Low carb almost killed me!

[tobe140]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004 I was diagnosised with kidney stones. Caused by Atkins? Jury is out on that but I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience, never before. Opted to do a lithotripsy ( laser that crushes the stones) on May 20. :mad: A simple 1/2 hr procedure turned into a week long fight for me to live. My body rejected every aspertame, nutrasweet, slpenda, and any other fake crap I have put in it over the past six months. I broke out in rashes, vomited for 5 days. Finally after the talk of a feeding by IV, I grabbed white bread toast and grits and by GOD I KEPT IT DOWN!!!! My Atkins warped brain could understand that your body needs carbs to heal, to run as well oiled machine. I am not sure what path to take my maintnance down. All low carb foods still make me feel like vomiting. This is not Atkins bashing, it is warning. :Puke:

[doreen T]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004 I was diagnosised with kidney stones. Caused by Atkins? Jury is out on that but I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience, never before. Opted to do a lithotripsy ( laser that crushes the stones) on May 20. :mad: A simple 1/2 hr procedure turned into a week long fight for me to live. My body rejected every aspertame, nutrasweet, slpenda, and any other fake crap I have put in it over the past six months. I broke out in rashes, vomited for 5 days. Finally after the talk of a feeding by IV, I grabbed white bread toast and grits and by GOD I KEPT IT DOWN!!!! My Atkins warped brain could understand that your body needs carbs to heal, to run as well oiled machine. I am not sure what path to take my maintnance down. All low carb foods still make me feel like vomiting. This is not Atkins bashing, it is warning. :Puke:
hi there,

I'm sorry to read about your terrible ordeal :rose: and sincerely hope you're feeling better soon!

Um, I checked back through your previous posts, and in your very first posting here in January, you indicated that you were on antibiotics for chronic urinary tract infections which you had before low-carb .. http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=159453

Low-carb diets do not cause kidney stones. However, Dr. Atkins and all the other authors of low-carb programs caution people with pre-existing kidney problems to consult their doctor about the advisability of following the program. Increased protein can stress kidneys that are already diseased, but absolutely no scientific or medical study has ever shown risk of harm from following a low-carb diet in persons with normal kidney function.

According to national kidney disease organizations, leading cause of kidney stones includes lack of sufficient water intake to flush out toxins, and chronic kidney infections. The only link with diet is in certain people who may be sensitive to oxalates (calcium) or purines (uric acid) in foods. http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/index.htm


Doreen

[loCarbJ]

I know someone who had the same thing happen to them. She's a nurse and couldn't bring herself to eat high fat, but she desperately wanted to lose weight, so she did Atkins. She cut her carbs out. Then she was eating a low-carb, low-fat, high protein diet. Great, right?

NO! If anyone follows a strick low-carb, strick low-fat diet; they run a very high risk of the problems that you described. A very low-carb, very low-fat, very high protein diet will nearly kill you!

The body needs fats. If you eat a low fat, high carb diet; it's not a problem because the body will just convert all that carbohydrate to fat for you.

J

[legwarmers]

you'd think a nurse would know better!

[Dodger]

I had my kidney stone problems before I started on Atkins, when I was on low-fat. All the reading I did on kidney stones convinced me that noone knows what causes them, although there are lots of guesses.

[fendel]

Um, I checked back through your previous posts, and in your very first posting here in January, you indicated that you were on antibiotics for chronic urinary tract infections ..

I've always been told that the antibiotics prescribed for urinary tract infections can cause kidney stones, especially if you don't drink enough water with them. (Interestingly, now that I'm doing low-carb, I never seem to get the UTIs anymore. My guess is that the lack of sugar in my diet and the lower blood glucose are helping.)

Sorry to hear of your troubles! But I wouldn't give up on LC.

[Built]

I had a kidney stone a few years BEFORE I tried Atkins. They SUCK.

But I haven't had any SINCE starting Atkins. And I've had my kidney function tested because everybody was telling me I was gonna die.

Totally normal kidney function. No problems.

[fendel]

Come to think of it, I have a friend with kidney problems who went on LC and her kidney function actually improved. BUN and creatinine are down.

[cartmanis]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004.
My body rejected every aspertame, nutrasweet, slpenda, and any other fake crap I have put in it over the past six months. I broke out in rashes, vomited for 5 days.

Sounds like you either didn't read the book, or didn't clue in.
LC is about eating whole natural foods, meat, veggies, some fruit, etc... If you decided to kill yourself with unatural crap, take responsiblity for your own actions and don't go blaming others. LC products are out there, but anyone with half a clue should realize they are treats, not staples.

Bah, I have no patience for people like this.

[Quest]

:going to refill my water glass:

[sandi24]

My sister-in-law is a doctor and she gets frustrated at women getting recurring cystitis (UTI's) as this can be practically eradicated by simply drinking plenty of fluids.. sounds to me like this was your problem UTI's/kidney stones ..

Lcing isnt an alien diet .. its just eating the good carbs/good fats ..I would have reached for a nice wholewheat bread myself.. yummy ...white is so tasteless now..:)

This way of eating has totally changed my life I feel soooo much better than I have in years!

[Hungry247]

My sister-in-law is a doctor and she gets frustrated at women getting recurring cystitis (UTI's) as this can be practically eradicated by simply drinking plenty of fluids.. sounds to me like this was your problem UTI's/kidney stones ..



Not all the time.
I used to get Uti's all the time. It got so bad that I was drinking 64oz of cranberry juice every two days. On top of alot of water. my pee was clear! I was so desperate. When I called my doctor the nurse would say "Is this Amy? How much cipro do you need today honey?" I went to a urologist twice nothing wrong.

I now use Otho-Evra birth control patches. I've been uti free since January 2002. :D You make the call. Perhaps you should share my experience with your sister as I have since changed doctors, and get her opinion.

[LucyLucy]

It truly amazes me that people want to blame all their pre-existing medical conditions on Atkins. If the plan was followed correctly, there are no issues with health, other than to make it better. Drinking the alloted amount of water daily would have prevented the stones from appearing in the first place.

