Spikes in AM without eating

[timveach]

My Blood Sugar starts out at 140-155 in the morning 7AM ish. By 8-8:30 am it will spike to 200 or more. This is if I eat eggs, or just have coffee (no sweetener), or have nothing. Then it takes hours to bring this down, which seems to produce an exhausting type feeling by noonish. With meds (Prandin and Gloucophage) I will return to 120 iah by 2ish. Any Thoughts from anyone???? :wave:

[Lisa N]

It sounds like what you're experiencing is a prolonged dawn phenomenon. The best thing to do for this, believe it or not, is eat breakfast and a few eggs may not be enough to stop the gluconeogenesis that causes the higher blood sugar readings after fasting all night. Not eating at all (or just coffee) will only make it worse. Try adding 5 or 6 grams of carb to your breakfast and see if you notice any improvement. :idea:

[RhondaK]

I have same problem and asked doc about it last week. He could only say we are all different and not just meals but hormones as well as other factors affect our sugar.
I can be totally normal all day except at 10 am. I like you tried food, nofood, just coffee, no coffee then just plain nothing and no matter what you can set your watch by my 10am rise.
Go figure , I have to just assume it's gonna happen it is good rest of day so I am just living with it for now. Good luck.

[timveach]

Hey Guys, Thanks!! (and ladies...!)
Anyone hear about diabeticine?? Any thoughts??

[asseya]

Hi :wave: timveach. I was really glad to read your post, I thought I was the only weird morning person. It didn't make any sense to me that my blood sugar after a whole night of fasting, I don't eat after 9 at night, would be 130-160mg. After I take my meds, Diamicron and Glucophage , it goes down to 90-110. Lisa, could you please explain, dawn phenomena. I hope these questions don't sound juvenille but I was just diagnosed with type 2 six months ago and here in the great Sahara there isn't much info. Your a light at the end of the tunnel :D

[Squid]

Hey Guys, Thanks!! (and ladies...!)
Anyone hear about diabeticine?? Any thoughts??

I had never heard of it and did a web search. Seems there are some people out there that say it works for them. But I'm always skeptical of any commercial product. I suppose if I were desperate and my blood sugars were worse I'd look at it more closely and maybe try it for one month.

Lisa

[Lisa N]

asseya,

Basically, the Dawn Phenomenon happens to nearly everyone, both diabetic and non-diabetic alike but it's more pronounced in the type 2 diabetic. What it means is that your fasting blood sugars in the morning are higher than when you went to bed even though you have had nothing to eat or drink for 8 hours or more.
The is some debate as to what causes DP and having read quite a bit on it, it seems fairly complex. One of the main components is gluconeogenesis by the liver combined with a lessening in effectiveness of insulin in our bloodstream (either your own or injected) which combine to raise blood sugars. The best way to turn off gluconeogenesis is to eat something with at least a small amount of carbs in it (5-6 grams). The worst thing to do is to skip eating completely since that encourages your liver to continue making glucose. :p
As some have noted, though, their blood sugars are going to run higher in the morning than they do the rest of the day no matter what they do in which case I believe the best strategy would be to try to keep the number as low as you realistically can until the numbers start falling on their own. For some, their body is less sensitive to insulin in the morning than it is the rest of the day.
I would also like to add that the DP I was experiencing did get a lot better after several months of low carbing and now, after 4 years, my morning BS is pretty much normal so it does seem to bet better with patience and time. :)

Here are some links regarding Dawn Phenomenon:
http://www.diabetic-talk.org/dp.htm
http://www.diabetesselfmanagement.com/article.cfm?aid=1023&sid=6&sk=5WZ5

[asseya]

Hi Lisa, I'm finding it hard to strick a balance between a decent weight loss program, and a good diabetic diet. I have lost 80lbs in the last 5 months, but I still have a long road to haul.

[Lisa N]

Hi Lisa, I'm finding it hard to strick a balance between a decent weight loss program, and a good diabetic diet. I have lost 80lbs in the last 5 months, but I still have a long road to haul.

asseya, how about we start with what you're currently doing so others here can make suggestions?
Posting daily menus would be a good start. :)

[CAdiabetic]

I sometimes have high BS in morning too. Late night snack right before I go to bed sometimes help. If I wake up in middle of night 1-3am. I try to rember to have sm. snack then too. I'm up at night a lot boing to bathroom or I can't sleep. Just another wonderful side effect of diabetes. I usally make sure snck has a litle carb mixed with protien or fat. Aslice of chesse for instance seems to do the trick for me. Since every body is different you have to do some experimenting to find out what will work for you. Good Luck!

[asseya]

Dear Lisa, I have changed my diet this past month to the low-carb regime.Basically I eat 2 eggs with one-half of a piece of dry toast made with bran, no flour. Lunch time I eat a can of tuna or a couple of pieces of chicken breast,broiled, some lettuce and a cuke. Dinner is about the same as lunch with the addition of a salad, without tomatoes. Since I read the postings on DP I eat two cups of popcorn about 11 at night. My morning BG is still 115 but its kinda leveled there. I would really like to eat mayo, and cheese the way the diet book says, but the little voice inside me screams that it s too many calories. Can I really count carbs and forget about calories and grams of fat? At least I have one happy note, My hbA1c was 5.25% so I must be doing something right. I'm not sure how long it will take to learn to live a diabetic lifestyle and like it . Right now it's really a drag. THanks :cool:

[Lisa N]

I'm not sure how long it will take to learn to live a diabetic lifestyle and like it . Right now it's really a drag.

asseya, if the only vegetables you are eating are salad greens and cucumbers, I can imagine how much of a drag this must seem, especially if you are also trying to throw low fat in there as well. :p However, take a look at this list and you'll see that there is a lot more variety available than you realize. Generally, a 6 gram of carb serving is considered 2/3 cup cooked:

artichoke hearts
asparagus
bamboo shoot
beet greens
bell peppers (green and red)
bok choy
broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage (red and green)
cauliflower
celery
celery root
daikon radish
dandelion greens
eggplant
water chestnuts
endive
escarole
hearts of palm
kohlrabi
mushrooms
mustard greens
okra
patty pan squash
pumpkin
radicchio
rhubarb
saurkraut
green onions
green onions
green beans
wax beans
snow peas
spaghetti squash
spinach
summer squash
turnip greens
turnips
zucchini
zucchini flowers
all lettuces (darker green ones like Romaine are best)

Can I really count carbs and forget about calories and grams of fat?

asseya, most people can do just that although some do also find a need to count calories as well, especially as they get closer to their goal weight. As far as fat goes, it's your friend on this WOE (way of eating), since it helps keep you from being hungry and, despite the current way of thinking, is good for us with the exception of transfats and, unlike carbs and to a lesser extent protein, it has no impact on blood sugar. Fats from butter, cream cheese, sour cream, full fat salad dressings (check the labels for transfats...any type of oil that starts with 'partially hydrogenated' or 'fractionated'), olive oil and cheese are all good choices.
What Dr. Bernstein suggests if you find that you are not losing weight just counting carbs is to decrease your protein serving at one meal by 1/3 and note the effect. If you don't begin losing weight after a week or so, cut the protein serving at a second meal by 1/3. You may find that with the addition of fats, you don't need to eat as much protein to be satisfied. Fats and carbs remain constant.
Also, unless it's a matter of personal taste, you don't have to limit your protein sources to just fish and chicken.

Since I read the postings on DP I eat two cups of popcorn about 11 at night.

Popcorn is fairly high on the glycemic rating. If you find that eating before bed helps, some peanut butter or cheese might be a better choice.

Your current A1c is very good, so it seems you are on the right track despite the higher morning readings. :thup: