Explaining ECC/PECC/Fiber and Carbs

[tamarian]

For those viewing in ECC mode, you will notice that the ECC has been replaced with PECC, and has a hyperlink to explainin what it is here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/faq.php?faq=myplan_nutrition#faq_pecc

This is a FAQ entry, with the following text:

What is PECC and why does not always subtract fiber?
PECC stands for Possible Effective Carb Count.

With the recent popularity of low-carb diets, many manufacturers have started subtracting fiber from the carb count. Label regulations in many countries allow this subtraction.

As some low-carb plan instruct followers that they may subtract the fiber count from the total carb count, this, this was called (Effective Carb Count).

However, since the food labels now have started subtracting the fiber from the total carb count, some low-carb dieters may not be aware of this, and would still re-subtract the fiber from the already reduce carb count.

Example: A manufacturer may list an item as having 10 grams of carbohydrates and 9 grams of fiber.

The dieter may assume that this item has an effective carb count of 1 gram.

But this is incorrect, since the manufacturer has already subtracted the fiber.

The food item actually had 19 grams of carbohydrates.

How do we know if the manufacturer has already subtracted the fiber?

By calculating the coloric composition of the food item.

The label in the above example would have stated 40 calories from 10 grams of carbs. Since 1 gram of carbs contains about 4 calories, this indicates that the fiber has alreay been subtracted (since the 40 calories account for 10 grams of carbs).

Had the label stated 19 grams of carbs, you would expect 76 calories. But since the label stated 40 calories, this confirms the fiber has already been subtracted.

The My P.L.A.N. tool displays the ECC as PECC to make it clear that this is a calculated value based on the label information.

Why show this value?

By default, the My P.L.A.N. tool does not display the PECC value. You can turn it on from your "Edit Settings" page from inside My P.L.A.N.

Please let me know if you have any suggested additions/edits to make it as clear as possible to other members.

Wa'il

[jeanyyy]

Hmmm, just tried entering an Atkins Morning Start bar as a custom food and got the following:

- Entered: Cals 170, Fat 10 g, Carbs 13 g, Fiber 1 g.
- Package says net carbs are 2 g per bar due to subtraction of fiber (1 g), glycerine (4 g), cellulose (1 g), sugar alcohol (1 g) and polydextrose (4 g).

What would be the best way to enter this to end up with the 2 net carbs showing? No matter what I try, I end up with the calorie error message. I suppose I could change the calories downwards to fudge...

Also, when I went to Edit Options and changed to PECC, all that did was change the title on the column from Fiber to PECC. The numbers didn't change at all. Obviously, that's not right. Maybe I would have to wait till tomorrow for the change to really take effect?

[tamarian]

Effective carb count means carbs without fiber.

This is done to make the numbers "add up" to a correct calorie count.

Subtrating sugar alcohol, glycerine and other content is essentially a marketing concept, and not approved for labeling, and does not add up to a correct calorie count.

If someone really wants to show and calculate based on custom subtraction (i.e. other than fiber), they will need to reduce the calorie count by the equivelant of the carbs subtracted by the manufacturer. This would be illegal to do by the manufacturer (reducing the actual calorie), but you can do that as a custom food entry.

So in the above example, the manufacturer is subtracting 10 grams of carbs other than fiber, which comes to 40 calories. So if you enter 130 calories, the tool should accept it and show 2 grams of carbs.

Wa'il

[dane]

Hi Wa'l.
I was using the fiber listed separately, and doing the subtraction, and thought it was working out right. Now you say that sometimes the fiber is subtracted, so really PECC should accurrately reflect number of carbs, right?

Well, occasionally I am finding things that show a normal carb count, and then an absurdly low PECC, so I have to go to the USDA database to check.

Ex. I am entering some white flour in a recipe. Here's what MyPLAN tells me for 20g flour: (values are for C/P/F/PECC/cals)Wheat flour, white, all-purpose, enriched, unbleached 15.26 / 2.07 / 0.20 / 0.5 /73
Shouldn't the PECC be closer to the 15.26 value?

