The Great Vitamin D Experiment

[Zuleikaa]

I’ve been doing a lot of research of the benefits of vitamin D supplementation and have been taking it now for 2 months with great results (I have severe SAD). I'm not taking any other meds for SAD though I was last year and didn't feel this good. I’m curious if others would have positive results also. Therefore I’m inviting you to join me in the great vitamin D experiment and report on your results here.

The Experiment
Now through April 1You stay on whatever plan you're currently on.
Take in 3-5 divided doses/day from the time you arise until 6 pm. Taking vitamin D past 6 pm (or whatever your equivalent day’s schedule is) can result in sleeplessness.

Range is based upon severity of underlying symptoms and/or vitamin D test results.
Vitamin D 2400 – 4000 IU
GTF Chromium 600 mcg
Calcium 1200 – 2000 mg
(It's recommended that calcium carbonate be taken with food and that calcium citrate be taken without food and at least 1 hour before food for best absorbtion rates)
Magnesium ½ calcium dose
Leucine 16 mg/kilo or 2.2 pounds of body weight
Lsoleucine ½ leucine dose
Valine ½ leucine dose

Take whatever supplements you regularly take in addition to the above. Levels of the above vitamins are in addition to whatever is in the multi you are taking. Only adjust if you take any of the above vitamins separately.

Sites for supplement purchase:
swansonvitamins.com
vitaminworld.com
vitacost.com
vitaminshoppe.com
vitaminstore.com

Recommendations
Ingest at least 90 ounces of water/day.
Use only the following fat sources where possible: butter, tallow, coconut, olive, omega 3s, flax, and fish oils.

CAUTIONS
--Do not join the experiment if you have damaged liver or kidneys without your doctor’s permission/supervision.

--Only join the experiment if you have one or more of the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency. These are SAD, depression, anxiety, obsessive behaviors, PCOS, infertility, fibromyalgia, CFS, chronic pain, musculoskeletal pain, autoimmune diseases, intestinal diseases, Crohns, heart disease, impaired thyroid, osteoporosis, high blood pressure, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, tuberculosis, inflammatory bowel disease, diabetes, or cancer.

--http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/nutrition_vitaminD.html. If you can afford to get tested before starting the experiment, please do so. The correct test to order is 25(OH)D, also called 25-hydroxyvitamin D. Make sure this is the test you get. Labs often give the test for 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, the active hormone. This test is the wrong test as it offers no meaningful data regarding D status. Optimal values of 25(OH)D are 40-50 ng/ml. “Lab One offers the least expensive testing I have found nationwide and is available in most states. Your physician can reach them at 1-800-646-7788. The test is 25-hydroxyvitamin D. The Lab One test number, just to be sure you get the right test, is #3247. Rarely does insurance cover the cost for this test, which is about $60 including lab fees. Other labs I have queried charge $100-180 for the same test.”

--Only natural vitamin D (D3) should be used. Natural vitamin D has been found to be non toxic at levels of 50k/day. Manmade vitamin D (D2) has been found toxic at 20,000 IU/day. Natural vitamin D (D3) is better utilized by the body.

--Cod liver oil should not be used for this as the amount of vitamin A ingested to achieve the correct vitamin D dose would be too high. If the vitamin D has vitamin A, it should not have more than 1000 IU of A per 400 IU of vitamin D.

Reactions you Might Have
--For those with pain due to injury, pain can recur at the previously injured site as corrective healing occurs due to supplementation.
--More energy
--Less Depression
--Less Anxiety
--More even disposition
--Easier and more regular bowel movements
--Fewer digestive problems
--Less Pain
--Weight Loss
--Less Edema and swelling
--Clearer skin
--Regular menses
--Fewer PMS symptoms

Please keep track of symptoms/improvements in your journal and here as time passes. I am really interested in what the range of reactions might be.

[Zuleikaa]

Now my reactions. I've been supplementing with vitamin D for about two months now. I have few symptoms of SAD, only a bit of tiredness at dark, no depression at all yet. My body feels a bit more flexible/fluid. My bowels are very regular and soft. I sometimes have BMs twice in a day. I haven't had indigestion. I have more energy and feel more alert. I don't feel the cold like I used to and can even wear sleeveless and silky nightgowns to bed!! I could never do that before. I would freeze, lol!!!

[persimmon]

Zuleikaa, I am interested in doing this: I suffer from depression and am hypothyroid. I had done some reading on vitamin D just yesterday. I don't have any yet but will get some asap.
Elizabeth

[Sango]

Count me in...

I'm curious about these:

Leucine 16 mg/kilo or 2.2 pounds of body weight
Lsoleucine ½ leucine dose
Valine ½ leucine dose


What do they do? Also, do you have a suggestion for me as to what level of D to try, and in how many doses? Two or three a day is about all I can manage. Today I took 2400 with rm and then 1200 just a while ago.

[Zuleikaa]

Leucine
Lsoleucine ½ leucine dose
Valine ½ leucine dose

Are branched chain amino acids that go with vitamin D and make the D build muscle instead of fat.

People need 4,000 IU/day of vitamin D from all sources: sun, food, and supplements. So if you live up north and it's fall, winter or spring ignore the sun factor (the sun is not strong enough to be beneficial). Look at your food and subtract the amount that you get from food. It's probably not that much D. You need the higher range if you have two or more indications, your symptoms of any one indication are severe, you have dark skin or African American heritage, or if you are of Northern European heritage.

Given that I know your situation, I would suggest you go with 4,000 IU/day.
It's important to obtain the appropriate dose, so that means if you have to cut the dose to two on a particular day to ensure that then that's better than being underdosed. DO NOT TAKE 1 DOSE. These vitamins are more effective in divided doses so I would urge you to try to make three doses consistently.

Here's some info on vitamin D and on food sources food sources which contain it.

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/nutrition_vitaminD.html

[adukart]

I am going to keep an eye on this thread. Maybe start up the challange after my hives go away and I can start my vitamins again, but for now "I am watching you". :)

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
I'll be starting D3 tomorrow, at a lower dose at first in case of adverse reaction. I don't have the leucine, isoleucine or valine. I'm already taking:
1 multivitamin w/out iron
2 B-50
3 Calcium/magnesium/zinc
600 mg CoQ10 (for CFS and migraines)
3 to 6 g Omega 3-6-9 (for CFS and migraines)
2 odorless garlic (for high cholesterol :thup: works well!)
20 meq potassium
400 IU natural E

Right now, my metabolism and energy resemble a train wreck! I am taking estrogen for menopausal symptoms, and T4 for hypothyroidism. I have hypoglycemia, chronic fatigue syndrome, hypertension (controlled by meds), and migraines. The migraines seem to get worse around December through February, so this might be a form of SAD. Let's see what happens! I found D3 as 400 IU gels and will start at 3 a day.

[Zuleikaa]

Welcome Persimmon, Sango and Kittenlady!!!

Here's the most complete list of ills fingered by vitamin D deficiency.

Kittenlady
As you can see just about all your ills are on the list. I hope this is the answer for you!!

Vitamin D deficiency indicated in
Alcoholism
Anxiety
Arthritis
Autoimmune diseases
Birth defects
Bone diseases
Bone pain
Burning in mouth
Calcium deposits
Cancer--prostate, colon, and breast
Celiac-Sprue
Coeliac
Crohn's
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Chronic Pain
Cystic fibrosis
Depression
Diabetes
Diarrhea
Enzymatic diseases
Fatigue
Fibromyalgia
Graves' disease
Heart disease
Hernia
High blood pressure
High Cholesterol
Impaired wound healing
inflammatory bowel disease
Insomnia
Intestine
Irritability
Joint pain
Kidney
Liver
Lupus
Malabsorption
Migraine
Multiple sclerosis
Muscle pain
Myopia
Nervousness
Obsessive Disorders
Osteomalacea
Osteoporosis
Panic Attacks
Parkinson's
Psoriasis
Rheumatoid arthritis
Rickets
Scalp sweating
Schizophrenia
Thyroid
Tuberculosis

[KittenLady]

Oh, yeah, they're all on there (I consider hypoglycemia and diabetes the opposite sides of the same coin, involving the same hormonal system).

I didn't mention that I am from Northern European descent on my dad's side -- descended from the Vikings! (I read your posts in the "Supplements" section!) I get a lot of natural light onto my eyes (being an artist, I get broad-spectrum lightbulbs and work in a loft with lots of sunlight), so I probably end up making up for most of the SAD symptoms. But, I sunburn easily, so I constantly protect myself from the sun. There's less ozone up here, so the UV is stronger at this altitude. So, I'm a fair-skin who gets very little D3 formed from sun exposure.

I also forgot to list supplements: Ester-C with bioflavanoids, at least 500 mg, often up to 2 g a day
quercetin -- 1500 mg/day

Taking 3 caps a day, along with my multi-vitamin, will give me a start at 1600 IU a day. Since I go to bed later (usually between 11:30 and 12:30), I'll take my last one at 8 PM -- does that make sense?

So far, I have a moderate headache going. I rate pain on a scale of 0 (no pain) to 10 (awful pain). So, I have a #4 headache, occasionally peaking to #7. I often get a "hangover" after a long-lasting migraine. It takes several days, sometimes a few weeks, of anti-inflammatories to get the inflammation out of my brain and blood vessels.

I'll give an entire analysis of my day later.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I recommend not taking D less than 4 hours before bed so that sounds fine. I really hope this works out for you as you seem to have multiple and severe indications.

Good luck!!!

[KittenLady]

Thanks, Zule! So far, so good. At least as far as side-effects go -- none to report. :thup: I took my last D3 a few minutes ago (around 6:45). I'm trying to get my husband interested because he gets SAD really badly. He's showing symptoms already -- tired, a little down, a bit cranky. I think he's waiting to see what happens with me. :lol:

My headache is hovering around a 5, and has been doing so for a couple of hours. No other symptoms to report for today.

Looks like you and I are the guinea pigs so far. Wouldn't it be really fabulous if it helped even some of my symptoms. So glad it's helping your SAD, Zule!

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
Glad the D had no side effects. Maybe in a couple of days you can increase the dose a bit, taking the pills two at a time during the day (I know, what day, lol!!). I hope you can get the complex chain amino acids (leucine, etc). They help the D build muscle.

I hope your DH gives it a try too. I'm telling you I don't know myself this year!!

I'm interested in hearing the benefits you have after about a week. I'm really hoping this alleviates/cures your symptoms.

Wouldn't that be a miracle!!! And it's all natural!!!

[KittenLady]

This afternoon was Son of Migraine (you know, like "Son of Frankenstein," "Bride of the Atom," etc.). A bad B movie. No aura, just really bad pain.

Zule, your suggestion last year that the increased migraines could be a form of SAD is making sense. I've been keeping headache records for a few years now, and I compared different months for the last 3 years. I've counted days when I had a severity #8 or above, just for August, September, and October, and averaged 3 years of data. August averaged 4 days; September averaged 9 days; and October averaged 12 days. Most of Septembers' migraine days occurred around and after Equinox. And classic migraines (with auras) occurred on Sept 25 '02, Oct 23 '03, and both Oct 15 and 16 '04. I was one day off in my one post -- I had a severe common migraine on Oct 22 this year. Close enough. I didn't look at Novembers' data yet, and I won't do so yet -- I don't want to "expect" migraines and skew the D3 results.

I don't think the migraine today was from the D3, but I'm going to stay at 2000 IU per day for a little while just to make sure. It could be the aggravation of old injuries that's been mentioned. The headache did seem to rise from my neck.

Hope tomorrow is better. :thup:

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I don't want to say I told you so, lol!! Sorry you have to go through the pain though at least it's making sense to you. Not much comfort I know.

I really hope that the D3 is the answer. I understand you not wanting to increase the D3 right away. Give it some time to get into your system before an increase. It's most important to take the D3 consistently every day than to increase it right away.

Of course you should be at 4000 IU, but you'll work up to it.

Now that Steeved has joined we'll get a handle on a man's perspective of D's benefits. I don't think he's interested that PMS symptoms are supposed to be relieved, lol!!!

[KittenLady]

Since I don't have "the parts" any more, I hope I don't get more regular menses! :lol:

[KittenLady]

A concern that I have: Vitamin D is fat-soluble, so the excess will be stored in our (ample) fat stores (my thighs).

What happens when we lose weight and burn that fat? I haven't seen that addressed anywhere, and I'm optimistic that we'll all lose body fat. Is there any study that shows what would happen? Are we going to assume that the loss of body fat will be slow enough so that we can metabolize the D released from the fat? If so, we're all going to have to be very careful not to burn fat too quickly, as in the ketosis stage of Atkins Induction.

I had that trouble with Induction. I worked in the lab for so long that I still have fat-soluble organic solvents stored in my body fat (hmmm... why do I get migraines? Geeeee... I wonder). When I did Induction, I had the most horrible migraine for 5 weeks because of all these toxins going into my bloodstream. I can't deal with the extreme low carbs/fast fat burning of Atkins because of this.

Any data on this in your vast research, Zule?

[steveed]

It's only been one day but I did get results. No cravings for wine at night...I went to the store and passed it by. Didn't obsess about food in my head. Didn't take things as personally at work. Is this actual chemistry or is this the power of suggestion?

Time will tell!

[KittenLady]

Today I appear to have a gastrointestinal virus -- diarrhea and nausea, no vomiting (yet) and no fever. DH and I ate the same things yesterday, and he's fine, so it's not food poisoning. I can't say if it's the result of increased D or not, so I'm just waiting it out. Blech. I'm still at 2000 IU a day.

[steveed]

I would discontinue the whole shebang immediately and wait for the bug to pass. It might be a reaction to D or it might not but it's not worth chancing at this point. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling this isn't working for you. Dehydration is no joking matter. It could be an allergic reaction or any number of other things. Did you know that D3 is cultivated from ergot fungus?

Wait to try it again after you get the vitamin D test to know for sure.:thup:

IMHO Dee, it ain't worth it. Concentrate on getting better.

Side Note: I halved the dosage today because of a slightly nauseous feeling and a bit of "edginess". Now I feel better. This new half dosage seems to be my friend, at least for now. I think Zule has the right idea...now it's just fine tuning the dosage.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
Your immune system is impaired from all your symptoms. I thought you had mentioned in an earlier post that you were getting ill. I would wait until you're in a healthy place to use large doses of vitamin D. For now, why don't you just take 800 IU with proportionate cal and mag until you're better. The whimpiest docs recommend 800 IU in the winter. Like Steve said, being sick is no fun and defeats the purpose of the experiment.

I found some info for you and Steveed, Kittenlady on vitamin D storage and toxicity. I posted this in my journal before.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/apr/3/vitamin_d_grant.htm

Is it possible for the body to store enough vitamin D from summer sun exposure to last through several months of winter?
Vitamin D is stored in the blood for a few weeks and in the fat for a few months. Serum 25(OH)D levels generally drop by 20 percent to 30 percent during winter in midlatitudes [21] and the prevalence of hypovitaminosis D increases markedly [22]. Low winter/springtime serum 25(OH)D levels are associated with the development of a number of autoimmune diseases (e.g., autism [23] and type 1 diabetes mellitus [24]) and schizophrenia [25]; cancer detection increases in winter/spring as well [26]).

Although Mercola cautions about vitamin D toxicity, he later recants by this:

http://www.mercola.com/2003/dec/27/vitamin_d_quiz.htm

How Much Vitamin D is Too Much? Take This Vitamin D Quiz to Find Out!

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

There is much confusion about vitamin D and vitamin D toxicity. I encourage you to take the quiz and even pass it along to your doctor, as very few U.S. physicians are aware of vitamin D’s importance.

Winter is the time of year when most of us in the United States need to be very diligent about keeping our vitamin D levels within optimal levels. I recommend that most take a high-quality cod liver oil, which is an excellent source of vitamin D, regularly from fall until early spring. However, it is essential to understand that in order to know how much vitamin D you should be taking, you should get your blood level checked. If you use beneficial products like cod liver oil without doing blood tests for vitamin D levels, you should keep the dose at one to two teaspoons per day to prevent overdosing.

