Public Gives Ideas to Update Food Pyramid

[doreen T]

Public Gives Ideas to Update Food Pyramid

link to article (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=534&e=2&u=/ap/20040801/ap_on_he_me/fit_food_pyramid)

Sat Jul 31,10:48 PM ET


By IRA DREYFUSS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Since the government's request earlier this month for ideas on how to update the Food Guide Pyramid, letters from the public have poured in, many including hand-drawn sketches.

One suggested a cartoon image of a muscleman made out of breads, fruits and meats. Another included the slogan, "Eat reasonably or get fat."

The pyramid, which is 12 years old, advises which food groups to eat and offers estimates of how many servings people should have.

Bread, cereal, rice and pasta form the base, at six to 11 servings daily. On the second tier are vegetables (three to five servings) and fruit (two to four servings).

The third tier has the milk, yogurt and cheese group, and the meat, poultry, fish, dry beans, eggs and nuts group; two to three servings are recommended from each. At the top of the pyramid are fats, oils and sweets. "Use sparingly" is the advice for this group.

Yet it seems people are following this guidance sparingly. Although 80 percent of Americans recognize the graphic, about two-thirds are overweight or obese.

The Agriculture Department, which issued the notice soliciting ideas on July 13, hopes a catchy slogan, combined with the image of the pyramid, will motivate people to get their weight under control.

People who get the big picture from the graphic and the slogan would then check out brochures, Web sites and other sources for more detailed information that fits their lives.

The graphic and slogan must reflect updated nutrition recommendations being developed by an advisory committee to the departments of Agriculture and Health and Human Services (news - web sites).

But people who send in their ideas do not have to worry about that. It's the Agriculture Department's job to make sure everything fits and is ready to go early next year when the nutrition guidelines also are to be released.

Simplifying the pyramid is a good idea, wrote a Wisconsin woman, Beth Nelson. "The pyramid simply has too much junk in it," she said. "Reading it is a pain." She also suggested as a slogan, "Eat reasonably or get fat" — and if that's too much, "simply, 'Be reasonable.'"

Anna Akins of Ormond Beach, Fla., would keep the pyramid but lop off a level, going from four tiers to three. That way, the department would get a snazzy slogan: "As Easy as 1-2-3."

Most comments focused on the picture; many suggested the government turn the pyramid on its head. Then, the things people ought to eat sparingly (fats, oils and sweets in the current version) would be on the bottom, where they would be noticed less.

Shelly Holm of Downey, Calif., turned her upended pyramid into the torso of a cartoon muscleman. The wide end (breads, grains, fibers) made the figure's shoulders. The eat-sparingly stuff gave her muscleman a narrow waist.

Other writers suggested something similar to the food guidance pie chart the department had before it went to the pyramid.

Ruby Hill of Danbury, N.H., figured a nested set of dinner plates would get the idea across. The smallest plate, on the inside, would be for the average diet. The largest plate, on the outside, would be for teenagers and others who have high-revving metabolisms.

Some correspondents wondered if the entire effort was worth the trouble.

People already know what they should eat, said Steven Sheldon of Wetumpka, Ala. "What we really need are medical advances that allow us to eat whatever we want and fix the problems caused by it," he said.

The latest round of comments is far from the entire file submitted to the department. Hundreds of writers, including many experts in nutrition, have sent in pyramid-restructuring ideas starting in 2003, while the agency was looking only for comments on the size of servings or portions it should include.

The agency now is playing down the idea of including serving sizes in the new food guide symbol, figuring individual calorie needs vary too much to be summed up in a single graphic.

Also, the department expects more comments on its latest call for ideas.

The heavy hitters in the food industry, such as the major trade organizations that lobby Washington, sent in comments in the last round but have not weighed in on the July proposal. They probably will not until near the Aug. 27 deadline. That makes it harder for critics to read their ideas and send in rebuttals.

___

On the Net

Food Guide Comments:

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/pyramid-update/Comments/index.html

[doreen T]

..... People already know what they should eat, said Steven Sheldon of Wetumpka, Ala. "What we really need are medical advances that allow us to eat whatever we want and fix the problems caused by it," he said.
:rolleyes: :eek: :daze:


Doreen

[K Walt]

Sorry, but I don't see the point in asking everyday folks about what should be on the pyramid, or whatever graphic they'll be using.

It's almost like saying "vote for what we should say." Is it just me, or is that just plain stupid?

