Hyper-Hypothyroid, Graves, Cushing's, PCOS Oh My!

[Bakerchic]

Ok, I'm a bit of a hypochondriac according to my doctors, but how many of you were considered that way before you got diagnosed? Anyway, I've been told by a gyno that I have PCOS without cysts, and then by another that I don't have PCOS, and that my problems will go away with weightloss. However, my symptoms fall under so many categories. I have abnormal hair growth on my body, like my upper lip, chest and other areas. The BCP has helped, but there are so many negatives and drawbacks to taking this kind of hormonal replacement therapy which it kind of is. Plus the weight is radical, when I first started gaining weight, I gained almost sixty pounds within a couple of months. Well, no crap, I was eating processed carbs, but it was so drastic, because I never had those problems to begin with eating that food. I was one of those human furnaces that converted everything into energy or muscle. If it was just weight, then I could have sucked it up and took it like a champ. But the other stuff is what gets me. I have very dry, white pasty, looking skin, called gothic skin by other's not so kind to my plight. I also bruise very easily and have purple stretch marks if that means anything, even though they faded with weightloss, they still maintain their color. And the hair growth, despite considerable weightloss hasn't ceased and is sprouting other places since going off the BCP. My weight isn't stalling, but around 150 I hit a major plateu. The last time I broke that plateu was a strict regime, a concentration camp menu to say the least where I consumed a half an apple a day. Even with that, it took about a month to get below 150 and reach 143. Obviously, I had trouble with maintenance. As of late, I've been getting frequent Yeast Infections which have not been letting up with OTC treatment. I get hit once atleast every month. The thing is, my blood tests show that my thyroid is normal, and I've had it tested atleast twice. But if it's not the IR, if it's not Hypothyroid or PCOS, what the heck is it? Maybe I am a hypochondriac because these syndromes do freak me out, and when you have a myriad of symptoms that fall under each one, you start thinking you might have them all. I hate the fact that I might not have control over my body. But is there something else going on, and what could it be? Can I control this with diet?

[SidC]

Sounds like something is going on, but the problem is that there are so many different things that could be happening! You can wander in the forest of medical literature trying to figure out what's wrong - and if you want to do that, here's a good site: WrongDiagnosis.com (http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/symptomcenter.htm). What does your doc say? Sounds like he/she is doing a lot of tests, which is good.

Sympathies about the hypochondriac label. I was undiagnosed hypothyroid for five years and close to coma by the time someone finally thought to do a TSH test. I kept complaining about lack of energy, weight gain, loss of mental focus, and they kept saying "ah, you're getting older, these things are all natural." So keep pushing -

[Zuleikaa]

All those symptoms can improve with a good supplement program, vitamin D, calcium, and magnesium.

Food intolerances can also be a factor.

[cs_carver]

Unless you're into recreational activities I probably don't want to know about.

I've been there. Seems like your choices are:

Find another doctor. There are MDs who are into this kind of situation. In Raleigh NC, look in the alternative health freebie newspapers to see who's writing the columns. IMO, general practice internists don't really like these complicated problems. You may have to pay private rates--many of these legitimate but alternative MDs don't handle insurance reimbursement, and you have to file yourself.

Educate yourself about supplementation. There's a lot on here, there's a lot in Dr. A's Vitanutrient Solution, the Life Extension Foundation has info. I have to take 9 grams of C to prevent bruising--1000 mg just don't cut it. I spend a boatload of money on vitamins, and I feel better. Some people say it's a waste, that I pee it all out. I say, "It's a one-rat study and I'm willing to take the chance." I don't think "easy bruising" is OK. YMMV. But it's uncharted waters out here. Zuleikaa has a lot of good links about D. Try it.

Finally, what's with the "moderate LC?" Are you still eating grains? Gluten is a major problem for a lot of us, and carbs are right behind it. Might be time to think about going Xtreme LC. Could be there's some food intolerance going on.

I went through thousands of dollars of testing and evaluations last year, to find out that I had a kind of problem they didn't know what to do about. OK. The best expert in the country can't fix it. And isn't really interested in the problem, because he's full-time busy with other stuff. OK. So I'm on my own. I know what to do medically when the condition flares, but it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to stay AWAY from the triggers OF the flare. Medicine can't do that part--only I can. Diet, exercise, supplements, stress management.

YMMV.

Good luck.

