What are they doing to our kids?: School Lunch Debate and more....

[Rocky1]

Ok, here's some more of my random thoughts of the American nutrition wars....things that really bug me. Let's start with the government. They use the "Food Pyramind" and tell us what is "good for us". Our schools are supposed to make meals that prescribe to this notion. I no longer have a child in school, but if I did he would definately be packing his own lunch! I've been in a few school cafeterias in recents years and the lunches are...well, tragic, for lack of a better word. The school now prohibits the sale and consumption of sodas....good call. However, they have no problem handing out chocolate milk.....a fat laden, sugary glitch! What sense does that make. Lets look at the other items on the menu: buttered grilled cheese sandwich, fruit coctail, fried "tater tots", and a peice of frosted cake. Wow, how nutritious! Yeah, right! If we use our imagination, we can actually assign those things to the basic food groups and comply with the government standard.

I read a startling statistic.....25% of today's kids are clinically obese! That's scary. A decade ago, only 4% were. I have theories on this too. The parents themselves is where most of the blame lies. For one thing, today's working parents don't prepare meals like they used to. Parents themselves mostly grew up eating in the microwave, ready-to-eat, fabricated food generation. That's all they know, so they pollute their children with this crap as well. There's little discipline at home regarding food these days: Mom doesn't make Johnny eat his veggies because she thinks most of them "suck" too. Also, when Johnny is at Walmart and grabs a big bag of Snickers, she doesn't make him put it back. Often, she doesn't spend enough time with the kids because both parents work. She makes up for this by letting them have whatever they want....not realizing that's why she does it. I've seen kids who drink nothing but Pepsi and Mountain Dew.....like they have a constant sugar "I.V" going into their veins. It's just downright tragic. Then of course, there's television advertising. Kids are bombarded with ads for cereals featuring Disney and Star Wars characters.....sugar in different shapes. They add vitamins to these things so they can call them "nutritious". I saw a kid one day putting chocolate milk on Fruit Loops....un-friggin'-believable!!

Then there's the other extreme: Parents who find an eating lifestyle that suits them and then FORCE it on their children. I think that's terrible! I'm 42 years old and have been, as stated in another thread, on a low-fat (10% or so calories from fat) for most of my adult years....it seems to suit me and all of my growing and development years are well behind me. BUT, I would never allow a child to eat in this manner! I think that more fats in the diet are essential in a child's development. By the same token, I would not allow a child to pursue a Low-Carb diet either. Carbs are essential for the exercise and acedemic activities of daily life for a child. I would prescribe a traditional balanced diet, not low fat, not low carb, but I diet consisting of real, quality food and a minimum of junk.

Academically, our kids have dropped to something like 13th in education among developed nations. Do you think that has something to do with their physical well being, or lack thereof? I sure do! These kids are the future of this country.....and we're handicapping them with poor health by what we feed them. I wish more people would realize this and do something about it before it gets totally out of control.

[emmy207]

I agree with this post. The problem is the same in the UK and the numbers of obese children that you see in the street is frightening. But look at the supermarket trolleys of their parents and it is no surprise.
Children are over -indulged in being given the food the want, rather then what is good for them.
Growing up fizzy drinks were a treat, for sunday dinner or at christmas. They are banned at school both for packed lunches or at the school canteen. Though we did have fruit juice and flavoured milk but we did not have an obesity problem.
The school lunch ladies always insisted that we had to have veggies on our plate, even or hamburger day.
I was a very reluctant vegatable eater, I still loathe peas, mushrooms and carrots. But I did like leafy green veggies and tomato sauces too. My mother always put cress on my plate, gave me vitamin C tablets and got me to eat satsumas, grapes, apples etc.
It wasn't low carb, I was given museli at an early age and loved it, I only every had white bread at Granny's house which I visited twice a year.
I often had honey on my toast, for a treat Nutella or marmite, but that is not the same as being bought a large bar of Dairy Milk, a big box of doughnuts, chicken nuggets and big bottles of coke every week.

I know that many of my school friend, that were not from wealthy familes, were given vegatables with the meals at home. All they parents were concerned about health. Now it is my generation that is begining to have children but they often by quick an easy.

My cousin's two year daughter goes to day-care. They were serving the same kind of junk to these little children, that was the scandal of the public schools. Until my cousin found out and the parents protested. At home this little girl is raised on a very healthy diet but she has already been introduced to junk food.

Children don't new low carb or low fat, they just need to be feed the right food which includes, fruit, veggies, grains, dairy, protein and sometimes something sweet. If their diet is balanced, then a piece of cake or a biscuit sometimes will not hurt them.

[Nakkira]

Just wanna jump in here and say that I hate it when I see parents at the super markets with their kids and all they have in their buggies are snack cakes and sugar laden sodas. The other day there were 10(!) little toddlers (age 2-4) walking around stuffing their faces with french fries and chicken nuggest from McDonalds. All the while the parent was stocking up on little debbie snacks. It blows my mind.