This is a major point: excess vitamin D will cause, not prevent, osteoporosis and hardening of your arteries. Please be very careful with cod liver oil. If you are unable to obtain vitamin D testing, then please do not exceed one to two teaspoons of cod liver oil. So please do yourself a favor--read the article on vitamin D testing and be sure to have your level measured. As I mentioned above, nearly all physicians are not aware how to have this checked and how to interpret the normal reference ranges, so I encourage you to print out the article on vitamin D testing not only for your own records but also for your doctor so he or she can become aware of this vitally important nutrient.

The Vitamin D Council, the non-profit group that contributed the excellent quiz below, is another great resource for vitamin D information. The Vitamin D Council is a group of citizens concerned about vitamin D deficiency and the diseases associated with that deficiency. I encourage you to check out their website and sign up for their informative newsletter. Their goal is an important one: to draw attention to the problem of vitamin D deficiency through the education of professionals, the media, government officials and average citizens.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By John Jacob Cannell, M.D.
Executive director of The Vitamin D Council

1. If an otherwise healthy adult tried to kill himself by taking an entire bottle (250 capsules) of 1,000 iu cholecalciferol, which of the following would happen?

a) The person would die within 24 hours from severe hypercalcemia and widespread calcinosis.
b) If the person received intensive treatment for hypercalcemia he may survive.
c) Hypercalcemia would be severe but require only supportive treatment.
d) Such doses are called "Stoss" therapy and are occasionally used therapeutically although they do not replicate normal physiology. As most Americans are vitamin D deficient, such a one-time dose would probably be a health benefit for the majority of Americans.

The correct answer is d. One of the most recent examples is the use of stoss therapy to reduce fracture rates in the elderly (100,000 IU of oral cholecalciferol every four months for five years) by Dr. Trivedi and colleagues (University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine) published in the British Medical Journal. How high do you think average 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels were in the subjects after they received 100,000 IU of cholecalciferol every four months for five years? Answer: about 29 ng/ml, still mildly deficient! (Source)

2. Acute poisoning leading to rapid death from ingestion of vitamin d capsules (successful suicide attempt),

a) Has frequently been reported in the literature.
b) Has occasionally been reported in the literature
c) Has never been reported in the literature.

The answer is C, as far as we know. If you know of a report of a successful suicide attempt, accidental death or murder from overdosing on vitamin D supplements, let us know. We do know of one interesting case that demonstrates the relative safety of vitamin D. Industrial strength crystalline vitamin D was added to table sugar, either by accident or on purpose. The two men poisoned were getting about 1,700,000 IU of cholecalciferol every day for seven months. Again, they were getting at least, 1,700,000 units [440 times the Institute of Medicine's toxicity warning (LOAEL)] every day for seven months! Both got very sick but recovered. (Source)

3. True of false: water has a higher (safer) therapeutic index (the median lethal dose divided by the median effective dose) than cholecalciferol?

a) True
b) False
c) About the same

The answer is b. Although exact human studies have never been done for obvious ethical reasons, water intoxication leading to hyponatremia, cerebral edema and occasional death is common in psychiatric populations and may become evident if one drank 80 glasses of water a day, instead of eight. Heaney, et al, recently showed healthy humans utilize about 4,000 IU of cholecalciferol a day, if they can get it. 40,000 IU a day is certainly not acutely toxic. In fact, some research reported that young white humans get up to 50,000 IU from one full body summer sun exposure. (Source)

4. If a person totally avoided the sun and regularly took two standard multivitamins a day for several years, each containing 400 iu of ergocalciferol, as his sole source of vitamin d, he would,

a) Rapidly become vitamin D toxic and require medical attention for symptoms of hypercalcemia.
b) Slowly become vitamin D toxic and eventually become symptomatic.
c) Slowly develop hypervitaminosis D but remain asymptomatic.
d) Obtain a healthful vitamin D blood level.
e) Inexorably become vitamin D deficient.

The answer is e. Two standard multivitamins contain 800 IU of ergocalciferol, equivalent to about 500 IU of cholecalciferol. If you totally avoided the sun, as many dermatologists routinely recommend with impunity (so far), one would have enough vitamin D to prevent rickets and osteomalacia but would still have a suboptimal 25-hydroxyvitamin D and thus be at risk to develop numerous other chronic inflammatory diseases, not just osteoporosis. For a review of such illnesses, see Zittermann. (Source)

The key is "totally avoided the sun." Remember, most people get 90 percent of their vitamin D requirement from very casual sun exposure, like the sunlight that strikes the uncovered and unsunblocked face, arms and hands when you walk to your car. Vitamin D production in the skin is that fast. Of course, some people follow their doctor's advice and take obsessive steps to prevent sunlight from ever striking their unprotected skin. A host of chronic inflammatory diseases may await the patients who follow such advice, just as trial lawyers may await the doctors that give it.

5. Of the three medications listed below, which is the safest in overdose?

a) Vitamin D (250 of the 1,000 IU capsules)
b) Aspirin (250 of the 325 mg tablets)
c) Tylenol (250 of the 500 mg tablets)

The answer is a. In fact 250,000 IU of vitamin D at one time is used as "stoss" therapy, especially in Europe. For a review of many such studies and the doses needed to achieve toxic 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels, see Vieth. (Source)

6. Which drug has the highest (safest) therapeutic index?

a) Depakote
b) Lithium
c) Coumadin
d) Dilantin
e) Synthroid
f) Theophylline
g) Cholecalciferol

The answer is g. All of the medication listed except cholecalciferol have narrow therapeutic indices and can easily cause death in overdose. Such is not true for vitamin D and, because of the huge number of capsules needed, is not likely unless one has the industrial strength compound. See below for a sample calculation.

7. In 1997, adams and lee wrote a widely publicized paper about vitamin d toxicity in the annals of internal medicine. The adams and lee paper was accompanied by a stern editorial warning of the dangers of vitamin d written by marriott of the national institute of health. The three authors,

a) Correctly diagnosed all five of the patients
b) Were thanked by nationally acclaimed vitamin D scientists for their contributions to understanding vitamin D toxicity.
c) Showed frightening ignorance about vitamin D toxicity and appeared not to know the difference between the two standard deviation upper limit of a Gaussian distribution and levels known to reflect vitamin D toxicity.

The Adams and Lee paper and the editorial by Dr. Marriott are a continued embarrassment to the usually stellar Annals of Internal Medicine. However, the papers are instructive in that they remind us that otherwise educated and intelligent research physicians can confuse the two standard deviation upper limits of a Gaussian distribution with toxicity. For a more detailed critique, as well as several other problematic articles about vitamin D, see this link.

8. By sunbathing for a few minutes in the noonday summer sun, one can easily obtain five times the vitamin d toxicity warning (lowest observed adverse effects level or loael) of the institute of medicine's food and nutrition board.

a) True
b) False

The answer is a, at least for young whites. The IOM lists the Lowest Observed Adverse Effects Level (LOAEL) as 3800 IU for vitamin D. Studies show young whites can make between 10,000 to 25,000 IU in a single, relatively brief, sun exposure. Numerous factors affect the body's ability to make such high amounts of cholecalciferol, with age, race, latitude, clothing, season and sunblock being the main factors. (Source)

9. If humans are twice as sensitive as the most sensitive mammal tested (male rats), then a 110-pound human would have to injest 88,000 capsules (352 bottles containing 250 of the 1,000 iu capsules) of cholecalciferol in order to have a 50 percent chance of dying (ld50) from an acute overdose.

a) True
b) False

False, about 168 bottles would do it. The LD50 for male rats (the most sensitive mammal tested) is 42 mg/kg. If humans were twice as sensitive that would be an LD50 of 21mg/kg or 21,000 ug/kg or 1,050,000 ug for a 50 kg human which is 42,000,000 units or 42,000 capsules or 168 bottles of the 250 capsules of 1,000 IU cholecalciferol. [Dorman DC (1990) Toxicology of selected pesticides, drugs, and chemicals. Anticoagulant, cholecalciferol, and bromethalin-based rodenticides. Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract 20(2):339-352].

10) As most american blacks suffer from vitamin d deficiency, some black activists feel unwarranted fear and scare techniques about vitamin d toxicity may be racially motivated. That is, racists may be intentionally repeating and promulgating vitamin d toxicity scares in order to prevent relevant government agencies from dealing with the problem of widespread vitamin d deficiency in the black community.

a) True
b) False

True. The recent NIH conference on vitamin D was most interesting in this regard. Very few Blacks were attendees but several were helping with registration. As the conference progressed into the second day, Blacks helping with registration began to listen to the lectures and became increasingly angry as speaker after speaker pointed out how vitamin D deficiency adversely impacts the black community. One young black man told a sad story of how his infant son was recently diagnosed with rickets. Although the 1997 Food and Nutrition Board was an all-white board, most of the Blacks were angry that nothing is being done currently.

Certainly, it is true that one of the most effective ways to paralyze the government into continued inaction on the pandemic of vitamin D deficiency would be to raise false and frightening toxicity fears. However, remember that it is easy to suspect vast conspiracies, but in the end it is usually simple incompetence. That is certainly true of the mistakes I've made in my life.

11. In the most recent case of vitamin d toxicity described in the literature, a man recovered uneventfully after taking a health supplement every day for two years that contained 156,000 iu of cholecalciferol.

a) True
b) False

True. Actually, it is likely he took more than that. An industrial manufacturing error was implicated. Such reports help confirm what is known from animal data and that is that it takes a lot of vitamin D to hurt you, but it can be done. (Source)

12. One of the world's foremost authorities on vitamin d metabolism and physiology recently said, "worrying about vitamin d toxicity is like worrying about drowning when you are dying of thirst."

a) True
b) False

True. The quote is from one of the vitamin D scientists listed below. One of the problems is that there are so few vitamin D scientists in the world, that misconceptions, especially about toxicity, are the rule rather than the exception, even among medical researchers.

In 1999, Dr. Reinhold Vieth, perhaps the world's leading expert on vitamin D toxicity and metabolism, wrote a systematic and scholarly review of the world's literature debunking the hysteria surrounding fears of vitamin D toxicity. (Source)

Later, Vieth demonstrated the safety of daily dosing with 4,000 IU of cholecalciferol, a dose that exceeded the current toxicity warnings of the IOM's FNB. (Source)

Two years later, Heaney, et al, demonstrated the safety of doses up to 10,000 IU a day while also demonstrating for the first time that healthy humans utilize 3,000 to 5,000 IU of cholecalciferol a day (10 times the Institute of Medicine Food and Nutrition Board's current recommended Adequate Intake). What the human body does with such high amounts of cholecalciferol remains unknown, but we suspect Nature has a plan. (Source)

In a reply to critics of his paper, Vieth challenged anyone in the scientific community to present even a single case of vitamin D toxicity in adults from ingestion of up to 1,000 ug (40,000 IU) a day of cholecalciferol saying, "I welcome any discussion of evidence of harm with vitamin D3 (not D2) in adults at doses <1,000 ug/d." Vieth's challenge remains unanswered and his work remains unrefuted. (Source)

Another concuring view quoting actual studies:
http://stopcancer.com/Barefoot&DeWi...cerDefense2.htm

The conclusion of an actual study of the safety of vit D3 at different levels
http://www.direct-ms.org/articles/V...SafetyStudy.pdf

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
When I first started taking D I had a couple of days of 3-4 bowel movements of loose stools. Up until then I had been constipated. Now I definitely have one and I might have two BMs. They are always nice and soft and I don't strain or get constipated at all. TMI?

[persimmon]

I am still in on this experiment. Thing is, it'll be Friday before I can get my vitamin D (I live in a very small town). I will report in as soon as there is something to report.
Elizabeth

[KittenLady]

Thanks, folks. I remember reading that quiz. I'll think about cutting back if I feel like this in the morning. I took all 2000 IU today already. If I wait to start this again until I'm feeling good, it might not happen -- I'm doing this because I don't feel good. I'm a little dizzy and slightly nauseated, but the other symptoms are going away. Could be the D, the CFS or a short-lived virus.

We can do a "real" scientific study here! So far, it appears that higher doses of D3 causes nausea in artists. :lol:

Actually, that's what ends up happening in clinical trials. The people involved must report any and all symptoms, which is why the PDR lists so many side-effects, like "flu" (a virus, not a side-effect), "headache" (all the headache meds list headache as a side-effect), and "yawn."

It took me a few moments to figure out TMI:
*Three Mile Island?
*Theoretical and Methodological Institute?
*Too Much Info?
I voted on the last one. ;) Hope everyone is doing better tomorrow.

[Sango]

Sorry to bail on you guys, but I am trying to figure out what in the hell has been causing all of the weight I lost this past year to pile back on in just over a month. I haven't been perfect on plan, but normally that would just cause me to stall, not gain 15 lbs. It could be so many factors: stress, less activity, change of season, etc. Just in case I am stopping the D for now. I am losing my mind.

[KittenLady]

Steve ~ It's ergocalciferol that's derived from ergot. That's not the vitamin D to be taking. It's also known as D2, and it can become very toxic. Cholecalciferol, or D3, is the correct form of vitamin for humans -- I think it's purified from fish oil. It's much safer.

Zule ~ Recently, I've had those severe migraines, and a reaction to the flu shot at the beginning of October. It was Quickdeb who said she was getting ill -- she must've sent it over the Internet! :D I'm just having trouble figuring out the difference between a "bug" and CFS, since they often feel the same, even the achy feverish feeling. I think that's why they call it "Yuppie Flu," since it feels like a flu bug. Add a new vitamin dose on top of it all, and I don't know what's doing what. :daze:

[steveed]

OOps-

This is a case of a little knowledge being dangerous. No, I am taking the 3, not the 2.

Craving free tonight as well! Yippee!

[Zuleikaa]

Side effect--I can feel when I need another dose of D. I start to feel a bit draggy and foggy.

Sango
It might be because you aren't taking the complex chain amino acids, leucine, etc. D without the leucine stores fat, with the leucine builds muscle. I just recently discovered this fact (thanks for link Sango) which is why the posted experiment includes the complex chain amino acids.

We understand your need to give up the vitamin D re weight gain. My concern is that it was controlling your panic attacks. Best wishes.

[Zuleikaa]

Kittenlady
Sounds like a bug to me. Am I psychic? Maybe, lol!!! This reaction couldn't possibly be from the D. Doctors sometimes give shots of 50k at one time for the winter.

Take care!!!

[steveed]

Panic Attacks.

Everytime I experienced panic attacks IT WAS ALWAYS IN DEEP WINTER. Hmmmm...coincidence? I think not! Vitamin D therapy might be my ticket to an anxiety free winter. I certainly hope so.

[KittenLady]

Dood borning, eberybody!
I hab a code. Id by doze. I'b all stuffed ub. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage22/2.gif

Steve ~ glad you're doing better; I hope D3 is the answer to your anxiety woes. I'm glad you're taking D3 and not D2! Ergot is a fascinating little smut, isn't it? (I said smut, not slut) I took Caffergot for years for migraines until Imitrex came along. It worked great. LSD was derived from ergotamine, and it worked OK for dear old Uncle Timmy. http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/rainbow2.gif

Zule ~ Glad you're noticing such excellent results! :thup:

Sango ~ Sad to see you go :tears: , but I understand! Maybe if you found those amino acids, you'll try again later?

I'm backing off to 800 IU a day today, just to avoid throwing another factor into everything. However, I didn't see "cold- or flu-like symptoms" listed as a side-effect for a higher dose of D3. I'm not out of the challenge. Just hanging out with a sore throat, stuffy nose, and low-grade fever, as well as occasional intestinal events. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage22/2.gif

Hope everyone has a good day. Next week, I'll see about the leucine, isoleucine, and valine -- I want to avoid Sango's side-effect. I also think I'll stay at 800 IU until Monday; then go up 400 IU every few days.

[steveed]

I'm on BRANCHED CHAIN AMINO ACIDS...along with that ergot, I'm higher than a kite on all sorts of acids...wheeeeeew!

Okay...not really, I am taking the right kind. I have all my supplementation now. The addition of the chromium and BCAA gave me a case of Montezumas revenge but I think it will pass...no pun intended...no runs intended? I feel right perky!

The rocket has launched! :thup:

Later that Night: Ohh.... and my face is flushed and warm. WTF?

[Zuleikaa]

Steve
You do feel warmer on D. Also the runs might be the D cleaning out your digestive system, intestines, and colon. Especially the colon, cleansing it of years of accumulated hardened waste. It's also moving excess fat out of your blood, liver and organs. OK, now the reaction makes perfect sense, lol!!! I never had the runs but I did have multiple, very soft BMs in the beginning but I was taking psyllium. Maybe that held it together more. Gee, isn't this graphic, lol!!

You'll feel much better once your system is cleaned. The D probably has a lot to get rid of.

Higher than a kite, hmm? Are you sure the wine isn't calling, lol!!!

[quietone]

as soon as I get my Vit D. I already have some of it in my calcium tablets (I take NatureMade Advanced Calcium), but not enough.

It would be wonderful if it helps! I get physical symptoms also from SAD (or it could just be fibro flares...don't really know) so it would be lovely if it works on all of it.

[steveed]

I always have a choice of which way to turn when I get off the bus after work.
Do I turn left towards home?
or do I turn right to get some WIIIIIIIIIINE and carby treats?
Me and my monkey brain agonize and wrestle every night! Last night I turned left and didn't even think about it...for me this is very weird! I almost wonder if I'm someone else! No joke, I think this stuff is working for me, and at a pretty low dose!

Currently taking Daily: D-1200 I.U., Calcium-750, Magnesium-375, GTF Chromium-600 mcg., BCAAs-(Leucine-450mg, Isoleucine-315mg, Valine-135mg)

Later

(BTW, my dreams are extremely vivid lately)

[KittenLady]

Zule ~
You do feel warmer on D.
Oh no! I don't need to feel warmer... :lol:

Steve ~
(BTW, my dreams are extremely vivid lately)
Could be from cutting out the wine. Alcohol can inhibit sleep stages, including dreaming. Or, it could be ... the eclipse ... eeeeek!... lips! I'm eager to see how those amino acids work for you.

I'm still on 800 IU. I'm getting over the bug. I can eat again -- that helps! I'll stay at 800 IU until Monday. Not much else to report.

[Sango]

I have the BCAAs now. I plan on taking them after exercise. I also have a protein sludge that I take in the morning, with a bunch of amino acids including these (about 15g total) with no carbs. It's hydrolyzed collagen and "predigested" whey protein. If it sounds disgusting, well, it is.

How can the D cause you to gain fat, if D is supposed to help you lose weight? I'm still stuck on this. And if D can cause you to put on fat, how is the mere presence of these proteins supposed to make you build muscle instead?

And honestly, I don't need to build any muscle. My particular body type carries a lot of muscle to begin with, I just need to get rid of the fat so that they can be seen.

I'm torn; I have these supplements and want to use them, especially the D, I still have two unopened bottles. I really want to try anything that might help the weight go away. But I don't want to do anything that will hinder me any more than usual. A week ago I was at 152.5 and yesterday I was at 160. This is a huge jump for me, I guess it doesn't sound like a lot, but 162-165 was my "starting weight" and being back at 160 is pretty much like starting over. I don't know how it all came back so fast. Some of it is water, but not all. Even if 5 lbs is water, that still means I am up 10 lbs from my lowest point this fall, 145.

So yeah, I don't know what to do. So far, since not being on the D, I have not had an increase in anxiety and panic attacks, even though my life is completely unsettled (I don't know whether to stay in grad school or not).

I guess the bottom line is that I don't want to take the D if it's going to put weight on, but I do want to take it if it will help the weight go away. For me it had a positive effect on my mood, but not as noticably as some people here.

I also wanted to ask, Zule, you mentioned that the D could be cleansing out impurities from the colon and stuff? How does it do that?

[KittenLady]

Sango ~ Is D supposed to help you lose weight? I thought this experiment was to see how it works on S.A.D.. I don't get the fat gain without the amino acids, either.

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/confused.gifI'm so confused!http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/confused.gif

[Zuleikaa]

We are taking it for SAD and/or any of the other indications. Additionally SAD itself causes weight gain. So we don't want to take anything that will also increase weight. Therefore the research on D and it's actions on the body and interactions with other components, i.e., calcium and branched chain amino acids Leucine, et all.
The fattening aspect of D in the absence of calcium and leucine was discovered by me via the following:Science News Online
Week of Oct. 16, 2004; Vol. 166, No. 16

Is Vitamin D Fattening?
Janet Raloff

Forget its name. Vitamin D isn't a vitamin, but rather the raw ingredient from which the body fashions one of its most important hormones. And in the past 5 years, dozens of studies have illustrated the power of that hormone to not only build bone but also fight a host of important diseases—from cancer and age-related muscle wasting to diabetes and multiple sclerosis (SN: 10/9/04, p. 232: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041009/bob8.asp).

But one of the newest identified functions of the hormonal form of vitamin D, known as 1,25-D, is its role in determining how the body manages energy. In the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, this past May, Michael B. Zemel laid out how 1,25-D helps the body decide whether the calories a person eats will be burned or stored as fat.

Earlier, his team at the University of Tennessee showed that calcium-rich products, especially milk and other dairy goods, foster weight loss (SN: 4/29/00, p. 277: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000429/fob2.asp). While investigating the mechanism behind this phenomenon, the Tennessee researchers discovered that fat cells contain receptors for 1,25-D. Furthermore, they found, the hormone actually promotes weight gain by sending calories into storage.


Milk not only accounts for 73 percent of calcium in the U.S. food supply, but, through fortification, is also a leading dietary source of vitamin D.



Zemel emphasizes that "it's not the dietary vitamin D that does this" but its hormonal form. "Moreover, there's no one-to-one relationship between that dietary vitamin D and how much 1,25-D you have," he adds. "That will be determined by your [body's] calcium status."

One way that calcium appears to foster weight reduction, the scientists report in the September FASEB Journal, is by inhibiting the production of 1,25-D.

When calcium concentrations in the body are low, the parathyroid gland in a person's neck senses it and secretes parathyroid hormone, which has a host of activities. One of them is to turn on the production of 1,25-D in the kidneys. So, to keep that hormone at low to moderate concentrations, people must maintain adequate calcium intake, Zemel says.

How adequate? Data from a range of studies now suggest that some 1,200 milligrams per day would be ideal, he says. That's slightly more than the daily calcium intake recommended by the Institute of Medicine for people 14 to 50 years old.

An obsolete adaptation?

In humanity's distant past, when access to food was uncertain, vitamin D's regulation of energy metabolism could have been a survival strategy. In a sense, Zemel notes, "calcium was sort of a marker for calories," because hunter-gatherer societies tended to "eat a fairly calcium-rich diet—albeit that calcium often came in the form of insects, grubs, fish, and small rodents eaten with bones intact."



Though consumption of calcium-rich foods, such as cheese and broccoli, used to be an indicator of the overall adequacy of food availability, it no longer is. Many people now eat calorie-rich diets and virtually no calcium.




As a result, he says, calcium would have signaled when the body had encountered a relative feast and it was safe to use the calories for growth and maintenance of high-energy activities. A plummeting of dietary calcium inputs, by contrast, might indicate the start of a famine and suggest it's time to conserve resources. Then, all spare calories would be stored as fat, to later be drawn down should starvation threaten.

Such a system would have made good evolutionary sense when most people cycled perpetually and unpredictably between feast and famine, Zemel says. He notes that today, however, when food supplies are stable and abundant in much of the world—and therefore there's been a decoupling of calcium supplies and calories—this system may actually foster obesity.

That scenario suggests that there are two reasons for people to make sure that they get adequate calcium and vitamin D, Zemel says. First, the vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium efficiently. Second, adequate calcium ensures that the parathyroid gland won't trigger a fat-inducing 1,25-D buildup.

A faster route to fat

The Tennessee researchers have been investigating the genetics of vitamin D's complex action on energy metabolism. It starts when 1,25-D opens a channel in the outer membrane of fat cells, allowing calcium to pour in. This does two things, Zemel has found.


Though any source of calcium helps to keep a brake on the potentially fattening activities of hormonal vitamin D, the Tennessee team finds that dairy products work best, owing to the synergistic properties of additional agents in milk.



In the nucleus of these cells, the calcium flood turns on a gene called fas, for fatty-acid synthase, which triggers the production of a key enzyme responsible for making more body fat out of simple sugars. In addition, Zemel finds, the intracellular calcium inhibits the biochemical machinery responsible for both the breakdown of fat cells and fat burning.

"Putting all of these elements together," he says, "you find that when you don't have enough calcium in your diet . . . the end result can be bigger, fatter fat cells."

Moreover, 1,25-D inhibits the activation of a gene called UCP-2 (for uncoupling protein 2). Explains Zemel, the protein this gene makes "was originally discovered as one that . . . makes us less efficient at using our energy." In dieters, it means that cells burn fewer calories and store more of them as fat.

The Tennessee researchers have investigated how this happens. One thing that the protein from an expressed UCP-2 gene normally does is regulate the orderly death of fat cells. It targets them for disposal by the body's housekeeping cells, a process that also carries away any fat the cells may have been holding. However, Zemel told Science News Online, "when you suppress UCP-2 with a low-calcium diet or increases in 1,25-D, your body won't be able to do as good a job at killing off your big old fat cells." On the other hand, boosting the diet's calcium content will suppress the 1,25-D in fat cells, he points out, "which will allow UCP-2 expression to proceed normally . . . and help you kill off those big old fat cells, again."

Although any calcium source will do—even supplement pills—Zemel's team has shown in a series of studies that "dairy products are more effective than plain calcium" at suppressing 1,25-D concentrations in fat cells. It turns out, he says, that "there are other components in dairy [foods] that act synergistically with the calcium to inhibit fat synthesis and augment fat breakdown." One essential amino acid that appears to play an important role is leucine, he says. It's an agent his team will be focusing on in future studies.


References:

Institute of Medicine and National Research Council. 1997. Dietary Reference Intakes for Calcium, Phosphorus, Magnesium, Vitamin D, and Fluoride. Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press. Available at http://www.nap.edu/books/0309063507/html/.

Sun, X. and M.B. Zemel. 2004. Role of uncoupling protein 2 (UCP2) expression and 1á, 25 -dihydroxyvitamin D3 in modulating adipocyte apoptosis. FASEB Journal 18 (September):1430-1432. Abstract available at http://dx.doi.org/10.1096/fj.04-1971fje.

Zemel, M.B. 2004. Role of calcium and dairy products in energy partitioning and weight management. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 79(May 1):907S-912S. Abstract available at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/5/907S.


Further Readings:

Raloff, J. 2004. Vitamin D: What's enough? Science News 166(Oct.16):248-249. Available at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/bob9.asp.

______. 2004. Vitamin boost. Science News 166(Oct.9):232-233. Available at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041009/bob8.asp.

______. 2000. Calcium may become a dieter's best friend. Science News 157(April 29):277. Available at http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000429/fob2.asp.


Sources:

Michael B. Zemel
University of Tennessee Nutrition Institute
1215 W. Cumberland Avenue, Room 229
Knoxville, TN 37996-1920





http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/food.asp

From Science News, Vol. 166, No. 16, Oct. 16, 2004

Copyright (c) 2004 Science Service. All rights reserved.

[Zuleikaa]

Given the impetus of the article, I researched what has to be ingested with the vitamin D to give complete and optimum results since no nutrient exists in isolation and, in fact, many have a synergistic affect when taken together.

Thus the discovery, through research, that D needs to be taken with calcium and BCAAs for best results. This doesn't mean that D alone won't work for SAD and the other ailments but that D alone might cause other problems, such as calcium wasting, calcium in the blood, and weight gain. Thus taking calcium with the D ensures adequate calcium levels and strong bones while the BCAA ensure strong muscles and reduced fat stores.

Which is why the Vitamin D experiment includes more than just vitamin D.

Explained?

[Zuleikaa]

Vitamin D and the Colon

http://www.hhmi.org/news/mangelsdorf2.html
MAY 17, 2002
Vitamin D May Be Crucial in Preventing Colon Cancer
New studies by researchers at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute indicate that vitamin D protects against colon cancer by helping to detoxify cancer-triggering chemicals that are released during the digestion of high-fat foods.
The discovery, which was made by a team of researchers that included Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI) investigators David J. Mangelsdorf at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center and Ronald M. Evans of The Salk Institute and colleagues at the University of Arizona, was reported in the May 17, 2002, issue of the journal Science.

“Our findings suggest a new look at the relationship between nutrition and cancer, particularly how vitamin D protects against colon cancer.”
David J. Mangelsdorf
The studies show that a specific type of bile acid, called lithocholic acid (LCA), which is a known carcinogen, activates the vitamin D receptor. When the vitamin D receptor is switched on, it triggers other proteins that detoxify the bile acid.
The research suggests that a drug that acts like vitamin D might help in preventing colon cancer by turning on the vitamin D receptor and clearing LCA from the body. One obstacle that must be overcome, however, is that high intake of vitamin D or drugs that mimic vitamin D can lead to dangerous levels of calcium in the blood.
Colon cancer expert Bert Vogelstein, an HHMI investigator at the Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center at The Johns Hopkins University, said, “these studies provide important new clues to the relationship between vitamin D, bile acids, and colorectal cancer, and they have significant implications for colorectal cancer prevention in the future.”
Mangelsdorf, Evans and their colleagues studied the effects of the bile acid, LCA, which is produced as a by-product when intestinal bacteria digest primary bile acids produced in the liver. Primary bile acids help the body digest dietary fats. The experiments showed that LCA activates the vitamin D receptor, which then activates additional genes that help detoxify LCA.
“There’s an abundance of epidemiologic data, as well as some scientific data, suggesting a correlation between high-fat diets, bile acids such as LCA, and colon cancer,” said Mangelsdorf. “But there has been no causal link, which has been one of the frustrating aspects of trying to understand the relationship between our Western-style high-fat diet and colon cancer.
Although it had been shown that vitamin D can prevent colon cancer in rats treated with LCA, and that humans with defective vitamin D signaling pathways have a higher incidence of colon cancer, it remained unclear how vitamin D actually prevents colon cancer. A reasonable theory, according to Mangelsdorf, was that vitamin D and LCA both triggered a biochemical pathway involved in detoxifying LCA. The best candidate was a pathway that involved the vitamin D receptor.
In one set of studies, the researchers showed that the vitamin D receptor strongly binds to LCA. But the researchers also needed to demonstrate that binding LCA actually activates a key gene, called CYP3A, which triggers the cell’s detoxification machinery. The scientists attached a “reporter” gene to CYP3A in human cells in culture, so they could detect whether the CYP3A gene was switched on when LCA attached to the vitamin D receptor.
“Other investigators had published data showing that vitamin D could switch on this gene, but it was a big surprise that LCA could do it also,” said Mangelsdorf. The scientists also performed experiments in mice, in which they found that feeding the animals LCA led to the activation of certain vitamin-D-receptor target genes.
The scientists ultimately demonstrated that the vitamin D receptor was the only receptor activated by LCA. “We showed that in our knockout mice, LCA still induces the expression of CYP3A, just like vitamin D does,” said Mangelsdorf. “So this crucial experiment demonstrated that vitamin D and LCA were not working through another receptor but through the vitamin D receptor.”
According to Mangelsdorf, the findings suggest that the vitamin D receptor acts as a sensor for the toxic chemical LCA. Other receptors in the body can sense dietary fats and other foreign chemicals, and serve to “alert” the body to begin detoxification when the chemicals reach dangerous levels.
“Our findings suggest a new look at the relationship between nutrition and cancer, particularly how vitamin D protects against colon cancer,” he said. “One problem with using vitamin D as a protective drug has always been that it produces hypercalcemia. But now we know that there’s another endogenous compound, LCA, that can also attach to the receptor, this suggests that we can develop protective drugs that don’t produce hypercalcemia, but do activate the detoxification pathway.”

[quietone]

how long did it take before you saw results regarding the moods?

I got my D last night (400) and started taking it last night, with dinner, along with my other stuff I take at night with dinner.

Also, do either of you get physical complaints along with your SAD?

[Zuleikaa]

The improvement in SAD is probably within 48-36 hours. I don't get physical complaints with my SAD (well, maybe increased PMS, edema, and cramps) but the D is also good for a hot of physical ailments.

Dee gets SAD migraines. Steve and Sango get SAD panic or anxiety attacks.

[KittenLady]

And Dee STILL has a SAD migraine. :bash:

D*#% it! It's between a #8 and #10 pain-wise today. At least no aura. Still have a bit of a cold bug -- I sneeze loud enough to scare the cats anywhere in the house. http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/catrush.gif

Zule ~ thanks for the info! That helps explain things.

I'm sticking with the 800 IU still. Planning a quiet weekend at home, and staying away from stores so I don't "spread the weath", so to speak, or pick up something new. I need to go out on Monday and Tuesday, so will pick up the amino acids then.

Over and out.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
If you're in for the weekend anyway, why don't you try to beat the migraine into submission with D and up your dose to 3600 IU/day divided in three doses? The D won't hurt and might alleviate some of the symptoms. With all the symptoms/indications you have, it might be worth a shot and you can cut back down, if you're not feeling a bit better, on Monday.

It might be like the doctors giving a big dose to bring your levels up sharply.

[steveed]

I wanted to put this to the ultimate test.
I bought some wine tonight. Drank some... and I had no desire to eat ANYTHING. This is amazing and weird. Wine for me is the main trigger for carby food. Absolutely no desire to eat anything. It's like I'm another person. This vitamin D therapy has given me total control. Whoopee!

Zule, you are a genuis. :wave:

[Sango]

Zule, I know you've probably told me before, but can you link me to info on the BCAAs? I'm curious to know how they work with the muscle fat/thing. Everything I've found to read online (which admittedly wasn't much) says the average person gets enough of these in their normal diet and doesn't need supplements.

[Zuleikaa]

Vitamin D and leucine
http://www.drpressman.com/Library/AminoAcids2.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1184737&dopt=Abstract
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041016/food.asp

http://www.cabotcheese.com/pdf/Zemel-OR-April2004.pdf

Leucine and muscle
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/273/43/28178?view=abstract

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2362.2001.00845.x

http://www.healthcentral.com/news/newsfulltext.cfm?ID=14125

[steveed]

I had a couple glasses of wine with friends last night, when I came home I had a handful of olives and a handful of pecans...that was it.
Usually it would be a whole frozen pizza! :lol:

I am still getting "slightly" nauseous in the morning. Not enough to want to stop however! My moods are of a sunnier disposition. It will be interesting to see where I end up as of April.

Quietone: I saw a change in my moods in about a 24 hour period. Quite fast really...I'm only taking 1200 I.U. a day...it seems it's all I need but YMMV!

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
I'm too darned chicken to try that much D3 at once. I'll see if I can get up the nerve!

[Zuleikaa]

Steve
Maybe you need to delay taking the dose until you have breakfast. You might need to take it with food. I noticed that today I got slightly nauseaous, but then I forgot to eat breakfast. It went away once I ate something. During the work week I have a routine.

Dee
Just a suggestion. You have a several illnesses that seem to be D deficiency related in addition to SAD.

[Zuleikaa]

Nothing to report. I hope everyone had a successful weekend.

Dee
I hope your migraines have gone away.

[KittenLady]

Zule ~ no such luck. :tears: However, I got it down from a #8 or #10 down to a #5 or #6. At least it's more bearable.

Tomorrow, I'll try 1200 IU again and stay at that level for a few days unless I have side-effects.

I see my MD on Tues afternoon.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully a few days of 1200 IU will bring it down further.

[steveed]

In the area of appetite suppression, this D cocktail can't be beat!

Later, unless I start bleeding from the eyes and upchucking my own liver.

Great visual eh? Happy Halloween!

[KittenLady]

Well, the migraine story just keeps getting worse. I was up at 5 AM with an aura and full-blown migraine.

I gave myself a rest from supplements for one day to let my body clear itself of anything extra. Tomorrow, I see my MD.

I'll go to 1200 IU D3 tomorrow. I'm going to try to reach 4000 IU a day.

I'm really getting depressed.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I'm so sorry to hear that your migraine didn't get better. It's definitely D deficiency related. I don't know if you know of this or if this will help.http://www.healthcentral.com/PrintFormat/PrintFullText.cfm?id=25

It takes a few months to take show results though. I think increasing the D will give you better results sooner.

[KittenLady]

Thanks, Zule ~ Riboflavin (B2) could help, but I'm going for the D3 first. Now that the "bug" has run its course, I'll start going up in dose again. I don't want to add too many things at once -- if something works, I wouldn't know which "something" it was! :D

I do really truly appreciate all the info -- you never know what might actually do the trick. A lady who was in the (now defunt) migraine support group had a severe allergy attack. She was rushed to the hospital, where they gave her an I.V. injection of Benadryl. She didn't have a migraine again, at least for the 5 years following. A friend's friend, who had chronic daily migraines, lost her blood pressure meds while on vacation. Her doctor called in a prescription for "the wrong drug," a calcium-channel blocker, and it actually worked -- she's had only a few migraines since, and it's been almost 15 years!

So, ya never know! I haven't had a migraine "series" like this in about 8 years, so I'm seeing my doc to see if she has any brilliant ideas. :idea:

[KittenLady]

Good news!

1. I had 2 whopping big injections, one in each cheek (not on my face), of anti-inflammatories, and the migraine is breaking up. :yay: Let's hope this breaks this cycle. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage09/3.gif

What's puzzling: my butt really hurts! If these are anti-inflammatories, why do they hurt? http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage22/14.gif

2. Doc doesn't agree with some of the science in Schwarzbein (neither do I), but she thinks the plan itself is sound if one goes by symptoms and not lab tests. So, she's behind me on the diet plan. :thup:

3. She hadn't heard of the high-dose vitamin D experiments, but she's interested. I asked her if I needed bloodwork first. She thought about it, asked the questions that we've all been asking, made sure I was taking D3 (not D2, and definitely not with vitamin A), and said, "That one's not toxic. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't give it a try. Let me know if you get good results!"

So, here I go again! Aiming for an eventual dose of 4,000 IU a day. Today, I'm at 1,200 IU.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
That's great news!!! Hears hoping you can now get on track with the D and have good results.

[Iowagirl]

Mind if I cut in?

I read through this thread (quickly - it is time to go home!) and the affects on SAD caught my eye. I strongly suspect my fiancee suffers from SAD. He may be willing to try vitamin D but as I understand he should be taking other supplements as well. Currently he takes a multi -vit and calcium. He should include BCAA's which are.....? (yes I saw the links but could someone summarize please? :) )

[Zuleikaa]

It's summarized on the first page.

[Iowagirl]

Read it. What does BCAA stand for?

[Zuleikaa]

BCAA means Branched Chain Amino Acids. They go with the vitamin D to help the D build muscle.

[Iowagirl]

And that would be these?
Magnesium ½ calcium dose
Leucine 16 mg/kilo or 2.2 pounds of body weight
Lsoleucine ½ leucine dose
Valine ½ leucine dose

I already take magnesium but I've never heard of the rest.

[KittenLady]

Hi Iowa ~ Magnesium is a mineral. The other 3 are components of proteins, especially those proteins in muscles.

I couldn't find those amino acids on my outing today. I'll try a different health food store tomorrow. If I can't find those there, I'll go to the web site(s) mentioned. I did get a great deal on D3!

I kept to 1,200 IU today, and no side-effects. Tomorrow, I'll up it by 400 IU.

[KittenLady]

OK, got a big bottle of BCAAs at my usual health food store today. I found it in the body-building section. :daze: Go figure.

Up to 1600 IU of D3 with no side-effects today. :thup: And 1 gram total of the BCAAs. Tomorrow, I'll increase the BCAAs.

That's all the news in fits and spurts.

[steveed]

Still taking the formula and still happy and craving free...I feel myself thinning out already but I'm not going to weigh in until December 1st.

[KittenLady]

I'm still at 1600 IU D3 + 3,000 mg BCAAs. The D3 definitely causes my gastrointestinal distress -- nausea and "soft stools" started again after going up to 1600 IU. :( I'll wait to see if it goes away. If not, I'll have to back off.

[Zuleikaa]

Soft stools are normal and a sign of cleansing. If you have nausea, make sure you take the D3 with meals.

[KittenLady]

Zule ~ I am taking the D3 with food. Could it be part of the detoxifying? I'll stick with it, though, because eventually it should quiet down if it's due to detoxifying. I might even try a different brand of D3. :thup: It could be one of the oils in the caplet.

[Zuleikaa]

I think it's part of the detoxifying effect. D removes fat, calcium, toxins and imbalances from the blood stream/system. It's got to come out somewhere. I noticed that in the beginning my stools were very loose and fatty looking. TMI!!! You might want to take some fiber or alfalfa to help hold them together and assist in cleansing the pockets, if any, in the colon.

Try to stay at 1600 for a while and see if some of the symptoms back off. This stuff isn't toxic at obscene amounts and it's deficiency is strongly indicated in the ills you have. It's also an anti-inflamatory and you've certainly had a lot of that recently.

Your D doesn't have A in it does it? If so, how much? You don't what to go much above 30,000 IU/day of A.

[KittenLady]

Hi, Zule ~ There's no A in my D. The D is suspended in oil (soy, olive, etc), and different brands have different vegetable oils; just no A.

The good news is that the gastrointestinal symptoms are almost gone today. :yay: I have been noticing the anti-inflammatory effects, too. The few injuries I've had in my past, things that haven't bothered me in years, are aching/tingling/hurting/cramping at various times. Other than that, I'm doing better.

Still at 1600 IU D3, and 3 g BCAAs (1,500 mg leucine; 750 mg each isoleucine and valine).

[KittenLady]

Hi -- Canary in the Coal Mine here! :lol: Today, I was up with my DH, for the first time in months. I'm alert, I can think, I'm not fuzzy around the edges. I seem to remember this phenomenon... could it be...
Energy?

I won't celebrate yet because I still can't believe it. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage20/14.gif But, at this point, even placebo effect would be nice! I'm upping the D3 to 2,000 IU today -- if I react, I can always back it down again.

[steveed]

I'm still taking the D and my brother made a comment today when we went to breakfast that it looked like I lost weight. It's working just super thank you very much. Something in the formula is giving me occassional diarhhea TMI! I looked in my chromium supplement and it has niacin in it...no wonder I was flushing at the beginning. Nothing like male hot flashes! Sounds like a seedy dance club...Come One, Come All to Male Hot Flashes Ladies! :D

I'm still resisting the temptation to weigh myself before December, but I want to suprise myself, and I think I just might!

[KittenLady]

Steve ~ I'm still occasionally having "loose stools," not quite diarrhea -- TMI! Male Hot Flashes, eh? Now you know first-hand what so many ladies go through. It's no fun. :(

I'm up to 2,000 IU a day, and I'm definitely having more energy. :yay: Just in time for my art reception. I've been very productive! And - My carb cravings have subsided.

This evening, I've had my first bad headache in a whole week. I attribute it to the 2 cold fronts converging over our head! The barometric pressure dropped like a brick around 6 PM; at 7 PM, a headache developed -- within 5 minutes, I had a #8. It's better now (#4), but I did have to take meds. At least now I know that, if it lasts more than a few days, I can go in for my doctor's Magic Mixture!

I give Vitamin D3 two thumbs up! :thup: :thup:

[quietone]

with the Vit D experiment.

When i up it past 1800, i get extremely irritable. Like PMS irritable. So I have to back it back down.

Maybe this is not for me. Maybe the Vit D thing is not the answer for me. I have been using my light for the last couple of days, and that is making me feel better, so I guess I will stick to the old tried and true.

It could also be that I really don't get severe sad until about Mid December. So maybe I get enough Vit D in the spring, summer and fall (i am an avid gardener) so that it takes a couple of months to deplete. Does that sound logical?

Perhaps I will try it again in about a month when I am ususlly starting to slump. It is always a coupkle of weeks before Christmas. It is very easy to remember because I always have so much to do and I really don't feel like it, and I always make excuses not to go to Christmas parties.

[Zuleikaa]

When i up it past 1800, i get extremely irritable. Like PMS irritable. So I have to back it back down. Steveed had the same reaction and had to back the D down to 1200. At 1200 he's happy as a clam, dancing in the street, and smiling at strangers (very weird for Steveed, lol!!!)

Vitamin D supplementation levels need to be tailored to the individual. Age, sex, season of birth, season, latitude, ethnic background and even religious background all factor in the amount of vitamin D required.

Remember you want to find the level of D that works for you!!! So if 2000 is too much, go lower. Just keep things in proportion.

[quietone]

Okay. So i was taking 800 and was told to up it.

So, i guess i will try 1200. But actually, thinking about it just now, I realized it may not be the total amount I am taking, but how much I am taking at one time. What I was doing to get 1800 was taking 600 at a time with each meal. And I definitely noticed the irritablity. I thought that if my office-mate crunched one more potato chip I would do her bodily harm! :lol: :lol:

So, hmmm.....

I have been thinking of eating four times a day intead of three anyway, so maybe I should break down my Vit D that way too. Let me think on this!!

Thanks for the help.

[KittenLady]

Today, I accidentally performed a control experiment. I had a headache this afternoon. I was irritable. I was tired and spacy. I got out my vitamins to take with dinner -- I have one of those daily pill containers, with segments for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and bedtime. The "lunch" segment rattled... Lo and behold, I forgot to take 800 IU of my D3!

D3 really is helping! :agree:

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I guess D is like depression psyche meds. When you feel "normal" you forget to take them, lol!!

[KittenLady]

I once worked with a lady who was bipolar... she was feeling great, so she stopped taking her lithium. It was ugly. At least forgetting the D3 wasn't catastrophic! :lol: I know I'll have a much better day tomorrow.

It could have been much, much worse... I could have forgotten to take my estrogen. Talk about scary... http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/scary1.gif

[quietone]

Glad to hear the D is helping you though.

hopefully, I can find an amount that will even me out, but I am still using my light box either way. I found last winter that it also helped keep my cycles on target.

[Zuleikaa]

Report on Vitamin D and me.

Better moods.
Shorter TOM with fewer mood swings, less pain and bleeding.
A bit more energy.
Clearer mind.
Fewer aches.
No indigestion.
No constipation.
I'm still waiting for the appetite to wane though I'm not craving and I get hungry less often. I don't generally think of food unless I smell frying foods. Man sometimes coming home on the bus I want to attacks people from the smells of their food, lol!!!

[steveed]

Since being on D, I've had the runs after my dinner EVERY DAY. Compared to the way it makes me feel it's hard to give it up though. I wonder if I can eat 1200 I.Us of food derived D a day?

Added Later: I have my answer! I only need to eat 30 ounces of shrimp a day! :lol:
Maybe I was a seal in a former life?

Added Much Later: OR....I could eat 3 oz. of Salmon a day (425 I.U.s) and a 3 oz. tin of herring (725 I.U.s). Yes, I was definitely a seal in a former life. Actually, I think the alkaline in the mag/calcium and the acid in the Vitamin D are getting together in my intestine and having a HELL of a party.

Maybe those Norwegians are on to something? ;)

[KittenLady]

Hi Steve ~ I have a feeling it's getting crap out of our livers. That crap gets turned into bile, which goes into the gall bladder and out into the intestines. Bile has a laxative effect.

I generally have my "loose stools" in the morning, sometimes right after getting up. They're getting better.

Today I managed the 2000 IU of D3, and my head was fine. :daze: Go figure.

[tokenyanke]

I'd watch the runs... Anything I've read said that is a sign of toxicity. I have had a light headache all week that turned into a massive headache last night with nausea, which is also a sign of TOO MUCH, and I was only at 1200 IU per day. It makes me too nervous even though my TOM was much easier and lighter and my moods were a bit better than they had been on just St John's Wort.

