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coolwater
Tue, Nov-01-05, 16:13
http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/magazine/lclnewsvol06-no11-pg11.html

The current Western diet, now unfortunately enjoyed worldwide, has produced many unintended consequences in its consumers. Most readers of "low-carb" literature can probably recite, line and verse, most descriptions of how we got into the current "healthy, low-fat lifestyle" that seems to be killing us. Nevertheless, and at the risk of being bombarded with e-mail, as someone who wrote his Honors Thesis at Yale on "Human Biological and Social Evolution," allow me to offer a few insights into our past and current eating behaviors.

We share from 98 to 99% of our genes with chimps and gorillas, who have been forest dwelling apes for the past 5 million years or more. The bulk of the food consumed by these apes, then as now, are leaves and occasional fruit. While gorillas solely eat leaves, chimpanzees supplement their diet with animal protein, including insects, grubs, and even higher animals such as monkeys. Although the gorilla is classified as an herbivore (plant eating only), most herbivores consume a modest amount of animal products (insects, insect eggs, spiders) just in the process of eating leaves. That fact notwithstanding, the vast majority of the interaction between apes' intestines and the genes of each ape's cell are with green plants and the compounds they contain.

It is also abundantly clear from the fossil evidence of early man, both in our facial bone structure, teeth formation, and animal bones associated with our fossils, that early humans supplemented their diets with animals. However, there is no evidence, for most of our evolution, that animals became the dominant food source. What do I mean by this? Simply put, even if we received the majority of our calories from eating animal products, the quantity of plant material entering our bodies far exceeded the amount of animal products on a day to day basis. This concept is a bit difficult to grasp the first time around, so consider an example that illustrates the point. The fat in whole milk only accounts for 4% of its weight; 2% milk is 2% fat by weight; in other words, a very small percentage of that cup of milk you're drinking is fat, yet, because fat has 9 Kcal of energy per gram, whole milk gets approximately 60% of its calories from fat. Even 2% milk gets 35% of its calories from fat. But if we were to look at all the types of nutrients you consumed while drinking that glass of milk, the number one nutrient is water! So, if you went on a 100% whole milk diet, fully 60% of your caloric intake would be from fat, even though in essence you're drinking water with just a tiny bit of fat added. It's the same way with our ancestors' "meat eating" diet. A lot of calories, even the majority, may have been obtained from eating animal prey, but the majority of food by weight entering our ancestors' mouths was probably plant based.

It also goes without saying, but I will anyway, that our ancestors consumed a low fat diet, even if they consumed huge amounts of animal products. Let's make sure we understand this concept: Wild animals are lean. The fat they do contain is remarkably different from our factory farm raised animals of today, as most of the animals our forefathers consumed, even two generations ago, were leaf and grass eating herbivores, whose fat contained high amounts of conjugated linolenic acid and a much greater proportion of the saturated fat, stearic acid, both "heart-healthy" fats. Let's also understand that most good carnivores love fat! Why? Two reasons: Fat contains fat-soluble vitamins that carnivores require; and fat has more than twice the calories as the muscle of an animal, and three times the available energy than protein or carbohydrates (leaves). Those are very good reasons why any animal, when starvation is a real daily possibility, loves fat. Our ancestors were so good at finding the fat in an animal, that they routinely split all the long bones to get to the fatty marrow inside. That's an impressive effort to get to something that's supposedly bad for you!

So, it's easy to understand our innate desire for fat and why we heed the siren call of "eat all the meat and fat" pitchmen of "low carb" diets out there today. Unfortunately, I must beg you: Don't listen! The fat our ancestors ate bears no resemblance to the animal fat we eat today! Proponents of this "eat fat" argument seem to think that "parts is parts" as the old TV commercial stated regarding the composition of one company's chicken "nuggets" over a competitor's. Unfortunately, it simply isn't true. Studies of cows fed either alpine meadow grass, hay, or grains show a direct negative correlation of beneficial fats and nutrients which appear in their milk, fat, or muscles. In other words, as fresh grass intake lessens and grain intake increases, the benefits of consuming dairy products declines. Is "grain fed" fat deadly? Absolutely! Studies at the University of Maryland, where I was once a Professor, have shown that the average blood flow through healthy volunteers' arteries decreases by 40% following a fatty meal! Now that's a "low carb" lifestyle I can live without (excuse the pun).