My understanding is that stones are either acidic-based or calcium-based, both of which are not an issue on Atkins........

LL

[skpaddie]

I'll have to agree with Lucy on this one. The kidney stones must have been there first. They dont appear that quickly. "I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience". Looks like they were there when you started. Sorry I know it mush have been a bad experience but yoiu can't blame Atkins for this one as much as you'd like to.

[black57]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004 I was diagnosised with kidney stones. Caused by Atkins? Jury is out on that but I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience, never before. Opted to do a lithotripsy ( laser that crushes the stones) on May 20. :mad: A simple 1/2 hr procedure turned into a week long fight for me to live. My body rejected every aspertame, nutrasweet, slpenda, and any other fake crap I have put in it over the past six months. I broke out in rashes, vomited for 5 days. Finally after the talk of a feeding by IV, I grabbed white bread toast and grits and by GOD I KEPT IT DOWN!!!! My Atkins warped brain could understand that your body needs carbs to heal, to run as well oiled machine. I am not sure what path to take my maintnance down. All low carb foods still make me feel like vomiting. This is not Atkins bashing, it is warning. :Puke:

I hate to be a bearer of bad news but NO. Atkins did not cause your kidney stones. Your kidneys were malfunctioning before you began the diet. If you had read the book, which is easy to do, you would know this. I am sorry to be down on you like this but your news isn't new. I have heard this so much by people who pretend to be on Atkins. and if your doctor was on the ball he would have told your, correctly. Your diet did not cause the stones but your high carb way of eating BEFORE you began Atkins, kept your kidneys from functioning properly. So when they were asked to do their job, they failed you.You probably are one of those who don't like vegetables and didn't eat any of those low carb healthy veggies. Afterall low carb foods make you :Puke: You have not been able to make good decisions while on Atkins so I don't think that you are capable of making good decisions on maintenance.

Your body needs carbs if it is addicted to them. Wake up!

JMHO,
Black57

[twinmomma]

I also had a friend who was a die hard atkins fan. She did deveople problems like kidney stones. Her diet was HORRIBLE. Here is one example of what she would eat-sauasage w/sour cream. At least I think she used SC. She would inhale that worse food and would avoid all veggies. I am sorry that you had a bad experince but hope everything is going well for you now:)

[tobe140]

I need to redefine my post about my recent illness. I have been called stupid and other derogatory names just because I choose to share my expereince with the people on this board. How junvenile to insult another person because they questioned the diet and their persoanl health. None of us know what this diet will do to us long term. I am still a fan of it for weight lose. I met my goal but, as the expereince with my illness concluded, I do not choose this lifestyle for my life. I do not for an instant blame the Atkins diet for my Kidney stones, but I do blame the deit for aggravating the issue. I have seen many posts about back pain and or kidney area pain after starting Atkins. I am one of them. So stay in your Atkins induced haze and I plan to get healthy and stay healthy. Please refrain from insults just because someone disagrees with you, variety is the spice of life!

[LucyLucy]

You 'developed' health issues, most likely a result of your prior crappy eating/living habits, otherwise you wouldn't be looking for a cure to whatever ails you. You clearly blame Atkins, you have to DUH realize that to insult Atkins on an Atkins board is going to stir up all kinds of bees in their bonnets. You cannot expect to insult people and not receive any in return.

You're only 'sharing' your experience because you want to argue with someone. You're also 'sharing' your experience in the 'Low Carb War Zone', honestly dude, what DID you expect???

I suggest reading the book, you may find your answers there.

LL

[black57]

I agree with Lucylucy. I do not get any vibes from you that states how bad your old way of eating was. Atkins will introduced you to proper eating habits, if you do it properly. I am not the type of person that does not throw insults, haphazardlys. Don't cop-out by becoming a victim of our bullying, that is not what our point is! And, yes, we do know what the diet does long term, don't let the "experts" fool you. I have friends and acquaintances that have done this long-term. I have been doing it for a year and a half. Compared to 6 months that is long term. But, I have a friend that has done for nearly 4 years.

Do you really believe that variety is the spice of life?

[Built]

I'm at almost 3 years here.

So far, weight steady, cholesterol down, no kidney problems (and I have had a kidney stone in the past), rarely sick, almost no headaches EVER (used to get regular migraines), skin cleared up...

All signs of my impending poor health...?

I'll take my chances, thanks!

[happy2lose]

I have suffered from Kidney stones over the last 10 years....it is not Atkins that causes them...and sometimes I truly feel that since all bodies are different...every body handles certain food groups differently. I drink 104 ounces of water a day, so it's not like I don't get enough water. Unfortunately, my body doesn't handle oscalate calcium well...so I have to try and stay away from food groups that are high in oscalate calcium. I had a rough time last summer because strawberries and rhubarb and two low-carb fruits...and I love them...but are also high in oscalate! I paid the price...and passed the stones...eventually.

I think you really need to investigate more before trying something new...especially when you have certain health conditions prior to beginning. Knowledge is the key...and I think you jumped on the Low-carb band wagon to loose the weight...nothing else has changed for you. Where most of us here are trying to develop healthy eating by lowering our carbs and eating to live...not living to eat!

Wish you luck

Happy

[potatofree]

I don't recall this thread being originally posted in the War zone. Perhaps it was moved here by a moderator. In any case, even in the War Zone, name-calling and personal attacks/flaming aren't acceptable. Healthy debate can increase everyone's knowledge. :D

[LucyLucy]

That's why I think reading the book is key, it clearly states the plan, risks for people with certain pre-existing conditions. Knowlege is power, read all you can about the way of eating that you'll stick with for the rest of your life.

LL :)

[Lisa N]

Just a quick reminder that flames and personal insults are a violation of forum rules. If you feel that you have been flamed or personally insulted, please use the report post icon located at the top of each and every post instead of flaming or insulting in return.

