So what do you think?

[zajack]

Just out of curiousity...how many Atkiners out there believe in being stringent with measuring lettuce during extended induction or OWL? I ask because... I gotta tell ya...I just am not. I watch what I put on a salad...but I'll openly admit that I frequently (like daily) consume more than 2 or 3 cups of lettuce. I sometimes have salad at bfast, lunch, and dinner! Anyone else the same?... and why do you think the allowed measurements(2-3 cups) are what they are?

I placed this in the war-zone so that newbies wouldnt get all wrapped up in it... it's better to stick to basics when starting out I think. (Also just in case someone decides I need a slam or two because 6 or 7 cups of lettuce and a cup of broccoli per day isnt following the plan to the letter. :lol: )

[JudyAnn]

OK, I admit that I don't measure lettuce either. A cup of romaine lettuce has about 1.5 carbs, minus fiber about .5 so I guess if you eat too much you can go over your carb limit for the day. But you'd have to eat ahellofa lot of it. ;) I just eyeball about how much I think is a cup...about a handfull of chopped lettuce is what I go by. But I don't worry too much about overdoing it with lettuce :lol: even on induction where I am right now :)

[locarbbarb]

zajack,

You have done so well! 59 pounds! Congratulations! Obviously your lettuce consumption has not hurt you! ;)

I personally have never measured lettuce. I think it is probably the lowest calorie and carb food one could find! (Please don't yell at me if you know something lower - like maybe water or something! :lol: ) I even heard once that it takes more calories to 'burn off' lettuce, than lettuce contains!

What I really want to say is that the lettuce guidelines are probably to have at least that much - because most people who are in the non-low carb mode are not eating salads! (You know what they are eating!)

So, I personally believe all of the 'diet rules' are really guidelines. In my opinion, the more veggies, the better. I don't limit my brocolli or cauliflower, etc. either. This is a plan I have to live with, and I don't see myself measuring vegetables for the rest of my life.

[Lisa N]

why do you think the allowed measurements(2-3 cups) are what they are?

It's not always the amount of carbs that influence the insulin/blood sugar response, sometimes it's the volume of food as well. ;)
Along those lines, Dr. Bernstein relates a story in his book of a women he saw in his practice that could not figure out why her blood sugars were going up to 300+ after her afternoon workout. Turns out she was consuming an entire head of lettuce prior to her workout and the distension of her stomach and intestines was provoking an insulin response and corresponding glucose dump from her liver resulting in high blood sugars.
Now...in a non-diabetic, it probably wouldn't have such a dramatic effect but given that a lot of low carbers are insulin resistant and have high levels of circulating insulin, avoiding the insulin response may be what is behind the restriction on bulky veggies like lettuce. ;)
Another thing about the veggie restriction; that assumes that you will be getting carbs from other allowed sources during induction such as cheese, cream, lemon juice, olives and avocados. If you're not eating those other things, I don't see a reason to not add additional veggies to get to the 20 gram limit each day. I don't think I ever met anyone who got overweight eating too much broccoli. ;)
That said...I don't measure my lettuce and usually just 'eyeball' my veggies, too. :)

[kevinpa]

ok, I know you put this out there for atkiners but as a LC'er I will add my 2 cents for consideration.

When eating salads Romaine is a freebee, along with a few others.There are the same amount of carb grams as there are fiber grams thus resulting in zero net carb grams.

I ate as much and as many Romaine salads as it took to fill me up when I was hungry for snacks and still lost 20 lb per month.

On maintenence I still eat at least 1 large salad a day.

[locarbbarb]

It's not always the amount of carbs that influence the insulin/blood sugar response, sometimes it's the volume of food as well.
Along those lines, Dr. Bernstein relates a story in his book of a women he saw in his practice that could not figure out why her blood sugars were going up to 300+ after her afternoon workout. Turns out she was consuming an entire head of lettuce prior to her workout and the distension of her stomach and intestines was provoking an insulin response and corresponding glucose dump from her liver resulting in high blood sugars.

Wow! That is so interesting! Along the same lines, I've also heard that no matter what we consume ( protein, carb, fat) we tend to want the same volume / weight of food every day! (which I also found interesting!)

So it makes sense to not go overboard with the veggies (I've never eaten a whole head of lettuce at once, have you?) but to have some for the volume and weight of them, and to balance the rest with protein and fat.

[kevinpa]

oh, btw I only ate the outer very green leafs because the lighter green

the more carbs are in it

http://www.nutritiondata.com/nf.php?q=B00001-01c30dv

[nawchem]

It's not always the amount of carbs that influence the insulin/blood sugar response, sometimes it's the volume of food as well.

