squats

[Amzippity]

I've been trying to start incorporating squats into my workout. I really want to be able to do full squats, but my butt just doesnt want to go down that far!
I've been practicing without weight, then with an 8lb bar, just so I can get the form down and not feel like I'm about to fall over.
However, it seems that I just cant get past parrallel. My butt will go down further if I raise my heels, but I know that's not proper form. Somewhere I read somethign about wearing shoes with heels to help get down into a full squat.

What do you all think? What's my best bet for getting down into a full squat?

[fridayeyes]

Before you try this, check it out in a book or with one of the more experienced lifters, but I do believe I have read and seen pictures of people doing squats with a 10 lb plate under each heel for just the reason you described.

Anybody wanna tell me I'm full of it? LOL :D

Cheers,

Friday

[liftnlady]

Good advice Friday...that is exactly what I reccomended to someone else on here..it really helps balance, and hits the quads nicely.

[Amzippity]

Cool! I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem and that there's a good solution. I'm not sure about my balance being better with my heels on plates, but I'll give it a shot and try without weights first! Otherwise I can just seem myself twisting an ankle with a bar on my shoulders. ouch! :lol:

[jagbender]

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBFullSquat.html

Here is a link to a squat.

Jag

[liftnlady]

Cool! I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem and that there's a good solution. I'm not sure about my balance being better with my heels on plates, but I'll give it a shot and try without weights first! Otherwise I can just seem myself twisting an ankle with a bar on my shoulders. ouch! :lol:

it really is not that hard..you can use 5lb plates too (a little less elevation)..it may take you one or two times to get your balance right, but it is easier than it sounds. I used 25lb plates for mine...worked wonders for hittingthe muscles a new way.

[fridayeyes]

Well, or you could try squats wearing CFM pumps. Your form would suck, and you could probably barely lift the bar, but.... no one but you would notice. :)

*ducking and running*

Friday

[Amzippity]

I dont even know what CFM pumps are! :lol: I assume some type of heels? :lol:

I think I'll be okay with the plates - It's just that I'm one of the klutziest people I know! I'm always banging into things, dropping things and tripping over things. I'll just have to be extra careful. ;)

[Meg_S]

weight under the heels work great, besides inflexibility, bodystructure has a lot to do with your squat form. You also might want to try really widening your stance, this will hit your glutes more. As a stretch... sit in the bottom position and SLOWLY move your hips around a little to loosen them up.

I've been known to do squats in my 5" heels - for practical purposes only!! Really! I had to practice actually being able to function in them - not to mention be able to dance, but it really hit the quads when your heels are up that high, lol.

[Built]

CFM = Come F*** Me

<whistles innocently...>

[liftnlady]

CFM = Come F*** Me

<whistles innocently...>


who would have guessed we could count on you for a definition :lol: :lol:

[Built]

Oh dear - I guess my (bad) reputation preceeds me...

[Amzippity]

he he he... :lol: Friday just PMed me to tell me what CFM was too!

I'm guess I'm just an innocent! :lol:

(I have to pick me up a pair of those!) ;)

[fridayeyes]

LOL, yeah, that's why Built has the rep and not me. :) I go and whisper quietly in ppl's ears. Built just puts it right out there. ;)

*brazen grin*

Friday

[fridayeyes]

Built, don't feel bad, tho - I got tossed off the singles thread for trying to explain why a mature, well adjusted person might *like* being spanked....

*big kitten eyes*

Cheers,

Friday

[liftnlady]

Built, don't feel bad, tho - I got tossed off the singles thread for trying to explain why a mature, well adjusted person might *like* being spanked....

*big kitten eyes*

Cheers,

Friday

I think I would like to hear that explanation as well :lol:

[fridayeyes]

*shrugs* If you like hitting the wall and pushing through, if you like shaking on the edge of failure, focusing and feeling the rush that lets you finish? If you've ever suspected that lifting is just a little bit... masochistic...? Same stuff... Nuff said. :D I don't want to get bounced off the whole darn board, LOL.

Endorphins.... yum.

Cheers,

Friday

[Built]

Fridayeyes, I remember that thread.