For clarity, I'd also like to re-post the link that Doreen gave at the beginning of this thread on kidney stones and their causes: http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/stonesadults/index.htm#what

According to this link, the tendency to develop kidney stones is largely genetic and inherited and if you do happen to have the misfortune of having inherited that tendency, kidney stones can form regardless of what type of diet you are following. Chronic UTIs are also a contributor as well as consistantly low water intake among other things.

Tobe140, my sympathies for your experience. Perhaps once your doctors examine the stone fragments that were passed (they did instruct you to strain your urine for a time, didn't they?) and determine their composition, they will have a better idea of what may have caused them. By your own posts, you already had at least one contributing factor (chronic UTIs) prior to starting low carb so whether you switch diets or not, it may still be wise to consult your urologist regarding ways you can prevent future occurances since diet appears to be only a small part of the contributing factor and even then only in those who already have a susceptiblity to kidney stones.
You may also want to share your experience afterwards with your anesthesiologist if you ever should require anesthesia (either sedation or general) in the future since a lot of your symptoms (rash, vomiting, etc..) can also be an adverse effect of certain anesthetics. Many of my husband's relatives (including my husband and one of my daughters) react very similarly every time they receive any type of anesthesia, so that trait may be an inherited sensitivity as well.

[tobe140]

For those who think the Atkins books is the bible...I read the book(s) several times. I did not post this in War Zone, I posted it in the medical section. It was moved! The was not a argumentative post, just informative. The flamers on this board turned it into a fight by calling me stupid!!!!! By the way, had a sausage biscuit from burger king this morning, UHMMMMMMM! No weight gain either!!! It's all about portion control, now who is stupid?

[DarthRaidr]

I'm new here, So I didn't read your moved post..
But I have so many people teling me how the Atkins type diet are bad for you....I also noticed they are all overweight!! I do what works for me.

[black57]

For those who think the Atkins books is the bible...I read the book(s) several times. I did not post this in War Zone, I posted it in the medical section. It was moved! The was not a argumentative post, just informative. The flamers on this board turned it into a fight by calling me stupid!!!!! By the way, had a sausage biscuit from burger king this morning, UHMMMMMMM! No weight gain either!!! It's all about portion control, now who is stupid?

The reason it was moved was probably because this is where the post is more appropriate. Afterall, your title of your opening post is Atkins nearly Killed Me!!! Those are fighting words.

You said that you read the book repeatedly, yet you did not know about the kidney thing? :rolleyes: I checked my post, I didn't call you stupid ( I try very hard to avoid name-calling ). However, there were things that you should have known that may have contributed to that feeling.

Okay, we are not arguing with you. But, we do need to see what you are eating to be able to assist. According to you, you are not eating vegetables? or did I miss-read your posts. If you want to return to a carby life that is your prerogative. What veggies are you eating/did you eat before your kidneys revealed to you that they could not do their job.

However, I do have a little flame to throw at you. You lost all of that weight, congratulations but now you want to credit portion control. IMO you ate that sausage biscuit to get back at us. Now, who did you hurt.

Black57

[skpaddie]

Well tobe140 you've obviously found the key to weightloss, but i dont think i'll be headin to BK just yet for my 'sausage biscuit' as healthy as that sounds. Enjoy your new way of life :rolleyes:

[tobe140]

you are correct! We all have to do what is best for each of us. I did lose weight following atkins to the letter, but it caused problems for me that I never had before ( yes! I never had any health issues other than UTI'S). Everyone's body reacts differently, but as I look back over some posts that have been posted here, constipation, kidney pain, upset stomachs and a host of other ailments related to the diet makes me finally come to the realization, maybe this diet is not as safe as everyone makes it out to be. It is easy to get sucked in to this Atkins thing like brainwashing, some of us have a stronger will to live. Beware if you find out that you can't follow the diet.....you will be booted to the curb!

[Hellistile]

Besides, if you ate that biscuit this morning, the weight hasn't had a chance to pile on yet. Also, the appetite for more carbs hadn't had time to trigger off yet either. And I don't think that sort of food is good for your medical condition. Portion control won't work if you are eating the wrong foods.

[Marge]

[QUOTE=cartmanis]LC is about eating whole natural foods, meat, veggies, some fruit, etc...

Right on. It's about healthy balanced eating, not overloading our plates with pasta, white bread, french fries, potatoe chips, diet pops, ect...

[tobe140]

Hellistile,

If I ate 4 biscuits I might worry. I am trouble eating anything right now. After throwing up for 5 days straight, my taste buds can't tolerate many things. Anything I threw up, is a no-no. As soon as I get my stomach back I will probably follow a modified( limited complex carbs) low-carb type maintnance with less meat. My stones were Ureaic acid stones, meat tends to arragvate these I understand. My doctor gave me a diet which is high carb/low meat and sugar. I am just trying to keep off the weight I lost.

[LucyLucy]

If your doctor is telling you to eat a certain way to alleviate your symptoms, I'd imagine you should follow his advice, though we all have lots of advice & knowledge, we don't have a medical degree, can't imagine why you wouldn't follow doctors orders, doctor knows best.

Here's a great link http://www.hollywoodurology.com/uricacid.html

But I'm sure your doctor went over this with you, I can't imagine why you'd be on Atkins to begin with, sounds like you shouldn't be a candidate with the stones you have.

Good luck!

LL

LL

[sandi24]

I saw a health program this morning and the topic was kidney stones. The Urologist was advising people on changing their diet to eat less meat, but even he said the main thing is water water, water, that everyone needs to drink a minimum of 2 litres of water a day to flush the kidneys.

Having said that he himself had to pass a kidney stone 2 years ago so unless he isnt practising what he preaches... I think hereditary factors come into play - he said families get it because they are all eating the same diet, but just maybe its genetic.Just my 2 cents..

[tobe140]

Lucy lucy,

Never knew I had stones before lc. I have always been very healthy. So acording to the link, lc does cause kidney stones in those predisposed. So everyone needs to back off.........lc can cause kidney stones!