So, I will keep mine low... like 600 IU or less a day and see how it goes.

[quietone]

Hi, Steve.

Maybe you should back it down a little bit more or divide it differently.

I was having real trouble finding the line between feeling good and feeling not so good. But I think I have finally found it 1000.

No edginess and no loose BMs.

On a female note: I have absolutely NO PMS this month. And in the winter months I get real bad... Thanks Zule!!!!

[Zuleikaa]

Well I had very loose stools every day when I started. Now they are just soft though every once in a while they become loose again I take psyllium every night so maybe that binds them together. I actually like the effect. I think the loose stools re the D are getting rid of toxins as Dee said. I noticed in the beginning my stools were very fatty and D does remove unhealthy fat and toxins from the blood and organs. Excess fat and bile will definitely make stools "runny".

I would say headaches and irritability is a sign of too much and the D needs to be reduced. Of course severe headaches like migraine are actually a sign of a D deficiency and while the D is correcting the situation, they can actually become worse for a short time as can pain arising from sites of past injuries. It seems the D has to undue or dismantle incorrect healing before it can then heal things correctly, at least that's the conclusions I've drawn from my research.

I certainly don't want anyone ODing on D, though that's not really possible, lol!!! But each person needs to find his/her own individual level. And then, that level might have to be increased as winter deepens and reduced a lot as spring arrives.

Females seem to need more D as do African Americans and those with Northern European or Aramaic heritages. We need more D supplementation as we age. Other factors are...outside activities, deficiency indications, food sources, residing latitude and altitude, and even season of birth. So there is a continuum of adequate D supplementation unique on an individual basis.

Such uniqueness in individual requirements for D require experimentation to get the level right for you or a test of your levels so you know exactly what your existing level is and how much you then need.

You can always start low and slowly add until you find your level needed for now. Or you can take a guess, and then adjust down until you find the same.

It's just tweaking. You'll know when it's right for you and you'll know when it's time to adjust it again.

[KittenLady]

Tomorrow is my big reception, and I'm feeling well enough to get things done! :yay: My CFS symptoms are lessened. My head has been doing fine -- I have a headache today, but it's the type that I get before it snows. My neck/head has a 95% accuracy rate for predicting snow.

Oh, crap -- It's gonna snow! For my reception!
Oh, NOOOOOO!

Other than that, holding at 2000 IU D3.

[tokenyanke]

I've just read so many conflicting things and that it can damage kidneys and liver if there is too much. I've been taking the extra for almost 2 months now so I would think that the headaches and other problems would have hit long before now and that is what scares me about what's happening now. If I had only been on it a short time, I might expect these symptoms.

I should also not have many toxins in my body. I did a detox program before I started my Endo diet... then when I started that they had me on a Cleansing Diet plus I was already taking Chinese Bitters and Coptis (herbal formulas)to help control the Endo and detox my liver. I wash my fruits and veggies with a vinegar and water mixture to get the chemicals off and don't eat anything with a lot of preservatives or additives in. People look at what I eat now and turn their noses up cause it's so "plain" and unexciting, so I know I have to have been well detoxed before I started on the D3.

So, I just am guessing that if I do need extra, it must not be much extra and I'm afraid of the adverse reactions of the higher doses.

[Zuleikaa]

Here again is the link to my journal where vitamin D dosages, supplementation factors and toxicity info is posted. It might calm some fears.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=67587&page=237&pp=15

[steveed]

Dee-

Did you say I was full of bile?
I'm insulted! :lol:
I don't agree that I'm suffering toxicity since that would cause me to be irritable/moody when to tell you the truth it's as if my brain has woken up. Since all other indications are looking good...

1) Extra Energy
2) Calmer when dealing with problems/people at work
3) More tendency to be social
4) Heart racing/palpitations gone
5) Cravings are under my yoke...I'm the master now Wah hahahahahahahaha!

I would say that the "geyser" activity I have been experiencing might just be the expelling of nastiness I have built up over the years...and let me tell you, it must be a lot!

Incidentally, On the Weston Price site in the Cod Liver Oil/Perfect Food section, he says that it would be safe to take up to 2 TABLESPOONS a day if you were so inclined, even with the A!

http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/codliveroil.html

DOSAGES AND DANGERS

If pregnant or pregnancy is possible, limit cod liver oil intake to not more than 30,000 IU A per day. Two tablespoons of regular cod liver oil, one tablespoon high-vitamin cod liver oil is a dose that is safe and adequate for pregnant women and, in fact, all adults. There is no indication that anyone needs a dose of cod liver oil exceeding two tablespoons except in certain special circumstances. More is not better.

Infants and growing children can tolerate higher-per-pound doses of vitamin D and cod liver oil. Recommended dosages are as follows: one teaspoon from birth to six months, two teaspoons from six months to three years, one tablespoon from 4-10 years and two tablespoons thereafter during winter months or when not sunning.

Never combine sources of vitamin A. Vitamin A and its derivatives are found in skin lotions and creams, oral medications and vitamin supplements. The 30,000 IU limit is from all sources.

If you sun regularly and spend winter months in the South, you need to find another way to get elongated fatty acids (such as organ meats). You really do not want too much vitamin D. High doses of cod liver oil are used to promote atherosclerosis in animal studies. Too much D is too much D.

When using a UV-B meter and sunning to raise vitamin D, you will need the Vitamin D and Sunlight protocol. Cod liver oil can be reduced or eliminated depending on your location and exposure times.

Cod liver oil mixed with zinc oxide is better for the skin than any of the prescription medications, and safer.

This was interesting information! I think that if I was to go that route that taking 1 teaspoon at every meal would do me fine (1200 I.U.s, which is what I'm taking of the Dry D now). I'm not contemplating doing this right now, but I think it would be an excellent fall back position...and it would be so very norwegian of me.

We shall see!

[KittenLady]

Steve ~ I think we're all full of something! If you want to call it bile, go ahead! At least we're no longer full of s*~t... :lol: I don't think it's D toxicity, either. The liver is enormous, and it takes a while to get all the toxins out - they accumulate over the years. That's what I think our "intestinal events" are. I'd be very careful with the cod liver oil - A is very toxic. A form of it can kill cancer (but don't tell the drug companies - e-mail me if you want that story...).

As for The Canary in the Coal Mine here, I can say that D3 is helping:
1. reduce the incidence of headaches/migraines.
2. decrease moodiness.
3. reduces carb cravings.
4. increase energy; decrease symptoms of CFS.

Now, onward and upward to the reception! Wheeeeee!

[tokenyanke]

Okay then, I'll get over the toxicity fears. Sorry for my freaky spell. I stayed at 800 IU today and skipped taking any last night. I had a slight headache this morning but it's gone now and I feel okay.

So, ya'll take whatever works for you and we'll all be happy Vitamin Ders! lol...

[Zuleikaa]

Hey all
Again, I think the vitamin D dose is a very individual thing. Take what works for you!!!

The BMs "geyser" notwithstanding, lol, do not have the same "feel" as diarrhea. To me they're more like an inevitable lava flow, lol!! That is, I feel like I have some short term control but it's gonna come out eventually. My we're getting graphic in here, lol!!! To me, diarrhea is totally uncontrollable and is usually accompanied by gastric distress. This is more like pressure because "it" wants out.

I was at 3600 IU, I started high. I'm going to reduce it to 2400 and see if the benefits hold.

While the D hasn't reduced my appetite a lot, that I've noticed, it has reduced my cravings for chocolate!!!

Now what am I going to do with the freezer full of chocolate, lol!!!

[KittenLady]

Now what am I going to do with the freezer full of chocolate, lol!!!
Send it over here!!!! :lol:

[tokenyanke]

Doing okay at the 800 IU today. I've been tired ever since the time change, though, but I don't think there's anything that will help me past that. I just hate darkness! And Tuesday will be the one year mark of DH's passing away and just having that on my mind and feeling the emotions of it all makes me feel drained.

[steveed]

Well folks, it has been a simply mahhhvelous weekend. I've seen "The Incredibles" twice. Yes. It's THAT good. My cravings for overeating do not exist. A friend that I had lunch with this week said it best. He said, "When people overeat, it's because their body wants something it's not getting, it looks like your body is finally getting what it needs."

Whew!

Couldn't have said it better myself!
<Dances around the Statue of Zule he's made in his living room declaring fervent praise> :thup:

I'm down to 247 pounds now...I know I wasn't supposed to peek, but what the hell!

Steve

[Zuleikaa]

Wow!!! I'm officially a goddess!!! :lol: :lol:

Steve
I'm glad you're feeling so good. I couldn't believe it myself when the D worked. I'm so glad I gave it a chance!!! And I'm so glad I bugged you until you heard, too!!

I think your friend is right!! The body can only search for the nutrients it needs through hunger and cravings. Of course we get confused, too, because carbs set off their own cravings.

Cindi
If you're still tired and dreading the dark, you're probably not getting enough D. Or maybe you just need another week to adjust. It's weird but I almost enjoy the dark, early mornings now. Of course, I'm tired in the evenings but hey, it's the end of the day. lol!! I'm sleeping well and most mornings I bounce out of bed.

Dee
I didn't have any chocolate today either. Weird, but I'll go with it.

[KittenLady]

I had a good day today, resting after hard work. No let-down migraine, which is a first! :yay: So this D3 is working!

[tokenyanke]

Zule, I still feel sort of tired today... and achy. Maybe I do need more D. I will try to work it in gradually and avoid getting more headaches.

Good going on the weight loss, Steve. I know a guy that makes totem poles... Maybe he would do a Zule pole! lol...

[Zuleikaa]

You might be coming down with something or you might not be getting enough D to correct past injuries. While D is working you can get pain, aches at the site of old injuries as the D undoes botched healing and does it correctly.

Yesterday and today I've reduced the level of D I'm taking and I feel a bit tired and achy, too. I also have a low grade headache. It could be that I'm not getting enough D, that my body is reacting to getting a lesser amount than it's used to and going through some kind of withdrawal symptoms or I could be coming down with a cold. The weather here has been wildly fluctuating in temperature. Now I can't seem to get warm. They don't call this pneumonia weather for nothing, lol!!!

[KittenLady]

Today I was completely, totally irritable. Like I was one giant raw exposed nerve. That's not my "style." I'm trying to decide if I need to go up or down on the D3. I'll probably go up again.

[Zuleikaa]

Well, Steve had PMS when he got too much, that could be a sign. Especially if more just makes you worse.

It might be that we need more to take care of depletion and then need to find an appropriate seasonal maintenance level.

Or, maybe your "nerves" are under repair and thus are more sensitive.

[quietone]

I'd say too much D.

I noticed this and had to back my down. I share an office here and the other person was eating potato chips. Lord help me, I thought I was gonna' go insane with the crunching. I actually had to leave the room because I got so irritated at the noise.

Now, I seem to be good at 1,000 a day.

[tokenyanke]

Today is the 1 year mark since DH passed away. I took an extra 400IU of D this morning and an extra St John's Wort! I am prepared! No tears so far... Feeling sad but not as bad as I could be. I'm leaving work early to go to the grave and decorate for Christmas. He loved Christmas. DMIL is gonna go with DSS and put out some poinsettas, too. I expect tears somewhere along the line, but at least feeling this "in control" right now is a good sign!

The one thing that keeps running thru my mind is that I'm too young to be going thru this! We were supposed to grow old together!

[Zuleikaa]

Cindi
You've been through so much. When DH got sick, the long illness and treatments and when he died. These times will come. You've been doing great!! It still feels like such a short time.

[KittenLady]

Zule ~ I've decided to cut back to 1600 IU now. The memory of Steve with PMS helped me to decide! :lol: I'm hoping that it will help. If the headaches come back, I'll go back up.

It's good to have my MD approve the D3 experment, but now my chiropractor is on board with D3 treatment, too. How lucky can I get! :agree: (Either that, or I'm persuasive!) She now has several patients with SAD on D3. She is anticipating that our need for D3 will plateau, then increase as the length of day decreases. I asked her about the "loose stools," and she hasn't had the D3 patients complain about it. So, it might be an individual thing, dependent on stored toxins.

Zule, you live in a crowded urban area with lots of air pollution. Steve, you do, too -- plus, you're an artist. Unless you work with watercolors, you are and have been exposed to toxins in paints. Even acrylics have fumes. So, those of us with higher toxin exposure at any time in life will experience different degrees of gastrointestinal distress. Cindi, your toxins are emotional/nervous, so that's where your symptoms are appearing.

I'll report on my dose-decrease day later.

P.S. -- Cindi, I left you a message on your journal.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
You must be very persuasive, lol!!! It's quite a change to find doctors willing to experiment a bit.

I know, the image of Steve with PMS!!! That is scary, lol!!!!

[quikdeb]

Okay....here we go....first dose, down the hatch.

:q: :q: D or D3????? I thought it was straight D.

I don't really feel bad, sad, or lacking of energy, so I'm not sure what I'll be expecting. We'll see...

Deb

[Zuleikaa]

D3=natural vitamin D from fish oils
D2=manmade vitamin D, this is the one that's toxic

Another weird night. Usually if I'm feeling a cold I want soup, grilled cheese sandwich, and hot chocolate with marshmallows. I'm feeling a cold and tonight I want hot oatmeal with cream, butter, spices and sweetener. Go figure. This is so unlike me, lol!!

[steveed]

I'm tired of loose stools, think I'll get a chair instead...OKAY, OKAY...a bad joke. I still have the same old...er...problem. Maybe it'll clear up someday. If it lasts one more month, I'll have to reason out some other approach. Until, I ain't gonna worry.

[quietone]

Steve, have you tried taking the D down just a small amount? I saw a big difference when I went from 1,200 to just 1,000 a day. Maybe this will help you too. Although, I think I will need to take it back up as the winter progresses.

[steveed]

I would take the D down if I was getting a headache, or becoming irritable...but the opposite is true, I'm clearer headed, emotionally level and contented! I don't want to lessen those effects. No, I'm at the right dosage, I just need to be patient. The "episodes" are getting more and more sporadic. Today I'm doing a little experiment. I'm cutting out the BCAA's just for today to see what that will do. Just curious...maybe it's not the D afterall?

[quietone]

Good idea!

I just talked to someone who is using D also and he forgot to take his yesterday and had horrible anxiety problems all day long until he could get home and take some.

[Zuleikaa]

Steve
I had the "episodes" with D before I was taking the BCAA. I think you just have to get cleaned out. I was going to say ream, lol!!!

[quikdeb]

Took my stuff at 9 this am...didn't feel anything until I had a diet soda at the blood bank. Now I feel like I'm on uppers (not that I've ever been on any...just imagining.) I'm due to take the next ones soon. I'll be at warp speed (as Steve would say) if that's what's causing this. Very strange.....

Deb

[steveed]

Looks like a lot of people are joining the conga line...all aboard!
Well...I left out the BCAA's today and guess what? No diahhrea!!! :thup:
Looks like I'll have to find another source or take it in it's natural form somehow.

[Equinox]

Hi, all! I wanna join...! Though (darn it!) I can't get vitamin d nor (presumably) the BCAAs in restrictive Norway... I'm gonna have to order them and need to wait for my next paycheck first. *jumping up and down with frustration*

Anyway, I was wondering; Why are you guys saying that people of scandinavian / northern European descent should take a higher dosage? I thought our fair skin produced a lot of D? I know we don't really get much here from sunlight except in summer which is why I wouldn't have been surprised if that was the problem, but it seems you're referring to people with my kind of genes who don't even live in Norway anymore. So what gives? Now I'm curious!

And, Steveed, if all you're oblique references to the Norwegians were about taking our cod-liver-oil and eating fish, then you're absolutely right, at least as pertains to my own childhood. Now I'm living in Oslo and fish is expensive...arrggh! I've begun to take cod-liver oil again though, waiting to order proper D!

Looking forward to experimenting together with you all!

[Zuleikaa]

Welcome Equinox!!! The more the merrier!!! And the more reactions and benefits we can document!!