[Aetheana]

i agree with the gluten issue.

so many people are intolerant of gluten and even the littlest bit can foul everything up!

im still doing low carb, but watching gluten like a hawk. sometimes i eat a lot of fruit or sugar (i'll admit it!), but im feeling a ton better without the gluten. but, i dont think im insulin resistant, so thats another thing you might have to consider for you.

try going to a different MD as well. try a homeopathic/traditional one. might have better luck than the traditional. sometimes you have to pay out of pocket for it (my insurance doesnt cover my awesome half and half doc) but it totally is worth it.

i also went undiagnosed hypoT and one visit with the homeopathic had me on thyroid meds and now im doing great. :)

good luck.

[Zuleikaa]

All those symptoms can improve with a good supplement program, vitamin D, calcium, and magnesium.

Food intolerances can also be a factor.

Since your doctor is amenable to ordering tests have him order tests for vitamin D and calcium.

Vitamin D levels can be easily tested. The test is named either 25(OH)D or 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
--Ignore the lab ranges for normal on this test as the norms were established using a vitamin D deficient population.
--Any reading below 60 ng/ml is deficient.
--Any reading of 75-125 ng/ml is optimal.
--Individuals in the tropics naturally have vitamin D levels ranging from the mid 100s-200 ng/ml.

Your calcium test, depending on which test you get, circulating or saliva, can come back high. If your circulating calcium test comes back high that's another sign of vitamin D deficiency as there is not enough vitamin D to administer it.

[Zuleikaa]

I have to take 9 grams of C to prevent bruising--1000 mg just don't cut it. ... I went through thousands of dollars of testing and evaluations last year, to find out that I had a kind of problem they didn't know what to do about. OK. The best expert in the country can't fix it. And isn't really interested in the problem, because he's full-time busy with other stuff. OK. So I'm on my own. I know what to do medically when the condition flares, but it's my responsibility to do whatever I can to stay AWAY from the triggers OF the flare. Medicine can't do that part--only I can. Diet, exercise, supplements, stress management.

YMMV.

Good luck.cs_carver
Have you though of giving a vitamin C flush a shot? It's great at clearing pathogens from the immune system and giving the body a chance to heal and get well.

This phase often results in diarrhea, extreme fatigue, and flu like symptoms.
Phase 1: 2 Weeks
Take every hour from arising until bedtime:
1Ester C, 1000 mg
1 Vitamin C, 1000 mg
1 Oregano oil, 150 mg

Phase 2: 2 weeks
Take every 2 hours from arising until bedtime:
1Ester C, 1000 mg
1 Vitamin C, 1000 mg
1 Oregano oil, 1000 mg

http://www.orthomed.com/faces.htm

The Third Face of Vitamin C
Copyright (C), 1994 and prior years, Dr. Robert F. Cathcart.
Permission granted to distribute via the internet as long
as material is distributed in its entirity and not modified.

J. of Orthomolecular Medicine, 7:4;197-200, 1993.
ABSTRACT
Bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid increases with the toxicity of diseases. Bowel tolerance with a disease such as mononucleosis may reach 200 or more grams per 24 hours without it producing diarrhea. A marked clinical amelioration or cure is achieved in many disease processes when threshold doses near bowel tolerance are given. In a sense, it is the reducing equivalents carried by free radical scavengers that quench free radicals, not the free radical scavengers themselves. Ascorbic acid can be dramatically useful in quenching free radicals because it is usually tolerated in amounts necessary to provide the reducing equivalents necessary to quench almost all the free radicals generated by severe disease processes. Vitamin C functions are incidental at these dose levels; the benefit is from the reducing equivalents carried. To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated. These effects are even more dramatic from intravenous sodium ascorbate.
Keywords: vitamin C, ascorbate, acute induced scurvy, bowel tolerance, titrating to bowel tolerance, the ascorbate effect, free radical scavengers, reducing equivalents.
INTRODUCTION
A clinical experience prescribing doses of ascorbic acid up to 200 or more grams per 24 hours to over 20,000 patients during the past 23 year period has revealed its clinical usefulness in all diseases involving free radicals. The controversy continues over the value of vitamin C mainly because inadequate doses are used for most free radical scavenging purposes. Paradoxically, the non controversial use of minute doses of vitamin C in the prevention and treatment of scurvy has set the minds of many against more creative uses.
I have found vitamin C exceptionally useful in a very high dose range. Its usefulness is in three such distinct realms that I will describe them as the three faces of vitamin C.
1. vitamin C to prevent scurvy
(up to 65 mg/day.)
2. vitamin C to prevent acute induced scurvy (, )
and to augment vitamin C functions
(1 to 20 grams/day.)
3. vitamin C to provide reducing equivalents
(30 to 200 or more grams/day.)()