[Cara73]

Also, you have to remember, that just because Atkins didn't work for you, doesn't mean it's bad and everybody should stay away from it. I've been doing it off and on since 1998. I went off for a while and ate like an idiot so I'm back full force, but I was much heathlier when I was doing it than I've been lately. I kept my weight off for 3 years until I fell off completely.

It seems to me like you're putting it down trying to justify yourself for not being on it. You are putting it down, but AFTER you reached your goal weight. Now you're going to start eating crap fast food from Burger King and think that's ok?? You need to rethink your eating habits, whether it be low carb, low fat or whatever, or you'll be back up the road to weight gain.

I hope everything works out for you, whatever it may be. Good luck!!!

[LucyLucy]

LC does not cause kidney stones, but per the book they can aggrevate the condition, as your doctor should have mentioned.

LL

[black57]

LC does not cause kidney stones, but per the book they can aggrevate the condition, as your doctor should have mentioned.

LL

This is what we have been saying all along. Sorry Tobe but this is a fact and your doctor does know this. That is why the jury is still out, as you say in your first post.

[Lisa N]

So acording to the link, lc does cause kidney stones in those predisposed. So everyone needs to back off.........lc can cause kidney stones!

Tobe, nowhere in that link does it state that low carb causes kidney stones. What it does state is something a lot of us have already said...dehydration is one of the primary contributing factors (as in not enough water consumption). I take it that you ate no meat prior to beginning low carb? How about alcohol? None of that, either? Drank at least 2 liters of water per day? What were you eating when you switched to low carb that you did not eat prior to that?
You started out stating that you do not blame low carb for your kidney stone, but in the past few posts it seems that you do, although I think that may be a bit premature given that you already had at least one risk factor prior to low carbing. A person can have kidney stones and not realize it until they get large enough to cause a problem.
A recent study has now linked being overweight (and insulin resistance) with uric acid stone formation: http://www8.utsouthwestern.edu/utsw/cda/dept37389/files/158748.html
and in this link it states once again, that one of the primary factors in kidney stone formation is insufficient water intake, especially in areas that are hot (like Georgia): http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml
I wish you lots of luck with keeping your weight off, but whatever you do...drink that water!

[scrapgirl]

I typed a post and lost it so here is the short version:

1-Been there, done that with my husband and his KS (laser treatment). He was very sick after the procedure. I think it may just be the anesthesia, as someone else said.

2-LC does not have to be all the "crap" you mentioned...that is a choice...not really one endorsed by Atkins.

3-While LC perhaps contributed to your kidney issues, the book(DANDR) clearly warns those who have "at risk" kidneys against LC. While I can see how you may not have thought recurring UTI's fall into that category, hindsight would perhaps make you see that maybe they do. This may be more about misinterpretation and personal responsibility.

I totally understand your reluctance to lc after your experience and perhaps that is a good idea for you, given your new kidney issues. However, I dont think the weight falls on LC or Atkins. I disagree that Atkins almost killed you. I think perhaps it was complication from the kidney stones and the procedure. I also understand that you feel "under attack" so to speak, and rightfully so, with some of the negative feedback you have gotten. However, throwing sausage biscuits into the mix is just wrong! I am not sure you can really justify your case for that being a healthy meal.

Best of luck in the future and I hope you have no more kidney stones!

PS...my husbands massive stones were analyzed and were made of calcium...after limiting his calcium intake he has been stone free for 3 years!

[LadyBelle]

I agree that no diet works for everyone's lifestyle or tastes. And like anything else in life you pretty much get out of a diet results based on the amount of work put in.

Many people do well at moderation or having a diet that is higher carb and lower fat. However high carb and high fat such as a sausage biscuit has been shown to lead to weight gain and heart problems. If you had said you were moving to more fruits, whole grains, lower fat or something for health it might be easier to be sympathetic and wish luck. No eatig plan though, even the very lax USDA or FDA ones call for no veggies and large amounts of junk food. You might find it a hard sell to make people belive that the junk food industry is healthier then meat and veggies. While there is no weight gain yet, a steady diet of high carb and higher fat foods will bring it on if there was a history of weight problems, and the nutritional void of white bread will lead to health problems later.

Yes it may make you feel better. Seratonin is released, blood sugar is elivated and pleasure centers in the brain are activated. That doesn't mean it's good for you. The same thing happens when drug addicts get thier fix, the same pleasure areas are activated and they feel good for a bit, that doesn't mean it's healthy.

[ItsTheWooo]

Sounds like you either didn't read the book, or didn't clue in.
LC is about eating whole natural foods, meat, veggies, some fruit, etc... If you decided to kill yourself with unatural crap, take responsiblity for your own actions and don't go blaming others. LC products are out there, but anyone with half a clue should realize they are treats, not staples.

Bah, I have no patience for people like this.
:/

Dr. A sets a limit on 4 pks of splenda per day for induction, I think. He has no upper limit of fake sweetner for the rest of the program.

Besides, perhaps she has an intolerance to all fake sweetners, I don't think it is fair to accuse her of eating mainly artificial junk without her first saying this.

[ItsTheWooo]

Hellistile,

If I ate 4 biscuits I might worry. I am trouble eating anything right now. After throwing up for 5 days straight, my taste buds can't tolerate many things. Anything I threw up, is a no-no. As soon as I get my stomach back I will probably follow a modified( limited complex carbs) low-carb type maintnance with less meat. My stones were Ureaic acid stones, meat tends to arragvate these I understand. My doctor gave me a diet which is high carb/low meat and sugar. I am just trying to keep off the weight I lost.
I just want to say that it sounds like your body quite simply cannot handle high meat, which is why you developed the stones. I think you probably did do Atkins properly, yet developed the stones through no fault of your own. A high meat diet Atkins diet might not be for everyone, just like not everyone can handle lots of carbs. Personally I do very well with lots of meat but starch gets me into trouble.

Once you recover, I think you are right on target with continuing the moderate carb & low meat thing. Your doctors high carb diet sounds like it could cause weight problems, but if you do moderate carb & low meat you should avoid both problems. Good luck to you.

