Conflicting Info at My P.L.A.N.

[dstartz]

I entered food today at My P.L.A.N. and the breakdown showed the PECC as 3.6
http://www.geocities.com/~dstartz/art/1.jpg

When I went to my 'Daily Summary' and it showed them at 9.5
http://www.geocities.com/~dstartz/art/2.jpg

When I went to 'Show Details' it showed them at 9.5
http://www.geocities.com/~dstartz/art/3.jpg

Then, when I clicked 'Submit message' for this note I got an error that said 'No Forum specified'.


HELP!

__________________

http://dstartz.com/art/206hrts.gif

[jadefox26]

No doubt the ingenious T will be here shortly to help you out on that one, I think that happened to me, but I just ignored it - I will look in again to see what he says.

[tamarian]

Hey, thanks for the detailed report :thup:

It's now fixed.

Wa'il

[tamarian]

No doubt the ingenious T will be here shortly to help you out on that one, I think that happened to me, but I just ignored it - I will look in again to see what he says.

Don't ignore any errors :) The program is still under development and testing, so we're interested in finding any bugs, so when it's officially release as a non-beta version, it would be thouroughly tested and cleaned up.

Wa'il

[jadefox26]

Sorry Wa'il, I thought it was something to do with me being silly and not looking at it right!! Thanks for clearing it up tho! It's a fantastic program...I am really enjoying it!

[dstartz]

Atkins Carb Counter (http://atkins.com/global/carb-counter/index.html) says this about avocados
1 med Avocado whole raw (all varieties)

Total Carbs 15 - 10 fiber = 5 Net Cabs
My P.L.A.N. (http://forum.lowcarber.org/myplan.php?do=meals&day=2005-2-11l) now says
1/2 raw California Avocados

Total Carbs 7.5 PECC 7.5
For me the original My P.L.A.N. info (http://geocities.com/~dstartz/art/1.jpg) was more accurate
Total Carbs 7.5 PECC 3.6
and was more inline with Atkins' take on them.

[tamarian]

Our data is obtained from USDA SR17 database, and shows carbs by difference (i.e. fiber subtracted)

I suspect the Atkins number is subtracting the fiber twice, instead of once, if they took the USDA carb count, and then subtracted the USDA listed fiber. That's clearly they case if you add the calories they listed for avocado.

As to difference between the PECC today, it was due to a bug reported earler today, and now should be fixed.

In any case, to find out if the carbs have already been subtracted, just compare the total calories to the result of this fomula:

(grams of carbs X 4) + (grams of protein x 4) + (grams of fat x 9)

If the result matches the declared calories, then they label has already subtracted the fiber. If not, then the label may have listed the total carbs (carbs and fiber)

That's just things add up, math-wise.

Wa'il

[dstartz]

Atkins

(7.5 X 4) + (2.4 x 4) + (13.5 x 9) = 161.1 < (Atkins says 170)

My P.L.A.N.

(7.5 X 4) + (1.7 x 4) + (13.3 x 9) = 156.5 > (My P.L.A.N. 144)


Not sure I'm understanding......

[tamarian]

Atkins

(7.5 X 4) + (2.4 x 4) + (13.5 x 9) = 161.1 < (Atkins says 170)

My P.L.A.N.

(7.5 X 4) + (1.7 x 4) + (13.3 x 9) = 156.5 > (My P.L.A.N. 144)


Not sure I'm understanding......


This one may be comparing two different items, as the protein count is different.

Could you give me the actual links to those items, and I'll be glad to post a detailed difference and calculation.

Wa'il

[doreen T]

Just FYI, not all avocados are created equally ;) California (Hass) avocados are smaller size, higher in fat and lower in carbs than Florida avocados.

The skin of California/Hass avocados are bumpy and turn nearly black when ripe.
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/haasavocado.jpg


Florida avocados have a smoother speckled skin which stays green when ripe.
http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/fuerteavocado.jpg


So it's likely that the Atkins counter is giving the average carb count, since the listing states "all varieties". The MyPLAN count is for a specific variety, in this case a California type.


Doreen

[dstartz]

The links are in my original post and below.

USDA SR17 database (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/)

Energy 289 kcal
Energy 1206 kj

(14.95 x 4) + (3.39 x 4) + (26.66 x 9) = 477/2* = 238.5


*For 1/2 avocado

[tamarian]

The links are in my original post and below.

USDA SR17 database (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl)

Energy 289 kcal
Energy 1206 kj

(14.95 x 4) + (3.39 x 4) + (26.66 x 9) = 477/2* = 238.5


*For 1/2 avocado

This gives a cgi error, not item listed. The USDA site does not give links to specific items, as it stores in sessions.

What was the title of the item?

Wa'il

Wa'il

[dstartz]

I changed the link, it was a CA avocado and the measurement was '1 whole fruit'.

[tamarian]

I changed the link and it was a CA avocado.

No, it still shows the main USDA page, not the nutritional listing.

However, if you are comparing our database content, it will be identical to the USDA, since we use their latest version (SR 17).

The USDA lists carbs as carbs by difference, so the fiber is pre-subtracted.

Wa'il

[dstartz]

http://geocities.com/~dstartz/art/avocado.jpg

[tamarian]

http://geocities.com/~dstartz/art/avocado.jpg

That's identical to our listing:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/myplan.php?s=&m_size=1&seq=2&item_id=9038&do=details

Basic Data
Energy 289 kcal
Energy 1206 kj
Carbohydrate, by difference 14.95 g
Sugars, total 0.52 g
Fiber, total dietary 11.8 g
Starch 0.19 g
Sucrose 0.10 g
Glucose (dextrose) 0.14 g
Fructose 0.14 g
Lactose 0.00 g
Maltose 0.00 g
Galactose 0.14 g
Protein 3.39 g
Total lipid (fat) 26.66 g
Cholesterol 0 mg
Fatty acids, total saturated 3.678 g
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated 16.952 g
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated 3.142 g

[dstartz]

Okay, they all are basically the same. (Of course, Atkins still says we can take 5 or those 7.5 carbs off our count....)

Why have the PECC category on 'My P.L.A.N.' if the CARB and PECC columns are going to be the same?

[tamarian]

Okay, they all are basically the same. (Of course, Atkins still says we can take 5 or those 7.5 carbs off our count....)

Why have the PECC category on 'My P.L.A.N.' if the CARB and PECC columns are going to be the same?

Because some companies don't subtract the fiber, and if the tool finds the fiber has not been already subtracted, it will reflect that in the PECC :)

This is only a small subset of the entries that has that.

Wa'il

[dstartz]

Alrighty then!

Thank you ever so much for spending so much time and energy with this. It is truly appreciated!!!


Donna/dstartz
Wondering if we could have a fiber column so we know how much we're getting in our diet....http://dstartz.com/LC/html/emoticons/nervous.gif

[4beans4me]

This kinda freaks me out, I mean, it looks like everything I've been eating already has had the fiber deducted, and I've been re-deducting it. Also, most of my LC products that claim to be so low carb, already have deducted the fiber and are blatently lying on their packaging that they didn't. :( To stay at 20 carbs, my my veggie intake needs to be cut dramatically..

[tamarian]

Well, the situation is bad, but not that bad.

The problem is that some subtract fiber, and some don't. There's no easy way to find out if it's one way or the other.

However, I've been researching this issue in depth, and might have found a way to narrow down the uncertainty.

Stay tuned, there will be a new thread with the new findings, and an update to our database.

Wa'il

[treefrog]

According to the USDA site (ASCII file of the nutrient definition file http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR17/asc/NUTR_DEF.txt ), they use the CHOCDF method of carbohydrate measurement, which is the following, and does not subtract fiber.

CHOCDF> Total carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, alcohol and ash

These are the different methods:

<CHOCDF> Total carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, alcohol and ash

<CHOCSM> Total carbohydrate calculated by summation of analytical values of free sugars, dextrin, oligosaccharides, starch, glycogen

<CHOAVLDF> Available carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, fibre, alcohol and ash

<CHOAVL> Available carbohydrate, calculated by summation of analytical values of free sugars, dextrin, oligosaccharides, starch, glycogen

<CHOAVLM> Available carbohydrate expressed as monosaccharide equivalent

[treefrog]

Okay, never mind. I got a reply in another thread which answered this question. Thanks to Wa'il.

Here is the thread that explains it, for anyone who comes along and has the same question.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=234348

[tamarian]

According to the USDA site (ASCII file of the nutrient definition file http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR17/asc/NUTR_DEF.txt ), they use the CHOCDF method of carbohydrate measurement, which is the following, and does not subtract fiber.

CHOCDF> Total carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, alcohol and ash

These are the different methods:

<CHOCDF> Total carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, alcohol and ash

<CHOCSM> Total carbohydrate calculated by summation of analytical values of free sugars, dextrin, oligosaccharides, starch, glycogen

<CHOAVLDF> Available carbohydrate by difference, calculated as 100g minus the sum of grams of water, protein, fat, fibre, alcohol and ash

<CHOAVL> Available carbohydrate, calculated by summation of analytical values of free sugars, dextrin, oligosaccharides, starch, glycogen

<CHOAVLM> Available carbohydrate expressed as monosaccharide equivalent

Note that these methods are further explained on pages 8-9 of the "Composition of Foods Raw, Processed, Prepared USDA National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, Release 17", where it explictly staes that label are allowed to use any of these two formulas:

For formulated foods, calorie values (source codes 8 or 9; for more information on source codes, see p. 24) generally reflect industry practices (as permitted by NLEA) of calculating calories from 4-4-9 calories per gram of protein, carbohydrate, and fat, respectively, or from 4-4-9 calories per gram of protein, carbohydrate minus insoluble fiber, and fat. The latter method is often used for high-fiber foods.

Wa'il