I am really afraid for kids now a days. When I went to school we had 3 seperate lunch lines and a salad bar. I'm not sure if they still do that today but atleast it's variety. I just wish they'd stop selling Domino's pizza. But even with that they still had coke machines and snack machines all over the place. They would turn them off during lunch hours but that doesn't stop kids from getting it other times of the day. *sigh* I really would like to see an informed nutritionist working with a school lunch menu. Sorry to say it but I don't believe that the people serving our kids have the knowledge to keep them healthy.

I have 3 younger siblings and I try to tell them to eat healthier. My dad is a great cook and keeps it healthy and my mom is a LCer so they have good stuff at home but I dread what they are putting in their mouths at school.

[MsCarrieM]

I just want to say WHY ARE YOU ONLY BLAMING THE MOTHER????? SHE this and SHE that, how many homes are run by the MAN in this day and age?

I do agree that many kids are getting overindulged by their parents, but it comes back to the price of food. I can buy 3 bags of pasta for the same price as a pound of broccoli. So if I wasn't aware and was buying solely based on stretching a budget it would be pasta tonight!

[Nakkira]

I can buy 3 bags of pasta for the same price as a pound of broccoli. So if I wasn't aware and was buying solely based on stretching a budget it would be pasta tonight!

I just bought 3 bags of 1lb frozen veggies for 88 cent each. That's the same price I pay for pasta.

[Zuleikaa]

In my area 3-1 lb. boxes of pasta are on sale for $1.00. even at $0.88 a box, 1 box will feed a family of 4-5 with no problem. I can eat 1/2 of a 1 lb. bag of veggies by myself. And if you're not feeding carbs, you need to fill the stomach with more meat and veggies.

Now buying junk is another issue, true without junk you can expand your budget for meat and veggies but lets not fool ourselves carbs are cheap. And they taste good. A bottom line buget issue for schools and some families.

[Rocky1]

I'm glad you brought up the example of the price of pasta vs. the price of fresh vegetables....here lies another sad but true reality. Why is it that in most cases, the poorest people are also the fatest? It's a simple reality of economics. These kids should be eating fresh fruit and vegetables but can't afford them. The US government has programs such as WIC....basically, they can get cereal, milk, cheese.....but not anything green. They preach the food pyramid but they have no program where poor kids can have real, nutritious foods! They have no problem handing out milk and cheese, they have been floating the dairy industry for years. When you go to the supermarket, you see all the beautiful fruit...apple, grapes, kiwis, melons.....but they cost so much! I'm an information technology profesional now, and I can barely afford them on a regular basis. Same thing with fresh vegetables. Oh, and lean meat? .....forget about it. Now, take a look at the candy aisle: A 2 pound bag of Snickers miniatures for only a buck! There's a special this week on Food Lion sandwich cookies....500 for only 99 cents! Lets not forget the buy one, get one free sale on the jumbo bag of potato chips!.....so we can wash it down with the 99 cent giant 5 liter Pepsi! That's the reality of the food scene today....it sux, but what can ya' do?

[ysabella]

Who 'bombards' the children with ads, exactly? I'm curious. Where are kids seeing the ads in a completely involuntary manner?

Personally, I have read that kids need dietary fat and I believe it, especially when they are young. It's needed for brain development. Sugar and starches are the real battle. Kids tend to be active, plus they have all that growth hormone (so it's not as harmful as later in life when that slows down), but still.

[Lisa N]

No argument here that pasta and potatoes are cheaper than meat and veggies, but it comes down to a matter of priorities. Are you willing to give up a few hours of free time to see that your family is fed healthy meals?
I see a lot of people making a fuss about how expensive it is to feed a family, but then they eat out at McDonald's 2+ times a week (no time to cook, they say). For my Family of 4, I can count on it costing at least $15.00 per trip if we eat at McDonald's; multiply that by twice a week and that's $30.00. What can I buy for $30.00 at the grocery store? Well...this week I could get chicken thighs or a frozen hen turkey for 79 cents a pound (about what you pay for a pound of pasta), pork roast for $1.19 a pound, fresh baby carrots, spinach and broccoli for $1.00 a pound and frozen veggies for 88 cents a pound (one bag will feed the four of us one meal). Basically, I could buy enough meat and veggies for the 4 of us for the next week at least for that same 30 bucks I spent on two meals at McDonald's. Now you tell me what the smarter purchase would be, not to mention which is healthier. Short on time? Utilize that crock pot gathering dust in the basement or spend a few hours on the weekend cooking for the week ahead.

Find school menus scary? Pack your kids a lunch. But I should also add that no matter how healthy a lunch you pack your kids, you can't prevent them from trading it for something they'd rather have. ;)

For one thing, today's working parents don't prepare meals like they used to. Parents themselves mostly grew up eating in the microwave, ready-to-eat, fabricated food generation.

Speak for yourself. We didn't even own a microwave until I was in high school and then it was used primarily for reheating leftovers. I myself cook dinner 28 out of 30 nights out of the month (we eat out twice a month). My kids eat breakfast at home and pack a lunch to school (and my DH and I pack a lunch for work...leftovers).
Yup, we're a fast food nation, but let's not lump all families into the same category. Some of us are actually paying attention to what we feed our families.

