normal TSH, but low thyroid symptoms - what now?

[jaykay]

I've just had a set of blood tests done, as a result of severe fatigue. Think the immediate problem was a viral infection. But....
I have low body temps, gain weight the instant I stop running for 30 mins a day, have scaly skin on arms and legs, am permanently tired and always getting viruses and so on. When I read the lists of hypothyroid symptoms, I seem to have the lot.
But my TSH tested very normal, 1.96. So now what do I do. I want my doctor to treat me for hypothyroid because I want some energy back, like I used to be. But how am I going to convince her if my TSH is so normal.
Anyone got any experience?
Am I hypothyroid with such a normal TSH?
I'd really appreciate some help.
Jay

[gym_nut]

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A normal tsh does not always tell the whole story. Your tsh may be normal but u may not have enough of the active thyroid hormone "T3" in your system. T3 is what controls metabolism.
Most Doctors believe that if u are producing T4 it will automatically convert to T3 but it may not do so effectively.
My advise would be to find an unconventional doctor who will be able to test you for free T3.

[jaykay]

Thanks Gym-nut. I'm going to try to make an appointment with my doctor again and see if she'll do those other thyroid tests - we'll see how they turn out.
Take care, Jay

[gym_nut]

JayKay: i hope everything works out for you :)

[josiekat]

Hi Jay,

I know exactly how you feel and what you are going through. I have done the testing and gotten the "you are just getting older" speech. I have the symptoms of hypothyroid and have had them for going on a year and somedays am so frustrated with it all! I hate to say it, but I never ever felt this drained when I was a smoker.....I have heard though that smoking can mask hypothyroidism.....I am off to the doctor again this afternoon......I am hopeful that we can figure something out.....

[jaykay]

Good luck josiekat and thanks gym-nut. I'm at the doctors on Friday morning, fingers crossed she listens.
If not, I'm thinking of getting private tests done or maybe just buying armour thyroid over the internet and taking it and seeing how it goes. I know you have to be careful, but if you keep an eye out for hyper thyroid symtoms, I think it should be possible to manage. After all, its me I want treating not my blood tests and in the 'old' days, doctors would just have had to go on how the patient was feeling.
Hopefully this won't be necessary!
Jay

[Katy131]

Hi Jay

I'm in a similar position re TSH. Mine reads 2 so Drs do not jump up and down at that. Yet I have so many hypo symptoms, I can't remember them all (another hypo symptom!!!) :D

Have you considered trying Virgin Coconut Oil? Check out some threads here about how it helps with hypothyroid symptoms. You can buy it over the internet here in the UK and I've got a friend who found it in a health shop somewhere too. This is a good site to check out for info:

http://www.coconutoil.com/

I haven't been taking it very long, but my body temperature shot up the moment I started taking it and my hands and feet warmed up straight away, so hopefully in time other symptoms will improve. I'd really like to go the "natural" route if I can and avoid "medication" because I really feel the bottom line with the majority of thyroid problems is poor nutrition.

[gym_nut]

JayKay..i hope your doctor is able to find out what is causing your potential hypothyroidism..regarding buying Armour over the internet...IMHO it isnt a good idea because u dont know what type of hypothyroidism u have. Armour Thyroid contains both T4 and T3. You may already be producing T4 and it is not effectively converting into T3. So u might only need T3.
A good idea would be to take your basal temperature first thing in the morning..as soon as u wake up, without getting up. Do this for 5 consecutive days and average out the temperature u get. It should be somewhere around 97.1-97.9. (if its lower ie in the 94-96 range then u can bet u are hypothyroid)
Also if your doctor does not listen to what u say, u can check online for the top thyroid docs in england and there should be a listing...that way u can privately get tests done.
Good luck!

