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doreen T
Mon, Nov-27-00, 14:24
FMS - Fibromyalgia Syndrome CFS - Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

:) Many practitioners are recommending a high-protein, lower carbohydrate diet for managing symptoms of these two debilitating illnesses.

(1) Fibromyalgia: A Comprehensive Approach and The Fibromyalgia Relief Book by Miryam Williamson,
http://www.mwilliamson.com/regimen.htm

Until late in 1997 I ate a what I thought was a very healthy diet: about 50% complex carbohydrates, 20% proteins, and 30% fats (avoiding hydrogenated and saturated fats as much as possible.) . . . . . Now I am on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet consisting almost entirely of animal proteins and vegetables, no starches and no fruits. . . . . . . To my surprise, I find the diet quite satisfying. I have lost all interest in sweets. I am no longer overweight -- by my standards, not the insurance company charts. (If I weighed what the charts say --and I have, in earlier times -- I'd be gaunt.) I have more energy than ever before in my life. The reason: in my case, insulin turns carbohydrates into fat instead of energy. This, I believe, has been the cause of my fatigue in years past. The condition I've just described is called insulin resistance.
. . . . . . The way I eat now (I don't consider it a diet in the weight-loss sense) is based on Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution by Robert C. Atkins M.D. I count carbohydrates, not calories. I maintain my weight at 40 grams of carbohydrates a day. A typical slice of bread contains 20 grams of carbs, which gives you an idea of what this way of eating means. It's worth it for me. If you try this, you must drink at least eight 8-oz. glasses of water a day

Copyright ©1999, Miryam Ehrlich Williamson - ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
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(2) Reactive Hypoglycemia (RHG): FMS&MPS Complex Perpetuating Factor . .. . Dr. Devin Starlanyl,
http://www.sover.net/~devstar/hypogly.htm

People with reactive hypoglycemia (RHG) are often over­weight although this is not always the case. Those that are overweight are usually unable to lose the extra weight. A fat pad develops on your belly, and it won’t go away no matter what you do. The often overlooked factor about eating carbohydrates­ is that they stimulate insulin production. Insulin enables blood sugar to move to our biochemical “factories” in the cells, where it’s burned as fuel for your body. If there’s already an excess of insulin in your blood, and you eat a high carbohydrates meal or snack, the excess carbohydrates­ are stored as fatty acids in fat cells. If you have excess insulin in your blood, when you need more fuel your brain will tell your body not to use the stored fats as fuel. You become hungry for fast energy, so you eat more carbohydrates. You not only gain weight as fat, but you are also prevented from losing this fat.

RHG is common in people with FMS and FMS/MPS Complex. In FMS, it is enhanced by dysfunctional neurotransmit­ter and hormone regulation and other systemic mechanisms. Growth hormone, for example, is important in the regulation of glucose (Cryer, 1996), and yet it is often deficient in fibromyalgia (Crofford, 1996). Estrogen irregularities can affect glucose metabolism. With FMS, you crave carbohydrates but can’t make efficient use of them because of an electrolytic imbalance and other biochemical imbalances in your body. We produce adrenalin even when the blood sugar doesn’t fall. We know that the conversion of glucose into energy is abnormal in fibromyalgia (Eisinger, 1994). You crave carbohydrates, because you need energy. Since your insulin level is high, you take the carbohydrates and store them as fat, often around your belly area. Fortunately, by eating a balanced diet, you can teach your body to eliminate your excess fat by using it for energy.

Weight loss on a high carbohydrate diet is mostly water and muscle loss. Any subsequent weight gain is fat gain. The more carbohydrates you eat, the earlier adrenalin is produced as the blood sugar goes down. Blood sugar swings are more extreme and faster the more carbohydrates you eat.

Serotonin regulates the appetite for carbo-rich foods. This is influenced by our darkness and light cycle. Often carbohydrate cravers overeat only at certain times of the day. The rate of conversion of tryptophan to serotonin is affected by the proportion of carbohydrates in a person’s diet.

