Raw Cultured Veggies

[Jen B]

I'm using raw cultured veggies as part of my probiotic campaign against candida overgrowth. I've got a pretty aggressive approach going, and after two weeks, my extreme die-off phase seems to have subsided and I feel like I am 'among the living' again.

My campaign includes Oreganol Super Strength drops (5 drops under the tongue twice per day - I add water when the heat gets too strong), colloidal silver, coconut oil, flaxseeds, and a very spartan diet consisting of meat, eggs, nuts, yogurt, and cultured veggies. The only condiment I use is homemade mayonnaise made with walnut oil, egg, dry mustard, salt, cayenne, and lemon juice.

I've read a lot about raw cultured vegetables on the internet, but haven't seen too much mention about them on this forum. They have to be made without heat or pasteurization, and you won't find them on the grocery shelf with sauerkraut and other pickled items. Those are pretty much 'dead' as far as enzymes, probiotics, etc.

The "real deal' veggies are absolutely delicious and the perfect compliment with any protein. I eat them every day with dinner. They're not cheap. I get mine at the health food store in the refrigerated case. The brand name my store carries is "Rejuvenative Foods."

I have ordered a 'Fermenting Crock,' and once I receive it, I will be making my own in 4-quart batches. I bought some veggie culture starter from Body Ecology online. Making my own will be lots cheaper and I can try different veggie combinations.

I was just wondering if anyone else was using raw cultured vegetables as a probiotic, as well as a delicious, nutritious food source. The site below is the Rejuvenative Foods site, but it explains the benefits of these veggies for candida and other health concerns very well. I'm not trying to plug this company, mind you; it's just very informative and, like I said, the only brand I can find locally. http://www.rejuvenative.com/articleRCV.htm

I feel like I've really been kicking this candida thing in the butt, and wanted to share what is working for me.

[Nancy LC]

I think there were some folks in the Paleo forum doing this. I believe the book Nourishing Traditions is big on culturing almost anything and everything. :D

My Mom made raw sauerkraut once, it was the best tasting stuff I ever had. When she tried the second batch though, it rotted!

[lhill]

the oil of oregano and i thought i would ask you, do you have to eat this way the rest of your like or just until you get the candida under control?
linda

[Jen B]

Linda, I think eventually the candida will be in balance as it should be, but I don't have any desire to change my diet to anything much different than it is right now. My addictions are in remission, my hunger is minimal, my cravings are gone, my weight is dropping, all my health issues are re-balancing.

The overgrowth of candida was due to my alcohol, sugar, and carb abuse for many years of my life. The way I'm eating now is not just for correcting the candida. It's for my general health from now on, my weight regulation, my freedom from the insanity of my past behaviors. I will be eating close to how I'm eating now for the rest of my life, because it helps me 'have a life.'

[Malulani]

JenB

what exactly do these taste like?....... I am interested and am going to see if my health food store carries them. Anything NEW you can add to this diet is welcome!!!!!

[Jen B]

They sort of taste like sauerkraut. I find that if I buy them without salt added, I need to add a little salt to them. The Rejuvenative Foods brand has a few varieties, and they are very expensive. They are tasty, but I don't necessarily like the consistency of the one that has beets in it. It's almost pulverized like baby food. I like the Kim Chee variety.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to making it myself and will post my results here. I can make a large amount for pretty cheap (after the initial investment for the crock, jars, and starter. After it's cultured, it lasts for months in the frig and gets better with age. I can use whatever veggies I want and control the size of the pieces. I also want to put in lots of garlic (which is also good for candida) and maybe some chopped jalepeno for heat. I already have the veggie starter culture, but I'm waiting for my fermenting crock and jars to arrive.

[Jen B]

From what I am reading, lacto-fermented foods, such as raw cultured vegetables and active culture yogurt, may contain a great deal less carbohydrates than what is listed on the label. The reason is that the lacto-fermentation process actually uses up the carbs, converting them to lactic acid, and lowering the carb content. The glycemic load of lacto-fermented foods is also reduced. Here are some interesting quotes I found.

