Why eat mostly fruits and vegetables?

[wizzzer]

The government says you should eat mostly fruits and
vegetables. How do they know that? How did they arrive at
their conclusions? I'm asking because I don't trust doctors
(or psychologists either) and I don't want to blindly accept
anything that they advise. I know incompetence is rampant.

[Montygram]

Good for you! Keep asking questions. Tell them you want to see
the orginal data from the studies that are supposed to have
"settled" the issue. Most of the time, such basic scientific
evidence does not exist or is flawed to the point of being
laughable. Read my post about the circular logic of the
essential fatty acid claim for an example of the nonsense that
is going on in the name of "science."

With regard to fruits and vegetables: the underlying cause of
most "chronic disease" is oxidative stress (and the free
radical damage to key molecules that it entails when one's
body is loaded with unsaturated fatty acids). Berries, for
example, are very high in antioxidants and counteract some of
the this stress to the body. However, some vegetable possess
strong anti-nutritive qualities and if you eat them in excess
you will likely damage yourself (green leafy vegetables should
be consumed in small amounts only). Turnips are strong thyroid
inhibitors, as is rubarb. You have to be careful, and the
"experts," for the most part, are unfamiliar with the
literature that they are supposed to know. Their general
claims about "fruits and vegetables," "lowering cholesterol,"
consuming fish oil in any quantity, avoiding "saturated fat"
(which they never even define), and eating plenty of "fiber"
are beyond irresponsible.

If you need a question answered, just ask me. I'll provide the
evidence and my interpretation, then you can ask around and
see if anyone else is willing to go to these lenghts to get to
the heart of the issue, whatever it may be. I am objective.
For example, while corn oil seems to be one of the
unhealthiest things you can consume, canned organic corn
appears to be quite healthy. I sometimes puree it and use it
in sauces in small amounts. The antioxidants in the canned
corn, and low fat content suggest that it is not problematic,
unless one were to eat massive quantities of it. Then, if it
had any unhealthy qualities, you would find out what they
were, because even simple, inexpensive experiements that would
verify various claims have not been done, as outrageous as
that is to consider.

[yossarian]

What is it that you think is better to eat than fruits and
vegetables?

[wizzzer]

I'm not saying that I think it's better to eat something else.
I'm not judging one way or the other. What the government says
may very well be right. But I just want to know how they got
their conclusions, because I REALLY do not trust the honesty
and competency of the medical establishment. I think it's bad
to blindly trust ANYONE. That's why I refuse to believe that
there is a god. I think many religious beliefs are ridiculous
and nonsensical, and no one has proven that any god exists. I
just want some convincing, logical evidence that what they're
saying is true.

[Mr-Natural]

montygram wrote:

> With regard to fruits and vegetables: the underlying cause
> of most "chronic disease" is oxidative stress (and the free
> radical damage to key molecules that it entails when one's
> body is loaded with unsaturated fatty acids).

Yes, why eat fruits and vegetables when you can be drinking
coconut oil?

You eat fruits, vegetables, and whole grains because they #1
contain a higher concentration of nutrients, such as
antioxidants and especially Phytonutrients than meat does.

See Phytonutrients Take Center Stage
http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/dec99/stage1299.htm
Phytonutrients provide the impetus for plant nutrition.

#2 you eat lots of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains for
#their fiber
content. Without about 30 grams a day of fiber in your diet
you will eventually get hemorrhoids.
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/h/hemorrhoids.htm

#3 you eat lots of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains
#because they
contain less saturated fat than meat does.

#4 they cost less than meat does.

When you know what you are talking about it is easy to rattle
off the reasons.
--
john gohde http://naturalhealthperspective.com/food/

[Mr-Natural]

Mirek Fidler wrote:

> ...actually false. Since on LC and actually EATING those
> veggies and fruits (unlike pre-LC), I spend much more on
> them than on meat. Of course, you cannot compare it by the
> same weight, but if I take my average plate with steak and
> brocolli, pepperoni etc..., I think that the same costs me
> the same as the steak... Then add some fruit as desert and
> you would conclude that they cost less :)

A 5 pound bag of raw red potatoes at Wal-Mart costs about
$3.50 USA. A couple pound bag of dry uncooked rice costs
almost nothing. A big bunch of brocolli goes for less than
$2.00. You will get at least 4 meals out of that. You can buy
3 or 5 raw ears of corn for a buck. Raw green beans goes for
next to nothing, too.

Just thought that you might want to know.

[outsor]

"The government says you should eat mostly fruits and
vegetables. How do they know that? How did they arrive at
their conclusions? I'm asking because I don't trust doctors
(or psychologists either) and I don't want to blindly accept
anything that they advise. I know incompetence is rampant."

So you ask a bunch of strangers to you of unknown experience
and education on the question? A little bit of searching will
find the guidelines by which the advice is formed from the
agency who does it.

[Mr-Natural]

Mirek Fidler wrote:

> And of course, that there is another issue that steak will
> satisfy my apetite sooner and better per weight that
> veggies. I want to say that I need less steak per weight
> than veggies to feel stuffed. So actually, I need more
> veggies per weight than meat.

Some people just have to argue over every little detail.

Veggies costs more than meat ... Yeah, right, sure... if you
say so. But your real beef is stated above (pun intended).