<whistles innocently again...>

:)

[cartmanis]

Well, spanking and such aside, another recommendation I've read for helping with balance is making sure you are looking up, not at the mirror or down. I had to play with my balance a bit, but now I find I can keep my back straight, leaned forward just the right amount and go all the way down past paralllel for a full squat. Might help. I also hold onto the cage and stretch/practise a bit the movement with the extra support at the first. Seems to be working. I've bumped my squat from a start of 145 to 165 now, feeling good. (Now I want to incorporate deads in)

[Built]

Ohhh- you'll LOVE deads...<get's all dreamy-eyed...>
And good call on the looking UP part for squats.

Remember - chest out, butt out, and look up.

[Amzippity]

Deads are something else I'm going to try. They seem much easier to get the hang of, I just have to find the barbells at the gym! I'm trying to move past my routine revolving around whether I know where the stuff is in the gym or not!

[cartmanis]

That is what I figure, I like these whole body ones. And I love ATG squats compared to the old 1/4 - 1/2 I used to do back in University. (And still watch guys do in the gym where they are barely going down at all with 300+lbs on their shoulders)

[pookalee]

Roflmao for this thread, yall have called back some memories I left in the 80's! CFMP's, dang I havent owned a pair in while.

On another note, Ive found the best way to get into proper deadlift form is to stand with the bar directly over your feet, literally touching your ankles, spread your feel apart, put your hands right above your knees, poke your butt out, adjusting leg positioning, until your stance is comfortable. It really seems to help get the correct position, and not put a strain on the lower back.

[Built]

Yup. Basic Sir Mixalot posture.

[liftnlady]

Yup. Basic Sir Mixalot posture.

I like big butts and I cannot deny...lalalalalalala

[jagbender]

CFM posts!
Turning around and walking back out the door!
Door closing quietly behind me.

Jag

[Amzippity]

Hmm... maybe it's a good thing I'm married - I can't get too involved in this CFM talk!

[Built]

I like big butts and I cannot deny...lalalalalalala

BINGO! http://www.femininemuscle.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/bootyshake.gif :lol:

[Amzippity]

Oh My God that's TOO funny!! :lol:

[AZNemesis]

Omgosh all this just reminds me i need to get off my fat azz and work out lol...i just hate going to the gym and i have NOOO motivation to work out..anyone got some motivation they can send me? lol


Neme *hates to work out*

[liftnlady]

Omgosh all this just reminds me i need to get off my fat azz and work out lol...i just hate going to the gym and i have NOOO motivation to work out..anyone got some motivation they can send me? lol


Neme *hates to work out*

you can always check out Built's log, page 1 too see her transformation...or strip naked and run down the street....one of those should motivate you.

[Amzippity]

And today, I squatted.

The plates under my heels really helped. I only squatted the bar and that was enough. :) I had problems keeping my form and balance correct when I got to the ends of my sets. I'm pretty sure after I squat a few times with the bar and get my form/balance down pat, I'll be able to add weights to the bar.

Thanks for your help. :)

[CheesyPoof]

I'm jealous -- the bar weighs 45 pounds doesn't it? That's great! I'm still squatting with naught but a broom handle on my shoulders to get my form right. But I weight more than you, so this fat I've got counts for SOMETHING, right? ;)

Like you, I'm still working on keeping good squat form, I have terrible balance issues, but I'm working on it.

[Amzippity]

I think the bar is only 35 lbs. (the one I used anyway) but I'm not really sure about that. I ought to ask someone at the gym. hmm....

Hey, dont worry about squatting with a broom handle. I'm sure that once you are comfortable doing that you'll be able to try using a bar. The bar is actually easier than I thought. The weight is distributed more than with, say, a dumbbell, so it doesnt seem that heavy. I may have a bruise on my back from it, but....

[liftnlady]

great to hear it worked zippity...and cheesy...we all start somewhere keep up the good work ladies

[Built]

I'm jealous -- the bar weighs 45 pounds doesn't it? That's great! I'm still squatting with naught but a broom handle on my shoulders to get my form right. But I weight more than you, so this fat I've got counts for SOMETHING, right? ;)

Like you, I'm still working on keeping good squat form, I have terrible balance issues, but I'm working on it.