One might criticize the wisdom of my use of these massive doses but Klenner had successfully utilized them previously (, , , ). The works of Irwin Stone (, , ), Linus Pauling (, , ), and Archie Kalokerinos () have supported many of my observations. It was apparent that in all the studies yielding negative or equivocal results, inadequate doses were used. In some studies, doses barely bordering on adequate, tease the investigator with statistically significant but not very impressive beneficial results.
My early discovery was that the bowel tolerance to ascorbic acid of a person with a healthy GI tract was somewhat proportional to the toxicity of their disease (). Bowel tolerance doses are the amounts of ascorbic acid tolerated orally that almost, but not quite, cause diarrhea. A patient who could tolerate orally 10 to 15 grams of ascorbic acid per 24 hours when well, might be able to tolerate 30 to 60 grams per 24 hours if he had a mild cold, 100 grams with a severe cold, 150 grams with influenza, and 200 grams or more per 24 hours with mononucleosis or viral pneumonia (1, 2). Marked clinical benefits in these conditions occur only at the bowel tolerance or higher levels. I named the process whereby the patient determined the proper dose as titrating to bowel tolerance. These increases in bowel tolerance in the vast majority of patients normally tolerant to ascorbic acid (perhaps 80% of patients) are invariable. The marked clinical benefits are noted only when a threshold dose, usually close to the bowel tolerance dose, is consumed. I call this benefit the ascorbate effect.
Most patients are started at first with hourly doses of ascorbic acid powder dissolved in small amounts of water. Later, after the patient has learned to accurately estimate the dose necessary to achieve the ascorbate effect, comparable doses of tablets or capsules are also used. Where patients are intolerant to adequate amounts of ascorbic acid orally and the severity of the disease warrants it, intravenous sodium ascorbate is used.
Failures are related to individual difficulties in taking the proper adequate doses. I now have had 22 years to gather clinical experience and to reflect on this phenomenon (, , , ).
I want to emphasize the importance of this increasing bowel tolerance with increasing toxicities of diseases. The sensation of detoxification one experiences at these doses is unmistakable.
The effect is so reliable and dramatic in the tolerant patient as to make obvious the fact that something very important, that has not been widely appreciated before, is going on.
THE THREE FACES
Vitamin C probably always functions by being an electron donor. At the lowest dose level (the first face), it is necessary as a vitamin to prevent scurvy. It is essential for certain metabolic functions which are well described and mostly non controversial.
At a second level (the second face) vitamin C is still used as a vitamin but larger doses are necessary to maintain its basic vitamin C functions because the vitamin is destroyed rapidly in diseased or injured tissues where there is an overabundance of free radicals. I described the resulting state of deficiency, if the vitamin C is not replaced, as acute induced scurvy (1, 2). There is ample evidence of this depletion of vitamin C by stress and disease as recently reviewed in the literature ().
Additionally, the recent extensive research on vitamin C has concerned itself with certain functions that may be augmented by higher than minimal doses of vitamin C (20). Strangely, any usefulness of these larger than minimal doses of vitamin C remain mostly neglected by clinicians. This level is from about 1 to 20 grams a day. Benefits vary from person to person.
At this second level, as in studies reviewed by Pauling (11) and more recently by Hemil„ (20), there may be expected a slight decrease in the incidence of colds but a more significant reduction in the complications and the duration of colds. Personally, I am impressed by the number of patients (but certainly not all) who tell me that they have not had a cold for years since reading Pauling's book and taking vitamin C. Patients with chronic infections frequently have those infections cured for the first time. Antibiotics work synergistically with these doses. A surprising number of elderly persons benefit from doses of this magnitude and may indeed have what Irwin Stone described as chronic subclinical scurvy (10).
The third level of doses (the third face) is virtually undiscussed in the literature but is the most interesting. These doses range usually from 30 to 200 grams or more per 24 hours. The most important concept to understand is that while incidentally at these dose levels the vitamin C performs all the functions of levels one and two, it is mostly thrown away for the reducing equivalents it carries (3). With these doses it is possible to saturate the body with reducing equivalents, neutralize the excessive free radicals, and drive a reducing redox potential into involved tissues. Inflammations mediated by free radicals can be eliminated or markedly reduced. In many instances patients with allergies or autoimmune disease have their humeral immunity controlled while their cellular immunity is augmented (19). To the extent that free radicals are either essential to the perpetuation of a disease or just part of the cause of symptoms, the disease will be cured or just ameliorated.
The list of diseases involving free radicals continue to grow. Infections, cardiovascular diseases, cancer, trauma, burns both thermal and radiation, surgeries, allergies, autoimmune diseases and aging are now included. It is more difficult to think of a disease that does not involve free radicals. Progressive nutritionists routinely give vitamin C, vitamin E, beta carotene, selenium, NAC, etc. to counter free radicals. I certainly agree with this practice. However, there is one important concept neglected.
