Doctor says I'm underweight

[cococarby]

According to my doctor, my current weight of about 112 pounds is underweight for my height of 5'6.

I weighed 150 in Feb. 2004. I hit my goal of 120 in June 2004. Since then I have lost 8 more pounds on maintenance. I also started exercising, mostly aerobic walking, 3-5 days a week. I get enviable amounts of good fats, protein, vitamins and minerals in my diet and probably average 1200-1600 calories a day, and 30-60 carbs.

I have gone up the "carb ladder" and incorpate whole grains and fruit into my diet, and have becoming very relaxed about eating things with small amounts of sugar listed in the ingrediants.

My concern is that while I wouldn't mind gaining a few pounds at all... I just don't want it to turn into a 20 pound gain and shatter all of the work I've done just far.

So, as dumb as it may sound, how would one go about gaining 5-10 pounds and then STOPPING? I guess I'm just afraid that if I start eating to gain weight, I won't be able to start and will end up gaining more than I want to.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[Ayustar]

Do you just keep losing weight or something? I don't even know how you would gain weight and then maintain it like that. Plus you have added carbs? How much do you eat a day *food wise?*

[cococarby]

Typical menu (lately):

B: Protein shake made with Hood 2% Milk

Morning Snack: 3 hard boiled egg whites chopped up and mixed w/ mayo

Lunch: Turkey or roast beef sandwich on lc bread w/ mayo and homemade coleslaw, plus veggies and dip. Sometimes with fruit.

Afternoon snack: Another protein shake or cottage cheese

Dinner: Meat and veggies... I eat a lot of meat (used to work for a meat company). Pot roast, chicken, roast beef, turkey, pork... prepared various ways and pared with salad and veggies such as broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus.. etc.

Late Night Snack: Celery sticks and 3-5 tablespoons of Peanut butter, glass of Hood milk

[cococarby]

I am not trying to lose weight but I do make a very conscious effort to eat healthy and keep my body "moving" throughout most of the day. I usually walk about 1-2 miles a day... but that's more for relaxation purposes than exercise.
My menu may seem "diet-ish," but its actually very satisfying.. I always eat full-fat products, such as cheese, sour cream, cottage cheese, salad dressing, etc. and never eat anything fat free. I eat hefty portions and good cuts of beef and other meats. I snack pretty much throughout the day... I really don't feel like I am dieting at all.

I think I am going to make an appt. with a dietician at my school to see what he or she suggests about what I am eating.

[Dodger]

If you add/change one food item a week, you can effectively monitor your weight gain. What you want is to gain less than a pound per week. As you get near your goal again, drop/change one item a week until the gain stops.

For a start, I would recommend replacing the Hoods milk with real full fat milk.

[ddaniels]

I think the dietician is going to tell you that you are not eating enough calories. 1200 to 1600 calories is really a weight loss range, not a maintenance range for someone your age and height and activity level, and it is very doubtful you will be able to gain anything at that range. You may be able to up the calories by doing things like slipping in a bit more mayo on your sandwiches, increasing your portion sizes a little, and I agree, switching to whole milk. Another way to do it, is to eat the same way you are eating, but add a Boost shake (or 2) to your daily routine.The shakes are very healthy and will add in the calories in a nutritious way. You probably need to be around the 2000 kcal range or even more. It's good that you are going to see your nutritionist!

[ojoj]

If you're happy and feel fit and well I personally wouldnt bother changing anything - I think with low carbing your body finds its own ideal weight. You're lucky you've gotta few pounds to play with.

Jo

[rachelratz]

I don't think you need to be changing anything. I asked my doctor the same thing. He said there is no set wieght that you should be for anyone. Since then, I have no interest in the hight/weight ratio. As long as you are comfortable and feel healty, who cares at what hight and weight you should be. I'm happy the way I am.

[cococarby]

Thanks for your responses. While I am pretty comfortable with the way I am now, I do catch certain glimpses of myself in mirrors and think "wow, maybe I am too thin." I've gotten downright bony with no curves whatsoever. I would like to fill out just a little bit, to regain some sort of shape. But alas... just as we can't "spot reduce" certain areas of the body, I suppose we can't "spot enhance" either. While I'd love a few extra pounds in my butt and chest, I'm afraid they'd end up in my tummy or thighs. I think I'm going to start weight training more, or maybe take a body scupting class, to gain a little muscle in these areas.

[ddaniels]

I don't think you need to be changing anything. I asked my doctor the same thing. He said there is no set wieght that you should be for anyone. Since then, I have no interest in the hight/weight ratio. As long as you are comfortable and feel healty, who cares at what hight and weight you should be. I'm happy the way I am.

I think that is probably true with the exception of females whose weight gets low enought that they lose their menses. I think that's our bodies way of telling us "enough is enough!" and is good indicator that weight is too low. Many physicians will use that as a cut-off point for weight loss. I'm not saying that's the case with the OP, of course, since she didn't mention that.

I do think it would feel pretty tricky to work so hard to loose weight and then need to gain a bit back. I imagine I would be a little concerned that I didn't inadvertantly start myself back on the path of gaining too much back!

[Gemmafafen]

Two years ago I was in your shoes coco, I was told i needed to gain a few and so I tried to but couldn't handle those few extra and it led to gaining it all back.

If you do decide to get a few lbs back on, make sure its as well planned, controlled and monitored as ur weight loss regime was. Changing ur body weight either way is fiddling with the mechanics of ur body so loosing and gaining should be regarded with the same level of seriousness. Like you souldn't eat less than a cerain amount a day, don't over stuff urself especially w crap. It should be a slow process.

[steph z]

What is your body fat level? Not body mass index, but body fat. I think 22-33% puts you into the healthy category.

I also believe if you feel good, then who is to second guess what you should weigh.

[mammac-5]

Does the doctor say that being underweight at your current level is dangerous or just maybe not fitting into his/her weight table?

Your menu looks yummy at satisfying to me. I wouldn't worry about it. When you mentioned not having curves, though, it occurred to me that you might start doing some weight training. This would add some weight as you gain muscle and also curve you up a bit.

I pray to have your "problem" some day in the future!!

[cococarby]

Thanks Mammac. One of the reasons I went to the doctor in the first place was because I was having trouble sleeping. The bones in my legs, hips, and back start to ache horribly after 2-3 hours of sleeping on one side, so I would wake up a few times during the night in pain and have to turn over. I knew this was obviously a verrrrry bad thing. The doctor said that my weight and BMI are considered underweight, and I need to gain a few in order to get some more "cushion" on my bones to prevent sleeping discomfort. I also can't sit in hard chairs for long periods of time because my "butt bone" starts to ache. I don't want to be bony!! I just want to be fit and trim :) I agree with you that weight training is a good idea. I started going to a 30 minute beginning strength class twice a week. I also plan on consulting a nutritionist to make sure I am I don't have any vitamin deficiencies and I'm getting the right amounts of calories/fat/etc.

[cococarby]

Steph-z: The last time I checked body fat, I think it was around 17%. Is that considered dangerous?

[steph z]

17% is low, but I work with a young, very fit woman whose body fat is 10% (I occasionally bring in the BF scale; my coworkers dread it as most are quite overfat), so not unheard of. I understand that 20-22% is the low end of healthy, depending on your age. I guess whatever makes you feel good, is appropriate.

[black57]

Cococarby, why not up your calories a bit? Eat more snacks and walk a little less. Nuts, avocadoes, cheese...an extra slice of whole grain bread may get your weight up a bit.

[dane]

Coco,
Sounds like you could definitely use a few pounds of muscle added to your frame. Combining heavy (for you) weight training with extra quality calories can help you do this, with minimal fat gain. 17% BF is not "unhealthy" in and of itself; lots of female bodybuilders in their off-season maintain in this range, and I am shooting for 16% myself. Also, adding a few pounds of muscle will NOT make you look like a Ms. Arnold, if you're concerned about that. It will make you look lean and sleek, instead of skinny or bony. :agree:

Sending you a PM. :)

[Kathy54]

Eat more snacks and walk a little less. Nuts, avocadoes, cheese...an extra slice of whole grain bread
I agree!!
From the sample menu you showed, you are still on very few carbs, mostly protien.
I can understand you concern of it getting out of control, but be aware of it, each day and eat everything in "controlled servings" I too feel that at your height, you are underweight.

Good luck Kathy

[cococarby]

Controlled servings is something I know I'm going to struggle with. This is really hard! Before lcing, I used to have a problem with overeating and mindless munching... the other night I justified eating half a jar of peanut butter while watching a movie because I'm trying to gain a few. Now I just feel crappy.
Since night eating is my weakeness, I'm going to try to put the majority of additional calories and carbs into my breakfasts and lunches. For some reason I feel much less likely to overeat during those meals.
I've added 2-4 slices of whole grain bread, doubled my amount of fruit, switched from lowfat to fullfat mayo and sour cream, am snacking on macadamia nuts and I'm drinking 2-3 cups of milk a day. So far the scale is just bouncing between 110 and 111.5. It's strange though, because even though I really WANT to gain some weight, I still feel weird when I see the numbers go up. Maybe I should toss the scale and just concentrat on what I'm eating and the way I look/fit into my clothes.
I have another doctor appt. today, and am going to try to get some more good advice.
Thanks again for everyone's input and support :)

[cococarby]

Yesterday's Menu:

Breakfast: Bowl Pancake (recipe forum), with butter

Lunch: Salad bar on campus... lettuce, turkey, hard boiled eggs, cheddar cheese, olives, marinated mushrooms, sunflower seeds, and lots of caesar dressing, chicken salad w/ pecans

Snack: 2 slices Deep Dish Pizza Quiche (from recipe forum)

Dinner: Pork tenderloin, brocolli, and spaghetti sauce w/ butter and parmesan cheese

Desert: Strawberries w/ sour cream, tall glass of milk

[cococarby]

ooops, ** Spaghetti squash w/ butter and parmesan (not spaghetti sauce)!

[Kathy54]

That menu looks better :)

I'd also like to see some brown rice in there, or whole grain bread.

Yep toss the scales, and eat a huge breakfast it has been proven many times, the first meal is what will help you make it through without the impulse eating during the day and at night.Get a good mix of protien, good carbs in your breaky and some fruit each morning.

Cheers Kathy

[ItsTheWooo]

Typical menu (lately):

B: Protein shake made with Hood 2% Milk

Morning Snack: 3 hard boiled egg whites chopped up and mixed w/ mayo

Lunch: Turkey or roast beef sandwich on lc bread w/ mayo and homemade coleslaw, plus veggies and dip. Sometimes with fruit.

Afternoon snack: Another protein shake or cottage cheese

Dinner: Meat and veggies... I eat a lot of meat (used to work for a meat company). Pot roast, chicken, roast beef, turkey, pork... prepared various ways and pared with salad and veggies such as broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus.. etc.

Late Night Snack: Celery sticks and 3-5 tablespoons of Peanut butter, glass of Hood milk

Some ideas.

Your breakfast sounds really lite, add some fruit & nuts to it.

Cheese makes everything better. Add cheese to your sandwich at lunch. Also, add some flavored seasoned nuts to your veggies and dip.

Replace your late night snack with a healthy dessert such as a yogurt (with fruit & nuts), or something similar.

Basically here's the formula I use. To increase calories if the food is sweet, add nuts. If the food is savory, add cheese *or* some other kind of fatty dairy if applicable. If your body can handle it, you may also add carbs for cals as fruit (sweet) or starches (savory).

