The Cult of Disgruntled Carnivores

[NoLogo]

Since I've already posted here before the standard, "You're posting in the correct area you stupid troll" greeting won't be necessary.

After reading a few posts it's quite interesting- from an anthropological view. The banners on a lot of users entries include "PETA" (spoofed). You can even win a "Meat not Wheat" mug. I suppose it finally 'proves' that I really am a Grade A moron. Not only is meat tasty it's been 'proven' to be the best diet imaginable. The mere thought that one would question Dr.Atkins to any degree is almost unthinkable. Why are studies even being conducted anymore? It's silly. We all know what they all will point to. I propose that Dr.Atkins be awarded posthumously the entire gamut of Nobel prizes for his commitment to the health of humanity.

Okay, well now that I've stopped acting like 50% of the members here, I'll continue. It is not surprising that this diet has become rather popular seeing as the animal rights movement has as well. It makes you sit back and realize the interconnectedness of so many trends.

[Built]

The Cult of Disgruntled Carnivores

I LIKE IT! I think I should put that on the front of my SIZE EXTRA-SMALL shorty T-SHIRT - the one that shows off my abs now that I have them!

Muahahahahahahaha!

[NoLogo]

It never ceases to amaze me that insightful posts have to be utterly ruined with people who think I've even remote interest in thier t-shirts. I'm beginning to believe that Windows has some special search command that highlights the least important part of a post. Does Atkins have a remedy for this?

[fatburner]

It never ceases to amaze me that insightful posts have to be utterly ruined with people who think I've even remote interest in thier t-shirts. I'm beginning to believe that Windows has some special search command that highlights the least important part of a post. Does Atkins have a remedy for this?


Hello Nologo,
I for one don't think you're a 'stupid troll'. But as trolls go, you're typically not particularly well informed about the science behind LowCarbing (Atkins or one of the many other variations). You don't even seem to know what low carbing really is, judging by the 'disgruntled carnivore' line of your most recent post. So you are a bit ignorant, but that's hardly unusual. There's a lot of misinformation about LowCarbing out there. I actually eat less meat now that I'm Lowcarbing than when I was following the 'food pyramid' recommendations for complex carbohydrates. In fact I eat a lot less food, meat included. That's because I'm no longer ravenously hungry all the time. Why would I be a disgruntled carnivore? I'm actually still an omnivore, and for what it's worth a much more 'gruntled' one than I was when a carb heavy diet had made me moderately and permanently unhealthy.
I get the impression that you are either a fairly bitter person, or so without a life that you enjoy trolling a subject that you know nothing about. Both possibilities deserve our compassion. You've certainly got mine. In fact I'm even a bit fascinated that somebody could be so perverse. Ah, human nature. Sigh!
Even your earlier thread was more worthwhile than this. At least then you seemed to have some interesting ideas. Now that so many people have corrected the gaps in your knowledge, you've resorted to completely empty sarcasm.
Btw have you had time to read some of the reading material I recommended? Rosedale particularly is very easy to understand, even if you come to the subject with some bias. Not that I'm necessarily accusing you of bias, you understand.... You know I was pretty negative about lowcarbing too when I first started doing some reading. They couldn't have got it so wrong for so long, could they?.....could they?......

Read Nologo, do it now!

[Lisa N]

I'm beginning to believe that Windows has some special search command that highlights the least important part of a post.

So....which part of your post would you like us to focus on? The part that tries to draw a correlation between the increase in popularity of low carb eating and the animal rights movement?
Do you have any documentation (charts showing an increase in the animal rights movement as compared to the rise in popularity of low carb, for instance) and if so, where did the information come from and which came first?
Please realize correlation does not prove causation. :idea:

As for being a disgruntled carnivore...nope. I'm really more of an inquisitive omnivore. ;)

[Quinadal]

Who has a banner spoofing PETA?

[jadefox26]

LOL I have no idea what PETA is....and for that matter care less to find out, but that makes me even more moronic than you I guess nologo.
I do have to wonder about your sanity....I mean, why on earth come on to a board full of LC adicts to then slate things you obviously know little or nothing about?
Strikes me you are looking for some friends - but you aint gonna find any here!!

[dreamnfae]

Quote: "Who has a banner spoofing PETA?"


HA!! How hilarious!! I nearly spewed my full fat decaf sugar free latte all over my monitor!

[Kristine]

I have the Eat Meat Not Wheat lunchbox, and I can't carry it around because people glance at it, and without looking more closely, assume I'm a vegan. :eek:

So was there any point to your post, other than to have a good pout? Losing an argument in another thread? (Edit) I've gone back to check out your other posts. Yes, this is the War Zone, but it's here for debate, not pointless taunting and complaining. Either bring us some studies or other specific information to debate, or quit trolling.

[Samasnier]

Did you know, NoLogo, that any LC diet can be followed as a vegetarian?

[lpioch]

I have been wondering NoLogo's motivations in posting on this site (not to mention how much time he must have on his hands).

Does he think that some of us will go "Oh! Gosh! What AM I doing? I'm going back to a no-fat diet!"
Yeah... Right. Most of us feel a thousand times better on this diet...and many of us (although I admit not all) have THOROUGHLY researched this before deciding to "jump on the bandwagon" so to speak.