Despite this depressing information, it is clear from the various habitats that humans occupy that we can survive on a near total animal protein and fat based diet or a total plant based diet. But the fact that humans can survive on a certain diet doesn't suggest that they are thriving on that diet. The gentleman I performed a quadruple coronary artery bypass on today has survived very well on a typical American junk food diet, but I doubt when he wakes up that he would claim that he has thrived on that same diet! The words "survive" and "thrive" are simply not interchangeable, yet many proponents of one or another style of eating constantly confuse the two words, setting the stage for dietary disaster. But, what about cholesterol levels improving on a "high fat/low carb diet"? Yes, it does happen frequently, because your liver is no longer receiving instructions to manufacture cholesterol. Sadly, however, one half of all patients who experience a heart attack have "normal" cholesterol levels.

So much for our ancestors. What about our current mess? And am I saying that the low fat Ornish or Pritikin diet is the way to life-long happiness? Absolutely not! However, the low-fat hysteria of the last twenty years had its basis in good solid data and the evolutionary records of early man, but how that dietary recommendation was implemented spelled disaster for our health and waistlines. We're surviving but we're definitely not thriving. Readers of Low Carb Luxury probably already realize that the substitution of refined carbohydrates for the excessive fats in our diet over the past twenty years was the food industry's and the health care industry's way of implementing the "Low Fat Lifestyle". Prestigious health organizations such as the American Heart Association (of which I am the local chapter's President), championed the low-fat lifestyle, and most of us physicians followed in lock step behind. Why? Because, on the surface, the evidence is extremely convincing that low fat diets produce less heart disease and obesity. What isn't apparent is what kind of "low fat" diet this evidence is based upon. The people with the low incidence of heart disease in Ancel Keys' pioneering Seven Countries Study in the 1950's weren't eating much fat because they were busy eating lots of vegetables, not bagels and rice cakes. And, because most people Keys studied were recovering from the devastation of World War II, meat products were hard to come by, number one, and number two, what meat people did consume was primarily fish or scraggly cows, pigs, or chickens with little fat. And even if people were eating pasta or breads or grains, they immediately were walking or performing heavy labor, using those concentrated carbohydrate calories for immediate fuel, rather than storing it as fat like we inactive Americans.

For many years, we physicians missed these subtle, but telling findings. It wasn't really the low fat; it was the huge amount of unrefined plant material that produced low rates of heart disease! And this finding comes full circle back to our prehistoric forefathers and even our great ape cousins. We evolved eating huge amounts of green "things" (a gorilla eats 16 lbs of leaves a day to maintain its weight). Groups of humans that do that in recent times continue to show very low incidences of heart disease (or any other disease for that matter). Groups of humans, who don't do that, regardless of country of origin or foods indigenous to the region, develop heart disease. This was just confirmed this week at the European Society of Cardiology Congress where the incidence of heart disease was compared in 30,000 individuals from around the globe who were followed for 9 years. Those who ate large amounts of vegetables and fruit, didn't smoke, and engaged in daily exercise had approximately a 90% less chance of developing heart disease!

Having said all that, when I have an overweight or obese patient with heart disease, I start them on an induction phase diet for two weeks that resembles a South Beach diet, that we call the "Restore Eating Plan". I have real problems with the high amount of milk based products in the Atkins or South Beach programs, so our program allows much less. Why a reduction in milk products? Doesn't milk "do a body good"? Unfortunately milk products contain a hormone called insulin-like growth factor (IGF), which is so named for its remarkable chemical similarity to insulin and to its similar actions. While much rhetoric and emotions have been wasted on cows being injected with BGH (bovine growth hormone) and causing IGF secretion in their milk, all cows produce IGF and lots of it in their milk, whether or not they receive BGH.