[sxy29]

Last year this time everyone kept tellling me I was underweight (115\116 on most days). I actually got a lot of negative feedback which is probably why my self-esteem was in the gutter. I since gained the weight back, and although I am trying to shed about 10 pounds (at the most), I feel the best I ever have. Ironically enough, I am getting more compliments about how good I look, than I ever have. I do work out at least an hour everyday, but I think my self-esteem and confidence is well in tact and people can see that, which obviously helps my appearance. I say go with how you feel. If you feel you are at your best and you are being healthy about it, then who is anyone to tell you different. Afterall, it is your body.

[Lozzz]

I have this exact same problem as Coco at the moment.

I'm 102lbs at 5'5" and still losing weight. My calories average around 1200 and net carbs 25. The doctor's are infact referring me to an eating disorder clinic because of the depression I've got from feeling I have to exercise and dreading it (a whole other story), but I don't feel as if I need therapy on my eating habits. My doctor is very anti-atkins and although I justified my statements backing up Atkins, she simply says the scientific evidence I have been reading about Atkins and safety is purely to sell their way of eating. She intimidated me to the point of making me feel uneducated. When she infact is the ignorant uneducated individual.

But like Coco, I would like to regain a curvacious body and shape rather than straight up and down. I have no bum which has disintegrated the most, no hips, no thighs. I've worked so hard to lose the last bit of fat on my stomach that I'm terrified if I start to eat more I'll gain the weight back there first since that's where I lost it last. I'm in limbo with what to do really. I don't know whether to up my carbs or calories. Or what's easiest to add into my diet to provide me those carbs. I've stopped exercising with weight training and cardio because of the depression I am experiencing from it (explained in some of my other posts), so I can't turn to weights to reshape my body. And I'm scared that I'll just put on fat around my stomach if I start upping my intake. Since I'm still not happy with my podgy stomach, I'm still on minimal calories to rid myself of it.

My family are constantly insulting me which isn't helping my confidence. My mother has started to say that although she doesn't want to hurt my feelings, she's starting to feel embarrassed when being seen out with me because I look anorexic. Now, instead of having low self esteem from being overweight, I'm paranoid that people are glancing in my direction because I'm repulsively skinny. Is my figure really that bad? I admit I currently look emaciated when without clothing, but I was gutted to hear what my mother said.

What I don't understand is, the weight I'm losing, is it lean muscle mass or what? Why are other people stalling and having so much trouble losing weight but I seem to carry on losing when it's not even desired? The last few pounds I've lost, I've noticed my stomach become less jiggly, but I've also lost weight all over my body. I'm generally just skin and bones. The amount of times I've been in tears over this issue the past week is ridiculous, I came away from the doctor's yesterday feeling ridiculed and hopeless with how to tackle this. If anyone has any words on what I've said, I'd really appreciate it.

[Zuleikaa]

You might want to look at the book "Escape your Shape which will help you exercise and strengthen your body according to body type. It's also important to consume enough protein to maintain muscle mass.

Make sure you take adequate supplements or at least a good quality multivitamin and omega oil blend.

After that, don't worry if you're in good health. Perhaps have your skelaton analyzed. You might actually be small boned.

[ItsTheWooo]

I have this exact same problem as Coco at the moment.

I'm 102lbs at 5'5" and still losing weight. My calories average around 1200 and net carbs 25. The doctor's are infact referring me to an eating disorder clinic because of the depression I've got from feeling I have to exercise and dreading it (a whole other story), but I don't feel as if I need therapy on my eating habits. My doctor is very anti-atkins and although I justified my statements backing up Atkins, she simply says the scientific evidence I have been reading about Atkins and safety is purely to sell their way of eating. She intimidated me to the point of making me feel uneducated. When she infact is the ignorant uneducated individual.

Your doctor sounds very unreasonable. Doctors tend to make their patients feel like children; they can't help it, they're used to telling us what to do and being consulted as if they were god. But, only a bad doctor will behave as yours is - completely dismissing your own perceptions simply because she went to med school.

Speaking personally, my own doctor TOLD me to eat low carb. He does tend to do that "condescending know it all" intimidating doctor thing, but he is ultimately a reasonable guy. I told him I think I have glucose problems; naturally he didn't believe me (it's unlikely considering my age and weight... although he knows I used to be fat). He refused to refer me for GTT (he did so tactfully and did not ridicule me like your doctor seems to do). However he did tell me to do a test at home. Well my home test, after drinking 50 grms of sugar, went up to 150 after eating and 2.5 hrs later down to 40. Then he diagnosed me with glucose intolerance and reactive hypo and instructed I am to eat low carb to control my sugar. He knows his stuff.
So your doctor is definitely behind the learning curve; good doctors know that low carb diets are valid and essential for people with insulin/sugar tolerance issues. It’s not some crazy thing they made up out of thin air. If you have the sugar issues others have, you NEED to do this for health.



Regarding the eating disorder thing.
I don’t want to sound like I’m reprimanding you like a child, but I’m a little alarmed that you seem so indifferent to your extremely unhealthy low weight and unhealthy eating habits (eating as restricted as you are is unhealthy). That sends a big red flag to me that something isn’t right. Do you realize how thin 102 pounds at 5'5 really is? I mean, logically, are you aware this is a BIG problem for your health and implies a disruption in mental well being; it’s more than “wanting to look curvaceous” at this point? I know we all have different body types but that is an anorexic weight. I doubt your frame & musculature is naturally that delicate, virtually no one’s is (especially considering your history of weight problems it makes it even more unlikely).
You're almost under 100 pounds and you're a reasonably tall girl. Your present BMI is below 17.5 - anorexia could be diagnosed (assuming you meet the other criteria, such as fear of gaining weight, irrational perception of size/denial of low weight, and amenorrhea). That you have an irrational fear of not exercising is also troubling, which shows you may have the mental part…
Do you still get your periods or have they stopped? Ask yourself honestly, if you doing this out of a compulsive fear of gaining weight, and a perception that you aren’t “thin” yet (or not “that thin” to where you “have to stop”). It sounds like you are on the fence and are in danger of falling over the other side.

Furthermore, do you realize how insufficient 1200 cals and 25 carbs is for a young woman? I am assuming you want to maintain weight since you disagree with your doctor’s diagnosis of eating disorder – so why are you eating so terribly low cal and low carb? The carb thing, ok, if you want to keep it low like that forever fine (but I suggest against it, since I think it is a big reason you are eating so low cal... if you don't INTEND to eat that low cal due to eating disorder, anyway). However the cals must come up. 1200 cals is weight loss eating. This is assuming you even ARE eating 1200 cals, which it's possible you're eating less than that.

No one can tell you you have an eating disorder.
But you should not sit in denial of a problem, either, which is what I think you may be doing. You don’t seem to really consider this a serious issue. Please don't think I'm judging you, because in many ways I’m right with you. My lowest weight was 104, I am your height. I was persisting in restricted eating and weight loss. My problem was that I was terribly scared of maintenance, I had been losing for years (I started at 280!) and I was comfortable in the certainty of weight loss; weight maintenance was an entirely new prospect and it intimidated me. All I knew was comfortable certainty of “empty” and losing; and complete lack of self control (on carbs) & weight gain. Maintenance was like this scary, foreign, impossible thing and I didn’t want to risk it.

Is this why you refuse to eat more and stop losing - fear that you can’t hack maintenance? If so that’s a pretty valid fear, for sure, we always hear the horror stories about people doing all that work only to “relapse” into poor eating when trying to maintain. But you have to risk it. It’s not an option to stay in denial and emaciate yourself.

Is the diet mentality (that you would like to lose and under eat) an afterthought or is it what’s driving you? In other words, do you feel like you NEED to lose weight, like you HAVE to get thinner… or is that in the background to a generalized anxiety about maintenance & fear of relapsing? This is significant. If you feel you aren’t “good enough” and need to keep going, that speaks of a potential eating disorder.

All I can say is, try to analyze yourself and really really be honest. Why are you REALLY doing this? If you stay in denial it will only get worse.


But like Coco, I would like to regain a curvacious body and shape rather than straight up and down. I have no bum which has disintegrated the most, no hips, no thighs. I've worked so hard to lose the last bit of fat on my stomach that I'm terrified if I start to eat more I'll gain the weight back there first since that's where I lost it last. I'm in limbo with what to do really. I don't know whether to up my carbs or calories. Or what's easiest to add into my diet to provide me those carbs. I've stopped exercising with weight training and cardio because of the depression I am experiencing from it (explained in some of my other posts), so I can't turn to weights to reshape my body. And I'm scared that I'll just put on fat around my stomach if I start upping my intake. Since I'm still not happy with my podgy stomach, I'm still on minimal calories to rid myself of it.

Reading this sent a shock of alarm into my heart. I feel so scared for you.
How can you prioritizing losing the “last of your podgy stomach” at 102 lbs & 5’5!? At your weight it’s likely you have almost no fat on your stomach. A perception of having a too-big stomach is very common in eating disordered individuals. Because they’ve emaciated their extremities, and there’s nothing but “the essentials” in the center of our body, it appears too large relative to the rest. Rather than rationally seeing their reflection and saying “oh my god; look how emaciated my arms and legs are”, instead they look and say “oh my god; look how much fat is left on my stomach”.

It’s not that I can’t relate to hating a body part. My thighs are to me what your stomach is to you. Everyone has that one part they fixate on. But it’s in your mind and you must realize that. No one can see your stomach but you. You have to have some kind of self awareness & resulting logical behavior to temper the irrational feelings about your size and shape otherwise you’ll kill yourself. If you have these thoughts, then you have to be a responsible adult and not indulge them. You have a responsibility to yourself and your loved ones to behave in a rational, life-affirming fashion. Continuing to diet at your emaciated size is completely irrational and frankly it terrifies me that you think it IS rational. If you find this impossible to do (balance self esteem about size & a need to be healthy) then I think it’s very likely you have an eating disorder and your doctor is right – you need help to learn how to do it. Because, dear, that’s what an eating disorder is: it’s when your ability to keep “a healthy balance” between self-esteem & rationality about size/shape and healthy, life affirming behavior. The eating disordered person prizes weight and size above EVERYTHING, including her life. It’s an irrational obsession.

Maybe if I approach this logically you’ll understand.
When I was very fat, oh how I HATED my thighs. They were disproportionally fat to the rest of my body. So were my hips. My lower body was a mess. I lost more and more weight.
Then when I got down to 104, I noticed how my thighs and hips melted away. My body stopped producing enough female hormones, and my shape became more pubescent. No longer were my hips and thighs “too large”.
Was I happy, did I think I looked fine? Of course not! I merely started agonizing over how disturbingly large my stomach was. Proportionally, to the rest of me, my middle was like a little chubby child – round and prominent. Isn’t that funny – achieving in my goal of losing my thighs and hips only made me hate something else.

Do you see where I’m going with this? You’ll never think you’re perfect. If you emaciate your thighs, then it will just make it more obvious that your stomach is too big. You have to accept that you are who you are. It’s not an option to emaciate yourself as you are in search of eventually thinking you’re perfectly in proportion. For me I never felt an overwhelming drive to perfection (thank god), my problem was mainly fear of maintenance. So I really can’t advise you on how to get over that. All I can tell you is the logical obvious: You MUST get over it. There is no other option. Period. If you need help to do that, you MUST get help. I think therapy for eating disorder would prove helpful.