Barry Sears wrote a book called “Mastering The Zone”. It explains in detail why a ratio of 30/30/40 (the ratio of protein to fat to carbohydrate) is the healthiest for many people. . . . . This is one tough diet, because if you need it, you really crave carbohydrates. You have to try it for only a few days before your body informs you, “Yes, this is what you must do!” because you are attacked by whopping headaches and extreme fatigue as soon as your body begins its struggle for balance. Your excess fat will start to break down, and release large amounts of toxic substances and waste material. It is not fun. But diet alone is a treatment that works.

You must learn to eat moderate amounts of fat. Fat with your meals will decrease the flow of carbohydrates into the bloodstream and decrease your “carbocraving.” Cut down on the amount of carbohydrates you eat. Eat protein as part of your meals. It helps use up the fat stored in your body. When starting a meal, it is wise to eat some protein first. That allows its products reach your brain first. Exercise regularly to decrease the amount of insulin in your blood. Be sure to drink at least 8 ounces of water or a sugar-free decaffeinated beverage with each meal or snack.

Thanks to Drs. Lynne August, Barry Sears, Paul St. Amand, Janet Travell and David Simons and the Wurtmans for the basic research.
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(3) DIET AND FIBROMYALGIA -- From FIBROMYALGIA - NUTRITION RESOURCE CENTER 1-800-229-3376

Fibromyalgia patients should eat a balanced, whole foods diet to provide the body with the nutrients it needs to function well and to replace the nutrients that are depleted on a daily basis. Many of those with Fibromyalgia are high sugar eaters, and therefore every effort should be taken to minimize sugar intake as it an adversely affects energy levels when taken excessively. . . . .Try eliminating common food allergens such as milk, corn, wheat, eggs, and nightshade vegetables such as tomatoes, potatoes, pepper and eggplant.

Adequate protein is also important because it is used for tissue repair, in particular ligaments and tendons which are largely protein. Protein deficiency occurs in the diet when it is deficient in food containing the essential amino acids, or from an inability to digest food properly.

Sufficient Essential Fatty Acid in the diet also appears to be important, especially if it contains Gamma Linolenic Acid or GLA. In a study of 63 patients with post-viral fatigue, and myalgia, Essential Fatty Acid supplementation resulted in improvement in 74% of patients after 1 month and 85% after 3 months.
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(4) What your doctor may NOT tell you about fibromyalgia R. Paul St. Amand M.D.'s strict diet for hypoglycemia and weight reduction
http://www.guaidoc.com/PAGES/hypoglycemia.html

Hypoglycemia, low blood sugar, is .... an illness with many complaints. It represents a syndrome better defined as "carbohydrate intolerance." It is expressed by the inability to use certain carbohydrate loads effectively without adverse consequences. Some hypoglycemics suffer simultaneously from another condition, fibromyalgia, an illness that causes chronic symptoms similar to hypoglycemia. Simply put, the fibromyalgic has a deranged metabolism inducing contracted muscles, ligaments and tendons, which constantly burn fuel. Energy deprivation occurs system- wide. For those with a predisposition, yielding to carbohydrate craving provides the final push to induce hypoglycemia. These are ill patients who suffer overlapping symptoms of combined diseases. No compromise is allowed with the carbohydrate intolerance syndrome. One eats correctly or the illness continues. The reward is great, however, since well-being is exhilarating when contrasted with the disabling symptoms of hypoglycemia. It is yours to control.

Only a perfect diet will control hypoglycemia. It is not the food one adds but what one removes that determines recovery. Patients must eat no table sugar, corn syrup, honey, sucrose, glucose, dextrose or maltose. All heavy starches must be avoided including potatoes, rice, pasta etc. (see below). Excessive fructose is provided by the several pieces of fruit needed to make one glass of juice. Caffeine intensifies the action of insulin and is also forbidden.

Each hypoglycemic's tolerance for foods will vary. Judge your tolerance level by how you feel and adjust your intake of foods accordingly.

"It is not necessary for anyone to load their diet with carbohydrates, because the body can easily manufacture all it needs. Despite this fact, it is common for people to consume carbohydrates in the belief that they will be superenergized."

[Edited by doreen T on 27-11-00 at 16:32]

tamarian
Mon, Nov-27-00, 15:21
Great collection Doreen! I think we should add this to our "Studies" section?

Wa'il

IslandGirl
Wed, Jun-13-01, 18:52
(and if you don't mind a bowling reference, this is a 300 game!).