Now, the thing about time...HOW MUCH TIME DOES THIS GUY HAVE ON HIS HANDS?!?

Seriously!

Yes, I spend some time on this site, but it's for motivational purposes. I'd REALLY have to be bored or with nothing to do to then go to a lowfat forum and start posting negatively there?!!!!!?

Of course, I'm sure he'll come up with some suave (yeah right) retort to my comment. But really...what's the purpose? And I know his time is his time...so be it. What a waste!
-- Loretta

[adkpam]

Perhaps the motto is:

"I annoy, therefore I am."

[Nancy LC]

It's Quixotic! The guys tilting at windmills. I'm as likely to preach low carb on a Vegan message forum as I am to run naked onto the freeway at rush hour. I just don't like to inflict that sort of abuse on myself.

However, the name "Cult of Disgruntled Carnivores" is kind of clever. :p

[sugarjunky]

It never ceases to amaze me that insightful posts have to be utterly ruined with people who think I've even remote interest in thier t-shirts. I'm beginning to believe that Windows has some special search command that highlights the least important part of a post. Does Atkins have a remedy for this?

Well, when the title of your thread is flame bait, what do you expect? :rolleyes:

[lpioch]

Actually, at first glance, I thought it was a spoof of the CDC center for disease control.
See what happens when you just scan?
:-)

-- Loretta

[steveed]

Ummm...Sarcasm is NOT insight, it's angst.

[Lisa N]

Just a reminder, folks: Even though this is the War Zone, the forum rules regarding flames and insults still apply.
Debate is wonderful, but please keep it respectful. :)

[mio1996]

Nologo, I hope you find the truth before it is too late for you. When I first heard about lc years ago, I thought it was rubbish. Now, I have accepted the truth and found better health than I have ever known, and so have a very many people on this forum. Stay around, please. As long as you are trolling around here, there is some chance you will realize we are right and you don't have to grow old with diabetes and get a life threatening infection every time you stub your toe. Maybe you will join us and stop the plaque in your arteries from building to deadly levels. Your life is at stake here, so stick around and learn the joys of eating copius portions of tasty food while getting healthier all the time. I won't flame you, friend. You remind me of how ignorant I once was. Ignorance is bliss, but bliss can be dangerous.

If you are so sure you know what is going on, won't you post some menus so we can see where we are going wrong? Maybe what we need is some sugary cereal or white bread, or a pop-tart. Share your health secrets with us!

Sincerely

MIO

[mio1996]

Embrace the troll and maybe he will go get a life!

:D

[NoLogo]

LOL I have no idea what PETA is....

Yeah, that is pretty funny.

Strikes me you are looking for some friends - but you aint gonna find any here!!

Yes, my favorite way to make friends is to insult them.

HA!! How hilarious!! I nearly spewed my full fat decaf sugar free latte all over my monitor!

HA! You have no idea what chemical decaffeinates something!

Losing an argument in another thread? (Edit)

Yep, the closing arguments on the last thread were so impressive I simply couldn't compete with such unfettered brilliance.

I have been wondering NoLogo's motivations in posting on this site (not to mention how much time he must have on his hands).

I admit it, it's to make friends. 680 posts. You go girl!

"I annoy, therefore I am."

Or perhaps Descartes himself in, "I doubt therefore I am".

Ummm...Sarcasm is NOT insight, it's angst.

This should be posted on all warzone threads as it applies to everyone.

[ItsTheWooo]

Since I've already posted here before the standard, "You're posting in the correct area you stupid troll" greeting won't be necessary.

After reading a few posts it's quite interesting- from an anthropological view. The banners on a lot of users entries include "PETA" (spoofed). You can even win a "Meat not Wheat" mug. I suppose it finally 'proves' that I really am a Grade A moron. Not only is meat tasty it's been 'proven' to be the best diet imaginable. The mere thought that one would question Dr.Atkins to any degree is almost unthinkable. Why are studies even being conducted anymore? It's silly. We all know what they all will point to. I propose that Dr.Atkins be awarded posthumously the entire gamut of Nobel prizes for his commitment to the health of humanity.

Okay, well now that I've stopped acting like 50% of the members here, I'll continue. It is not surprising that this diet has become rather popular seeing as the animal rights movement has as well. It makes you sit back and realize the interconnectedness of so many trends.

I for one thrive on debate. As most of those who have read my posts know, I'm very verbal and very detailed. I love to argue points, examine all sides of a thing, and to determine which option is the better or more beneficial of two. At times I'll even debate myself. I've literally sat down before and wrote up lengthy positions arguing in favor of an issue I ultimately disagree with... just for "fun". Call me a libra (happy birthday to me :) ).

With that said, I have absolutely no qualms about engaging another person in reasoned debate. There are many other posters on this forum who, like myself, enjoy engaging others, challenging beliefs, examining different points of view.... in a rational, productive manner.