Yes, your extra weight counts as WEIGHT. You are currently doing weighted squats. Even with a broom handle.

I think it took me about 3 months to be able to squat the bar (standard barbell weighs 45 pounds), and a year to be able to squat my weight. I don't actually squat as much now, because I go ATF now - the most I can manage and keep good form with is 35 a side. And that's after 3 years of lifting.

I start EVERYBODY with a broom handle.

[SarahO]

I have been doing leg workouts at home, where I have no bar, only dumbbells. I can squat comfortably & with good form, with a broom handle over my shoulders, or with a 15 lb dumbbell in each hand (except that I keep hitting my knees with the stupid dumbbells). Going to the gym now, should I work my way up to the bar, say holding a 35 lb plate against my chest, or just go for the bar?

[Amzippity]

I think you could probably just go for the bar. The weight's more distributed, so it doesn't feel as heavy. If you're uncomfortable at first, you could have someone spot you just in case.

[Built]

I have been doing leg workouts at home, where I have no bar, only dumbbells. I can squat comfortably & with good form, with a broom handle over my shoulders, or with a 15 lb dumbbell in each hand (except that I keep hitting my knees with the stupid dumbbells). Going to the gym now, should I work my way up to the bar, say holding a 35 lb plate against my chest, or just go for the bar?
You should be able to squat the bar fairly soon. In the meantime, hold the dumbbells at your shoulders, AS IF they're a bar. Keeps them out of the way of your knees and hips.

[tholian8]

SarahO: I wouldn't hold anything against my chest while squatting--35 lbs is quite a bit of weight to add in front and it increases the tendency to bend too far forward, which overstresses the lower back. (Don't piss off your lower back while squatting--it doesn't appreciate the insult and can get back at you with several days of revenge. :lol: )

A lot of gyms have a short Olympic bar, which weighs ~32 lbs. That's a good one for beginning squats.

Emily

[Built]

I agree with Emily - holding the 35 against your chest would be awkward, and you should endevour to always be good friends with your spine.

[suleika]

Just to go back to something mentioned earlier; I would seriously advise not to raise the ankle. It's one of those things that stress the knee over time much more than if the foot is flat on the floor. You can work on flexibility slowly to get lower and lower, and if it still doesn't work, you have the option to not go to parallel or to try alternative exercises; it's just not worth it to mess up the knees.

[Built]

Gez, do you mean raising the heel with plates under them?

I think this is very individual. I ALWAYS do my squats this way - it helps me hit my quads. I've heard opinions all over the map on heel elevation, and I really think this is one of those YMMV kind of things. For me, it's not flexibility, it's just personal geometry.

I do think the knee thing is worth keeping in mind, though, and your advise to watch it is prudent - don't do anything that doesn't feel right.

[suleika]

Yes, I meant raising the heel with plates. Like every "rule" there are exceptions; my best guess is, let's say, that more people do it than should, but that some can do it fine!

If you're not sure about it, don't.

I would advise a beginner to keep squatting without, not necessarily going as low as they would like, until they are very comfortable with reasonable weights (above 30 kilos or so). By then they might have increased their flexibility enough to go lower, especially if they have concentrated on this as a goal, but if they haven't, they could try the ankle plates using a somewhat lower weight for a few careful reps, paying extremely close attention to the knees.

The problem with this kind of knee stress is that it's one of those slow-to-show problems, as far as I understand it.

[Meg_S]

this elevating the heel thing is something that I've thought about for a long time... I do squats both ways and always wonder about it. WITH the elevation, I find it easy to keep my knees from going past my feet, without - my stance has to widen considerably, and my knees 1) go further than I think they perhaps should and 2) they're a lot further in than my feet are because of the wide stance. I don't think this is correctable (by much) because of my body structure.

Generally I just do them both, and when something starts hurting I stop and switch up with lunges and stiff leg DL's etc. I find Lunges do more for my lower body *shape* anyway. (personal image point of view here only) But like the feeling of fitness that squats give.

[tholian8]

I used to squat with my heels elevated, and achieved some respectable poundages that way--but since I switched to flat-footed, I feel a lot stronger through the whole lift. I'm not yet back to what I used to lift with heel plates, but I am damned close and expect to blast through my old personal best in a few weeks.

But yes, I had to go to a wider stance--not as wide as most powerlifting-style squats, but definitely headed that direction.

One interesting thing; my nagging post-squat knee soreness was not nearly as severe with the wider, flat-footed version.

Emily

[bubu]

Might I suggest the initial squat be done with Dumbells watching proper form in a mirror, ie straight stance/look with the evil eye on the knee not to go over the feet. I feel that that is a more controlled centered move to build balance compared to the barbell. Followed by a DB squats on a box which gives the extra follow thru at the bottom..then to one legged squats with dumbells on to barbells....Just a suggestion as it worked for me.

[Amzippity]

Hmm... Interesting thoughts on the heel plates. It sounds like everyone has different results and I should really pay attention to my knees. I dont have the greatest knees in the first place. I really liked how much lower I could go with raised heels and my form seemed better. When I was flat footed, I had a hard time even getting to parrallel, never mind past it. Maybe it's a strength issue?

I find the raised heels to be a very natural position since when I normally squat down to pick something up, or clean something off the floor in a squatted position, my heels are raised off the floor. I find that when they're flat it's more unnatural. Then again, when I squat in a household-situation, my knees move past my toes which they dont when I'm squatting at the gym.

Are my knees somethign that I ought to just pay attention to since everyone seems different in this regard?

BTW, I have wide hips and long legs and I do find that I need a wide stance when I'm flat footed. It almost seems that the most comfortable stance is too wide.

[Built]

I really think the "raised heel" think comes down to personal geometry. I like it better and find it less strain on my knees. Others find it harder on their knees. Ultimately, you'll just have to carefully experiment with it to see which way works for you, and it sounds like you might be one of those who finds their balance improves a bit with elevated heels.

Proper lifting shoes actually have a somewhat elevated heel, so I don't think the practice is all that unnatural, but it IS really individual.

[red1cutie]

I tried the heel plates thing yesterday. It felt comforatble but I have no problem squatting low without the plates but then I don't squat that much. I did look up this time though. Thanks for the advice everyone.

red

[AZNemesis]

you can always check out Built's log, page 1 too see her transformation...or strip naked and run down the street....one of those should motivate you.


LMAO! There's no way im gonna run down the street naked..now i would run down the street following a sexy naked man hehe.


Neme

[Amzippity]

Yesterday I did the first set of squats using plates as heel lifts, then the second and third sets with no plates and flat heels. I couldn't go down as far with flat heels, but I felt more stable. I think this had more to do with me not being used to squats yet, then due to the heel lifts. My quads feel like they could lift more weight than just the bar, but I think the rest of my muscles need to catch up!
I'll be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on the heel lifts and I'll experiment with it again once I have my squatting form down pat.

[tholian8]

My quads feel like they could lift more weight than just the bar, but I think the rest of my muscles need to catch up!
That's possible. The lower back is sometimes behind in strength, especially if you've been using machines up to this point, and even if you've been doing a lower back machine. It's more a matter of your nervous system getting used to the squat, believe it or not. Barbell squatting is a whole body lift and that's very different than a machine-based lift. It takes about four workouts to get used to it. Once that's done you can start putting the weights up and you might be surprised how much you can lift.

[Dylan]

You might want to try using an exercise ball as well. Place it in the small of your back and up against a wall. Shoulders back, feet shoulder width apart, make sure your knees dont go over the toes etc.... This will help develop the full squat much better! Trust me, also..... incorpoate weights later on....You can still get maximum benefits from just using your body weight! Hope this helps.

[Amzippity]

Tholian - what do you mean by the nervous system getting used to the squat? Would there be anything that I would feel that would let me know if this is the case? I'm just curious.
I think my butt needs to catch up, too! After the squats and lunges on Tuesday, my glutes still are sore! (I think that's more from lunges than squats, though!)

