The efficacy of whey & soy protein isolate/concentrate powders

[Chad C.]

Hi folks,

In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered today
I see many use whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate.
Is the human body able to use the proteins in these dry
powders as well as if it came from real whole foods? Naturally
I mix it with water and so forth before ingesting, but I'm
just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some way
by the process used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I
would greatly appreciate anecdotes, comments, theory and
empirical evidence/studies if any such exist.

<rambling> If you wish to tailor your advice to help me or
offer any additional comments, please consider my position.
I'm working out lightly-moderately right now to build muscle
mass. This is the first time in my life that I'm actually
seriously, methodically working out; I also aim to lose about
10 pounds of body fat. Generally I consume over 100% of the
RDA of Calcium, so I'm not too worried about large amounts of
protein causing me kidney problems. If left to my own devices,
on a typical day, with the foods that I eat (cheese,
sugar-free yogurt w/ 1/4 cup random berries & splenda, chicken
sausage, low-carb high-fiber bread, peanut butter, brocolli
seasoned with salt & potassium, apples, oranges, amongst other
various, usually whole real foods) I would consume roughly 60g
of protein, I think encompassing pretty much all essential
amino acids. I also consume TwinLabs Dual-tabs multivitamin w/
minerals twice daily, about 450mg of DHA & 300mg of EPA (I
think I have that order right) in 3 fish oil caplets, 1gram
extra Vitamin C, gamma-complex Vitamin E, an aspirin every
other day, St. John's Wort (approximately 1 gm of it). I'm
thinking about phasing out the Vitamin C and supplanting it
with Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine, since I get
about 400mg of C in the two multivitamins together, and a lot
more in the other foods that I eat too. Alpha Lipoic Acid and
Acetyl L-Carnitine are however very expensive. I need to find
a cheap source for these that still preserves the therapeutic
values. Etc. I'm also considering adding some extra Selenium.
Anything obvious I've left out of interest? </rambling>

Thank you for your time folks,

-Chad

[William A.]

"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi folks,
> > In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> > today I see
many use
> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the human
> body able to
use
> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came from
> real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth
> before ingesting, but
I'm
> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some
> way by the
process
> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> greatly appreciate anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> evidence/studies if any such exist.
>
> <rambling> If you wish to tailor your advice to help me or
> offer any additional comments, please consider my position.
> I'm working out lightly-moderately right now to build muscle
> mass. This is the first time in my life that I'm actually
> seriously, methodically working out; I also aim to lose
> about 10 pounds of body fat. Generally I consume over 100%
> of the RDA of Calcium, so I'm not too worried about large
> amounts of protein causing me kidney problems. If left to my
> own devices, on a typical day, with the foods that
I
> eat (cheese, sugar-free yogurt w/ 1/4 cup random berries

Berries provide really powerful antioxidants.

>& splenda, chicken sausage,

I won't eat either.

>low-carb high-fiber bread, peanut butter,

peanuts and peanut butter aren't quite an ideal food
especially the brands containing hydrogenated oils.

> brocolli seasoned with salt & potassium, apples, oranges,
> amongst other various, usually whole
real
> foods) I would consume roughly 60g of protein, I think
> encompassing pretty much all essential amino acids. I
> also consume TwinLabs Dual-tabs multivitamin w/ minerals
> twice daily,

I hope the formula doesn't contain iron.

> about 450mg of DHA & 300mg of EPA (I think I have that order
> right) in 3 fish oil caplets, 1gram extra Vitamin
C,
> gamma-complex Vitamin E, an aspirin every other day, St.
> John's Wort

Why are you taking St. John's wort? Generalized Anxiety
Disorder or panic attacks? If it is the latter, you likely be
much better off with high dose inositol, IMHO. If it is the
former, the inositol might still be worth a personal trial.

> (approximately 1 gm of it). I'm thinking about phasing out
> the Vitamin C
and
> supplanting it with Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl
> L-Carnitine, since I get about 400mg of C in the two
> multivitamins together, and a lot more in the other foods
> that I eat too.

I like to take my b-12 separate from my vitamin C as vitamin C
is said to destroy B-12. I have my doubts whether this valid.

> Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine are however very
> expensive.

Sources vary in price. Bulk carnitine powder can save money as
compared to the tablet forms.

> I need to find a cheap source for these that still preserves
> the therapeutic values. Etc. I'm also considering adding
> some extra Selenium.

200 mcgs of Se is a good choice.

> Anything obvious I've left out of interest?

My hobby horses are below.

Do you work indoors? Do you live at latitude were you are
inside during the cold season. Are you dark skinned and living
in Seattle? I'd suggest a vitamin D supplement of at least
1000 IUs of vitamin D3 (not D2). Even the reactionary
Consumers Union now recommends a D supplement of this size. I
don't recall that they made the suggestion to modulate the
dose per the amount of sunlight exposure.....I do. During the
months of November, December, January, and Febuary I take 4000
IUs. Yes, I know this is twice the so-called Upper Limit but
it is too low. Moreover, to be safe I modulate supplement use
per the amount of sunlight I receive. Mid-day sun is more
effective in the synthesis of vitamin D3. There is reason to
believe this would help prevent as much as 90% of prostate
cancers. Add this to the the Se and the high gamma E
supplements and you'll have greatly reduced your chances of of
prostate cancer,
IMO.

The broccoli is a good choice. Try to get 500 mcgs of vitamin
K in diet as the effort will yeild a much improved status as
regards the carotenoids such as lutein. The higher levels of K
will help prevent ectopic calcifications and make for strong
bones, IMO and the opinion of others.