Unfortunately, most of those who visit our site to "challenge" us actually scribble a two sentence, emotionally charged, unintelligible, unresearched blurb such as the following:

"I'm glad that health canada has decided to ban low carb advertisement. [OP is being passive-aggressive, there is no value to this opening statement other than to inflame and annoy]
One thing its easy to find in our society is ignorance. [OP is implying we are ignorant trend-jumpers] Sure maybe its hard to manipulate your weight but most low carb diets advocate high fat levels which in turn hurt your heart. [OP did not bother to research the founding principles of LC and address them, mainly that we feel total fat and saturated fat is not a threat to cardiac health. Poster did not attempt to challenge our beliefs, merely took the irrational position that he/they are right and we are obviously wrong. If OP doesn't know much about LC (in that we believe natural fats are not health-damaging), how can he possibly challenge it?] Many people hear post that canada is crazy but never stopped to think that they can still make low carb food but now they cant use bad advertising tactics to lure in over people who don't think to study something and do it properly. [The only valid point made so far, at least OP here shows he actually thought about the issue and has a reason to believe what he does; he is not just making a knee-jerk emotionally charged unreasoned statement just to watch us all get in a tizzy (aka "troll")]

Bottom line is people can do whatever they want this ban just forces people to know what their getting themselves into.

Real weight loss isn't about the amount of carbs its about calorie reduction calories in - calories out = weight loss/gain so lift weights excercise and cut saturated and trans fats to lose weight.

P.S. Carbs and Protein = 4.5 calories per gram Fat = 9 calories per gram."
[OP makes a statement, one that is considered controversial on this board... yet he does not attempt to back it up with any supporting evidence what so ever. "I believe this and so do they so it must be right and you must be wrong". If you want to debate, do it. Saying "my way is right just because" doesn't count as satisfactory supporting evidence. Show me why eating carbs is just as good as eating fat, provide evidence that my perception of hunger, my metabolism, and my sense of well being is the same on any diet. Offer a theory why people think they feel and do better on low carb diets. Come on man... if you want to challenge us, do it! Otherwise you're just a boring troll]

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=211501


That's just one recent example. Worst part, the example I gave is relatively mild offense compared to others.

Because of the high influx of "anti-LC trolls" (both on the board and in real life), many of us are shall we say, a wee bit defensive and emotionally charged about this. There is almost a religious/cultural-like devotion to LC, because there is very real anti-LC persecution out there. You yourself are an example of that.

As I said before, our forum has dozens of members who enjoy examining the more technical side of the diet, and dozens more who enjoy debating our way of eating with skeptics. So far you have not shown yourself to be a willing participant of debate. You've been more often than not condescending, insulting, and your positions poorly researched, poorly supported via evidence (studies) and/or explanations (summaries of studies not cited).

If we all seem "defensive" and "emotional" and cult-like, it's only because of individuals like yourself.

[sugarjunky]

ItsTheWoo, you rock. http://fornits.com/wwf/images/smiles/icon_nworthy.gif http://fornits.com/wwf/images/smiles/icon_nworthy.gif http://fornits.com/wwf/images/smiles/icon_nworthy.gif<----pretty cult-like, don'tcha think? :lol:

[mio1996]

Go get 'em, Wooo!

[NoLogo]

Woo, I do think you're one of the most sensible (in a number of ways) users of this board. That said, it's almost as though 10 people can make useless/irrational posts and everything's okay as long as you post at the end with sensible thoughts. I'm certainly not saying that all my entries have been stellar or even useful but ultimately I'm /trying/ to say something. I'm not posting my t-shirt size or the state of my overflowing coffee as though it really holds any relevance to anything. I didn't wake up a week ago fueled by a desire to infiltrate lc boards with my particular brand of debate. It's almost as though all objections can be wished away with a combination of sarcasm and troll accusations, which then culminate into a periodic intervention explaining why people make said comments. I realize that this diet can be profoundly important to people, but my opinions are important as well. And I think the many other areas of this site provide enough opportunity for support and congratulations among lc'ers. I wouldn't post on them with anything controversial. That said, people are welcome to visit 'enter diet here's respective 'warzone' ( if 'enter diet here' is progressive enough to even include a warzone )People do have the option to upload their thumbnails and stats as they appear at the top of every post. I do not need reminders of these. I'd like to know the arbitrary # of times I can post without being a 'LOL...troll'. And honestly, I think I've made a lot of arguments whether they're ultimately flawed or not. Linking articles is not the greatest way of arguing something because it takes time to ensure that it is not from a biased source (i.e Peta.com, Atkins and affiliates).I think I've been a 'worthy' participant of these threads. And yeah, the protein vs. fat caloric content was something most of us knew a long time ago.

[bluesmoke]

Actually, NoLogo, what you have done is spewed any number of uninformed opinions with no backing of fact or substance. Any 2 year old child can have opinions, that is not an accomplishment.
You have contributed exactly nothing to the discussion except providing the usual amusement we get from your brand of troll. You are hardly unique in your need to call attention to yourself. Nyah Levi

[VickySail]

Gee, it's been awhile since I read a post with so much to respond to. Well, here goes:

Woo, I do think you're one of the most sensible (in a number of ways) users of this board.
We're proud of her too. :lol:

That said, it's almost as though 10 people can make useless/irrational posts and everything's okay as long as you post at the end with sensible thoughts.
When you start with a useless/irrational post, try not to be surprised when you're responded to on the same level.