In the spirit that if you throw a bucket of water on a fire, it is the water that puts the fire out, not the bucket; it is the reducing equivalents carried by the free radical scavengers that quench the free radicals, not the free radical scavenger itself.
Most of the reducing equivalents utilized by non enzymatic free radical scavengers do not come from the ingested free radical scavengers but come through glycolysis, the citric acid cycle, NADPH, FADH2, glutathione, etc. Dietary free radical scavengers carry in on ingestion only a small percentage of the total reducing equivalents carried by those scavengers during their lifetime in the body. After their first pass neutralizing free radicals, the free radical scavenger must be recharged with reducing equivalents made available in the mitochondria.
Consider the following: Early in this study a 23-year-old, 98-pound librarian with severe mononucleosis claimed to have taken 2 heaping tablespoons every 2 hours, consuming a full pound of ascorbic acid in 2 days without it producing diarrhea. She felt mostly well in 3 to 4 days, although she had to continue about 20 to 30 grams a day for about 2 months. Subsequently, all my young mononucleosis patients with excellent GI tracts have responded similarly and have had equivalent increases in bowel tolerance during the acute stage of the disease.
I believe that the loose stools caused by excessive doses of ascorbic acid orally ingested is due to a resulting hypertonicity of ascorbate in the rectum. Water is attracted into the rectum by the increased osmotic pressure and results in a benign diarrhea. With toxic illnesses, the ascorbate is destroyed rapidly in the involved tissues resulting in a rapid absorption from the gut. Of the ascorbate, what does not reach the rectum, does not cause diarrhea. Intravenous sodium ascorbate does not cause diarrhea and, in fact, increases bowel tolerance to orally ingested ascorbic acid while the IV is running. With hypertonicity of the ascorbate both in the blood and in the rectum, the osmotic pressure of the ascorbate is more equal on both sides of the bowel wall so no diarrhea results. If the diarrhea was cause by other metabolic processes, diarrhea would be caused by intravenous ascorbate.
It should be noted that in some cases of pathological diarrhea, ascorbic acid stops the diarrhea. Presumably in these cases some of the increased destruction of ascorbate is from free radicals in the bowel. However, in most toxic systemic diseases there is no reason to believe that the destruction of the additional ascorbate occurs directly in the bowel, so it is a safe hypothesize that this increased destruction occurs in the interior of the body.
The increased tolerance to ascorbic acid orally provides an interesting and somewhat useful measure of the toxicity of a disease. Probably it is somewhat a measure of the free radicals involved in a disease. I describe a cold that at its maximum makes it possible for a patient to just tolerate 100 grams of ascorbic acid orally without diarrhea, a "100 gram cold." Patients, appearing to be well, who have a tolerance over 20 to 25 grams per 24 hours probably have some subclinical condition which is being hidden by their own free radical scavenging system.
Patients with chronic infections (and a normally strong stomach) can ingest enormous amounts of ascorbic acid. One of my chronic fatigue patients is functional only because of his ingestion of 65 pounds of ascorbic acid in the past 12 months. In 22 years, I, personally, have ingested approximately 361 kilos ( 797 lbs ) ( 4.3 times my body weight ) of ascorbic acid because of chronic allergies and perhaps chronic EBV.
Considering the reducing equivalents carried by such amounts of ascorbic acid, one can only guess at the turnover rate of the non enzymatic free radical scavengers in a patient acutely ill with a 200 gram mononucleosis. However, one gains the impression that all the non enzymatic free radical scavengers would have to be rereduced many times a day.
AN ANALOGY
Suppose you owned a farm and on one end of the property there was a barn and on the other end of the property there was a water well. One day the barn catches fire and neighbors come with buckets to set up a bucket brigade between the water well and the barn and are putting out the fire when the well goes dry.
My use of ascorbate is like thousands of neighbors coming from miles around, each with a bucketful of their own water, throwing their own water on your fire once, and then leaving.
CONCLUSION
Because of the invariable (in patients tolerant to ascorbic acid) increasing bowel tolerance to ascorbic acid in patients roughly in proportion to the toxicity of their disease, there has to be something happening to ascorbate in the sick patient other than its being used as vitamin C in the classic sense. The amelioration or sometimes cure of different diseases appears related to the importance of free radicals in the perpetuation of the paticular disease.
The sudden marked benefit in many disease processes which is achieved at doses near to the bowel tolerance level suggests that a reducing redox potential is forced into the affected tissues only at those dose levels. This ascorbate effect only at the high dose levels is also suggestive that something other than classic functions of vitamin C is involved. This ascorbate effect is more compatible with principles of redox chemistry.
Only a small percentage of the total reducing equivalents donated by non enzymatic free radical scavengers to neutralize free radicals, come in on the ingested nutritional free radical scavengers. Ascorbate is unique in that the body can tolerate doses adequate to supply the necessary reducing equivalents to quench the free radicals generated by severely toxic disease processes. The vitamin C is thrown away for the reducing equivalents it carries. Only in this way can the large amounts of free radicals generated by the most toxic disease processes be rapidly quenched.

