Fish vs flax

[cs_carver]

The background: Hate fish, took flax seed oil for a couple of years. Doctor said flax wasn't well-absorbed, switched to high-grade fish oil last February. Ok all summer. Winter came, skin started cracking--that was always the sign to increase flax seed oil intake, so I added that back. 9 capsules, and the cracking stopped.

Decided that I must not be absorbing the fish oil (or it would have prevented the cracking), and stopped taking it. The good stuff's expensive and the cheap stuff makes me burp. Noticed major emotional irritation this week--and now it occurs to me it might be the lack of the fish oil.

Any experience with this?

I also take one borage oil cap, for depression, and have not changed that all year.

[kebaldwin]

This is only my opinion (I have not heard any one else say this) but IMHO

men should probably stick with fish oil whereas women might do better combining fish, flax, borrage, etc.

http://www.vitacost.com/store/products/ProductSearch.cfm?SearchText=fish+oil&SearchBy=HL&ss=1

http://www.vitacost.com/store/products/ProductSearch.cfm?SearchText=flax+oil&SearchBy=HL&ss=1

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,781,00.html

http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/substances_view/1,1525,783,00.html

[Dodger]

The fish oil have long-chain omega-3s, while the flax has shorter chain onega-3s. It is good to take both as they are both used by the body.

I don't take flax, but I eat lots of walnuts and get the short-chain omega -3s from them. I supplement with fish oil as I seldom eat fish.

[NYNikki]

Doctor said flax wasn't well-absorbed, switched to high-grade fish oil last February.

Decided that I must not be absorbing the fish oil (or it would have prevented the cracking), and stopped taking it.

You may not be Diabetic but I read an article that says Diabetic's can not absorbe fish oils. Maybe somehow the same reason is for you.

I have tried every type of Flax/Fish oil pill & liquid and was uncomforatble with how it made me feel. Funny, thing is I love to munch on whole Flax seeds and don't have a reaction either way. But also its said that you should eat Flax seeds milled to get the Omega 3 benefits. I guess I get no benefits from eating them except enjoyment. :yum:

This information may not help you but it maybe interesting to know.

Nikki

[neo_crone]

You may not be Diabetic but I read an article that says Diabetic's can not absorbe fish oils. Nikki

Wow! Never heard that one before. Do you know where you picked that up from? Gotta link? I'd like to read it. I'm diabetic and fish oil caps give me diarrhoea.

neo_crone

[NYNikki]

Sorry Neo - since finding out I am Diabetic 6 months ago- I have read every book, website and whatever else about being Diabetic and don't remember where I read it.

I do know for a fact it is true in my case.

Be Well,
Nikki

[Zuleikaa]

IMO, Diabetics should take fish oils. Fish oils contain vitamin D which is proven to help diabetics.

My recommendations for diabetics vitamin D (of course taken with calcium and magnesium), gymnema sylvestre, GTF Chromium, and cinnamon. This combination has brought BGLs under control and within normal ranges.

Twice a day
2-7 Vitamin D, 1,000 IU (more in winter or if you have vitamin D deficiency related problems
2-3 Calcium with magnesium combo, 300-600 mg calcium and 150-300 mg magnesium per pill
1-2 GTF chromium, 200 mcg depending on weight, up to 3 per day <=250 lbs., up to 4 per day >250 lbs.
1 gymnema sylvestre, 400 mg
2 cinnamon, 375 mg

[Zuleikaa]

It seems fish oil doesn’t help diabetes but it does reduce tryglicerides. You'll notice the first and last studies were on men.

Effect of fructose overfeeding and fish oil administration on hepatic de novo lipogenesis and insulin sensitivity in healthy men.
Faeh D, Minehira K, Schwarz JM, Periasami R, Seongsu P, Tappy L.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15983189&query_hl=19&itool=pubmed_docsum
Department of Physiology, University of Lausanne, Lausanne, Switzerland.