Personally, I couldn't care less how or if they change the pyramid. Besides, whatever they come up with, most people won't follow it. They will continue to eat what they want. Which is what 98% of people have ALWAYS done.

[Lisa N]

People already know what they should eat, said Steven Sheldon of Wetumpka, Ala. "What we really need are medical advances that allow us to eat whatever we want and fix the problems caused by it," he said.

Oh, my goodness! How typical is this of the mindset of so many people today? "I want to have my cake and eat it, too...literally, so please come up with some medical miracle (preferably a pill...I don't care how safe it is or not) that allows me to do that without having to pay the consequences". Instead of, "Wow! Maybe I should take some responsibility regarding what I choose to put in my body?" :rolleyes:

[Samuel]

Oh, my goodness! How typical is this of the mindset of so many people today? "I want to have my cake and eat it, too...literally, so please come up with some medical miracle (preferably a pill...I don't care how safe it is or not) that allows me to do that without having to pay the consequences". Instead of, "Wow! Maybe I should take some responsibility regarding what I choose to put in my body?" :rolleyes:
I don't see why this should be much to ask for. Obesity has been minimum at all times except for the past 2-3 decades. People have always been eating all they like to eat without becoming obese. Most animals and birds in the jungle eat all they can without turning obese.

Our bodies are made to regulate our weight automatically, so we are not expected to pay attention to what to eat or how much to eat.

There must be a reason for the recent obesity epidimic. Once we know what it is and how to overcome it, we should become able to eat whatever we like and stay fit.

[Lisa N]

Our bodies are made to regulate our weight automatically, so we are not expected to pay attention to what to eat or how much to eat.

That may or may not be the case. I don't agree that obesity has only been a problem in the past 2-3 decades. Research into the state of health of ancient Egyptians through looking at the thousands of mummies discovered has indicated that obesity was rampant in that society.
As for our bodies regulating our weight automatically, think about the food that humans evolved on (hint...Big Macs didn't figure prominantly, nor did most of the highly processed crap that many people think of as food today). Until the advent of agriculture roughly 10,000 years ago, our diets consisted of whatever we could hunt or gather and that varied considerably depending on the geographical location and time of year.
I think you're comparing apples to oranges when comparing how we eat now to how people ate 4 decades ago let alone several thousand years ago, especially considering that sugar consumption alone has gone up astronomically and (at least in America) pop consumption is up to an average of 56 gallons per person per year. People are definitely eating what they want and it appears that what they want is lots and lots of sugar.

Most animals and birds in the jungle eat all they can without turning obese.

Perhaps, but I'm not constantly having to hunt, expending large amounts of energy in the process, for my next meal and I'm also not constantly having to spend large amounts of energy evading predators. Besides...many animals do go through periods of fattening up and slimming down depending on the availability of food and the season...take a close look at the Grizzly or the Polar Bear fattening up for hibernation..or squirrels for that matter....those guys definitely get obese in the process. ;)

[mcsblues]

You can check out the submissions that people have made here;

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/pyramid-update/Comments/index.html

- but be warned, it is fairly depressing!

Cheers,

Malcolm

[Samuel]

That may or may not be the case. I don't agree that obesity has only been a problem in the past 2-3 decades........Ancient Egyptians have left us thousands of statues and drawings of kings, queens and others. You can hardly see any significant obesity among most of them. I know there have been some obese people allover history everywhere on earth, but I don't think they have ever exceeded 10% of the population in any society until recently.

I believe this percentage of obese people has remained constant until the sixties or even the seventies when it started to grow for some reason.

Big Macs are not so new to mankind. People have been eating meat and bread for several thousand years. We are still disputing what makes Big Mac so bad, is it the high fat content of the meat or is it the high carb content of the bread!

I agree that the overconsumption of sugar could be a cause. Here are some possible causes of the recent obesity epidemic:

(1) Excessive intake of carbohydrates
(2) Repeated attempts to lose weight by reducing calories.
(3) Driving cars instead of horse riding or walking.
(4) Living in an airconditioned/well heated environment.

[mcsblues]

Ancient Egyptians have left us thousands of statues and drawings of kings, queens and others. You can hardly see any significant obesity among most of them. I know there have been some obese people allover history everywhere on earth, but I don't think they have ever exceeded 10% of the population in any society until recently.


There are two big problems with this.

1. Imagine if thousands of years from now archaeologists discovered the remnants of our civilization - magazines, movies etc. They would deduce we were all thin and beautiful/hansome!