Now, the same 20g in the USDA database list it as 14.84g C, 0.5g fiber. My PLAN is set to PECC showing, not fiber, BTW. :daze:

[tamarian]

Hi Wa'l.
I was using the fiber listed separately, and doing the subtraction, and thought it was working out right. Now you say that sometimes the fiber is subtracted, so really PECC should accurrately reflect number of carbs, right?

Well, occasionally I am finding things that show a normal carb count, and then an absurdly low PECC, so I have to go to the USDA database to check.

Ex. I am entering some white flour in a recipe. Here's what MyPLAN tells me for 20g flour: (values are for C/P/F/PECC/cals)
Shouldn't the PECC be closer to the 15.26 value?

Now, the same 20g in the USDA database list it as 14.84g C, 0.5g fiber. My PLAN is set to PECC showing, not fiber, BTW. :daze:

It was actualy showing fiber, for some reason, not ECC., I'll check why, and untill then, it's show fiber only.

But you might be comparing two different items from here and the USDA, since we both use the identical database, USDA-=SR17. You can tell by the item's number (NDB), to ensure you're comparing the same item.

Wa'il

[dane]

okeydoke. thx!

[tamarian]

O.k., I just confirmed it was showing fiber, but labeling it as PECC. This was due to a change I made last night, and is now back to normal.

Wa'il

[jeanyyy]

I hate to tell you this, but it is back to showing fiber but labelling it PECC. Earlier today, it was working properly, however.

[tamarian]

I hate to tell you this, but it is backa to showing fiber but labelling it PECC. Earlier today, it was working properly, however.

Are you sure? I've checked your listing, and it looked correct. Clcik on the PECC label for more details.

If you still think it's wrong, please let me know which day and which item, and I'll double-check.

Wa'il

[jeanyyy]

Yes, I'm sure. I just changed my default back to PECC (when I realized it wasn't working correctly, I had put it to Fiber again).

The Atkins Morning Start Strawberry bar is showing as 13 PECC when it is set up as Carbs=13 and Fiber=11. When I have my default set to Fiber, that does show up correctly.

Earlier today, the PECC of the bar was showing up correctly, for today's listing and yesterday's. So it must be related to a change made today?

[tamarian]

Yes, I'm sure. I just changed my default back to PECC (when I realized it wasn't working correctly, I had put it to Fiber again).

The Atkins Morning Start Strawberry bar is showing as 13 PECC when it is set up as Carbs=13 and Fiber=11. When I have my default set to Fiber, that does show up correctly.

Earlier today, the PECC of the bar was showing up correctly, for today's listing and yesterday's. So it must be related to a change made today?

What does it show now? If you could post the carbs, protein, fiber, fat and calories, I'd be able to tell which one is right.

Wa'il

[jeanyyy]

This is how the item is set up:

Basic Data
Energy 190 kcal
Energy 2150 kj
Carbohydrate, by difference 13.00 g
Sugars, total 1.00 g
Fiber, total dietary 11.0 g
Sugar alcohol 1.00 g
Protein 12.00 g
Total lipid (fat) 10.00 g
Fatty acids, total saturated 4.000 g

and it is showing on today's listing as (Carbs/Protein/Fat/PECC/Cals):

13.0 12.0 10.0 13.0 190
with the second 13.0 being PECC

I hope this helps.

[tamarian]

This is how the item is set up:

Basic Data
Energy 190 kcal
Energy 2150 kj
Carbohydrate, by difference 13.00 g
Sugars, total 1.00 g
Fiber, total dietary 11.0 g
Sugar alcohol 1.00 g
Protein 12.00 g
Total lipid (fat) 10.00 g
Fatty acids, total saturated 4.000 g

and it is showing on today's listing as (Carbs/Protein/Fat/PECC/Cals):

That would be the correct PECC, 13, since the fiber has already been subtracted in the carb count.

Wa'il

13.0 12.0 10.0 13.0 190
with the second 13.0 being PECC

I hope this helps.

That would be the correct PECC, 13, since the fiber has already been subtracted in the carb count.

Wa'il

[jeanyyy]

Thanks, Wa'il!