Wonderful stuff, Doreen. The only "bad" thing is that now I have to go and read all this stuff in its totality! :eek:

You amaze me, you wonderful woman.

gwilson38
Mon, Oct-29-01, 15:12
Great info thanks Doreen! I have fm and hypoglycemia and this WOL has been the closest thing to a cure I have come to

bellablue
Sat, Nov-03-01, 16:23
I discovered this thread by accident--guess I should look closer. lol... I also have FMS and though fairly new to High protein--low carbs, I have to say I do feel a bit better overall. Now I'd better study the articles Doreen and see exactly what they are saying. I do still have considerable distress in the evenings after 6pm (and I'm also recovering from a very bad car accident in June--so more soft tissue injuries), but I also rarely eat after 4 or 5pm so possibly I should try that. Just some little protein thing even if I'm not hungary.~~bella :roll:

gwilson38
Sun, Nov-04-01, 20:35
I have been eating the low-carb WOL for 7 months now and feel it is definitely the way for me to be healthiest--- especailly since I have FM. Im off my meds too, just take lots of supplements. I always eat something before bed, either left over meat or nuts. Sometimes when Im not hungry [ now thats rare cause I have a big appetite..lol] I will just have a slice of cheese. Anyway I hope U will find that this diet works as well for U.

chrisews
Tue, Nov-06-01, 16:58
Wow, I am so glad to hear that. I've been suffering from FM for 10 years now, Have been taking any number of different NSAID's and now I'm on Celebrex. I started this just this week, because I was hoping just the weight loss would help me . to hear that the diet itself will help and I can get off these meds eventually is really good news. thanks so much Doreen. Chris

Ka3n
Tue, Nov-06-01, 18:29
Doreen,
Have you ever tried the OTC Guaifenesin (or any uricosuric) treatment? If so, did you increase your calcium and phosphate supplements or any other? I realize I shall have to forgo my asprin (FM candy). From the guidoc pages you sited above.
Examination of 24-hour urine samples of patients who had begun guaifenesin show large increases in the excretion of phosphate and, in lesser amounts, calcium and oxalate. Though other anions might be involved, the preceding suggest a primary defect in phosphate (and possibly pyrophosphate) metabolism. If so, the following formula would account for depressed mitochondrial ATP generation: This makes me think that some adjusting might be called for. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

After reading your exercise journal, I'm inspired to get busy myself, but am concerned about the pain and fatigue that always follows...yoga is all I'm doing now.

doreen T
Fri, Nov-09-01, 02:12
No, I haven't tried the guai regimen. My doctor had a very negative view when I mentioned to her three years ago, but that isn't usually a deterrent for me ;).

Until recently, the only form of OTC guai that I knew of was cough syrup. It's not available in Canada as a tablet at all, not even by prescription. Some pharmacies carry generic expectorant with just guai (hard to find without the dextromethorphan or some decongestant/antihistamine) .. and I actually have seen sugar-free, although it has sorbitol, a sugar alcohol with lovely laxative effects, especially at the required dose, which I think is something like 600mg or more per day.

Anyway, did a search, and whaddya know, there's a Canadian company that sells guaifenesin powder, and empty gelatin capsules in bulk ... but a prescription is required. There is a very good FAQ too, about using guai for fibromyalgia. They ship to the US. Check it out here (http://www.fludan.com/guaifaq/guai11A.shtml#gen18)

One thing I do remember from previous readings ... getting RID of excess phosphates is one of the main goals of guaifenesin therapy. Of course, phosphates are in every food, natural or otherwise - meats, vegetables, etc. Some foods have an excess .. colas, processed meats being two biggies .. so it might be wise to limit those foods.

Not sure about the calcium and oxalates. I know that oxalates bind with calcium and prevent it from being absorbed from the bowel ... spinach, rhubarb, chard, beet greens are high in oxalates. So it may be that when oxalates are excreted in the urine, calcium follows suit by default. Since getting rid of oxalates is desirable, I guess losing calcium is an unfortunate consequence ... and so yes, supplemental calcium would be in order. Probably somewhat more than the 1,000mg per day RDA ... 1,500mg would be better. Supplemental vitamin D would be helpful, or lots of sunshine, to ensure the calcium is absorbed into the bones instead of just being excreted.