“Kay Schmidt suggests a similar way to reduce the blood glucose levels of some fruits and vegetables. It uses a process called lacto-fermentation, which she explains:

‘I manage my insulin dependent type 2 mom, using Dr. Richard Bernstein’s philosophy of low carb. Mom misses some of her favorite foods, and I have been searching for ways to make it possible to let her enjoy some foods again.

‘Recently, I learned about lacto-fermentation (pickling using whey instead of vinegar), and its health benefits. I made lacto-fermented pickled beets, apple slices, zucchini, and yellow summer squash. I then had mom eat samples—about 1/4 cup each—and checked her blood sugars every 1/2 hour for 2 hours. I could not believe the results. The pickled beets and apples did not budge mom’s sugars. Ordinarily, beets and apples will cause mom’s sugars to spike too high. I even cooked the fermented apples into an apple sauce, and this didn’t budge mom’s blood sugar. Zucchini and yellow summer squash normally has only a small effect on mom’s sugar, but the lacto-fermented samples didn’t budge her blood sugar.

‘Lacto-fermentation is different than just eating acidic foods. The lacto-fermentation process actually uses carbs in the food, converts it to lactic acid, and lowers the carb content. Fermented foods are a condiment, not a side dish, and so large amounts are not eaten at a time. Despite the seemingly small serving size, the fermentation adds enzymes and nutrients. Canned, cooked, or frozen vegetables and fruits lose nutrients. Most lacto-fermented foods are still considered raw food, so enzymes and nutrients are retained, and have the added benefit of nutrients being added back in by lacto-fermentation. …

‘Sally Fallon’s book, Nourishing Traditions, (NewTrends Publishing, 1999) is an introduction to lacto-fermentation. Other books include Klaus Kaufmann and Annelies Schoneck’s Making Sauerkraut and Pickled Vegetables at Home (Alive Books, 2002), and Sandor Ellix Katz's Wild Fermentation (Chelsea Green Publishing, 2003).’”
…

“Yogurt, kefir, and buttermilk is another group of low-carbohydrate foods where the sugar is converted to lactic acid. These foods are so important that they are a major part of one “corner” of The Four Corners Diet by Dr. Jack Goldberg, Dr. Karen O'Mara with Gretchen Becker (New York: Marlowe & Company, 2004).

“Because lactic acid doesn’t raise blood glucose levels the way lactose and other sugars do, you don’t need to count all the carbohydrates on the food labels of these “probiotic foods,” they say. In fact, you can subtract 1 gram of carbohydrate for each ounce of these foods.

‘Thus, for a standard 8-ounce container of plain yogurt, which usually says it has about 12 grams of carbohydrate, you need to count only 4,’ the book continues. ‘This is not just speculation. Dr. Goldberg has actually measured the carbohydrate content in his own laboratory.’”
http://www.mendosa.com/acidic_foods.htm

“The lacto-fermentation process actually uses carbohydrates in the food, converts it to lactic acid, and lowers the carbohydrate content.” http://www.wildyeastbakery.co.uk/health.htm

“The carbs in plain yogurt are 3 times less than USDA says. It's because the lactofermentation probiotics eat the lactose (type of milk sugar) and turn it into lactic acid.” http://www.websitepublisher.net/forums/showthread.php?t=945&page=3&pp=15

I know there are some folks who disagree with this premise, but since Dr. Goldberg has actually measured the carb content of food in his own laboratory after lacto-fermentation, and he says the carb count was about one gram lower per ounce, I tend to feel that this way of looking at it is valid.

Since my yogurt is from almond milk, the carb count is already low, so I'm thinking the lacto-fermentation process actually would make the carb count virtually zero.

And the possibility of using such things as carrots and beets seems more feasible to me now because I know the carb content would be reduced through lacto-fermentation.