[tholian8]

Tholian - what do you mean by the nervous system getting used to the squat?
A significant percentage of strength increase, especially for women, is what's called "neural adaptation." What this means is simply that your nervous system learns to be more efficient as it directs your body through the lift. Your lifting mechanics get better. And even a tiny improvement in neuro-muscular coordination can produce an impressive jump in strength without actually adding muscle.

Would there be anything that I would feel that would let me know if this is the case? I'm just curious.

Nope, it goes on behind the scenes. You'll feel the lifts get easier, is all.

E.

[red1cutie]

I know how you feel. I know my legs can squat more. The problem is I don't have the strength to lift the bar to my shoulders so I'm stuck at 40lb squats.

red

[Meg_S]

!GRRRRRR!!!!!! Hey I am in the same situation :) I'm at 40 lb squats because I feel comfortable hefting that weight around in my living room. (I do overhead squats) I tried over 50 and felt unsafe bringing the bar up and down. Maybe my whole body just has to be stronger.

On a positive note for the squatters who want more weight... can you do pistols? They're a challenge even if you can squat heavy!! I'm a long way off.

[liftnlady]

one thing you can do if you are limited by weight...is to do them super slow, use a 6 count to go down 1 count pause at the bottom and a 6 count to go up, this will increase the time under tension on your muscles.

[red1cutie]

I almost gave myself a concussion with the 40lb barbell. I banged my forehead with it in May/June. So I'm extra careful now.

Meg, what are pistols? How do you do the overhead squats. Is the bar straight above your head?

one thing you can do if you are limited by weight...is to do them super slow, use a 6 count to go down 1 count pause at the bottom and a 6 count to go up, this will increase the time under tension on your muscles. Good idea Lift!

red

[KathyD]

almost gave myself a concussion with the 40lb barbell. I banged my forehead with it in May/June. So I'm extra careful now.

Meg, what are pistols? How do you do the overhead squats. Is the bar straight above your head?


Perhaps pistols are dumbbells????


Couldn't you just hold the dumbbells by your sides for these or is that bad for balance?

[Meg_S]

Pistols are 1 leg squats.
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm

I've started them by doing them down onto a low chair - like box squats. I can't go further at a decent (slow) speed and maintain control and balance.
The first time I tried them onto the chair, I only did a few with each leg, as a test run... and for the next few days my glutes (maximus) were very sore, like the kind of sore that is DEEP and lasts.

[diemde]

Wow! Those look very hard. I like the notion that it helps with balance, coordination and fear of falling, though... areas where I have issues. Something for me to try once I get to goal weight. I still have a long way to go with the regular squats. :lol:

[KathyD]

Pistols are 1 leg squats.
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm

I've started them by doing them down onto a low chair - like box squats. I can't go further at a decent (slow) speed and maintain control and balance.
The first time I tried them onto the chair, I only did a few with each leg, as a test run... and for the next few days my glutes (maximus) were very sore, like the kind of sore that is DEEP and lasts.
Boy I missed that by a mile!!!!!

These look very interesting.....

Might be something to incorporate later, Certainly qualifies as an advanced movement!

[Amzippity]

A significant percentage of strength increase, especially for women, is what's called "neural adaptation." What this means is simply that your nervous system learns to be more efficient as it directs your body through the lift. Your lifting mechanics get better. And even a tiny improvement in neuro-muscular coordination can produce an impressive jump in strength without actually adding muscle.


Tholian -
I think my body is adapting. I did squats today for the 3rd time. Previously, I was doing 3 sets of 8ish but today I could get up to 12 on each set and I was only struggling on the last couple reps of the 3rd set. My body feels more comfortable thoughout the motion which was a limiting factor before. Now I just have to focus on keeping my weight over my heels - my feet keep wanting to raise onto my toes. (I find I've been more comfortable not using heel lifts - now my feet just have to get the message!)
I think I'll use just the bar one more time and see how I feel. THen I think I'll be able to add on some weight! yay!
I did find that my lunges suffered after doing more squats. hmm... now my lunges just have to catch up! (and boy, do I hate lunges)