I have to say WOW too. Since I started my hypoglycemic diet 6 small meals/day, I couldn't figure out why I would lose as much weight in 2 days of that as I lose in the first 2 weeks of induction. Its a lot higher carb. I also noticed that I get completely stuffed now with much less food. Could the smaller food volume have made my insulin levels drop even more?

[Kaizan]

I don't measure lettuce - but I'm pretty sure I'm not choking down a head of lettuce at a sitting as well.

[bkloots]

I've never figured out quite how to measure lettuce. :lol:

And then there's spinach....

[spiroll]

oh, btw I only ate the outer very green leafs because the lighter green the more carbs are in it ]

This is totally news to me...thanks for sharing that.

[Maamel]

I wouldn't know what a cup of lettuce looks like if it walked past me on the street! ha!ha! (being in the UK the measurements are a bit different). I just put as much I think will satisfy me on my plate and then go with it. If I need more I have more. So far it seems to be working.

[teresa35]

Ithink part of the reason he lists amounts is to teach those just starting what portions are, and to assist in the initial detoxification of our bodies. Personally, i don't sweat it - I eat veggies and salads, and get the majority of my carbs from those, rather than condiments or junk. If that extra cup or two of salad slows me down, so be it. This is a lifestyle, not a competition.

[Jonahsafta]

I dont measure lettuce...I eat lots, all different varieties ( except iceberg...awful stuff if you ask me)..dont measure allowable vegies...eat lots of those, too....as far as I can tell it never bothered me....

[LiveWell]

I dont measure lettuce - I figure no one ever got fat off of lettuce.

[Bobi-p]

Unfortunately, lettuce gives me digestive problems, one cup seems to be my max and I do have to visit the Rest Room within an hour of consumption.

[Qmass]

I always measure my lettuce, but that doesn't keep me from eating a lot of it! Every day with lunch I have 2 1/2 cups of Romaine and 2 1/2 cups of raw spinach leaves.

[kyrasdad]

I don't measure lettuce, or most of my other veggies for that matter.

[Jonahsafta]

Bob-P...:)

[jedswife]

I don't measure lettuce, or most of my other veggies for that matter.

i am the same. i do not bother to measure lettuce or other low carb veggies like asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, green beans etc. - it seems i dont really have to count those in my carb counts but i came to that only after trial and error. :)

[ItsTheWooo]

Just out of curiousity...how many Atkiners out there believe in being stringent with measuring lettuce during extended induction or OWL? I ask because... I gotta tell ya...I just am not. I watch what I put on a salad...but I'll openly admit that I frequently (like daily) consume more than 2 or 3 cups of lettuce. I sometimes have salad at bfast, lunch, and dinner! Anyone else the same?... and why do you think the allowed measurements(2-3 cups) are what they are?

I placed this in the war-zone so that newbies wouldnt get all wrapped up in it... it's better to stick to basics when starting out I think. (Also just in case someone decides I need a slam or two because 6 or 7 cups of lettuce and a cup of broccoli per day isnt following the plan to the letter. :lol: )

Needless to say, no one EVER is getting fatter because they ate an extra cup of lettuce. In fact, this is one of those things where I say the rule is self-defeating. Everyone knows that filling up on veggies can prevent you from over eating caloric food (and then getting hit with the "stuffed truck" later). Thats why every diet in the history of the world praises veggies and other sources of fiber + water. I know for a fact when I'm eating the most veggies (FRESH of course, fried in fat doesn't count), I'm eating the least calories and losing weight (or trying to keep it on).

I agree - watch what you put ON the salad (dressing, eggs, cheese) and not how much lettuce you are taking, and you will have much better weight loss results.

In general induction depends on a complete and total suppression of appetite to work. It encourages weight-counterproductive habits like viewing fat as "all you can eat". While it helps to have safe foods (so that psychologically you don't feel like a binge waiting to happen)... it also helps to have a realistic view of what food does and what it is for when you DO decide to leave induction and your appetite is no longer non-existent. Because if I keep the "fat is safe and eat all of it as much as you can" mentality OUTSIDE of near-ketogenic levels of carbs... I'm gonna gain weight like nobody's business (sugar free cheesecake anyone?)

[ItsTheWooo]

Although, I don't think we should get in the habit of eating veggies totally free either. I think they should be what we "mindlessly snack on" carrots + mustard, cucumbers + salt and lemon, stuff with zero cals and very low carbs. But these things do have cals and carbs. When I got my precise food scale and started weighing all my food to the gram, I discovered many of my salads before I put anything fat or protein on them had over 50 cals. That's a lot when you are trying to lose weight and your maintenance calories are really freaking low.

