thyroid and estrogen??

[carroll197]

I was on armour thyroid in the past, not sure if I felt better on it or not. But, my new doctor wasn't comfortable keeping me on it, sound familiar. I have alot of the symptoms of hypo (can't lose weight, low energy, low temps etc). The past three months my right breast has been swollen and sore, finally went to endo Dr. about this, he said I had an enlarged thyroid, and he thought the swollen breast was probably due to an interplay between thyroid hormones and estrogen, both probably out of whack. I'm currently waiting for the blood results, he said it would probably hard to catch, and I'm afraid tests will come back normal as usual, sometimes it would just be nice to have what you already know confirmed. Did any of you have these sort of symptoms? Also I seem to be gaining weight even easier than ususal. Darn :)
Any advice? I'll let you know about the blood tests, I've had TSH, T3 and T4 done in the past always "normal", but I think he's doing the antibody tests this time.
Thanks
oh yea, definately getting coconut oil tonight. :)

[powerofnow]

Hi!

I have been avoiding opening the thyroid link on this forum, I just didn't want to open that can of worms. I get soooo confused.

I have thyroid disease (Graves disease) and I took Armour in the past. Like you, I don't know that I see a difference between the Armour and my current supplement, Levoxyl. I have not been the same person since I got sick with the thyroid problems over 20 years ago, and getting balanced is a huge pain in the patootie.

Anyway, what I have noticed with me is that when I watch my menstrual cycle, I feel so much better during the time when estrogen is supposed to spike, around ovulation time. I have energy, I'm happy, I feel "in my body" and not foggy and dazed. Sometimes my breasts get very very very tender, painful. So, I too, am seeking the solution to the thyroid/estrogen mystery.

Is your doctor willing to work with you? Some doctors are willing to experiment and see how things go. There are whole ranges of "normal" for thyroid, and you just may feel better on the high end of "normal", and your body might respond better to it.

I'll be watching to see what happens with your tests and I will let you know if I get any answers from my doc about my estrogen.

Best wishes,
Claudia

[carroll197]

Claudia,
I'm not on any thyroid medications now, while i have most of the symptoms and have had most of my life, my current doctor seems to be one that goes by the #'s. So if my TSH, T3 and T4 are all within "normal" range, she won't put me on it. That's why i stopped taking armour. My past doctor used basal body temp. as a read out instead, mine are always low. I think you're right, just because the levels are "normal" doesn't mean they are doing what they're supposed to for us, obviously!
I got my tests back and of course they were within "normal" range, you know it may sound strange but after I go through these tests I almost hope they would find something wrong, so maybe we could do something about it.
It's interesting what you said about your cycle and thyroid, you know I seem to have one good week, where I feel energetic and gettting out of bed doesn't seem like such a hassle, followed by 2-3 really low energy, tired weeks. I wonder if this has something to do with that? I'll talk to my doctor about experimenting, but I don't think she'll be willing too, I don't really have much of a choice in doctors right now because I'm in grad. school so I have to go to the health center.
I guess my growth hormone came back a little off, so doctor is going to do a glucose tolerance test, probably will be normal,ha ha. By the way my endo did mention that there is an interplay between thyroid and estrogen, I'll do a little reading, I can't remember exactly how he said it works.
Teresa

[doloresrod]

Okay, I'm confused. I thought there was a spike in progesterone at ovulation. And that when you supplement with progesterone between days 14-28 then that can raise your metabolism. At least that is what my endo. said when I asked for a prescription of natural progesterone- Bella Fem. She told me to watch it because I am on Armour Thyroid plus a compound T4 which she just put me on because my Free T4 test was still low but in the "normal range" as most doctors would see. Anyway, I hope I'm not confusing you.
When I first started Armour my test were normal but I did get my doctor to put me on Armour because my test results were borderline low and I had so many hypo symptoms that she was willing to do it. This was my PCP but now I go to my endo..
My test results were: TSH 1.93 and Free T4 0.8
Now my TSH is 0.1 and Free T4 was 1.2 not much difference in the Free T4 so she put me on the compound T4. Was concerned about raising the Armour because of the TSH level so low. That considered me mildly elevated on my thyroid. Wasn't feeling it though. Now that she added the T4 I feel a little better and I am starting to lose weight again. I go back in about 4 weeks for more blood work to see how the T4 is working.

Well, I hope I didn't confuse you too much. What were your actual test results?

[powerofnow]

When I was looking at the calendar, I had marked off the days I felt on top of the world, and it corresponded to the estradiol (estrogen??) portion of this chart, about half way down the page:

http://www.holistic-online.com/Remedies/hrt/hrt_menstr_hormone.htm

It looks like you have an estrogen spike, then a dip, then the progesterone spikes, then they both dip to signal the cycle is done and to start the flow. I'm not at all sure if I am looking at this right though.

I don't know my levels now, I am due for a check which unfortunately was on hold for a long time because I had no insurance. I have never been on two different types of thyroid at the same time and I didn't know that even existed until recently. I guess I should go to an endocrinologist instead of my internist.

Why did your doc tell you to watch it with the progesterone cream?

Teresa-
I was just reading that if our adrenals, the pituitary, thyroid hormone, growth hormone and sex hormones and I imagine all of our hormones are inter-related, so it makes sense that your doc is doing those tests. Now, I just need to find someone who will test me.

I'm very interested to hear the results of both of your tests, and as soon as I have some I will let you know what is up with me.

This has been really helpful, thank you!

Claudia

[doloresrod]

The reason the doctor told me to watch it with the progesterone cream is because I am on thyroid medicine and with the added cream it could make my thyroid levels go up.

I know that Dr. Hotze here in Houston believes in women taking the progesterone cream from days 15-28 because most women are estrogen dominant and that causes you to gain weight. And he definitely believes in taking Armour Thyroid. And he is one doctor that does not go by the levels but your symptoms. But he is very expensive and does not take insurance. That's why I am fortunate to have the endo. that I go to.

He does have a website if you are interested. www.hotzewc.com

Take Care,
Dolores

[carroll197]

All your input is very interesting. I'm definately going to try and keep track of how i'm feeling and how it relates to my cycle. My tests (blood work anyway) all came back with in the "normal" range. This didn't surprise me very much, I've had my thyroid checked lots of times and it's always "normal" although I have all the symptoms. My doctor now doesn't believe in putting people on thyroid based on symptoms (which seem like a much better read out to me). I need to get the actual #'s for the tests they ran, because I'd like to see where I fell in the "normal" range. I am still waiting to have a glucose intolerance test, they usually do this to check for diabetes, but my doctor is going to watch my growth hormone levels while they do it. Pituitary function also seems to have a lot of interplay with thyroid and estrogen too, I really need to do some more reading. I don't have the test for a couple weeks, but I'll let you know what they find. Meanwhile I've been feeling really weak and lethargic, I'm not sure if it's the diet or not, I still haven't lost any weight...so frustrating and have been having head aches, maybe I'm a little hypoglycemic, but I've really been trying to be good and keep it super low carb. Anyone have any advice or similar problems? It's really hard to make yourself go exercise when you feel like this.

[nobunthanx]

please see reply to an other thread
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?postid=2544586#post2544586

[carroll197]

Sorry it's been so long, if any of you are still interested I wanted to post my test results and see if you had any input. I finally had my glucose tolerance test to see if my growth hormone response was OK, apparently it was, but I did notice that my resting blood sugar was 67, seems kind of low to me maybe that's why I've been feeling so tired all the time. My TSH was 0.7 which wouldn't indicate that I'm hypothyroid at all, but my T4 was 0.9, doctor says .7-1.8 is normal, so it seems to me that 0.9 is pretty low, what have you guys heard? Should I press my doctor on this? By the way my right breast is still swollen (5 months and counting). Thanks for any input.
Teresa

[doloresrod]

Sorry it's been so long, if any of you are still interested I wanted to post my test results and see if you had any input. I finally had my glucose tolerance test to see if my growth hormone response was OK, apparently it was, but I did notice that my resting blood sugar was 67, seems kind of low to me maybe that's why I've been feeling so tired all the time. My TSH was 0.7 which wouldn't indicate that I'm hypothyroid at all, but my T4 was 0.9, doctor says .7-1.8 is normal, so it seems to me that 0.9 is pretty low, what have you guys heard? Should I press my doctor on this? By the way my right breast is still swollen (5 months and counting). Thanks for any input.
Teresa

Your T4 is borderline low and I think you should press your doctor on this. What about a Free T3 test? When I started Armour my TSH level was 2.93 and my Free T4 was 1.0 after seeing my 3rd doctor she agreed to put me on the Armour because of all my symptoms. Definitely press your doctor about the issue especially if you are having all the symptoms.

Dolores

[Natrushka]

My TSH was 0.7 which wouldn't indicate that I'm hypothyroid at all, but my T4 was 0.9, doctor says .7-1.8 is normal, so it seems to me that 0.9 is pretty low, what have you guys heard? Should I press my doctor on this? By the way my right breast is still swollen (5 months and counting). Thanks for any input.
Teresa

Teresa, I would press my doctor for the right tests. Total T4 is not good enough, it doesn't tell you if those hormones are free for your body to use. You, ideally, would want a Free T4 and a Free T3 done. While your TSH doesn't look bad, it doesn't tell the whole story.

The fact that you might have an issue with esgtrogen makes it even more important you have your FT3 tested. You said your levels were 'normal'; do you know the exact numbers (and what all was tested). Hormones like estrogen, progesterone, testosterone and cortisol can be like thyroid; normal ain't enough. If your estrogen is high, your progesterone and testosterone are usually low, and cortisol is high. These interplay with thyroid hormones, in particular T3 (high cortisol suppresses your body's ability to convert T4 to T3).

Nat