I suggest considering additional folic acid, ubiquinone aka
coQ-10, a generous vitamin K supplement as it is a powerful
quinone antioxidant. Pine bark extract or grape seed extracts
seem like good choices.

> </rambling>
>
> Thank you for your time folks,
>
> -Chad

[Peter Webb]

"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com...
> Hi folks,
>
> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> today I see many
use
> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the human
> body able to
use
> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came from
> real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth
> before ingesting, but
I'm
> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some
> way by the
process
> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> greatly appreciate anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> evidence/studies if any such exist.
>

The protein in whey and soy proteins is as good as the highest
quality whole foods. Protein is composed of amino acids which
are essentially pure chemicals, and some quite simple
chemicals at that. That is how your body absorbs in the gut
and uses protein in the body, and that's what you get in
protein powders.

The rest of the stuff you write below is crap. Protein,
vitamins, and either fat or carbs or both, that's all you
need. Selenium? Nobody needs fucking Selenium, you least of
anybody. .

> <rambling> If you wish to tailor your advice to help me or
> offer any additional comments, please consider my position.
> I'm working out lightly-moderately right now to build muscle
> mass. This is the first time in my life that I'm actually
> seriously, methodically working out; I also aim to lose
> about 10 pounds of body fat. Generally I consume over 100%
> of the RDA of Calcium,
so
> I'm not too worried about large amounts of protein causing
> me kidney problems. If left to my own devices, on a typical
> day, with the foods that
I
> eat (cheese, sugar-free yogurt w/ 1/4 cup random berries &
> splenda,
chicken
> sausage, low-carb high-fiber bread, peanut butter, brocolli
> seasoned with salt & potassium, apples, oranges, amongst
> other various, usually whole
real
> foods) I would consume roughly 60g of protein, I think
> encompassing pretty much all essential amino acids. I also
> consume TwinLabs Dual-tabs multivitamin w/ minerals twice
> daily, about 450mg of DHA & 300mg of EPA (I think I have
> that order right) in 3 fish oil caplets, 1gram extra Vitamin
C,
> gamma-complex Vitamin E, an aspirin every other day, St.
> John's Wort (approximately 1 gm of it). I'm thinking about
> phasing out the Vitamin C
and
> supplanting it with Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl
> L-Carnitine, since I get about 400mg of C in the two
> multivitamins together, and a lot more in the other foods
> that I eat too. Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine are
> however very expensive. I need to find a cheap source for
> these that still preserves the therapeutic values. Etc. I'm
> also considering adding some extra Selenium. Anything
> obvious I've left out of interest? </rambling>
>
> Thank you for your time folks,
>
> -Chad

[Chad C.]

"William A. Noyes" <no.address@ctc.net> wrote in message
news:40b85dc2$0$19294$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
>
> >& splenda, chicken sausage,
>
> I won't eat either.

Why not?

>
> >low-carb high-fiber bread, peanut butter,
>
> peanuts and peanut butter aren't quite an ideal food
> especially the brands containing hydrogenated oils.

I use Adams Natural Peanut Butter, the oil separates quite
easily but I don't mind it at all. Why don't you like peanuts?
Which other nut butters are acceptable? I sometimes buy almond
butter. I actually like it more than peanut butter but it's
very expensive in comparison.

>
> > brocolli seasoned with salt & potassium, apples, oranges,
> > amongst other various, usually whole
> real
> > foods) I would consume roughly 60g of protein, I think
> > encompassing
pretty
> > much all essential amino acids. I also consume TwinLabs
> > Dual-tabs multivitamin w/ minerals twice daily,
>
> I hope the formula doesn't contain iron.

Tell me what you think about this: http://www.vitacost.com/s-
tore/products/productdescription.cfm?SKUNumber=027434009089&-
bt=products

I take two daily.

>
> > about 450mg of DHA & 300mg of EPA (I think I have that
> > order right) in 3 fish oil caplets, 1gram extra
Vitamin
> C,
> > gamma-complex Vitamin E, an aspirin every other day, St.
> > John's Wort
>
> Why are you taking St. John's wort? Generalized Anxiety
> Disorder or panic attacks? If it is the latter, you
> likely be much better off with high dose inositol, IMHO.
> If it is the former, the inositol might still be worth a
> personal trial.

I thought it would help my depression, lack of motivation to
implement my goals, etc. It might be helping, or maybe my
improved lifestyle and nutrition has helped, or maybe it's the
placebo effect.

>
> > (approximately 1 gm of it). I'm thinking about phasing out
> > the Vitamin C
> and
> > supplanting it with Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl
> > L-Carnitine, since I
get
> > about 400mg of C in the two multivitamins together, and a
> > lot more in
the
> > other foods that I eat too.
>
> I like to take my b-12 separate from my vitamin C as
> vitamin C is said to destroy B-12. I have my doubts whether
> this valid.
>
> > Alpha Lipoic Acid and Acetyl L-Carnitine are however very
> > expensive.
>
> Sources vary in price. Bulk carnitine powder can save money
> as compared to the tablet forms.

Find me some online and I'll buy it, I don't know which sites
to trust in this regard, or if the products are bioavailable
or whatnot.

>
>
> > I need to find a cheap source for these that still
> > preserves the therapeutic values. Etc. I'm also
> > considering adding some extra Selenium.
>
> 200 mcgs of Se is a good choice.

I get 100mcgs in my multivitamins. Should I supplement more?
Is the Selenium in my multivitamin relatively bio-available? I
tend to consume with something fatty and protein rich.

>
> > Anything obvious I've left out of interest?
>
> My hobby horses are below.
>
> Do you work indoors? Do you live at latitude were you are
> inside during the cold season.

Yeah pretty much.

> Are you dark skinned and living in Seattle?

Light-skinned, Seattle-area.