Then there's the other extreme: Parents who find an eating lifestyle that suits them and then FORCE it on their children.

No matter what you choose, unless you choose to just let your kids eat whatever they feel like, you will be 'forcing' some type of eating style on them. The question then becomes, how are you going to feed them?
I choose to have my kids follow controlled (not LOW) carb with a minimum of junk food and plenty of protein, healthy fats, veggies, dairy and fruits and very moderate amounts of whole grains. They're honor roll students, both of them, with 3.8 and 3.9 grade averages. Yesterday, they spent nearly 4 hours playing outside with the neighborhood children after spending 1 1/2 hours at martial arts training, so they're obviously not lacking in energy, either. Neither of them is overweight and they are both healthy and growing as they should according to their pediatrician who, BTW, gives mom a thumbs up and an 'atta mom!' for how they eat. ;)

[Over40]

I just want to say WHY ARE YOU ONLY BLAMING THE MOTHER????? SHE this and SHE that, how many homes are run by the MAN in this day and age?

I do agree that many kids are getting overindulged by their parents, but it comes back to the price of food. I can buy 3 bags of pasta for the same price as a pound of broccoli. So if I wasn't aware and was buying solely based on stretching a budget it would be pasta tonight!


To the first part of your post: He's got his arse planted in front of the TV watching NASCAR, yelling obscenities at Jeff Gordon, taking a sneak peek at Playboy TV when no one is looking, and piling frozen pizzas into his pie hole.

Now, back to the second part of your post. You are absolutely correct, pasta, soda, frozen yogart bars, mac and cheese, corn chips, etc. are a much better food bargain for most people then food that is good for them. Also, time is a factor in food preparation.

All of this is less expensive, and quicker now, but in the long run with health care it gets horribly expensive.

Over40

[Rocky1]

Uh.....whatever. I make some statements about society in general and you have those who have to jump in and say "NOT ME!".....going on the defense. I never said those who use this forum fall into that category.

[emmy207]

I just want to say WHY ARE YOU ONLY BLAMING THE MOTHER????? SHE this and SHE that, how many homes are run by the MAN in this day and age?

I do agree that many kids are getting overindulged by their parents, but it comes back to the price of food. I can buy 3 bags of pasta for the same price as a pound of broccoli. So if I wasn't aware and was buying solely based on stretching a budget it would be pasta tonight!

I blame both parents, I blame the fathers that teach kids by example of binge drinking,smoking and sitting in front of the telly stuffing themselves with take aways and tv dinners.
I have not problem with you kids eating pasta, that isn't the problem, that is making kids obese. It is the potato chips, the doughnuts, chicken nuggets, pizzas and over processed mircowave meals that parents are feeding their children, wilfully ignoring the warnings as their children get fat.

[bsheets]

... parents are feeding their children, wilfully ignoring the warnings as their children get fat.
I think this sums up the entire thing! This is what is actually happening!!

Uh.....whatever. I make some statements about society in general and you have those who have to jump in and say "NOT ME!".....
This is always going to happen if you don't make yourself clear, hunny.

e

[Ksrt]

The blame the parents thing is true, but I've been saying for a long time that nothing will change until the entire culture changes. Parents are expected to both work and work more than 8 hours a day, the kids are given too much homework and the parents are expected to help with that too so the kids stress pours over onto the parents. All the kids activities are now scheduled during dinner and we have a society that raises the bar on what is an acceptable level of achievement. I have 3 gifted children who get straight A's in very advanced classes and to be considered rounded, they have to have umpteen extracurricular activities, and be in band, etc (for college admission to places like Stanford). I had to alter what I put in my kid's lunches because one has 9 minutes for lunch and the other 17 (in 3rd grade) and they can't chew the food fast enough. Everything requires more than you can give.

I work very hard to provide healthy meals for my family and make sure my kids get enough sleep, but I am working against cultural norms for most of it and lots of people would not exhaust themselves the way I have to achieve it.

KSRT

[emmy207]

In my country the media including the tabloids are constantly discussing healthy eating. I was taught at school about sugar being bad for you, shown the "tooth in a glass of Coke" thing.
We had cookery classes teaching us healthy things to cook too.
Things like lentil soup, coleslaw, quiche, homemade pizza, bolognaise sauce, apple pie etc. We did drink brightly coloured ice drinks and sweets on the way to school. (There was an amazing sweet shop at the top of my road, it was very popular before and after school.) But for most people didn't have mircowaves and us kids were still feed our meat and two veg dinners. And we were not fat.
The difference is the our kids are often not taught cookery any more. (If they don't recognise a courgette/zuchini!!) But their parents were taught and feed better, so they should now better too.
Advertising is more and more aggressive, in the UK MacDonalds advertises directly to tweenage kids (8-12), they put in a comment in it about making sure the exercise and run about, but it is encouraging kids that are out in groups to eat junk.
I understand the poverty issue but fresh food is cheaper than meals from the chill cabinate. And if you bulk buy you can make spaggetti sauces, cassoroles, chilli etc and freeze it. They way you only have to buy the veggies, it is a mircowave meal but with nothing nasty in it.