I'm certainly not saying that all my entries have been stellar or even useful but ultimately I'm /trying/ to say something.
Have I missed the ultimate point here, then? I don't seem to have found your message yet.

I'm not posting my t-shirt size or the state of my overflowing coffee as though it really holds any relevance to anything.
It's called sardonic humor. It's what we do when someone comes to a pro-LC board and challenges our lifestyles yet again with an anti-LC message.

I didn't wake up a week ago fueled by a desire to infiltrate lc boards with my particular brand of debate.
Then why, when you must have known how you would be recieved?

It's almost as though all objections can be wished away with a combination of sarcasm and troll accusations, which then culminate into a periodic intervention explaining why people make said comments.
You have yet to make a valid objection. And, I don't believe anyone here has a need to justify/explain themselves to you. You're more of an anomaly that is considered, discussed, and rebuked. Not necessarily in that order.


I realize that this diet can be profoundly important to people, but my opinions are important as well.
No one's arguing that point. Make sure you clarify they are opinions, not fact.

And I think the many other areas of this site provide enough opportunity for support and congratulations among lc'ers. I wouldn't post on them with anything controversial. That said, people are welcome to visit 'enter diet here's respective 'warzone' ( if 'enter diet here' is progressive enough to even include a warzone )
So, if we build it, they will come? The justification for your posting is because a war zone is here for your entertainment purposes?

People do have the option to upload their thumbnails and stats as they appear at the top of every post. I do not need reminders of these.
It's a feature of the forum, so you should probably mock the programmers. Many choose not to use it. Many choose to use it as a badge of honor, and others for personal reaffirmation, and others to just keep track. The reasons are myriad.

I'd like to know the arbitrary # of times I can post without being a 'LOL...troll'.
That depends on when you make a positive contribution to this forum, but you already know this. This statement is designed to be inflammatory, ie: trollish.

And honestly, I think I've made a lot of arguments whether they're ultimately flawed or not.
No arguments. Just insults and arbitrary statements again, designed to be inflammatory. Flawed has nothing to do with it. You have no respect for our chosen eating habits, and it literally oozes from every post.

Linking articles is not the greatest way of arguing something because it takes time to ensure that it is not from a biased source (i.e Peta.com, Atkins and affiliates).
Do you think the arguments against eating LC are not from biased sources? It's presented, and you take the time to decide whether it is worthy.

I think I've been a 'worthy' participant of these threads.
12 posts does not make you worthy. And THESE 12 posts do not make you a participant.

And yeah, the protein vs. fat caloric content was something most of us knew a long time ago.
Another gem of knowledge we all need to ponder.

Vicky

[toofattoo]

Nologo, if you have just come to mock us, don't bother. We can choose how we want to eat and we know all the other ways of eating out there. You are not telling us anything that we don't already know. Why are you hiding your stats? At least most of us here are honest about our weight and we try to give each other support. We do not judge others, we give encouragement. I think you are in the wrong house. Peg

[Hellistile]

NoLogo:

I am 54 years old and eating history is as follows:

1. Traditional Diet - raw milk, fermented dairy, unprocessed, blood sausage, meat, potatoes, no white starchy foods, hardly any sugars, rye bread, lard, butter, cheese, beets, cabbage
2. Teenager Diet - I ate whatever I wanted whenever I wanted it.
3. Very low fat diet, almost vegetarian - used hardly any fats, skim milk, vegetable soups, salads, hardly any meat
4. Low carb Diet - meat, fish, eggs, green veggies, nuts, seeds, coconut oil, olive oil, saturated fat.

Since I have experienced all these eating plans, I feel qualified to make comparisons. The traditonal diet and the low-carb diet are the ones that makes me feel the best. Nowadays, the traditional diet is impossible because i cannot get raw milk, free range beef, free range chicken eggs, grass fed dairy butter, and unprocessed foods. Low-carbing therefore is what works for me now and eliminates many of my "old age" medical problems such as migraines, arthritis, depression and gives me energy that reminds me of being a teenager again.

Therefore, whatever you say here on this board is meaningless to me. You will never convince me and most other people here with your opinions, because that's all they are - just your opinions - because you haven't "lived them" yet. Besides, most of your opinions are almost laughable because most of us here have done a lot of research into our way of eating and continue to do so.

[Kristine]

NoLogo, you still don't get it.

The War Zone forum was created because this board is a support forum. This area was created so that those who are here for support wouldn't have to sift through the same old debates and borderline flame wars that are so tiring to us.

I will repeat my point, since you casually chose to ignore it the first time I said it: if you're going to debate here, then post some facts supported by some documentation and we'll happily debate them with you. Your first post was civil. You received some good responses. After that, you have posted nothing but troll bait. I'll spell out the difference for you:

Debate = questions, facts, figures, supporting evidence
Troll bait = thinly-veiled sarcasm, posted solely for the purpose of getting a rise out of the audience.

If you're just here for a pissing contest, bugger off.