When excess insulin is a problem in my patients with metabolic syndrome (and it is a major problem), the last thing I want them eating is more of an insulin-like hormone! And unfortunately, IGF levels go up in your blood stream the more milk you drink or milk products you ingest. In general then, we try to limit milk products to ricotta cheese, which is made from the whey in milk. We do encourage whey based protein powder supplements for the same reason.

And like most "low carb" programs, we do get dramatic results. But! And it's a big BUT! We like to think of fat in your belly as a cancer. After all, a cancer is a collection of cells that are growing and are trying to kill you. If your belly fat isn't a cancer, I don't know what is! If I were treating you for a "real" cancer, I might prescribe chemotherapy to kill off your cancer cells. But I probably wouldn't keep you on intensive chemotherapy the rest of your life, because the chemotherapy in itself is toxic to your normal cells if they're exposed for long enough. It is the same with intensive "low carb" therapy. We use it for a short time to help "kill off" your growing fat cells, because it really works. But in the long run it's about as dangerous as what it replaced. That's why in the Restore plan, we transition our patients to become vegephiles. And I don't mean vegetarians. I spent 13 years as Professor and Chief of Cardiothoracic Surgery at Loma Linda University Medical Center which is a Seventh-Day Adventist Medical School and have treated scores of Vegetarians for heart disease. The common factor? Most of these vegetarians were, in fact, pasta-tarians or grain-atarians (my terms), as the majority of their food intake were refined grain based meals heavily supplemented with fat to ensure adequate caloric intake. Sure, they avoided meats, but they also avoided vegetables. And, they too, developed heart disease. So, in the "Restore Eating Plan", we restore our patients' blood vessels by having them become vegetable eaters, not vegetarians.

In doing so, it appears that we have lessened the confusion about simple versus complex carbohydrates, or between processed or refined carbohydrates. Frankly, all these terms befuddle the vast majority of my patients. So we apply the KISS principle whenever possible: Keep It Simple, Stupid. Our patients are taught:

Eat green and become lean.
If it's brown, slow down.
If it's white, keep it out of sight.
Eat nuts and food raw, your heart will go "ahhhhh!"
Your heart and brain have a wish, please eat more fish.
Berries and cherries make your heart and brain merry.
Does this mean no meat? Not at all; but, we place meat in the brown food group, so you merely "slow down".

Does it work? A study we have conducted on the "Restore Eating Plan" has been selected for presentation at the 4th International Conference on Diet and Aging in Toulouse, France in November, due in large part to the careful monitoring of cholesterol reductions, weight reductions, and changes in inflammatory markers in our patients and ourselves. I personally am excited about the "Restore Eating Plan" for selfish reasons: I've lost 55 lbs over the past 15 months and totally restored my previously terrible cholesterol profile to stellar! My body fat dropped from 27% to its current 15%. My administrator has lost 30 lbs in 8 months and dropped her total cholesterol from 250 to under 200, while raising her HDL (good cholesterol) to 97!

So, in conclusion, "low-carb" is a wonderful and effective tool to induce weight loss and to jump start a diet that we use in the initial treatment of our overweight or obese patients with heart disease and/or metabolic syndrome. It is a powerful chemotherapeutic method of "killing" fat cells. However, transitioning from a low carbohydrate into a "greens eating machine" appears critical to achieving a lifetime of health. In such a way, the Restore Eating Plan is not a diet, but a new way of life.

For those interested in more details of the "Restore Eating Plan", contact The Heart and Lung Institute and click on "Health Tips."