My family are constantly insulting me which isn't helping my confidence. My mother has started to say that although she doesn't want to hurt my feelings, she's starting to feel embarrassed when being seen out with me because I look anorexic. Now, instead of having low self esteem from being overweight, I'm paranoid that people are glancing in my direction because I'm repulsively skinny. Is my figure really that bad? I admit I currently look emaciated when without clothing, but I was gutted to hear what my mother said.

When I got to 104, it scared my mother. She was often furious with me, and cursed in my direction when she saw me weighing food and label reading. It was the sort of anger that comes from feeling powerless and scared.
I’m sure your mother is worried about you. She is probably in denial over what might be; she doesn’t want to think about it.

Don’t make this about how you look. It’s about how you feel and how you’re thinking. Your weight, and appearance, is a symptom. It is not the problem.

What I don't understand is, the weight I'm losing, is it lean muscle mass or what? Why are other people stalling and having so much trouble losing weight but I seem to carry on losing when it's not even desired? The last few pounds I've lost, I've noticed my stomach become less jiggly, but I've also lost weight all over my body. I'm generally just skin and bones. The amount of times I've been in tears over this issue the past week is ridiculous, I came away from the doctor's yesterday feeling ridiculed and hopeless with how to tackle this. If anyone has any words on what I've said, I'd really appreciate it.
I admit, I’ve felt this as well. I’ve felt a lot of guilt for having such an easy time not eating and losing when so many others struggle just to not be obese.

But, then I realize, I don’t really have it so easy. My ease staying dedicated to this comes at a price of excessive fears of failure and obsession with success. Others get to eat without tremendous guilt, they get to indulge and enjoy themselves without anything of what I would experience. I don’t want to stereotype all who struggle to lose (some may be impulsive binge eaters, who feel the same way as I do, but just can’t stop themselves). But generally speaking, you and I lose because it is on the cusp of our thoughts every waking moment of the day. Others, having a healthier balance between weight and life, find it easier to “slip up” – taking too much fat at dinner, or a bit of cake for dessert, etc. Is it that we have it so easy – or is it that we struggle as they do, but with something a bit different?

[ddaniels]

GREAT post, Woo. Lots of important and well though out perceptions and recommendations.

[Lozzz]

Thank you so much, ItsTheWooo, for taking the time to type such a detailed reply to my post.

You are spot on with the problem of maintaining. I have recognised that I'm underweight and looking scarily emaciated but I don't know how to tackle it. For example, I don't know what to increase my calories to and at what rate. Or if I need to increase my calories AND carbs. You see, I always thought that increasing my carbs would make me maintain. I was reading this forum and people's posts of them consuming 1200 calories but completely disregarding that they are not as thin as me. This didn't seem to sink in.

At the moment, I don't allow myself any treats. I've cut out coffee, sugar free jelly, low-carb sauces, low-carb bread - anything processed basically.
I feel like if I let myself enjoy food too much, I'll slip back into my old ways. I also cut out processed food in the hope of losing my stomach podge.

I do think I may have a slight problem with my eating habits. I prioritize my stomach over the rest of my body and I'm scared that if I increase my food, I'll gain there first. Will that actually happen? However, I've realised I need to get over this and focus on getting back up to a healthy weight. I just want to do it in a healthy, controlled way - not stuffing my face with sugar alcohols and whatnot. But to be honest, I think the feeling of guilt that would follow from doing that would stop me. But how can I gain weight without it primarily being fat? I've tried putting it on in muscle with the weight training and cycling but my limbs seemed to get skinnier and not leaner. What I'm asking is, can I put on scale weight without turning into a skinny-fat person at the same time? I don't want to gain back a layer of flab all over me, just a little cushioning so I'm not spiky and bony. I noticed today that my ribs are actually starting to show through where my breasts should be. I felt sick realising I'd gone too far and still not feeling content.

I stopped menstruating about 5 months ago. I'm not sure what first stopped them because they seemed to cease even when I was at a healthy weight.
My biggest worry is that I will be left infertile if I don't have a period for a long duration of time.

What do you personally think I should increase my calories and carbs to and at what increments? I feel completely lost and hopeless. I've always been in the mentality of losing weight, and thinking that I need to GAIN weight is proving tremendously hard for me. Weight has become obsessive to the point that it's always on my mind. I'll see someone walk past and instantly compare myself to them. I'll slip into a depression when thinking that if I start to gain weight now, I may relapse and gain everything back in time for Christmas. It's just constantly playing on my mind and I think that is where the therapy I'll be getting shortly may help. Like you said, I can't seem to keep a healthy balance between life and weight loss.

I just want to not feel like having the perfect body is the be-all and end-all to everything. It frustrates me to ask myself why I'm like this but yet other women go about their day without feeling depressed because of their flaws. For me, it dominates my life. Also, to let you know, I printed off your words and have read through them multiple times to keep reminding myself. I've definitely got you to thank for making me realise how serious this is. Thank you.

[Lozzz]

Just bumping this for if anyone could be a star and offer some words of advice after my last post. :help:

The main things I'm uncertain on are:

Will I gain weight back primarily on my stomach, since that's where I last lost it? Or will I gain it back evenly over all my body?

How should I increase my calories? 100 a week? A dramatic increase straight away?

And should I increase carbs, or is that not necessary for my situation?

I want to gain weight back where I look emaciated [collar bone, ribs, etc.] but don't want a flabby tummy back.
I'm very sedentary at the moment so I'm fretting that I'll just turn into a skinny-fat person considering I've stopped all cardio and weight training.

Thanks a ton if anyone replies.

[ValerieL]

Lozz, start increasing your calories - at least a 100 per day, I'd aim for 300 per day extra. At that rate you won't be adding weight fast, you can get used to the extra food. Add nuts, cheeses or other higher calorie foods, they are the easiest to add calories with. Keep your protein high and you should be able to regain some muscle as well as fat, though you will put some fat on, but you need it, so don't be afraid of it.

I know it's hard, but try to stop worrying about your stomach. You can control what you put in your mouth, but you can't control what your body does. It's possible you could lose another 10 lbs and still have the stomach, we can't tell our bodies where to take the weight from. But if you regain some weight, likely you will regain it in the places that look emaciated now.

If you are worried about the skinny-fat thing, start doing a little exercise, but not too much (if that was an issue for you before), if you are eating enough and weight training, you should build muscle and I think you'd be very happy with that result.

Val

[Lisa N]

I agree with Val's advice. You might also want to go back and read again what ItsTheWoo had to say about your stomach only being large in proportion to how emaciated the rest of your body is; in other words, it only looks 'podgy' to you because of how very thin the rest of your body parts are.
If you have stopped menstruating, your body is sending you a clear signal that you have gotten too thin and that your bodyfat percentage is too low.
Will you gain weight back in your stomach? It's hard to say, but no matter how much we would like to, we have no control over where our bodies decide to store our fat and as women we must have a certain amount of it. The best you can do is try to tone the muscles in your problem areas so that they look leaner and sleeker, not try to lose until the fat in that area is gone; as you've discovered already that doesn't work too well as the rest of the body suffers. Some conseling in that area may be helpful to assist you in learning to accept your body, 'problem areas' and all. Noone has a perfect body, not even the most highly paid supermodel. :)
I would increase both calories and carbs using healthy sources of foods such as nuts, vegetables, fruits such as berries, melons and peaches, whole grains and legumes (wild rice, lentils, black beans and such), healthy fats and adequate amounts of protein. What you can try is following OWL recommendations, increase by 5-10 grams increments weekly (along with increasing calories slowly) until you start gaining slowly. Stay away from diet products and use only whole foods.

[ItsTheWooo]

Thank you so much, ItsTheWooo, for taking the time to type such a detailed reply to my post.

You are spot on with the problem of maintaining. I have recognised that I'm underweight and looking scarily emaciated but I don't know how to tackle it.
Hi Lozz,
I was afraid my original post was too emotional and might have put you off; I am glad this is not the case.

I am also glad that you do realize you've went to far and are now very underweight; you sound a lot like where I was before... just so scared of how to eat to maintain and too afraid to really change anything.
For example, I don't know what to increase my calories to and at what rate. Or if I need to increase my calories AND carbs. You see, I always thought that increasing my carbs would make me maintain. I was reading this forum and people's posts of them consuming 1200 calories but completely disregarding that they are not as thin as me. This didn't seem to sink in.

Regarding how to maintain.

The thing about using the carb-ladder atkins-esque model for maintaining, is that it only works when a solid foundation of normal eating is already present. Or in other words, it assumes one is already eating generously from fat and protein. You are NOT. If one has so thoroughly divorced mind from body need as you (and I) had done, increasing carbs incrementally is not sufficient to stop weight loss or restore normal weight.

Lozz speaking from experience here the best thing I can tell you about eating is to start listening to your body . Where you are, in your present state you may not even realize it but your body has very little say over intake. When I was where you are, I thought I was eating “enough”. I didn’t realize the extent of how my mind was controlling the body. Your mind is controlling your body. Your body is screaming for food, you just aren't listening. Only now that I am gaining by eating more freely can I hear my body. I find myself doing what normal people do, and taking signs like emptiness, lethargy, coldness, and weakness as impulses for food intake. Schedules, rituals, and external regulators of intake no longer predominately determine intake. Now, a modicum of control/shape to eating is useful if one tends toward weight problems.
But the degree that you and I employ control of eating is so extreme that we went too far and completely ignored the body. We are split in two to the point where we don’t even recognize hunger or obvious signs of malnourishment.
Much like you, I was genuinely baffled as to why I felt so low all the time. Like you, I was mystified by depression, aching body (joints), palpitations, dizziness, amenorrhea, difficulty perceiving hunger and difficulty feeling satiety after eating (among other symptoms). I ate only to “rules”: laws and rituals determined my consumption; this was safe you see. The body was unruly and not to be trusted, but I knew order was my salvation. Extreme views & methodologies get extreme results. Result? I had so wholly divorced body need and eating, combined with irrational perceptions of what constitutes “adequate intake”, and I couldn’t possibly know… just as you cannot possibly realize all your symptoms come from emaciation and under eating at this present moment in time.

I read about your depression, your amenorrhea, your pain from exercise… dear these are classic signs of wasting from malnourishment. You are eating too little. You’re depressed because this is a classic symptom of low food energy. Energy intake (food) is essential to maintain neurochemical regulation; depression is common in semistarvation. You hurt when you move because you don’t have energy to fuel your body. Your body is eating muscles and the fat left to sustain itself, producing the aches and pains. Unlike when you were heavy, you no longer have the fat stores to compensate so it’s freaking out by shutting down. I read you became amenorrhetic at a higher, normal weight. So did I: I was 145 when I completely lost it. Nutrition status as well as original weight play a role in when you become amenorrhetic; but please do know it is most definitely a food/weight thing. Your body is deteriorating and you MUST start listening to it when it asks for food.

At the moment, I don't allow myself any treats. I've cut out coffee, sugar free jelly, low-carb sauces, low-carb bread - anything processed basically.

Oh I’m sure of it.
It – the fear driven obsession and cathartic compulsion - will get worse the more you hold on.
Right now your intake is dictated by mind-rules: food laws. These make you feel safe. You can only take this many splenda packets. That division is a serving. I looked at food and saw slivers of dividsions. A meal is this many calories, not a bit more. Calories must be divded among the day with a logic, too: breakfast lunch and dinner should be no more than 300 calories each and snacks no more than 150, etc. Everything had an order and a logic.
Do you see where I'm going with this? Your eating is nothing but a cluster of rules and that's why you can't maintain. The more you eat to “rules” the less you condition yourself to listen to body need. In maintenance we must start to listen to the body more, and that means taking a risk and letting go of the rules a little more.

I feel like if I let myself enjoy food too much, I'll slip back into my old ways. I also cut out processed food in the hope of losing my stomach podge.

Oh trust me I know that fear Lozz. I’ve cried over it before. I’ll never forget one night – the first time I realized I had gained – and I just had this overwhelming debilitating sense of weakness. I felt as if my reality were an illusion. It was like an identity crisis.

You just have to be strong and you have to face that fear. IT’s not going to be easy. It will be difficult, but you have to do it. I continue to face it. Like all irrational fears, the more you stare it down, the less power it has. A fear only holds power when it remains unchallenged. That’s how one develops anorexia: instead of breaking out and getting rid of the fear-security blanket, they cling to it tighter, give it more power, and it grows.

You must stop it now before you give it any more power. This will take a strength and fortitude of conviction that, for me, was more difficult than anything about losing weight.

Speaking personally, I transitioned into normal eating in a series of steps, and then a dramatic plunge. Here is what I did; maybe you can find some ideas in here that will help you.

First I did baby steps. At first I was journaling everything, I had strange notions of how much is “enough”, numerous rituals and so on.
The first thing I did was allowed myself to eat more to body hunger (scary for sure), BUT I allowed myself to write everything down in my food journal. This lessened the anxiety of increasing intake tremendously.
Then, when I felt secure enough in the knowledge that listening more to hunger will not produce a total loss of control, I began the arduous task of reducing journaling frequency. For me, eating more BUT knowing about it was much, much safer than not knowing at all (but eating less). It is the fear of a loss of control over my weight that held me hostage; journaling was like “proof” I am conscious of weight/intake. Letting go of the journaling was very difficult.
I started this by reducing journaling to every other day. Then every couple of days. Eventually I felt secure enough to let go of the journaling almost completely. I still journaled and counted sporadically but it was no longer the fear-based compulsion it once was; it was more healthy “what’s going on” type thing.

I continued this for a few months. Losses slowed dramatically but did not stop; I still under ate and erred in favor of “empty”. Eventually when I reached a low of 104 pounds, I realized I had to get serious. I made the decision to eat dramatically more than I had, increasing calories significantly.
This was the hardest part and it was very, very panic inducing. Often times I would eat normal for a few days, start to gain, and then suddenly freak and go back losing it. Then I would get up and start over. This caused me to waver between a weight under 110 for awhile.

After enough time of regaining control after “losing it”, my fears lessened greatly. I then became more confident, and ate more consistently. I maintained a weight a bit over 110 without dramatic “Starts and stops” in eating for a few months.

True I was still underweight, but psychologically the worst was over: I was no longer prisoner to fears the way I had been. I was not and am not totally free yet, but what I have now is like the gentle rainfall in the aftermath of a raging storm. I am out of it.

I am now in the third major step: increasing weight to a normal, healthy level for my individual body. This is a weight where in which I can maintain it with no adverse symptoms of health. This part of my journey is met with more adversity, but it’s not as hard as the initial and intermediate steps. Presently I am 113-115 and now back at the threshold of normal weight. Becoming normal weight again was another psychological battle (I fear this translates into future obesity and that I am now radically “less thin”).

But Lozz, in my experience you can take solace in knowing that the beginning steps are always the hardest. Just as when we first started dieting, those first few weeks (or months) are more difficult than the rest of the journey combined, so it is with “coming back” from having gone to far. Letting go of that safe controlled structure of mind-eating is terrifying. But once you go without it for awhile, you realize the fear is insubstantial and irrational. You realize you are happier and healthier without it. I never feel dizzy, mood is much much improved, I have good muscle tone, I almost always eat when mild hungry (and always when very hungry), I no longer hurt when I sit, joints don’t bother, muscles don’t ache, so on. It’s so much better on this side.

I can’t say for sure that what I did is what you need to do, but I can reassure you that as hard as it is now when you start is as hard as it’s going to be. It only gets easier with time. You are strong to have committed yourself and lost weight as you had: you can do this, too.

I do think I may have a slight problem with my eating habits. I prioritize my stomach over the rest of my body and I'm scared that if I increase my food, I'll gain there first. Will that actually happen?

Speaking personally, the first gains were all muscle.
You and I are inverse in our fat storing, I tend toward the lower body whereas you tend the upper. Coming off of under eating my shoulder was a point. I’ll never forget looking in the mirror and seeing POINTS for shoulders. I don’t know how to describe that, for some reason it struck as significant. The back of my neck was a crag of jutting bones. Just bones everywhere.
At first I only gained muscle; my shoulder became more round and firm, as muscle rebuilt. I noticed more definition of thighs. Not much fat was gained, but simply by eating more protein my muscle started to come back.

I didn’t start to regain fat until I really committed to eating more and gaining weight (i.e. very recent days). In regaining fat weight in addition to muscle I can say that it comes back proportionally. I look a lot better at 114ish this time around than I did before (when my muscles were emaciated from under eating for months). Yes, proportionally more of the fat is stored in my “thighs” (which is my dreaded part).

But I tell myself, I exaggerate the extent of this. Objectively my thighs are not huge like I see them, just as objectively, your stomach is presently emaciated. It helps to continuously remind myself that my perceptions are extreme exaggerations. It also helps to counter these irrational thoughts with reality. There is this one picture I have of myself where I look sickly and emaciated; every time I look in the mirror and become alarmed by how much bigger I am, I just think about that pic and remind myself that where I am now is healthy and normal. In other words, I focus on whats real to take focus off the fear and irrational thoughts that would otherwise predominate. I suggest you make the decision to do the same.

I saw your pics Lozz and trust me dear you do NOT have a podgy stomach. Your hip bones protrude sharply. It is concave. There’s nothing there.
Instead of making the decision to worry about your “podgy stomach” that doesn’t even exist , think about how emaciated you are in general. When I think about my thighs, I counter it by thinking about how my back and chest and arms/shoulders looked, and how I felt before. It’s no contest: I’ll take where I am now, thanks.

Hopefully this advice will help you deal with the fear.
Rationality is to fear what a blade is to cobwebs. Clear the murk, see the truth. Fear keeps us prisoner; cathartic compulsive behavior is a meaningless delusion. You are strong enough to not need this.

However, I've realised I need to get over this and focus on getting back up to a healthy weight. I just want to do it in a healthy, controlled way - not stuffing my face with sugar alcohols and whatnot.

For sure, for sure, no one is suggesting you eliminate the good things about your eating. There are many good habits we have learned from this. We’ve learned how to portion control and to resist eating excessively (which is more than most dieters can say). We’ve learned how to delay food gratification for fitness goal.

Still you are eating very little calories.
Forgive me I forget how difficult it is to know what “normal eating” is when it’s so far away. I take it for granted, now, because I’m so used to eating to body need. Let me try to give you an idea of where to start.

Let me use my old meal as an example.
A previous lunch or dinner, prior to “stopping”, would have been 2-3 ounces lean meat, and a big salad with very low cal dressing or cal free dressing, maybe a small smattering of cheese for a “calcium and fat”. Perhaps you can relate to this?

To improve on that, I don’t go and replace the salad with pasta and the meat with fried chicken :lol:. Instead what I do is make little changes. I increase the portion of meat gradually; first from 2.5-3.5, then 3-4, now 4-5. I start to put reduced fat dressings, and full portions of them, on my salads (this adds a substantial 50-100 calories). I leave more fat on my meat. I put dressings of butter, cheese, and oil on non-salad veggies.

SO you see I’m still eating healthy, but I’ve increased substance of my meals tremendously.

Now, let’s take a snack. My old snacks were basically nothing food: tea, broth, pickles, lettuce with sugarless ketchup, baby carrots, melon slivers, so on.

What has helped a lot is replacing snacks with nibbles of real food. I eat much, much more nuts now. This alone has made a substantial difference in my weight AND nuts are healthy.

Another thing that has helped is to clear a lot of the irrational food phobia I used to have. Like you I had strange notions of “food purity”. Now I realize everything is a choice and there’s good ones and bad ones. Like you I used to think that bread was a total waste. But if you look at the nutrition on a low calorie slice of bread, it’s actually kind of healthy AND an excellent way to make meals more enjoyable & higher in calories. So I started using more bread products, too, and that has helped increase cals.

Basically Lozz what you need to do is take baby steps, gradually increasing and adding on to your diet. You also have to let go of the irrational notions about “food purity” you presently hold. I’m not saying eat like crap, but those rules and absolute black and white thoughts are the origination of this problem. It’s the excessive, fear-based mind that is what we are trying to get rid of, and feeding the “fear” by avoiding ALL treats and anything that resembles enjoyable (and thus “scary”) food is only going to make it worse.


But to be honest, I think the feeling of guilt that would follow from doing that would stop me.

I’m not going to lie; you can expect a lot of irrational feelings.
All I can suggest is you try your best and believe with faith that you will make it through it.

I don’t know if you are religious, but for me, feeling faith that everything will work out and I will be passed this one day was very comforting. They say that religion helps people overcome adversity and desperation, and I can say it did help me a lot. I am not religious myself but simply letting go and admitting I’m NOT okay now and that eventually it will pass and I’ll be stronger for it was a comfort.
But how can I gain weight without it primarily being fat? I've tried putting it on in muscle with the weight training and cycling but my limbs seemed to get skinnier and not leaner. What I'm asking is, can I put on scale weight without turning into a skinny-fat person at the same time? I don't want to gain back a layer of flab all over me, just a little cushioning so I'm not spiky and bony. I noticed today that my ribs are actually starting to show through where my breasts should be. I felt sick realising I'd gone too far and still not feeling content.

Lozz you continue to lose in spite of conditioning because you are not eating enough food.

Strenght training works to build muscle because it encourages the body to destroy proteins, which are then built stronger during reparation. If you aren’t eating enough or resting for the reparation part (which is CRUCIAL) you will only exacerbate the problem by wasting more and more muscle.

You have to know that your view of the way the body workds is wholly irrational. It is classic of eating disorders to feel eating more than ones “allowance” will trigger fat gain and an irrational loss of control. This will NOT happen. I wish I could make you see what I see. I see a fear-controlled young woman, a desperate woman, who doesn’t understand eating won’t make her fat. How much more simple can I say it? Eating to body hunger, from healthful food, is not going to make you fat.

Our bodies have set points for muscle and fat. Under eating deprives the body of enough materials to sustain both muscle and fat. When you eat healthy, your muscle will come back. Lose the irrational diet myth that it’s impossible to naturally rebuild muscle; it’s just that, a stupid myth. All of it will come back the moment you start eating more, particularly proteins. Every bit you gain from normal eating will be healthy body tissue.

My doctor gave me some useful advice. He told me it’s not the weight goal, it’s the eating goal. Weight and body is the result of eating; eating healthy will produce healthy weight. Please be sure you will NOT only gain fat, and at first, you will gain mostly muscle.

I stopped menstruating about 5 months ago. I'm not sure what first stopped them because they seemed to cease even when I was at a healthy weight.
My biggest worry is that I will be left infertile if I don't have a period for a long duration of time.