[Lisa N]

I'm with Wooo...if you want to debate, bring it on. But it's pointless to debate opinion (which is pretty much all you've presented thus far). Let's debate the supposed facts that those opinions are based on and we might get somewhere.
In case you missed it when you first started posting in the War Zone, I'll direct you to the sticky at the top of this forum titled: "The War Zone. Please read before posting here." and to this part in particular:

members are encouraged to provide references to research and medical studies. Do not be offended if someone asks you for proof to what you claim is a fact.

If all you're going to present us with is opinions and sarcasm with nothing but opinion pieces to back it up, the responses are fairly quickly going to be reduced to the sound of crickets chirping. ;)

[NoLogo]

It's incredible that you can still consider yourself 'supportive'. I'm not condemning this diet based on ethical convictions. I don't even think I really oppose it anymore. I think I oppose the users of this 'supportive' website whose preconceived notions eradicate everything. I don't know what you would do if you ran out of emoticons. Sure, it's fun to collectively laugh at the trolls' posts, but it then becomes fun for me when I get to see the oscillation between sarcasm, and 'victim of sarcasm'. I've surfed the other threads and many responses are needlessly rude with half of them stemming from the 'supportive' crowd. It seems to be a mutual affliction. I have my set of studies and you have yours-and comparing them would result in little agreement. I really don't mean this as a copout. Evolutionary talk is nice, but I can't seem to generate more than a few odd looks. I'm not going to pretend I have a background in biochemistry- at least not enough to debate it without depending entirely on Atkins. I could lace my post with 'ketone this ketone that' but the structure of compounds is simply not my specialty. Considering your own lifestyle as the lifestyle is dangerous thinking and this is what irritates a lot of people. The idea that you don't eat bagels is really of little importance to me.

[rloveman]

Well, THERE'S the problem. I think most of us assume we're here to support other low-carbers, as well as the concept of low-carbing. Apparently you believe by "support" we mean we're here to support people who come to argue with us for no apparent reason.

[Lisa N]

It's incredible that you can still consider yourself 'supportive'. I'm not condemning this diet based on ethical convictions. I don't even think I really oppose it anymore. I think I oppose the users of this 'supportive' website whose preconceived notions eradicate everything.


NoLogo, let me once again direct you to the sticky at the top of this Forum titled: "The War Zone. Please read before posting here." and to this part in particular:

This War Zone forum was created to provide a place for opponents of low-carbing to debate the merits of this lifestyle and diet.

and to what it says at the top of this board:

Atkins Diet & Low Carbohydrate
Weight-Loss Support

I'm not sure what type of support you're here looking for, but this board doesn't seem to be what you need. The War Zone was created as a place for anti-low carb debate and the board in general is for the support of Atkins Dieters and Low Carbers in general, not as a place to support anyone who wants attention for whatever reason they may have.
So...if you want to debate the merits of low carbing from a scientific perspective, wonderful. If you want to begin a low carb program and find information and support in doing so, great. The latter is our primary reason for being here.
However, if you just want to pout because you waded into deep water without your flippers on, you're on your own and I'd suggest you find a board more suited to your needs.

[kyrasdad]

Considering your own lifestyle as the lifestyle is dangerous thinking and this is what irritates a lot of people. The idea that you don't eat bagels is really of little importance to me.

I consider it the lifestyle for me. I don't particularly care what others do or don't do or eat or don't eat. I'm still amazed, though, that a diet consisting of meat, cheese, vegetables can somehow be considered controversial. Why is eliminating (reducing, actually) sugar and grains so scary, other than to the for-profit companies who thrive on that stuff?

[tagcaver]

I'm not condemning this diet based on ethical convictions. I don't even think I really oppose it anymore.
So if you opposed this way of eating at first, did you only join this board to debate? If so, use facts and studies to back up your opinion.

I think I oppose the users of this 'supportive' website whose preconceived notions eradicate everything.
If you oppose the users, then why join?

II've surfed the other threads and many responses are needlessly rude with half of them stemming from the 'supportive' crowd.

Which other threads? What specific responses? How do you know for sure that someone who posts is from the "supportive" crowd - did they tell you? Again, you're posting without data to back up your statements. Give us an example. Post a link to what you're referring to.

[Samasnier]

I have my set of studies and you have yours-and comparing them would result in little agreement.
You have studies to back up your opinions?! Why is this the first we've heard of it? Feel free to post those studies, we're still waiting for something that explains your anti-LC position other than reactionary uninformed opinion like "low carb is scary!" :lol:

[Lisa N]

we're still waiting for something that explains your anti-LC position other than reactionary uninformed opinion like "low carb is scary!"

Well...it's human nature to fear what we don't understand. ;)

[Kristine]

I'm not going to pretend I have a background in biochemistry- at least not enough to debate it without depending entirely on Atkins. I could lace my post with 'ketone this ketone that' but the structure of compounds is simply not my specialty.(...)

Then you're here why, exactly?

Considering your own lifestyle as the lifestyle is dangerous thinking and this is what irritates a lot of people.The idea that you don't eat bagels is really of little importance to me.

Gee, that was a contradiction if I ever heard one... why do our opinions irritate you if you don't care what we eat?

[eve25]

Considering your own lifestyle as the lifestyle is dangerous thinking

uhhhh....what????? was that supposed to make sense??
if (after much research and actually feeling the benefits of this lifestyle after a whole year) if, after all that, i DIDNT consider it THE lifestyle, then i'd be an idiot for still doing it!

[VickySail]

This poster has been reduced to petulant whining.
I love the part where he wants support.

And just to annoy you further: :) :idea: :idea: :agree: :agree: :thup: :thup: :help: :help: :o :o :q: :q: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :nono: :nono: :angel: :angel: :hyper: :hyper: :spin: :spin: :daze: :daze: :rheart: :rheart: :( :( :read: :read: :Party: :Party: :wiggle: :wiggle: :cool: :cool: :lol: :lol: :p :p ;) ;) :D :D :wave: :wave: :yum: :yum: :exclm: :exclm: :yay: :yay: :roll: :roll: :thdown: :thdown: :confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :there: :there: :mad: :mad: :bhug: :bhug: :cry: :cry:

I'm done wit' DIS guy.

[pepperlg]

Maybe the lack of carbs has brained my damage, but I have no idea what nologo is going on about.

[CindySue48]

VickySail: LOL

[NoLogo]

It's difficult to respond to 10 messages when they all differ in terms of approach. Points for having an eclectic member list though ( and one particularly special member who's ears perk up when 'emoticon' is written ). I encourage everyone to stop responding to me. Please

[mio1996]

It's difficult to respond to 10 messages when they all differ in terms of approach. Points for having an eclectic member list though ( and one particularly special member who's ears perk up when 'emoticon' is written ). I encourage everyone to stop responding to me. Please

I encourage you to stop posting garbage.

And in defense of our dear friend Vicky,

:) :cool: :idea: :lol: :agree: :p :thup: ;) :help: :D :o :wave: :q: :yum: :rolleyes: :exclm: :nono: :yay: :angel: :roll: :hyper: :thdown: :spin: :confused: :daze: :eek: :rheart: :there: :( :mad: :read: :bhug: :Party: :cry: :wiggle: :sunny: :devil: :bash: :baby: :doah: :bday: :heart: :daizy: :cheer: :stop: :rose: :dazzle: :read2: :tears: :yawn: :blush: :clap: :skull:

And the most fitting emoticon of all is just for you, NoLogo :Puke:

[bluesmoke]

Well, since you haven't actually responded to any of the responses to any of your posts in any way with anything useful or informative, your being overwhelmed by the task of responding to the latest is hardly surprising. Nyah Levi

[rloveman]

We're supposed to all take the same approach? Last I checked, we were individuals. And independent thinkers, for the most part.

And you COULD just give up trying to goad us, and stop reading the responses, if they bother you so much.

[NoLogo]

I know I haven't posted references to any studies. I know I haven't posted anything more than theory. I know I've irritated a lot of you. When I received responses to my posts I'd obviously look at all of them. I'd read the first 2 or so and they were good posts. They asked for references and they made a few good suggestions. But any inclination towards replying in a respectful and articulate manner was erased when I'd scroll down further to sarcastic and useless posts. I'm certainly not saying that everyone else was to blame - I contributed to the atmosphere too, but there were just as many disrespectful comments from lc'ers as from me. And that's fine as long as you don't infer that I acted alone. It is a bit discouraging to have credible responses interspersed with nonsense. And I do think that viewing a particular lifestyle , whatever it may consist of, as the true path for everyone is dangerous. Especially by default. I also think of how certain ethnic groups are at higher risk for certain disorders and how climate also influences genetics. Essentially planet Earth is incredibly diverse and I don't think that creating a mould for everyone on it to follow is appropriate. I've studied about 20 diets from Ayurveda to Macrobiotics to Low-Carb and they all have benefits or at least strong evidence of such, be it IBS, hepatitis, diabetes, memory loss etc. Anyway, although our general distaste for each other is undisputed I didn't plan for it to go this poorly. Take care.

[tom sawyer]

Post 1 was nonsense. In it you equated lc with carnivory, incorrectly. Then you built on that falsehood, by equating lc with the fanatically religious nature of veganism and the PETA philosophy (which is even somewhat unfair to those ways of life). You did so in a sarcastic manner, and one that was useless to me.

Sarcasm and uselessness, begets the same.

I'll give you one thing, you are persistent. If you ever come up with something worth debating, it might be fun.

[nets33]

And I do think that viewing a particular lifestyle , whatever it may consist of, as the true path for everyone is dangerous. Especially by default. NoLogo...

I don't think I've ever told anyone that my WOL was the only way of life. The reality is that people find the best diet and exercise regime that works with their body chemisty and body type.

But... this is a Low-Carb forum. Where we come to discuss how this WOL is working for us and to ask for support when we stumble. I would never assume that LC eating would work for everone. In fact I would agree that it just might not!

Many of us believe in the LC lifestyle and are enthusiastic to tell others about it. We also hear from those who are unfamiliar with this WOL how "bad" and how "unhealthy" it is.... To each their own. When I started doing research on LC I was surprised to see that most of the food is whole foods, healthy foods... I had little problem giving up the white bread, sugar and, yes, bagels.

K

[Kristine]

And I do think that viewing a particular lifestyle , whatever it may consist of, as the true path for everyone is dangerous.