> I'd suggest a vitamin D supplement of at least 1000 IUs of
> vitamin D3 (not D2).

I could get this in cod liver oil. I'd also get a
whopping amount of highly bioavailable Vitamin A. Would
this do me harm?

> Even the reactionary Consumers Union now recommends a D
> supplement of this size. I don't recall that they made the
> suggestion to modulate the dose per the amount of sunlight
> exposure.....I do. During the months of November,
> December, January, and Febuary I take 4000 IUs. Yes, I
> know this is twice the so-called Upper Limit but it is too
> low. Moreover, to be safe I modulate supplement use per
> the amount of sunlight I receive. Mid-day sun is more
> effective in the synthesis of vitamin D3. There is reason
> to believe this would help prevent as much as 90% of
> prostate cancers. Add this to the the Se and the high
> gamma E supplements and you'll have greatly reduced your
> chances of of prostate cancer,
> IMO.
>
> The broccoli is a good choice. Try to get 500 mcgs of
> vitamin K in diet as the effort will yeild a much improved
> status as regards the carotenoids such as lutein. The higher
> levels of K will help prevent ectopic calcifications and
> make for strong bones, IMO and the opinion of others.
>
> I suggest considering additional folic acid, ubiquinone aka
> coQ-10, a generous vitamin K supplement as it is a powerful
> quinone antioxidant. Pine bark extract or grape seed
> extracts seem like good choices.

I'll do some research on that, and try to find an
inexpensive source.

Thank you for your comments.

>
>
>
> > </rambling>
> >
> > Thank you for your time folks,
> >
> > -Chad
> >
>

[Wolfbrothe]

"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
> Hi folks,
>
> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> today I see many use whey and soy protein isolate and
> concentrate. Is the human body able to use the proteins in
> these dry powders as well as if it came from real whole
> foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth before
> ingesting, but I'm just wondering if the protein hasn't
> been damaged in some way by the process used to isolate it,
> dry it out, and so forth. I would greatly appreciate
> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical evidence/studies
> if any such exist.
>
Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only inferior to
real protein from whole foods it is very unhealthy. Aside
from all the dangers of soy protein just about any form of
isolated protein powder contains MSG. It is not even
listed anywhere yet many protein isolates can be as much
as 30% MSG. I do not know why you feel the need to take
protein powders but there really is absolutely no reason
to ingest such refined unnatural junk.

some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
isolates:

http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm

info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html

list of other processed foods or ingredients besides protein
isolates that cointain MSG:

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm

[Wolfbrothe]

"Peter Webb" <wabbfamilyDIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<40b8a9af$0$8989$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
>
>
> The protein in whey and soy proteins is as good as the
> highest quality whole foods. Protein is composed of amino
> acids which are essentially pure chemicals, and some quite
> simple chemicals at that. That is how your body absorbs in
> the gut and uses protein in the body, and that's what you
> get in protein powders.
>
> The rest of the stuff you write below is crap. Protein,
> vitamins, and either fat or carbs or both, that's all you
> need. Selenium? Nobody needs fucking Selenium, you least of
> anybody. .
>
All of the above are incredibly ignorant statements.

[Chad C.]

What do you think of this William?

http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm-
?SKUNumber=0174&bt=products

Thanks,

-Chad

[Peter Alle]

"Wolfbrother" <rangerhasten@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6eb8f6eb.0405301418.9dde632@posting.google.com...
> "Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> > today I see many
use
> > whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the human
> > body able to
use
> > the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came
> > from real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and
> > so forth before ingesting, but
I'm
> > just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some
> > way by the
process
> > used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> > greatly appreciate anecdotes, comments, theory and
> > empirical evidence/studies if any such exist.
> >
> Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only inferior
> to real protein from whole foods it is very unhealthy.
> Aside from all the dangers of soy protein just about any
> form of isolated protein powder contains MSG. It is not
> even listed anywhere yet many protein isolates can be as
> much as 30% MSG. I do not know why you feel the need to
> take protein powders but there really is absolutely no
> reason to ingest such refined unnatural junk.

Protein powder is a waste of a good opportunity to eat meat,
but not unhealthy. You are full of shit.

Peter

[Pizza Gurl]

Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are
making ignorant statements for telling another what they
write is crap?

"Wolfbrother" <rangerhasten@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6eb8f6eb.0405301308.2159c93@posting.google.com...
> "Peter Webb" <wabbfamilyDIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com> wrote in
> message
news:<40b8a9af$0$8989$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
> >
> >
> > The protein in whey and soy proteins is as good as the
> > highest quality
whole
> > foods. Protein is composed of amino acids which are
> > essentially pure chemicals, and some quite simple
> > chemicals at that. That is how your
body
> > absorbs in the gut and uses protein in the body, and
> > that's what you get
in
> > protein powders.
> >
> > The rest of the stuff you write below is crap. Protein,
> > vitamins, and
either
> > fat or carbs or both, that's all you need. Selenium?
> > Nobody needs
fucking
> > Selenium, you least of anybody. .
> >
> All of the above are incredibly ignorant statements.