High-fructose diet stimulates hepatic de novo lipogenesis (DNL) and causes hypertriglyceridemia and insulin resistance in rodents. Fructose-induced insulin resistance may be secondary to alterations of lipid metabolism. In contrast, fish oil supplementation decreases triglycerides and may improve insulin resistance. Therefore, we studied the effect of high-fructose diet and fish oil on DNL and VLDL triglycerides and their impact on insulin resistance. Seven normal men were studied on four occasions: after fish oil (7.2 g/day) for 28 days; a 6-day high-fructose diet (corresponding to an extra 25% of total calories); fish oil plus high-fructose diet; and control conditions. Following each condition, fasting fractional DNL and endogenous glucose production (EGP) were evaluated using [1-13C]sodium acetate and 6,6-2H2 glucose and a two-step hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp was performed to assess insulin sensitivity. High-fructose diet significantly increased fasting glycemia (7 +/- 2%), triglycerides (79 +/- 22%), fractional DNL (sixfold), and EGP (14 +/- 3%, all P < 0.05). It also impaired insulin-induced suppression of adipose tissue lipolysis and EGP (P < 0.05) but had no effect on whole- body insulin-mediated glucose disposal. Fish oil significantly decreased triglycerides (37%, P < 0.05) after high-fructose diet compared with high-fructose diet without fish oil and tended to reduce DNL but had no other significant effect. In conclusion, high-fructose diet induced dyslipidemia and hepatic and adipose tissue insulin resistance. Fish oil reversed dyslipidemia but not insulin resistance.


N-3 long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids: a nutritional tool to prevent insulin resistance associated to type 2 diabetes and obesity?
Delarue J, LeFoll C, Corporeau C, Lucas D.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15460168&query_hl=19&itool=pubmed_docsum
EA-948 Oxylipides, Faculte de Medecine, 29200 Brest, France. jacques.delarue~univ-brest.fr

n-3 long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (n-3 LC-PUFA), mainly eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA, 20:5 n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6 n-3), are present in mammal tissues both from endogenous synthesis from desaturation and elongation of 18:3 n-3 and/or from dietary origin (marine products and fish oils). In rodents in vivo, n-3 LC-PUFA have a protective effect against high fat diet induced insulin resistance. Such an effect is explained at the molecular level by the prevention of many alterations of insulin signaling induced by a high fat diet. Indeed, the protective effect of n-3 LC-PUFA results from the following: (a) the prevention of the decrease of phosphatidyl inositol 3' kinase (PI3 kinase) activity and of the depletion of the glucose transporter protein GLUT4 in the muscle; (b) the prevention of the decreased expression of GLUT4 in adipose tissue. In addition, n-3 LC-PUFA inhibit both the activity and expression of liver glucose-6-phosphatase which could explain the protective effect with respect to the excessive hepatic glucose output induced by a high fat diet. n-3 LC-PUFA also decrease muscle intramyofibrillar triglycerides and liver steatosis. This last effect results on the one hand, from a decreased expression of lipogenesis enzymes and of delta 9 desaturase (via a depleting effect on sterol response element binding protein 1c (SREBP-1c). On the other hand, n-3 LC-PUFA stimulate fatty acid oxidation in the liver (via the activation of peroxisome proliferator activated receptor alpha (PPAR-alpha)). In patients with type 2 diabetes, fish oil dietary supplementation fails to reverse insulin resistance for unclear reasons, but systematically decreases plasma triglycerides. Conversely, in healthy humans, fish oil has many physiological effects. Indeed, fish oil reduces insulin response to oral glucose without altering the glycaemic response, abolishes extraggression at times of mental stress, decreases the activation of sympathetic activity during mental stress and also decreases plasma triglycerides. These effects are encouraging in the perspective of prevention of insulin resistance but further clinical and basic studies must be designed to confirm and complete our knowledge in this field.


Moderate intake of n-3 fatty acids for 2 months has no detrimental effect on glucose metabolism and could ameliorate the lipid profile in type 2 diabetic men. Results of a controlled study.