[ItsTheWooo]

I saw a health program this morning and the topic was kidney stones. The Urologist was advising people on changing their diet to eat less meat, but even he said the main thing is water water, water, that everyone needs to drink a minimum of 2 litres of water a day to flush the kidneys.

Having said that he himself had to pass a kidney stone 2 years ago so unless he isnt practising what he preaches... I think hereditary factors come into play - he said families get it because they are all eating the same diet, but just maybe its genetic.Just my 2 cents..
Yea I think genetics play a big role in stuff like this. I LOVE meat, always have and always will eat a lot of it... the only side effects I notice from meat are all good ones; lots of energy, vigor, & "sharpness". Never ever had anything like a kidney stone, no pain in kidneys nothing like that.

[scrapgirl]

I can add that with my husbands family, it is not that they are eating the same thing. His parents have been divorced for years and you are looking at 3 different households at play. I believe the genetic thing. It has rang true with the kidney stones and the gout in out case. Just my experience with the topic.

Glad we can all share like this! It is enlightening.

[jadefox26]

I just wanted to put my 10cs worth in.

Now, surely we are all sensible human beings who are open to a discussion on many topics (otherwise we wouldn't all be here now would we) so what I can't understand is why some of you are getting all hot under the collar about one persons point of view??
This lady has been told by her Dr (misinformed or otherwise) that the illness could have been caused by Atkins. In my opinion we should respect the fact that she has come here to air her opinion and leave it at that. It doesn't mean we should agree with her, but it doesn't mean we should be agressive in out manner towards her either!

And to the lady who posted this - you should have suspected that you'd get this kind of reaction off of a board of atkineers!! ;-)
I am sorry you've had the problems and I do hope you can find another diet which suits your body better. Best of luck
Emma xx

[potatofree]

Remeber the "Report Post" function. Much better than a flame war....

[tobe140]

http://www.youngagain.com/marcella75/noname47.html http://www.atkins-diet.cc/risk2.php http://www.mercola.com/2002/aug/28/atkins.htm

Since there was a debate about wether or not The Atkins WOE caused or contributed to the formation of my kidney stones, I decided to do a bit of research. It is all over the internet about how kidney stones are formed from the high Ureaic Acid produced by your body when in Ketosis. Of course, the die hards will Pafoo the findings of theses articles, but there has to be some truth to it. There should be warning labels on the atkins books and product about the dangers of a what a low carb diet can do to your kidneys. I can see many more lawsuits in the future!

[Hellistile]

Tobe: Mercola did not write that article that claimed Atkins caused kidney Stones. That was someone else. Mercola's comment is below:

Dr. Mercola's Comment:

This is a great example of what the media will do to defend their position. This study really doesn't prove one darn thing, yet it was hyped out as a major reason why people should stop the Atkins diet. How can you make any type of broad based generalization on a six-week study of ten people?

Most of these concerns can be easily addressed with proper water and calcium intake. While I am not a fan of ketosis to facilitate weight loss, I believe the concerns that are being addressed are distorted.

Atkins approach is quite close to the optimal one in that he was one of the pioneers who recognized that lower carbohydrate intake is the central solution. I have enormous respect for him for providing us a deeper understanding to the riddle most people face with weight loss.

It is interesting that almost the entire medical profession discounts this board-certified cardiologist's approach to weight loss, while the public seems to love it.

The scientists haven't figured out that while you can fool many people in the short-term with slick marketing campaigns, you can't have the #1 health book on the market for all these years if the program doesn't work.

Dr. Atkins plan does indeed work quite well for many people, and I am sure it has provided major life extensions for many people. It is far healthier than the diets most people consume.

Is the Atkins diet perfect? I don't believe so. No diet is perfect, and that certainly includes mine. But I do believe there are several minor points that could be adjusted to radically improve the Atkins diet's health values.

He also has a radically low daily carbohydrate intake of 20 grams. My guess though is that many people don't read the Atkins Diet carefully enough and just restrict all carbs that add up to 20 grams. Dr. Atkins and the Eades are quite specific, though, in subtracting the fiber carbs from the total carbs to come up with the actual carbs that are digested. One merely subtracts the fiber in a food from the total carbohydrate of the food to obtain a term they call "effective carbohydrate content"

I believe the Eades' second book, Protein Power LifePlan, provides a more sensible approach to weight loss for most, as the restriction starts at 40 grams of carbohydrate. This increase in carbs would allow the intake of more vegetables, with all their other health benefits, and avoids the ketosis that so many healthcare professionals are concerned about.

The Eades' book is, however, a bit complicated and more like a medical textbook, but it really is full of useful information. I hope to have a book that provides a simpler strategy combined with psychological acupressure techniques to help people solve their weight loss challenges available early next year.

Many health experts are also concerned about the saturated fat in the Atkins Diet. If you are still confused about this myth, please read Sally Fallon's excellent article on this topic. What the experts should rightfully be concerned about is the trans fat content of the program. While trans fat will not cause insulin release, it certainly is chock full of other health complications that you should avoid.

It’s interesting that Dr. Atkins' website is the only natural medicine web site that has more visitors than mine. We missed passing him by two weeks, but he received an enormous amount of publicity from the recent New York Times article that catapulted him far ahead in the rankings and we will not pass him until we obtain our media exposure later this fall when we deploy our new site innovations"

Tobe: if you want to prove that Atkins causes kidney stones, please ensure that you read the links you provide to back your claims.

btw Mercola often lists an article be it from a newspaper or journal, then provides his own comment.

[skpaddie]

If you wanted to prove black is white you could find a study on the internet that proved it. You could find a study to prove anything if you looked hard enough.

[tobe140]

Yes, I guess you can find anything on the internet....even the truth about lowcarbing causing kidney stones. I did not just rely on the internet either, I discussed this with several doctors, nurses and health professionals. You know...the ones that went to college and have degrees in medicine and or healthcare. I tend to believe a doctor with a 8 year medical degree than Atkins brainwashed zombies who will risk death or major health problem to be thin!!