[Paleoanth]

I had to alter what I put in my kid's lunches because one has 9 minutes for lunch and the other 17 (in 3rd grade) and they can't chew the food fast enough.
KSRT

This has got to be illegal. If not, it should be.

[Lisa N]

This has got to be illegal. If not, it should be.

As far as I know, it isn't. My kids are in 5th grade and get 15 minutes to eat lunch followed by a 30 minute recess (often the only one they get during an average day). But they also get time in the morning for a snack. Then again, I don't recall having more than 20 minutes to eat lunch at any point during my primary or secondary education years; but how much time does it take to eat half a sandwich, a small piece of fruit and a few raw veggies with dip?
Schools are steadily cutting recess and physical education classes to focus on the 'more important' math, reading and science classes; next year, they will not get a recess and will have gym only once a week. When, exactly, are these kids supposed to get any physical activity? When they get home, they have 45 minutes to an hour of homework even now in fifth grade. By the time they are done with that, it's time for chores and dinner and with the days getting shorter, by the time dinner is done it's nearly dark outside.
It's difficult to balance education with enough activity already but then you add extracurricular activities and well...guess what goes by the wayside (unless that extracurricular is a physical one like a sport).

Uh.....whatever. I make some statements about society in general and you have those who have to jump in and say "NOT ME!".....

When you make sweeping generalized statements, people tend to think you are including them in the same category. ;)

[Christal]

Rocky -- can't help but notice that you are posting this stuff in the "war zone" -- is that a "special forces" thing too? :) Then, you seem to be annoyed when others post negative or contradictory comments in response......I believe that is what the "war zone" is all about.

[potatofree]

There's plenty of reading on the school luch situation in the media section, complete with the expected putting down of any changes being made as "not good enough"...

IMO, most schools I've personally dealt with either as a student or a parent seem to be trying to do the best they can with the resources they have.

[kwikdriver]

How long has the issue for human beings been, "What and how much will I eat this meal?" as opposed to, "Will I find/kill enough to eat so I will live today?" I think blaming parents is a little short sighted. The abundance we have now is unprecedented by historical standards; even by the standards that reigned just a few generations ago: we aren't programmed to make consistently rational choices when confronted with plenty. I suspect that it's going to take more than tongue lashing lax parents to solve the childhood (and adulthood) obesity problem.

[nikkil]

had to alter what I put in my kid's lunches because one has 9 minutes for lunch and the other 17 (in 3rd grade) and they can't chew the food fast enough.

My youngest son complained about this when he was in Grade 1 and now, unfortunately, has had to learn to eat faster. They get a certain amount of time to eat and then they HAVE to go outside - no choice on when - so if he's not finished, too bad. I agree that they need the exercise, no argument here on that, but then they're not allowed to bring anything that would have garbage - in other words, they can't bring anything in a baggy or with a wrapper or even an apple because of the core, a banana because of the peel, etc. They had a problem with garbage so they can't bring anything outside. I get it but I think they should have added 5 minutes onto lunch to give them time to eat! They want the kids to focus and pay attention in class - hard to do if they aren't eating enough, right? I try to pack things that he can take outside without wrappers - cheese stick (peel it before going outside) 1/2 sandwich - hold in his hand, I've even given him raisins and nuts and told him to put them in his pocket :lol:

The worst of it is teaching them to gulp down their food - sure, it doesn't take that long to eat but when they're little it takes longer than when they're older, we don't want them to choke, and they're always more interested in socializing instead of eating at the best of times :p

I think it's fair to blame parents when they're younger (I'm a mom of 3) and somewhat when they're older because some of their decisions are based on what they've learned but then they get to the point where they're out there on their own and parents aren't there to supervise (they shouldn't be, anyway). My motto is to raise my kids the best I can and set them up for the best possible outcome in life and then let them free to put those teachings into practice and hopefully it all goes well. My oldest 2 are 14 and 16 and we're at that point now.... *grey hairs, chewed nails and all :D *

[potatofree]

Don't worry, Nicole. My daughter is 20, and I survived. ;) She even ADMITS I was often right...

[AZDweller]

I gave up the fight two years ago at my son's middle school. 15 minutes to get lunch and eat (usually 10 minutes in line and 5 to eat). So he ate bagged lunches all year. He was overweight already, and by the end of 8th grade, obese. I packed the things my mom packed in lunches. We were obese too, and totally frustrated. (Still obese, but not totally frustrated anymore.)

I started Atkins the last week in April. He started one week later. I showed him an Atkins testimonial of a teenager who lost 100 pounds, and he was hooked. I started this year sending lunch -- just too boring. Sandwich on 1 carb raisin bread with a thin coating of peanut butter and sf jelly. Cheese sticks, veggies, a Carb-right cereal bar. Not that much you can pack in a HS kids' lunch -- they want to blend in. I thought of lots of things, but they weren't cool for one reason or another. Now he's going after the salad bar every day. He'll burn out on that, too. Then we'll try something else.