[fluffybear]

Good luck josiekat and thanks gym-nut. I'm at the doctors on Friday morning, fingers crossed she listens.
If not, I'm thinking of getting private tests done or maybe just buying armour thyroid over the internet and taking it and seeing how it goes. I know you have to be careful, but if you keep an eye out for hyper thyroid symtoms, I think it should be possible to manage. After all, its me I want treating not my blood tests and in the 'old' days, doctors would just have had to go on how the patient was feeling.
Hopefully this won't be necessary!
JayAs one who has had hypothyroidism for many years, I strongly urge you to NOT self-treat yourself. It is possible to have a heart attack from taking too much thyroid harmone. You need to get a second or third opinion. Just because you are tired and/or overweight does NOT mean you have thyroid problems. It could be caused by something else. Has your blood been tested for anemia or a vitamin deficiency? You need to get at least one or possible two other opinions from other doctors. Again, I strongly urge you NOT to self-treat yourself.

[jaykay]

I know it's dodgy Fluffybear, but I'm getting desperate. I've just been to the doctors. She stated, quite baldly, after I'd given her my whole list of symptoms, that they weren't related, that I wasn't hypothyroid because my TSH was normal, that my lifestyle is the problem and I need treating for depression!
Well - I know the difference. I was depressed 11 years ago, following my marriage breakup. I fight SAD every winter. I am not depressed, in fact, apart from feeling so **** ill I am pretty happy. The doc. says that I'm probably not as happy as I think I am????
Anyway, she has agreed to do some more blood tests. Please let these come back showing something cos otherwise I'm sunk.
How is it doctors are quite prepared to treat you for stress and depression (neither of which I am suffering from) but won't listen about a whole range of symptoms that point to hypothyroid.
When my blood was tested, they did check for anaemia, and liver, kidney function, white blood cells and so on, all of which were normal. As was blood sugar (of course, since I low carb).
The way doctors go on, you'd get stressed and depressed from dealing with them.
What on earth do I do now?

[Bernadine]

Hi Jay,
I had my thyroid test come back normal with my regular doc. At the time I couldn't get through the day. I would come home from work at lunch and take a nap, then get through the rest of the work day only to come home and take a nap. It was horrible. My doc said I was depressed because I had lost my mom in 99 then 9 months later my step dad died.. He gave me something for depression. I took it one day,,my heart was racing.. I hated it. I decided to seek a alternative medicine doc with a MD.
He put me on Armour and it was like night and day.. I felt so much better...so please get a second opinion.

[Wickedways]

HMmm I could have written this;

' I've just been to the doctors. She stated, quite baldly, after I'd given her my whole list of symptoms, that they weren't related, that I wasn't hypothyroid because my TSH was normal, that my lifestyle is the problem and I need treating for depression!'

Any updates Jay?

Hope you worked it out.

[jaykay]

Yeh, wickedways. I pushed for them to test T$ and T3, despite my TSH being normal. And lo and behold, with a TSH of 2.66 (which might be 'normal' but in my opinion suggests something is going on) my T3 was below normal (my T4 was low but in the normal range). So now I've got thyroxine. It's not making too much difference yet but not necessarily got to the right dose yet.
My original doc told me my symptoms were not related, I was probably depressed (no lady, I've been there, I know that one and currently, I am not!).
I deliberatetly went to see someone else in the same practice and got someone a bit more inclined to investigate.
Keep persisting, hope you get somewhere, all the best, Jay

[Deshukel]

OK here's one for you. My body temp is 97 even in the middle of the day. I carry around extra weight. I low carb, I exercise.
My doctors keep saying my thyroid is normal.

I looked at my tests from '02 and my TSH was .32

just had labs drawn again a week or two ago and they said I have HYPER throidism....

What??? i AM CONFUSED!

They are sending my to an ENDO. Hopefully they will find something.

[jaykay]

Hi Deshukel,
Well I'm no endocrinologist, but that is strange! Did they just test the TSH or free T4 and T3 too? It was the latter two tests that showed up why I had hypothyroid symptoms.
Here's a guess, it may not be scientifically correct.
If you produce T4 normally, but don't convert it to T3 (the active stuff) maybe the T4 builds up. Then the feedback loop to the TSH turns the TSH down, cos it thinks you've got enough T4. But since its the T3 that does the job, you would still have the hypothyroid symptoms you describe.
What I'm not sure about it whether its T3 or T4 which provides the feedback loop with TSH. If its T4 my theory might work, if its T3, then it doesn't.
Hope you get to see the endo soon, cos they will know.
All the best, Jay

[Deshukel]

I am going to see the endo in two weeks, I will definitely have them check T3 and 4. Thanks for the help.