Anyway, I was wondering; Why are you guys saying that people of scandinavian / northern European descent should take a higher dosage? I thought our fair skin produced a lot of D? I know we don't really get much here from sunlight except in summer which is why I wouldn't have been surprised if that was the problem, but it seems you're referring to people with my kind of genes who don't even live in Norway anymore. So what gives? Now I'm curious!
What gives? Genetics!! Northern Europeans don't have a lot of vitamin D receptors even though they're fair skinned because they live in a cooler/cold climate and must remain covered to stay warm. Additionally, any location above 40 degrees north latitude doesn't get enough sun in winter to produce adequate vitamin D. This genetic heritage was passed on in the genes. Northern Europeans had alleviated this problem in the past, like animals who forage to replace deficiencies, by having a diet high in fish and fish oils which are natural sources of vitamin D.

Additionally

[quietone]

:wave:

Hope you can get your D soon.

It is not only helping my moods, but the carb craving that comes along with winter too!

I am actually losing weight in winter! Who'd thunk?

Glad you got rid of the runs, Steve! If you're eating high amounts of meat protein, you may already be getting enough BCAA anyway. There are very high concentrations in red meat.

[Zuleikaa]

Yeah, Steve.
I was going to suggest you might want to cut down on the BCAA.

[tokenyanke]

I seem good at 800 IU to 1200 IU. My ears have been ringing a little... Nothing too bad, though. I got thru THE DAY okay and yesterday had to sign final papers at the lawyer's to be able to close the estate... Now it's done and waiting on Probate to do their thing and I'll have one more thing out of the way. But I haven't been too bad emotional, so something is working right!

[KittenLady]

Welcome, Equinox! I'm half Lithuanian, and can trace my lineage back to the Vikings. I'm very fair (hair is blonde in the summer, light brown in winter; and pale skin) and I rarely tan - I usually just fry to a crisp! So, I seldom go out without sunblock and hat. I live much farther south than you, but I don't get that much sun on bare skin. It'll be interesting to see how you do.

Steve, glad cutting out the BCAA's got you off the throne. I had the "problems" before taking the BCAA's, so I guess I'm detoxing.

Cindi, glad you made it through The Day in a good way. :thup:

My experiment in cutting back the D3 to 1600 IU was dismal. But, as far as scientific experiments, it was a success. I had a #8 migraine by Wednesday afternoon. :tears: Couldn't find any other contributing factors. Thus, it appears that my autumn and winter migraines are associated with SAD, and that D3 helps to fix that situation in me. So, today it's back up to 2000 IU.

All hail, Zule the Magnificent! http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage26/7.gif

[Equinox]

So, basically, I'm genetically doomed to D deficiency? That's just great...! :-) Figures. No wonder I get depressed in winter. Thanks for all the welcomes! I've been lurking for a while now, because although the experiment seemed very interesting, I won't be able to start until I get some D capsules. But I was just too curious to know! I probably won't get the D till next month, haven't got the money just now... So, I'll probably lurk a while longer, lol... Looking forward to see how you guys will be doing as winter deepens!

[quikdeb]

Welcome, Equinox! :wave:

The good news is...at least here, anyway....THEY'RE CHEAP! So the experiment doesn't have to break the bank. This made me very happy!

Deb

[Zuleikaa]

Equinox
You could find some cod liver oil and take that. Start at 1 tablespoon (or whatever the metric is) and work up 1/3 more at a time.

I know how you feel about being "doomed", lol!!!

[tokenyanke]

Yes, Deb... Something good for us that is inexpensive! lol...

I had an "almost headache" this afternoon but it is gone now. And tomorrow is FRIDAY! I am ready. I am going to bed to have sweet dreams about vitamin D and statues of Zule!

[quikdeb]

The only thing I can report at this moment is that I feel like I'm moving in fast forward. Assuming this has something to do with D, as it started the day I took it, but don't know why.

Will report back Sunday night or Monday....

Deb

[Equinox]

Yeah, Zule, I'm already taking oen tablespoon of Cod liver oil (or Tran, as it's known here, actually an export product) a day. I'm a bit squeamish about upping that dose, however, since it also contains a bit of A...

[Equinox]

Actually, that's what I heard all my childhood, that taking a tablespoon of tran a day was good for you. My mom probably got told "nice girls take their tran"... Norwegians have been doing this for a while!

[KittenLady]

I'm happier at 2000 IU a day! Feeling great again!

[tokenyanke]

I'm feeling pretty good around 1000-1200 IU right now. Even lost another 1/2 lb this week.

[Zuleikaa]

Does anyone's legs feel tight?

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
No, my legs aren't tight. However, the intestinal problems have escalated to explosive diarrhea with severe cramping -- only after taking the D3. Within minutes, the cramping starts, and within 30 minutes I'm really in trouble.

So, today, I'm backing off totally, all the way down to 400 IU. If this calms my gut, then I might need to drop out. What a shame. :tears: It's working so well on my head.

I guess if it's not one end, it's the other.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
It's not the BCAA's? You're taking the D with food? You are dividing the doses into at least three times a day?

Sounds very reactive. Such a shame!!! You certainly don't want that reaction!!!

Back off and then see what's the lowest dose you can tolerate at one time. Then maybe you can add another in that dose later in the day, and so on.

I'd hate for you to drop out completely when it's working so well for your migraines. But you can't live with that either.

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
It was such a potent reaction that it got my attention! I've been taking D3 with food since day 2 (!), and I had already cut back on the BCAAs. I've been having gut problems since day 1, and didn't get the BCAAs until later. I've been using the "process of elimination" (sorry... couldn't resist such an awful pun!) to figure out what's been causing the cramps. My doc even tried changing my bp med to see if that was causing it. No change. So, we changed it back (same family of meds).

Not to get too graphic, but I've never had diarrhea that foamed before. :daze: DH and I ate the same foods, and he didn't have any gut problems. What's worse is that nothing, and I mean nothing, stopped it. I was ready to find a huge cork. Sorry, TMI.

I thought that I might be having a toxic reaction at that point, and today decided to stop the extra D3 (still have 400 IU in my multivitamin) to be on the safe side. And I've completely stopped the BCAAs.

I'm hoping not to have to quit, since it has been working so well on the SAD-related symptoms, especially the migraines. Fortunately, my gut is feeling better and better. I'll wait now until after Thanksgiving company leaves before trying again.

Sorry, Zule. I hope that your legs feel better soon, and that you aren't experiencing electrolyte or calcium imbalances. Now I'm getting really concerned.

[tokenyanke]

My legs haven't been tight either. And I guess I'm also fortunate that I haven't had any explosive episodes, either!

I do feel kind of "down" today, but not sure why other than the rainy weather.

[Zuleikaa]

I was wondering if it was the OOO or the D. They don' t feel tight in a bad way. They feel as if the muscles are tightening or the circulation is working better. They don't have as much edema.

Dee
Sounds like you're definitely having a reaction. Foaming, huh? Lol, lol!!! I don't want to laugh. You're definitely detoxing something. D has a lot of intestinal interactions as its deficiency is indicated in colon and intestinal cancers, Crohn's disease, divercuticulitis, Celiac-Sprue, colitis, intestinal problems, malabsorption and inflammatory bowel disease. And then there's kidney and liver function. No telling what it's doing in your body, especially with your myriad exposures to possible toxins.

Sounds like you need to find as small a dose as you can tolerate to slow its detoxifying or interactive effects while still reaping the benefits of the additional D. You might also want to experiment with a different carrier for the D. It might be the carrier and not the D you're reacting to. I admit that's a bit far fetched but it is possible.

I hope you feel better soon.

[KittenLady]

Foaming, huh? Lol, lol!!! I don't want to laugh.
That's OK -- I'm making bad puns about it myself! I thought I must've swallowed some dry Alka-Seltzer. :lol: It'll all work out in the end... :D

[steveed]

It's supposed to be foaming at the MOUTH, you got it all turned around! I'm doing fine, just been distracted lately. I am glad I discontinued the BCAAs though...they were giving me hell in ANY amount!

Dee-could the BCAAs be giving you hell too?

Per the Weston Price website, I'm taking 2 tsp. of Cod Liver oil with 1 teasp of grass fed butter oil every morning. This means I only take the dry doses of D at lunch and dinner. Still feel perky! Don't worry Dee, 2 tsp. is a way small amount to get anywhere near A toxicity. Worry if I start taking 2 Tablespoons a day..(it ain't gonna happen.) :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[KittenLady]

Hi Steve ~ I had gut troubles before the BCAAs, and cut back on those as the gut troubles got worse. When I increase D3 again, I'm going to try a different brand with different "inactive ingredients" to see if one of those was getting me -- and I'll leave out the BCAAs.

Oh, yeah, and I forgot to mention: I had blood tests for kidney and liver function a few months ago, and both were great. :thup: So, I think my body is eliminating properly.

After 48 hours of cutting back on D3, I am not having gut problems.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I was going to suggest switching brands. I talked to people here who are taking the D and no one is having your effects. You are so special, lol!!!

I'm doing fine here. I take 1 BCAA with each D dose and it's not bothering me.

Funny I wanted something sweet, really I just wanted something more. I ate some chocolate. It didn't taste that great!! Weird!!! I'm still waiting for the lack of appetite though it has decreased.

[Lessara]

Hi!! I'm now taking an extra 400mg (I think) of D. I'm new, anything I need to look out for? Also any side affects? I was having some muscle aches this weekend don't know if it was vitamin D or a virus :D

[quietone]

the main symptom I noticed when I took too much was extreme irritability.

[quikdeb]

Continuing on the D and thankfully, not having any of the troubles Dee is having! :thup:

The only thing I notice is a marked decrease in appetite and therefore having a bit of trouble finding anything that really sounds good. I'm not feeling well, either, but think it's a bug I picked up from the kids...not the D. This may also have something to do with the appetite, though I'm not known for EVER losing that....

I'm taking 800 per day on top of what is in my vitamin and in the milk I drink. There is 400 in each vitamin, though I doubt it's as good a source as the extra D I'm taking.

I am dropping some weight as well and hope that is a result of the D, however, it's probably a combination of the reduced appetite and increased activity. Whatever it is...I'll take it gladly.

Deb

[tokenyanke]

I'm still doing okay on the D. I have tried 1600 IU, but I think that caused some irritability, so I'd better stay with 1200 IU. At least I haven't had any more headaches.

Good deal on the weight loss, Deb...

[tokenyanke]

Where'd everyone go?

I'm gonna keep my D at 1000-1200 IU. I feel rather irritable when it gets any higher and I've noticed I get a bit constipated as well!
Had a great Thanksgiving and now I'm on my way to Brattonsville(where they filmed The Patriot with Mel Gibson)to see their special cooking demonstration. I love historical things like that. They do an awesome Candlelight Tour one weekend a year at Christmastime, too.

[Zuleikaa]

cindi
I think it's great that you've found your level. Right now I'm keeping mine in the 2400 range. I notice the difference when I get below that.

I think constipation with the too much D is one thing no one has commented on, lol!!!

[KittenLady]

Cindi ~ I think everyone has been busy stuffing their face! :lol:

I haven't been reporting because I'm on a sabbatical to give my gut a rest. :daze:

[tokenyanke]

I've enjoyed my 4 day weekend a lot! It will be hard to go back to work tomorrow.

I did the Brattonsville tour Friday. That was awesome. I really enjoyed it.

DBF and I went to see Polar Express yesterday. It's a cool movie. Today we rented "The Day after Tomorrow"... Talk about suspenceful! Wow!

DBF has a laser pointer and has been entertaining my cats with it! DH use to do that, too. It's funny to watch them. They've also had a blast with me dragging boxes of Christmas stuff out to be sorted thru. They have to check out each one.

The D is doing good now. I've been outside running the past 5 days and so I've got a little sunshine then, too. It must be helping my legs. I usually run on a treadmill 4 days a week and run outside 2 days a week. Running more than those 2 days outside usually tires my legs and they will be sore for a while. I stayed at work Wednesday and just changed clothes and ran there on my lunch break and then have run at home the past 4 days and my legs are feeling it but they aren't bad sore like I expected them to be. I am guessing it has to be the D helping.

I hope your tummy gets better, Kitten Lady.

[Zuleikaa]

D does help legs so it's likely. I've noticed my right knee hasn't been looking llike it usually does.

[quietone]

Hello!

I was just away for the holidays.

I am keeping my D at 1200, anything more seems to bring out the irritability, but I am thinking I may need to raise it as the winter months progress.

My DH has to keep his at about the 2400 range. Anything less than that and his SAD comes on full force very quickly.

[tokenyanke]

I stayed at 800 IU yesterday. I think I'll go by if I get any sunshine or not as to how much I take. Although now that I'm back at work, I'll be back inside more.

[Zuleikaa]

Quietone
I'm that way too. I can really feel the difference if I go below 2400 IU!!

Cindi
That sounds like a good strategy.

[quikdeb]

Reporting for status D update...

Still taking the same amount and can't say that I notice anything different at all. I have been hungrier for the past two days so not sure whether the lack of hunger was illness or D related. Somtimes I have hungry days when I'm losing...wouldn't that be wonderful! Jury's still out on this...other than that..status quo.

Thinking of adding one more dose per day, but not sure yet.

Like Cindi, the bathroom experience tends to be much more on the clogged up side, though, that is completely usual for me.

I do have a bit of a bumpy rash on my face. Related?? Wonder. Kind of like a bunch of tiny pimples.....PUBERTY AGAIN!!! :eek: Seems to be getting better over the past couple of days. What do you think?

Glad everyone had a good holiday...

Deb

[steveed]

Did well until I got to a friends house on the day after Thanksgiving...chocolate covered almonds, port wine, more chocolate and some artichoke dip to die for. I wasn't really tempted by these things...I just decided to do it.

Doesn't matter, my moods are fine and I'm back on track.

[KittenLady]

Hi Everyone,
My gut has quieted down, so I'm back up to 800 IU with no ill effects thus far. :thup:

[tokenyanke]

Deb,

I seemed to have some rash and even zits on my legs and butt, which is very uncommon for me(sorry for the visual that brings), for several weeks. It seems to be improving now, though. Probably one of those toxin cleansing effects, though, I would say. Should that be a clue as to where I have the most toxin buildup! lol... Oh... I have got to stop talking like this! lol

Right now, my face is clearer than it's been in years and it's even PMS time!

Steve... Well, at least you blew it on worthwhile things! Glad you're back on track.

[Zuleikaa]

D Update here, too!!
I have felt a bit drained, lethargic the past couple of days. Started getting the munchies, too!! Didn't realize what was happening until last night. Duh!! Time to up the D. Was at 2400 IUs, 2800 with my multi. I'll up it another dose to 3200. I don't like feeling this way. Now I know what to do for it though!!

Does anyone else find that sweet things are tasting kinda flat? I get this thought of having something sweet, remember it as tasting good and then it tastes kind of flat. On the other hand, savory/spicy tastes good to me. Weird.

[quietone]

That's interesting. I will pass that on to my DH regarding the D.

Sweets always don't taste as good as I remember when I low carb. But things like potato chips...man they taste great!

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
No, I haven't noticed any change in the taste of sweets! But I, too, am reaching for the salty stuff lately, too. Going for salt is one symptom of adrenal stress.

Still at the 800 IU level, with no BCAAs this time. Gut is still doing well, and head is doing well. :thup:

[Zuleikaa]

SAD symptoms came back. Took another dose of D when I got home. I found that not enough D causes me to retain water too. After that extra dose at home I was in the bathroom every half hour. Had to get up three times during the night too.

I think I have to increase the D at every dose so I don't get that afternoon slump/SAD symptoms. At first I didn't even realize what was happening as SAD starts subtlely. I just thought I was tired and had no energy from staying up late the past couple of nights. I was so tired last night I went to bed at 8.30.

[Zuleikaa]

Well the extra D took hold!!! Amazing!!! I ate breakfast a late lunch and just had supper. Didn't eat much for supper. Got full fast. This after four days of feeling the nibbles and hitting the starch!!

Oh, and I'm awake!!!