[skpaddie]

"Atkins brainwashed zombies ". Nice!! What are you still doing on this site??

[Hellistile]

There was an article in the Journal of American Medicine Association in 2000 that stated that "American Doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in America."

http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm
This was on the Mercola website, but the study was not written by him.

Today on the morning news here in Canada, it was quoted by the Canadian Institute of Medicine that "In Canada, Doctors are the 4th leading cause of death or accidents related to wrong prescriptions, objects left in patients after surgery, etc."

So, please don't defend all doctors. They are also fallible. If you want to blame the Atkins Diet for your kidney problems that is your right, but you will never convince us.

[Ghuldeen]

I have also talked about Atkins with several doctor friends of mine and they talked about possible kidney stress (from ketosis) and possible bone density loss due to calcium depletion as a result of a high protein diet. After chattng with them a bit about Atkins, I explained that my protein consumption had not actually gone up in any significant way (pretty much stayed the same in terms of grams consumed, but protein now made up a larger % of calorie intake after reducing carbs) and the large volume of water does a good job of relieving stress on the kidneys. In fact , my doctor was concerned about kidney stress before I changed to this WOE. After a few months and new tests, he found that the stress had gone. My doctor friends recommendation to me was that it was probably ok, but that you wouldn't want to stay on OWL for too long (we're talking well over a year here). Since Atkins has the phases including maintenance where the ratios shift again, there really shouldn't be a problem, IF you follow Atkins properly. I believe that allot of these horror stories (not necessarily implying that yours is one of them) are as a result of people not properly following the program.

Having said all that, I think there are some people that may be more prone to problems (with kidney stones, gall stones or other complications) on this diet or any diet for that matter. To decry this entire WOE based on the bad experiences of a few indiviuals, who may or may not have followed the program properly, is just as negligent as saying this program is for everyone.

As the old joke goes, "Doctor it hurts when I move my arm like this. Well then don't move it that way".

[TerryLynne]

I explained that my protein consumption had not actually gone up in any significant way (pretty much stayed the same in terms of grams consumed, but protein now made up a larger % of calorie intake after reducing carbs) and the large volume of water does a good job of relieving stress on the kidneys. Very good point. I also don't necessarily eat more protein but the percentage if definitely higher due to reduction of carbs. I DO need to drink more water though!

but that you wouldn't want to stay on OWL for too long (we're talking well over a year here). Since Atkins has the phases including maintenance where the ratios shift again, there really shouldn't be a problem, IF you follow Atkins properly. I believe that allot of these horror stories (not necessarily implying that yours is one of them) are as a result of people not properly following the program.

This statement however concerns me.... I will have been following Atkins for a year July 24th. Most of that time I have been in constant Ketosis. I try to stay at 20 - 30 carbs/day, adding to the foods allowed in induction some nuts, but pretty much sticking to induction. Do you think I am harming myself staying in Ketosis that long? My weight loss has slowed down extremely lately and I have been diligent w/ my food and exercise (brisk walking 3 miles everyday [40 -42 minutes] )

[doreen T]

.... Atkins brainwashed zombies who will risk death or major health problem to be thin!!
Hello everybody!!

Just a reminder .. debate is good, flaming is not. Please refrain from name-calling and insults while trying to get your point across. If you find yourself getting heated and angry over a discussion, it would be better to take some time to cool off before submitting your reply. Per the Forum Rules (http://forum.lowcarber.org/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_forum_rules), members who persist with inflammatory behaviour will lose their posting privileges.


Admin.

[Iowagirl]

I read the books. I was well aware that anyone previously diagnosed with kidney problems may not be good candidates for low carb. Sorry you missed that part of the book.

I haven't really followed this thread and I have nothing against you personally, Tobe, but it does seem to me that you are barking up the wrong tree. The people who are posting here are PRO-low carb. They come here for information and support. To think you might convert any to a lifestyle nearly all of us have tried and failed with - well, that sounds a tad unrealistic to me. Kind of like going to AA and trying to talk people into drinking again. We've been there, done that and now we're taking a different path. It may not be the path for you but why stand in the middle of it while we're trying to get by?

[Ghuldeen]

TerryLynn, don't sweat it. The way he put it to me was, your bones were so strong to support the extra weight you had I wouldn't really worry about it. The year thing was based upon me and my weight loss and where I expected to be on that timeline. I should have stated that more clearly. If your concerned about bone density loss, check with your doc. I'm certainly no doc, so please don't take this as gospel.

Didn't mean to alarm you.

[kstornado]

Iowagirl -very well put! I was thinking the same thing myself.

tobe140 .....One thought though - IMHO 61 pounds is an awful lot of weight to lose in 5 months. (were you eating any carbs?) I know the sooner the weight comes off the better for our self esteem, but is it healthier? I thought slow and steady was the key to teaching yourself good eating habits for a lifetime. Not just a quick fix to lose weight quick.

[kstornado]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004


OOPS - correction.......4 months to lose 61 pounds

[LondonIan]

I tend to believe a doctor with a 8 year medical degree than Atkins brainwashed zombies who will risk death or major health problem to be thin!!I often find myesf during these kind of arguments reflecting on one of the Aristotelian fallacies of logic: argument from authority.

Logically valid views are those based on evidence and reasoned deduction from evidence. Given the vast spectrum of disease that doctors study they are far from specialist on diet, and they are encouraged (or were before evidence based medicine started to impact) to listen to views of their 'elders and betters'!

This is rather the point - what does the evidence say.

[Lisa N]

It might also surprise you to know that doctors, for their 8 years of medical school, receive very little training in the area of diet and nutrition so while they may be experts in diseases and the disease process, most of them are no more educated in nutrition than the rest of us and what they have learned is based on the good old food pyramid (put together by lawyers and politicians, BTW, not doctors or nutritionists). Bad information, even coming from the "voice of authority" is still bad information. ;)

[black57]

Tobe140,

Dr. Atkins was a cardiologist. Correct me if I am wrong but it takes 8 years to become a doctor but when you specialize in a specific field it takes even longer. Besides, we have to take the reigns of our own health care. Yes doctors specialize but we should have the intelligence to research and understand what they are telling us. If research says that the kidneys and other organs can consume a low carb diet without problems then there must be something to it. Research also says that when problems crop up such as a gall/kidney stone attack, these organs failed to do their job because they were not healthy in the first place.