2. The Egyptians left behind more than just statutes and drawings. Literally thousands of mummies give a different perspective, with a great number of them demonstrating that the deceased was considerably overweight when they died. Some of the Pharoahs may well have been exceptions to the rule because of inherited illnesses as a result of inbreeding (marrying your sister was acceptable if not encouraged!) Why were the general populace struggling with their weight? They lived in a agriculture based civilization with the staple foods being wheat and barley. Fruit and vegetables were available and some fish and poultry but almost no red meat. Honey was used as a sweetener. It is said that the Egyptian army soldiers had a ration of 5 pounds of bread a day! In short the reason for their obesity, and ours, was/is excess carbohydrates.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[Lisa N]

Ancient Egyptians have left us thousands of statues and drawings of kings, queens and others. You can hardly see any significant obesity among most of them. I know there have been some obese people allover history everywhere on earth, but I don't think they have ever exceeded 10% of the population in any society until recently.

Along with what Malcolm said, the estimates that I have seen regarding the percentage of obesity in the ancient Egyptian population are in the range of 50-60%, very close to what we are seeing in American society today.
As for the drawings and statues, these were under the control of the Pharoah cult who likely would not have shown their god in an unfavorable light (and wouldn't have lived long if they did) and since fatness was not seen as a positive trait, even though it was quite common, it was not depicted. Much like we don't see pictures of fat people figuring prominently in our current media (magazines, TV, movies, etc...) unless the story is specifically about fat people.

[agd]

I would tell them that eating 11 servings of pasta and cereal is what got me overweight in the first place.

[Kristine]

People already know what they should eat, said Steven Sheldon of Wetumpka, Ala. "What we really need are medical advances that allow us to eat whatever we want and fix the problems caused by it," he said.

I was going to make fun of this guy, but he's probably the CEO of Roche or something.

[EvelynS]

Along with what Malcolm said, the estimates that I have seen regarding the percentage of obesity in the ancient Egyptian population are in the range of 50-60%, very close to what we are seeing in American society today.


Wouldn't that be 50-60% of people who could afford to be mummified? I doubt the poor (the majority) would have suffered much obesity. Also wealthy Egyptians may have eaten highly refined carbs-- there's a wall painting showing wheat being passed through 14 increasingly fine linen sieves. It must have become like very highly refined French AA flour.

[Lisa N]

Wouldn't that be 50-60% of people who could afford to be mummified? I doubt the poor (the majority) would have suffered much obesity.

I posted a link about this a while back. If you do a search of this forum using "mummy", you can probably locate it. It wasn't only the very rich (as in Pharaohs and their families) who were mummified. Many of the mummies discovered were not found in pharaoh's tombs (actually, only a very small percentage of the thousands discovered are royalty). As the process became more common, even the middle class could afford the process, although not on as an extravagant basis as that of the pharaoh. The poor were often buried in the dry sand of the desert which worked very well for preserving (or mummifying) the body and these also indicate widespread obesity not to mention widesperad dental caries and plaque clogged arteries even in those who died relatively young.

[DietSka]

I doubt the poor (the majority) would have suffered much obesity.
I somehow doubt that. A few weeks ago I read in a local paper that the poorest regions in my country have the highest obesity rates. They concluded the article blaming excess calories which made me laugh out loud. I know what poor people eat: bread and potatoes and corn and rice, the cheap stuff. Fresh meat and veggies are expensive now and they've probably been expensive in ancient Egypt, too. Many of the poor nowadays also get plenty of exercise: they get the lower pay physically demanding jobs, they have no car which means they have to walk all over the place, etc, pretty much like the poor people of ancient Egypt, I think. So, if today's poor are fat I presume the ancient poor could have been fat, too.
Of course, I'm talking about the general poor that can earn their subsistence and not the very low end of the spectrum.

[Nancy LC]

Ancient Egyptians didn't have cars...

I sincerely doubt the poor were overweight. Even if they ate carbs they probably worked very hard physically. I think the problem with carbs is when you eat them and don't labor physically. Certainly my American ancestors ate lots of carbs and were skinny, because they labored hard! I mean, look at all the work that women used to have to do with no electric appliances. Can you imagine whipping eggs or cream by hand? Kneeding bread? Scrubbing floors... beating rugs... Dang! That'd be hard work.

[PlaneCrazy]

... I think the problem with carbs is when you eat them and don't labor physically. Certainly my American ancestors ate lots of carbs and were skinny, because they labored hard! I mean, look at all the work that women used to have to do with no electric appliances. Can you imagine whipping eggs or cream by hand? Kneeding bread? Scrubbing floors... beating rugs... Dang! That'd be hard work.