REFERENCES

Dr. Cathcart Bibliography

1. Cathcart RF. The method of determining proper doses of
vitaminC for the treatment of disease by titrating to bowel
tolerance. J Orthomolecular Psychiatry 1981; 10: 125-32.


2. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C: titrating to bowel tolerance,
anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy.
Medical Hypotheses 1981; 7:1359-76.


3. Cathcart RF. A unique function for ascorbate.
Medical Hypotheses 1991; 35: 32-7.

4. Klenner FR. Virus pneumonia and its treatment with vitamin C.
J. South. Med. and Surg. 1948; 110: 60-3.

5. Klenner FR. The treatment of poliomyelitis and other virus
diseases with vitamin C.
J. South. Med. and Surg. 1949; 111:210-4.

6. Klenner FR. Observations on the dose and administration of
ascorbic acid when employed beyond the range of a vitamin in
human pathology. J. App. Nutr. 1971; 23: 61-88.

7. Klenner FR. Significance of high daily intake of ascorbic
acid in preventive medicine.
J. Int. Acad. Prev. Med. 1974; 1:45-9.

8. Stone I. Studies of a mammalian enzyme system for producing
evolutionary evidence on man.
Am. J. Phys. Anthro. 1965; 23:83-6.

9. Stone I. Hypoascorbemia: The genetic disease causing the human
requirement for exogenous ascorbic acid.
Perspectives in Biology and Medicine 1966; 10: 133-4.

10. Stone I. The Healing Factor: Vitamin C Against Disease.
Grosset and Dunlapp, New York, 1972.

11. Pauling L. Vitamin C and the Common Cold.
W.H. Freeman and Company, San Francisco, 1970.

12. Pauling L. Vitamin C, the Common Cold, and the Flu.
W.H.Freeman and Company, San Francisco, 1976.

13. Pauling L. How to Live Longer and Feel Better.
W.H. Freeman and Company, New York, 1986.

14. Kalokerinos A. Every Second Child.
Keats Publishing, Inc., New Canaan, 1981.

15. Cathcart RF. Clinical trial of vitamin C. Letter to the
Editor, Medical Tribune, June 25, 1975.


16. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C in the treatment of acquired
immunedeficiency syndrome (AIDS).
Medical Hypotheses 1984; 14(4): 423-33.


17. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C: the nontoxic, nonrate-limited,
antioxidant free radical scavenger.
Medical Hypotheses 1985; 18:61-77.


18. Cathcart RF. HIV infection and glutathione (Letter to editor
concerning Vitamin C tolerance in AIDS).
Lancet 1990; 335(8683);235.


19. Cathcart RF. The vitamin C treatment of allergy and the
normally unprimed state of antibodies.
Medical Hypotheses 1986;21(3): 307-21.