Salicylates ... yes, they do inhibit the effectiveness of the guai. And not just aspirin, as you know ... wintergreen mints, toothpaste, shampoos, acne creams, wart treatments, menthol, lip balm, aloe vera, etc, etc you name it, there's a long list, read this article (http://www.fludan.com/guaifaq/guaiinfo.shtml#gen12); the 4 following it are also about salicylate-free products. Fortunately, acetaminophen and ibuprofen are ok to use.

I might consider guaifenesin at some point. Not sure I want the stress right now ... I understand a person can feel pretty sick for the first few months, as toxins are released. One thing I noted in the FAQ's I linked to in this post ... I read the comment that no herb is known to heal the liver, and that is simply not true. Silymarin from Milk Thistle has been proven in double-blind, placebo controlled studies to effectively heal and regenerate liver tissue, including alcohol damage.

my 2¢

Doreen

Ka3n
Sat, Nov-10-01, 00:40
Doreen,
Thanks so much for the wonderful information. So complete! The site has lots of resources, too. What a find.
Salicylates ... yes, they do inhibit the effectiveness of the guai. And not just aspirin, as you know /QUOTE] LOL! (shaking head) After reading this, I realise that I use all natural products, which contain sals. I spend a fortune on them to avoid chemicals because I like things natural (I feel better). It appears that most everything that I currently use in my home and in my treatments contain Sals. I'm as Sals saturated as they come! :) Thanks so much for your research, Doreen. I've saved it in case I can pass it along to others who might not be as into plants (& sals). I'm not ready to start using chemicals again. [QUOTE]Until recently, the only form of OTC guai that I knew of was cough syrup. It's not available in Canada as a tablet at all, not even by prescription. Some pharmacies carry generic expectorant with just guai (hard to find without the dextromethorphan or some decongestant/antihistamine) .. and I actually have seen sugar-free, although it has sorbitol, a sugar alcohol with lovely laxative effects, especially at the required dose, which I think is something like 600mg or more per day.
I found the same to be true in the US. I called and it's available at compounding pharmacies with an MD's prescription. BTW, The dose is 600mg bid.
Thanks again, you're a peach to share and to find all that data. :bhug: I hope that your FM isn't keeping you from enjoying your walks too much. The place where you walk sounds beautiful, the way you talked about the light in the afternoon... Amazing how most people aren't aware of the amount of effort and the pain that you go through just to do that. I admire your determination and your courage.

shellyfell
Sun, Jan-27-02, 18:48
:hyper: This is so much good stuff.........THANK YOU, THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........Shelly............

HeatherMom
Wed, Dec-11-02, 21:17
Please Help!!! I got into this because my daughter has lost 60 pounds and posts on her own forum as hjackson. However, I have been doing this LC WOL since Nov 1st and with the exception of Thanksgiving, I have not cheated at all! Not one M&M, not one french fry. On Thanksgiving I did eat a measured 1/4 cup of mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, harvard beets, and stuffing. My mom made my two favorite pies and I had a sliver no bigger than 1 inch wide of both pumpkin and cheese pie, although later I did eat my husband's pie when he didn't want them. I have yet to break 10 lb. loss although I'm close. Is it my meds, my lack of exercise, an extremely resistant metabolism, what? Can anyone give me any advice, any clues, meds that have worked for them that my Dr. may consider a switch? I take 5mg Valium, 1 a day at bedtime as a muscle relaxant; 0.5mg Clonazapam, 1 a day at bedtime to help me focus through the fibro fog; 75mg amytriptyline at bedtime for sleep; 50mg Vioxx 1 at bedtime for pain; 75mg Effexor XL 1 at bedtime to ward off migraines; 75mg attenol for POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome). I take them at bedtime to reduce any drowsy side effects and so I remember to take them. I also take Imatrex 50mg when I have a migraine, Tylenol #3 when the pain is bad, and 1000mg of Motrin every four hours for pain control during the day. Has anybody had any experience with any of these meds? What about an exercise regiment that won't make me comatose the next day. Any Help would be welcomed.Thanks!