Yup. My ancestors also worked darned hard as farmers and teamsters (horses, not unions) and ate all kinds of carbs. My grandmother told me that they ate a pie every day in their house with most of it going to those who worked the hardest. They also cooked with lard, ate tons of meat and fat and veggies.

I can attest to how hard you have to work when you try to do something by hand that we now use power tools to do. My main hobby is woodworking using only hand tools (hence my name, crazy about planes). This is very hard work. For something that was considered fine work, like furniture making, you sure work up a sweat and use a lot of muscles. Just try to rip a 6-foot, 2-inch-thick board of rock maple down the middle lengthwise with a hand saw and you'll know what work is. Or take a three-inch leg of walnut and plane it down to 2.5 inches with a taper. One, you get a great appreciation for sharp tools, but you also appreciate the tremendous hard work our ancestors did to make their world. If you want to see an example click here (http://www-personal.umich.edu/~amidkiff/projects/tvtable/mytable.html).

Plane Crazy

[DebPenny]

That's a beautiful table and a fine accomplishment :cool:. My grandfather used to make such things. I still have a few of the pieces he made. They are treasures to this day.

[BadgerGirl]

I mean, look at all the work that women used to have to do with no electric appliances. Can you imagine whipping eggs or cream by hand? Kneeding bread? Scrubbing floors... beating rugs... Dang! That'd be hard work.
Laundry! :daze:

[DebPenny]

I wash my dishes by hand. ;)

[CindySue48]

LOL Deb....so do I!

[Quinadal]

If you read "Life without Bread" they claim that the Egyptians weren't thin, and were, inact, obese. They say that they can tell this by the skin folds on mummies.

[Lisa N]

If you read "Life without Bread" they claim that the Egyptians weren't thin, and were, in fact, obese. They say that they can tell this by the skin folds on mummies.

It's not just that author. Dr. Sears (The Zone) and Drs. Dan and Mary Eades (Protein Power) as well as several others make reference to that fact. As a matter of fact, it was Dr. Sears who made the comment that the rate of obesity seen in the general Egyptian population during the time that people were being mummified (either through the formal process or through burial in sand) was similar to what is seen currently in America today. Given that they weren't eating junk food and were far more active than the typical person today through physical labor and just the general hardships of life at that time, it becomes even more striking.
Dr. Sears also made another interesting observation: the ancient Egyptians averaged a full 6 inches shorter in stature than their paleolithic ancestors. Something he credits to a decrease in protein consumption.

[Quinadal]

And they were a grain based civilization...

[DebPenny]

It's not just that author. Dr. Sears (The Zone) and Drs. Dan and Mary Eades (Protein Power) as well as several others make reference to that fact. As a matter of fact, it was Dr. Sears who made the comment that the rate of obesity seen in the general Egyptian population during the time that people were being mummified (either through the formal process or through burial in sand) was similar to what is seen currently in America today. Given that they weren't eating junk food and were far more active than the typical person today through physical labor and just the general hardships of life at that time, it becomes even more striking.
This also seems to put the lie to exercise's being the solution to all our weight problems. Personally, I now enjoy being active, but I know that it's my changing my way of eating that has put me on the road to health. And I'm healthy without yet being thin.

[caverjen]

A lot of our ancestors weren't thin, but they weren't obese either. The thin ideal we have now is very recent. In previous times, being "sturdy", "stout" or "plump" were positive terms associated with health. Thin was associated with being frail and weak, not qualities you'd want in a farm worker!

Jen

[Angeline]

Thin was associated with being frail and weak, not qualities you'd want in a farm worker!
...Or a wife

it was Dr. Sears who made the comment that the rate of obesity seen in the general Egyptian population during the time that people were being mummified (either through the formal process or through burial in sand) was similar to what is seen currently in America today.

The thing that nags me about this statement is if you accept that it's grains that made America fat, why did it happen around 30 years ago. People ate plenty of grains, potatoes and corn around the turn of the century, but they weren't obese. If the Egyptians were obese from a diet of grains, why weren't turn-of-the-century americans. Another example, is France, during the middle ages. I read a book that said that bread was the mainstay of their diet. They ate tons of it ! But they weren't obese.

So there has to be more to it than just grain consomption.

[Nancy LC]

If you ever have a chance to see "Pioneer House" you should. It was on PBS a few years back. Anyway, they put 3 families into the same situation that pioneers would have been, in Montana, in the late 1800's.