Steven R. Gundry, M.D., FACS, FACC
Director, The International Heart and Lung
Istitute Center for Restorative Medicine

coolwater
Tue, Nov-01-05, 16:14
I'd really like to hear anyone's feedback on this article... I posted in the warzone as it may spark debate...

mcsblues
Tue, Nov-01-05, 19:04
What a confused bunch of nonsense! Most of what he says supports what low carb authors say - eg getting good sources of grass fed meat will provide better quality and an improved ratio of fats. He says that our ancestors ate a lean diet ... and in the next sentence gives all the good reasons why they didn't! His anti fat diatribe includes a glowing reference to "Ancel Keys' pioneering Seven Countries Study in the 1950's" - which as we know is a prime example of dishonest junk 'science' (the dishonesty of Keys and the word science really don't belong in the same sentence).

But finally, after lecturing us about how long he has been aware of all this "as someone who wrote his Honors Thesis at Yale on "Human Biological and Social Evolution,"" he lets slip that after all that time presumably following his own advice (?) he lets slip that "I've lost 55 lbs over the past 15 months and totally restored my previously terrible cholesterol profile" - well congratulations! - but why was this necessary in the first place?

Cheers,

Malcolm

rianleeann
Tue, Nov-01-05, 19:24
I'm very impressed with this article, except where the author tends to compare (somewhat) the typical American diet to a low carb diet.

I unfortunately tend to agree that it is not a good idea to eat a lot of beef, as cows ARE injected with chemicals and hormones, not to mention treated extremely inhumanely in the slaughterhouses. I've reduced my beef-eating to only once per month or less.

Regarding the milk product debate, I've heard this same thing many times, but have yet to do anything about it because so many low carb foods that I enjoy are milk products of some type.

Will this article change my way of eating? No, as I tend to follow much of it now. I eat seeds and vegetables and fruit, and lean meats like fish and chicken.

However, and I hate to say this, but the "Restore Eating Plan" diet is just that- another diet.

322432
Thu, Nov-03-05, 23:22
How does this article explain the existance of the Eskimo for the last millions of years? I've been there, and they are definately real. Low fat, mostly plant matter---Get real.

coolwater
Fri, Nov-04-05, 11:23
I guess the main point that troubles me is what he has to say about eating the fat (and meat) of grain-fed animals as opposed to grass-fed...

Lisa N
Fri, Nov-04-05, 15:27
Studies at the University of Maryland, where I was once a Professor, have shown that the average blood flow through healthy volunteers' arteries decreases by 40% following a fatty meal! Now that's a "low carb" lifestyle I can live without (excuse the pun).

I was curious about this, so I went looking for the study that the author referred to and found mention of it here (http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc97/11_29_97/fob2.htm). That high fat meal was hardly low carb! Here's what they had:

But in people tested 2 hours after eating a fast-food meal of eggs, sausage, biscuits, and hash brown potatoes,

This is supposed to support his assertion that fat from grain fed animals is poison? I'd sooner arrive at the conclusion that a McDonald's Sausage Biscuit with egg and a hash brown patty is poison. BTW...blood flow decreased by 18%, not 40%. ;)

That's not to give grain fed animals a clean bill of health, though. While I wouldn't go so far as to label the fat from grain fed animals as poison, it is unbalanced as far as the omega 3 to omega 6 fat ratio being far too heavy on the omega 6 side. Is the answer to that to stop eating grain fed beef and go for grass fed only? Maybe, but a far less expensive option would be to include more fatty fish (like salmon) in your menus or supplement with fish or flax oil to balance the fat ratio in your diet closer to the recommended 1 part omega 3 to 2 parts omega 6 (currently most Americans get something closer to 1 part omega 3 to 20 parts omega 6).

Let's make sure we understand this concept: Wild animals are lean.

Let's make sure that we understand the whole concept (not just the part that supports an author's POV); wild animals are lean when food is scarce such as winter and early spring. The rest of the year, most animals will attempt to put as much fat on their body as possible to be able to survive the lean months ahead. Animals that are unable to do this starve to death during the lean winter and early spring months.
The author is trying to convince his readers that our ancient ancestors ate lean animals year round when nothing could be farther from the truth. They knew when animals were at their fattest better than anyone and hunted them as much as possible during that time (and put that fat to good use!).