martha 1
Fri, Dec-13-02, 10:08
Dear Heather,
I too am new at this and I am not loosing. I did start entering my food at fitday
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Index.html
helps stay on track and a valuable tool.
I do not have any experience with meds, but will sugest if you feel better LCing stick it out. My energy has begun to soar. Hubby says if I had wings I would fly.
A day at a time.
hugs Martha

HeatherMom
Fri, Dec-13-02, 14:39
Thanks Martha for the encouragement. I'm not giving up, I just need to know if there are any adjustments that I could make that would make the going a little faster. I'm not greedy. I'd love to wake up and magically be slim but then I wouldn't appreciate all the effort put into getting it off; however even the experts say that two pounds aweek is not out of the ordinary. So, dear diet fairy can we please speed up to two pounds a week, without a back to the beginning weight gain during my cycle? I don't believe in a diet fairy, and God is in control, and I can control my eating. By the way my user name is HeatherMom, because I usually post on hjackson's LC site and wanted everyone to know I'm her mom and I'm so proud of her, but my name is Laurie! Thanks for the link I'll use it and pass it on.

martha 1
Fri, Dec-13-02, 15:34
Hey Laurie,
It is so nice to meet you. I would love sitting with you and sharing a cup of decaf. I am all prepared with my holiday decorations and am on high gear. I spent the afternoon with my wonderful daughter, age 38 who not only is going through menopause, but was also diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. She is grieving heavily, but trying to move forward to acceptance. There is no rheumatoid arthritis in the family and I am stumped. well any way after she had a good cry this morning we took off to a wonderful fancy restaurant. We were seated in a very private area with a small table and two oversized leather chairs. We sank in and were each so happy. Comfort is so important when your body is in so much pain.
My lunch was delicious and I stayed legal once again. Where this focus is coming from is beside me. I have at least 8 doz Christmas cookies through out my home and I am not tempted, PLEASE!!!!!
I am trying to check out how to increase my foods and stay low carb. I have my son and daughter in law coming for supper. Table is set perfectly and food is in preparation. I made my white chocolate mouse for dessert. The kids can indulge in the sugarplums. I have French vanilla coffee waiting to be plugged in, cranberry muffins defrosting. I made them the other day and wrapped individual for quick defrost for company. I am on a roll. This energy is a gift from God. No weight loss, YIKES!!!!!!
Talk again soon please.
hugs Martha

jan857
Fri, Jan-03-03, 09:57
I'm new to LCing - tho I did it naturally about 15-10years ago and felt great and was thin -- And want to say that my FMS and MS symptoms are much less eating more protein and fats and so few carbs. And my "mild Sjogren's Syndrome" has lightened up so drastically -- still need eyedrops but I do actually have tears, and saliva! Kind of wonderful. I'm struggling with the no sweets in the evenings, and raw leafy food messes things up, but I feel so much better and really makes me wonder how much of my illnesses is due to my (wrong) diet!

martha 1
Fri, Jan-03-03, 12:32
Hi Jan,
Welcome!
I am new to LCing as well. I did do no flour, no sugar and no caffeine for 15 years, years ago. I had a slimmer body and definitely a life. I believe for me no flour and no sugar are key to feeling better. I had my LCing down and managed 8 weeks just before Christmas. The sugarplums got to me and I am beginning again today. I did not manage to loose weight and I was getting discouraged. I should have kept on my plan and not listened to those who said I needed to eat more. I feel just too many well-intentioned suggestions.
I am managing today and feel just maybe I can still do this. The first few days are the hardest.
Oprah had a good show on yesterday. If you access her web site she has a lot of great suggestions on how to get better. One of her best secrets she found was not to eat three hours before bed. She claims that when you feel hungry at night it is your body using fat stores. So if you could replace the urge to eat at night with thoughts of food urges not acted on will decrease those love handles and thick thighs, it just might help us get over that night time march to the kitchen.
hugs Martha

Starmaker
Thu, May-08-03, 11:23
I thought I would shed some light on Low Carb for the lady who seems to be having a problem with weight loss. First off, just cutting out a wee bit of this and that won't do it for you. You really NEED to pick up Atkins book and read it through. Only then will you fully comprehend what it is all about.