[ItsTheWooo]

It's not always the amount of carbs that influence the insulin/blood sugar response, sometimes it's the volume of food as well. ;)
Along those lines, Dr. Bernstein relates a story in his book of a women he saw in his practice that could not figure out why her blood sugars were going up to 300+ after her afternoon workout. Turns out she was consuming an entire head of lettuce prior to her workout and the distension of her stomach and intestines was provoking an insulin response and corresponding glucose dump from her liver resulting in high blood sugars.
Now...in a non-diabetic, it probably wouldn't have such a dramatic effect but given that a lot of low carbers are insulin resistant and have high levels of circulating insulin, avoiding the insulin response may be what is behind the restriction on bulky veggies like lettuce. ;)
Another thing about the veggie restriction; that assumes that you will be getting carbs from other allowed sources during induction such as cheese, cream, lemon juice, olives and avocados. If you're not eating those other things, I don't see a reason to not add additional veggies to get to the 20 gram limit each day. I don't think I ever met anyone who got overweight eating too much broccoli. ;)
That said...I don't measure my lettuce and usually just 'eyeball' my veggies, too. :)

Yea, big meals in general are bad news for me and I should think others with blood sugar problems. I never thought about it that way; Atkins never emphasized the importance of keeping meals physically smaller so I assumed it was a carb thing.

Either way lettuce isn't really a high volume food. It's deceptively so, since it's mainly the structure of the thing that makes it look so big (boil down a cup of spinach and you are left with a tiny ball). So either way lettuce is a win-win - it bulks up your plate, but it doesn't over-bulk your tum (likely just "enough" to make you feel full but not "too much" to make you stuffed)

[ItsTheWooo]

I have to say WOW too. Since I started my hypoglycemic diet 6 small meals/day, I couldn't figure out why I would lose as much weight in 2 days of that as I lose in the first 2 weeks of induction. Its a lot higher carb. I also noticed that I get completely stuffed now with much less food. Could the smaller food volume have made my insulin levels drop even more?
I'm gonna say yes.
I'm hypoglycemic too and your experience mimics mine. I don't eat 6 small meals religiously but in general when I avoid "american meals" and eat "several snacks" daily I experience all the wonderful benefits you do... and yes I can much more easily tolerate 100 carbs if I spread them out over 5 meals + snacks vs 1 meal.
If I do "feast and famine" (eating nothing all day and then a monster dinner) I'm looking at a resurgance of carb issues. If I do "3 meals" I am okay but not as good if I make a few meals all day.

Generally it's most important not to eat a lot at any given time; that's the rub for me.
I think the supersizing of portions is an extra factor which encourages metabolic syndrome and obesity.
Portion control is just as important as carb control.
Studies show that those kids who get fat and those who stay thin are the kids who can not compensate for big meals. Fat kids eat their junkfood with their friends, and their bodies seem to lose the ability to compensate later (likely because of the metabolic issues caused). Thin kids are impervious to the problems caused by junk food (big meals); they naturally compensate later and thus stay thin. I would go so far as to say keeping meals small is as important as keeping carbs low for us.

[arc]

"mindlessly snack on" carrots + mustard

Mustard and carrots?!

That's a new one, but sounds like my wife. She puts mustard on everything. One of her favorites is dill pickles dipped in mustard. Yuck :lol:

[ItsTheWooo]

Mustard and carrots?!

That's a new one, but sounds like my wife. She puts mustard on everything. One of her favorites is dill pickles dipped in mustard. Yuck :lol:

A lot of people don't like sour foods but I love em :)
When I ate like crap I put sour kraut + ketchup on my hotdogs mmmmm yum :D . I can eat lettuce with just vinegar. Pickles! Yay pickles!

I'm fortunate because sour foods are awesome for weight and blood sugar.

[arc]

When I ate like crap I put sour kraut + ketchup on my hotdogs mmmmm yum :D .

Nobody, but nobody, puts catsup on a hot dog

[MyJourney]

I made this list for my boyfriend who refuses to count carbs but wanted to get a general idea of veggies he can eat and how much. The numbers in this list reflect how much he can eat to reach 20g carbs a day. These are just veggies he likes, so not all veggies will be on here. I got the numbers off of fitday.

Please keep in mind that my math might be wrong and that I only listed the amount in whole numbers that can be had while staying under 20g of carbs so if one can have lets say 3.9 cups of something I will list it as 3+ instead of rounding it off to 4.