I love vitamin D!!!!

[KittenLady]

I'm sticking with 800 IU for a while longer. So far, so good. :thup: My head is behaving itself, and I'm not getting any holiday "blues," so it's helping.

Zule ~ glad you're doing so well!

[quikdeb]

Had to use the connection that Dee so lovingly provided for me. She's such an :angel: .

I upped the D to 3x day on Monday. No noticeable differences....other than for a short time after taking each dose I feel super charged...like I've taken in a mega dose of caffeine. It wears off quickly, but I do notice it.

My acne is clearing up slowly...I'm sure Cindi's right about it's origin. I suppose I just assumed that with the coconut and oregano oil going I should be toxin free. There's that "assume" word again! :lol: Anyway, I'm just waiting for my new, beautiful skin to appear.

Zule,
Glad you're up again. Don't worry me like that. Sounds like you're going to have to adjust your doses on an as needed basis. You're so good at listening to your body.

Dee,
Glad you're doing well too....keep adjusting slowly. We don't want you on your potty run again!

Deb

[tokenyanke]

Same here, Deb... I thought I was well detoxed, too! Shows what I get for thinking! :lol:

I started feeling some faint PMS cramps last night... Took an extra dose of D... TOM started and I am feeling pretty darn good. DBF likes the change... Says I'm way more cuddly and affectionate at TOM and he likes it. :thup:

My dad has prostate cancer so I sent some of the weblinks to DM to read to see if maybe he wants to take more D to see if that helps out. They seem interested.

[Zuleikaa]

The D level being upped certainly helped!!! I felt so good last night I mopped floors, lol!!! And cleaned up a little more!!! Yay, D!!!

Cindi
Amazing D deficiency is implicated in so many illness. Might be that the rise in illnesses like cancers and CFS and fibro are caused by changes in human life from agricultural and outdoors to indoor work and long work hours, i.e., not enough sun.

Also amazing how all these supplements have synergy. Just when you think you're all cleaned, more toxins are found.

OOO works on stuff that shouldn't be in your body, nonnative bacteria, pathologens, etc. D works on how your body should work correctly. They both detox but different things.

This stuff is fascinating!!

[Lessara]

What levels are you all at right now?
I'm only at 80mgs

[tokenyanke]

I stay mostly at 800 IU per day, but if I start to "lag", I up it to 1200 IU. Any higher and I tend to start getting irritable!

[quikdeb]

I'm at 2000 counting what's in my multi. I'm also a milk drinker so get a bit there...not much I know.

Zule...
Do you take a BCAA with every dose of D adding and decreasing as you do?

Deb

[Zuleikaa]

I'm at 3600-4000 IU/day.

Deb
I take 3-4 BCAA/day. I don't worry about matching exactly. I take 1 BCAA for every 2-3 D. Now I'm taking 1200 D at a time. I don't match with multi or milk.

[KittenLady]

I'm still at 800 IU, and feeling fine. :thup:

[steveed]

800 I.U.s from the cod liver oil
+ 800 of the dry

[tokenyanke]

Pretty good day today. I had some backache and a little cramping last night from TOM. It's my "right side" month, though, and that seems to be the tougher side for me and the side I had the cyst on. I was still able to run my 5+ miles this morning and shopped with DBF all day today. I'm very ready to get a good nights' sleep tonight, though!

At least another lb was gone this morning! I was very happy about that! I'm kind of liking this D thing! lol...

[Vel]

What a fascinating thread and challenge this is. I wasn't busy today at work so I was able to read it right through. I have been taking D, but not the BCAA's, so now I have a challenge to go out and try to find them. I will remember that tip about looking in the bodybuilding section of the health food store.

thanks for all the input here, everyone.

[tokenyanke]

Glad to see you here, Vel.

I had a pretty good day... Kind of down this morning... and it has been rainy and cool all day. Once I ran during lunch, I felt better. It usually does tend to lift my spirits... Then another 1/2 lb being gone also helped!

[steveed]

I've had a few weird bingy moments, but not as bad as without the D. Right now I'm taking all sorts of weird things...bee pollen, royal jelly, nutritional yeast and cod liver oil. Now I'm a Weston Price cult freak. Let's all dance around Sally Fallon! To tell you the truth, I don't know what to believe anymore...everyone sounds so convincing...and no, I didn't start getting cravy when I began taking these things. Let's face it folks, it's just that time of year.

[Zuleikaa]

Steve
I think it's time to up the D a bit. I found that when the first week of December came, the cravings came back and so too the WTF feeling and tiredness. Once I was on an increased dose of D for a couple of days, they went away again.

I found I want something a little sweet and have been making inroads into the chocolate, mostly because it's there. I'm thinking of making jello. I just want an ending, not something heavy.

[quietone]

Zuleikka.

I may have passed over a post, but I thought you were taking St. John's Wort too? If so, then I would guess it is not just the D helping; it is also the SJW? :confused:

Although the Vit D helps me, it will not cure my SAD. If I take over 1200 or so I get terribly grouchy. Which may explain why I get so grouchy in the mid-summer.

My SAD is not just a Vit D thing, it is also a light/serotonin thing so I am going to have to supplement with something else too. It has been raining here for two days and is supposed to rain through Saturday and I am feeling the lack of light big time! Even though I use a light...I don't think I have enough time in the morning to use it long enough as the winter rolls on.

So,...sigh! :rolleyes:

[Zuleikaa]

Quietone
I don't use SJW, just the D. I was suggesting that Steve up the D for now because winter has become deeper. So, perhaps, a dose that made him irritable a month or so ago will not make him so now but will provide balance. I need more d now, more when it's cloudy for days and less when it is sunny.

I think of D supplementation as a continuum, varying with the weather and time of year. What would be too much in early fall won't be enough in deep winter.

[quietone]

I'm glad to hear that you've got a complete cure!

I wish I did. ho-hum.

My DH is like you; found that the D helps him tremendously and doesn't seem to need anything else.

[KittenLady]

As a result of the horrible carb cravings this week, I've upped my D3 by 400 IU. My D intake is now 1200 IU a day. I'm leaving out the BCAAs still, so I'll see if my gut stays normal. If so, I'll stay at 1200 IU for at least a week.

[Dianee]

I just received my order of Vitamin D with the BCAA, so guess I will join everyone with the Vitamin D Challenge. I have been debating rather to start today, or wait until Sat when I have the day off. I probably will start this morning.

I am going to start with 800 IU at first. My muliti vitamins have 400 IU, so that willl bring me up to 1200 for the day. I will start out with just 2 BCAA's also.

I will keep you posted on how it works.

[quietone]

Dee,

Are you still following low carb? Just wondering since you are getting cravings. I know they come along with the winter, but I don't get cravings if I maintain my carbs at a ketosis level.

[Equinox]

Today, according to the website of the net store I'm using, they're going to ship my D and BCAAs. It's about time, because I seem to be developping a rather strange and disturbing pattern lately... In the morning, I have panic attacks. As long as I'm aware of them they aren't going to keep me locked in my appartment, but they are exhausting! And then, as if that wasn't enough, in the evening or afternoon, I get the dreaded "afternoon slump" Absolute entropy... This has got to stop! I want my D3!!!

[Zuleikaa]

Today, according to the website of the net store I'm using, they're going to ship my D and BCAAs. It's about time, because I seem to be developping a rather strange and disturbing pattern lately... In the morning, I have panic attacks. As long as I'm aware of them they aren't going to keep me locked in my appartment, but they are exhausting! And then, as if that wasn't enough, in the evening or afternoon, I get the dreaded "afternoon slump" Absolute entropy... This has got to stop! I want my D3!!!Panic/anxiety attacks have been linked to D deficiency.

Welcome Dianee!!!

[steveed]

I had major panic attacks last winter...they're not even on the docket this time. I am now taking 1750 I.U. D a day and feeling better. Bingy tendencies gone again.

(950 I.U. in dry form, 800 in the Cod Liver Oil)

[KittenLady]

Quietone ~ I'm never in ketosis, since I'm not on Atkins. I am on Schwarzbein, which is low carb but not as low as Atkins.

The bad news is, by upping the D3, the severe diarrhea came back this morning. I'm out of this challenge because I can't get the dose up to where it'll do any good.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
You are surely the canary in the mine. I'm sorry your reaction came back. Did you get your D from Swanson's? Did you switch carriers?

It's such a shame!! I'm at 4000 and having no problems. Perhaps you could stay at 800? It might keep the migraines at bay. Some is better than none. I'm sure the D is doing you some good albeit at a slower pace.

I was meaning to ask...How did your migraine pattern this past November compare with last year's?

You're welcome to stay with us. We like your style, lol!!!

[KittenLady]

Thanks, Zule! No, I didn't get it from Swanson. I got my D3 from the local health food store, and have tried 4 different national brands so far. :daze: The best results I had were with Country Life. And that's the one that induced this last reaction.

I'll be happy to check in here -- you like my style, eh? Cheeky? A real blow-out? Everything comes out in the end? My graphic descriptions? http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/toliot3.gif

I'll probably go back to my 800 IU/day level.

My migraines for the month of November were half of what they were last year at this time. :agree: So the D3 is helping with the migraines. I just don't get the rest of my reaction.

Steve mentioned that he is taking a D3 that is in dry form -- am I remembering that correctly? If so, Steve, what brand is it? I would be willing to try a dry one next.

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I'm glad you're going to maintain at least the 800 IU. Perhaps the dry form will be more compatible with your system. I hope so!!

Yes, I love your check and you're discriptions, lol!!! You are such a fountain!!!

Steve
I'm glad you upped the D and it is working for you!!

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
I thought of something else. If the dry form gives the same results, it might, indeed, be the detoxifying effects of the D. In that case you might consider setting aside a day every once in a while to stay on the toilet, lol!!! Seriously though. You might take 4,000-10,000 IU D3 and live in the bathroom for the day. How much worse can it be? Just speculating. You might be able to deal with the results for the benefits if you could schedule the events.

It's way out there but sometimes I think that way, lol!!!

[quietone]

Dee,

I am taking the dry form of D3. Just the plain ole' CVS brand, this is the same kind my DH is taking. He is having much better success than me!

The thing is, for both us, it is having the opposite effect. Meaning we lean more towards the constipation side of things. Which for me is great, because usually I have digestive problems that are...ummm...let's just say the food seems to go through real quick.

But it has definitely stopped his anxiety attacks which he gets each winter. He always has anxiety, but it usually gets much worse this time of year. So he is loving life right now!

[Dianee]

I did take my first dose of vitamin D yesterday. I took 1 400 IU in the monring along with the BCAA and my muliti vitamin and additional Calcium/Magnesium, and took another Vit D with BCAA at noon. So far I haven't noticed any difference, but it really is too early too, I imagine.

I will keep you posted.

[Vel]

I took my first dose of my BCAA+++ this morning. The pills are HUGE! My vitamin D pills are 1000IU. I guess that is a lot, compared to what I am seeing people talking about on here. I wonder if I should only be taking it once a day, or splitting them like I was doing before? Any thoughts, Zuleikaa? :)

[Zuleikaa]

Dianee
D at the dose you're taking will be a very subtle thing. You'll find yourself with a bit more energy, a bit more wide awake and a bit less appetite.

Vel
I would split the dose/pill and take half twice a day. Perhaps one first thing or with breakfast and the other with lunch.

[Vel]

That's what I will do...half a D plus one horse pill in the morning and the same at lunch :)

Thanks!

[tokenyanke]

I'm still doing pretty well at 1200 IU. I bumped it to 1600 yesterday and may do that today as well with all the rain! TOM ended... a little back ache today, though. Not bad other than that. I still have more trouble with constipation than I do with the runs from the D, though. I am an exception to the rule apparently! lol

I do pretty well with cravings as a general rule... If I wanted to, I could probably eat carbs non stop and lose all control, but maybe I've finally mastered my eating, or maybe it's that I know I'll suffer for it physically later on if I do!! I eat HUGE salads at night and feel very contented afterwards so don't want anything else usually.

Getting ready to go to the gym and run on the treadmill.

[KittenLady]

I'm too chicken to take a huge dose of D3. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage05/17.gif At this point, I'm not sure if it's a detoxification event, or a toxic event. It's hard to tell because of the violent nature of the reaction. I'll try a dry form of D to see if it's one of the oils in the minigels that's upsetting my system.

I got a message in my journal from m1whoWaits, with a suggestion of different supplements instead of D. I think I'll try her suggested method for the time being, along with 800 IU of D3 a day (the dry form, if I can find it). :agree:

[Vel]

I have nothing to report so far...but no news is good news I imagine. I noticed that my multivitamin also has 400IU of D3, so I am actually getting 1400.

[quikdeb]

Have been upping my dose every few days. Today I'm at 2400 plus the multi, though something I read said the what's in the multi didn't really work that well...anyway, I figured as long as I'm not having any bad effects it wouldn't hurt to see what a bit more does. Really, I'm not noticing much at all. As Cyndi predicted, my skin has cleared up and looks really bright. That's a plus. Not having any bathroom issues. :lol:

I was taking Pamolar again at night for my restless legs. That started up again in about September and I wasn't sleeping well. I take a low dose of it (10mg.) , but it helps me sleep. I quit it a couple of nights ago and my legs seem fine, though my knee is hurting again. I still slept well so maybe I won't need it. I had been off of it for over a year up until Sept. Don't want to take anything I don't need.

That's the lowdown for me..

Have a great weekend,
Deb

[Dianee]

I really don't have much to report. I don't feel any different at all. Since I know that the 800 IU does not bother me. tomrrow I am going to up my dose to 16oo IU, plus the 400 IU that is in my multi vitamins.

I do have a question. If I double my dose of Vitamin D, how much BCAA should I take? Should I just continue on with the 1 tablet twice a day?

Will let you know how I feel with the double dose. :wave:

[KittenLady]

OK, I don't give up very easily at all! I managed to find dry D3, 400 IU a tablet, at our grocery store (really cheap, too!). So, one last chance here. :agree: If this dry form gives me problems, that's that. And only $2.50 lost!

I'll try the 1200 IU again. That's my current "wall." The last "blow-out" had me sitting on the porcelain throne for so long that my legs went to sleep. :lol:

Cross your fingers for me (or, if you're German, hold your thumbs).

[Zuleikaa]

Deb
The pain in your knee might be the D repairing tissue damage. Before the D I couldn't kneel. It was very painful. Now I can kneel, when I have to, without pain. It has to be the D.

I was thinking DH might want to give the D a try.

Dianee
Keep the BCAAs at 1 2-4 times a day. So only take one per D dose.

Dee
Fingers crossed and thumps held!!

[Dianee]

I was going to increase my Vit D yesterday from 800 to 1600, not including the vitamin D in my muliti vitamin. I started off first thing in the am with 2-400 IU along with 1 BCAA, and then I was going to repeat it again at noon, but guess what? I forgot to take the ones at noon. Totally slipped my mind. :bash: So I ended up just taking the 800 for the day.

Today I have taken the 1600 IU along with the 400 IU that is in my multi vitamin for a total of 2000 IU along with 3 tablets of the BCAA. So far I haven't noticed anything different, but it still might take longet before I notice anything. At least I am not having any bathroom issues yet and hope I don't.

Dee- Glad that you are back giving it another try. I will keep my fingers crossed that you don't have any trouble with the powder. Keep us posted.

[KittenLady]

Hi folks,
Thus far, the dry D3 is doing fine. :thup: I'm up to 1200 IU, and thus far no intestinal upsets... I'm almost afraid to say it!

[Zuleikaa]

Fingers crossed!!!

[tokenyanke]

Still doing okay here at 1200 IU with 1600 some days.

Working on my last 3 lbs, which will probably be slow now that Christmas is upon us and my company Christmas party is Friday. I will, however, be careful... I didn't have much sugar or junk over the weekend, but it was still too much and I ached all day long yesterday!

[Dianee]

I have been taking 2000 IU and so far the only thing different that I notice is my night sweats from menopause has returned. :cry: I haven't had them in well over a year. I am not too sure if it is the vitamin D or the BCAA causing this or not. Other than that, I haven't noticed anything else yet.

