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nobimbo
Mon, Jun-14-04, 05:06
The Atkins Ornish South Beach Zone Diet
Dr. Dean Ornish offers a diet everyone can agree on
By DEAN ORNISH, M.D.

Sunday, Jun. 13, 2004
One of the most encouraging developments to come out of the TIME/ABC News Summit on Obesity earlier this month was an emerging consensus among nutrition experts about what constitutes a healthy diet. Here, one of America's most prominent diet gurus summarizes key points of agreement.

As a veteran of the diet wars, I think it's time to call a truce. Rather than hear experts argue, most people want practical information they can use. Significant points of difference persist, but there is a real convergence of ideas happening and more consensus than many realize.

For example, I have become more mindful of the importance of limiting the intake of simple or refined carbohydrates ("bad carbs") such as sugar and white flour than I was when I began doing cardiac research 27 years ago. Likewise, the Atkins acolytes have started to highlight the importance of eating more fruits and vegetables ("good carbs") rather than emphasize bacon and Brie. Meanwhile, the American Heart Association recently revised its guidelines to include the considerable benefits of omega-3 fatty acids.

So, where do most of us agree?

1. AVOID TRANS-FATTY ACIDS AND PARTLY HYDROGENATED FATS ("BAD FATS"). They increase the shelf life of food products but decrease the shelf life of people who eat them.

2. CONSUME SOME OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS EVERY DAY ("GOOD FATS"). Only three grams a day may reduce your risk of sudden cardiac death as much as 50% to 80%, lower your triglycerides, reduce inflammation (e.g., arthritis) and may help prevent cancer. You can eat fish — including salmon, mackerel and halibut — or take fish-or flaxseed-oil capsules from which contaminants have been removed.

3. EAT FEWER "BAD CARBS" LIKE SUGAR AND WHITE FLOUR. They are low in fiber, so you get a double whammy: a lot of calories that don't fill you up and, because such carbs are absorbed quickly, a blood-sugar spike and an insulin surge, causing you to gain weight.

4. EAT MORE "GOOD CARBS" LIKE FRUITS, VEGETABLES, LEGUMES AND UNREFINED GRAINS SUCH AS WHOLE-WHEAT FLOUR AND BROWN RICE. They are rich in fiber, which slows absorption and fills you up before you take in too many calories.

5. CALORIES COUNT. It's not low fat vs. low carb. You can eat fewer calories by eating less food — which is why you can lose weight on any diet that restricts entire categories of foods or limits portion sizes — but you may get hungry and gain it back. Fat has 9 calories per gram, but protein and carbohydrates have only 4 calories per gram, so when you eat less fat, you consume fewer calories without having to eat less food. So eat less fat and fewer simple carbs.

6. WHAT YOU INCLUDE IN YOUR DIET IS AS IMPORTANT AS WHAT YOU EXCLUDE. There are at least a thousand substances that help protect against chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer. With few exceptions, those protective substances are found in good carbs such as fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes.

7. LOSE WEIGHT IN A WAY THAT ENHANCES HEALTH RATHER THAN HARMS IT. You can lose weight by smoking cigarettes or taking such stimulants as amphetamines, fen phen and ephedra, but they are not healthful ways of doing so.

8. ENERGY BALANCE IS IMPORTANT. You lose weight when you burn more calories (exercise) than you consume.

9. EXERCISE MORE. Simple changes like taking the stairs, parking a little farther away and walking 30 min. a day can make a difference. Small increases can lead to big improvements over time.

10. EAT LESS RED MEAT. Dr. Atkins may have disagreed, but it's loaded with artery-clogging saturated fat and has been linked to an increased risk of cancer.

11. BEGIN BY MAKING MODERATE CHANGES IN YOUR DIET. IF YOU WANT TO LOWER YOUR CHOLESTEROL LEVEL OR WEIGHT EVEN MORE OR IF YOU HAVE HEART DISEASE AND WANT TO REVERSE IT, YOU MAY NEED TO MAKE BIGGER CHANGES.

12. TALK TO SUPPLIERS. Encourage foodmakers and restaurants to make it convenient and pleasurable to eat more healthfully.

13. CHOOSE QUALITY OVER QUANTITY. Smaller portions of good foods are more satisfying than larger portions of junk foods, especially if you pay attention to what you're eating.

You have a wide range of dietary choices; it's not all or nothing. If you go on a diet and feel constrained, you are more likely to drop it. But if you see your food choices each day as part of a spectrum, then you are more likely to feel free and empowered. If you indulge yourself one day, you can eat more healthfully the next. To the degree you move in a healthful direction on the food spectrum, you're likely to feel better, lose weight and gain health.

Dr. Ornish, director of the Preventive Medicine Research Institute, is the author of Eat More, Weigh Less and other best sellers

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040621-650746-2,00.html

ellemenno
Mon, Jun-14-04, 05:54
Wow. Ornish wrote this? My only major disagreement is #10 (of course). I don't really like #4 much, either, but people do need to eat more green vegetables. I'm especially pleased with the first point he makes, as that is really the most important lesson to learn.

Nice find, nobimbo! :D

bluesmoke
Mon, Jun-14-04, 07:44
A white flag from Ornish, must be book sales are down. Nyah Levi

Paris
Mon, Jun-14-04, 07:49
Count me as another surprised that Ornish wrote this... hmmm.

ewert
Mon, Jun-14-04, 08:41
So, where do most of us agree?

So far so good, almost as if finally joining the evil Lowcarb-side.

1-4.

All good.

5. CALORIES COUNT. It's not low fat vs. low carb. You can eat fewer calories by eating less food — which is why you can lose weight on any diet that restricts entire categories of foods or limits portion sizes — but you may get hungry and gain it back. Fat has 9 calories per gram, but protein and carbohydrates have only 4 calories per gram, so when you eat less fat, you consume fewer calories without having to eat less food. So eat less fat and fewer simple carbs.

*doink* Starts good, but then strikes out to hit lowcarbers by alluring to the silly 9kcal/4kcal per gram notion. And the "simple carbs" pothole tripping too. Protein shouldn't even ever be considered as a caloric intake: you won't be using it for _energy_ (most of the time). Whereas calories do count, saying to eat less fat (meaning more "good carbs", no mention of adding protein intake) will skew the whole dingaling back into swooping sugar blues and the accompanying insulin&other hormonal distress.

6. WHAT YOU INCLUDE IN YOUR DIET IS AS IMPORTANT AS WHAT YOU EXCLUDE. There are at least a thousand substances that help protect against chronic diseases like heart disease and cancer. With few exceptions, those protective substances are found in good carbs such as fruits, vegetables, whole grains and legumes.

Oh "few exceptions"? Like umm... vitamins A, D, all the B's? All of those are found much, much easier and in much, much higher concentrations in animal products. *beeb* Of course, the "thousand substances" refers to the yet-so-far-unknown phytonutrients and so forth, which is why we eat veggies a lot of.

7. LOSE WEIGHT IN A WAY THAT ENHANCES HEALTH RATHER THAN HARMS IT. You can lose weight by smoking cigarettes or taking such stimulants as amphetamines, fen phen and ephedra, but they are not healthful ways of doing so.

Again smells like a jab at lowcarbers: fat is evil by his standards _still_.

10. EAT LESS RED MEAT. Dr. Atkins may have disagreed, but it's loaded with artery-clogging saturated fat and has been linked to an increased risk of cancer.

*bzzz* Wrong answer on the sat fat part. As for the cancer risk part, well processed anything is bad... and unfortunately from what I have read, the meat industry in the US is almost as bad as the grain industry in doing a lot of "processing". Or so I hear?

Well... started to look like a peace offering. But then the veiled and not so veiled jabs at lowcarb made me think of another option: luring in readers by seemingly agreeing, but then still bashing the other side with "hidden" jabs.

potatofree
Mon, Jun-14-04, 10:43
Must be really well hidden..how can #7 be a jab at low-carbers?

K Walt
Mon, Jun-14-04, 13:16
Must be really well hidden..how can #7 be a jab at low-carbers?

It's an 'inside' comment. In his talk show and sound-bit spiel, Ornish used to malign low-carbing by comparing it to chemotherapy. "You can lose weight on chemotherapy too, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing."

I guess he realizes his ultra-severe all-vegan approach isn't selling any more. He's not asked for quotes by the media as much, so is trying a different pitch. He's trying not to sound so out there.

Angeline
Mon, Jun-14-04, 15:28
What amazes me is how someone who was so totally off-track has any credibility left at all.

Low fat has been proven to be harmful. Nevermind carbs. There is no disagreement here. Even the brain-washed dietician mob agree. Now they talk about good fats and bat fats (yawn) but even the most die-hard will admit that extremely low-fat is unhealthy because the body needs fat.

His whole diet was centered around eating extremely low-fat. If he was that wrong about it, what else is he wrong about.

That's the question everyone should be asking

322432
Mon, Jun-14-04, 22:10
I have little use for Ornish; he has told too many untruths, has too little understanding of how the digestive system works, and unlike Dr. Atkins, is only interested in furthing his own agenda--he sucks.
Very few of these so called nutritional experts have an open mind for any ideas that are not mainstream. Lets take fiber--it speeds not only itself through the digestive system, but also all of the nutrients and minerals that are attached to it, and that it can absorb, thereby contributing to bone loss by hindering the absorbion of calcium and potassium; who knows whatelse. I believe that one of the main reasons that we feel better on LC is because we are absorbing more of the things that our bodies need and crave. Is it possible that this could affect our appetite? I don't know, but it sure as hell makes sense to me. Also. I have yet to find a study where fiber was the only variable, that proved benificial to health. However, there are several, that show detrimental effects. This is another of the non truths that have been pepetuated by the holier tha thou croud of idiots, like Ornish; when we wre eating all the non essential, health robbing, foods mandated by this group of closed minded dummies, fiber was probably good as it helped us not to absorb as much of this crap. If we eat good wholesome meat and fats along with a few good carbs, and a bit of calcium-( making sure that we get the vitiam D that we need to absorb it) ,we do not need any fiber. This concept makes sense to me, and all of the numbers I have seen from true studies support this.
These kinds of ideas, in deffinate conflict with mainstream lore as was/is Dr. Atkins WOE, is the reason I have no use for these quacks professing to be experts. Either their minds are closed, or not developed enough to comprehend anything different than what it took them so long to learn--probably due to the way they eat!

K Walt
Tue, Jun-15-04, 07:04
I just saw this Ornish guy on the Today show. He basically repeated this whole thing word for word.

Basically he tried pretend he was mainstream, but ended up saying, eat no fat, only fruits and vegetables, and only good carbs. Basically, the same old starchy, sugary, fibery diet he always clucked about.

He also tried to make the point that eating low-calorie, nutrient poor foods lets you eat a lot of food and still lose weight. Sorry, been there, done that, didn't work. I could pack my stomach with grass clippings and potatoes yet STILL be starving an hour later. As if my body knew there was no 'food' in that pile of mulch I ate.

When Ann Curry asked him about the 'red meat' thing, he quacked about studies 'proving' it raised your risk of colon cancer, prostate cancer, and breast cancer. She didn't follow up and ASK him what studies. (There ARE none. In fact, his own fatless, all shrubbery and starch diet did NOTHING for prostate cancer sufferers. There is a published study about that.)

Oh . . and, Ornish wasn't lean. By any standards. He looked a little, well, doughy.

DebPenny
Tue, Jun-15-04, 08:13
I'm either unusual or eating right. I average 10 to 15 grams of fibre a day -- none of it from grain non-foods ;). And I am never constipated. What gives if fibre is so important for that? Personally, I don't believe in the fallacy of the benefits of fibre.

And IMHO, Ornish doesn't deserve the time of my day. I'm just happy my dad is no longer following his plan. Instead, both Mom and Dad are now low-carbing. Yay! :D

GrlyGrl
Tue, Jun-15-04, 09:01
It is low-fat versus low carb!!!!!

What does he mean that now Atkins followers have just seen the light and have added veggies?????? That's how the plan has always been!!!!! Maybe Ornish actually read the book this time.

Ornish is a Quack. I am fat today BECAUSE of Ornish and his low-fat minions. I pledge to eat red meat three times per day just to spite Ornish. The above posts are correct -- his book sales must be down.

Please note how "healthy" Ornish looks -- sunken cheeks, hollow eyes, dry hair, frail, sallow skin, hungry. I think he actually died shortly after publishing his first book but his stubbornness keeps him doing book tours.

Angeline
Tue, Jun-15-04, 11:51
Please note how "healthy" Ornish looks -- sunken cheeks, hollow eyes, dry hair, frail, sallow skin, hungry.

Those are all symptoms of not enough fat in the diet.

PacNW
Wed, Jun-16-04, 10:01
#6 and 10 are off-base, vegan nutcase dogma.

#4 is a problem: "EAT MORE "GOOD CARBS" LIKE FRUITS, VEGETABLES, LEGUMES AND UNREFINED GRAINS SUCH AS WHOLE-WHEAT FLOUR AND BROWN RICE."

I have to agree that #7 is really encoded: "7. LOSE WEIGHT IN A WAY THAT ENHANCES HEALTH RATHER THAN HARMS IT. You can lose weight by smoking cigarettes or taking such stimulants as amphetamines, fen phen and ephedra, but they are not healthful ways of doing so." That all sounds good, but it could equally be interpreted as Ornish saying in code to his nutso, vegan base of support that "Just because people lose weight on Atkins/low carb does not make it any healthier than smoking cigarettes, taking fen phen or ephedra, etc." I may be reading too much into that. Again, the statement itself makes sense. But I would surprised if Ornish did not intend a deeper message to his vegan core constituency.

The list itself is not awful. It is the mouthpiece and the conclusions that he draws from it about a "healthy diet."

To me, this guy remain a turd.

Angeline
Wed, Jun-16-04, 10:51
For years they had wrapped themselves up in a comfort blanket, believing that their ideological diet was also the healtiest diet. No one disputed that.

Now they find their position threatened. Evidence is coming out showing that a vegan diet isn't very healthy. Even worse, that a diet heavy in animal-based protein is healthier.

They just can't stomach it.

Eventually they will re-adjust and will simply focus on the ideological aspect of their diet, which is how it should be. Its "healthy" reputation has no basis on facts. When your entire life is based on a lie, you run the risk of seeing it crumble when that lie is exposed. Better to simply believe yourself morally superior. That's harder to take away :)

mio1996
Wed, Jun-16-04, 11:35
Orinish is just a sell-out. He's trying to get a piece of the lc pie without actually agreeing with lc. He's still just another low fat carbmonger, IMHO.

Angeline
Wed, Jun-16-04, 11:42
You got to love that. Ornish, who was such a vehement opponent to low-carb is now trying to make himself sound, if not exactly low-carb at least neutral. He's going underground!

Ah the irony ....

Nadz
Wed, Jun-16-04, 12:06
It is low-fat versus low carb!!!!!

I'm no Ornish supporter, but he wrote "It's not low fat vs. low carb. " in the context of calories. Even though lo fat and low carbers use different approaches, I think will GENERALLY agree that we should be cognisant of the amount of calories we consume.