good sources of dha?

[billybob]

what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources of
DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
contain it? thanks.

[Realjob]

read attachment

<billybob@beetle.net> wrote in message news:1122310242.4cf291-
f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@meganetnews2...
> what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
> of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
> contain it? thanks.

[Jason]

In article
<1122310242.4cf291f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@meganetnews2>,
billybob@beetle.net wrote:

> what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
> of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
> contain it? thanks.

Hello, Visit a health food store. I checked the ingredients
on a container of flax seeds and DHA was not listed. It
says on the front of the container the following: "natural
source of fiber, trace vitamins, minerals, amino acids,
Omega 3 and Lignans."

Health food stores sell capsules of fish oil which is high in
Omega 3. I hope this helps, Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that
ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the
subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

[Sbharris-L]

billybob@beetle.net wrote:
> what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
> of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
> contain it? thanks.

There are no good vegetarian sources of DHA readily available,
as you'd have to get it from ocean plankton. Perhaps
somebody's molecularly distilling it from that source by now
(look on the web) but it's going to be VERY expensive.

The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the 22
carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
better way to get DHA.

[bae]

In article
<1122310242.4cf291f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@meganetnews2>,
<billybob@beetle.net> wrote:
>what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources of
>DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
>contain it? thanks.

The best source is oil from cold water marine fish. Flax seed
oil contains an omega-3 fatty acid which your body can
convert to DHA, but unfortunately consuming a lot of it
doesn't have much effect on the amount of DHA your body
produces, so if you want the health benefits of omega-3 and
omega-6 fatty acids, you pretty much have to consume fish
oil, or (lots of) oily, cold water marine fish. Canned
sardines and mackerel are probably the most economical, and
being small, have the most skin per pound (most of the oil is
in the skin). They're also lower on the food chain so are
more likely to be lower in mercury and other toxic substances
than larger species of fish.

The fish oil capsules are the cheaper source of the oils
themselves, but taking into account that you have to buy food
anyway, sardines and mackerel are a very good deal. Read the
label carefully to be sure the sardines aren't packed in
vegetable oil, which can double the calorie content.

I don't think there are any vegetarian sources of the omega-3
and omega-6 fatty acids known to have health benefits. If
there were, I'm sure we'd see them flamboyantly promoted by
the supplement industry. Flax seed is nutritious, contains
substances that may help prevent or or retard some breast
cancers, and could have other health benefits in addition to
being a source of dietary fibre, but unfortunately, you may as
well use linseed oil to make paint for all the good it does
you as a source of DHA. The whole seeds usually just pass
right through you, so if you want some good from them, use
flax seed meal. It's a nice addition to bread and muffins, and
you can cut back on oil when you use it in baking.

[Dawid Mich]

billybob@beetle.net wrote:
> what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
> of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
> contain it? thanks.

DHA is one of the so-called conditionally essential fatty
acid. The others are EPA and GLA and are only essential under
certain conditions. Normally these are not needed in most
healthy individuals as they are manufactured by the body.
People with certain conditions like arthritis, low thyroid or
those who lack certain enzymes may benefit from supplementing
with the GLA.

Rich sources of EPA and DHA: cod liver oil and fatty fish.
Rich sources of GLA: black currant, borage, primrose.

--
Dawid Michalczyk http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and
Illustration

[Montygram]

Fish oil is highly toxic stuff. Unfortunately, the
nutritionists who adise eating this nasty stuff don't know
much about chemistry. If they did, they'd tell you to avoid
it, due to the oxidative stress you body will encounter. Some
doctors realize this and say to eat plenty of antioxidants
(Dr. Perricone says this explicitly all the time), but this is
all built on false premises because the orignal rat study from
1930 (Burr & Burr) did not, in any way, "prove" that adult
humans need dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids of any kind.
Humans make a polyunsaturate called the Mead acid, unless you
eat the typical Western diet, and then your body makes
arachidonic, which is unbelievably dangerous. You can do a
pubmed.com search for arachidonic and see what I mean. It is
true that DHA is so biochemically active that it actuallly
interferes with AA metabolization, which is really dangerous
most of the time, but at the cost of massive free radical
damage. You can't supplement with plenty of fish oil for more
than a few months without doing potentially serious damage to
your body (see JoAnn Branganza's work, for example), but it's
true that is you eat massive amounts of the right
antioxidants, you might be able to avoid most or all of the
problems, but nobody knows exactly how to do that. Vitamin E,
for example, can be dangerous if you don't take all its forms,
but even if you buy good quality E, how do you know what the
right balance is? Nobody knows. They should be trying to
determine such questions, but the big money is in developing
expensive drugs, and that's what most scientists are therefore
interested in pursuing.

[Kamalakar]

"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in message
news:1122326118.300923.285210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the 22
> carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
> nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
> better way to get DHA.

Fish oil is sometimes dangerous and could cause cerebral
hemmorage .

Kam

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[Dan]

On 7/25/2005 7:39 PM, Kamalakar Pasupuleti wrote:
> "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote in message
> news:1122326118.300923.285210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>
>>The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the 22
>>carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
>>nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
>>better way to get DHA.
>
>
> Fish oil is sometimes dangerous and could cause cerebral
> hemmorage .
>
> Kam
>
>

If you get phamaceutical grade Fish Oil, then all the toxins
have been removed. Yes, you pay more. I use Natural Factors
RxOmega-3 from www.iherb.com
(http://www.iherb.com/rxomega31.html).

[Dan]

On 7/25/2005 10:05 PM, montygram wrote:
> Fish oil is highly toxic stuff. Unfortunately, the
> nutritionists who adise eating this nasty stuff don't know
> much about chemistry. If they did, they'd tell you to avoid
> it, due to the oxidative stress you body will encounter.
> Some doctors realize this and say to eat plenty of
> antioxidants (Dr. Perricone says this explicitly all the
> time), but this is all built on false premises because the
> orignal rat study from 1930 (Burr & Burr) did not, in any
> way, "prove" that adult humans need dietary polyunsaturated
> fatty acids of any kind. Humans make a polyunsaturate called
> the Mead acid, unless you eat the typical Western diet, and
> then your body makes arachidonic, which is unbelievably
> dangerous. You can do a pubmed.com search for arachidonic
> and see what I mean. It is true that DHA is so biochemically
> active that it actuallly interferes with AA metabolization,
> which is really dangerous most of the time, but at the cost
> of massive free radical damage. You can't supplement with
> plenty of fish oil for more than a few months without doing
> potentially serious damage to your body (see JoAnn
> Branganza's work, for example), but it's true that is you
> eat massive amounts of the right antioxidants, you might be
> able to avoid most or all of the problems, but nobody knows
> exactly how to do that. Vitamin E, for example, can be
> dangerous if you don't take all its forms, but even if you
> buy good quality E, how do you know what the right balance
> is? Nobody knows. They should be trying to determine such
> questions, but the big money is in developing expensive
> drugs, and that's what most scientists are therefore
> interested in pursuing.
>

I have been supplementing with 800mg EPA and 400mg DHA per day
for about 2 years. I have no ill effects yet. I have tried to
find studies that show supplementing with EPA/DHA causes
damage to the human body to no avail. Can you please post the
studies or provide links?

[Sbharris-L]

Dawid Michalczyk wrote:
> Rich sources of EPA and DHA: cod liver oil and fatty fish.

Cod liver oil has too much vitamin A to be a very good source.
"Fatty fish" must be from cold water, not have mercury, and
(above all) must not be farmed, since that results in lower
levels of omega-3 EFAs (fish can't make omega-3 EFA either--
they have to eat it; fish farms usually don't give them much
in their feed).

> Rich sources of GLA: black currant, borage, primrose.

COMMENT:

"Rich" in some cases means you have to BE rich to buy much
GLA, if you use the wrong one. Per gram of GLA, evening
primrose is very expensive, black current next, and borage by
far the least expensive. If you insist on evening primrose
you'll pay 5 times as much for a gram of GLA as with borage.

SBH

[mcmahan]

In misc.kids.pregnancy billybob@beetle.net wrote:
: what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
: of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
: contain it? thanks.

Seaweed extract.

Larry

[Enrico C]

On 25 Jul 2005 21:16:46 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
in <news:2005Jul25.171646.7409@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

> In article
> <1122310242.4cf291f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@meganetnews2>,
> <billybob@beetle.net> wrote:
>>what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
>>of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
>>contain it? thanks.
>
> The best source is oil from cold water marine fish. Flax
> seed oil contains an omega-3 fatty acid which your body can
> convert to DHA, but unfortunately consuming a lot of it
> doesn't have much effect on the amount of DHA your body
> produces,

The ALA in flax seeds doesn't have "much effect" on the amount
of DHA (and EPA), but according to this site it does have
"some effect"...

http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html "the human
conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is somewhat slow, only about
15% of ALA converts to EPA and 5% DHA (Cunnane 1995, Nutrition
Advisory Panel, 1995)."

Is that true?

Flax seeds, for instance, contain 18 grams of ALA per 100
grams, and that should *theoretically* give 2.7 grams of
EPA and 0.9 grams of DHA, according to the passage I've
just cited.

> so if you want the health benefits of omega-3 and omega-6
> fatty acids, you pretty much have to consume fish oil, or
> (lots of) oily, cold water marine fish. Canned sardines
> and mackerel are probably the most economical, and being
> small, have the most skin per pound (most of the oil is in
> the skin).

Does that (more omegas in the skin) apply for other
fishes as well?

> They're also lower on the food chain so are more likely to
> be lower in mercury and other toxic substances than larger
> species of fish.
>
> The fish oil capsules are the cheaper source of the oils
> themselves,

I read that the fish oil could be contaminated as well, unless
it comes from molecular distillation... What do you think?

> but taking into account that you have to buy food anyway,
> sardines and mackerel are a very good deal. Read the label
> carefully to be sure the sardines aren't packed in vegetable
> oil, which can double the calorie content.
>
> I don't think there are any vegetarian sources of the
> omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids known to have health
> benefits.

What about purslane?

http://www.st-hs.com/TMA_Forum/PUFA%20-%20Calvani%20Benatti%2-
0-%20Feb%202K3.pdf [...] Purslane (Portulaca olearacea), a
vegetable used in soups and salads along the Mediterranean
basin and in Middle Est, is the richest source of LNA of any
green leafy vegetable examined to date. Moreover, it is one of
the few plants known to be a source of eicosapentaenoic acid
(C20:5 n-3, EPA, also known as Timnodonic acid)

Anyway, I gather that a better balance of ALA vs. LA is
usually recommended... and that some studies gave good
results in heart disease prevention with a Mediterranean diet
rich in ALA...

> If there were, I'm sure we'd see them flamboyantly promoted
> by the supplement industry. Flax seed is nutritious,
> contains substances that may help prevent or or retard some
> breast cancers, and could have other health benefits in
> addition to being a source of dietary fibre, but
> unfortunately, you may as well use linseed oil to make paint
> for all the good it does you as a source of DHA. The whole
> seeds usually just pass right through you,

Therefore, also the theoretic calorie count is not real, in
this case?

Whole flax seeds taste good in muesli, though... :)

> So you mean so if you want some good from them, use flax
> seed meal.

You can grind the seeds in a coffee grinder. After grinding
you should refrigerate.

> It's a nice addition to bread and muffins, and you can cut
> back on oil when you use it in baking.

Or you can sprinke the flax seed meal on some foods... :)

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

--
Enrico C

[Kamalakar]

"Dawid Michalczyk" <dm@eonworks.com> wrote in message
news:3kl3vaFuud76U1@individual.net

> Rich sources of EPA and DHA: cod liver oil and fatty fish.
> Rich sources of GLA: black currant, borage, primrose.

Has DHA any good effects on diabetics ? if so in what way .

Kam

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 00:39:47 +0000 (UTC), Kamalakar
Pasupuleti wrote in <news:d493f3119e5a36c3e5c0179f97ed488f.6-
7313@mygate.mailgate.org> on
sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med :

> "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
> wrote in message
> news:1122326118.300923.285210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>> The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the
>> 22 carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
>> nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
>> better way to get DHA.
>
> Fish oil is sometimes dangerous and could cause cerebral
> hemmorage .

What doses?

According to the French Agency for Food Safety (Assfal -
Agence Française de Sécurité Sanitaire des Aliments), DHA+EPA
intake is perfectly safe up to 2 grams per day (Limite
maximale d'apport), while the recommended daily intake (in
France: ANC) for DHA+EPA is 0,5 grams.

http://www.afssa.fr/ftp/afssa/basedoc/rapportomega3.pdf
http://www.afssa.fr/ftp/afssa/basedoc/Dossier.pdf [...] En ce
qui concerne les AGPI-LC (EPA et DHA), une limite maximale
d'apport a donc été établie à environ 2 g/jour. Cette valeur
est proche des apports moyens mis en oeuvre dans les études
épidémiologiques, en administration prolongée et sans que des
effets latéraux notables ne soient signalés (valeur proche de
celles observées dans les populations ayant d'importants
niveaux de consommation de produits marins). [...]

X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,sci.med

[Enrico C]

On 25 Jul 2005 20:05:03 -0700, montygram wrote in
<news:1122347103.692867.60800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> on
misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition :

> can't supplement with plenty of fish oil for more than a few
> months without doing potentially serious damage to your body
> (see JoAnn Branganza's work, for example),
[...]

References?

> but it's true that is you eat massive amounts of the right
> antioxidants, you might be able to avoid most or all of the
> problems, but nobody knows exactly how to do that.
[...]

Get your omegas from real food, not from pills. Simple as
that... :)

X'Posted to: misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition

--
Enrico C

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:38:23 +0200, Enrico C wrote in
<news:1ulxwnzhf1m28$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

>> The best source is oil from cold water marine fish. Flax
>> seed oil contains an omega-3 fatty acid which your body can
>> convert to DHA, but unfortunately consuming a lot of it
>> doesn't have much effect on the amount of DHA your body
>> produces,
>
> The ALA in flax seeds doesn't have "much effect" on the
> amount of DHA (and EPA), but according to this site it does
> have "some effect"...
>
> http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html "the human
> conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is somewhat slow, only
> about 15% of ALA converts to EPA and 5% DHA (Cunnane 1995,
> Nutrition Advisory Panel, 1995)."

On the other hand, the same web page warns you that...

http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html

Several factors inhibit conversion of ALA to it¡¦s long-chain
Metabolites (EPA and DHA)

* A diet high in LA (common in US) can inhibit conversion
by as much as 40%

* A high maternal intake of linoleic acid (Omega 6 from
corn, safflower oil, etc.) inhibits conversion to EPA
and DHA reduces n-3 availability to the developing fetus

* Increasing the ratio of n-3 to n-6 fatty acids in
the diet with ALA may not enhance neuronal DHA
levels in infants

* Saturated and trans fatty acids inhibits ALA
desaturation and elongation

* Ethanol enhibits conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA

* A deficiency of any of the vitamins and mineral
co-factors (vitamin B3, B6, C, Zinc and Magnesium)
required by elongase and Delta-6-desaturase may inhibit
conversion to EPA and DHA

* Loss of Delta-6 desaturates activity that occurs during
normal aging

* Certain health conditions such as diabetes and drugs,
inhibits Delta ¡V 6-saturase activity and prevents
conversion to EPA and DHA

* Certain populations, such as North American natives,
Inuit, Orientals, Norwegians, and Welsh-Irish may not
effectively convert ALA to EPA in the body

========================

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

[bae]

In article <1ulxwnzhf1m28$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>, Enrico C
<enrico.c@people.it> wrote:
>On 25 Jul 2005 21:16:46 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
>in <news:2005Jul25.171646.7409@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
>sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :
>
>> In article <1122310242.4cf291f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@me-
>> ganetnews2>, <billybob@beetle.net> wrote:
>>>what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
>>>of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
>>>contain it? thanks.
>>
>> The best source is oil from cold water marine fish. Flax
>> seed oil contains an omega-3 fatty acid which your body can
>> convert to DHA, but unfortunately consuming a lot of it
>> doesn't have much effect on the amount of DHA your body
>> produces,
>
>The ALA in flax seeds doesn't have "much effect" on the
>amount of DHA (and EPA), but according to this site it does
>have "some effect"...
>
>http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html "the human
>conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is somewhat slow, only about
>15% of ALA converts to EPA and 5% DHA (Cunnane 1995,
>Nutrition Advisory Panel, 1995)."
>
>Is that true?

I don't know.

>Flax seeds, for instance, contain 18 grams of ALA per 100
>grams, and that should *theoretically* give 2.7 grams of
>EPA and 0.9 grams of DHA, according to the passage I've
>just cited.

Most people want to reduce the total fat and calories in their
diet, so if they want more DHA and EPA, eating lots of flax
seed may not be the best strategy.

>Does that (more omegas in the skin) apply for other
>fishes as well?

If you cook a raw oily fish like salmon or mackerel, you'll
observe oil plentifully dripping from the skin and small
amount of dark tissue under it, while the rest of the meat is
fairly dry. I don't know how much of the fat from the skin
migrates into the meat in canned fish.

>> They're also lower on the food chain so are more likely to
>> be lower in mercury and other toxic substances than larger
>> species of fish.
>>
>> The fish oil capsules are the cheaper source of the oils
>> themselves,
>
>I read that the fish oil could be contaminated as well,
>unless it comes from molecular distillation... What do
>you think?

I don't know. The sardines I eat haven't been molecularly
distilled.

>> I don't think there are any vegetarian sources of the
>> omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids known to have health
>> benefits.
>
>What about purslane?
>
>http://www.st-hs.com/TMA_Forum/PUFA%20-%20Calvani%20Benatti%-
>20-%20Feb%202K3.pdf [...] Purslane (Portulaca olearacea), a
>vegetable used in soups and salads along the Mediterranean
>basin and in Middle Est, is the richest source of LNA of any
>green leafy vegetable examined to date. Moreover, it is one
>of the few plants known to be a source of eicosapentaenoic
>acid (C20:5 n-3, EPA, also known as Timnodonic acid)

Interesting. I didn't know this.

I like purslane. I grow a domesticated form in my garden
sometimes. How many pounds would I have to eat to equal one
fish oil capsule or a can of sardines? Am I likely to do so
daily? Can I absorb that relatively minute amount of EPA from
that huge mass of roughage?

>> The whole seeds usually just pass right through you,
>
>Therefore, also the theoretic calorie count is not real, in
>this case?

Well, if you don't digest them because the seed coat isn't
broken, the calorie content is irrelevant. Many plants have
seed coats resistant to digestion and use animals and birds to
distribute their seeds by this method.

>Whole flax seeds taste good in muesli, though... :)
>
>> so if you want some good from them, use flax seed meal.
>
>You can grind the seeds in a coffee grinder. After grinding
>you should refrigerate.

Refrigerating is a good idea. Rancid fats taste lousy.

>> It's a nice addition to bread and muffins, and you can cut
>> back on oil when you use it in baking.
>
>Or you can sprinke the flax seed meal on some foods... :)

Just be aware that it's a high fat food, and the
calories do count.

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:55:01 GMT, Dan wrote in
<news:puiFe.1737$dR5.145@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com> on
misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition :

> I have been supplementing with 800mg EPA and 400mg DHA per
> day for about 2 years. I have no ill effects yet. I have
> tried to find studies that show supplementing with EPA/DHA
> causes damage to the human body to no avail. Can you please
> post the studies or provide links?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-06-14-fish-oil_x.htm

USA TODAY

Fish oil supplements found to set off irregular heartbeats

By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY Fish oil supplements could
trigger potentially deadly heart rhythms in people whose
hearts already beat dangerously out of sync, doctors
report today.

The finding, from a study of 200 patients with implanted
defibrillators that shock the heart back to a normal rhythm,
surprised researchers who expected to find that fish oil
guards against rhythm abnormalities in patients who need
protection most.

The heart gets its pumping power from cells that fire in
sequence as electrical charges race from one cell to another.
Rhythm disturbances occur when these circuits misfire,
causing the heart to beat out of sync and lose its pumping
power. The result can be death caused by a kind of electrical
storm rather than the clogged arteries that cause "standard"
heart attacks.

Four previous studies have shown that fish oils cut the risk
of fatal heart rhythm problems, called arrhythmias, in
patients who had had standard heart attacks.

The research team chose to test fish oil in patients who were
prone to arrhythmias because any benefits probably would be
obvious and apply to a lot of people. About 150,000 people
each year receive implanted defibrillators.

"Our initial thought was that this was a great population in
which to show that fish oil is anti-arrhythmic," says study
leader Merritt Raitt of the Portland VA Medical Center. His
team's report appears in today's Journal of the American
Medical Association.

The research was carried out at six major medical centers from
1999 to 2003. Half of the patients were given fish oil. The
rest were given olive oil, a placebo.

Researchers found that 65% of the patients who took fish oil
supplements developed rhythm disturbances over the next six
months, compared with 36% of those in the placebo group.

Nearly two-thirds of subjects taking fish oil who had a type
of rapid heartbeat known as tachycardia experienced episodes,
compared with 37% of those taking placebo.

"This is a really interesting study," says Alice
Lichtenstein, a Tufts University cardiovascular
nutritionist. "It's telling us that just popping a pill
doesn't always lead to the expected result. It may seem like
a quick and easy way of treating a problem, but usually
things are a lot more complex."

Dietary omega-3 fatty acids, the active ingredients in fish
oil, repeatedly have been linked to a decreased heart
disease risk because of their beneficial properties,
Lichtenstein says.

"They're anti-inflammatory, they minimize clot formation, they
may have a mild antihypertensive effect, and, if people are
eating fish, they're not eating steak," she says. "That
decreases their fat intake."

Raitt says he can only speculate why fish oil hurt rather than
helped. But he says other drugs shown to prevent rhythm
disturbances also can cause them.

"Drugs that affect rhythms are double-edged swords," he says.
"The people they're most likely to hurt are the ones with the
sickest hearts, with recurrent arrhythmias, the ones we had in
our study."

===

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/23/2884?m-
axtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=fish+oil&s-
earchid=1121477019114_2327&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&jour-
nalcode=jama

JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association

Vol. 293 No. 23, June 15, 2005

Original Contribution

Fish Oil Supplementation and Risk of Ventricular Tachycardia
and Ventricular Fibrillation in Patients With Implantable
Defibrillators

A Randomized Controlled Trial

Merritt H. Raitt, MD; William E. Connor, MD; Cynthia Morris,
PhD, MPH; Jack Kron, MD; Blair Halperin, MD; Sumeet S. Chugh,
MD; James McClelland, MD; James Cook, MD; Karen MacMurdy, MD;
Robert Swenson, MD; Sonja L. Connor; Glenn Gerhard, MD; Dale
F. Kraemer, PhD; Daniel Oseran, MD; Christy Marchant, RN, MBA;
David Calhoun, RN; Reed Shnider, MD; John McAnulty, MD

JAMA. 2005;293:2884-2891.

Context Clinical studies of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty
acids (PUFAs) have shown a reduction in sudden cardiac death,
suggesting that omega-3 PUFAs may have antiarrhythmic effects.

Objective To determine whether omega-3 PUFAs have beneficial
antiarrhythmic effects in patients with a history of sustained
ventricular tachycardia (VT) or ventricular fibrillation (VF).

Design and Setting Randomized, double-blind,
placebo-controlled trial performed at 6 US medical centers
with enrollment from February 1999 until January 2003.

Patients Two hundred patients with an implantable
cardioverter defibrillator (ICD) and a recent episode of
sustained VT or VF.

Intervention Patients were randomly assigned to receive fish
oil, 1.8 g/d, 72% omega-3 PUFAs, or placebo and were followed
up for a median of 718 days (range, 20-828 days).

Main Outcome Measures Time to first episode of ICD treatment
for VT/VF, changes in red blood cell concentrations of omega-3
PUFAs, frequency of recurrent VT/VF events, and predetermined
subgroup analyses.

Results Patients randomized to receive fish oil had an
increase in the mean percentage of omega-3 PUFAs in red blood
cell membranes from 4.7% to
8.3% (P<.001), with no change observed in patients receiving
placebo. At 6, 12, and 24 months, 46% (SE, 5%), 51% (5%),
and 65% (5%) of patients randomized to receive fish oil had
ICD therapy for VT/VF compared with 36% (5%), 41% (5%), and
59% (5%) for patients randomized to receive placebo (P
= .19). In the subset of 133 patients whose qualifying
= arrhythmia was VT,
61% (SE, 6%), 66% (6%), and 79% (6%) of patients in the fish
oil group had
VT/VF at 6, 12, and 24 months compared with 37% (6%), 43%
(6%), and 65% (6%) of patients in the control group (P =
.007). Recurrent VT/VF events were more common in patients
randomized to receive fish oil (P<.001).

Conclusion Among patients with a recent episode of sustained
ventricular arrhythmia and an ICD, fish oil supplementation
does not reduce the risk of
VU/VF and may be proarrhythmic in some patients.

===

X'Posted to: misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition

[Jason]

In article <3iiFe.1147$8g.482@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>, Dan
<dannospam@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 7/25/2005 7:39 PM, Kamalakar Pasupuleti wrote:
> > "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
> > wrote in message news:1122326118.300923.285210@g43g2000cw-
> > a.googlegroups.com
> >
> >>The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the
> >>22 carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
> >>nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
> >>better way to get DHA.
> >
> >
> > Fish oil is sometimes dangerous and could cause cerebral
> > hemmorage .
> >
> > Kam
> >
> >
>
> If you get phamaceutical grade Fish Oil, then all the toxins
> have been removed. Yes, you pay more. I use Natural Factors
> RxOmega-3 from www.iherb.com
> (http://www.iherb.com/rxomega31.html).

Hello, I agree with you. The fish oil capsules that I buy also
have had the toxins removed. I had to laugh when I saw the
post about fish oil causing cerebral hemmorages in some people
and the related study in another post. If those studies were
true, that means that thousands of Eskimos would die at early
ages due to cerebral hemmorages. This is not happening. There
was a recent study in JAMA showing a third of the major
medical studies were eventually contradicted (source: Newsweek
July 25, 2005). The post that I mentioned is probably one of
those studies. Jason

--
NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that
ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the
subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.

[Enrico C]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 19:56:18 +0200, Enrico C wrote in
<news:12elpsmib4l.dlg@news.lillathedog.net> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

[...]

> On the other hand, the same web page warns you that...
>
> http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html
>
> Several factors inhibit conversion of ALA to it¢s long-chain
> Metabolites (EPA and DHA)
[...]

I have to point out, anyway, that that information is provided
on a web site who also sells *seal* oil.

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

[Enrico C]

On 26 Jul 2005 18:55:16 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
in <news:2005Jul26.145516.8216@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

> In article <1ulxwnzhf1m28$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>, Enrico
> C <enrico.c@people.it> wrote:
>>On 25 Jul 2005 21:16:46 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
>>in <news:2005Jul25.171646.7409@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
>>sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :
>>
>>> In article <1122310242.4cf291f58814b61e3d8cc92a7e644d9c@m-
>>> eganetnews2>, <billybob@beetle.net> wrote:
>>>>what are some good natural (preferably vegetarian) sources
>>>>of DHA, and omega-3 fatty acid (I believe). Does flax seed
>>>>contain it? thanks.
>>>
>>> The best source is oil from cold water marine fish. Flax
>>> seed oil contains an omega-3 fatty acid which your body
>>> can convert to DHA, but unfortunately consuming a lot of
>>> it doesn't have much effect on the amount of DHA your body
>>> produces,
>>
>>The ALA in flax seeds doesn't have "much effect" on the
>>amount of DHA (and EPA), but according to this site it does
>>have "some effect"...
>>
>>http://www.omega3sealoil.com/Chapter4_3c.html "the human
>>conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is somewhat slow, only
>>about 15% of ALA converts to EPA and 5% DHA (Cunnane 1995,
>>Nutrition Advisory Panel, 1995)."
>>
>>Is that true?
>
> I don't know.

Well, I've found studies that seem to confirm that, at least
for EPA (less for DHA), but there also factors inhibiting the
conversion from ALA to EPA/DHA, such as a diet rich in
saturated fat and a high omega6/omega3 ratio, as often happens
in a Western diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db-
=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7910999&query_hl=2

Am J Clin Nutr. 1994 Jun;59(6):1304-9. Related Articles, Links

Dietary substitution with an alpha-linolenic acid-rich
vegetable oil increases eicosapentaenoic acid
concentrations in tissues.

Mantzioris E, James MJ, Gibson RA, Cleland LG.

Rheumatology Unit, Royal Adelaide Hospital, Australia.

Thirty healthy male volunteers were randomly allocated
into two dietary treatment groups. The flaxseed group (n =
15) maintained a diet high in alpha-linolenic acid
(alpha-LA; 18:3n-3) and low in linoleic acid (LA;
18:2n-6) by using a flaxseed oil and spread that are high in
alpha-LA. The control group (n = 15) maintained a diet high
in LA and low in alpha-LA, typifying a Western diet. Both
groups maintained their diets for 4 wk, followed by another
4-wk period in which they supplemented the diets with fish
oil [1.62 g eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA, 20:5n-3) daily and
1.08 g docosahexaenoic acid (DHA, 22:6n-3) daily] in a
triglyceride form. The flaxseed oil-containing diet
resulted in significant increases in alpha-LA
concentrations in the plasma phospholipid, cholesteryl
ester, and triglyceride fractions (eightfold increase) and
neutrophil phospholipids (50% increase). EPA concentrations
increased by 2.5-fold in the plasma lipid fractions and
neutrophil phospholipids. After fish-oil supplementation
EPA concentrations increased in parallel in both dietary
groups, remaining higher in the flaxseed group for both the
plasma lipid fractions and neutrophil phospholipids. The
results indicate that alpha-LA-rich vegetable oils can be
used in a domestic setting (in conjunction with a
background diet low in LA) to elevate EPA in tissues to
concentrations comparable with those associated with
fish-oil supplementation.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 7910999 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db-
=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15576848&query_hl=2

Long-chain conversion of [13C]linoleic acid and
alpha-linolenic acid in response to marked changes in their
dietary intake in men.

Hussein N, Ah-Sing E, Wilkinson P, Leach C, Griffin BA,
Millward DJ.

Centre for Nutrition and Food Safety, School of Biomedical and
Molecular Sciences, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey
GU2 7XH, United Kingdom.

We studied the long-chain conversion of [U-13C]alpha-linolenic
acid (ALA) and linoleic acid (LA) and responses of erythrocyte
phospholipid composition to variation in the dietary ratios of
18:3n-3 (ALA) and 18:2n-6
(LA) for 12 weeks in 38 moderately hyperlipidemic men. Diets
were enriched with either flaxseed oil (FXO; 17 g/day
ALA, n=21) or sunflower oil (SO; 17
M/day LA, n=17). The FXO diet induced increases in
phospholipid ALA (>3-fold), 20:5n-3 [eicosapentaenoic acid
(EPA), >2-fold], and 22:5n-3 [docosapentaenoic acid (DPA),
50%] but no change in 22:6n-3 [docosahexanoic acid (DHA)],
LA, or 20:4n-6 [arachidonic acid (AA)]. The increases in EPA
and DPA but not DHA were similar to those in subjects given
the SO diet enriched with 3 g of EPA plus DHA from fish oil
(n=19). The SO diet induced a small increase in LA but no
change in AA. Long-chain conversion of [U-13C]ALA and
[U-13C]LA, calculated from peak plasma 13C concentrations
after simple modeling for tracer dilution in subsets from
the FXO (n=6) and SO (n=5) diets, was similar but low for
the two tracers (i.e., AA, 0.2%; EPA, 0.3%; and DPA, 0.02%)
and varied directly with precursor concentrations and
inversely with concentrations of fatty acids of the
alternative series. [13C]DHA formation was very low (<0.01%)
with no dietary influences.

PMID: 15576848 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db-
=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8730609&query_hl=2

Eur J Clin Nutr. 1996 Apr;50(4):229-35.

Alpha-linolenic acid in rapeseed oil partly compensates
for the effect of fish restriction on plasma long chain
n-3 fatty acids.

Valsta LM, Salminen I, Aro A, Mutanen M.

Department of Nutrition, National Public Health Institute,
Helsinki, Finland.

OBJECTIVE: To examine the ability of alpha-linolenic acid
(ALA) in low erucic acid rapeseed oil (RO) to compensate
for the effects of a restriction in fish intake on plasma
fatty acid composition. DESIGN AND SUBJECTS: Two times 6
weeks' randomized dietary intervention was used with blind
crossover design in 40 healthy unconfined women and men
(age 20-46y). INTERVENTIONS: Subjects were assigned to two
fish restricted diets, namely RO diet and Trisun-sunflower
oil (TSO) diet, with similar proportions of saturated :
monounsaturated : polyunsaturated fatty acids
(11.5:17.5:8.5% of total energy, En%), but differing in
their ALA content (2.2 and 0.3 En%) and n-6 : n-3-ratio (3
: 1 and 23 : 1, respectively). The fatty acid compositions
of plasma triglycerides (TG), cholesterol esters (CE), and
phospholipids (PL) were analyzed by gas chromatography.
Dietary intake was evaluated based on 3- to 7-day food
records. RESULTS: The proportion of TG and CE ALA
decreased on the TSO diet (from 1.6% to 0.9% and from 0.9%
to .4%, respectively, P < 0.001) and increased on the RO
diet (from 1.7% to
3.4% and from 0.9% to 1.3%, respectively, P < 0.001)
compared to the baseline level. The proportion of
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) in all three plasma fractions
decreased on the TSO diet but not on the RO diet. The
proportions of docosa-hexaenoic acid (DHA) decreased on
both experimental diets and there was no difference in CE
DHA between the diets. PL docosa-pentaenoic acid (DPA) and
PL DHA remained at a higher level on the RO diet compared
to the TSO diet (P < 0.001 and P < 0.05, respectively).
CONCLUSIONS: ALA is metabolized to EPA in humans to a
significant extent. The degree to which rapeseed oil (ca
50g/day) affects the proportion of EPA resembled the
effect of a weekly portion (50-100g) of fatty fish
depending on the fat content of the fish.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 8730609 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db-
=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9637947

Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1998;68(3):159-73.

Can adults adequately convert alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3)
to
eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3) and docosahexaenoic acid
(22:6n-3)?

Gerster H.

Vitamin Research Department, F. Hoffman-Roche Ltd, Basel,
Switzerland.

A diet including 2-3 portions of fatty fish per week,
which corresponds to the intake of 1.25 g EPA (20:5n-3) +
DHA (22:6n-3) per day, has been officially recommended on
the basis of epidemiological findings showing a
beneficial role of these n-3 long-chain PUFA in the
prevention of cardiovascular and inflammatory diseases.
The parent fatty acid ALA
(18:3n-3), found in vegetable oils such as flaxseed or
rapeseed oil, is used by the human organism partly as a
source of energy, partly as a precursor of the
metabolites, but the degree of conversion appears to be
unreliable and restricted. More specifically, most studies
in humans have shown that whereas a certain, though
restricted, conversion of high doses of ALA to EPA occurs,
conversion to DHA is severely restricted. The use of ALA
labelled with radioisotopes suggested that with a
background diet high in saturated fat conversion to
long-chain metabolites is approximately 6% for EPA and
3.8% for DHA. With a diet rich in n-6 PUFA, conversion is
reduced by 40 to 50%. It is thus reasonable to observe an
n-6/n-3 PUFA ratio not exceeding 4-6. Restricted
conversion to DHA may be critical since evidence has been
increasing that this long-chain metabolite has an
autonomous function, e.g. in the brain, retina and
spermatozoa where it is the most prominent fatty acid. In
neonates deficiency is associated with visual impairment,
abnormalities in the electroretinogram and delayed
cognitive development. In adults the potential role of DHA
in neurological function still needs to be investigated in
depth. Regarding cardiovascular risk factors DHA has been
shown to reduce triglyceride concentrations. These
findings indicate that future attention will have to focus
on the adequate provision of DHA which can reliably be
achieved only with the supply of the preformed long-chain
metabolite.

Publication Types:

* Review
* Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9637947 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>>Flax seeds, for instance, contain 18 grams of ALA per 100
>>grams, and that should *theoretically* give 2.7 grams of
>>EPA and 0.9 grams of DHA, according to the passage I've
>>just cited.
>
> Most people want to reduce the total fat and calories in
> their diet, so if they want more DHA and EPA, eating lots of
> flax seed may not be the best strategy.

Well, of course they should count that for the fat...

>>Does that (more omegas in the skin) apply for other fishes
>>as well?
>
> If you cook a raw oily fish like salmon or mackerel, you'll
> observe oil plentifully dripping from the skin and small
> amount of dark tissue under it, while the rest of the meat
> is fairly dry. I don't know how much of the fat from the
> skin migrates into the meat in canned fish.

Anyway, I guess the USDA nutrional data on salmon refer to the
flesh, with no skin.

>>> They're also lower on the food chain so are more likely to
>>> be lower in mercury and other toxic substances than larger
>>> species of fish.
>>>
>>> The fish oil capsules are the cheaper source of the oils
>>> themselves,
>>
>>I read that the fish oil could be contaminated as well,
>>unless it comes from molecular distillation... What do
>>you think?
>
> I don't know. The sardines I eat haven't been molecularly
> distilled.

:-)

>>> I don't think there are any vegetarian sources of the
>>> omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids known to have health
>>> benefits.
>>
>>What about purslane?
>>
>>http://www.st-hs.com/TMA_Forum/PUFA%20-%20Calvani%20Benatti-
>>%20-%20Feb%202K3.pdf [...] Purslane (Portulaca olearacea), a
>>vegetable used in soups and salads along the Mediterranean
>>basin and in Middle Est, is the richest source of LNA of any
>>green leafy vegetable examined to date. Moreover, it is one
>>of the few plants known to be a source of eicosapentaenoic
>>acid (C20:5 n-3, EPA, also known as Timnodonic acid)
>
> Interesting. I didn't know this.
>
> I like purslane. I grow a domesticated form in my garden
> sometimes. How many pounds would I have to eat to equal one
> fish oil capsule or a can of sardines?

My wild guess: a lot! :)

> Am I likely to do so daily? Can I absorb that relatively
> minute amount of EPA from that huge mass of roughage?

>>> The whole seeds usually just pass right through you,
>>
>>Therefore, also the theoretic calorie count is not real, in
>>this case?
>
> Well, if you don't digest them because the seed coat isn't
> broken, the calorie content is irrelevant. Many plants have
> seed coats resistant to digestion and use animals and birds
> to distribute their seeds by this method.

So, what percentage of the whole flax seed do we actually
digest, in your opinion?

>
>>Whole flax seeds taste good in muesli, though... :)
>>
>>> so if you want some good from them, use flax seed meal.
>>
>>You can grind the seeds in a coffee grinder. After grinding
>>you should refrigerate.
>
> Refrigerating is a good idea. Rancid fats taste lousy.
>
>>> It's a nice addition to bread and muffins, and you can cut
>>> back on oil when you use it in baking.
>>
>>Or you can sprinke the flax seed meal on some foods... :)
>
> Just be aware that it's a high fat food, and the calories
> do count.

Yes, but you can use it instead of other fat.

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

--
Enrico C

[Dan]

On 7/26/2005 7:58 AM, Kamalakar Pasupuleti wrote:
> "Dawid Michalczyk" <dm@eonworks.com> wrote in message
> news:3kl3vaFuud76U1@individual.net
>
>
>>Rich sources of EPA and DHA: cod liver oil and fatty fish.
>>Rich sources of GLA: black currant, borage, primrose.
>
>
> Has DHA any good effects on diabetics ? if so in what way .
>
> Kam
>

Diabetic? Type 1 or 2? If you are 2, then eat a balanced meal,
30.30.40 good fat, protein, carbs. If type 1, then take
your the meds.

[Dan]

On 7/26/2005 7:47 AM, Enrico C wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:55:01 GMT, Dan wrote in
> <news:puiFe.1737$dR5.145@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com> on
> misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition :
>
>
>>I have been supplementing with 800mg EPA and 400mg DHA per
>>day for about 2 years. I have no ill effects yet. I have
>>tried to find studies that show supplementing with EPA/DHA
>>causes damage to the human body to no avail. Can you please
>>post the studies or provide links?
>
>
>
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-06-14-fish-o-
> il_x.htm
>
> USA TODAY
>
> Fish oil supplements found to set off irregular heartbeats
>
> By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY Fish oil supplements could
> trigger potentially deadly heart rhythms in people whose
> hearts already beat dangerously out of sync, doctors
> report today.
>
> The finding, from a study of 200 patients with implanted
> defibrillators that shock the heart back to a normal rhythm,
> surprised researchers who expected to find that fish oil
> guards against rhythm abnormalities in patients who need
> protection most.
>
> The heart gets its pumping power from cells that fire in
> sequence as electrical charges race from one cell to
> another. Rhythm disturbances occur when these circuits
> misfire, causing the heart to beat out of sync and lose its
> pumping power. The result can be death caused by a kind of
> electrical storm rather than the clogged arteries that cause
> "standard" heart attacks.
>
> Four previous studies have shown that fish oils cut the risk
> of fatal heart rhythm problems, called arrhythmias, in
> patients who had had standard heart attacks.
>
> The research team chose to test fish oil in patients who
> were prone to arrhythmias because any benefits probably
> would be obvious and apply to a lot of people. About 150,000
> people each year receive implanted defibrillators.
>
> "Our initial thought was that this was a great population in
> which to show that fish oil is anti-arrhythmic," says study
> leader Merritt Raitt of the Portland VA Medical Center. His
> team's report appears in today's Journal of the American
> Medical Association.
>
> The research was carried out at six major medical centers
> from 1999 to 2003. Half of the patients were given fish oil.
> The rest were given olive oil, a placebo.
>
> Researchers found that 65% of the patients who took fish oil
> supplements developed rhythm disturbances over the next six
> months, compared with 36% of those in the placebo group.
>
> Nearly two-thirds of subjects taking fish oil who had a type
> of rapid heartbeat known as tachycardia experienced
> episodes, compared with 37% of those taking placebo.
>
> "This is a really interesting study," says Alice
> Lichtenstein, a Tufts University cardiovascular
> nutritionist. "It's telling us that just popping a pill
> doesn't always lead to the expected result. It may seem like
> a quick and easy way of treating a problem, but usually
> things are a lot more complex."
>
> Dietary omega-3 fatty acids, the active ingredients in fish
> oil, repeatedly have been linked to a decreased heart
> disease risk because of their beneficial properties,
> Lichtenstein says.
>
> "They're anti-inflammatory, they minimize clot formation,
> they may have a mild antihypertensive effect, and, if people
> are eating fish, they're not eating steak," she says. "That
> decreases their fat intake."
>
> Raitt says he can only speculate why fish oil hurt rather
> than helped. But he says other drugs shown to prevent rhythm
> disturbances also can cause them.
>
> "Drugs that affect rhythms are double-edged swords," he
> says. "The people they're most likely to hurt are the ones
> with the sickest hearts, with recurrent arrhythmias, the
> ones we had in our study."
>
>
> ===
>
>
>
> http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/23/2884?m-
> axtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=fish+oil&s-
> earchid=1121477019114_2327&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&jour-
> nalcode=jama
>
>
> JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association
>
> Vol. 293 No. 23, June 15, 2005
>
> Original Contribution
>
>
> Fish Oil Supplementation and Risk of Ventricular Tachycardia
> and Ventricular Fibrillation in Patients With Implantable
> Defibrillators
>
> A Randomized Controlled Trial
>
> Merritt H. Raitt, MD; William E. Connor, MD; Cynthia Morris,
> PhD, MPH; Jack Kron, MD; Blair Halperin, MD; Sumeet S.
> Chugh, MD; James McClelland, MD; James Cook, MD; Karen
> MacMurdy, MD; Robert Swenson, MD; Sonja L. Connor; Glenn
> Gerhard, MD; Dale F. Kraemer, PhD; Daniel Oseran, MD;
> Christy Marchant, RN, MBA; David Calhoun, RN; Reed Shnider,
> MD; John McAnulty, MD
>
> JAMA. 2005;293:2884-2891.
>
> Context Clinical studies of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty
> acids (PUFAs) have shown a reduction in sudden cardiac
> death, suggesting that omega-3 PUFAs may have antiarrhythmic
> effects.
>
> Objective To determine whether omega-3 PUFAs have beneficial
> antiarrhythmic effects in patients with a history of
> sustained ventricular tachycardia (VT) or ventricular
> fibrillation (VF).
>
> Design and Setting Randomized, double-blind,
> placebo-controlled trial performed at 6 US medical centers
> with enrollment from February 1999 until January 2003.
>
> Patients Two hundred patients with an implantable
> cardioverter defibrillator (ICD) and a recent episode of
> sustained VT or VF.
>
> Intervention Patients were randomly assigned to receive fish
> oil, 1.8 g/d, 72% omega-3 PUFAs, or placebo and were
> followed up for a median of 718 days (range, 20-828 days).
>
> Main Outcome Measures Time to first episode of ICD treatment
> for VT/VF, changes in red blood cell concentrations of
> omega-3 PUFAs, frequency of recurrent VT/VF events, and
> predetermined subgroup analyses.
>
> Results Patients randomized to receive fish oil had an
> increase in the mean percentage of omega-3 PUFAs in red
> blood cell membranes from 4.7% to
> 8.3% (P<.001), with no change observed in patients receiving
> placebo. At 6, 12, and 24 months, 46% (SE, 5%), 51% (5%),
> and 65% (5%) of patients randomized to receive fish oil
> had ICD therapy for VT/VF compared with 36% (5%), 41%
> (5%), and 59% (5%) for patients randomized to receive
> placebo (P
> = .19). In the subset of 133 patients whose qualifying
> = arrhythmia was VT,
> 61% (SE, 6%), 66% (6%), and 79% (6%) of patients in the fish
> oil group had
> VT/VF at 6, 12, and 24 months compared with 37% (6%), 43%
> (6%), and 65% (6%) of patients in the control group (P =
> .007). Recurrent VT/VF events were more common in
> patients randomized to receive fish oil (P<.001).
>
> Conclusion Among patients with a recent episode of sustained
> ventricular arrhythmia and an ICD, fish oil supplementation
> does not reduce the risk of
> VT/VF and may be proarrhythmic in some patients.
>
> ===
> \\\

maybe I read too fast but these are people who already have a
form of heart disease. I am healthy with no disease. Maybe
it's too late charlie.

[Dan]

On 7/26/2005 12:26 PM, Jason wrote:
> In article <3iiFe.1147$8g.482@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>, Dan
> <dannospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On 7/25/2005 7:39 PM, Kamalakar Pasupuleti wrote:
>>
>>>"Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com>
>>>wrote in message
>>>news:1122326118.300923.285210@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
>>>
>>>
>>>>The omega-3 in flax is 18 carbons, and is turned into the
>>>>22 carbn DHA in your body only poorly. It's better than
>>>>nothing, but fish oil capsules or red salmon is a much
>>>>better way to get DHA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Fish oil is sometimes dangerous and could cause cerebral
>>> hemmorage .
>>>
>>>Kam
>>>
>>>
>>
>>If you get phamaceutical grade Fish Oil, then all the toxins
>>have been removed. Yes, you pay more. I use Natural Factors
>>RxOmega-3 from www.iherb.com
>>(http://www.iherb.com/rxomega31.html).
>
>
> Hello, I agree with you. The fish oil capsules that I buy
> also have had the toxins removed. I had to laugh when I saw
> the post about fish oil causing cerebral hemmorages in some
> people and the related study in another post. If those
> studies were true, that means that thousands of Eskimos
> would die at early ages due to cerebral hemmorages. This is
> not happening. There was a recent study in JAMA showing a
> third of the major medical studies were eventually
> contradicted (source: Newsweek July 25, 2005). The post that
> I mentioned is probably one of those studies. Jason
>

Okinawans

[Stacy]

"The research team chose to test fish oil in patients who were
prone to arrhythmias because any benefits probably would be
obvious and apply to a lot of people."

"Enrico C" <use_replyto_address@despammed.com> wrote in
message news:jk7vhrk8i0gl.dlg@news.lillathedog.net...
| On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 03:55:01 GMT, Dan wrote in
| <news:puiFe.1737$dR5.145@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com> on
| misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition :
|
| > I have been supplementing with 800mg EPA and 400mg DHA per
| > day for about 2 years. I have no ill effects yet. I have
| > tried to find studies that show supplementing with EPA/DHA
| > causes damage to the human body to no avail. Can you
| > please post the studies or provide links?
|
|
|
| http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-06-14-fish-o-
| il_x.htm
|
| USA TODAY
|
| Fish oil supplements found to set off irregular heartbeats
|
| By Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY Fish oil supplements could
| trigger potentially deadly heart rhythms in people whose
| hearts already beat dangerously out of sync, doctors
| report today.
|
| The finding, from a study of 200 patients with implanted
| defibrillators that shock the heart back to a normal rhythm,
| surprised researchers who expected to find that fish oil
| guards against rhythm abnormalities in patients who need
| protection most.
|
| The heart gets its pumping power from cells that fire in
| sequence as electrical charges race from one cell to
| another. Rhythm disturbances
occur
| when these circuits misfire, causing the heart to beat out
| of sync and
lose
| its pumping power. The result can be death caused by a kind
| of electrical storm rather than the clogged arteries that
| cause "standard" heart
attacks.
|
| Four previous studies have shown that fish oils cut the risk
| of fatal
heart
| rhythm problems, called arrhythmias, in patients who had had
| standard
heart
| attacks.
|
| The research team chose to test fish oil in patients who
| were prone to arrhythmias because any benefits probably
| would be obvious and apply to a lot of people. About 150,000
| people each year receive implanted defibrillators.
|
| "Our initial thought was that this was a great population in
| which to show that fish oil is anti-arrhythmic," says study
| leader Merritt Raitt of the Portland VA Medical Center. His
| team's report appears in today's Journal
of
| the American Medical Association.
|
| The research was carried out at six major medical centers
| from 1999 to 2003. Half of the patients were given fish oil.
| The rest were given olive oil, a placebo.
|
| Researchers found that 65% of the patients who took fish oil
| supplements developed rhythm disturbances over the next six
| months, compared with 36% of those in the placebo group.
|
| Nearly two-thirds of subjects taking fish oil who had a type
| of rapid heartbeat known as tachycardia experienced
| episodes, compared with 37% of those taking placebo.
|
| "This is a really interesting study," says Alice
| Lichtenstein, a Tufts University cardiovascular
| nutritionist. "It's telling us that just popping a
| pill doesn't always lead to the expected result. It
| may seem like a
quick
| and easy way of treating a problem, but usually things are a
| lot more complex."
|
| Dietary omega-3 fatty acids, the active ingredients in
| fish oil,
repeatedly
| have been linked to a decreased heart disease risk because
| of their beneficial properties, Lichtenstein says.
|
| "They're anti-inflammatory, they minimize clot formation,
| they may have a mild antihypertensive effect, and, if people
| are eating fish, they're not eating steak," she says. "That
| decreases their fat intake."
|
| Raitt says he can only speculate why fish oil hurt rather
| than helped. But he says other drugs shown to prevent rhythm
| disturbances also can cause them.
|
| "Drugs that affect rhythms are double-edged swords," he
| says. "The people they're most likely to hurt are the ones
| with the sickest hearts, with recurrent arrhythmias, the
| ones we had in our study."
|
|
| ===
|
|
|
|
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/293/23/2884?m-
axtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=fish+oil&s-
earchid=1121477019114_2327&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&jour-
nalcode=jama
|
|
| JAMA - Journal of the American Medical Association
|
| Vol. 293 No. 23, June 15, 2005
|
| Original Contribution
|
|
| Fish Oil Supplementation and Risk of Ventricular Tachycardia
| and Ventricular Fibrillation in Patients With Implantable
| Defibrillators
|
| A Randomized Controlled Trial
|
| Merritt H. Raitt, MD; William E. Connor, MD; Cynthia Morris,
| PhD, MPH;
Jack
| Kron, MD; Blair Halperin, MD; Sumeet S. Chugh, MD; James
| McClelland, MD; James Cook, MD; Karen MacMurdy, MD; Robert
| Swenson, MD; Sonja L. Connor; Glenn Gerhard, MD; Dale F.
| Kraemer, PhD; Daniel Oseran, MD; Christy Marchant, RN, MBA;
| David Calhoun, RN; Reed Shnider, MD; John McAnulty, MD
|
| JAMA. 2005;293:2884-2891.
|
| Context Clinical studies of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty
| acids (PUFAs) have shown a reduction in sudden cardiac
| death, suggesting that omega-3 PUFAs may have antiarrhythmic
| effects.
|
| Objective To determine whether omega-3 PUFAs have beneficial
| antiarrhythmic effects in patients with a history of
| sustained ventricular tachycardia (VT) or ventricular
| fibrillation (VF).
|
| Design and Setting Randomized, double-blind,
| placebo-controlled trial performed at 6 US medical centers
| with enrollment from February 1999 until January 2003.
|
| Patients Two hundred patients with an implantable
| cardioverter defibrillator (ICD) and a recent episode of
| sustained VT or VF.
|
| Intervention Patients were randomly assigned to receive fish
| oil, 1.8
g/d,
| 72% omega-3 PUFAs, or placebo and were followed up for a
| median of 718
days
| (range, 20-828 days).
|
| Main Outcome Measures Time to first episode of ICD treatment
| for VT/VF, changes in red blood cell concentrations of
| omega-3 PUFAs, frequency of recurrent VT/VF events, and
| predetermined subgroup analyses.
|
| Results Patients randomized to receive fish oil had an
| increase in the mean percentage of omega-3 PUFAs in red
| blood cell membranes from 4.7% to
| 8.3% (P<.001), with no change observed in patients receiving
| placebo. At
6,
| 12, and 24 months, 46% (SE, 5%), 51% (5%), and 65% (5%) of
| patients randomized to receive fish oil had ICD therapy for
| VT/VF compared with 36% (5%), 41% (5%), and 59% (5%) for
| patients randomized to receive placebo (P
| = .19). In the subset of 133 patients whose qualifying
| = arrhythmia was VT,
| 61% (SE, 6%), 66% (6%), and 79% (6%) of patients in the fish
| oil group had
| VT/VF at 6, 12, and 24 months compared with 37% (6%), 43%
| (6%), and 65% (6%) of patients in the control group (P =
| .007). Recurrent VT/VF events were more common in
| patients randomized to receive fish oil (P<.001).
|
| Conclusion Among patients with a recent episode of sustained
| ventricular arrhythmia and an ICD, fish oil supplementation
| does not reduce the risk
of
| VT/VF and may be proarrhythmic in some patients.
|
| ===
|
|
| X'Posted to: misc.kids.pregnancy,sci.med,sci.med.nutrition
|
|

[Enrico C]

On 25 Jul 2005 21:16:46 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
in <news:2005Jul25.171646.7409@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

[...]
> Flax seed is nutritious, contains substances that may help
> prevent or or retard some breast cancers, and could have
> other health benefits in addition to being a source of
> dietary fibre, but unfortunately, you may as well use
> linseed oil to make paint for all the good it does you as a
> source of DHA. The whole seeds usually just pass right
> through you,

[...]

Well, you can soak the whole flax seeds before eating, and
they'll get softer. Would that do any better? :)

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

[Ann]

That study applied ONLY to people with a specific EXISTING
heart problem.

[Ann]

Real food is no longer an option for a lot of people
considering our fish now have high levels of mercury and other
pcbs that make it CRAZY to consume it. You're playing craps
with your health if you eat fish these days. There are still
some fish products that you can perhaps eat safely like canned
salmon but you have to be sure WHERE that salmon came from.
And it is probably just a matter of time before those few fish
products are also contaminated. China is now exporting a lot
of packaged fish to our supermarkets. They are one of the
worst polluters. Supplementing with EPA/DHA fish oil is the
safest way to go. If you think you have a heart condition,
check with your m.d. first Or stick to sardines & salmon. I
take over 1000 mg per day. No problems here.

[Maison.Mou]

Enrico C a écrit dans le message ...
>On 25 Jul 2005 21:16:46 GMT, bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu wrote
>in <news:2005Jul25.171646.7409@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> on
>sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :
>
>[...]
>> Flax seed is nutritious, contains substances that may help
>> prevent or or retard some breast cancers, and could have
>> other health benefits in addition to being a source of
>> dietary fibre, but unfortunately, you may as well use
>> linseed oil to make paint for all the good it does you as a
>> source of DHA. The whole seeds usually just pass right
>> through you,
>
>[...]
>
>Well, you can soak the whole flax seeds before eating, and
>they'll get softer. Would that do any better? :)
>
>X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy
>
>

Whole linseeds aka flax seeds are a good source of HCN.
Linseed oil makes a good wood polish and very fine paint
thinner for artists. Linseed is normally detoxified when
cake is made as cattle feed. Eating whole linseed is not a
good idea!! JL

[Enrico C]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:58:00 +0200, maison.mousse wrote in
<news:42f4a7ec$0$912$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

> Whole linseeds aka flax seeds are a good source of HCN.
> Linseed oil makes a good wood polish and very fine paint
> thinner for artists. Linseed is normally detoxified when
> cake is made as cattle feed. Eating whole linseed is not a
> good idea!! JL

Would you expand on that?, for instance quantify the HCN
content in whole flax seeds and the possible effects on human
health from their consumption?

Thanks!

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

--
Enrico C

[Maison.Mou]

Enrico C a écrit dans le message
<15k23cwrmdmc9$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>...
>On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:58:00 +0200, maison.mousse wrote in
><news:42f4a7ec$0$912$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> on
>sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :
>
>> Whole linseeds aka flax seeds are a good source of HCN.
>> Linseed oil makes a good wood polish and very fine paint
>> thinner for artists. Linseed is normally detoxified when
>> cake is made as cattle feed. Eating whole linseed is not a
>> good idea!! JL
>
>Would you expand on that?, for instance quantify the HCN
>content in whole flax seeds and the possible effects on human
>health from their consumption?
>
>Thanks!
>
>
>Enrico C

The concentration of HCN from linseed varies. The USDA site
should give the range normally found. The effect on human
health of course depends on the amount of exposure. You can
check some of the poison control sites on the web or call your
local poison control center for more information. Note:
LINSEED (Linum usitatissimus) not only is the plant
cyanogenetic it is also goitrogenic.

Linseed oil is not only used in painting materials but on
exposure to air the oil forms a tough transparent polymer.
This property is used to make the oil into linoleum. An
inexpensive yet tacky floor covering.

JL

[Enrico C]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:11:16 +0200, maison.mousse wrote in
<news:42f4f1b1$0$22319$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> on
sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :

> Enrico C a écrit dans le message
> <15k23cwrmdmc9$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>...
>>On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:58:00 +0200, maison.mousse wrote in
>><news:42f4a7ec$0$912$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr> on
>>sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy :
>>
>>> Whole linseeds aka flax seeds are a good source of HCN.
>>> Linseed oil makes a good wood polish and very fine paint
>>> thinner for artists. Linseed is normally detoxified when
>>> cake is made as cattle feed. Eating whole linseed is not a
>>> good idea!! JL
>>
>>Would you expand on that?, for instance quantify the HCN
>>content in whole flax seeds and the possible effects on
>>human health from their consumption?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>
>>Enrico C
>
>
> The concentration of HCN from linseed varies. The USDA site
> should give the range normally found.

I coulnd't find that info in the USDA data base.

> The effect on human health of course depends on the amount
> of exposure. You can check some of the poison control sites
> on the web or call your local poison control center for more
> information. Note: LINSEED (Linum usitatissimus) not only is
> the plant cyanogenetic it is also goitrogenic.

[...]

I looked up Pubmed for <"Linum usitatissimum" human nutrition>
and Pubmed came up with this.

Br J Nutr. 1993 Mar;69(2):443-53. Related Articles, Links

High alpha-linolenic acid flaxseed (Linum usitatissimum):
some nutritional properties in humans.

Cunnane SC, Ganguli S, Menard C, Liede AC, Hamadeh MJ,
Chen ZY, Wolever TM, Jenkins DJ.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine,
University of Toronto, Canada.

Although high alpha-linolenic acid flaxseed (Linum
usitatissimum) is one of the richest dietary sources of
alpha-linolenic acid and is also a good source of soluble
fibre mucilage, it is relatively unstudied in human
nutrition. Healthy female volunteers consumed 50 g ground,
raw flaxseed/d for 4 weeks which provided 12-13% of energy
intake (24-25 g/100 g total fat). Flaxseed raised
alpha-linolenic acid and long-chain n-3 fatty acids in
both plasma and erythrocyte lipids, as well as raising
urinary thiocyanate excretion 2.2-fold. Flaxseed also
lowered serum total cholesterol by 9% and
low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol by 18%. Changes in
plasma alpha-linolenic acid were equivalent when 12 g
alpha-linolenic acid/d was provided as raw flaxseed flour
(50 g/d) or flaxseed oil (20 g/d) suggesting high
bioavailability of alpha-linolenic acid from ground
flaxseed. Test meals containing 50 g carbohydrate from
flaxseed or 25 g flaxseed mucilage each significantly
decreased postprandial blood glucose responses by 27%.
Malondialdehyde levels in muffins containing 15 g flaxseed
oil or flour/kg were similar to those in wheat-flour
muffins. Cyanogenic glycosides (linamarin, linustatin,
neolinustatin) were highest in extracted flaxseed mucilage
but were not detected in baked muffins containing 150 g
flaxseed/kg. We conclude that up to 50 g
high-alpha-linolenic acid flaxseed/d is palatable, safe
and may be nutritionally beneficial in humans by raising
n-3 fatty acids in plasma and erythrocytes and by
decreasing postprandial glucose responses.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Controlled Clinical Trial

PMID: 8098222 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition,misc.kids.pregnancy

[Visual Pur]

The answer to this is simple:

Vitamin E, for example, can be dangerous if you don't take
all its forms, but even if you buy good quality E, how do you
know what the right balance is? Nobody knows. They should be
trying to determine such questions, but the big money is in
developing expensive drugs, and that's what most scientists
are therefore interested in pursuing.

Eat healthy foods, not synthesized chemicals. You can count on
the Cosmic Calorie Counter to get the proportions just right.