Mine stopped at 145. It’s not the weight you are, but how you are eating and where you started from. You are eating an extremely small amount of food; under 1000 cals (and now 1200) is ridiculously little for someone your age.

I still don’t have my period back so I can’t tell you much about that. But, from what I read, eventually it does come back when body fat levels and nutrition intake rebounds to a point sufficient for menstruation.

What do you personally think I should increase my calories and carbs to and at what increments? I feel completely lost and hopeless. I've always been in the mentality of losing weight, and thinking that I need to GAIN weight is proving tremendously hard for me. Weight has become obsessive to the point that it's always on my mind. I'll see someone walk past and instantly compare myself to them. I'll slip into a depression when thinking that if I start to gain weight now, I may relapse and gain everything back in time for Christmas. It's just constantly playing on my mind and I think that is where the therapy I'll be getting shortly may help. Like you said, I can't seem to keep a healthy balance between life and weight loss.

I could have written this.

I’ve given you the advice I know of on what worked and works for me, to eat more normally.
As for the fears, as I said before, the best way to deal with them is to stay transfixed on rationality. I repeat to myself over and over that low carb will prevent me from becoming obese again; even if I totally ignore everything but carbs never again will I be out of control as I was. You still have control. It takes CONTROL to eat in a responsible, healthy fashion. Reaffirm this to yourself as much as possible. Confronting an irrational fear disarms it.

I just want to not feel like having the perfect body is the be-all and end-all to everything. It frustrates me to ask myself why I'm like this but yet other women go about their day without feeling depressed because of their flaws. For me, it dominates my life. Also, to let you know, I printed off your words and have read through them multiple times to keep reminding myself. I've definitely got you to thank for making me realise how serious this is. Thank you.

Lozz, thank you very much for your kind words I am so glad my post has helped you.

Speaking, again, personally, for me much of the obsession comes from indulging it. Like all bad habits, it fades when you abstain enough. A few weeks ago I had a revelation. I knew it was a milestone. The revelation? Even if I became fat again, it wouldn’t matter that much. WOW talk about progress. Before I couldn’t imagine living if I ‘slipped”, now I realize weight really isn’t the most important thing.

The obsession with thinness, and signs of it, also weakens with abstinence. At my worst I found emaciation envious and desirable, and not shocking and appalling as I used to. I remember seeing pubescent children and envying their smallness. This is was very embarrassing and shameful and hard for me to even admit.

It’s another affect of the fear and obsession and compulsive behaviors. When something dominates your life, even irrational “symbols” of it which are obviously bad come to be taken as positive. So, in my experience, much of the obsession and fixation on size goes away when you make an effort to rid yourself of it. It is a work in progress; I’m not totally there yet but I’m much better off.

One more thing. Before I close I want to tell you, in all likelihood if you were to see a therapist he would diagnose you as anorexic. You meet all criteria, at least it sounds that way to me. I say this not to depress you but to further remind you that where you are is an urgent matter that must be dealt with. Please don’t fall into the tempting trap of complacency and denial. It’s like any unpleasant, but necessary task: you’ll be glad you did it when it’s behind you.

[Qmass]

Woo,

Thanks for posting all this thoughtful advice (even though it wasn't directed at me!) You have really great insight.

I don't think I am too thin, but your advice about not being afraid to eat is something I need to remember. I want to get to the point where I don't have to write everything down and focus so much on all these details.

Thanks.

[Lozzz]

I have to say, despite this only being a public forum, I am still slightly embarrassed about currently having a problem and people here knowing.
But all of your advice is absolutely amazing. And I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have you to guide me right now.

You've described me exactly. Since I have no appetite, meals are planned ahead in Fitday and eaten at certain times. I have the largest amount of my calories for breakfast so that I'll have all day to naturally burn them off. I don't eat at all after 6:00pm - but never have the hunger pangs to anyway. My ratios have to be 30% protein and no more, no less. I don't have any carbs with my dinner, which is my smallest meal of the day. EVERYTHING is routine and eating has become more of a chore. I weigh every little piece of food too.

But I've also been getting strange cravings yesterday and today. Some times stronger than others. Until now, I've never significantly thought about the foods I used to enjoy - mainly sweet food (I've had occurances but never really felt like I wanted to go back to eating them). My family have been constantly pestering me recently to "eat normal" and "have just one bite of cake if I want it". Now I'm suddenly always thinking of the desserts I loved, and the convenience of pizza. I haven't been eating anything different to spike insulin levels and cravings except a tablespoon of SF maple syrup in tea which I allowed myself last night. And it's gotten to the point that I'm wondering whether my mother might be putting sugar in something I use daily. It sounds ridiculous. Are these cravings just psychological? It's not cravings to binge. It's a strange feeling of absence and hard to explain. Like a lump rising in my throat. Maybe I just never felt like I wanted these foods again until now because my mind hasn't been playing on it so much until now. I don't always get them after eating food, I'll get them while watching TV, etc.

I have increased my calories to 1350 today. I admit I haven't been increasing them as quickly as I should be because I'm still terrified. I can't explain how hard this is proving to be and I'm sure you understand. I've dropped down to a further 98 pounds now and I've drastically become more emaciated over the last few days. Or maybe I'm just noticing the other changes on my body, rather than focusing on my stomach. Something I don't understand is, if my RMR is around 1200 cal and I'm eating 1350 now, how am I still losing weight? I'm aware that the RMR calculators are generalized on the internet and may not be accurate but surely my calculation results would be around the figure given?

I know what I have to do now, and the similarities between me and what you've explained are scary. I wish I had more to reply with to your post - it's so useful and informative but I feel exhausted for words because everything you've said is true and precise as to what I am. At the moment, I can slowly feel myself falling into a deeper depression because I just want to live my life without worrying what I need to plan for meals tomorrow. Or having my family question how many calories and carbs I've eaten for the day, or saying they're worried I'll be dead before Christmas. I feel abnormal. I'm no longer in denial and am actually ashamed by how thin I am at the moment, but just too terrified to up my calories so dramatically. I think I'm halfway there with increasing them at all, and I feel kind of proud that I've realised I have a problem. But I'm mentally tired of it playing on my mind 24/7 and dominating me. I can't go out to socialize without it looping in my head. So even when I involve myself in activities to keep my mind off it, it doesn't work.

I understand that I should let whole foods be the bulk of my calorie increase, but can I allow bars or low carb bread / tortillas? I want to treat myself and maybe have them as a staple in my diet but I feel guilty doing so when people are saying to avoid them. Do you eat any processed food at all? Is the bread you said you've been eating a low carb brand? I also wanted to ask you what calories and carbs you're currently eating, and if you live a busy lifestyle with it. Even though I already find you hugely inspirational and the time you're sparing for an individual you don't personally know couldn't be more respected by me, I guess I'm just grasping for some kind of path to follow and am curious as to everything you've done.

Thank you so much for the support you're dedicating to me.

PS. And thanks for the link you sent me to that video.
I need to install a player to view it on this computer, so I unfortunately haven't been able to see it yet, but I will definitely be getting around to it. It was nice of you to have kept me in mind.

[4beans4me]

Something I don't understand is, if my RMR is around 1200 cal and I'm eating 1350 now, how am I still losing weight?

Because you are LCing, and you are buring fat more efficiently. I hope someone can come in here with some more information on this, I just don't have the time at the moment. I can eat well over my RMR and still lose. I'm the same height as you, no exercise, light housework, and I eat anywhere between 13-1500 calories a day and still lose.

[cococarby]

UPDATE! I started this thread a about a month ago, and just wanted to tell everyone that I have gained a healthy 12 pounds. I can't believe how much BETTER I look!! Not only does my body look better (no longer skeletal, but soft and curvy :) ) but my face looks 200% better... not sunken in, but healthy and glowing! Also, my mood has SKYROCKETED! I am so much happier than before. I am now longer constantly worried/thinking about food/weight/dieting, etc. I feel fantastic. And.... my sex drive has gone thru the roof! (something ive had NO interest in over the last few months) So YAY for gaining weight! Now, if only my favorite jeans weren't getting so tight ;( Thanks for everyone's advice and support!

[Jonahsafta]

WONDERFUL!! ther is such a thing as tooo thin

[ddaniels]

Cococarby- that is absolutely fantastic!!! It just goes to show- if you take good care of your body, your body will take good care of you!!!

[ItsTheWooo]

I have to say, despite this only being a public forum, I am still slightly embarrassed about currently having a problem and people here knowing.
But all of your advice is absolutely amazing. And I don't know where I'd be if I didn't have you to guide me right now.

Thank you!
It might be a comfort to know that’s exactly how I felt almost a year ago when I purged all of the stress I was going through with food and weight. It may be a comfort to know I don’t think of you poorly. When I told everyone I immediately began to regret it and felt as if everyone were treating me like I was really messed up or sick. I don’t know how much was just my paranoia and what was real. It is a comfort, for me, to know that others feel that same self conscious paranoia about sharing problems with eating & weight. Also, if people thought of me the way I feel about you, that’s a big relief (because I know I don’t think less of you at all).

You've described me exactly. Since I have no appetite, meals are planned ahead in Fitday and eaten at certain times. I have the largest amount of my calories for breakfast so that I'll have all day to naturally burn them off. I don't eat at all after 6:00pm - but never have the hunger pangs to anyway. My ratios have to be 30% protein and no more, no less. I don't have any carbs with my dinner, which is my smallest meal of the day. EVERYTHING is routine and eating has become more of a chore. I weigh every little piece of food too.

Yep… eating is totally an unnatural process. That’s why you are obsessive and scared to trust your body.


But I've also been getting strange cravings yesterday and today. Some times stronger than others. Until now, I've never significantly thought about the foods I used to enjoy - mainly sweet food (I've had occurances but never really felt like I wanted to go back to eating them). My family have been constantly pestering me recently to "eat normal" and "have just one bite of cake if I want it". Now I'm suddenly always thinking of the desserts I loved, and the convenience of pizza. I haven't been eating anything different to spike insulin levels and cravings except a tablespoon of SF maple syrup in tea which I allowed myself last night.

Oh I forgot about that part: the ravenous hunger that comes once you start to eat more.

I don’t want to scare you but once you start eating more normally you can expect your hunger to be much higher. This will scare you and may trigger you to go back to restriction. What I would do is restrict for a few days afterward then go back to eating more; eventually I just kind of got over the fear, plus my hunger would normalize more, I would adjust to the new level slowly.

Also, as you experiment with new foods, you can expect blood sugar instability. I learned a lot about what I should be eating. That’s a normal part of the maintenance journey.

Don’t get discouraged by the increase in hunger and the lack of stability in sugar. This is part of the growth and learning process. If you find yourself going back to your old rituals for safety, don’t feel you’ve failed. For example, after a few pound gain I am presently back stopping weight loss (it was too fast and I was too overwhelmed). That’s normal (to go back to security when you feel insecure). However, don’t dawdle there forever and get worse! Stay there as long as you need to to reassure yourself you’re in control. Then when you’re ready to start again, keep pushing yourself to eat normally. For me this worked, and little by little I made progress. I eat mostly to my body’s need now – I eat what I want, when I want (of course I control blood sugar so I can’t eat anything but this is a health necessity).


And it's gotten to the point that I'm wondering whether my mother might be putting sugar in something I use daily. It sounds ridiculous.

I used to get paranoia that people were “touching” my foods. Doesn’t sound ridiculous… I know where it comes from: obsession and the fear.

I forgot that bit of disordered eating. You have to have everything exact, food eating/preparation was a ritualistic, critically important task, like scrubbing for surgery or something. I would FREAK out if my sister nibbled on one of my pre-prepared foods, even only a crumb, because it would throw off my calorie counts. It’s amazing how much progress I’ve made with eating, I eat like a normal person now. I mean I just grab bites of food and I eat to hunger. I almost never weigh anything anymore. This was unimaginable before; I was afraid I would lose control and become obese again.

Are these cravings just psychological? It's not cravings to binge. It's a strange feeling of absence and hard to explain. Like a lump rising in my throat. Maybe I just never felt like I wanted these foods again until now because my mind hasn't been playing on it so much until now. I don't always get them after eating food, I'll get them while watching TV, etc.

I think what you may be experiencing is natural: you are starting to eat normally, so you are getting normal impulses for food. You aren’t used to dealing with that, do you default to what you used to do (which is desire to eat crappy food). I went through a similar thing. My brain had a hard time making sense of eating to be healthy and not lose weight. It was like “okay, I don’t want ot lose weight… but I can’t raid the Chinese take out place, either!”

This is a normal, healthy part of eating: eating for fun. Pure hunger never is the exclusive reason we eat, just like people rarely eat without any hunger present. You need to learn to eat all over again – for fun, for body, balancing both.
However the only way you know how to enjoy food is in the context of a crap food diet. The “eating for fun” part isn’t the problem: it’s the choices you have available to you that are the problem. On your strict diet this wasn’t an option (you simply did NOT eat for fun). Now that you are trying to be healthy, eating to eat is part of it, and you don’t know what to do. Result? You get cravings for old food.

The way I handle it is to change the foods I eat when I get those desires. Instead of eating those keebler elf cookies (which isn’t doing my body or mind any favors)… I make something healthy that’s also tasty. I eat melon slices, a small serving yogurt w/ nuts and berries, a small bowl of high fibre LC cereal (with nuts and berries), apples with PB, diet cocoa, carrot sticks, a small piece of chocolate, a home bakes pastry (LC/sugar free)… basically I eat something “fun” that is wholesome. But sometimes I will have a bite of cookie or brownie because I felt like it..

That’s part of normal eating. Sometimes you eat just to eat. Sometimes you decide you want some of the cookie instead. The most important thing is not what you’re eating but why. It should always be done with the intent to nourish yourself. We think of physical health when we hear the word “nourish” but we also nourish ourselves emotionally with food. Because food is an important part of physical health most food choices should be wholesome food, as this is most nourishing… but if you are afraid to choose non-wholesome food, then it’s not so nourishing. Understand what I mean?


If I have not described what you are experiencing, and you are feeling increased physical hunger that’s a separate issue (and one I also experienced with normal-eating). If you want me to talk about why we get an increase in physical hunger coming off restriction (what you can do about it & what it will feel like emotionally), I will gladly. However if you are not experiencing this I won’t waste time talking about a problem you don’t have .

I have increased my calories to 1350 today. I admit I haven't been increasing them as quickly as I should be because I'm still terrified. I can't explain how hard this is proving to be and I'm sure you understand. I've dropped down to a further 98 pounds now and I've drastically become more emaciated over the last few days. Or maybe I'm just noticing the other changes on my body, rather than focusing on my stomach. Something I don't understand is, if my RMR is around 1200 cal and I'm eating 1350 now, how am I still losing weight? I'm aware that the RMR calculators are generalized on the internet and may not be accurate but surely my calculation results would be around the figure given?

I definitely understand that terror. I know what you are feeling. It’s one of those things where you really can’t know how difficult it is till you actually DO it. Then when you’re in it, it’s like this overwhelming flood of every negative emotion pertaining to food and weight.
When I was where you are, I often visited disordered eating forums for support and reassurance. I reasoned that even if I didn’t have a real eating disorder they could understand what I felt (I was kind of in denial; maybe I still am… I don’t even know if I ever “had a problem”). When they would give me support for eating more normally, I felt really guilty and ashamed. I was torn between feeling “guilty” for it being hard (everyone eats normally – how dare I have such a problem with this), and “guilty” for it being so easy (most were much sicker than I could ever fathom; it was very guilt-inducing to be given support for normal-eating from a severe anorexic). I don’t know how to explain what that experience was like; I suppose it was like being totally conflicted, torn into two, and trapped because no matter what I did I knew I was gonna feel bad. I suppose that was what I was feeling inside: guilt for eating, guilt for having difficulty eating. That battle raged in my head all the time – I was so distracted by guilt that I couldn’t even validate my struggle.
Anyway I just want you to know that you should be proud of what you are doing. What you are experiencing is real and valid and you have every right to be proud of yourself. Right now, the fears may be too strong and you really can’t feel it. Right now you may be torn in between feeling guilty for eating so much and guilty for not eating enough. One day you will look back and realize what a tremendous thing you’ve done, and you will fully appreciate how much strength everything about your journey to healthy weight & healthy eating required.


Regarding RMR. RMR is the metabolic rate of your body when doing absolutely nothing. Your total metabolic rate is RMR plus activities. RMR is significantly less than your metabolism. BTW that RMR reading sounds too low – most likely the calculator you are using is designed for normal-weight individuals, making the formula useless for one who is very underweight. It’s sort of how when I was super obese those calcs would tell me I needed to eat like 4000 cals :lol:. They are designed for people in a normal weight range and aren’t useful when you are an extreme deviation. 1200 cals is very very low for a girl your age, and 1350 is too.

Being underweight makes you “hypermetabolic”. When bodies lose lots of tissue from say, disease or trauma (e.g. fire, starvation), the metabolism increases dramatically. This is because the body has to rebuild lots of lost tissues which requires more energy and materials (from fat, protein, and sugar). You will find you may need to eat a substantial amount of food just to put on weight in a meaningful amount of time. Don’t overwhelm yourself; it’s good that you are making small increases in intake and you should be proud. Then again, that’s something to consider if you feel yourself irrationally worrying that
you’ll start to gain weight on 1350 cals.

I know what I have to do now, and the similarities between me and what you've explained are scary. I wish I had more to reply with to your post - it's so useful and informative but I feel exhausted for words because everything you've said is true and precise as to what I am.

Thank you.
I also want to say, thank you for allowing me to help you. This is giving me closure, somehow. By speaking with you, helping you with my past experiences, I feel as if I am validating a part of my life that I refused to validate for a long time. In doing so, I move further to closing that door and moving toward progress and growth into natural, normal eating.


At the moment, I can slowly feel myself falling into a deeper depression because I just want to live my life without worrying what I need to plan for meals tomorrow. Or having my family question how many calories and carbs I've eaten for the day, or saying they're worried I'll be dead before Christmas. I feel abnormal. I'm no longer in denial and am actually ashamed by how thin I am at the moment, but just too terrified to up my calories so dramatically. I think I'm halfway there with increasing them at all, and I feel kind of proud that I've realised I have a problem. But I'm mentally tired of it playing on my mind 24/7 and dominating me. I can't go out to socialize without it looping in my head. So even when I involve myself in activities to keep my mind off it, it doesn't work.

I know. Most of my day was spent making food or worrying about it. It was like being in prison.

Please don’t feel too bad; that could just make you want to depend on this more. I’m glad you have pride that you are owning up to this. The frustration you feel is natural. You want this to be over with. I know that well. It will be, but like losing weight, it is a long process. You don’t wake up one day “cured”. You slowly, transition to a point where you suddenly realize you are healthy enough to advise a girl who is where you were a year ago. 
You’ll get there, but it will take time. For now, focus on what’s real, what’s positive. When we were losing and had SO far to go, if we told ourselves the goal was so far away we would just give up and “cheat”. Indeed, MOST dieters do this; we did not because we remained transfixed on the goal. It would be too hard with this mentality; we had a different mentality of loving everything about losing weight. We focused on all the little things in the present. We took signs like clothes fitting better and meeting “minigoals” as motivation to continue. They were very encouraging and we loved it.

That’s what you need to do now. Every time you have a little “milestone” growth moment, focus on it. This will encourage you to continue. Give yourself non-stop positive reinforcement for healthy eating. Love the muscles you grow, how much better you feel, your new strength, your thick plush skin.
Because, if you focus on how far away the ultimate goal is, you will slip deeper into this. Most people with these problems never come out of it for that reason. It’s just like having poor eating habits and being overweight. People fail to lose weight because they either really don’t WANT to change or because they discourage themselves with self-destructive thinking patterns. Recovering from disordered eating is very similar. It requires both a real desire to want to not be this way, and avoiding discouragement & defeatist thinking patterns like the plague.
It’s actually very similar to losing weight from obesity. You and I, having made a transition from poor eating, have an advantage over the average person who develops dysfunctional eating. We already know how to change our lifestyle; the average ED person does not. We know how to focus on a goal and persist in meeting it even when all our support structures are more or less evaporated.

You will do this. It just requires a bit of time.

I understand that I should let whole foods be the bulk of my calorie increase, but can I allow bars or low carb bread / tortillas? I want to treat myself and maybe have them as a staple in my diet but I feel guilty doing so when people are saying to avoid them.

You can allow yourself whatever you want.
That’s the thing you have to get: there are no rules and boundaries. There are only choices. The choices you make should be out of self love. You should eat to nourish yourself. Like I said earlier, self “nourishment” is more than perfect nutrition. It’s about tending to your true needs; not suppressing them by eating crap compulsively, it’s not about focusing them by becoming too thin and eating really weird.

If you enjoy these products, and you feel good eating them, by all means include them in your diet! It’s just food .
There are some people on this forum who really don’t get that. They think nutrition is the most important thing in the world. They freak out over transfat or carbs or whatever they are obsessing on. These people are not mentally healthy, likely have some kind of eating disorder themselves, and you would be well served to remember that when reading some of the posts here. Even now when I read some of these posts, I just tell myself that isn’t a healthy attitude/behavior with food – it’s abnormal to think like that. I keep a balance here, by remembering how the rest of the world eats. True most people eat indifferently which causes problems… but somewhere between obsession and indifference lies what’s best for us  .

At this point I want to let you know that right before my lowest I had to leave the forum. I was not healthy enough to cope with all the disordered eating attitudes (and encouragement for them) that are par for the course on a diet forum. Here you will read a lot of talk about eating very low calories, obsessive compulsive tracking of food, crash dieting, neurotic obsessions with food purity, so on. Now this can help if your goal is weight loss but if your goal is to just eat normally and maintain a healthy weight, it’s poisonous. Naturally all that just made what I was struggling with more intense and so I elected to leave. I am glad I did; it helped a lot to be away from the obsession. I don’t have a problem with it now, because I have reached a place where I am not consumed like I was. If you find that it is too hard for you to come here, because it makes your thoughts/feelings worse, then please do take a break. Speaking personally this helped tremendously in achieving normalcy with food.

Do you eat any processed food at all?

Where I am now I don’t really categorize food as much. So when you ask if I eat “processed food”; I would have to reply I do but I don’t think of it that way. I don’t see “categories and boundaries” in my food selection the way I used to.

