VIOXX

[otenn]

My mom is just starting induction on Atkins. She tried it once before, but quite after a few weeks. Although she was achieving some success, and her fibromyalgia was improving, she said she had a very hard time mentally getting over the stigma of lots of meat and fat and lots of cholesterol in what she was eating. The "low fat" weight watchers way of doing things was just too firmly implanted.

Anyway, after me having experiences some success and obvious health benefits, she (and my dad) are just trying again.

She has asked me to try to find out for her if there are any implications of her taking VIOXX (not sure of the spelling sorry) while doing Atkins. I know that there are some resourceful people out here who might have some information about that. She is on 25 mg / day of VIOXX and she has felt some dramatic improvement in her pain since she started it and so she does not want to stop. My mom had to go on permanent disability 2 years ago because the pain was so bad and so unmanageable.

She says that the prescription warnings cite potential problems with liver and kidney function while on VIOXX and she certainly doesn't want to exacerbate that if a Ketogenic diet has the potential to make it worse.

Looking forward to some information.

Mari

[doreen T]

Sorry your question got missed for so long! And sorry too that your mom has fibro. :(

I scoured a number of sites, and saw that Vioxx was not recommended for persons with pre-existing kidney or liver disease. The risk for developing kidney or liver disease from taking Vioxx was lumped in with the same risk from taking other NSAIDS ... including aspirin and ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil). There is similar risk of gastric upset and bleeding, but much less than aspirin. I also noted that increased blood pressure and edema/swelling of the legs can occur. This is due to the drug causing fluid and salt retention, so it would be wise to cut the salt intake. RxList has a good drug information database. Here's the link to the chart of adverse reactions (http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/rofecox_ad.htm) for rofecoxib/Vioxx.

One risk that wasn't really mentioned in the side effects is that apparently there's a risk for heart problems .. here's an article at MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/news/617196.asp?cp1=1) about it, from August 2001.

As for low-carbing ... ketosis does not damage the kidneys or liver. Ketones are a normal thing for the liver to produce .. most people including non-lowcarbers will produce at least a few ketones during the overnight "fast". It is no more "stressful" for the liver to convert fatty acids to ketones, than for it to convert glucose to glycogen for storage. The liver is one big factory, and converting and storing the by-products of digestion and metabolism is its role.

Ketones and ketogenic diets do not harm kidneys. Persons with existing kidney disease may have to avoid excessive PROTEIN, but low-carbing itself, and consuming the needed calories as fat will not harm the kidneys in any way. Ketogenic diets are being used successfully to treat epilepsy in small children, and infants even (over 1 yr) .. and they remain on these low-carb, moderate protein, high-fat diets for years ... (er well, until they go to school and swap candy with their friends :rolleyes: )

There are a growing number of practitioners who are recommending low-carb or at least carb-restricted diet, such as The Zone ... for fibromyalgia treatment. I have found that I no longer have the late afternoon energy slumps. I do recommend eating smaller meals more frequently. And make sure each meal or snack has at least a little protein with it, and not just low in carbs.

Hope this is helpful (if tardy :o)

Doreen

[Holly]

I am interested in knowing about another NSAID Toredol/Ketorolac. I have been searching for info but only seem to find the drug company hoohaa. The pharmacist told me that this drug used to be popular until some old people died of bleeding ulcers, then he said that I should be okay because I wasnt old. It is the only NSAID that works (and I have taken a bunch of them) so I take it, but I have wondered how it works with this diet and in general.

Holly

[doreen T]

I tried Toradol 15+ yrs ago for menstrual pain .. and it did nothing .. :( .. Everybody's different.

Low-carbing and ketosis aren't going to affect the drug in any way. The Toradol has GI bleeding, ulcers etc as side effects (just like all of the other NSAIDS) ... these will happen if they're going to, regardless of the diet. Eating HIGH-carb actually might be worse .. since carbs/sugar stimulate high INSULIN levels, and insulin plays a role in triggering excess acid levels in the stomach. So if anything, low-carbing will be helpful.

One warning I noticed was that alcohol will really increase the risk of gastric bleeding, so you might want to avoid any alcoholic drinks, even wine, while you're taking toradol. Another thing ... just like other NSAIDS, it can cause fluid and salt retention ... leading to high blood pressure and swelling of the feet and ankles .. so it would be wise to cut back on salt and salty foods -- bacon, ham, pickles, cheese, mayonnaise .. try to find salt-reduced versions.

As I stated in the post above, ketosis and ketones aren't harmful to the kidneys or liver -- but the toradol might be.

Doreen

[Holly]

Thanks Doreen:

One more quick question... if ketorolac is making me retain water, could it be responsible for my most recent stall?

I dont eat much salt or salty foods, but I have been using NoSalt to get potasium, maybe I should go back to potassium pills again.

These NSAIDS are funny, I tried Vioxx, Celebrex, and about 4 others before I got any relief from my poor knees without cartilege. I cant understand how others can use drugs such as Celebrex etc and call them wonder drugs and they dont work for me, but an old relatively obscure one works...

I wish that I didnt have to take them, I tried eliminating them for 3 days and I ended up having to use the cane again. Pain is a funny thing, I can use my knees if I have the anti-inflamatory but I just cant force myself to use them without it. If I can actually use my knees with the anti-inflamatory, you would think that I could use them without too (just painful). Getting up from a chair turns into an act of courage without meds. :thdown:

Once again, thanks

Holly

[tofi]

I've been on Vioxx for much of the last 2.5 years. My kidneys and liver function are fine. Also my osteoarthritis pain is pretty bearable from the Vioxx. It's a great drug. And if you WERE fine before you started, the diet and Vioxx won't hurt your kidneys & liver.

That study that doreenT quoted about heart stuff. It is thought that people who start on Vioxx or Celebrex for pain, don't take aspirin or ibuprofen (Advil) any more. Vioxx & Celebrex don't affect the platelets & blood clotting - that's their major advantage over NSAIDs. So people who NEED the heart protection of the blood thinning aspirin should probably still take a "baby aspirin" per day - But ASK YOUR DOCTOR about this.

I hope that after my second hip replacement next June, I won't need the Vioxx anymore. Hope this helps you.

BarB

[Tony90266]

I used to market Celebrex, and I WOULD NOT take it.

It can decrease kidney function and slow clearance of water--and make you hold on to weight. Some patients on Celebrex suffer swollen hands and feet, and other problems related to fluid retention. The most Serious is the potential for high blood pressure!!

Finally for women, Celebrex has been shown to slow bone growth--of concern to women especially who may be losing bone as they age. Vioxx is the same.

Worst of all is neither of these two "super aspirins" have proven better than generic naprosyn or even aspirin in the long term studies. Not worth going off your prescription plan and paying out of pocket!!

[tbagram]

If your on vioxx or celebrex watch for neurological changes such as dizziness, lightheadedness, and even loss of consciousness. I work at a hospital in a neuro dept. and have noticed a lot of people are comming in for these problems and are on these meds. A friend of mine who is an RN had a blackout and shes sure it was the vioxx that did it. :eek: No problems since she went off of it. Vonnie :roll:

[shedevil13]

I have CFS for the last three years and had pain in all my joints so bad the doctor decided to give me VIOXX to help out. One pill per day for six days. The first month I took it, it was wonderful, every pain I had disappeared and stayed gone for a few weeks.

Then another month later I had to take it again and this time was very bad. It made me almost comatose if that would describe it. I had to take my final exam for school and there was not possible way. I couldn't concentrate from once sentence to another and connect the dots. It was awful. People kept asking me if I was okay and no I was not. It was almost like a major depression or just can't pick myself up and stay focused.

I have not taken it since then. But the good thing is that in March I started again on no sugar and flour or aspartame. Funny thing is, I have no pain except for the normal old age of 30. :)

Unless the spot on my upper left shoulder is pressed or my inside of my shin bones.

If she choosed the vioxx, just take it one month and find another alternative. Maybe it is the aspartame if she is drinking diet soda other than Diet Rite.