[John M . W]

rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:

>"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
>news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
>> today I see many use whey and soy protein isolate and
>> concentrate. Is the human body able to use the proteins in
>> these dry powders as well as if it came from real whole
>> foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth before
>> ingesting, but I'm just wondering if the protein hasn't
>> been damaged in some way by the process used to isolate it,
>> dry it out, and so forth. I would greatly appreciate
>> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical evidence/studies
>> if any such exist.
>>
> Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only inferior
> to real protein from whole foods it is very unhealthy.
> Aside from all the dangers of soy protein just about any
> form of isolated protein powder contains MSG. It is not
> even listed anywhere yet many protein isolates can be as
> much as 30% MSG. I do not know why you feel the need to
> take protein powders but there really is absolutely no
> reason to ingest such refined unnatural junk.
>
>some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
>isolates:
>
> http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
>
>info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
>
>http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
>
>list of other processed foods or ingredients besides protein
>isolates that cointain MSG:
>
>http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm

MSG has negative effects only on those who are hypersensitive.
This has been established through numerous studies. Your links
to neo-hippy health food rants notwithstanding, there is no
realistic risk from MSG for most people. Note that most of the
junk science in the links you cited is from the 1970s, when
such food scares were fashionable amongst the health food
proponents. Try something more recent:

Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S. Review.

As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the phytoestrogens.
Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.

Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing more than a
common superstition amongst the "natural foods" crowd.

[William A.]

<snip>
> Peter Web said: The protein in whey and soy proteins is as
> good as the highest quality
whole
> foods. Protein is composed of amino acids which are
> essentially pure chemicals, and some quite simple chemicals
> at that. That is how your body absorbs in the gut and uses
> protein in the body, and that's what you get
in
> protein powders.
>
> The rest of the stuff you write below is crap. Protein,
> vitamins, and
either
> fat or carbs or both, that's all you need. Selenium? Nobody
> needs fucking Selenium, you least of anybody.

Wrong. The evidence for Se supplementation is rather good if
you are willing to consider the numerous animals studies. It
reduces incidence and slows the onset of various cancers. When
the Doctor surgically excises your cancerous prostate due to
less your than optimal Se levels there is a good chance your
"f**king" days will be over. And if it gets into your bones,
your days will be numbered, few, and painful. I suppose you
can wait until the SELECT study is complete in another ~15
years but by that time you will have accumulated more
mutations in your cells than if you had used Se supplements
and it will be late in game to start Se supplementation.

<snip>

snip, snip................. ...William A. Noyes

[Larry Hodg]

-Larry "John M. Williams"
<jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:ldvkb057dr145aneq7s47vns6tic2ibo7o@4ax.com...
> rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:
>
> >"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> >> today I see
many use
> >> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the
> >> human body able to
use
> >> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came
> >> from real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and
> >> so forth before ingesting, but
I'm
> >> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some
> >> way by the
process
> >> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> >> greatly
appreciate
> >> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> >> evidence/studies if any such exist.
> >>
> > Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only inferior
> > to real protein from whole foods it is very unhealthy.
> > Aside from all the dangers of soy protein just about
> > any form of isolated protein powder contains MSG. It is
> > not even listed anywhere yet many protein isolates can
> > be as much as 30% MSG. I do not know why you feel the
> > need to take protein powders but there really is
> > absolutely no reason to ingest such refined unnatural
> > junk.
> >
> >some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
> >isolates:
> >
> > http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
> >
> >info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
> >
> >http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
> >
> >list of other processed foods or ingredients besides
> >protein isolates that cointain MSG:
> >
> >http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm
>
> MSG has negative effects only on those who are
> hypersensitive. This has been established through numerous
> studies. Your links to neo-hippy health food rants
> notwithstanding, there is no realistic risk from MSG for
> most people. Note that most of the junk science in the links
> you cited is from the 1970s, when such food scares were
> fashionable amongst the health food proponents. Try
> something more recent:
>
> Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
> glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S. Review.
>
> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the phytoestrogens.
> Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.
>
> Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing more than
> a common superstition amongst the "natural foods" crowd.

Word dude. Like, I'm grooving with you on this. Far out and
very much right on.

-Larry

[Team Caldw]

"John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote
in message news:ldvkb057dr145aneq7s47vns6tic2ibo7o@4ax.com...
> rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:
>
> >"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> >> today I see
many use
> >> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the
> >> human body able to
use
> >> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came
> >> from real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and
> >> so forth before ingesting, but
I'm
> >> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in some
> >> way by the
process
> >> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> >> greatly
appreciate
> >> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> >> evidence/studies if any such exist.
> >>
> > Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only inferior
> > to real protein from whole foods it is very unhealthy.
> > Aside from all the dangers of soy protein just about
> > any form of isolated protein powder contains MSG. It is
> > not even listed anywhere yet many protein isolates can
> > be as much as 30% MSG. I do not know why you feel the
> > need to take protein powders but there really is
> > absolutely no reason to ingest such refined unnatural
> > junk.
> >
> >some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
> >isolates:
> >
> > http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
> >
> >info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
> >
> >http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
> >
> >list of other processed foods or ingredients besides
> >protein isolates that cointain MSG:
> >
> >http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm
>
> MSG has negative effects only on those who are
> hypersensitive. This has been established through numerous
> studies. Your links to neo-hippy health food rants
> notwithstanding, there is no realistic risk from MSG for
> most people. Note that most of the junk science in the links
> you cited is from the 1970s, when such food scares were
> fashionable amongst the health food proponents. Try
> something more recent:
>
> Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
> glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S. Review.
>
> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the phytoestrogens.
> Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.
>
> Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing more than
> a common superstition amongst the "natural foods" crowd.

i agree. and i even have a JUICER! :)

btw, muscle milk rools.

in case i didn't make that clear.

whit

[Steve]

Pizza Gurl wrote:
> Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
> ignorant statements for telling another what they write
> is crap?

Yes.