[Built]

[font=Comic Sans MS][size=3][color=seagreen] Do you think I am harming myself staying in Ketosis that long? My weight loss has slowed down extremely lately and I have been diligent w/ my food and exercise (brisk walking 3 miles everyday [40 -42 minutes] )

I'm at almost 3 years. Health is great.

Cardio won't speed your fat loss by much. Try weightlifting. It sure worked for me.

[black57]

Ketosis is a natural bodily function. I am willing to bet that you experienced ketosis long before you began low carbing. It occurs simply when we burn fat. Exercise will keep you in ketosis. Do you want to stop exercising? I don't think so. Even if you increased your carbs, if you are burnig fat, you will be in lipolysis or ketosis. Ketosis is enhanced by glucagon, the partner hormone of insulin. If you really research ketosis as a bodily function and not a result of low carbing you will discover that it is okay to be in ketosis.

[Cassinog]

Goodness - it does make me chortle when I hear people saying how LC'ing is bad for your health!

How can drinking lots of water, cutting out refined sugars / wheat products and eating good natural foods such as meats, vegetables, nuts and fruit really be detrimental to your health?

It might even lead one to ask how we ever survived as a species, hunting for our meat and foraging for our veg / fruit before some bright spark invented refined bread / cakes / sweets / transfats etc. ad infinitum, mightn't it?? :agree:

Dearie me...

[2brickie]

Tobe140 Hi Im sorry to hear about your kidney stones, my brother in law has them so severe he usually has to have them surgically removed. His wife has him on a vegetarian diet, as she decided meat causes them, they havent gotten any better, so I really think its probably each person handles food differently. Anyways I feel for you I watch him suffer and I wouldnt want to go thru that. I have a health issue myself that my Atkins WOL helped, I have high blood pressure have had it since I was 18 and had to take meds for it. I no longer have to take anything and do very well, but thats just me. I want you to know I dont think Atkins will kill me, but I support your decision to watch out for your own health and change what you need to change.

[toni marie]

Cartmanis, I totally agree with you.

I don't understand how people can LIVE off of all of that unatural food.

Just my opinion, I couldn't go without meat or veggies for a whole day.

[Hungry247]

Hey we're all atkinsers or some form of it, right? Let's do a study...How many of us are suffering from kidney stones??

I'm not...

[Iowagirl]

None here.

[PilotGal]

Did anyone follow the Women's World Weight Lifting competition on TV last month?

They interviewed all the women that were going after the World Championship Title...

All of the women said, they eat NO carbs, NO fat, and exist on water and steamed protein and steamed veggies....

The narrator of this show mentioned how these women were bringing their body fat levels down below 30%... He also said that a female, bringing her body fat down that low is dangerous to her health, her menses, and prolonged health problems..

It doesn't sound healthy to me...
:::grabbing my jug of water too::: :D

[Built]

30%? I think this might be a typo.

Bodybuilders like to get into the single digits for comp, but they don't stay there. Female bodybuilders at 10-13% look VERY lean, and ripped to shreds.

Body fat levels this low are not dangerous, but your periods may well stop for a bit. They start up again when your bodyfat raises back up a few percent, though. And there are PLENTY of women who maintain their bodyfat at 14-15% with no problems. Personally, I'm trying for the high teens.

Oh, and please keep in mind that unless a contest specifically says "natural", the bodybuilders you see have probably ALL done steroids to achieve their look. That being said, NOBODY looks like they do on contest day at any other time than contest day.

[black57]

30% body fat is high. Athletes tend to go over board with 10% body fat. This becomes dangerous and can cause a cessation in menses which occurs in anorexics. My body fat is 30% give or take and you can pinch way more than an inch of that.

[2brickie]

My body fat before I went on low carb was only 26 percent and it was pudgy. I think you could safely be around 18 or 19 percent if you worked out every day.

[black57]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004 I was diagnosised with kidney stones. Caused by Atkins? Jury is out on that but I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience, never before. Opted to do a lithotripsy ( laser that crushes the stones) on May 20. :Puke:


Well the jury is back on the cause of your kidney stones. Did Atkins cause it?
Studies at Duke Uni and elsewhere have PROVEN that Atkins not only has no negative effect on liver function, kidney function or bone density--these worries are often cited by the diet's detractors--it actually has health benefits. If you want to see what these health benefits are read page 31 of First Magazine the July 12,2004 issue. :wave:

[FromVA]

Well, one good thing to come from the title of this thread is the information about kidney stones. Having been on Atkins, following the book to the letter with only a very few steps off the path, so to speak, I can report I have no kidney stones, no head-fog (which was a huge problem), no more headaches, don't pick up every "bug" that is within a mile radius like I used to...in other words, I am healthy. And the weight certainly didn't come off in four months, either ;)! I also don't exist on meat, cheese and bacon. (Where in the world did this misinformation originate, anyway??)

Dr. Atkins said not to start this WOE without seeing a doctor first, original poster's first mistake, IMHO. Second mistake was in not seeing the doctor for the chronic lower-back pain after the condition persisted more than two weeks. Third mistake was coming to this site and starting a thread titled, "LC almost killed me!". Want to post information about possible health issues on this board? Try a different title! One such as "Doctor says kidney stones caused by LC WOE" would have gotten a much better reception.

Dr. A also says this WOE isn't for everyone, for a variety of reasons. It is time for the original poster to move on.

[selphydeg]

I don't understand all the hostility going back and forth. Personally, I am sold on Atkin diet's ability's to loose weight. However, no scientific study is 100%. We are all different and susceptible to different risks. A warning to those who think that everything in the Atkins book is 100% correct and those who are so sure that Atkins cause all kind of ailment. It doesn't matter if there are studies out there that praise Atkins or bash Atkins. All it matter is that you do whatever makes you feel well. My boyfriend and I are on the modified Atkins. Meaning we skip the rice, bread, cake, pasta, potato, but we don't shy away from LC tortilla, sometimes I put a teaspoon of corn starch in sauces, use a pinch of sugar in savory food to balance out the flavor, and we don't use measuring cups on low carb vegetables (eat as much as we like). I feel great and he has lost 30 lbs. My boyfriend is eating alot more vegetables now than he use to despite popular belief that people on Atkins eat eggs and bacons all day. Before Atkins, he would eat potato or pasta as side dishes, but now his only choice is vegetable. I, on the other hand, still eat the same amount of vegetable and seafood (big fan of fish and shrimp), more meat than I use to, and no more rice and noodles (I am Asian). For those who felt weird on LC, then I praise you for trying out something more moderate. For those who felt energetic and fit on LC, then keep up the good work.

[Ladycody]

Something to think about....
It truly doesnt matter if you're overweight and a study PROVES that the BEST way to lose weight is a low calorie/low fat diet UNLESS you're able to put it into action. Many people doing atkins are successful because they can enjoy life and lose weight at the same time. If you're unable to stick to a diet then it's virtually worthless. I can follow atkins, eat what most people consider to be very healthy foods, drink a ton of water, lose weight so that I can breathe going up stairs and my joints will stop hurting, and basically remain healthy. OR...I can attempt a diet that is far more restrictive, get frustrated, feel hungry, quit (been there & done that) and keep the weight on so that my joints still hurt and I cant breathe well when doing anything that requires some small level of exertion. I'm doing what works for me and trying my best to avoid the potential pitfalls (by drinking a ton of water and not getting my carbs from junk). Bottom line is that whatever will work (within reason) for an individual that is obese should be applauded.

[zedgirl]

Well, one good thing to come from the title of this thread is the information about kidney stones.

Yes, so for future reference I thought I’d add this excerpt from the book ‘Life Without Bread’. It is in the chapter about Heart Disease risk factors.


Uric Acid and Kidney Stones

An elevated level of uric acid is another risk factor for heart disease, the significance of which has been noted for years. The uric acid present in humans is a metabolite of dietary protein and nucleotides (or nucleic acids), both components of the cell nucleus.
High blood levels of uric acid are associated with deposition of uric acid in tissues, in urinary stones, or in the kidneys. With a low-carbohydrate diet, the intake of meat, and therefore that of nucleic acids and proteins, is increased. Consequently, the uric-acid levels should rise.
However, exactly the opposite happens. Figure 6.3 shows what happened to 193 patients with elevated uric acid levels under a low-carbohydrate diet. As you can see, the concentration of uric acid dropped immediately and reached a low point after four months. From then on, it slowly increased again until it stabilized at an intermediate value. The diet has a definite lowering effect on uric acid. Therefore, one may conclude that high uric-acid levels are caused at least partially by dietary carbohydrates.
For a long time, it has been known that infusion of sugar solutions, especially fructose and sorbitol, cause a quick elevation of uric acid. This is due to an overproduction of uric acid and not due to lowered excretion, because the rise in uric acid after sugar infusion can be suppressed by the body, using allopurinol. Allopurinol inhibits the enzyme xanthine oxidase, which aids in the production of uric acid. So it seems that carbohydrates stimulate uric-acid production. This alone should be a reason to put people with elevated uric-acid levels on a carbohydrate-restricted diet.
The fact that some levels rose over time shows that there certainly are cases of individuals who depart from the norm and experience a further rise in uric acid after a carbohydrate-restrictive diet is in place. The patients whose uric-acid levels increased had parallel changes in their cholesterol levels. These people probably had a metabolic disorder that was uncorrectable by a low-carbohydrate diet.

[Anna2004]

I have been following the Atkins diet since January 2004. Acheived my goal weight and other than feeling very tired all the time enjoyed the new thin me. I did pay a price though......In April 2004 I was diagnosised with kidney stones. Caused by Atkins? Jury is out on that but I had constant back pain during my whole low carb experience, never before. Opted to do a lithotripsy ( laser that crushes the stones) on May 20. :mad: A simple 1/2 hr procedure turned into a week long fight for me to live. My body rejected every aspertame, nutrasweet, slpenda, and any other fake crap I have put in it over the past six months. I broke out in rashes, vomited for 5 days. Finally after the talk of a feeding by IV, I grabbed white bread toast and grits and by GOD I KEPT IT DOWN!!!! My Atkins warped brain could understand that your body needs carbs to heal, to run as well oiled machine. I am not sure what path to take my maintnance down. All low carb foods still make me feel like vomiting. This is not Atkins bashing, it is warning. :Puke:
Hello Tobe 140,

I have read your experience “low carb almost killed me”. I hope you are feeling better now and that you haven’t any further problems.
Well, I have a friend who is actually writing a book about Anti-Atkins. And at the moment she is looking for someone who did Atkins and might sharing him/hers experience with her. Maybe you will send her an e-mail and tell your story. I am sure that she will be very happy to have some negative aspects (like yours) of Atkins that could happen and everybody should know BEFORE starting. Of course she will publish your experience in her book but if you have any further questions about the book (and …) don’t hesitate to contact her (Elli_Journalist~web.de).
I wish you and all the others good luck with atkins. Hoping all of you are tolerant and understand my appeal. But she is a very good friendJ And if anybody wants to share there problems / experience with her please mail to her. She is also German but spend a year in New York… J

Have a nice day.
Yours,
Anna

[AtkinsBOY1]

I've always been told that the antibiotics prescribed for urinary tract infections can cause kidney stones, especially if you don't drink enough water with them. (Interestingly, now that I'm doing low-carb, I never seem to get the UTIs anymore. My guess is that the lack of sugar in my diet and the lower blood glucose are helping.)

Sorry to hear of your troubles! But I wouldn't give up on LC.
That why i drink up to 15 cups of water or even more.