Induction is in place for a reason, to rid your bod of the garbage it has accumulated, and to break your addictions (sugar coffee etc)

You say "oh I just had a bite of this and that", but what you are really doing is backsliding. There is no halfway with Low Carb, you WILL continue to crave unless you rid yourself properly of those evil things (sugar, starches, high carb veggies and fruit, coffee, sodas, anything with aspartame, flours, breads)

Splenda is at least a derivitive of sugar and tastes VERY similar to sugar. Stevia is another natural sweetener with no carbs. I prefer Splenda to Stevia but everyone is different.

Do it properly...no cheats.....no reasoning with yourself that one piece of pie is ok! Its NOT! Low Carb is NOT a diet, its a way of life and should be accepted as such. You WILL be successful, as long as you quit fighting it.

martha 1
Thu, May-08-03, 15:44
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa090897.htm

please check this out

hugs Martha

valery1959
Wed, Jun-11-03, 19:50
Can you tell me how long it took before the hypoglycemia, started to get better, I have just been diagnosed with it, and been on the diet the better part of 7 weeks, but still have bad mornings, evenings seem to be better, yesterday was a great day in comparison to others. I dont know a soul with this disorder and could really use as much info as possible, I live in Calgary, and dont even know of a dr who treats it here... V

smurf
Fri, Jun-13-03, 15:06
hi laurie
I have mctd(mixed connective tissue disease: lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and fibromyalgia) i have also been on ALOT of medications because I suffer from recurrent and prolonged migraines, chronic pain from the rheuma and sleeplessness from the fibro. I was on a amptrytiline(sp?) and it caused a major weight gain. My doctor said that many time SSRIs can slow down weight loss or even cause it , also he said that many times pain medication also can have a slowing effect. My doc told me that I needed to lose weight back in November, I went on the low fat, low cal diet and it did very little, I was convinced that I would not lose any, it has been only with Atkins that I have been able to lose! Plus it has helped with the firbro pain and sleeplessness. Do not despair... Good luck :)

Doitnow
Wed, Jun-25-03, 20:58
This is great information. I never realized fibromylagia was result of dysfunctional metabolism. Thanks for the info.

Grrl
Tue, Jul-15-03, 14:07
Wow. This is incredible information...thanks Doreen! I'm 27 on a vegetarian diet (most of my life, although I eat eggs, dairy) and have had Rheumatoid Arthritis since I was 9 (dx 16) that seems to now be in remission, although I was just dx this year with Fibromyalgia. I also suffer from chronic depression and am on an SSRI. I have eaten a high-carb diet for years and am now realizing that this could be in part to blame for my health issues. Low-Carb here I come! Thank you so much for this info...it may just change my life. :)

mitchie
Mon, Feb-07-05, 10:55
I am so very happy this diet is working for you, I have been on the same for over a week now, problem is I feel more tired than ever and near tears all the time, don't know what I am doing wrong, starting to think I need the serotonin from carbs, any of you ladies have had this experience? I swear I WASN'T DEPRESSED BEFORE AND NOT NEARLY SO TIRED, JUST FATTER , ANY INPUT FROM YOU WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

quietone
Mon, Feb-07-05, 11:50
Yeah, unfortunately, I know how you feel.

Not much strong sun out this time of year either, which doesn't help with the moods.

It is why I can't do strict low carb anymore. It helps in every other way, but the moods. I get very tired, especially if I try to do something strenuous.

Some say it goes away if you give it time, but mine didn't. I remember feeling flat all the time. So, if you can't do a strict low carb, there are more modified versions to try.

Gailew
Mon, Feb-07-05, 16:01
An update on the info Doreen started this thread with. Miryam Williamson has writen a second book called Blood Sugar Blues. I had her first book for years but I don't need it now. I find the second book very useful.

RedheadPen
Sat, Feb-12-05, 07:59
I couldn't help but laugh when I read the first sentence in this post......"Many practitioners are recommending"

IMHO Finding practitioners that actually recognize FMS is a chore in itself. Then when you do find one have you ever heard the words "You just have to find what works for you and live with it"

Now, don't get me started on insurance plans and what your options are in finding an expert.

Here is what I know out of experience:
Eating the Atkins way of Life helps!