Welcome to misc.fitness.weights

[Larry Hodg]

-Larry "Team Caldwell" <Cal45rt@home.net> wrote in message
news:2hvld3Fho6oaU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> "John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com>
> wrote in message
> news:ldvkb057dr145aneq7s47vns6tic2ibo7o@4ax.com...
> > rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:
> >
> > >"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote in message
> news:<10bfu3tecv1g121@corp.supernews.com>...
> > >> Hi folks,
> > >>
> > >> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
> > >> today I see
> many use
> > >> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the
> > >> human body able
to
> use
> > >> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came
> > >> from real
whole
> > >> foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth
> > >> before ingesting,
but
> I'm
> > >> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in
> > >> some way by the
> process
> > >> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> > >> greatly
> appreciate
> > >> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> > >> evidence/studies if any
such
> > >> exist.
> > >>
> > > Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only
> > > inferior to real protein from whole foods it is very
> > > unhealthy. Aside from all the dangers of soy protein
> > > just about any form of isolated protein powder
> > > contains MSG. It is not even listed anywhere yet many
> > > protein isolates can be as much as 30% MSG. I do not
> > > know why you feel the need to take protein powders
> > > but there really is absolutely no reason to ingest
> > > such refined unnatural junk.
> > >
> > >some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
> > >isolates:
> > >
> > > http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
> > >
> > >info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
> > >
> > >http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
> > >
> > >list of other processed foods or ingredients besides
> > >protein isolates that cointain MSG:
> > >
> > >http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm
> >
> > MSG has negative effects only on those who are
> > hypersensitive. This has been established through numerous
> > studies. Your links to neo-hippy health food rants
> > notwithstanding, there is no realistic risk from MSG for
> > most people. Note that most of the junk science in the
> > links you cited is from the 1970s, when such food scares
> > were fashionable amongst the health food proponents. Try
> > something more recent:
> >
> > Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
> > glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S.
> > Review.
> >
> > As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the
> > phytoestrogens. Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.
> >
> > Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing more
> > than a common superstition amongst the "natural foods"
> > crowd.
>
> i agree. and i even have a JUICER! :)
>
> btw, muscle milk rools.
>
> in case i didn't make that clear.
>
> whit

Spamming juice-making hippie!!!

[John M . W]

"Team Caldwell" <Cal45rt@home.net> wrote:
>"John M. Williams"
><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:
>> >"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi folks,
>> >>
>> >> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes offered
>> >> today I see
>many use
>> >> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the
>> >> human body able to
>use
>> >> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it came
>> >> from real whole foods? Naturally I mix it with water and
>> >> so forth before ingesting, but
>I'm
>> >> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in
>> >> some way by the
>process
>> >> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
>> >> greatly
>appreciate
>> >> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
>> >> evidence/studies if any such exist.
>> >>
>> > Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only
>> > inferior to real protein from whole foods it is very
>> > unhealthy. Aside from all the dangers of soy protein
>> > just about any form of isolated protein powder
>> > contains MSG. It is not even listed anywhere yet many
>> > protein isolates can be as much as 30% MSG. I do not
>> > know why you feel the need to take protein powders but
>> > there really is absolutely no reason to ingest such
>> > refined unnatural junk.
>> >
>> >some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
>> >isolates:
>> >
>> > http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
>> >
>> >info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
>> >
>> >http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
>> >
>> >list of other processed foods or ingredients besides
>> >protein isolates that cointain MSG:
>> >
>> >http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm
>>
>> MSG has negative effects only on those who are
>> hypersensitive. This has been established through numerous
>> studies. Your links to neo-hippy health food rants
>> notwithstanding, there is no realistic risk from MSG for
>> most people. Note that most of the junk science in the
>> links you cited is from the 1970s, when such food scares
>> were fashionable amongst the health food proponents. Try
>> something more recent:
>>
>> Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
>> glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S.
>> Review.
>>
>> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the
>> phytoestrogens. Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.
>>
>> Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing
>> more than a common superstition amongst the "natural
>> foods" crowd.
>
>i agree. and i even have a JUICER! :)
>
>btw, muscle milk rools.
>
>in case i didn't make that clear.

Fookin' body-waxer ...

[Pizza Gurl]

Thanx.

welcome to sci.med.nutrition!

"Steve" <nospam@please.reply.to.group.thanks.com> wrote in
message news:c9e08r01tn6@enews4.newsguy.com...
> Pizza Gurl wrote:
> > Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
> > ignorant statements for telling another what they write
> > is crap?
>
> Yes.
>
> Welcome to misc.fitness.weights

[John M . W]

"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Thanx.
>
>welcome to sci.med.nutrition!

... where the kook factor is even higher than MFW.

[Drs]

"Team Caldwell" <Cal45rt@home.net> wrote in message
news:2hvld3Fho6oaU1@uni-berlin.de
> "John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com>
> wrote in message
> news:ldvkb057dr145aneq7s47vns6tic2ibo7o@4ax.com...

[piggybacking]

>> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the
>> phytoestrogens. Thus, whey protein is generally preferred.

There are other reasons. Will Brink has an interesting essay
on the pros and cons of soy protein on his web site.
http://www.brinkzone.com/soy.html

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Team Caldw]

"John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote
in message news:i6flb0he0it7ldv54vh0oqeo3f6remhqtq@4ax.com...
> "Team Caldwell" <Cal45rt@home.net> wrote:
> >"John M. Williams"
> ><jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >> rangerhasten@yahoo.com (Wolfbrother) wrote:
> >> >"Chad C." <johnkeynesX@Xemail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi folks,
> >> >>
> >> >> In looking at the various protein drinks/shakes
> >> >> offered today I see
> >many use
> >> >> whey and soy protein isolate and concentrate. Is the
> >> >> human body able
to
> >use
> >> >> the proteins in these dry powders as well as if it
> >> >> came from real
whole
> >> >> foods? Naturally I mix it with water and so forth
> >> >> before ingesting,
but
> >I'm
> >> >> just wondering if the protein hasn't been damaged in
> >> >> some way by the
> >process
> >> >> used to isolate it, dry it out, and so forth. I would
> >> >> greatly
> >appreciate
> >> >> anecdotes, comments, theory and empirical
> >> >> evidence/studies if any
such
> >> >> exist.
> >> >>
> >> > Any form of protein isolate/powder is not only
> >> > inferior to real protein from whole foods it is very
> >> > unhealthy. Aside from all the dangers of soy protein
> >> > just about any form of isolated protein powder
> >> > contains MSG. It is not even listed anywhere yet
> >> > many protein isolates can be as much as 30% MSG. I
> >> > do not know why you feel the need to take protein
> >> > powders but there really is absolutely no reason to
> >> > ingest such refined unnatural junk.
> >> >
> >> >some good info here on MSG and its presence in protein
> >> >isolates:
> >> >
> >> > http://eagle.westnet.gr/~aesclep/mg-msg.htm
> >> >
> >> >info on soy protein isolate and soy in general:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/tragedy.html
> >> >
> >> >list of other processed foods or ingredients besides
> >> >protein isolates that cointain MSG:
> >> >
> >> >http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.htm
> >>
> >> MSG has negative effects only on those who are
> >> hypersensitive. This has been established through
> >> numerous studies. Your links to neo-hippy health food
> >> rants notwithstanding, there is no realistic risk from
> >> MSG for most people. Note that most of the junk science
> >> in the links you cited is from the 1970s, when such food
> >> scares were fashionable amongst the health food
> >> proponents. Try something more recent:
> >>
> >> Walker R, Lupien JR. The safety evaluation of monosodium
> >> glutamate. J Nutr. 2000 Apr;130(4S Suppl):1049S-52S.
> >> Review.
> >>
> >> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the
> >> phytoestrogens. Thus, whey protein is generally
> >> preferred.
> >>
> >> Your insistence on "whole food" protein is nothing more
> >> than a common superstition amongst the "natural foods"
> >> crowd.
> >
> >i agree. and i even have a JUICER! :)
> >
> >btw, muscle milk rools.
> >
> >in case i didn't make that clear.
>
> Fookin' body-waxer ...

had that done today.

it still hurts.

:(

whit

[Will Brink]

In article <c9g4nv$j9s$1@lust.ihug.co.nz>,
"DRS" <drs@remove.this.ihug.com.au> wrote:

> "Team Caldwell" <Cal45rt@home.net> wrote in message
> news:2hvld3Fho6oaU1@uni-berlin.de
> > "John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com>
> > wrote in message
> > news:ldvkb057dr145aneq7s47vns6tic2ibo7o@4ax.com...
>
> [piggybacking]
>
> >> As to soy, a lot of people like to avoid the
> >> phytoestrogens. Thus, whey protein is generally
> >> preferred.
>
> There are other reasons. Will Brink has an interesting essay
> on the pros and cons of soy protein on his web site.
> http://www.brinkzone.com/soy.html

That article is a bit dated at this point and I would say if I
wrote it today, I would be a little more negative on the soy
thing, at least for men in high doses.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

[William A.]

"John M. Williams" <jmwilliams@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote
in message news:kiflb0h5msqcib6m4767envgdi099ho9i6@4ax.com...
> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Thanx.
> >
> >welcome to sci.med.nutrition!
>
> ... where the kook factor is even higher than MFW.

My Kooks list for sci.md.nutrition (with mocking and satire)

John Gohde ........ toothless is not posting currently

Mooshe ...........the two-headed flying Australian bovine is
not posting currently.

Mark de Toad..........a wearer of jack boots and ladies (Lizzy
Whelan's) used underwear

Doe..........the iron obsessed and a wearer of iron ear plugs
driven several inches into each ear.

Just my opinion............William A. Noyes

[William A.]

<markd@toad-net.com> wrote in message
news:40bb3748$0$21383$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
> "Wrong. The evidence for Se supplementation is rather good
> if you are willing to consider the numerous animals studies.
> It reduces incidence and slows the onset of various cancers.
> When the Doctor surgically excises your cancerous prostate
> due to less your than optimal Se levels there is a good
> chance your "f**king" days will be over. And if it gets into
> your bones, your days will be numbered, few, and painful. I
> suppose you can wait until the SELECT study is complete in
> another ~15 years but by that time you will have accumulated
> more mutations in your cells than if you had used Se
> supplements and it will be late in game to start Se
> supplementation."
>
> Which of course begs the question, especially if the long
> term study were to show no difference or even a negative
> difference. Such scare tactics are better suited for the
> late night infomercials. It can not be shown that current
> levels are a cause of cancer nor that anyone with x amount
> in their diet doesn't get cancer. Scores of antiox
> substances potentially have an effect on cancer, why are
> these being neglected? Getting a variety of them from a
> mixed diet is all the research now supports, none of them as
> a majic bullet is now supported.

One double blind human study pops into mind that has a shown
the Se level prostate cancer rates with confidence interval of
95% and were apparently lowered also but since the confidence
intervals were rather wide one can't be 95% sure. PMID
12101110 It seems to have cut the prostate cancer rate in half
and that not with a life time of use, like I advocate. And I
grant that the subjects were selected for having low Se
status, hence a diet higher in Se may have accomplished the
same thing. But the animals studies of earlier times indicate
otherwise, as I recall. In humans in the short term, Se lowers
the oxidative stress on the prostate such that it lowers the
PSA. See PMID 12433727

I agree with your comment that other substance are being
ignored which is very sad. In the SELECT study, they are only
using d-alpha tocopherol acetate with Se which remarkable
stupid. It would be far better if they used the succinate
ester form. see JACN, Vol 21, No 4, 339-343 (2002) Further,
they should using a high gamma supplement as gamma-T maybe a
stronger antioxidant at least in part of their study
population. Perhaps validly they can say they have to make
some choices but still........... Further, there needs to be a
Se, tocopherol, and vitamin D trial also. Moreover, the Select
study come pretty damned late in life. I am 55 which is the
lowest age they are accepting into this study. I've been
taking Se for 40 years on the basis of animal studies. I guess
YOU can wait another 12 years but likely Moyad et al will want
more proof even then. Consider the review of evidence by
Fleshner and Kucuk in Urology 2001 Apr,57(4 supple 1):90-4,
they consider the double blind studies already available and
put the odds that Se and vitamin E not really helping at 1 in
400 or in others words they say they have a 99.75% confidence
the nutrients help. And you want to wait.........