[Nancy LC]

Don't you add some food for the bacteria to eat, to your almond milk yogurt? I put some honey in there.

Could one culture veggies like yogurt? Heat to kill wild bacteria and yeasts then add culture and leave at 90-110?

It wouldn't be raw, which isn't as good, but it would be fast and would eliminate the possibility of having wild strains of bad bacteria you really don't want to eat.

[Malulani]

I'm just buying plain Lowfat Dannon yogurt with active cultures.........Is there a better one?..I thought that we could not eat hiney.........honey bad for candida???

I find it's yummy to put stevia in yogurt with some cinnammon or I put in some fresh lemon to make lemony yogurt. .......zip it up a bit.

Thanx for info on cultured veggies. I'm going to look them up at a health store we have here..........it's a very large store, so maybe the price would not be as high as a smaller store and they may have a bigger selection. One thing I WILL NOT eat tho is beets.........blech!!!!!!!!! I'm choking broccoli down sprinkled with lemon juice and doing allright, but I gag on beets!!!!

[Jen B]

Malulani: Nancy LC meant do I put honey in with the culture when I'm making yogurt. The sugar ends up getting eaten by the culture, so there's none left in the finished product. I use grade b maple syrup when I make yogurt.

Yes, honey or any sugar will feed candida yeast, so avoid it like the plague until candida is rebalanced.

I've heard the Dannon plain yogurt is a good one. I believe the lady that wrote the Specific Carb Diet said that's a good brand to use as the starter for making yogurt. But I personally wouldn't choose lowfat. Fat is good for you!

On the Rejuvenative Foods cultured veggies, the Kim Chee is definitely my favorite.

[dina1957]

I have ordered a 'Fermenting Crock,' and once I receive it, I will be making my own in 4-quart batches. I bought some veggie culture starter from Body Ecology online. Making my own will be lots cheaper and I can try different veggie combinations.

I was just wondering if anyone else was using raw cultured vegetables as a probiotic, as well as a delicious, nutritious food source. The site below is the Rejuvenative Foods site, but it explains the benefits of these veggies for candida and other health concerns very well. I'm not trying to plug this company, mind you; it's just very informative and, like I said, the only brand I can find locally. http://www.rejuvenative.com/articleRCV.htm

I feel like I've really been kicking this candida thing in the butt, and wanted to share what is working for me.
I love fermented veggies and make them all the time: sauerkraut, green tomatoes, beets, pickles, spicy red cabbage with carrots,garlic,and beets, eggplants suffed with shreded carrots and herbs, and ... fermented watermelons ( as weird as it sounds, they tatse delicious). I do also make a yummy lactofermented green leave lettuce, which is a bit bitter and tough in it's raw state. I donlt use any why or bacterial culture, just let the air bacteria turn the sugar into the lactic acid. Lactofermented food is terrific for digestion and vegetables are great side dish to a hearty meat dishes. As the matter of fact, the only draw back of the fermented veggies is the additional sodium, otherwise, it's delicious and great way to preserve summer veggies.

[dina1957]

When she tried the second batch though, it rotted!
My guess, it could be two reasons:
1) she did not put enough salt
2) too much pecticides in cabbage
Otherwise, I can't imagines why iot become rotten. Never happened in my 25 years of making sauerkraut.

[Jen B]

Wow, Dina, you sound like the expert here. Do you have a book on it? Do you follow recipes or just play it by ear? Do you cover the veggies with brine while they ferment? How long do you let them ferment before putting them in the frig?

I'm kind of afraid to try making them without whey or starter. I've read forums where people's attempts to ferment veggies goes bad, and I wonder what they have done wrong.