Just my opinion, but damn I always seem to be right. :)

[Mirek Fidl]

> #3 you eat lots of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains
> #because they
> contain less saturated fat than meat does.

...if you think it is something important....

>
> #4 they cost less than meat does.

...actually false. Since on LC and actually EATING those
veggies and fruits (unlike pre-LC), I spend much more on them
than on meat. Of course, you cannot compare it by the same
weight, but if I take my average plate with steak and
brocolli, pepperoni etc..., I think that the same costs me the
same as the steak... Then add some fruit as desert and you
would conclude that they cost less :)

Mirek

[Mirek Fidl]

> bunch of brocolli goes for less than $2.00. You will get
> at least 4 meals out of that. You can buy 3 or 5 raw ears
> of corn for a buck. Raw green beans goes for next to
> nothing, too.
>
> Just thought that you might want to know.

Well, perhaps it is different country, different prices....
Good size chicken or portk steak here costs about 2$, same
price as 1pd of brocolli (my standard serving size).. Sure,
starches like potatoes or rice are cheap, but that is not what
I eat.... If you go into veggies, prices are quite high.

And of course, that there is another issue that steak will
satisfy my apetite sooner and better per weight that veggies.
I want to say that I need less steak per weight than veggies
to feel stuffed. So actually, I need more veggies per weight
than meat.

All in all, while I am on LC, I spend most of my money on
veggies and fruits rather than on meat like somebody
would suggest.

Mirek

[Mr-Natural]

outsor@citynet.net wrote:
> "The government says you should eat mostly fruits and
> vegetables. How do they know that? How did they arrive at
> their conclusions? I'm asking because I don't trust doctors
> (or psychologists either) and I don't want to blindly accept
> anything that they advise. I know incompetence is rampant."
>
> So you ask a bunch of strangers to you of unknown experience
> and education on the question? A little bit of searching
> will find the guidelines by which the advice is formed from
> the agency who does it.

Funny how I hear a lot a noise, but no informational content
in your post?

Why should anyone eat more fruits and vegetables, dumb ass?
Please tell us so that we can all judge just how ignorant you
truly are.

[Mr-Natural]

outsor@citynet.net wrote:
> "The government says you should eat mostly fruits and
> vegetables. How do they know that? How did they arrive at
> their conclusions? I'm asking because I don't trust doctors
> (or psychologists either) and I don't want to blindly accept
> anything that they advise. I know incompetence is rampant."
>
> So you ask a bunch of strangers to you of unknown experience
> and education on the question? A little bit of searching
> will find the guidelines by which the advice is formed from
> the agency who does it.

Funny how I hear a lot a noise, but no informational content
in your post?

Why should anyone eat more fruits and vegetables, dumb ass?
Please tell us so that we can all judge just how ignorant you
truly are.

[Nick]

montygram wrote:
> Good for you! Keep asking questions. Tell them you want to
> see the orginal data from the studies that are supposed to
> have "settled" the issue. Most of the time, such basic
> scientific evidence does not exist or is flawed to the point
> of being laughable. Read my post about the circular logic of
> the essential fatty acid claim for an example of the
> nonsense that is going on in the name of "science."
>
> With regard to fruits and vegetables: the underlying cause
> of most "chronic disease" is oxidative stress (and the free
> radical damage to key molecules that it entails when one's
> body is loaded with unsaturated fatty acids). Berries, for
> example, are very high in antioxidants and counteract some
> of the this stress to the body. However, some vegetable
> possess strong anti-nutritive qualities and if you eat them
> in excess you will likely damage yourself (green leafy
> vegetables should be consumed in small amounts only).
> Turnips are strong thyroid inhibitors, as is rubarb. You
> have to be careful, and the "experts," for the most part,
> are unfamiliar with the literature that they are supposed to
> know. Their general claims about "fruits and vegetables,"
> "lowering cholesterol," consuming fish oil in any quantity,
> avoiding "saturated fat" (which they never even define), and
> eating plenty of "fiber" are beyond irresponsible.

What do you have against omega 3 essential fatty acid
consumption and enough fiber in the diet montygram?

I know who's irresponsible here!!!

>
> If you need a question answered, just ask me. I'll provide
> the evidence and my interpretation, then you can ask around
> and see if anyone else is willing to go to these lenghts to
> get to the heart of the issue, whatever it may be. I am
> objective. For example, while corn oil seems to be one of
> the unhealthiest things you can consume, canned organic corn
> appears to be quite healthy. I sometimes puree it and use it
> in sauces in small amounts. The antioxidants in the canned
> corn, and low fat content suggest that it is not
> problematic, unless one were to eat massive quantities of
> it. Then, if it had any unhealthy qualities, you would find
> out what they were, because even simple, inexpensive
> experiements that would verify various claims have not been
> done, as outrageous as that is to consider.

[Jt]

On 24 Sep 2005 20:34:36 -0700, wizzzer@hotmail.com wrote:

>The government says you should eat mostly fruits and
>vegetables. How do they know that? How did they arrive at
>their conclusions? I'm asking because I don't trust doctors
>(or psychologists either) and I don't want to blindly accept
>anything that they advise. I know incompetence is rampant.

I would suggest you start reading some books, journals, etc.
Unless you trust and would follow blindly a bunch of anonymous
yahoos in a newsgroup.