20. Hemil H. Vitamin C and the common cold.
Br J Nutr 1992; 67:3-16.

Content (C) 1995 and prior years, Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
Robert F. Cathcart, M.D.
650-949-2822

[Bakerchic]

Thanks so much everyone for the advice. And Atheana, I believe gluten intolerance is a major factor after reading the threads on gluten intolerance, I think though I was getting it from dressings and sauces even though I cut back on wheat. And yes, the GI problems are incredible, but I thought it was due to my bulimia which some of it is, but I had these problems a long time back to when I wasn't. Food intolerances are nothing new to me either, but because I was bulimic, I was told to eat everything in moderation and not limit myself. I think that's why current recovery fails, excuse me, it's not all psychological and I've been reading about how ED's can be caused by food intolerances! Go figure. I think I want to experiment with food allergies, I know I'm allergic to wheat no doubt, but I wonder if my current problem is dairy, so maybe I will try a test with that.

Thanks Zuleika for the vitamin suggestions, I used to take magnesium, relatively high dosages back in my fruitarian day, and I don't recall bruising being so much of a problem when it should have been considering my macronutrients. Also, I used to take megadoses for depression, which seemed to help. But then I just thought it was wishful thinking and quit, but maybe that's what I need.

SidC, thanks for the website, I'll have a look.

CS_Carver, I'm moderately active, probably more than most, but the bruising is weird, especially since one can take up to weeks to recover. As for the moderate carb, it's meant to imply that I eat more than induction allowed carbs. It is still kind of Atkins. But maybe I should refocus to food allergies as opposed to physique.

Thanks everyone, I think it is a gluten issue also since I'm still eating commercial dressings and eating out occasionally.

[Nancy LC]

A food intolerance can cause malaborption of vitamins, which might account for the bruising. I'm trying to figure out if my bruising is better now. I used to bruises all the time. You should have seen me after a typical night in my martial arts class, I looked like a poster child from spousal abuse or something. I'd have bruises I had no idea how I got.

But then again... there are also some autoimmune diseases that can cause bruising too.

But I'd work the food intolerance angle first, because you don't really need anyone else to do that. I think the Paleo diet is really good because it removes nearly all common foods people are intolerant of.

If it isn't that, might be autoimmune disease. I've had Graves (hyper-thyroid) and now it looks like I might have Lupus and/or Sjogren's as well. :p

[Bakerchic]

Wow Nancy, I suppose compared to you, I might be in the early, or mild category. I want to aim at prevention then. Plus, hypo-thyroid runs in my family, not my immediate family, but my Aunts have suffered from it. My parents don't have it though, and my mom is deffinitely IR. However, I have gynoid fat distribution, do you think that it means I could have a gluten sensitivity vs. hypo, does it make a difference at all? Plus, my mother was anemic, just throwing that out there because anemics bruise easily to, and I have a very pasty complexion. Also, what supplements would be better absorbed?

[Zuleikaa]

JMO

I think a vitamin C flush is the first order of business for all of these disorders. A vitamin C flush rids your body of toxins, free radicals, pathogens, and wastes. Just have plenty of air freshener because your BMs will smell really foul!!! A vitamin C flush cleans your body out cells, organs, lymphatic system and all and allows the body to heal and rejuvenate.

Then a good supplement program supports the body and body systems for continued healing, balance, and good health.

I recommend it as a starting point for anyone with exhausted, infectious, viral, or immune disorders.

[Bakerchic]

JMO

I think a vitamin C flush is the first order of business for all of these disorders. A vitamin C flush rids your body of toxins, free radicals, pathogens, and wastes. Just have plenty of air freshener because your BMs will smell really foul!!! A vitamin C flush cleans your body out cells, organs, lymphatic system and all and allows the body to heal and rejuvenate.

Then a good supplement program supports the body and body systems for continued healing, balance, and good health.

I recommend it as a starting point for anyone with exhausted, infectious, viral, or immune disorders.

Wow Zuleikaa, your take on Vitamin C got me reading, I'll bold or capitalize the parts that pertain to me.

Lesser, Michael M.D Nutrition And Vitamin Therapy. June 1981

Present in very high concentrations in the adrenal glands, the antis tress glands, vitamin C is an important antis tress factor, whatever the source of stress---extreme weather, surgery, final exams, or watching the television news.
Spongy, puffy gums which bleed easily, encouraging pyorrhea, signify a possible deficiency. Vitamin C also helps maintain normal vision; cataracts have been produced experimentally by restricting C intake.
Since Vitamin C is needed to build new blood cells, anemia can signify a deficiency. Also, vitamin C enhances iron absorption, thereby helping prevent iron deficiency, the most common cause of anemia.