• endive 0.12 carbs per cup (166+ cups per day)
• escarole 0.15 carbs per cup (133+ cups per day)
• spinach 0.24 carbs per cup (83+ cups per day)
• romaine lettuce 0.378 carbs per cup (52+ cups per day)
• lettuce 0.38 carbs per cup (52+ cups a day)
• arugula 0.41 carbs per cup (48+ cups a day)
• chard 0.7 carbs per cup (28+ cups a day)
• collard greens 0.75 carbs per cup (26+ cups per day)
• artichoke hearts 1.48 carbs per heart (13+ a day)
• broccoli 1.97 carbs per cup (10+ cups per day)
• mushrooms – 2 carbs per cup of white mushrooms sliced (10 cups a day)
• cucumber 2.1 carbs per cup (9+ cups per day)
• cabbage 2.2 carbs per cup (8+ cups a day)
• radishes 2.3 carbs per cup (8+ cups per day)
• bamboo shoots 2.39 carbs per cup (8+ cups per day)
• sauerkraut 2.53 carbs per cup (7+ cups per day)
• cauliflower 2.7 carbs per cup (7+ cups per day)
• snow peas 3.12 carbs per cup (whole) (6+ cups per day)
• hearts of palm 3.25 carbs per cup (6+ cups per day)
• asparagus 3.27 carbs per cup (6+ cups per day)
• string beans 4.11 carbs per cup (4+ cups per day)
• bean sprouts 4.3 carbs per cup (4+ cups per day)
• Brussels sprouts 4.54 carbs per cup (4+ cups per day)
• zucchini 4.55 carbs per cup (4+ cups per day)
• scallions 4.74 carbs per cup (4+ cups per day)
• jicama 5.1 carbs per cup (3+ cups a day)
• tomato 6.37 carbs per cup (3+ cups per day)
• artichoke 6.54 carbs in 1 med artichoke (3 per day)
• leeks 6.88 carbs per cup (2+ cups per day)
• spaghetti squash 6.98 carbs per cup (2+ cups per day)
• pumpkin 7 carbs per cup (2+ cups per day)
• daikon - 8.48 carbs per radish (2+ a day)
• onion 10.92 carbs per cup (1 cup per day)
• water chestnuts 15.69 carbs per cup (1 cup per day)


I usually eyeball my veggies but on occassion I will weigh them to see how accurate I am. I do weigh other foods and I have a very accurate food scale that I like to use. I sometimes will measure my broccoli but that is only to keep me from eating too much of it. I love broccoli and can easily eat 10+ cups a day. I mostly do it not out of carb concerns, but 1 cup of broccoli is 25 calories and not all that filling. I get at least 100 calories a day from broccoli which is a good amount when I am trying to be a bit restrictive.

[MyJourney]

oh btw, those were all "net" carbs with the fiber already subtracted.

[PlayDoh]

i used to measure the lettuce, but i don't anymore, i just eyeball it. i really have to watch the veggies though. too much of anything other than green beans, zuchinni, or cabbage, and the weight starts picking up.

like mustard? try it on pizza. scrumdiddly delicious :D

[GlendaRC]

Nobody, but nobody, puts catsup on a hot dog
'Scuse me? What's wrong with it?!!! It's delicious, especially if you mix it with mustard!!

[JaneDough]

'Scuse me? What's wrong with it?!!! It's delicious, especially if you mix it with mustard!!
Ketchup on the dog is pure heresy. My nephew even puts it on his corn dogs. CORN DOGS. I think the boy is a sleeper agent from Mars.

As much as I believe a person's first round of Induction showed be followed exactly, I didn't measure lettuce then and I ain't measuring it now. That'd be like measuring the amount of mustard slathered on my hotdogs. :D

[rockerball]

I've never measured my green vegetables or lettuce, even a while back when I followed the book word for word and shed 70 pounds. that was one of the few parts of the book I thought was a little absurd.
jeez, if i'm going to be measuring everything , especially LETTUCE, i might as well join weight watchers.

[arc]

'Scuse me? What's wrong with it?!!! It's delicious, especially if you mix it with mustard!!

It's a line from a Dirty Harry movie (The Dead Pool, IIRC). But, personally, I agree with JaneDough. Pure heresy.

[RobLL]

except for the first two weeks I have not measured carbs in low/med low veggies. Not in terms of weight (weightlifting) but size I have gone down steadily and have rarely, and only temporarily, gained so much as an inch. I pay close attention to clothing sizes, also use a trick or two to keep track of my buoyancy in the pool where I swim. Rob