I will continue to take the 2000 IU and see what happens.

[quietone]

It's probably the D. I have had the same thing happen. Thought it was just me.

[Zuleikaa]

I had the same thing happen, too. It hasn't happened to me for a while though.

I'm at 4000-4800.

[KittenLady]

OK, Zule, uncross your fingers. :D I'm at 1200 IU, and no adverse symptoms. :yay: My tummy is just fine. I think the dry version is better for me. I'm not going higher for the time being.

Fortunately, I haven't had any return of perimenopausal symptoms.

[plum]

a Total Viking checking in :wave:
starting cautiously on 650 iu D .....1x400 D and 250 combined with cal.
Lets see what happens......

thank you everyone for interesting posts so far. Some cautious web sites I read say diarrhoea is a sign of D toxicity.... others recommend much higher doses. So just following instincts here.

[quietone]

Good luck, plum.

Hope it helps you. Yes, some have had the problem. Dry D seems to cause less of this.

[Vel]

So far so good. I'm taking about 1800 D most days plus 3 of the giant BCAA's. The only real change I have noticed is an improvement in the bathroom department. Much less worry about constipation, but not to the other extreme either. That has been great!

Ok..one other thing I have noticed that is even more embarrassing than talking about your bowels.. I seem to notice that I have a bit more.. um.. interest.. in sex. There! I said it! LOL I wonder if this does something to hormones, which would explain the menopausal symptoms too, I guess.

Anyway..I like it! :o :)

[Zuleikaa]

Tracy
Lol!!! Lol!!! I'm sure Ken appreciates D's effects!!!

I haven't noticed that, maybe deliberately. I don't even want to take note.

Quietone
Have you considered upping the D? A higher dose right now probably won't make you irritable. You could up it in increments until you start getting irritable and then go down a bit. Many seem to need more D now and again in Jan/Feb. Then in Mar/Apr the need for supplementing D starts decreasing as the sun reappears and gets stronger.

It seems for most of us the urge for carbs, alcohol and bingeing tendencies during winter are clearly alleviated/obliterated by increasing D.

[Zuleikaa]

Equinox
Did you recieve your D and BCAAs yet?

[quietone]

Maybe I will up it some and see what happens Zuleikaa, thanks for the suggestion.

[Equinox]

No, but they're on their way, apparently. Maybe on monday. I did find out on little snag, though. I got this nice, polite e-mail thanking me very much for ordering from them and informing me that my order was on it's way. I've ordered three times in rapid succession (don't ask) and none have arrived yet. This mail was concerning the last of the orders. Everything was on it's way, she said. EXCEPT the D!!!!! I get BCAAs, and Atkins vitamins. NOT D. Thankfully the other two orders were filled correctly. I had to check the website of the store to find out that they were "sold out, please reorder". ARGGGHHHH....! Guess two months supply instead of three isn't so bad.... I'll be ordering more sooner, is all.

[tokenyanke]

Still doing good here as long as I don't go more than 1200 IU... Otherwise I'm very moody. I don't think I can do the BCAA's if they have L-Arginine in. I found out the hard way a few years ago that I cannot take that! So, I completely avoid anything that has it in.

I'm feeling really tired today and still have my company party tonight! Uh oh!

[KittenLady]

Still doing OK here, at between 800 and 1200 IU. Not going to try any higher dose at this time.

Both DH and I woke up early with nasty weird headaches -- I'll bet they're from dinner last night. :agree:

[Dianee]

I seem to be doing OK on the 2000 IU per day. I really haven't noticed too much other than it might be helping me to stick with my plan better, at least that is what I am thinking. Usually this time of year I have totally gone off of plan, because all the goodies in the house and at work, but so far so good.

[Dianee]

Yesterday, I upped my dosage from 2000 IU to 2400 IU, plus the 400 IU in my multi vitamin.. Big, mistake for me. My cravings for some reason came back on me big time. This happend not too far after lunch when I took my second set of pills, which was 1200 IU. Maybe it had something to do with my BCAA not being in balance with the dosage of my Vitamin D. I have only been taking 3 BCAA. I am going to cut it back down to the 1600 IU and leave it at that for the time being. It seemed like I was doing pretty good on that dosage.

Other than that, nothing else is new with the vit D experiment.

[tokenyanke]

I've done pretty good this weekend and have been out running each morning and got some good sunshine along with my vitamin D pills. I even seemed to have a spurt of energy today and cleaned up a lot until my ex hubby came over to look at my van(for sale). He wants it and we talked a while and when I came back in it's like I had lost my focus and haven't accomplished too much since then other than starting half a dozen things that I haven't finished yet! :help:

[KittenLady]

Still going fine on 800 to 1200 IU a day. :thup: The dry D3 is much better for me than the D3 in oil in gelcaps.

[plum]

Have a new lease of life these past few days... thats good!
1 or 2 400 iu D ( depending if I remember to take it :) )
multivit/cal.mag./K+/fish oils

Im also making an effort to eat tryptophan rich foods ( tryptophan the precursor for seratonin ) I do believe this makes a difference for me personally too.
turkey and peanuts :yum:

best wish everyone

[KittenLady]

I haven't checked in for a few days, so I thought I'd mention that I'm up to 1200 or 1600 IU a day! I'm doing just great, so it must've been a reaction to either the oils in the gel-cap form, or the D3 somehow reacts with the oils in which it's suspended, thus altering its activity.

Well, can you tell that I'm in my "Former Researcher Analytical Mode"? :lol: I found it curious that ladies are having hormonal effects with D3. I just realized that I'm doing fine hormonally. At this time of year, that's not normal! For the last 3 years, I've had to increase my intake of estrogen by 0.3 mg a day for the 2 weeks before and the 2 weeks after the Winter Solstice. Guess what? -- This year, I'm fine. I haven't needed to increase my hormonal intake. The difference? -- D3.

So, I went to my old standard textbook, Goodman & Gilman's "The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics" -- the Gold Standard of pharmacology texts. To review, D3 is made from 7-dehydro-cholesterol (all cholesterol isn't bad!). When it's hit with sunlight in the skin, the B ring breaks and it turns into cholecalciferol (D3). These compounds, very basically speaking, are steroids. So, we're seeing steroidal effects. BTW, they put toxic levels of D3 intake at 50,000 IU daily over a long period of time.

So, let's enjoy ourselves! :lol: (especially Tracy's DH!)

[Zuleikaa]

Dee
Interesting info. And all contained in the links I gave. Now you all read ALL the links, right, lol!!! D3 is truly a super hormone and very safe at the doses we're taking.

Interesting info too...
What do they say about a prophet? Something like, "A prophet is not respected (listened to) in his/her own land." I've been telling my daughter and one of my friends in Boston about D3 for a while and even sent my daughter a supply of supplements including D3. What happened...My daughter is now 29 and exhibiting signs of SAD and my friend was just diagnosed with throid problems and vitamin D deificiency!!! Did they take the supplements I recommended/sent? NOOOOOO!!! Hopefullly my daughter will/has started taking them.

My friend had to get a megadose shot of D and is taking pharmacological doses of D3 by prescription. She said when the doctor told her she said, "My friend told me in September that I might have a vitamin D deficiency." Duh, lol!!!

My friend is just lucky that a lot of this research is being done in Boston.

[tokenyanke]

Just checking in! Doing pretty good here. I'm off work for 4 days! I'm gonna plan on running every morning(no Christmas vacation from that!). My weight is maintaining right now, but I figure, Hey, it's the holidays and I'm not gaining, so it's cool by me! I'll work harder once Christmas is over to get these last 3 lbs off.

Getting ready to go to the family get together. I've been busy already today getting things done and have to get my butt in gear to leave soon. I'm stopping to get my cell phone checked on the way and to see my son and get his gifts to him. I sold my van to my ex hubby and forgot I had extra oil and a repair manual for it so I'm taking it to DS for him to deliver when he sees his dad tomorrow. My ex's wife is nice and we can talk just fine, but my ex said she's always been jealous of me and still is, so I try to keep a proper distance there! lol... No way could he and I survive one day together, so I don't know what she is worried about! We are fine as friends, but to be together 24/7, one of us would have to die!

I hope everyone has a great Christmas. Not sure when I'll get to check in again, but it will be soon, I'm sure!

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
Interesting info. And all contained in the links I gave. Now you all read ALL the links, right, lol!!! D3 is truly a super hormone and very safe at the doses we're taking.

Nothing like reconfirmation from a different source, and Goodman and Gilman is one of the greatest pharmacology texts. It's used in medical schools. And yes, I did read all your links! :D What a shame that your friend had to get an injection of D, and that your daughter didn't listen earlier. I just had to find a form of D3 that my body would tolerate. I still can't get my DH to take it (and he gets SAD really bad), though, so I know how you feel! :lol:

Yesterday, I had a severe migraine from smoke exposure. I wrote about it in my journal. In a nutshell, our neighbor 2 houses down had an amazing fire -- turned out to be on their deck. We went over to see what we could do and make sure everyone was safe and accounted for. So, we got exposed to smoke from burning wood, paint, plastic, latex, etc. Yucky.

I was getting a headache today, so I was certain to take 1600 IU of D3. I'm doing better this evening. I might actually try 2000 IU tomorrow.

I hope everyone had a lovely holiday today!

[KittenLady]

OK, miracles do happen! DH has started taking D3! :yay: He's at 800 IU a day! We'll see how he does.

[tokenyanke]

"Yes, Virginia, There IS a Santa Claus!" lol... Good news on DH taking the D3! I hope it works well for him...

I just started TOM and went thru a couple of bad days... real moody and upset at the smallest things! Poor DBF! He's so patient... But was probably glad he only had to deal with it over the phone and email and NOT in person! lol... I took extra D trying to see if I needed more, but that didn't help. By the end of the 2nd day I was worse than ever, so I backed off. Once I started, I was back to being all happy and wonderful! No other symptoms, though... Had about 2 minutes cramping and that was it other than the mega emotions!

Not much planned for New Year's Eve. Will probably stay home and watch tv and be an old fuddy duddy! lol

[quikdeb]

Thought I should duck in and make a D report.

I had the D up to 3200 IU for a brief time and found that I was hungry, snacky, and that my face was constantly looking red and irritated. Also, I had a bit more of a problem with constipation, which is fairly normal for me anyway. I stayed long enough to see if any of these symptoms would subside, but they didn't. I have this way of always thinking that if something is good....more is better. I'm now down to 1600 plus vitamins and my face is looking much improved. I am very noticably more in control of eating as I fill up sooooo quickly. I get hungry, but have a much decreased appetite. The bathroom problem seems to be fixing itself also so I'm going to stick here and see where we go. For me, anyway, more does not seem to be better. I'm not really adept at listening to my body, but I think I'm tuning in better. Maybe it's the D! :lol: :lol:

Deb

[KittenLady]

I'm at 2000 IU of D3 a day, and doing fine. :thup: I started on 2000 IU on Wednesday Dec 29. On Thurs, I had a classic migraine in the evening, which lasted through Friday. But, it went away. I'm still on the 2000 IU a day; the migraine did not return. I'll stay at this level for at least a week and re-assess the dose.

[Equinox]

I received my D3 from England about a week ago. I have a question for those of you who have experienced irritability and/or a red face/heat flash. I got both of those effects after a few days of a high dose (about 3000 IU counting cod liver oil and other supplements like the cal/mag). My two questions are, did any of you stay on that dose for a while and if so, did the effect go away after a while? and has anyone eliminated the D and still had those effects, in other words, is it the D or could it be something else that we are all also taking?

[Dianee]

I am still taking 1600 IU per day plus the 400 that is in my multi vitamin. I seem to be doing OK with that. I really haven't noticed anything. I might take 1 more to make it 2000 IU. I don't want to go any higher with it than that, because when I was at 2400 IU, I had horrible cravings and was starved and kind of moody also, but I think that was because I was so hungry.

[Zuleikaa]

Equinox
I think the red face/moody is a signal that you have too much D. I also itched when taking a hig dose of D but that went away after a while. I notice if I go over 4000 plus the amount in my multi, it comes back. I don't think any of us waited it out more than a day or so before heading back down. The reaction might also be a matter of the form of D3. There seem to be fewer reactions with the dry form.

I'm on 3600/day in three doses.

Dee
It's great to hear that DH is giving it a try!!!

[quietone]

No, I didn't wait it out. I was just too irritable and too hot. I am taking the dry and just backed it down one pill each time. There is no doubt it was the D.

[Equinox]

I haven't had that reaction again that I can remember the last few days. I'll be observant in the next few days and see what happens. I do know I feel good, though!

[quietone]

Science and Supplement News: Vitamin D May Offer Cancer Protection

Getting adequate vitamin D may reduce the risk of cancer by 30 percent, according to the results of a forthcoming study from the Harvard School of Public Health. The study, which included 50,000 men, showed that rates of all types of cancer were 30 percent lower among those whose vitamin D intake was adequate. However, recent evidence suggests that more than 40 percent of all Americans have low vitamin D levels and deficiencies are believed to be widespread. Since our bodies can make vitamin D in response to sun exposure, most people maintain adequate levels during warm weather, but the further north you live, the less likely you are to get adequate sun exposure - and produce sufficient vitamin D - during the fall and winter months. Milk is fortified with vitamin D as is some orange juice. Good food sources of vitamin D are eggs, salmon (preferably wild Alaskan), mackerel and sardines. Most multivitamins contain vitamin D but often not enough to give you optimal levels, between 400 and 800 mg per day. The Harvard study has not yet been published but partial results were reported in The Boston Globe on December 30, 2004.

[Zuleikaa]

Vitamin d deficiency is probably a factor in African American men's higher rates of prostate and colon cancers.

[tokenyanke]

I'm still doing best at 1200 IU.

Flying out to see family tomorrow... In the north where all the snow has hit! So, hopefully it will be clear tomorrow and also Monday when I fly back! My dad turns 70 Saturday... He was born the same day and year as Elvis, so Elvis would've been 70 this Saturday... Just a bit of trivia for any Elvis fans! lol...

I thought I was gonna get a break from working out but Mom wants me to go to her gym with her at least on Saturday. But, it won't be a heavy workout for me, so that will be fine...

I'll check in when I get back. Have a great weekend!

[Zuleikaa]

I'm starting to feel spacey and out of it. I'm at the upper end of D but think I need more.

[quietone]

Zuleikka, do you use a light at all?

[Zuleikaa]

i have a light on my desk at work but haven't needed to use it at all this winter. I have it on now.

I'm almost hoping I'm coming down with something or am overtired. I'm going to take some melatonin this evening and try to get to bed by 8.30 and see if a good night's sleep helps.

[KittenLady]

Hi Zule,
Sorry you're feeling poorly. :there:

I haven't been sleeping very well, either. When I get to sleep, I sleep soundly. But getting to sleep has been tough, and then I'm suddenly Awake! and can't get back to sleep. http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage05/5.gif Maybe I'll try melatonin tonight.

DH is still taking his D3 and doing much better than last winter. I'm still at 2000 IU and doing just great. Headache incidence is half of usual. :yay:

[quikdeb]

I slept better than I have slept in weeks last night, and when I got up I noticed I had missed a dose of D. I'm wondering if I need to drop down one. I'm going to drop a dose for a few days and see if I sleep better. I also noticed, I'm sure because of the great rest I got, that my workout at the gym today was much more intense. Worth a shot. I always take my last dose 4-5 hours before bedtime,so I don't think I'm taking it too late. Anyway, we'll see.

DH is very, very impressed with the D. Says that really deep down tissue pain in his knee is gone. He's going to start cutting some if the ibuprofen and see how it goes. What I notice is his skin. So much brighter and less tired looking....even a few less lines, I think. Of course, that could be the let up of the pain level too. I don't think there's anything more aging than living with constant pain.

Deb

[quietone]

Great report! Glad it is working so well for both of you.

[AuntBillie]

What is SAD. I thought it meant "Standard American diet", but I do believe it is being used for something entirely different here.
Thanks
AuntBillie