lot of, but also good health. I do get comments on my health, aside from fat and a hinky hip. People given to colds and such note that I am not often suffering from one. I tell them it's genes and the fact that I wrap up at first sign of a chill or sniffle and am almost always wearing layers of lightweight clothes that I can adjust as SoCal's temp shifts during a normal day/night.

I'd like to look as good as I often feel, to say I owe LC/Atkins all and to speak up for eating fat and dodging starch. Sure would.

[OtherCher2]

Way back in the olden days (about 45 years to be exact), long before "low fat" products were ever invented, my little old grandmother decided she was getting too heavy. She quit eating potatoes and gravy, bread and dessert. This amazing little woman had it all figured out back in 1960 without any research!

[ojoj]

Way back in the olden days (about 45 years to be exact), long before "low fat" products were ever invented, my little old grandmother decided she was getting too heavy. She quit eating potatoes and gravy, bread and dessert. This amazing little woman had it all figured out back in 1960 without any research!


Waaaaaay back when I was 17 (1981), I was preparing for my first wedding and needed to shift a few pounds (I was 135lbs and thought I was fat!!!!!), anyway, my mum told me the exact same thing - cut out bread, potatoes and sugary things. It worked beautfully. That seemed to be the way people dieted in those days - no mention of low-fat

[davidcoast]

One of the more disturbing things about the calorie 'theory' (it is just that in my view) is that it puts all 3 macro food groups on the same level. Nutritionists will claim that "a calorie is a calorie and that it doesn't matter whether calories come from carbs, protein or fat". Really??

If you have a cat in your family (I do) you probably know, or at least should know that cats are carnivores. There is no question about this. Carbs are poison to a cat. But experts in animal nutrition will claim that "a calorie is a calorie". So it is alright to put cats on a high carb diet.

To give an example, one brand of food sold only though vets who also just happen to prescribe it (no conflict here) has a formulation called 'Preventative Formula' implying that it will prevent illness. The macro ingredients are chicken meal, rice, corn gluten and corn. Now we all now that the carbs are listed in 3 forms so they will not be shown as the single biggest ingredient. In fact this is a high carb formula. Chicken meal is the garbage that can't be used for human food. So its protein quality is questionable.

Anyone who has followed the incidence of such things as obesity and type II diabetes in cats will know that its rise has paralleled the trend in humans (Gee, I wonder why?). Makes you want to shout "It's the carbs stupid" right? Not according to the experts. The problem according to them is...............wait for it: cats don't get enough exercise! That's why they are getting fat and diabetic" Huh?? I feed my cat a diet almost devoid of carbs and he sleeps all day and never gains an ounce. How many fat wild animals have you seen? None.

In the other words, the experts who promote the calorie theory believe that organisms are inefficient or just plain incapable of managing fat storage. What about the miraculous mechanism of homeostasis? Did they forget about that?

[mzsunrize]

I have an obese cat that I feed the "indoor formula" cat food which has carb fillers. Should I be feeding her higher protein foods instead? I think I'm going to put the cat on a Feline low carb program and see what happens. We feed her 3/4 cup a day only...and she weighs over 17lbs!!!

[davidcoast]

The good new is that there are now several good no-grain, very low carb cat foods on the market with human grade protein (maybe we should eat this stuff). One brand I use is EVO by Innova. It has 7% carbs and is in dry kibble and canned forms. They were one of the first to offer such foods. I also feed my cat some raw meat every day. This further reduces the net carbs and increases the protein.

Once any dog or cat is full grown it is better to feed them only once a day with occasional fasting days. Like humans, a cat or dog on a diet with any significant amount of carbs tends to eat constantly. I am on an intermittent fast VLC diet. I eat 2 meals a day interspersed with 1 meal per day. Interestingly, I am seldom hungry even after not eating for more than a day.

[Kristine]

It's a little too much work and expense for a lot of people, but google "BARF diet" - it's basically Catkins. ;)

[Zer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_feeding explores the debate.

I tried raw liver on my cats. They did not recognize it as edible.
Freeze-dried liver snacks were gobbled up as fast as dispensed.

How does one introduce cats/dogs to raw food?

Oh, maybe the storebought liver was not fresh enough?
I'd occasionally find evidence that my housecats were
finding fresh prey - leaving me a mouse nose and tail,
apparently the only parts they found indigestible. Urk!

[portcop01]

Any One Here Ever Done The Meat And Egg Diet With Upping The Fat???