And...while we may be close genetically to chimps and gorillas, it might as well be miles apart since our intestinal systems couldn't be more different. The chimp and gorilla have very long intestinal tracts designed to allow them more time to digest their heavily plant-based diet (this is why they have such rounded tummies...to fit in those many extra feet of intestine). Humans have relatively short digestive tracts which are more in tune with being omnivores/carnivores. ;)

mcsblues
Fri, Nov-04-05, 15:46
Let's make sure that we understand the whole concept (not just the part that supports an author's POV); wild animals are lean when food is scarce such as winter and early spring. The rest of the year, most animals will attempt to put as much fat on their body as possible to be able to survive the lean months ahead. Animals that are unable to do this starve to death during the lean winter and early spring months.
The author is trying to convince his readers that our ancient ancestors ate lean animals year round when nothing could be farther from the truth. They knew when animals were at their fattest better than anyone and hunted them as much as possible during that time (and put that fat to good use!).

Exactly - but not only that, even when game was at its leanest, the fatty bits were the most prized, in fact there is evidence of our Aborigines discarding the lean meat of a kangaroo (highly prized today because it is low fat year round!) unless they were starving.

And as Gundry correctly points out (although he contradicts himself often!);

Our ancestors were so good at finding the fat in an animal, that they routinely split all the long bones to get to the fatty marrow inside. That's an impressive effort to get to something that's supposedly bad for you!

BTW Lisa, nice catch on the bogus study he refers to (and even then misrepresents the results!) - Mike Eades wrote a piece recently about how similar 'research' is still presented;

http://blog.proteinpower.com/drmike/archives/2005/10/high-fat_high_j.html

Cheers,

Malcolm

Lisa N
Fri, Nov-04-05, 16:10
Thanks for that link, Malcom! Dr. Mike appears to be talking about the same study that our author above refers to. Interesting how they come to such very different conclusions with the same data, eh?


Exactly - but not only that, even when game was at its leanest, the fatty bits were the most prized, in fact there is evidence of our Aborigines discarding the lean meat of a kangaroo (highly prized today because it is low fat year round!) unless they were starving.

It was very much the same with Native Americans who prized the hump of the Bison which could contain as much as 50 pounds of fat and selectively hunted older male Elk because they knew the older males carried more back fat than the younger males. Similarly, they recognized that very lean game was no prize at all and would lead to something called 'rabbit starvation' if one had to rely on it for too long for food. Such lean game was only eaten under the most dire of circumstances.

Galliard
Fri, Nov-04-05, 16:36
My understanding of modern carbohydrate-rich plant food is that it was bred over tens of thousands of years for size and sweetness. For example, the modern ear of sweet corn is far larger and far sweeter than what our hunter-gatherer ancestors might have had access to. The same thing with fruit -- like crab apples, it was much smaller and much less sweet. The wild blackberries that grow in the woods near my house are very sour, unlike the grocery store variety. I'll bet that the large quantity of plant matter that Dr. Gundry refers to was probably very low carb -- buckets of salad greens, perhaps.

Dodger
Fri, Nov-04-05, 18:25
Almost all the plant food that humans now eat are recent are recent additions to the diet. For example (http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/pumpkin.html)"Cucurbita (squash and pumpkin) species originated over 9,000 years ago in Central and South America, the first of the triad of corn, beans, and squash to be domesticated. Squash was grown primarily for its edible seeds, because the flesh of these early types was bitter-tasting." Italics are mine.

Dodger
Fri, Nov-04-05, 20:16
Let's make sure that we understand the whole concept (not just the part that supports an author's POV); wild animals are lean when food is scarce such as winter and early spring. From the book The Unending Frontier by John F Richards, page 583 "In a good year, whaling produced surpluses that could be traded with other, nonwhaling communities more reliant on caribou or reindeer. Whale oil provided badly needed fat for caribou hunters, whose diet consisted of lean meat most of the year, and helped balance out years when caribou stocks fell or were nonexistent."