My fermenting crock arrives today, so maybe reading the paperwork that comes with it will help make it all clear for me. The crock has weighted stones that go on top of the veggies and you're supposed to fill the brine up to the top of the stones. Then the lid seats down into a seal to keep the air out. I want to eventually do it without the starter. That stuff's not cheap and I'm sure it can be done, like you say. People in the olden days certainly didn't have to depend on commercially-packaged starter. ;)

I'm a complete newbie at this. Any detailed advice you can give will be appreciated. The description of what you make sounds delicious!

P.S. I just read your last post. So you use salt. Do you use celtic gray sea salt. How much do you use? The kim chee I purchased doesn't have any salt and I wasn't planning on using any, but if that's the way to do it when you're not using whey or starter, I will try that once my starter is gone. I have to add salt to the kim chee anyway to eat it. Might as well add it in the preparation instead.

[Nancy LC]

Jen, where did you find the hardware for fermenting veggies?

[Jen B]

It's a Harsch Fermenting Crock. I got the 7.5 liter size. I ordered it online. It was about $100.

[dina1957]

Wow, Dina, you sound like the expert here. Do you have a book on it? Do you follow recipes or just play it by ear? Do you cover the veggies with brine while they ferment? How long do you let them ferment before putting them in the frig?
I am used to fermenting and follow my mother's recipes. However, I do have a book, called Wild Fermentation, but I got it from my kids as a present, but never use it. I follow recipe for pickles and tomatoes, and in general for cuckes: 1 heaping tbs of salt for 1 liter (still like the metric system) of water, green tomatoes - take twice of this amount: 2tbs for 1 liter. Sauerkraut is eye balling: handful for 1/2 of medium head of cabage.I brine all veggies except sauerkraut, which I pack until the juice is released, and then I simply cover it with tight fitting plate and then weight on the top, so it's covered by it's own juice while fermenting. The time depend of many conditions, but your taste buds would tell when it's ready. I also add small amount of shreeded carrots to the cabbage, this provides some natural sugar to aid fermentaiton and looks pretty in the final product.

I'm kind of afraid to try making them without whey or starter. I've read forums where people's attempts to ferment veggies goes bad, and I wonder what they have done wrong.
If you are new, make a small batch, add enough salt and keep it under brain or it's own juice, it will be fine, it's not a rocket science, trust me. But if you use sealed crock, which I never used before, then I guess you need starter.

My fermenting crock arrives today, so maybe reading the paperwork that comes with it will help make it all clear for me. The crock has weighted stones that go on top of the veggies and you're supposed to fill the brine up to the top of the stones. Then the lid seats down into a seal to keep the air out. I want to eventually do it without the starter. That stuff's not cheap and I'm sure it can be done, like you say. People in the olden days certainly didn't have to depend on commercially-packaged starter. ;)
Actually, this is not the best time of the year for fermenting. I do it starting late fall and through the winter (sauerkraut) and pickles. The best cabbage arrives in late fall: juicy and ripe, good pickels, and green tomatoes are good off the vine. All in all, it depends of what bacteria is in your house, kitchen temperature, etc. I never seal hermetically my crock, I have few not too expensive, with wooden lids: smaller for cabbage and bigest for tomatoes, that require more room. Before I've used just any non-reactive container, like glass jar or pot with a good enamel, and create my own weight stone from a jar filled with water. I never used the sealed crock, so I suspect this is the reason to use starter. How else the bacteria will get into the product, if you seal it, then you need to use starter or it wil never ferment, and simply will rot and become bitter. I am sure the crock has recipes included, so it won't be a problem.
The whole point of fermentation, is to introduce good bacteria so it can turn natural sugars into lactic acid (yougurt) and grow in number, so it can fight harmfull candida. It's all about which one populates your colon, LOL.
Another thing when making fermented cabbage, you ned to vent it a bit while fermenting or the gas will ruin the taste of the product. So I keep it at room temperature for about a week (depending how warm is your kitchen) and then open the lid, make a whole int he middle using rolling pin (I pack mine very tightly) and let it sit so the gas could escape before transferring to the fridge. Warning: it will stink;) .