He's still growing, and even if he drops moderately and keeps exercising, he should grow into his weight. He is 15, in marching band and plays tennis a couple of times a week. I figure I've given him two things - awareness of what he eats, and the tools to make it happen if he wants to succeed. We are all lo-carbing at home, so dinner is controlled, breakfast is controlled. We just don't make a big deal of "what did you eat today -- good boy or bad boy, how much did you lose?" Food is food. Your choices are yours. Eating disorders come from putting too much emphasis on food. I spent a childhood hearing that at home -- I won't give my son those memories.

[nikkil]

Don't worry, Nicole. My daughter is 20, and I survived. ;) She even ADMITS I was often right...

Gee, I didn't admit that until I was at least 25...maybe closer to 30 :lol:

thanks, Tater!

[nikkil]

I know that there's a difference between Canadian and American schools when it comes to cafeterias and lunches. We don't have cafeterias in elementary schools (Kindergarten - grade 7) and there's only 1 machine and it only has juice and water and it's right by the office and they can only buy things at lunch and after school. Then, in high school, there's a very small cafeteria with a limited selection (mostly junk but also salads), prepared by the students who are enrolled in a cooking/cafeteria course, and only the fastest get anything. Otherwise, everybody brings bagged lunches or goes home for lunch. We're less than 2 blocks from the school so DS1 and his friends come here and DS will make something and the other guys will bring their lunches, sit back and relax and eat, watch TSN and go back to school. They do have vending machines but there's a health initiative going thru the schools and the machines will all be removed over the next year :thup: Very, VERY rarely I'll give my 2 older boys $ for a soda, otherwise they have to spend their own and they're just too tightfisted to waste their $ :lol:

Just from what I've read and seen on TV :p , it seems like American kids have a lot more access to fast food/prepared food at school. Is that true???

Oh, once every couple of months there will be a 'hot lunch day' at the elementary school and they send home an order form, you fill it out and include the $ and send it to school and on that day they'll have hotdogs or personal pizzas.

[Paleoanth]

I still find it horrific that the amount of time for lunch is so limited.

[potatofree]

I'm feeling like my kids were pretty spoiled, even if the lunches weren't nutritionally ideal... they get a half-hour for lunch. Our schools have breakfast, too. I prefer to have Steven eat breakfast at home, since it's usually pancakes, cold cereal, bagels, and such... and he needs his food with his meds, especially protein (it seems to make it easier on his stomach). The pop machines are turned off during the school day, except the juice and water one. One day a week is "bake sale day" for the classes to have a fundraiser, otherwise food isn't allowed anywhere but the cafeteria. We don't even have a fast-food restaurant in the COUNTY, since we're so far in the boonies. That's a pretty good thing, actually. ;)

[Mossling]

The middle school I teach in has not quite 1,000 students, 38 minutes for lunch, 2 a la carte wagons, 6 food lines outside the multi-purpose room (the wagons and those food lines are for the kids who pay for lunches) AND 2 lines inside the MP room (for free and reduced lunch students or paying students). Everyone gets through the line--which means, gets food--in 10 minutes. That gives the kids 28 minutes to eat and play.

We offer lots of junk, true (not as much as in days gone by, when the only thing people could get at recess was giant cookies), but we also offer a lot of healthy choices. Last year, as an experiment, the district set up an "alphabet salad" day--giant salad bar with something that started with each letter of the alphabet (and no, I don't know what they did for X.) HUGE success, but too expensive to continue. <sigh> I agree with Tater: they really are doing the best they can with what they have. I don't know about other places, but our food services group has to make do with under $2.00 a day per kid, including breakfast, snack, and lunch.

Jude

[AZDweller]

...Especially when the culture can't agree on what's healthy. I feel like our choice to go lo-carb was the best thing that ever happened to our family. But it totally butts against the USDA. No servings of breads and cereals, etc. -- maybe an occasional lc tortilla or piece of very lc bread. Some veggies, no fruit, lots of meat and eggs, light on the dairy. Way more fat than the USDA preaches. And we're losing weight. Our family has lost more than 100 pounds together now. If we still were doing the traditional meat, potatoes, bread, cereal, milk, fruit and veggie thing, we probably would have lost nothing and gained 20. This isn't a diet, it's just eating differently for life.

[truckgirl]

Just finished reading through all the posts on this thread, and now considered myself warned! DH and I don't have any children yet, and though many things come to mind when I think about the responsibilities and challanges of raising children, never once did I think about teaching my kids to eat quickly so they can get their school lunch down! :( Of course, by the time we have kids and by the time they are in school, who knows what the rules will be. Anyway, I really appreciated hearing the concerns of parents and what they have done to ensure their children eat healthy meals. I myself was raised in a family that didn't have a microwave until I was about 10, and we rarely ate out. Even on roadtrips, we would usually just stop at a grocery store and get sandwich supplies. The main reason for the way we ate was because of finances, but I realise now that it was a blessing in disguise! :) I grew up on a dairy, so most of our meat, dairy, fruit, and vegtables were all fresh and organic. I really miss these, now that I live in town. One of the main things I worry about is the hormones in meat and dairy products. Does anyone have thoughts regarding this matter? I especially am concerned about a daughter getting too many hormones from food.......I've heard, and maybe it's not true, that is one of the reasons girl's periods are starting at younger and younger ages.