Hybrid
Fri, Nov-04-05, 20:36
And...while we may be close genetically to chimps and gorillas, it might as well be miles apart since our intestinal systems couldn't be more different. The chimp and gorilla have very long intestinal tracts designed to allow them more time to digest their heavily plant-based diet (this is why they have such rounded tummies...to fit in those many extra feet of intestine). Humans have relatively short digestive tracts which are more in tune with being omnivores/carnivores. ;)

That's where I just gave up reading. He's assuming that genes eat food, rather than animals. The man may or may not be a qualified surgeon, but he's an idiot.

Paleoanth
Sat, Nov-05-05, 22:03
You know what I hate? Nonpaleoanthropologists using paleoanthropological data and theory to support their arguments when it doesn't. Sure chimps and gorillas are close to us genetically. They are farther from orangs than they are to us. But GRADISTICALLY chimps and gorillas are closer to orangs than to humans. You cannot just look at clade, you must look at grade. Which brings us to us. We don't live in the same grade as our ancestors either. When was the last time any of us went out and foraged, scavanged or hunted our meals? As fas as I can tell we are evolved to be omniverous. That includes plant and animal foods-which Atkins wants us to eat. I don't really see this guy's point.

BTW, 322432, eskimos haven't been around millions of years-at most it looks like 30 thousand.

Hybrid
Sat, Nov-05-05, 22:35
I don't really see this guy's point.

"If it's brown, slow down." Given that Bovine Scatology is often quite brown, I'd advise reading his nutritional advice very, very slowly.

LOOPS
Thu, Nov-10-05, 19:05
so really the answer is to eat fish, grass-fed beef and lots of low-carb veggies? Sounds like what I've been doing. And of course, if we're eating grass-fed animal flesh, then we can go ahead and eat high fat. In his eyes, is there any problem with this I wonder?

Hybrid
Fri, Nov-11-05, 10:29
I agree with his color advice on grass-fed beef, though. "If it's brown, slow down. If it's red, go ahead." Rare beef just tastes better, doesn't it?

ysabella
Fri, Nov-11-05, 16:20
Yeah, it's always a problem when someone who is an expert in one field seems to think we should accept them as an expert in another field. "Look! I'm a heart surgeon! And when I read a bunch of stuff about gorillas, I come up with a mangled theory that I think is really clever." :rolleyes:

cartersg1
Tue, Nov-15-05, 12:48
This is the same hookum...the same rhetoric...last time I checked, I was eating lean meats and oh - what is that on my plate?!?!? VEGETABLES!!! Mercy me!!! Are you kidding??? What - do they think we just chow down on any meat like it just came off the spit because we're trapped on some desert island like the cast from "Lost"???? And what's good for a chimp isn't necessarily good for man. We ARE different after all.

The quip about heart disease is rather telling. ANYONE can develop heart disease. Genetics will play a large role in this process. It doesn't run in my family but do I take chances any more? No. DH, on the other hand, has diabetes in his family and yet does not really do much to control his carb intake. I've stopped buying high-carb snacks. It should help. I've known people who are vegetarians (even vegans) who are just as unhealthy or just as healthy as anyone else. It's the other factors in their lives that count as well - weight, family history, activity level, food allergies/intolerances, lifestyle. I spent a lot of years avoiding meat, thinking it was a good thing. The stuff I was putting into my system was more toxic to my body and detrimental to my health than anything I do now. Jeez...

bkloots
Fri, Nov-18-05, 05:59
If you look at the little rhyming rubric at the end, you'll see that it's Atkins maintenance--or (I assume) the final outcome of just about any established low-carb eating plan. "If it's white, keep it outta sight"--well, yeah.

People are omnivores. That's why we've got those incisors (like dogs) for shredding stuff, and molars (like cows) for mashing it up. In our primitive state, we are as opportunistic as pigs--we eat whatever's available. That's why American diets are heavy on fast food--easily available!:lol:

Whole foods--real foods--consumed in appropriate quantities. All macronutrients in appropriate quantities. Plenty of water. Daily exercise. Who can argue with that? I'm an Atkid--and it works for me.