Luo J, Rizkalla SW, Vidal H, Oppert JM, Colas C, Boussairi A, Guerre-Millo M, Chapuis AS, Chevalier A, Durand G, Slama G.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9589230&query_hl=22&itool=pubmed_docsum
Department of Diabetes, INSERM U341, Hotel-Dieu, Paris, France.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of a moderate dose of fish oil on glycemic control and in vivo insulin action in type 2 diabetic men with elevated plasma triacylglycerols and to determine the effect of the same treatment on gene expression of GLUT4, lipoprotein lipase (LPL), and hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) in the abdominal adipose tissue. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: A total of 12 type 2 diabetic men were randomly allocated to 2 months of 6 g daily of either fish oil or sunflower oil, separated by a 2-month washout interval, in a double-blind crossover design. RESULTS: For glucose metabolism, 2 months of fish oil supplementation compared with sunflower oil led to similar fasting plasma insulin, glucose, and HbA1c. Basal hepatic glucose production did not increase after fish oil. There was no difference in insulin suppression of hepatic glucose production nor in insulin stimulation of whole-body glucose disposal measured by the euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamp. Fish oil did not ameliorate the low mRNA level of GLUT4 in adipose tissue of these patients. For lipid profile, fish oil lowered plasma triacylglycerol more than sunflower oil (P < 0.05) and tended to increase the amount of mRNA of both LPL and HSL in adipose tissue. CONCLUSIONS: A moderate dose of fish oil did not lead to deleterious effects on glycemic control or whole-body insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetic men, with preserved triacylglycerol-lowering capacities.

[kebaldwin]

I don't see fish oil helping with diabetes / blood sugar directly.

But indirectly -- it is huge.

Chromium is probably the best at controlling blood sugar directly. I was taking 800 mcg per day when I weighed 300 to 250 pounds. Started getting light headed so I cut back to 600 mcg per day (I now weigh 250 pounds).

So I would adjust the amount you weigh by (1) how heavy you are and (2) how bad your blood sugar problems are

[Whoa182]

In males using flax oil the conversion to EPA is low and the conversion to DHA is 0. Women seem to get both DHA and EPA from flax oil.

I believe that fish oil is much better.

[Nancy LC]

About the fishy burps, I wonder if it depends on the oil. I get 1 or two burps after I take it but that's it. After that it doesn't happen. I'm using the Fish oil capsules from Trader Joe's. It's molecularly distilled to get the mecury out and costs $7.95 for 90 capsules. Its got twice as much DHA and ELP (?) as another brand I saw. I chewed a capsule once and it didn't taste rancid.

[Dodger]

If I take the fish oil with a meal, I don't get any burbs. When I buy the enteric coated ones, I don't burp no matter when I take them.

[cs_carver]

About the fishy burps, I wonder if it depends on the oil.

Very definitely a brand-specific phenomenon. Also, one's tolerance for the effect is directly related to one's tolerance for fish in the first place. Can't abide anything but canned tuna, which is almost not fish. Fishy burps are simply not acceptable.

What's invisible and smells like goldfish?

Cat farts.

[nedgoudy]

Fish Oil. No fishy burps!
Nature Made Brand, 1200 mg.
180 Count, cost: ~$15.00
I take two a day

[Dodger]

Ned,

What is the omega-3 content to the Nature Made fish oil?

[nedgoudy]

Ned,

What is the omega-3 content to the Nature Made fish oil?

Omega 3 (EPA) 432 mg.
Omega 3 (DHA) 288 mg.

That is all I know. I started taking
them yesterday to boost my HDL
a bit although I am at 38 and 39
is recommended for adults, but
my LDL is only 61, so the ratio
of good to bad is very acceptable.

Still, I'd like to boost the HDL.

[AmyJP]

wondering about the benefits of actual flax seed versus just the oil. and how much seed daily? :)

[LOOPS]

I take high EPA fish oil, because it is the EPA not DHA which is better for people with depression/anxiety/bipolar. High DHA pills made me more depressed. High EPA balanced with GLA seems the way to go for balancing eicosanoids.