In other pages of the book, it notes how vitamin C and niacin therapy can absolve manic depression, and make schizophrenia go into remission when treatment is continued. One schizophrenic actually went off the vitamin C and niacin therapy to trip on LSD because he couldn’t when taking the therapy.

In light of that, I definitely want to try a Vitamin C flush along with a gluten free diet. And I want to start supplementing with Magnesium again, since minerals and vitamins work synergistically with each other. Also on pg. 81 in the book, it recommends taking magnesium along with Vitamin C to prevent calcium oxolate kidney stones which can be problematic for women taking megadoses of Vitamin C, but magnesium removes the risk.

[Bakerchic]

I think Vitamin C being present in the adrenal glands is of utmost importance. Anorexics and Bulimics who use food escape to cope with stress, often develope hypo-T, probably due to stress raising cortisol levels and other factors I am probably ignorant about, and with the mind and body both being under stress, no wonder the thyroid gland is acting insufficiently.

[Zuleikaa]

And never take magnesium without vitamin D and calcium.

Those symptoms you bolded are also signs of deficiency in those nutrients as well.

[Nancy LC]

Wow Nancy, I suppose compared to you, I might be in the early, or mild category. I want to aim at prevention then. Plus, hypo-thyroid runs in my family, not my immediate family, but my Aunts have suffered from it. My parents don't have it though, and my mom is deffinitely IR. However, I have gynoid fat distribution, do you think that it means I could have a gluten sensitivity vs. hypo, does it make a difference at all? Plus, my mother was anemic, just throwing that out there because anemics bruise easily to, and I have a very pasty complexion. Also, what supplements would be better absorbed?

No, your fat distribution doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Anemia can also be caused by food intolerances. In fact, it's a pretty major cause of it. If you're gut is devasted by food intolerances then it isn't going to absorb much of anything from supplements either.

[Bakerchic]

So to get the optimal effect, I would have to follow a gluten-free diet and a supplement program. Also in the book, he recommended a low-carb, high-protein/fat diet along with vitamin therapy. Or should I follow the gluten-free diet and then start supplementing, and how long should I follow it before I start supplementing.

And thanks Zuilekaa for warning me about the Vitamin D and Calcium combo. If I were to follow the Vitamin C flush, should I nix my daily multi-vitamin?

[cs_carver]

I'm prone to anterior uveitis. The second time you get it, they start testing for the big auto-immune syndromes, and I failed them all, and I've had three bouts of the uveitis. All three times followed severe intestinal upset--twice flu, once antibiotics (plus a broken nose).

The doctors are interested in the chronic conditions, and I'm grateful that's not my situation. I know what happens, I know where to go (and to head straight for ophthalmology, not the family practice guys), and the drugs work.

The trick for me is to avoid severe intestinal upset and major antibiotics, mostly. And broken noses.

And in the meantime, I chug back the C.

[Zuleikaa]

So to get the optimal effect, I would have to follow a gluten-free diet and a supplement program. Also in the book, he recommended a low-carb, high-protein/fat diet along with vitamin therapy. Or should I follow the gluten-free diet and then start supplementing, and how long should I follow it before I start supplementing.

And thanks Zuilekaa for warning me about the Vitamin D and Calcium combo. If I were to follow the Vitamin C flush, should I nix my daily multi-vitamin?With the vitamin C regimin you should take one pill of a good quality multivitamin with minerals (that require a 2 pill per dose) three times a day.

This is the program I suggested for someone with Lupus. You could follow the same program.

Lupus
Program and Supplements

This is a detoxification, healing, optimum nutrient program to reverse the causes and symptoms of Lupus and restore body balance.

Cook with and consume only these fats: butter, lard, beef fat, coconut oil, olive oil, or nut oils.