The evidence concerning vitamin D indicates that antioxidant
activity "isn't the only game in town". PMID 14580762 Holick
and Chen PMID 12918875 Currently the amounts of D advised are
too low. See Vieth Read AJCN, Vol 69, No. %, 825-826, May 1999

Yet you want to regulate vitamin D to the lower 400 IU dose.
Don't you?

By avoiding char-broiled meats, grilled meats, foods cooked
on the same grill, heat damaged fats, increasing vegetables
(lycopene) and fish (taurine and Omega 3s) in the diet plus
over a lifetime using Se supplements with assorted E
vitamers, and relatively high dose D, prostate cancer should
be lowered by 90%, IMO. A conservative projection considering
that people leaving the tradional Japanese diet experience a
4X jump in PC and those leaving a Chinese diet and lifestyle
suffer 16X jump in PC..

Even a fairly good mixed diet will not likely provide enough
vitamin D or E to be maximally preventive. I am not saying
good mixed diet can't help to a marked degree but it can not
be with this generation of dieticians and nutritionists. Their
advice is rarely done that well, just look at their model
diets........SAD. Nor do I accept it likely that natural
levels can ever be optimal. Rather, natural levels are likely
only adequate to support procreation the majority of the
population, the rest population and the elderly are damned by
nature and many of nutritionists.

How old are you Mark de Toad?

Only the dead have forever to wait...........
....................................William A. Noyes

[Js]

"Peter Webb" <wabbfamilyDIESPAMDIE@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40b8a9af$0$8989$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> The protein in whey and soy proteins is as good as the
> highest quality
whole
> foods. Protein is composed of amino acids which are
> essentially pure chemicals, and some quite simple chemicals
> at that. That is how your body absorbs in the gut and uses
> protein in the body, and that's what you get
in
> protein powders.
>
> The rest of the stuff you write below is crap. Protein,
> vitamins, and
either
> fat or carbs or both, that's all you need. Selenium? Nobody
> needs fucking Selenium, you least of anybody. .

just out of curiosity, has anyone ever seen a study comparing
the bv of isolated protein vs. whole-food protein? i hear this
question (does processing protein destroy any of the amino
acids?) a lot, but i've yet to see anyone cough up any
scientific evidence, either way.

anyone?

[Js]

"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
> Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
> ignorant statements for telling another what they write
> is crap?

yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?

[Drs]

"js" <johnstubbleton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9i0h9$cm6$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com
> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
>> Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
>> ignorant statements for telling another what they write
>> is crap?
>
> yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?

Only we get to determine that, from the jpegs of her naked,
sweaty body.

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[William A.]

<markd@toad-net.com> wrote in message
news:40bb3748$0$21383$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
> Which of course begs the question, especially if the long
> term study were to show no difference or even a negative
> difference.

You seem oblivious to the already existing evidence.

> Such scare tactics are better suited for the late night
> infomercials.

Rubbish. A Chinaman has 1/16 the chance of getting prostate
cancer of a Westerner. A Japanese keeping to the old diet has
only 25% of the chance of getting PC compared to Westerner. It
is also obvious that multi-fold increase in PC is of
multifactorial origin. I address that in my other posting on
this your immediate posting in this thread of discussion. Do
you think all is well? It isn't when you get PC.

Your "solution" has NOT made a dent in the health of the
public, nor will it ever.

> It can not be shown that current levels are a cause of
> cancer nor that anyone with x amount in their diet doesn't
> get cancer. Scores of antiox substances potentially have an
> effect on cancer, why are these being neglected?

Isn't that your fault;-)? It sure isn't mine.

> Getting a variety of them from a mixed diet is all the
> research now supports, none of them as a manic bullet is now
> supported.

Not if you look at the animal based research and the secondary
of endpoints of couple large human studies of which I am
aware. Even the third study in which the subject were chosen
for low Se status taken alone indicates at least a part of the
population would benefit from supplemental Se.

Cat got your tongue? Mark are you there? Or are you to busy
with your buddy Doe?

William A. Noyes

[Pizza Gurl]

Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
their posts read, and for people stuck in the 80s.

Welcome to the 90s

"js" <johnstubbleton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c9i0h9$cm6$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
>
> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
> > Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
> > ignorant statements for telling another what they write
> > is crap?
>
>
> yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?

[Drs]

"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:23b16bd441abaa7d49220e8914caf8ff@news.teranews.com
> Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
> their posts read, and for people stuck in the 80s.
>
> Welcome to the 90s

Bottom posting is for those people who will be read the most
because they show their readership the greatest consideration.

Welcome to the twenty-first century.

--

A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Js]

> Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
> their posts read, and for people stuck in the 80s.
>
> Welcome to the 90s
>

so, you're not hot, and you don't even know what decade it is?

[Pizza Gurl]

I know what decade it is. I guess you,a nd the moron. missed
the 90s. you still bottom post and expect anybody to read your
posts. Knowledge comes with experience newbie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
?