Well, if you would have checked the poll in the thread a few lines down, you'd see that less than half of us feel that way. Read the responses and you'll see the range of opinions. Even those of us who believe this WOE is best for anyone; how is that dangerous? We're not campaigning to take your sugar and potatoes away from you.

[tom sawyer]

Kristine, you saying you don't advocate taking candy from a baby?

[eve25]

nologo, your first post is about 90% sarcasm, which is quite unfair seeing as you STARTED the thread. you werent RESPONDING to anything!! then, to further insult, you claim that THAT is what "50% of the members here" do. hmmm??? i'm hardpressed to remember any "true" member here starting a thread full of sarcastic and unnecessary comments. please point me to a few. surely that wont be hard as a full "50%" of our member have started threads like that. thanks i'll wait.........

there were just as many disrespectful comments from lc'ers as from me

and as far as that quote goes....imagine this. you go to a dog park where, obviously, a lot of people are playing with their dogs. now most of these people probably love their dogs, i mean, after all, they came all the way to the dog PARK! and sure there are even a few dog fanatics with their hats and t-shirts and their 12 dogs. and you go there and walk around a bit and then start sarcastically saying that, "heh, dogs are sooo ooo ooo great arent they. oh dogs must be soooooo much better than cats right???? oh look at that lunch box saying "dogs not cats." dogs are the best pet right???" well, do you really expect to not get ANY negative comments back???? do you expect NO sarcasm in response to yours?????? maybe you think some comments are "disrespectful" but how would YOU respond to your own comments?????

[mio1996]

Well, if you would have checked the poll in the thread a few lines down, you'd see that less than half of us feel that way. Read the responses and you'll see the range of opinions. Even those of us who believe this WOE is best for anyone; how is that dangerous? We're not campaigning to take your sugar and potatoes away from you.

That's exactly right, Kristine! I could understand Nologo's attitude if we were all here plotting to lobby our representatives to outlaw sugar, but I think most of us here support the right of anyone to eat whatever they want. I would never go on a low-fat board to use sarcasm and be so rude!

I guess some people just cannot bring themselves to take the high roads in life :)

[dodg4kat]

I know this point has been driven home to death but I just have to add in my .02
As a biology teacher and the result of many diet attempts including Weight Watchers, vegetarian, and traditional low fat I have to continue to argue with his "studies" that will support the ultimate betterness of his diets vs. ours. Show me the money, so to speak. I do not propose that Aktins, or other LC WOE's are the only diets that work for anyone but I do propose that from an evolutionary standpoint, we have evolved to eat this way. More and more studies (NOT from Atkins I might add) have shown that heart disease and gum disease (and diabetes) virtually didn't exist in the populations of america before refined sugar and flour became readily available. Now compare american diets with those of other countries and you'll find that most use much less sugar and flour per person than us. And Americans have the highest rate of obesity and type 2 diabetes in the world....Does anyone else see the connection here? While I do not think of myself as anywhere close to an expert in this area some things just make sense when you put them together....I find it unfortunate that NoLogo doesn't seem to have the ability to see the true connections.
Happy LC folks..it is the ONLY diet for me!

[Kristine]

Kristine, you saying you don't advocate taking candy from a baby?

:lol: How did that saying come about, anyway? Who feeds babies candy?

[sugarjunky]

I was going to stay out of this until I noticed you throwing around your self-proclaimed knowledge of 20 different eating philosophies. However, I’ve read no evidence in any of your posts to actually back up these declarations substantially.

I consider myself pretty knowledgeable in dieting and nutrition, and have spent much of my life searching for what works the best for me nutritionally. I have also at one point in my youth suffered from an eating disorder, and a distorted body image. With the exception of the past 8 months, I’ve been a vegetarian/vegan for over ten years, and have always considered myself, for the most part, healthy. In the past three years, I’ve let myself gain some excess weight that I’m now very motivated to get rid of.

Eight years ago, I stumbled upon a book called, “You are all Sampaku.” That book was the catalyst for my starting the macrobiotic regimen, and in no time, “Zen Macrobiotics” became my bible. I loved it. I had a notable energy increase, and lost even more weight than I really needed too. Macrobiotics worked for me for several years, the only problem was that my husband and daughter required more than the simple diet of organic rice, vegetables, legumes and occasional fish and eggs to be satisfying for them. I stopped following Macrobiotics regularly about three years ago. I have also recently (as mentioned above) decided to start incorporating dairy, poultry, pork and beef back into my diet.

When I first heard about the Atkin’s diet, I was pretty skeptical. But seeing as how I didn’t really have much weight to lose, and I was eating meat and dairy again anyway, I decided to give it a try. Both of my in-laws had tried it and lost impressive amounts of weight and knowing I couldn’t really judge something without having experience with it, I said, “What the heck.” What’s two weeks, you know? What I’ve found in the past four weeks now has been amazing to me. Not only have I lost weight, but also I’ve stopped craving sweets altogether, and lost while keeping my muscle mass in the process! Quite unlike the Macrobiotic regimen, where I still craved sweets frequently, if not daily. Low carbing has given me the freedom to eat without feeling deprived. These two regimens are similar in the fact that neither allows sugar (except where Macro. allows rice syrup and molasses) Atkin’s allows none. I love that. Sugar is such poison for your system, and has a tendency to promote gluttony, decay, and addiction.

What a relief and a miracle it is that I could find something that helps me cut an addiction out of my life! I know I’m healthy, because I feel great, and on a daily basis I'm eating many wonderful fruits and vegetables, and high quality meats and cheeses. Soon, when I graduate to maintenance, I’ll be including whole grain foods that nourish my body, not deplete it. How in the world could eating organic fruits, vegetables, meats, and whole grains be an unhealthy, or dangerous life choice?

Always being a health nut, in addition to this way of eating I include mutli-vitamins, flax oil, evening primrose oil, calcium-magnesium, and vitamin C. These are all very helpful, I have found, in maintaining the best health for me hormonally. I have always suffered from severe PMS, but my last period was remarkably less painful, and the hormonal induced emotional agony was almost non-existent.

NoLogo, I really don’t agree with the sarcastic, rude, and closed-minded way you’ve gone about expressing your opinions here in this thread, starting with the ridiculous title. Not only is it completely judgmental of you, but you have absolutely nothing to base your opinions on as far as I have read. You haven’t tried this way of eating, have you? I also find your motives to be nothing more than argumentative, and negatively confrontational. The way you twist peoples’ words around to mean something so offensive as a “disgruntled cult of carnivores” is really contemptuous and condescending of you.

These people, myself included, call this way of eating a “Way of Life” because it works for them where nothing else has, and because it does not end. It stays consistent with their lifestyles, otherwise, the weight would go back on when the diet was over. It’s like an alcoholic calling sobriety their “WOL.” They don’t suddenly say, “Okay, I can drink again now, I’m cured!” Breaking cycles of compulsive disorders and addictions is a rewarding and praiseworthy accomplishment. Quite obviously, we all have some form of eating disorders, or we wouldn’t be here looking for support and guidence. Sadly, you are incapable of seeing it that way. Apparently that’s because of your need to judge, condemn and criticize.

No one here preaches, or judges and I guarantee you that all of us would love to eat all the sinful foods out there if we could! However, those foods have caused us to gain weight and suffer from many detriments, such as chronic fatigue, gastrointestinal disorders, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, depression, obesity, sleep disorders, and many, many more. All these are able to be tied to one thing; SUGAR. So, we’ve realized that we couldn’t, or have chosen not to. We’re all adults here, and these are our choices. The fact that you have shown absolutely no respect for that is not our problem, and is in no way admirable, yet unquestionably despicable.

The last thing I want to clear up with you is your misconception that a low carb lifestyle is all about meat. A low carb lifestyle is about NO SUGAR, and everything that turns into sugar in your blood. I mean, if a vegetarian can do a LC diet, then it’s not all about meat, and certainly has nothing to do with protesting PETA. So, your approach is not only utterly ineffective, but also completely wrong. In the future, please get a clue, and learn to express yourself without your debasing and immature attitude.

Love,
Dedicated Lowcarber :wave:

[NoLogo]

Hey, haven't been around in a while but appreciate the replies. In terms of added sugar, wheat, and such I think it's a great idea. But one of the problems I can't seem to resolve is why someone native to the Arctic and someone native to Brazil are meant to share the same diet. Certain ethnicities are allergic to different foods mainly because of thier environment and/or what they've grown accustomed to over many generations. Many people are lactose intolerant, many people are allergic to peanuts, many people are allergic to wheat. Unless the exact lifestyle is going to be replicated ( extreme temperatures etc. ) I don't see why this diet could be considered evolutionarily appropriate. But yeah, a vegan eating chips and coke is going to be far worse off than someone eating chicken and water. Thanks though, it was nice to read responses that didn't cause me to go sarcastic.

[carps]

did anyone consider just ignoring nologo? it would appear that the argument is the actual goal, and we have given him that. If no-one replied, he'd have no one to argue with and probably just bugger off to stir up other passionate, committed people who believe in something enough to stand up for it.

its ridiculous to say your opinions are important and then say you don't care what we think. Why are your opinions important?, I don't care about them at all. Your opinions are yours and yours alone. They don't affect, me, my life, or anyones on here. Your opinion is only important to you unless someone actually asks you for it, and if I'm not mistaken - no one did.

If you trying to understand the diet - we'll explain it, if you want information - we'll give it, if you want a better woe - we've got it.

If you just want to argue - well you got that too.

[tom sawyer]

To answer your question about regional specificity in terms of optimal diet, yes there is a certain amount of that. However, we are all the same species, and share much more in common than we have differences. The time frame you are talking about, where we see some adaptation to certain foodstuffs, is not enough to undo the hundreds of thousands of common background.

Consider also, that there didn't used to be nearly as many people on the earth, so we might well have all descended from a relatively few ancestors. In which case, we all received their ability to thrive on whatever type of foodstuffs they lived on.

We have become very adaptable animals from a diet perspective. But the effectiveness of the low carb diet, both in weight loss, blood lipid profiles, and prevention of diabetes, indicates to me that it is closer to what we are "supposed" to be eating, than the high carb stuff that's been making us fatter and sicker for the last 30 years.