Supplement Shopping List
Multivitamin with minerals, high potency
Dandelion, 515 mg
Milk Thistle, 500 mg
Multi Omega oils comprised of 400 mg Borage oil, 400 mg Fish oil, and 400 mg Flax oil per soft gel
Ester C with bioflavonoids, 1000 mg
Vitamin C with Rose Hips, 1000 mg
Oregano oil, 150 mg
Vitamin D, 1000 IU
Calcium/Magnesium, liquid 300/150 mg per soft gel
Magnesium Complex, 400 mg


Phase 1: 2 Weeks
This phase often results in diarrhea, extreme fatigue, and flu like symptoms.
Take upon arising and before bed:
1 Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take every hour, an hour after arising and an hour before bed:
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take three times a day with meals:
1 Multivitamin with minerals
1 Dandelion
1 Milk Thistle
2 Multi Omega oils


Phase 2: 2 weeks
You should be feeling better. If the addition of vitamin D results in a Lupus outbreak or symptoms, continue with Phase 1 for an additional 1-2 weeks.
Take upon arising and before bed:
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take every 2 hours, an hour after arising and an hour before bed:
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take three times a day with meals:
1 Multivitamin with minerals
1 Dandelion
1 Milk Thistle
2 Multi Omega oils

Take at breakfast and lunch in addition to those listed above:
1 Vitamin D
2 Calcium/Magnesium


Phase 3: 2 weeks:
Take upon arising and before bed:
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take three times a day with meals:
1 Multivitamin with minerals
1 Dandelion
1 Milk Thistle
2 Multi Omega oils
1 Vitamin D
2 Calcium/Magnesium
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take at breakfast in addition to those listed above:
1 Magnesium


Phase 4: Maintenance
Take three times a day with meals:
1 Multivitamin with minerals
2 Multi Omega oils
1 Vitamin D
2 Calcium/Magnesium
1Ester C
1 Vitamin C
1 Oregano oil

Take at breakfast in addition to those listed above:
1 Magnesium

I know it seems long but I had to break it down simply. At Phase 3 you can slowly start to add in whatever additional supplements you want.

You can take it or leave it, I just thought it might be of interest to you.

[Zuleikaa]

With Lupus it's very important that you don't add more vitamin D than is in the multivitamin because those with Lupus can have a flareup unless his/her body has been through Phase 1 detox.

[Gailew]

Wow, you guys, I never thought about it until I read this thread, but I used to be the bruise queen around here--always had bruises and couldn't even remember how I got them. Lately I haven't given it a thought. I haven't noticed a bruise in quite a while to remind myself! So another clue to the puzzle with gluten intolerance being the finished picture.
I know I had some gluten 3 days ago, and can track the symptoms: right away: rapid pulse. Next day: head ache & fatigue. Next day: joint pain & fatigue.
Did someone say Chocolate has gluten in it? Does that include Hershey's unsweetened baking chocolate? Ingredients listed: chocolate and cocoa.
Please say it isn't so! ~Gail

[Bakerchic]

Hershey's lists it's allergies, and on a milk chocolate candy bar all I saw were that it may contain milk and trace amounts of nuts. It did not list gluten. I would like to think Hershey would list gluten, I mean the FDA has come out with that new ruling about listing allergies, so I'd imagine they'd have made note of the fact. I don't know though, it's in the back of my mind now.

[Nancy LC]

Yeah, the rules are it must list all ingredients. However, it could be made in a factory where other things have gluten and could have cross-contamination, and that wouldn't be listed. But you have that issue with anything that is processed.

There definitely is something in chocolate that I'm having issues with. Even chocolate with no wheat or dairy in it. Either that, or there is cross contamination.

[Bakerchic]

Yeah, the rules are it must list all ingredients. However, it could be made in a factory where other things have gluten and could have cross-contamination, and that wouldn't be listed. But you have that issue with anything that is processed.

There definitely is something in chocolate that I'm having issues with. Even chocolate with no wheat or dairy in it. Either that, or there is cross contamination.

Must be cross contamination, they do make cookies and other stuff to. Now I'm paranoid, lol! I noticed I've been having a trouble with chocolate lately, and put it in the list of food addictions. But it will be the first processed food I reintroduce when I get to maintenance, as a treat of course. Hey Nancy, do you have sensitivities to dairy because of gluten intolerance. I'm debating whether or not I do. I don't really have a problem with dairy except it tends to slow me down, but I'm wondering if that's because I'm not used to be satiated, or I am genuinely having a problem with it. I feel better on a paleo type plan, so I think that's what I'm going to go with for now maybe. Or I guess I should say, an Atkins type plan with little dairy.

[Nancy LC]

Diary, or casein, intolerance is its own thing. I don't know if one intolerance can lead to another or what, but basically they both are probably equally bad as far as damage to the body is concerned. I don't think casein intolerance has been studied as much however.

For me, my intolerances cause GI issues, brain-fog, stomach ache.

For dairy, you can eat a lot of calories without being aware of it. That might explain your slow-down.