"js" <js@yourmom.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FC68CD6C0EAjsyourmomcom@138.12.44.45...
> > Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
> > their posts read, and for people stuck in the 80s.
> >
> > Welcome to the 90s
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> so, you're not hot, and you don't even know what
> decade it is?

[Ben D]

Pizza Gurl wrote:

> Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
> their posts read, and for people stuck in the 80s.
>
> Welcome to the 90s
>

Wow... if top posting is your way of bucking the trend of the
80s I think that you may still be able to get legwarmers
somewhere. And I *know* I've got some hairspray around...
somewhere.

By the way, how's that Star Wars thing working out?

Ben

>
> "js" <johnstubbleton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c9i0h9$cm6$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
>
>>"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:d6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
>>
>>>Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
>>>ignorant statements for telling another what they write
>>>is crap?
>>
>>
>>yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?
>>
>>
>

[Js]

"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:8bd34942670101223cfa3f63badd0020@news.teranews.com:

> I know what decade it is. I guess you,a nd the moron. missed
> the 90s. you still bottom post and expect anybody to read
> your posts. Knowledge comes with experience newbie.

pretty arrogant, considering i'm an internet developer and
have been on it since '93, not to mention that TOP POSTING is
the newbie practice, pizza face.

well, have fun talking to yourself.

[Chad C.]

Please stop this folks. Post how you want to post, you've made
your points.

-Chad

"js" <js@yourmom.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FD661AE6E3Fjsyourmomcom@138.12.44.45...
> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:8bd34942670101223cfa3f63badd0020@news.teranews.com:
>
> > I know what decade it is. I guess you,a nd the moron.
> > missed the 90s.
you
> > still bottom post and expect anybody to read your posts.
> > Knowledge comes with experience newbie.
>
>
> pretty arrogant, considering i'm an internet developer and
> have been on it since '93, not to mention that TOP POSTING
> is the newbie practice, pizza face.
>
> well, have fun talking to yourself.

[Pizza Gurl]

Is that Ben Kenobi?

"Ben D" <stinkytaco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:10bt9jslpieg153@corp.supernews.com...
> Pizza Gurl wrote:
>
> > Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
> > their posts
read,
> > and for people stuck in the 80s.
> >
> > Welcome to the 90s
> >
>
> Wow... if top posting is your way of bucking the trend of
> the 80s I think that you may still be able to get legwarmers
> somewhere. And I *know* I've got some hairspray around...
> somewhere.
>
> By the way, how's that Star Wars thing working out?
>
> Ben
>
> >
> > "js" <johnstubbleton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:c9i0h9$cm6$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
> >
> >>"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d-
> >>6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
> >>
> >>>Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
> >>>ignorant statements for telling another what they write
> >>>is crap?
> >>
> >>
> >>yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >

[Ben D]

Pizza Gurl wrote:
> Is that Ben Kenobi?
>

I don't know whether you're trying to be funny or if you
don't know what "Star Wars" is, in which case I would feel
*really* old.

And no, it's not. But that's pretty fucking clever anyway.

Ben, who's pretty sure that Kenobi doesn't start with a "D"

> "Ben D" <stinkytaco@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:10bt9jslpieg153@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Pizza Gurl wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bottom posting is only for people that don't want most of
>>>their posts
>
> read,
>
>>>and for people stuck in the 80s.
>>>
>>>Welcome to the 90s
>>>
>>
>>Wow... if top posting is your way of bucking the trend of
>>the 80s I think that you may still be able to get legwarmers
>>somewhere. And I *know* I've got some hairspray around...
>>somewhere.
>>
>>By the way, how's that Star Wars thing working out?
>>
>>Ben
>>
>>
>>>"js" <johnstubbleton@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:c9i0h9$cm6$1@mailgate2.lexis-nexis.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:d-
>>>>6294695ad44ef868d8d1c67647d6c25@news.teranews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Isn't that bad etiquette to tell somebody they are making
>>>>>ignorant statements for telling another what they write
>>>>>is crap?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>yes. so is top-posting. now, onto business: are you hot?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

[Pizza Gurl]

We are not worthy your highness but are you over 12 years old?

"js" <js@yourmom.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94FD661AE6E3Fjsyourmomcom@138.12.44.45...
> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:8bd34942670101223cfa3f63badd0020@news.teranews.com:
>
> > I know what decade it is. I guess you,a nd the moron.
> > missed the 90s.
you
> > still bottom post and expect anybody to read your posts.
> > Knowledge comes with experience newbie.
>
>
> pretty arrogant, considering i'm an internet developer and
> have been on it since '93, not to mention that TOP POSTING
> is the newbie practice, pizza face.
>
> well, have fun talking to yourself.

[John Hudso]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 02:53:22 GMT, "Pizza Gurl"
<gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote:

>We are not worthy your highness but are you over 12
>years old?
>
>
>"js" <js@yourmom.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns94FD661AE6E3Fjsyourmomcom@138.12.44.45...
>> "Pizza Gurl" <gbusey@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:8bd34942670101223cfa3f63badd0020@news.teranews.com:
>>
>> > I know what decade it is. I guess you,a nd the moron.
>> > missed the 90s.
>you
>> > still bottom post and expect anybody to read your posts.
>> > Knowledge comes with experience newbie.
>>
>>
>> pretty arrogant, considering i'm an internet developer and
>> have been on it since '93, not to mention that TOP POSTING
>> is the newbie practice, pizza face.
>>
>> well, have fun talking to yourself.
>

>We are not worthy your highness but are you over 12
>years old?

I assume you ask this as you are looking for a partner for the
Junior Prom!!

HAGW!! ;o)

TFIF!!