[Lisa N]

I especially am concerned about a daughter getting too many hormones from food.......I've heard, and maybe it's not true, that is one of the reasons girl's periods are starting at younger and younger ages.

Generally the onset of menses won't occur until a girl has hit a certain body weight and bodyfat percentage. I think that one of the reasons that we are seeing this happen at younger ages is that girls are hitting that weight and bodyfat percentage at a younger age than in past years (thanks again to the standard American diet). Hormones in food (although they aren't as high as some suppose since any treatment must cease at least 2 weeks before slaughter) may play a part, but the higher weights at an earlier age is more likely the larger part of this.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/2/347?ijkey=YOy46acUHlew6&keytype=ref&siteid=pediatrics

[Paleoanth]

Generally the onset of menses won't occur until a girl has hit a certain body weight and bodyfat percentage. I think that one of the reasons that we are seeing this happen at younger ages is that girls are hitting that weight and bodyfat percentage at a younger age than in past years (thanks again to the standard American diet). Hormones in food (although they aren't as high as some suppose since any treatment must cease at least 2 weeks before slaughter) may play a part, but the higher weights at an earlier age is more likely the larger part of this.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/2/347?ijkey=YOy46acUHlew6&keytype=ref&siteid=pediatrics

Lisa-

You are exactly correct. Menses will not start until you hit 17% body fat. It is now happening at a younger and younger age because we are getting there at a younger and younger age. This phenomenon is occuring in most Westernized cultures.

Average Age females enter menarche
Country 1900 1960
USA 13.8 12.5
Finland 16 13.6
Italy 14.3 12.6



I don't have recent data, but you can see the trend.

BTW, trying to put any kind of table in a post SUCKS!

[kwikdriver]

You are exactly correct. Menses will not start until you hit 17% body fat. It is now happening at a younger and younger age because we are getting there at a younger and younger age. This phenomenon is occuring in most Westernized cultures.
I don't have recent data, but you can see the trend.

Here's more current data:

http://www.mum.org/worldmen.jpg


I should add that the data used prior to about 1960 has been roundly criticized because of issues with sample and incomplete data collection. What it amounts to is, nobody really knows what the average age of menses was in 1900, so it's impossible to say if it's changing or not. But comparing the current data in the U.S. to the other reliable data point we have, in 1960, and it's about the same; in fact, it came on at a later age in 1990 than it did in 1960.

[Paleoanth]

Eveleth and Tanner are researchers I get a lot of information from for a class I teach. I will add this as well.

Thanks.

[truckgirl]

You are exactly correct. Menses will not start until you hit 17% body fat. It is now happening at a younger and younger age because we are getting there at a younger and younger age. This phenomenon is occuring in most Westernized cultures.

I see, that makes sense. :agree:

[zajack]

38 minutes for lunch
Wow...I wish!!! My first grader gets 20 minutes to get through the line sit down and eat before being sent to recess (which means they have about 10 minutes to eat. There is no leeway because the cafeteria is small and they need to funnel all of the classes through within a certain frame of time.

I wouldnt care as much if it were middle school. Kids by that age have kinda got themselves together enough to prioritize and to understand...ok...got 20 minutes...eat now...talk later. Sorry... but there's no way you're going to get that to sink in for a 6 or 7 year old in a room with friends after 2 hours of classroom structured time. (especially not my 6 year old...he'd talk the ears off a rock if he thought it looked interested enough :lol: )

My 7 year old nephew was just talking today about not getting to eat much of his lunch because he ran out of time and had to go outside. He basically ate another full lunch at 3:30 because he was starving! I think it's ridiculous.

I do pack lunches...but frankly...it's almost more expensive and really doesnt seem to matter much when you consider he only eats a third to one half of whatever he gets anyway. Lunch winds up being an expensive snack...it's no wonder they're starved when they get home!! :agree:

I could pack him a lunch with soup and sandwich or fruit and cheese and crackers with applesauce, or whatever every day...but 75 % of it comes home and gets thrown out! Why spend the time and money making a lunch and have to clean up the messy lunchbox, if he can buy something at the school for less? He had peaches, milk and a burger today at the school. I do bagged lunches when the school is offering junk choices 2 or 3 days in a row. (like nachos one day, and pizza or chicken nuggets the next...then I send him with a lunch on one of those days. ~we'll be baggin' it tomorrow :D )

Ideally...I'd like him to get at least 20 minutes of time at the table...if they're done early...then fine...they could head to recess early. I dont know...just needed to vent my disgust too i guess. :)

As for quality of food at home....we personally have very little junk....and I firmly believe that's how it should be!!! My kids (and hubby) eat the same proteins and veggies that i eat...I just bulk it up with pasta, rice, or bread for them. We rarely have sweets in the house. I probably buy cookies once every 2 months or so and buy virtually no sugar cereals (maybe captain crunch as a treat twice a year or so). My kids consider carrots, grapes, apples, wheat thins, cheese, and ritz to be their normal snack food options. Sometimes it's embarrassing because my kids have no idea what some of the stuff is at other houses. I swear...just last week....my sister-in-law looked at me like I had 2 heads when my son asked her what a pop-tart was!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: (he saw the box on her kitchen counter)

Ah well...they dont seem to be suffering any...I dont think they feel deprived!