But yes, I do eat processed food. I try to make choices that are healthy, but I don’t obsess. For example, today I ate scrambled eggs, turkey bacon, and cheese for breakfast. For lunch I was busy and merely had some nuts (1.5 oz). For dinner I had a lot of salmon and sour cream, asparagus, carrots, and melon.
I ate “processed foods” as splenda, turkey bacon.
Yesterday processed foods I ate were cocoa mix, splenda, sugar free jam, and protein bars. But I also had a huge salad, and other healthful things.

So you see it’s not about “categories” and “rules” but trying to make good choices. I don’t anguish if I eat a protein bar, I don’t even think much of it at all. It’s just food, and I made a choice. It was a choice at the moment because I am busy, I want to eat something that tastes like a protein bar, and it will nourish my body properly (by providing fat, vitamins, minerals, protein, and keeping sugar stable).

It’s hard for me to really explain the difference between eating the way I used to eat, and the way I do now. It requires a shift in mental perception that can only come from being more eating normal. You stop looking at foods in black and white terms. You start making choices , not because you have to, but because you want to. You do it because the food tastes good, because you are hungry, and because it will make you healthy and feel good.
This is the first time in my life I can really say that. Even when I was fat my food choices were not choices made out of health and self love, but out of physical and emotional needs (and fears).

Is the bread you said you've been eating a low carb brand?

I eat store brand reduced calorie bread most of the time; but I also eat the low carb brand.
They are pretty similar in carb counts except store brand is way cheaper and usually also lower cal (which is helpful for keeping control of weight).

I also wanted to ask you what calories and carbs you're currently eating, and if you live a busy lifestyle with it.

I really don’t count anything anymore. My lifestyle is about average. I do no formal exercise but I go to school and work at lightly physical job for about 25 hrs a week (cashiering; requires me to stand for hours and lift heavy things). I make an effort to do the more physical option if given a choice. For example, if I have to go to the bank I will walk to the branch 20 blocks away instead of going to the one near me, or taking a car.

Part of becoming eating normal, for me, means listening to my body mostly; not a food journal. It was important to me that I make this a totally natural process. I am glad I made the decision to wean myself off of counting. This feels so natural to me now. I find it very easy to control my weight simply by listening to my body; I know when I’ve under eaten, over eaten, when I’m losing and when I’m gaining. It requires effort to take myself out of natural maintenance of my weight.

Some people do find a very organized, analytical approach to maintenance is ideal. Lynda (upthehill) is a very successful TDC maintainer who is famous for her precision in tracking energy in & energy out balance even in maintenance. However, for me, given my temperament and personal history I find this a mistake. It had to be a natural process for me. I couldn’t sustain what she does; either I would become miserable and stop or I would make my tendency to disordered eating worse.

Even though I already find you hugely inspirational and the time you're sparing for an individual you don't personally know couldn't be more respected by me, I guess I'm just grasping for some kind of path to follow and am curious as to everything you've done.

Thank you so much for the support you're dedicating to me.

PS. And thanks for the link you sent me to that video.
I need to install a player to view it on this computer, so I unfortunately haven't been able to see it yet, but I will definitely be getting around to it. It was nice of you to have kept me in mind.
No problem at all,
Thank you for allowing me to help you. You in turn are helping me, by giving me a sense of relative growth which gives me closure.

I hope this has helped and please feel free to contact me if you have anything at all you want to ask or talk about.

[ItsTheWooo]

UPDATE! I started this thread a about a month ago, and just wanted to tell everyone that I have gained a healthy 12 pounds. I can't believe how much BETTER I look!! Not only does my body look better (no longer skeletal, but soft and curvy :) ) but my face looks 200% better... not sunken in, but healthy and glowing! Also, my mood has SKYROCKETED! I am so much happier than before. I am now longer constantly worried/thinking about food/weight/dieting, etc. I feel fantastic. And.... my sex drive has gone thru the roof! (something ive had NO interest in over the last few months) So YAY for gaining weight! Now, if only my favorite jeans weren't getting so tight ;( Thanks for everyone's advice and support!

That's so GREAT cocoarby!
I'm kind of jealous lol :)

Glad to hear you are doing so much better now :)

[black57]

Cococarby, time to get a new pair of favorite jeans, methinks. I am glad to hear about your gain.

[cococarby]

Thanks guys! I have to admit though that it was a long hard struggle to get here. After successfully losing weight, the notion of gaining PURPOSELY was absolutely terrifying. Even though the sane part of my mind knows that gaining will make me look and feel better, there is still that little part that hates seeing the numbers go up and the clothes feeling tighter. But once I was there, that little part just kind of went away.
Actually, one thing that helped was reading this story in Us Weekly magazine about celebrities that were once painstakingly thin or are now too thin (think Mary-Kate Olsen, Lara Flynn Boyle, Terri Hatcher, Kate Hudson) and compared them to pictures where they were a few lbs heavier. I couldnt believe how gross they looked in the skinny pictures and how absolutely gorgeous and 100 times better they looked in the "healthy" pictures. No one likes a walking skeleton.

[Jonahsafta]

Coco.youve done well!

[JustAGirl]

if you still have your menses i'd say you're ok.

[Anleigh]

Like this post. I love your Maintenance section. I'm quite a bit older than most of you; probably old enough to be your Mother. Two years ago I let my weight drop to 91 pounds and everyone was so worried about me. I really looked rough. I have really worked hard on becoming a better eater. I try now to stay between 102- 105 pounds. I'm 5'2", very small boned, and a Granny. You really can become too thin and at any age.

[cococarby]

Just thought I'd update you guys... since I started this thread on September 2nd (about 5 1/2 months ago) I've gained roughly 15 pounds. Everyone says I look so much healthier and better, but my mind is having a lot of trouble adjusting to this new body. I know that I was underweight before and now I am more in the normal range, but I'm having a really hard time dealing with it. I'm really confused on how I should feel and sometimes even find myself longing for my thinner days... these last few days have esspecially been a struggle because I went to a wedding and had to buy 2 new outfits because I couldnt fit into any of my clothes. I've gone from a size 0 to a size 6. At the beginning of all this I only wanted to gain 10 pounds... now I'm feeling like a failure =( Not quite sure what to do or think...

[cococarby]

C'mon... anyone there for some support or advice?

[JustAGirl]

coco,
you are 5'6", 115 and you wear a size 6?
just making sure that wasn't a type

[Kristine]

I've struggled with this, and IMO, the best way to learn to accept yourself at a normal, healthy weight is to start doing things to be proud of. Honestly, did being underweight make you the kind of person other people would consider a good role model? Were your relationships better? Was it a true accomplishment that got you closer to your real dreams, whatever those are? Was it worth the relative insanity, instability and weakness? Do you think anyone around you really cares whether or not you're the skinniest? My answer was a firm "no".

Do some things that get you more "in tune" with your body and teach you to appreciate it for what it does, not whether or not it comforms to the ridiculous heroin-chic standard. Strength train. Do some modest cardio - not penance for eating, just normal 20-minute cardio sessions. Take up a sport or a hobby. Try yoga. Start teaching yourself something you've always wanted to learn, like gardening, cooking, or something else cool.

Generally, you have to replace the eating-disordered mentality before it will go away. It will feel wierd because it'll be a triangle of you, good feelings, and bad feelings. Eventually, the bad feelings will take a leave of absense.

It hope that makes some sense; it's a long journey and that's basically what's made the difference for me. :rheart:

[ddaniels]

I heartily agree with everything Kristine said!

[cococarby]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice, Kristine. I would love to take up more hobbies, but I'm in my last semester of college, so my schedule is pretty full, and pretty routine. The only thing thats different now to me is the way I look in the mirror.

Also, JustaGirl-- I havent changed my stats. I currently weigh about 125 pounds (on a good day).

I just wish I didnt look at older pictures and long for the way I used to look. I have voiced this concern to a few friends and family members with the unanimous response that I will be under close watch NOT to get back that way.
I wish my eyes could see what they do. I wish I could fix my brain!!

[ddaniels]

It can really take awhile for our brains to stop playing the old "I'm too fat!" fears! In the meantime, while you are waiting for your brain to catch up, you can minimize your distress by doing a few things to shift your focus. Stop looking at those old pictures of yourself, if you only end up feeling worse when you do. In fact, really limit your time looking at your self in the mirror. Also limit (or totally eliminate) looking at magazines, like Shape, etc. that preach a body dissatisfaction message. Also recognize that if you are under a lot of stress, for example from school or whatever, your stress will more than likely manifest itself as negative body thoughts. Weird, but that's the way it works. The more stress you are under, the more likely you are to criticise your body. So, when you start feeling really bad about your body, take that as a clue that you are probably feeling stressed or distressed about something else, and be extra kind to yourself instead of bashing on your body. Also, if you have clothes that no longer fit, because they are sized to fit your less healthy body- get rid of them!!!! Treat yourself to clothes that fit better, and maybe also treat yourself to doing something nice for another area of your body instead, like your nails or hair. Making peace with our bodies is a process that takes time!

[ItsTheWooo]

Just thought I'd update you guys... since I started this thread on September 2nd (about 5 1/2 months ago) I've gained roughly 15 pounds. Everyone says I look so much healthier and better, but my mind is having a lot of trouble adjusting to this new body. I know that I was underweight before and now I am more in the normal range, but I'm having a really hard time dealing with it. I'm really confused on how I should feel and sometimes even find myself longing for my thinner days... these last few days have esspecially been a struggle because I went to a wedding and had to buy 2 new outfits because I couldnt fit into any of my clothes. I've gone from a size 0 to a size 6. At the beginning of all this I only wanted to gain 10 pounds... now I'm feeling like a failure =( Not quite sure what to do or think...

Hi Cococarby,
I started making a concentrated serious effort to gain at 112 (5'5 height) to 117. This happened around the holidays, and, with all the food around I lost control a bit. I wound up over 120 (much of it water bloat from eating but still very distressing). I could not handle it and lost weight. At a point I went down to 112 again (but, as with my high weight, much of this was water loss from not eating much at all). Right now I am 115 when my body is holding a "usual" amount of water (not too over or underfed). I'm heavier than I was but thinner than my "highest".

So I am hardly the person to give advice here, since ultimately, I just couldn't stand the way I felt and lost weight.

But if I were to advise someone to do what I think would be the *right* thing...
I would tell you to focus on eating behavior and not size. Be honest, totally and completely honest. Is this weight gain the result of NORMAL eating, or are you over eating/binging? If you are just eating normally, then I would suggest you not lose weight and work on body acceptance. If you were binging or over eating, then I would say it is acceptable to try to lose weight but *don't* go and lose down to your too-thin size because of fear.
The focus of our behavior should be on how we are eating, not what we weigh. The rest takes care of itself.
Make sure you are eating enough calories, your behavior is normal, and you are eating healthy foods that make your body feel good. If you can say you are doing these things, then you are on the right track.

[ItsTheWooo]

I've struggled with this, and IMO, the best way to learn to accept yourself at a normal, healthy weight is to start doing things to be proud of. Honestly, did being underweight make you the kind of person other people would consider a good role model? Were your relationships better? Was it a true accomplishment that got you closer to your real dreams, whatever those are? Was it worth the relative insanity, instability and weakness? Do you think anyone around you really cares whether or not you're the skinniest? My answer was a firm "no".

Do some things that get you more "in tune" with your body and teach you to appreciate it for what it does, not whether or not it comforms to the ridiculous heroin-chic standard. Strength train. Do some modest cardio - not penance for eating, just normal 20-minute cardio sessions. Take up a sport or a hobby. Try yoga. Start teaching yourself something you've always wanted to learn, like gardening, cooking, or something else cool.

Generally, you have to replace the eating-disordered mentality before it will go away. It will feel wierd because it'll be a triangle of you, good feelings, and bad feelings. Eventually, the bad feelings will take a leave of absense.

It hope that makes some sense; it's a long journey and that's basically what's made the difference for me. :rheart:

Kristine,
Thank you for this.

Recently (I wrote this in my journal) I have come to the conclusion that I value skinniness above all else. In other words, I would rather be uglier, be perceived as such, feel physically weaker, etc than be heavier. I value thinness so much that objectively undesriable signs of unhealthy skinniness are desirable in my mind (like that feeling of coldness and dead lethargy, or the "pain" of knocking bones too bear). It has nothing to do with body dysphoria, that I don't realize I am skinny now, or that my natural weight is not skinny and I actually look more healthy and attractive heavier. I know I am thin now and I do look better a bit heavier. I just don't care. I want to be skinny, skinny as possible. I can barely stand the body I have now and would love to get to 104 again... or even lower.

I think I value skinniness because I associate "fat" with all these irrational thoughts. I think fat makes me weak, lazy, gluttonous, guilty. Thinness makes me feel stronger, more productive, less wasteful, clean. It makes me feel so so safe. It has so little to do with wanting to be more attractive; if it was about looks at *all* there is no way I would be under 125 lbs because my body just looks worse at those weights.

How do I stop thinking this way about skinniness? I think if I learn to just not associate weight with *everything* in life that is either good or bad I could accept a normal weight and healthy eating patterns.

Does it go away as you do all those self-empowering exercises and thoughts? Or did you have to actively tell yourself that weight was a neutral attribute?

[cococarby]

DDaniels-
Thank you. I know you are completely 100% right. A big part of this problem is surrounding myself with people, images, and pictures that promote unhealthy weight. But like I'm said, Im in college and it seems like everywhere I turn I see a waif with a cigarette in one hand and a diet coke in the other. Now I know that there are more "normal" people walking around, but, of course I only seem to notice the stick thin girls...
As for the clothes that don't fit anymore... you hit that on the head. Its probably the WORST part about this. I hate hate that I can't wear my favorite jeans that I've worn practically every day for the last year and a half. And yes, I've gotten new jeans... but I feel like they are my failure pants because they're all I can wear now. Also, after I had maintained my weight for almost 2 years, I gave alot of my larger sized clothes to charity. Ooops...
I really appreciate your post and will fully consider everything you wrote.

ItsTheWoo...
I would tell you to focus on eating behavior and not size.
Well here's the deal, it actually started during "interview season." Im graduating in may, and during Fall semester dozens of companies came to campus for interviews. I probably went out on about 20 company dinners by the time all of this was over (it lasted about 3 months). At these events I decided that I didnt want to look like a meek, picky little eater that attracted suspicions. I mean, sometimes when at a restaurant with few carb friendly options, drastically altering my order and avoided certain foods like the plague... i could see why a stranger would suspect I had an eating disorder. And I wouldnt want to hire someone with an eating disorder, would you?? So I decided not to be picky. Every dinner always included dessert... so thats how it kind of began. Once I tasted sweets (my downfall) after 2 years without, all the cravings came back. I was usually really good during the days, but would prbably binge on sweets about twice a week at night. That all stopped about 3 weeks ago.
But I will say that I'd rather be 15 pounds heavier with a job (YAY ME!!) than my old weight and unemployed...

[Jonahsafta]

Coco..just a note of encouragement....yes there is such a thing as too thin..this weight business has great mind games attatched to it.....please let someone in real life help you sort them thru...BTW I am in business with 2 incredible women..
powerful, creative and talented successful women...two of us
are working with eating disorders in our personal life....
low carb eating keeps mine at bay..my partner is still searching.
So no having an ED doesnt disqualify us from life...:)

[ddaniels]

Coco...I really understand what you are saying about the extra pressures of the college environment. Professionally, I am a counselor working in a college counseling center, and much of my time is spent working with young college women with eating disorders. It can be a very high stress and chaotic environment, where you are surrounded by very unhealthy messages. One of the hardest things in getting over an eating disorder is the feeling that you are going to totally lose control. And, if control = thin, then "out of control" must equal fat. In trying not to look like you had an ED in front of your prospective employers at all those dinners, you found yourself in a place where you felt you HAD to give up your control.(although perhaps you didn't, but I understand why you felt that way.) One of the most important things I emphasis with women who are trying to regain their weight from an eating disorder, is that it is extremely important to regain their weight slowly and in a very controlled and thoughtful way. That way they learn they can be "safe" at this new weight, and they don't need to freak out that the weight gain is now out of their control, like a run away train, and they are just going to keep gaining and gaining and not be able to stop. But, the fine line between healthy control and eating disordered unhealthy control can be tricky and a bit hard to sort through. We want to learn to be mindful of what we eat, but not afraid.

Anyway, I'm sending :rheart: to you. I have a very soft spot in my heart for college women who are struggling with this issue!

[cococarby]

Ddaniels,

I want to deeply thank you for the time you have taken to write me and the encouragement you have given me.

And yes, I do believe the main issue with me (and with all eds) is about control. I have never been anorexic. I grew up with a family that loves eating and cooking, and I love experimenting with new flavors, foods, and recipes. I have always been a good eater. So it was never control in the since of not putting anything into my mouth. Before I came to college I weight around 120. Then the beer, late night pizza, vending machines etc... caused me to go up to about 150. I felt awful because I could not "control" what I was eating. I ate when I wasn't hungry all of the time. I ate while I watched TV and before I knew it, a whole can of Pringles, gone. This was my loss of control.
When I started to eat low carb, I felt in control for the first time again. This way of eating taught me to have 3 balanced meals a day, with healthy snacks in between. I was eating more vegetables and healthy protein than I ever had before. I never ever felt deprived and loved seeing the looks on people's faces as I continued to lose weight while scarfing down bacon, steak, etc.
Then I really got addicted to the control aspect. For example, I had to eat lunch at the exact same time every day. I usually ate the exact same thing every day. For one period of time, I was eating the same turkey wrap and hard boiled eggs everyday for lunch. My eggs had to be chopped a certain way. My wrap needed to be placed a certain way on my plate. And most importantly, I needed to be doing this ALONE. Well that kind of signaled to me that this was going to far. I made on appointment with a counselor at school. I explained to him that food ruled my mind. I was so obbsessive about meal planning and I knew that it was distracting me from more important things in life.
So after that I eased up, a lot. And subsequently feel completely out of control. It seems like my eating is all or nothing. With low carb food, Im fine. But I can never just eat one cookie, or one slice of bread. It sets me off into the "well, ive already blown it" mindset, which leads to binging, which leads to complete loss of control, which leads to self-loathing. Luckily, that hasn't happened in a long time.

[ddaniels]

Coco- it can be hard to find that healthy balanced place in the middle! I've had to really sift through what that looks like for myself over this past year of loosing weight. I think that your pendulum has swung wide in two opposite directions- too much control and not enough control. Personally, I think this is actually a kind of healthy progression, because it is giving you information about yourself and what you want your boundaries to be. You've learned from experience what you don't want things to look like, where eating is concerned, so now you are a whole lot wiser about what you DO want things to look like. Pat yourself on the back!!! Really, you have a lot to feel proud of because you are trying to take the best care of you that you know how to do, which means working to bring yourself back to the middle, when you discovered you'd gone too far out on the edges.

So, what to do now? If it was me, I'd start by putting some structure back into my life- like starting out with maybe a plan for my meals for the day or the week. But, I'd make sure I didn't do anything too restrictive or legalistic, and I would also make sure I put in foods that I found pleasurable- but at this point- pleasurable foods I felt like I wouldn't go out of control with. One of my nutritionist friends makes sure she eats a little chocolate every day- it's her way of keeping the fun in food but also feeling like she can be in control of the fun. If you find yourself getting too obsessive with the structure, then force yourself to mix things up a bit- turn that wrap to the other side of the plate! There truly is a healthy middle place for you, and you'll need to define how that personally looks for you, which will probably take some trial and error. You know your weight should probably not drop below where it is now, and it's ok to set a reasonable upper limit for your weight as well. Within that range, your weight will stabilize at the place it likes the best when you eat in a reasonable- but not legalistic- way.

The other thing I would suggest, is to do what you need to do to have opportunities to relax and get some distance from life's anxieties. That can be hard in college, with so many deadlines and tests, papers, etc. But, the more relaxed you are, the less you'll get pestered by weight related anxious thoughts. Having healthy fun- with LOTS of opportunities to laugh- is one of the very best things you can do for you!

[nedgoudy]

As long as you aren't
binge ing and purging
or excessively
compulsive about
your weight and
weighing all the time,
I would say you do
what you want. Screw
the Dr.

You could probably eat
more meat though,
and workout with
weights and increase
your muscle mass.

That would put
HEALTHY weight on
you, but I wouldn't
just eat more
to put on fat.

Congratulations on
reaching your goal
weight! :wave:

[ImOnMyWay]

Lozzz--I've never been in your situation (being underweight!) but...lots of "98 lb weaklings" turn to bodybuilding to gain weight. I don't know what it is about bodybuilding that's making you depressed? I always feel empowered when I finish that kind of workout.

Maybe you could substitute a different eating regiment than LC, say, Body for Life? That way, you could feel you are in control of your body/destiny and still gain weight by adding muscle. The program recommends you eat 5-6 small meals a day; 3 whole foods meals and 3 low fat, high protein shakes would do it. If you pack on some muscle, that might add to your self-esteem. But in order for this program to work, you MUST eat enough protein...again, preferably 5-6 times a day. You gotta feed your body plenty of protein to add muscle. I think the easiest way to do this must be adding those shakes (which you can buy in tetra packaging), or protein bars..which makes it much easier than trying to eat 6 whole food meals/day.

Go to the Body for Life website and see some of these before and after pictures...they're really inspiring!

http://bodyforlife.com/

Perhaps in addition to changing your regimen, some psychological counselling would help. This would be totally confidential between you and your counsellor. That might help.

[Jonahsafta]

There really is uch a thing as being "underweight" please be careful.

[Analog6]

Your BMI s only 18.7, which is technically underweight. 120 lbs would bring you up to 20 which right on the low end of 'healthy weight'. But most important is how you feel. Are you tired and lacking energy? Do you bones show through the skin? Do you look emaciated? Only you can decide.
Keep working out and maybe enjoy an occasional higher carb or sweet treat (once or twice a week) and see how it goes.
And don't forge wine (or other alcohols) have calories - you can enjoy a glass with your evening meal without guilt and it may help bump the weight upjust a little.

[Newbirth]

I also plan on consulting a nutritionist to make sure I am I don't have any vitamin deficiencies and I'm getting the right amounts of calories/fat/etc.
Just a warning: the nutritionist will probably tell you not to do Atkins. I ride with a nutritionist to get to church each week and she does not think my diet is healthy. Don't be surprized if she tells you that a low-fat diet will help you. Don't believe her when she tells you that.

[athena11]

I think they are going to alter calculating these, because it fluctuates and doesn't take into account body type.

I think it's better to be at the lower end of the "healthy weight" personally.

Some doctors are alarmist for no apparent reason.

Did the doctor do bloodwork?

I enjoy weight training. My body feels lean, but has great definition.