Hybrid
Sat, Nov-19-05, 07:39
Whole foods--real foods--consumed in appropriate quantities. All macronutrients in appropriate quantities. Plenty of water. Daily exercise. Who can argue with that? I'm an Atkid--and it works for me.

Everyone.

Let me show you show.

First, define appropriate quantities, and you'll find someone who disagrees with you.

When you say all macronutrients, it sounds as if you're advocating alcohol consumption. It is a macronutrient, after all. Also, the human need for carbohydrates is exactly the same as the human need for alcohol, zero. You could be healthy for the rest of your life without ever consuming another gram of carbohydrates or alcohol.

The dogma of 8-10 glasses a day is an urban myth. Go to www.snopes.com and look it up. Best place on the net for debunking urban myths.

And daily exercise? Google found about three hundred and eighty three thousand hits for the search term "overtraining (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLC%2CGGLC%3A1969-53%2CGGLC%3Aen&q=overtraining)." :read2:

Welcome to the world of uncertainty.

PaleoDeano
Thu, Dec-08-05, 23:45
Everyone.

Let me show you show.

First, define appropriate quantities, and you'll find someone who disagrees with you.

When you say all macronutrients, it sounds as if you're advocating alcohol consumption. It is a macronutrient, after all. Also, the human need for carbohydrates is exactly the same as the human need for alcohol, zero. You could be healthy for the rest of your life without ever consuming another gram of carbohydrates or alcohol.

The dogma of 8-10 glasses a day is an urban myth. Go to www.snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/) and look it up. Best place on the net for debunking urban myths.

And daily exercise? Google found about three hundred and eighty three thousand hits for the search term "overtraining (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLC%2CGGLC%3A1969-53%2CGGLC%3Aen&q=overtraining)." :read2:

Welcome to the world of uncertainty.

I have to agree with you, Hybrid! While we need to move around, and walking and some resistance training are probably the best exercises, most people who "work out" are taxing themselves to the point of serious harm! They are sending "panic signals" to their brains and setting off a cascade of hormonal hell!

There are cultures who laugh at plant eating, saying "that is for cows", and it is so true what others have said about the fat (and internal organs) of animals being extremely prized, and in fact would be the only parts consumed during times of plenty... in other words, what is "starvation food", people?... and what is the "best", most "nutritious" food... I'll go with fat and organs any day, if that is what was prized by our ancestors, who were WAY healthier than we will EVER be!

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html

I will also take this information, based on REAL research, over this quacks "advise", based on stupid conjecture, any day!

tom sawyer
Mon, Dec-12-05, 13:15
The guy is spewing standard vegetarian/fruitarian rhetoric. Its old stuff, generated by people who drew a conclusion (veggie good- meat bad) and then went searching for data to support it.

I personally have nothing against plain old grain-fed beef, even with the traces of chemicals. The hormones are the same that we produce in our own bodies, and I bet they get cooked up anyway.

LarryAJ
Mon, Dec-12-05, 19:47
I wonder what the "great" doctor would say about this paper?
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/2/1/31

Also he is obviously unaware of the findings at (I hope I have this right) the "sun cave" in England. There there is a "butcher" site where they have identified the bones of two now extinct animals, grazers as I remember. The text that I read (wish I now knew where so I could give you a link) had comments where someone pointed out the the two animals were known to weight in the range of 200 pounds for one and 500 for the other. He then pointed out that as weight goes up in an herbivore, so does the percentage of body fat. As I remember the percentages were something like 40% and 60% respectively.

The doctor has also knows nothing about some of the common animals such as the opossum and ground hog. The 'possum is well know for its' very greasy meat. And I skinned out a g'hog once, and boy was there a thick layer of fat next to the skin. And pigs are not exactly lean!

Regards,
Larry

bioteclady
Mon, Dec-12-05, 21:01
Larry whats your favorite part of the groundhog?