[truckgirl]

As for quality of food at home....we personally have very little junk....and I firmly believe that's how it should be!!! My kids (and hubby) eat the same proteins and veggies that i eat...I just bulk it up with pasta, rice, or bread for them. We rarely have sweets in the house. I probably buy cookies once every 2 months or so and buy virtually no sugar cereals (maybe captain crunch as a treat twice a year or so). My kids consider carrots, grapes, apples, wheat thins, cheese, and ritz to be their normal snack food options. Sometimes it's embarrassing because my kids have no idea what some of the stuff is at other houses. I swear...just last week....my sister-in-law looked at me like I had 2 heads when my son asked her what a pop-tart was!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: (he saw the box on her kitchen counter)

Ah well...they dont seem to be suffering any...I dont think they feel deprived!

Way cool- that's how I want to cook for my family! :) So far it's just DH and it's working at this point. Like you said, he eats the same meat, veggies, berries, etc as I do, and whatever carby dish I add to the meal for him.

[GlendaRC]

Eating in a set amount of time isn't possible for everyone. Ever heard of slow eaters? Of course you have! Well, it's not always a case of socializing instead of eating, or goofing off - just as we're all agreed that everyone is different metabolically, so are we different enzymatically! A case in point - my husband and I can take an identical size bite of beef steak and chew until it swallows easily. He reaches that state after 3 chews when he claims it's liquid and it's like chewing water. I am swallowing meat that's still semi-solid after 28 - 30 chews when I'm just tired of chewing! It's no wonder I was always skinny growing up! I NEVER had time to finish a meal!!

I'm pushing 70 now, and I'm STILL the last person to leave the table and I'm usually just finishing my main course when everyone else has had seconds and finished dessert. Forcing a child to eat faster than he/she is able, is just setting them up for eating difficulties all their life and schools should be made to understand this! Until there is a way to test for salivary enzymes, and a way to correct imbalances, everyone should be given enough time to eat at their own pace! </end of rant>

[bladegem]

.I just bulk it up with pasta, rice, or bread for them. We rarely have sweets in the house. I probably buy cookies once every 2 months or so and buy virtually no sugar cereals (maybe captain crunch as a treat twice a year or so). My kids consider carrots, grapes, apples, wheat thins, cheese, and ritz to be their normal snack food options.

Those are the food choices I had growing up. We never had sweets at home excepting the annual birthday cake and candy in our Christmas stockings. Even after a childhood based on "natural" foods like you're describing, I still struggle with my weight. Right now my two younger sisters are significantly overweight and wear a bigger size than I do (they're only 14 and 12, and neither are full-grown). I'm the thinnest person in my family--but only because I started LCing shortly after moving out.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really wish my mom had cut out the carbs when I was growing up so I wouldn't be dealing with this now. :(

[AZDweller]

I wonder how many parents even had a clue about carbs when we were growing up. I know my parents were very concerned about my weight and did many things to try to help -- to no avail. Even to making me extremely self-conscious and self-loathing. This is the first time in my life that I have had any success on any program -- this is for life.
Gail

[alisbabe]

I wonder how many parents even had a clue about carbs when we were growing up. I know my parents were very concerned about my weight and did many things to try to help -- to no avail. Even to making me extremely self-conscious and self-loathing. This is the first time in my life that I have had any success on any program -- this is for life.
Gail

Oh yes - I still shudder thinking about breakfasts of a bowl of weetabix with orange juice and sliced banana (all mixed together :Puke: ), and dinners of boiled soya, carrots and potatos (no meat except fish, no dairy, no salt, no sweets). To be honest I'm surprised I'm not even fatter than I am now.

[bladegem]

Oh yes - I still shudder thinking about breakfasts of a bowl of weetabix with orange juice and sliced banana (all mixed together :Puke: ), and dinners of boiled soya, carrots and potatos (no meat except fish, no dairy, no salt, no sweets). To be honest I'm surprised I'm not even fatter than I am now.

I can relate! Bleh bleh BLEH.

Try RAW oats mixed with applesauce for breakfast. Or plain boiled noodles. Or lettuce topped with fat free cottage cheese (you might as well eat a sponge). Or potatoes with fat free sour cream (more sponge-like textures!!) and that fat free "plastic" butter.

[Dodger]

(you might as well eat a sponge). But sponges are animals. They are probably healthier to eat.

[tom sawyer]

I have one slow eater in the family, the youngest. I am constantly tempted to try and get her to eat faster, but have held back on purpose. Eating too fast is a problem I've had for a long time.

We feed our kids responsibly at home, but have them eat the school lunch. One thing we have implemented, is that they need to eat a fruit and a veggie every time or they don't get dessert after dinner. We count mixed fruit as a fruit, we discourage them from eating corn if there is a better veggie. This has worked amazingly well. Its one of the three things each child answers in our dinner conversation, along with "favorite thing" and something they learned. They have come to expect and really enjoy answering these questions, if we don't bring it up they will. And they don't lie when they forget to eat a fruit or veggie, and we don't belittle them. Just the dessert is withheld, and we are firm about that. Of course, it means we have to come up with a little something for dessert. Can't have the stick and not the carrot.