How are you doing JayKay?

[Paulie-M]

Hi Jay,

I have had 4 operations on my thyroid over the years, and as such only have a tiny piece left. My test results came back 'within normal levels" time after time, but I just didn't feel "right" in myself. I always mentioned this to the Prof at the hospital and about 3 years ago, when my tests had come back as "normal" again, I again mentioned it. This time though, he told me that they had been doing research and had found that some people, even though their results were in the "normal range" actually needed more thyroxine to function at their best.I was told to immediately double the dosage of thyroxine. I now take 175mcg daily, compared with 75 mcg I was taking a few years ago. At one point last year I was on 225mcg as my TSH levels went completely to pot.

I would keep at your doctor and let him know that your levels may show "normal" but you certainly don't feel it.

Good luck.

[jaykay]

Thanks for all the support Paulie. In fact my T3 levels were below normal and they've given me thyroxine (T4) but I don't feel better. I know its a slow process and I've only been on it a couple of months. But I've felt I'll so long I can't keep going on like this. I'm going to go back and hassle for Armour and if not that, T3 and a referral to an endo, the ThyroidUK forum recommended one fairly near me.
This forum is so good, it gives you the courage to keep going and fight if necessary.
Take care all, Jay

[Da Rosa]

Im so so confused. I just got all the reults from my test back and it was all normal... I just wana cry.

I have all the hypothyroid symptomes, Im constantly gaining weight, Im also tired, I have major mood swings (I can go from LOL to a death panic or just a cry in just like * that...like now), cronic constipation, losing lottsof hair, I havent had my period i 12 months now and ... did I mention I just keep on gaining weight? and I just found this:

Food and Drugs that Suppress

Certain foods, most notably soy, have been linked to the development of hypothyroid problems, but this controversy remains unresolved. I suspect the soy-hypothyroid link is quite strong when large amounts of soy have been consumed on a prolonged basis. Certain foods, i.e., cabbage, kale, kohlrabi, rutabaga, cauliflower, mustard greens, radishes, broccoli, brussel sprouts, corn, peas, lima beans, sweet potatoes, cassava, sorghum, apricots, prunes, walnuts, cherries, almonds and bamboo shoots contain goitrogens (thyroid suppressants) and/or pro-goitrogens (thyroid stimulants) which, though they probably do not adversely affect those with optimal thyroid function, it may affect those that have been diagnosed with thyroid disease if they are habitually consumed, therefore, it is vitally important to rotate your food choices on a daily basis.

Source: http://www.hum.org/sluggish_thyroid.html


Grrrr... this is exaactly what I have been eating (except the soy, fruites, beans and potato offcouirse). I use the my almonds as "flour" now b/c I always tend to binge on them, I love to do all kinds of lovely meals with the cauliflower and the broccoli and I just resently finished eating bamboo... I ate all this stuff today!!
Oooh, I guess my whole day is just a total messup. I thoughd I was being very good today, not eating fruite, not binging on almonds. :help: What can a hypo eat?!

OMG, no spinach eather?!?! I just found this:
Nutrition:

Foods that depress thyroid activity are broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, kale, spinach, turnips, soy, beans, and mustard greens. These foods should be included in the diet for hyperthyroid conditions and avoided for hypothyroid conditions.
• Avoid refined foods, sugar, dairy products, wheat, caffeine, alcohol.
• Essential fatty acids are anti-inflammatory and necessary for hormone production. Take 1,000 to 1,500 mg flaxseed oil three times per day.
• Calcium (1,000 mg per day) and magnesium (200 to 600 mg per day) help many metabolic processes function correctly.

Source: http://healingdeva.com/thyroid.htm

Do you think that green beans is one of these foods.. I hope not. :confused:

I really think I might have a sluggish thyroid, I asked the nurse if it couldnt be that the hormones vary and she said that could be a possebilety. One symtome that I dont fel to much (or as mush as most of you do) is the cold temp. When another doc tested me three yasr ago in Ecuador he said my levels where ok, but that I wasnt far away from getting it. I weighed about 190lb then so he put me on levothyroxine and duromin... I list about 30 in a two moths period but then when I had used up all the medication and I was back in Sweden I gained 20 lb back.