P.S. I just read your last post. So you use salt. Do you use celtic gray sea salt. How much do you use? The kim chee I purchased doesn't have any salt and I wasn't planning on using any, but if that's the way to do it when you're not using whey or starter, I will try that once my starter is gone. I have to add salt to the kim chee anyway to eat it. Might as well add it in the preparation instead.
ASAIK, Kim chee is made with fish or soy sauce, at least, the authentic one. I don;t make kim che, i buy it from korena market, the owner makes it's own, non pasturised, and it's delicious.
I use kosher salt for pickling and fermenting, it's easy to measure, but I think celtic would do too, it's just too expensive so I use it in cooking and sprinkling on tomatoes in summer. But you would need to adjust the amount. If you use whey, you can half the amount of salt, I guess, but I never treid it. Whey is easy to get from draining plain yougurt, you won need a lot of it.
I would adivise you to start small and something easy to make, like brined cuckes, take a glass jar with a tight lid, and make a small batch. if you like it, you can play with cabbage, beets, etc. I don't know how big is your crock, but I would start with 2-3 Liter jar (1/2 to 3.4 of gallon) and scale up as a master it. This way you won't feel frustrated if it goes wrong and won't waste your time and a bunch of product.
HTH,
Dina

[Jen B]

Dina, thank you for all the information from your experience and wisdom. I do appreciate it!

[dina1957]

You are welcome, Jen.

[Jen B]

I just bought some Fresh Cultured Live Salsa from Rejuvenative Foods. It has cabbage, tomatoes, carrots, onions, peppers, beets, cilantro, lemon juice, celtic sea salt, and garlic. It is nice and spicy. It is absolutely delicious. I had some with my ribeye steak last night, and I'm chomping at the bit to have some more tonight.

My fermenting crock has over 4 quarts of veggies sitting in it now since Sunday (4 days). I'm going to wait 2 weeks before I open it. I'm somewhat nervous about what I'll find, being this is my first time. I know it will stink, but I'm just hoping it's edible.

I cut up 2 heads of cabbage, 2 red peppers, 3 carrots, 2 granny smith apples, 3 beets, couple knobs of ginger, and 3 radishes. I used the Body Ecology starter. I put it in 90 degree water with some maple syrup for about an hour before adding it to the brine. I made the brine with cut up veggies and water in the blender.

With this crock, you have to check it occasionally to make sure there's water in the seal. There's little divits on the bottom edge of the lid and there are little watery blip noises coming out occasionally, letting me know that something's going on in there. It's doing its thing.

I'm so intrigued about the idea of using this food as my probiotics. The starter indicated that it has Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis ssp. lactis, Lactococcus lactis ssp. cremoris, Lactococcus lactis ssp. lactis biovar. diacetylactis, Leuconostoc mesenteroides ssp. cremoris. Lots of fancy words, huh?

[ProfGumby]

I'm just buying plain Lowfat Dannon yogurt with active cultures.........Is there a better one?..I thought that we could not eat hiney.........honey bad for candida???

I find it's yummy to put stevia in yogurt with some cinnammon or I put in some fresh lemon to make lemony yogurt. .......zip it up a bit.

Thanx for info on cultured veggies. I'm going to look them up at a health store we have here..........it's a very large store, so maybe the price would not be as high as a smaller store and they may have a bigger selection. One thing I WILL NOT eat tho is beets.........blech!!!!!!!!! I'm choking broccoli down sprinkled with lemon juice and doing allright, but I gag on beets!!!!

If I can add to the discussion,

I just bought a 4 cup tub of Plain, Whole Milk Organic Yogurt at the local Health Food Store. It paid about the same as I would have for the same sized tub of Plain Dannon Low Fat Yogurt from the local supermarket. It is a little more expensive, within about a dollar I think.

The stuff is just plain good! I like the Dannon too, but wanted the full fat. :yum: