What is the Big deal with taking Ephedra

[atmasters]

I have been using Ephedra for awile now and it was a great tool to have and now it is like the world has turned it into the badest thing ever ?? What is so wrong with it if you take it in moderation. It seems like every one wants to buy the herbal stuff well I tried all that and nothing worked. Only the tried and proven Ephedra. I do not use it as the Magic pill but it does curb my hunger and it gives me a little boost when working out. Now dont get me wrong I understand that taking like 200Mg a day is very bad for you and your body but taking any thing in mass dosage is bad for you right. So what is the big bad thing that every one is so worried about ????

[nowonder]

Death (http://www.google.com/search?q=ephedra+death&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official)


--nowonder

[LukeA]

The thing is ephedra even in very small dosages has been proven over and over to be detrimental, if not entirely dangerous. It increases blood pressure for one. Strokes, aneurisms (sp?), heart attacks, blood clots, hair loss, acne, and death are all proven possible side effects.

Personally back when I used to use it, at the dosage reccomended on the bottle, I ended up in hospital because of it.

[jadeca]

Ephedra has been linked to the deaths of over a dozen people. I don't think that's a chance I'd be willing to take for the sake of vanity.....

[omgiam30]

Pretty much agree with everyone else on this - I took it for 3 days about 4 years ago - It made my heart beat heavy and fast as it would if you were running - and I was just sitting there - not worth the risk in my opinion

Not to mention the maker of the product gets sued if the product is proven to cause illness/death

For me, this woe curbs my hunger - Maybe you could find an alternative - aside from the herbal stuff - maybe there is another product or vitamins that would help you

Good luck to you :wave:

[Meghan]

Death, liver damage, kidney failure, your know renal shut down addiction! I really could go on but that should be good enough!

[quietone]

For overweight people, who are already in a challenged health state, it is even more deadly than for others.

What ephedra does is get your adrenaline pumping artificially. As I'm sure you know, adrenaline is mean to pump a little bit all the time, and a lot if you are scared or working out or whatever.

So, here is ephedra pumping up your adrenaline, now what happens if you really do get scared or start to work out? This combination can make your heart beat so fast that it fails.

there are those whom it doesn't seem to bother, there are those it does, and there are those who are dead and can never tell their tale.

It's a choice you have to make along with all your other adult choices. And I guess if you want to be logical and anlaytical about it, you could say deaths from ephedra are much lower than deaths from smoking etc., etc., etc.

But there is still that chance of death. And you know it's there. So you choose.

[sunspine17]

I have never taken ephedra but in casual thought figured that most people who are taking it are fine and it's the rare minority who ever have something tragic happen to them. I'm normally pretty laid back with this sort of stuff and don't really get paranoid about those types of things easily.

The whole ephedra thing crossed my mind again when my DH was taken to the hospital a couple of weeks ago. He had a heart arrhythmia which suddenly caused his heart to beat very fast. His heart actually stopped beating and I watched the paramedics do CPR and shock him. Turns out he has a pretty bad case of a ridiculously common heart arrhythmia-- now that I know about I turn around an every other person and their uncle has it (seriously, it's so common it's not even funny). Scary thing is, he's had this since he was a kid. Many people have arythmias, have them since they are kids and most times never know it. In many cases as well they usually aren't life threatening (under normal circumstances-- i.e. not taking massive stimulants) and people go about their lives normally.

DH is having a procedure done this month to correct his arrhythmia. When he left the hospital the doc told him absolutely no energy drinks (Red Bull, etc.), energy supplements, even Sudafed because with his arrhythmia they could send his heart into a tailspin. The doc thinks the attack (that nearly killed him) could have partially been attributed to the fact he took Sudafed a number of times during the couple of days before.

One day it just hit me and I said to DH "All those people you hear about-- the highschool athletes that drop dead at practice, people with little history of drug usage that die of a heart attack from using a drug recreationaly only a handful of times, etc. -- frequently you hear later that they did have some kind of heart problem that they didn't know about previously." It dawned on us that it could have been DH if he had taken ephedra or something similar (and believe he has taken lots of things in his younger days). Wow-- even harmless Sudafed is a risk!

That REALLY put things in perspective for me. Unknown heart defects are much more common than you think. You could take something a bunch of times and seem fine and one day it could mess with you and kill you. Man, that's some scary stuff. And this is just problems with the heart-- ephedra can effect many other systems in your body.

Like I said, had this never happened to us I would have NEVER in a million years realized how dangerous certain supplements and OTC medicines can be under the wrong circumstances.

[atmasters]

Well you all have great awnsers right on. The thing is that it has been used for over a 1000 years by the asians.the 12 deaths from it was do to talking well 300mg in one day yes that will do a lot of Damage. It is funny I feel no side affects at all. I guess I should stick to the same brand. well thanks for all the info. realy I have been taking it for about 2 years know off and on I only take maybe 16mg a day. it is funny how some thing that has been around for so many years and then you get some people to take it to the extream and then it is all over. I wounder how many people have died to Asprine over the years ? our taking to much gravel and died. Well you can still get it in Canada my bottle says made in Canada and well I think i will stick to it. It is almost like the Atkins Diet I love it but even my Doctor says that it is bad for you and well lots of people. I like the story of Dr.Atkins death was do to a heart attak. I do not beleave that I think he fell off his roof our some thing years ago. but what I am trying to get at is that if 12 people take this diet to the extream and die our have a part of there body go down are we all going to run and stop this diet I am not because it works for me. well any way thanks for the imput on this and good luck to you all and lets keep up the good work

[TVMichelle]

Atmasters, I am not on the Atkins plan, so I don't feel any need to try to "protect" him, but he did not fall off a roof and he did not have a heart attack. He slipped on an icy sidewalk, hit his head, and died from complications of the head injury. This has been well documented in ALL the media. Believe me, if he died of a heart attack, there would have been a HUGE rush to publicize this by everyone who vilified him for so long, INCLUDING the media. It would have been national headlines in every paper and led every nightly newscast.

Think about it....

Also, Sunspine17, I know just what you mean! My husband had atrial fibrillation/atrial flutter. They tried to do cardiac ablation on him, but it was unsuccessful and and now he has a pacemaker, which has essentially solved the problem! Millions of people have AFib/AFlutter. As my husband's cardiologist explained it, just as we wrinkle on the outside, we also "wrinkle" on the inside. (Muscle tissue is less firm, less elastic, etc. as we age.) The heart is like an electric circuit. When heart tissue "wrinkles" touch, it creates something like a short circuit. Cardiac ablation, which works amazingly well in most cases, eliminates the places where the short circuits occur, restoring normal cardiac electrical function. (Didn't work on my husband because he was born with a congenital heart defect which was surgically repaired in the 1960s.)

[sunspine17]

atmasters, I'm glad the ephedra is working for you and you are right many people take and have taken these products and are fine. Also true many cases in the media involve large doses which you are not taking. In my opinion, I believe persons such as my DH an TV Michelle's as well can be adversely affected by low doses of not only ephedra but cold medicine, energy drinks, etc. as well. In an otherwise healthy individual I believe ephedra likely has little risks at the proper dosages. However, my recent experiences have taught me that there are A LOT of people walking around that *think* they are otherwise healthy but may have an underlying problem that could be exacerbated by low doses of certain stimulants.

I think you should continue what you feel is best for you. We each have our own opinions on what's right for us. It's not my place to tell you absolutely not to do something or vice versa. I just wanted to share my DH's story so if you get any warning signs (palpitations, very rapid heartbeat, etc.) you can get them checked out. Most people taking low doses of ephedra are fine as I'm sure you will be as well. I do wish you happiness and success!

TVMichelle-- So glad everything turned out well with your DH. Mine has the ablation scheduled for this month. He's a bit freaked about the possibility of a pacemaker but the doc make it seem like it won't be that big of a deal and like you said, then we will KNOW the problem will be over. Wether the ablation is successful or not the important part is we caught this just in the nick of time before something really bad happened (and the docs are amazed he didn't have a heart attack the night he went into the hospital-- whew!). Thanks for sharing!

[atmasters]

Sunspinetv

Wow I am sorry to hear about your scare was that due to using the Ephedra? that is pretty scary. I am not a supper star and do not realy beleave in the Magic Pill but over the years I have looked for the right product that would aid in waight loss and give you that little extra. I first found Ephedra in Petawawa Ontario Canada I was posted to the Canadian Army Base there and found it in the health food store. Man for a long time that is what we all took nobody would touch the Thermal Pro ( Wich had it in it any way ) But we all took the Ephedra. I also take the caffine Pill and an asprine. I would hate to put my self at to much risk I know I do when I take,Well any thing realy, But that is a scary story of your DH and if that is what coused his problam was taking Ephedra maybe I will think twice about it.Thanks for all your input into this.

[atmasters]

Not to keep rocking the boat on this but this link was interesting
http://www.leonardfitness.com/ephedrine.htm

[cs_carver]

I guess I just have a prejudice against "that little extra" philosophy. Atkins and exercise work pretty well on their own. I worked hard to gain this weight and I need to work reasonably hard to get it off, too. I don't overeat because I'm hungry, per se; appetite suppressants aren't an answer for me. LC eating has enough of an appetite suppressant effect to do the trick and when I'm hungry, I need to eat.

When I need to get my lift out of a bottle, I need to be looking at whatever else is happening that's sucking up my energy.

[sunspine17]

Atmasters, that was a very interesting article-- thanks!

DH wasn't taking ephedra specifically but he had been taking the recommended doses of Sudafed the few days leading up to his attack. His doc believes --whatever the stimulant contained in Sudafed and other non-drowsy cold medicines, I can't remember the names!-- played a large factor. Stimulants in cold medicines, efedra, some of the herbs in common energy drinks all stimulate the heart in a similar fashion (the doctor when explaining this clumped all those things together as being just as equally dangerous in someone with an arrhythmia). DH's arrhythmia causes his heart to beat very fast (it was going 230 beats per minute for a couple of hours that night) and any of the things above, even at the recommended doses, can set it off.

Millions of people use OTC non-drowsy cold medicines, ephedra, Red Bull, etc. and are fine. But also millions have arrhythmias that don't know it. Mixing the two together and throwing in a little bad timing along with it can make for a very serious outcome.

I'm not saying to stop, that's entirely your decision-- but honestly, if you ever notice a fluttering or palpitation take it seriously. We've all had a palpitation at one time or another-- so did DH. He mentioned it to his docs a few times but they always said it was probably a little stress or indigestion or something. Basically no big deal-- everyone gets it sometimes. Only to find it really WAS a very common serious problem. Just keep a watchful eye especially combining it with caffeine.

I still can't believe that things you can buy over the counter can have such an effect-- it really blows me away! I consider myself a fairly educated person but never in a million years would think to be leery of OTC products in small doses. But DH nearly died that night (actually he did but they brought him back). He wasn't doing anything strenuous and had a pretty relaxing day. We were just about to sit down to watch a movie and bam.

I wish you luck and honestly it's up to you what you take. I just wanted to put the awareness out there because when I learned about this (and witnessed it) I was absolutely 100% shocked that something that seemed so harmless could affect someone so seriously.

[cs_carver]

As in, "Pseudo = fake" ephedra.

That's the connection. Don't know the chemistry but they're not that far apart.

As far as dangerous OTC meds go, Tylenol is right in there. The lethal dose isn't very much higher than the beneficial dose, and people who don't know they have liver disease (which is a lot of people, because liver disease gives few symptoms until the end stages), it can easily be fatal.

[atmasters]

Well Thanks for your input sunspine17 and I hope your DH is doing fine now and it is a shame that you and your family had to go threw such a fightfull thing and I will take your advise and If I do notice any thing our maybe some other product then I will swich. I guess we are all buily a little diffrant and the affects can be scary for people I on the other hand have seen nothing but good come out of it.That is why I was just wondering the big Hipe on it.Once again Thanks for the Information and I wish you and your Family good days and good luck on The LC life

[sunspine17]

Thanks atmasters-- best of luck to you too!

And thanks also CS Carver. Duh-- breaking down the word ike that is so obvious. So obvious it would have never dawned on me in a million years! :lol:

[cs_carver]

I think the Wal-Mart house brand spells it to give you the hint.

I had someone else point it out to me. I can't take it at all--the pseudo kind. After three doses, I'm in a black pit of depression that takes three or four days to clear. I'd rather just sniff.

[Lisa N]

I think the Wal-Mart house brand spells it to give you the hint.

I had someone else point it out to me. I can't take it at all--the pseudo kind. After three doses, I'm in a black pit of depression that takes three or four days to clear. I'd rather just sniff.

And some people, like myself, have exactly the opposite effect. Taking a normal dose of Sudaphed (pseudoephedrine) has the equivalent effect on my body of taking speed and produces rapid heartbeat, palpitations and anxiety attacks. Like you, I'd rather sniff. ;)

[potatofree]

I've heard they're going to re-formulate Sudafed, removing the pseudoephedrine entirely, due mainly to the fact it's a major component of methamphetamine. Although limiting purchase quantities and making you ASK for it at the counter may have helped, it's certainly not slowing it down enough.

There are a lot of OTC meds that can kill you, as well as herbal supplements if abused or combined in the wrong way. A lot of people just can't seem to get over the idea that if it's OTC, it's totally safe, and if it's NATURAL, it's even better for you! COmbined with the mindset of "If a little is good, a LOT must be better" it's a recipe for disaster, IMO.

[atmasters]

The responce to this is great. I wonder do any of you take any form of suplament any diet pill ? Ephedra has been around for thousands of years and it just seems latly that because of a few people that abouse it and take like a hole bottle at once dies it is the worst thing on the market today. Yes it make s your heart beat a little faster so does running. I tell you I am in the army and I feel like I am going to die after a very fast 10 km run reather than taking a little ephedra. I understand that running is the bodys NATURAL way of getting your heart rate up but In edmonton wwe just had a healthy teen die of running the Terry Fox run and I bet a lot of people has died of running but for some reason we do not ban running? the same as coffie it makes your heart beat a lot faster caffine is what in most cases makes your heart beat faster in all these pills anyway and we do not ban coffie ? why is this ??

[cs_carver]

No, I don't take any supplemental "diet" pills. I take enough supplements, including some that help to stabilize blood sugar, but none that fall in the general category of stimulants. I do drink coffee. Coffee's effect on weight loss is mixed--some people find it helps (at least makes it worth getting out of bed in the morning, which certainly contributes to weight loss), others find it stalls.

The comparison of running--in general, most people CAN'T run themselves to death--your body will stop when it gets to be too much, and again in most cases, your heart will quickly recover. The problem with supplements is that they can make your heart beat too quickly, but if it's TOO quickly, there is NOTHING you can do about it except wait and hope you don't die before it's over.

MANY of the people badly affected by ephedra did NOT take too much.

If taking ephedra was the only way to lose weight, these boards would be remarkably empty.

[atmasters]

I agree to in some way cs_carver and lots of people die from running in the Canadian army since I have been in since 1997 there has been 3 deaths one from a long march that is why we can no longer do 10km two days in a row because of it. So people do die from running. I do agree it may not be the thing for some people but to give it a bad rap like that. One more example is I can eat Peanuts does not bother me at all my kids my wife can eat them as well. My little cousen on the other hand if a peanut comes in contact to his food he can die. It is hard and I think that there is a lot of people out there that has the same thing. But Peanuts do not have a bad rap for killing people. this has been around for thousands of years. But now it is hard to get because people gave it such a bad name. Yes there are some people out there that can not take it and a lot of people out there that can.

[ellipticer]

Hi atmasters, I'm also in Canada -- where ephedrine HCL is still sold over the counter in many supplement / nutrition stores... but where we still can't buy naturally occuring amino acids like L-Carnitine.

Anyway... about your ephedrine use-- you don't feel many of the effects because honestly you're not taking very much of it. The typical Ephedrine / Caffeine combination is 200 mg of Caffeine with *25 mg* of ephedrine HCL per dose. It sounds as if you're taking 1 where many people would take 3 per dose, 3 times per day. This is the "recommended" dosing which was based on a few university studies. In the studies, the participants received over 80mg per day. I will say that when I took ephedrine at my highest weight of 235, it was too much for my cardiovascular system to handle but at my current weight and fitness, it's not nearly as noticable.

At your low dosing of 8mg or 16mg per day, you likely will not feel any of the normally reported effects of increased heart rate or jitter. I am NOT suggesting that you should start taking more, but I felt I should point out why you likely don't "feel" the standard effects other than appetite suppression. However, I would recommend dropping the aspirin unless you take it for other reasons; it's no longer used in combination as it was proven to be worthless in conjunction.

BTW, I agree with you, it should not be as villified as it is currently in the media and society. Perhaps it should be regulated or prescribed, but it is not death in a bottle.

[Lanny]

Life's too short why risk it?

Think of your love ones that you will leave behind if anything happens to you. NOT WORTH IT!

[ellipticer]

Bah, why muddle up all of these emotional discussions with facts?

"During the last two years defined doses daily more than 9.6 million of the EC combination have been used in Denmark, but only 86 adverse drug reactions have been reported to the health authorities, of which none were cases of gastrointestinal bleeding or other kinds of haemorrhagic episodes . . . Both diastolic and systolic BP declined during treatment with both drugs"Pubmed source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8148931&dopt=Abstract


"most, if not all of the undesirable side-effects of ephedrine exhibit tachyphylaxis [desensitization], whereas the thermogenic effects are preserved or even enhanced by chronic treatment."Pubmed source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8384172&dopt=Abstract



Now, on the FDA's side, please read excerpts from the three studies that they used to make ephedrine illegal. NOTE THE AMOUNT USED by the persons-- more than 20 times the normal dose.

"He had exercise-induced and hyperventilation asthma since the age of 14. In 1958 he began to take a cough mixture containing ephedrine that relieved his bronchial spasms. He progressively increased his ephedrine intake, until he was drinking more than a bottle a day, each of which contained 400 mg of ephedrine. He was also taking liberal doses of prednisolone intermittently, depending on how he felt. In 1972 and 1973 he was treated in another hospital for cardiac failure but continued to take the cough mixture."

"Fourteen months after her initial presentation, she was referred for psychiatric treatment by her general practitioner. Her husband had overheard a telephone conversation during which his wife revealed the financial burden imposed by her drug taking habits. His unexpected support and acceptance enabled her to seek help. It emerged that she had been taking large quantities of ephedrine-containing compounds for 10 years because these gain her energy and a feeling of well-being, and counteracted chronic fatigue and depression. She had originally taken Ephedrobarbital, but had changed to Tabasan, as this was more easily available. She had ingested 10 to 30 tablets of Tabasan daily until the time of her admission to hospital for cardiac failure. She had not resumed taking Tabasan after discharge, but, three months later, she started taking increasing amounts of Phensedyl elixir. At the time of psychiatric referral, she was consuming three bottles (375 mL) daily." [540 mg ephedrine daily!]

"We report a case of dilated cardiomyopathy in a heavy ephedrine abuser. Case: a 28 y [year old] 143 kg female presented with a 3 week history of progressing dyspnea, dry cough, fatigue, and orthopnea. She admitted to taking 25 mg ephedrine tablets for 8 y to lose weight but denied any other chronic drug or alcohol use except tobacco (1 ppd x 12 y) [1 pack per day x 12 years] . . . One week after the onset of her symptoms she reduced her daily intake from 80 tablets to three tablets."


So these people were taking 400 to 2000 mg of ephedrine daily; as opposed to the 10 million Danish people who take the recommended dose of 75mg a day and have successfully lost weight with it for years and years with no reports of a death. If I take 20 times the recommended dose of ANYTHING in my bathroom cabinet, I bet I won't wake up from my experiment.

[atmasters]

I agree ELLIPTICER there are far more Over the counter drugs that are more harmfull to our bodys than Efhedra. and I bet most of the people that are saying that it is that bad for you are taking them I do only take a small dose of it every day just for the hunger depresser it gives the caffine I take gives me the energy. I also do not take it all the time I give the body a little rest. We talk about doing egg/meat fast's and I bet you that is not too healthy for your body eather but we do it just to help up get over some bumps in our weight lose. The efhedra is not death in a bottle you need to use it as it was intended for. not to abuse it. Like I said earler it is not he magic pill but to save $$ it is the only thing that will work. I have spent lots of $$ on other products that say it will do the same but they do not work at all. But we are all diffrent maybe I was blessed and my body can take Efedra and some people are not so lucky and have bad reactions. It comes from Mother nature her self same as Peanuts and they have killed a lot of people as well. there are members of my family that can not even be around peanuts if even the smallest drop of peanut gets in there food it is offf to the hospital and we do not band the selling of them. That is Because not all of us have that reaction.