[potatofree]

I remember dessert being the prize for choking down nasty veggies. My parents didn't really use it in a positive way, I guess, so it backfired. I spent many of my young adult years eating dessert FOR supper, just because I could. :lol:

[bioteclady]

They get choices at school, so they are picking stuff they like. They are good about eating veggies anyway. The 6-yr-old was told that macaroni salad was a veggie, and she told them in no uncertain terms that it was NOT and they went and got her something else. Didn't hurt that she detests macaroni salad but I was glad that she stuck to her guns. There has been a time or two that she said they didn't have a fruit opton and we let that go. But they know we are serious about this.

[nikkil]

I remember dessert being the prize for choking down nasty veggies. My parents didn't really use it in a positive way, I guess, so it backfired. I spent many of my young adult years eating dessert FOR supper, just because I could. :lol:

Yep, I could have written the same thing! We had to sit at the table until our plate was clean (even stuff like blood pudding - who makes their kid eat blood pudding?? My parents, that's who!). Then, dessert every single day - homemade baked things or pudding with whipped cream, etc. When I moved out and could have what I wanted for dinner I ate junk and plenty of it.

Now I don't make my kids clean their plates and we only have any kind of dessert when we're celebrating a birthday and have cake later in the evening. My Mom still can't wrap her mind around no dessert after dinner, like it's a crime not to have it or something :D

[Mossling]

My MIL (may she rest in peace) was one of those rare women who could MAKE dessert and not EAT dessert. A different dessert every night (and sometimes way more than one; if there were 3 men at the dinner table, each with a different favorite pie, there were 3 pies.)

One of the family stories is how she would, once during each of our visits with the family, stand there and say, "I'm sorry, there's nothing for dessert tonight. Of course, we do have the pies from last night, and the chocolate cake from the night before, and there are fresh baked cookies in the jar, and we have vanilla, chocolate, and strawberry ice cream, and there's a whipped-cream-and-chocolate-wafer-cookie dessert in the freezer which would only take a little time to thaw…but we don't have any dessert." (And she meant it, too!)

Gotta love her--and we did (and do.) It's just that for Eula, food definitely equalled love. She was never happier than when she was feeding someone. And she never weighed more than 100 pounds. Sigh.

Jude

[runnr]

I probably buy cookies once every 2 months or so and buy virtually no sugar cereals (maybe captain crunch as a treat twice a year or so). My kids consider carrots, grapes, apples, wheat thins, cheese, and ritz to be their normal snack food options.

Yup, this is how I was raised too, and while I'd love to lose 10 pounds, I've never really had a weight problem.

And as a kid, I can tell you, I never felt deprived not having sugar cereals. I think I tasted them when I was 10 and I thought they were disgusting compared to Cheerios. I certainly wasn't raised on a whole foods diet, but my mom would not let us eat crap and found good ways of making healthy food enjoyable to kids

[nikkil]

that's MY Mom you're describing, Jude :D

If you have a headache? You need to eat

If you're tired? You need to eat

If you have a sore stomach? You need to eat

If you haven't eaten in front of her in the last 5 minutes? You need to eat :lol: :lol: :lol: God bless her :)

My kids, btw, LOVE going to Grandma's house ;)

[Mossling]

My kids--ALL the grandkids--loved going to Grandma & Grandpa's house. For food, for laughter, for love--and for 9 kids lined up on the living room floor in sleeping bags, all praying and then giggling and whispering until, one by one, they fell asleep. AND for singing around the piano. And for the playhouse out back, which was originally built for my husband and his younger sibs.

My MIL was delighted with my two, though--of all the grandkids, they were the ONLY ones who would eat anything and everything. The others were (and are) "picky eaters"--one won't eat anything green, another doesn't like eggs, etc. Mine were always given one teaspoonful of whatever I made for their first serving (you don't have to eat MORE of anything, but you do have to eat THAT MUCH to try it)--and they usually decided that it tasted pretty good. Eula used to talk about the time my DS, who was maybe 18 months old at the time, kept coming back to the marinated mushrooms! :lol:

She's been gone for 12 years now, and I still miss her.

[Jetamio]

Hi - had to share my experience with "school" food here. First two years of school my dd took her lunch because the school didn't offer a hot lunch program (new charter school). However, she ate snack there. It was those "economical" snacks that we discovered she has an allergy to corn. Give her hf corn syrup, dextrose, corn meal, etc. and she gets a horrible rash and migraines.

This year she is attending a school that has a hot lunch program so...because it was new...she decided to try it. Results? Horrible rashes, migraines, upset stomach, etc. She takes her lunch AND snacks every day now. It's just not worth it.

She has always eaten pretty healthy but once she started school and started eating more junk, her allergies reared their ugly head. In the long run, she is better off not having that junk, even once in a while but packing lunches and snacks wears Mom out. :)