Anyway, everyone lost a lot of weight because they worked so darned hard. In fact, this one guy thought he was seriously ill because he got so lean, but a doctor explained to him that mean weighed an average of 145 pounds back then.

[Samuel]

the estimates that I have seen regarding the percentage of obesity in the ancient Egyptian population are in the range of 50-60%, ......
As for the drawings and statues, these were under the control of the Pharoah cult who likely would not have shown their god in an unfavorable light (and wouldn't have lived long if they did) and since fatness was not seen as a positive trait, even though it was quite common, it was not depicted. Much like we don't see pictures of fat people figuring prominently in our current media (magazines, TV, movies, etc...) unless the story is specifically about fat people.
Come on! I know you are basing your opinion on somebody's research who claims that Egyptian mummies show high rate of obesity. Remember how many articles you have been reading about research which showes all the evil of fats and how great carbs are until Dr. Atkins challenged these ideas and convinced you of the contrary. Wait until one day someone comes with a new research which shaws that Ancient Egyptians have not been so obese.

I have visited Cairo's museum long time ago and have seen all the mummies there with thousands of pictures and statues. Here are my comments:

(1) Egypt does not allow anybody to touch these mummies. So, knowing whether the arteries of thousands of them have been clogged or not is nothing which could have been done with accuracy.

(2) When you look at these mummies, all you see left is their outer flesh, completely hardened and blackened since they have been exposed to desert heat for upto 4000 years. So, there is practically no much left to analyse other than probably their bones.

(3) The mummies outside measurments are for average size individuals. However I know this cannot tell much.

(4) There are tens of thousands of pictures for all kinds of ancient Egyptians to look at. Some are for single persons and some are for groups of people. Some are for men and some are for women. Some are for good people and some are for bad people. There is no way you can look at all these pictures and assume that the obesity rate among ancient Egyptians has been as high as 60%.

(5) Saying that their artists have been intentionally making people look skinnier than they are for the sake of advertising is nothing that I can listen to.

[mcsblues]

Come on! I know you are basing your opinion on somebody's research who claims that Egyptian mummies show high rate of obesity. Remember how many articles you have been reading about research which showes all the evil of fats and how great carbs are until Dr. Atkins challenged these ideas and convinced you of the contrary. Wait until one day someone comes with a new research which shaws that Ancient Egyptians have not been so obese.

I have visited Cairo's museum long time ago and have seen all the mummies there with thousands of pictures and statues. Here are my comments:

(1) Egypt does not allow anybody to touch these mummies. So, knowing whether the arteries of thousands of them have been clogged or not is nothing which could have been done with accuracy.

(2) When you look at these mummies, all you see left is their outer flesh, completely hardened and blackened since they have been exposed to desert heat for upto 4000 years. So, there is practically no much left to analyse other than probably their bones.

(3) The mummies outside measurments are for average size individuals. However I know this cannot tell much.

(4) There are tens of thousands of pictures for all kinds of ancient Egyptians to look at. Some are for single persons and some are for groups of people. Some are for men and some are for women. Some are for good people and some are for bad people. There is no way you can look at all these pictures and assume that the obesity rate among ancient Egyptians has been as high as 60%.

(5) Saying that their artists have been intentionally making people look skinnier than they are for the sake of advertising is nothing that I can listen to.

We are all relying on scientific studies of one kind or another, no argument there. So did Dr Atkins, the Eades etc.

(1) The mummies you would have seen were very likely from the pyramids and are protected certainly - but they have been and are still being studied. The bit about inbreeding I referred to earlier was proved by DNA analysis of mummified remains.

(2 & 3) One part that is left is the skin, and folds of "excess" skin are a pretty good indicator of obesity.

(4) You are right that the pictures and statues do not indicate that the population was obese. Todays pictures and statues do not indicate that our civilization is obese either. The "assumption" of Egyptian obesity does not stem from the pictures, but rather the scientific anaysis of the mummies and records of the diet at that time.

(5) The pictures and advertising of today should be similarly ignored.


Cheers,

Malcolm

[fitchic]

Everybody's body's different -- some people are able to eat high fat, high cholesterol food everyday and still maintain a healthy lifestyle, while others are not. The food pyramid shouldn't be anything that dictates our lives and what we eat.

[TheCaveman]

The thing that nags me about this statement is if you accept that it's grains that made America fat, why did it happen around 30 years ago.

...

So there has to be more to it than just grain consomption.

Check out Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival by T.S. Wiley. Explains everything, and is the best low-carb book there is.