The only testst that are yet not done are some testostorone and "women hormones" (<--nurses words).... she said they have nothing to do with the thyroid and that my thyroid is normal. How can it be that I am the only (female) one that doesnt have this. Everyone (female) on my mothers side does.

Hwlp! What do I do now?? Im soo angry, fustrated ans just sad. Do I really just have to accept Ill never be thin... ever?!

[jaykay]

Hi Da Rosa,
Just want to send you some hugs to start with, you sound like you're having a really hard time.
Did the docs give you the numbers of your tests or just tell you they were normal?
What did they test. TSH? Free T4, Free T3? Thyroid antibodies.
If they only did TSH, that can be normal and you can still be hypothyroid - your symptoms do sound like that.
My TSH is 'normal' (though too high in my opinion) but its my T3 - the active stuff - which is low.

You have done some good research about foods - I didn't know about almonds and I eat them every day, as I use them for flour and make biscuits that I eat with coffee.
Oh - better stop that then.

Can you try going back to your docs (or just ringing up the receptionist?) and getting more details of what they tested.
Hope you find some answers, talk soon, Jay

[Da Rosa]

Hi JayKay!
Thanks for the hugs, Im really needing some right now b/c Im ot getting anything from home. All they can say is "now you HAVE to do low carb, fat AND calorie" and they just keep on about how much I eat. Its not that I eat alot, I eat often... 4-6 times incuding snacks, my calories are at 1500-1800/day and I dont want to go much lower b/c I have heard that for a hypo thats a no-no, I used to do all kinds of lowcal/LC diets and fast that has messed my metabolism up... I instead gained 20lb this summer from binging after so restrictive diets and just eating the wrong foods. Now I just want to maintain and Im making an attempt to addapt my body to 40-60 to lose or maintaine... Im not giving up!

Yes, they did do the TSH, Free 3T and Free 4T all "normal" (?!). What I plan to get a copy of the test and show it all to y'all. I suspect that they want you to be close to having canser berore they wanna give you any medications b/c the healthcare here is public, our 30%paycheck (if you earn more you pay more, much more!) tax payS for it, but they still wanna be cheap! I wil also insist on gettingh regulular checkups for my thyroid and if they wont give me what Ill pay form my own empty pockets for a private doctor to give me some real help.

I have an apointmen this thursday with the doctor, she will probrably put me on some other hormone treament (the nurse said this) to get my TOM started, but Im kinda afraid to how that will affect the hypo. I hope it doesnt backfire on me, I suspect that the hormone treatment is gonna mess me upp and make me gaine MORE weight.. as hormones usually do.

Thank you so much for caring yall!... it feel good to have the second oppinions.

[Katy131]

Hi Da Rosa
:wave:
Hugs from me too!

When you say you haven't had the cold temperature, do you mean you don't feel cold or that you have taken your basal body temperatures daily and found them to be normal? You won't necessarily feel cold (although many do) if you have low bbts, but low bbts are definitely a sign that something is wrong.

I suggest you look into food supplementation to support your thyroid and perhaps help it to heal without meds from the Dr, as they are unable to help. I've found positive results from taking Virgin Coconut Oil and supplementing with a good multi vit with iodine, selenium, zinc and all the B vits, together with l-tyrosine and high EPA tabs. Try checking out the thyroid sites for more info, and try monitoring your bbt (taken first thing in the morning) for a month. Here's a couple of good sites on that subject:

http://www.drrind.com/tempgraph.asp

http://www.biodynamics.be/noframes/e_000110.html

http://www.healthythyroid.com/

I have noticed definite improvement - my eyebrow is growing back and my bbts have warmed up by several degrees on average. I'm hoping weight will start to come off soon, too.

Above all, try not to get too discouraged; if the Drs can't help, then you can help yourself, with help from us too! :D :agree: :cool: