Mean and Lean with the Warrior Diet

[watcher16]

Why are you not interested in things that work?

Although I am trying very hard to form a group of users of the Warrior Diet this is not going fast enough.

Like the threadstarter 'Why are you SO obese' I am coming from German BB forums, so I don't understand why people don't start using things that work.

This one life-style got me from 30% BF to 18% in a year. A transformation I would say.

But I get so little reactions here, I would like to have more feedback, to reassure myself but also to find new tips&trics. Even harsh critics are very welcome, I don't take it personally, so come and let me have it ;) !

Help!

[AFwife]

I haven't seen anyone else on the Warrior Diet, maybe that's why your not getting a response.

Good luck!

[Lisa N]

Like the threadstarter 'Why are you SO obese' I am coming from German BB forums, so I don't understand why people don't start using things that work.

Watcher, you have to understand that this is a very different group of people here than you will find on a hardcore bodybuilding forum.
From what I've read of the Warrior diet, it is a low cal, low fat program that doesn't appear to be very low carb; lower than the average person perhaps. Now, if you are training hard it's possible that you need more carbs but the majority of people here are not training that hard; excercising, yes...but not at those intensity levels for the most part.
Why don't people start using things that work? I guess that depends on your objective and your definition of what "works" is. The majority of people here are interested in losing weight and improving their health, not getting a bodybuilder physique and many here are quite successful at losing large amounts of weight following low carb as well as getting off a variety of medications. Based on that, I'd say it works very well. :)
Different methods, different objectives.

[kyrasdad]

Could you link to information on the Warrior Diet? As to something "that works," Atkins has been terrific for me.

[potatofree]

Frankly, I haven't responded because you've been so pushy, overbearing and rude about it in many threads I've seen.

You DID ask....

[Kristine]

>>"Why are you not interested in things that work?"

That's what we're all interested in. It only WORKS, however, if it fits into your lifestyle and you enjoy it. My method - Protein Power maintenance, a few light workouts per week, lots of walking - works perfectly for me. I'm only interested in what works for other people as general interest.

---------
Kristine, who hasn't set foot in a gym in years

[Lisa N]

Could you link to information on the Warrior Diet? As to something "that works," Atkins has been terrific for me.


Here you go! :)
http://www.warriordiet.com/about.html

[Kristine]

Thanks for the link.

Hmmm... deliberate undereating followed by deliberate overeating at night. Heh heh... It appears I've already done the warrior diet, but back then, it was called an eating disorder. ;)

I don't doubt that this plan would work nicely for many people, but psychology is the trump card when it comes to habit change. Grazing works best for me.

[watcher16]

In this thread you find some more links and info

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=177507

[watcher16]

http://www.earth-religions.com/The_Warrior_Diet_0938045350.html

some customer reviews.

[mcsblues]

I am very interested in things that work.

You say "This one life-style got me from 30% BF to 18% in a year. A transformation I would say."

Congratulations.

Mind you my low carb transformation has been greater, and quicker (5 months) so I am sure you will be interested in that.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[watcher16]

Hello Malcolm,

I have read your posts and visited the protein power discussion board. Very interesting. It looks like what you do and I do have a large area of overlap.


What is your excercise program and what do you eat in a typical day?

[fridayeyes]

[QUOTE=watcher16]Why are you not interested in things that work?

This one life-style got me from 30% BF to 18% in a year. A transformation I would say. [QUOTE]

Congrats on your progress. If it works for you and you like it, go for it. However...


30% - 18% - a difference of 12 percentage points.

That's 1 percentage point per MONTH.

On BFL, I lose about one percentage point per WEEK, maybe two weeks if things are moving a bit slowly. So, I would say that I AM ALREADY doing what works. Incidentally, I also added about 10 lbs of lean mass during the last 12 weeks.

If people are interested in building a community with you around the Warrior diet, it will happen. But it won't happen by proselytizing, insults (you are implying that nothing here 'works') or shoving things down people's throats.

Also, your post about gorging at night where no one can see you so that you can smugly undereat in front of people the next day? That sounds like an eating disorder followed by a severe attitude problem.

Cheers,

Friday

[Galadriell]

Quote from the interview with the AUTHOR of this diet:

T: Tell me about the results that you've attained from being on the Warrior diet. I mean, how much do you weigh, how lean are you, and how long have you been following these principles? I've heard that you're ripped and hard as granite.

OH: Well, I've been on the Warrior diet, religiously, for the last year—and on and off for many years. Genetically, I come from a lean family. But you know, I look around at some of my relatives, and they've gotten fat and soft. So, I think that my results are a combination of genes and my own behavior, mostly the behavior.

I really practice the Warrior diet. My fat ranges between four and five percent. My bodyweight is 165 pounds, and I'm 5'9" tall. So, yeah, I can say that I'm ripped and hard.

T: Do you have athletes who you put on the Warrior diet and, in particular, bodybuilders?

OH: I haven't had any bodybuilders try it, yet. But I've had athletes in other sports, like the martial arts, go on the Warrior diet with great success.

T: Have you had large, muscular athletes on the program?

OH: No, but I'm sure that it will work.

T: So, in essence, most of the people that you've seen go on the Warrior diet are smaller athletes or average people.
T: What about the people who train in the morning?

OH: I have a big problem with working out in the morning. You need to overeat about an hour after the workout, otherwise you might not receive anything from the training; you might even crash. So, for those crazy people who wake up and start their workout at 6 o'clock in the morning, I would say that the Warrior diet is not perfect for them. They can adjust it, but it's just not perfect for them. The Warrior diet's designed around an evening workout. Anyway, there's more and more research showing that the peak time to work out is actually after 6pm.


It does not seem to be a very diverse, huge group of people who even tried this. No clinical trial, even the endorsements seem from a narrow group. I do not say that it does not work, but maybe we should wait for a little more info before jumping into it.

There are many OTHER, older LC diets - with huge success. Somehow they WORK:-) So please, do not assume that people here are ignorant only because chosing OTHER working plans:-)))

Regarding your repeated reference to the unity of German BB forums. The "mine is the only working way, anything else is waste of time" - is alien for many international forums. Btw German members of these international forums tend to be much more tolerant:-)))

[mcsblues]

"Hello Malcolm,

I have read your posts and visited the protein power discussion board. Very interesting. It looks like what you do and I do have a large area of overlap."

- Well apart from your desire to do a low carb version of this diet, I don't think we overlap a whole lot! (By the way eating icecream and chocolate for dessert is hardly low carb)

Protein Power is similar to Atkins - the only significant differences are the approach to the intervention/induction phase and attitudes to things like caffeine and alcohol. The Eades came up with the concept of effective carb counts (Carbs minus fibre) since adopted by Atkins (net carbs). Atkins now goes further and discounts sugar alcohols - which I don't.

Your plan of eating little during the day and saving yourself for a binge at night, reminds me of what I ended up doing when I was convinced by "experts" that low fat (high carb) was the way to good health. Nothing could be further from the truth, and as Kristine says this type of behaviour either is, or can certainly lead to, serious eating disorders. By the way , yes I did lose weight the low fat way, but for me it least, it was impossible to sustain.

The founder of "the Warrior Diet" seems to have started out with a basic hunter gatherer/real non processed food philosophy, something that underpins most low carb eating plans. He then seems to have lost his way by extolling the virtues of grains (not part of a hunter gatherer diet) and if you are an example, allowing free rein over any processed and sugar filled junk food - as long as you eat it at night!

Like I said before, congratulations on your weight loss, but take the time to watch and read this and other low carb forums, which describe a way of life that not only works, it provides the basis for lifelong good health with a sensible and easy to follow way of eating.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[watcher16]

~All,

Hey this is the War Zone!

So this must be the right place to get reactions. And it is, because now I get reactions from people that have results to show. That gives me input for further investigation.

[watcher16]

No clinical trial, even the endorsements seem from a narrow group. I do not say that it does not work, but maybe we should wait for a little more info before jumping into it.
Clinical results about fasting show that there are great benefits. Intermittent fasting seems to be also very good. So the cleaning aspect of the Warrior Diet may get support from science.

There are many OTHER, older LC diets - with huge success. Somehow they WORK:-) So please, do not assume that people here are ignorant only because chosing OTHER working plans:-)))
I wouldn't want to :)

Regarding your repeated reference to the unity of German BB forums. The "mine is the only working way, anything else is waste of time" - is alien for many international forums. Btw German members of these international forums tend to be much more tolerant:-)))
I was only referring to the 'why are you SO obese' thread to mention there can also be sharp discussion producing results, because the pro and contra get clear on subjects. The big advantage in diets is they can be tested against the results they produce. In arguing it would for instance show whether results are short term- or long term-originated for the person coming with an opinion. In know that is not practised here very much or not at all, but in the War Zone I feel free to get results quickly.

[Lisa N]

Clinical results about fasting show that there are great benefits. Intermittent fasting seems to be also very good. So the cleaning aspect of the Warrior Diet may get support from science.

Perhaps, but then why negate the possible good that the undereating/fasting phase did by then eating foods that put the toxins right back in your system again (espresso, coffee, cookies, ice cream, etc...)? Many of these foods are filled with chemicals and transfats that are not good for anybody.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=2084922#post2084922

I rather doubt that the cultures to whom the author refers were eating things like that, nor were they eating much along the lines of grains.
I also seriously doubt that these cultures were overeating every night but rather when they hunters and gatherers were unusually successful.

[watcher16]

Perhaps, but then why negate the possible good that the undereating/fasting phase did by then eating foods that put the toxins right back in your system again (espresso, coffee, cookies, ice cream, etc...)? Many of these foods are filled with chemicals and transfats that are not good for anybody.
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=2084922#post2084922

I rather doubt that the cultures to whom the author refers were eating things like that, nor were they eating much along the lines of grains.
I also seriously doubt that these cultures were overeating every night but rather when they hunters and gatherers were unusually successful.
Ah, but I don´t believe that a good idea needs to be followed in it´s extremity. The idea itself is simple, to fill a book or to be a lifetime achievement an author works it out. Maybe in the wrong direction.

I found the not eating-full eating idea by myself, later I found this was an existing diet. The low-carb idea I found everywhere, is working also OK for me, so the result is my own Warrior Diet implementation. KISS works just fine for me.

About the "espresso, coffee, cookies, ice cream, etc...": The caffein is very helpful in losing fat, the cookies are pure sin, the ice cream has a very helpful meaning in my variation. Although I take it only now and then it gives a very luxurious accent in my life-style. Besides that I don´t believe it to be bad in substance at all. The calcium in the ice, and the cacao in chocolat haver very good influence on the whole well-being of the human species....:D

So freedom and happiness!

[watcher16]

30% - 18% - a difference of 12 percentage points.

That's 1 percentage point per MONTH.

On BFL, I lose about one percentage point per WEEK, maybe two weeks if things are moving a bit slowly. So, I would say that I AM ALREADY doing what works. Incidentally, I also added about 10 lbs of lean mass during the last 12 weeks.

One percentage point per week of two weeks is extremely fast. I´ll be happy to look how you do that, and maybe pick some tips&trics.

I think I am going OK though, if I reach 12% at jan 05 I will be extremely satisfied. I expect to have to struggle some to get there.

I hope to stay in reasonable limits in discussion, sorry if I offended you. Sharpness should be allowed though, to tast one´s diet-kidney´s you have to prick your finger in one´s guts, right?

[Lisa N]

The calcium in the ice, and the cacao in chocolat haver very good influence on the whole well-being of the human species....

You might want to check the rest of the ingredients in those things and then do some research on hydrogentated oils/transfats and high fructose corn syrup before continuing to claim these things are of benefit. If those treats contain either of those things (not to mention all the other chemicals and preservatives they contain), you would be far better off getting your cocao and calcium from healthier sources. :rolleyes:

Sharpness should be allowed though, to tast one´s diet-kidney´s you have to prick your finger in one´s guts, right?

Other than in the War Zone which was specifically created for anti-low carb debate (and even here flames, insults, etc..are not permitted), responses on this board should be worded politely and respectfully (see forum rule #3). Disagreement is fine as long as it's done politely and within the boundaries of the forum rules.

[potatofree]

<guarding my kidneys> It sounds to me like your plan is pretty loosely based on anything, actually. I'm all for "tweaking" a plan to suit the individual, but I don't think binging on ice cream, cookes, chocolate and such would really be benificial, no matter HOW you try to rationalize it.

There is a certain amount of science and structure to BFL's "free day" and the reward meal of CAD. The plans have documented success in spite of having allowed foods the other plans don't. I think I'll wait to see how your controlled studies and clinical trials go...

[watcher16]

I'm afraid you make the same mistake towards my diet as the uninformed non-atkinsers do to the atkins diet: not reading good what it is about:

I eat for 90% very healthy and the focus is on the 10% that is maybe not so healthy...:(

[Lisa N]

I'm afraid you make the same mistake towards my diet as the uninformed non-atkinsers do to the atkins diet: not reading good what it is about:

I eat for 90% very healthy and the focus is on the 10% that is maybe not so healthy...:(

Watcher, the only reason I commented on that 10% is because I find it a little ironic that you would promote the detoxifying benefits of fasting and then continue to eat foods that basically put the toxins right back in your body.
As for reading good what your diet is about, that may be a little difficult for most of us since even you admit that it's comprised of bits and pieces of things that you have read and then combined yourself.

I found the not eating-full eating idea by myself, later I found this was an existing diet. The low-carb idea I found everywhere, is working also OK for me, so the result is my own Warrior Diet implementation.

[mrfreddy]

I have a friend who lost a lot of weight doing Atkins in what you might call "warrior style". Not sure if he ever heard of it, but he liked to eat just one huge meal a day, always low carb tho... btw, he's an ex-marine and vietnam vet, so maybe there something to this warrior mentality thing?

[watcher16]

I have a friend who lost a lot of weight doing Atkins in what you might call "warrior style". Not sure if he ever heard of it, but he liked to eat just one huge meal a day, always low carb tho... btw, he's an ex-marine and vietnam vet, so maybe there something to this warrior mentality thing?
Ori Hofmekler learned about fasting while in the Israeli Navy Seals. His knowledge comes from experiencing these things himself. Afterwards he formed his theory, already knowing it worked.

I like it also very much, I would not know if it has to do with what kind of person one is :)

[watcher16]

Frankly, I haven't responded because you've been so pushy, overbearing and rude about it in many threads I've seen.

You DID ask....
While accepting your critics I would also like to hear some substantial information, I looks like the dieting is a form of new addiction to some. Is that why the substance is avoided?

Just like the dietary science has missed the essentials in the past decades the 'new believers' don't want to measure the real effects of diets?

[Lisa N]

While accepting your critics I would also like to hear some substantial information, I looks like the dieting is a form of new addiction to some. Is that why the substance is avoided?

Just like the dietary science has missed the essentials in the past decades the 'new believers' don't want to measure the real effects of diets?

Watcher, here's some thoughts for you since you seem interested in substance:

Post a comparison between the major low carb plans (Protein Power, Atkins, CAD, Schwarzbein Principle) and your Warrior diet. Be specific as to the content of each plan. Tell us what the pros and cons are (in your opinion) between the Warrior Diet and these plans. Also consider the main objective of each plan and whether it is suitable for a larger or smaller segment of the population (ie is it directed at a specific group of serious athletes or more directed towards the average person who may exercise, but not at high intensity levels or many hours a week?). But...be prepared to post studies and research to back up your opinions.
How do you measure the "real effects" of your way of eating? Is it based on weight and body fat percentage only or also on blood tests?
Is it fair to compare plans whose primary objectives are geared toward weight loss and better health (as evidenced by improved blood tests) with a plan whose primary objective seems to be on maximimzing the potential of serious weight training?
You imply that your plan works and works better than all these others. What is this based on? Studies, personal experience, anecdotal evidence?
As I've mentioned before, many here have lost tremendous amounts of weight and many more have seen amazing, measureable, improvements in their health through low carbing on various plans. If you're going to claim that your plan would work better, then you'll need to show how and what that claim is based on.

[potatofree]

I agree with LisaN-- if you would post actual FACTS and not just try to push a half-baked theory on people as the one true way, more people would be receptive. Until then, most will continue to dismiss what you have to say.

[watcher16]

I agree with LisaN-- if you would post actual FACTS and not just try to push a half-baked theory on people as the one true way, more people would be receptive. Until then, most will continue to dismiss what you have to say.
You repeat yourself. And without substance.

[potatofree]

That's because I'm still waiting for you to give us something to GO ON. You've been vague and outright evasive when asked to spell out the FACTS behind your plan.

[watcher16]

Watcher, here's some thoughts for you since you seem interested in substance:

Post a comparison between the major low carb plans (Protein Power, Atkins, CAD, Schwarzbein Principle) and your Warrior diet. Be specific as to the content of each plan. Tell us what the pros and cons are (in your opinion) between the Warrior Diet and these plans. Also consider the main objective of each plan and whether it is suitable for a larger or smaller segment of the population (ie is it directed at a specific group of serious athletes or more directed towards the average person who may exercise, but not at high intensity levels or many hours a week?). But...be prepared to post studies and research to back up your opinions.
How do you measure the "real effects" of your way of eating? Is it based on weight and body fat percentage only or also on blood tests?
Is it fair to compare plans whose primary objectives are geared toward weight loss and better health (as evidenced by improved blood tests) with a plan whose primary objective seems to be on maximimzing the potential of serious weight training?
You imply that your plan works and works better than all these others. What is this based on? Studies, personal experience, anecdotal evidence?
As I've mentioned before, many here have lost tremendous amounts of weight and many more have seen amazing, measureable, improvements in their health through low carbing on various plans. If you're going to claim that your plan would work better, then you'll need to show how and what that claim is based on.
Since I was asking for comments from others I don't see the reason to go on a personal queeste :roll: against other diets. Besides that I have an idea about the quality of such a discussion, seen the before reactions...

What I wanted:
Get some discussion going on things that do work for people (mine being one of them), this is different from using articles and wordcalling as ammunition against each other. Personal experiences and scientific results are the things I would like to use. Nothing else.

That is staying with the facts....

[watcher16]

That's because I'm still waiting for you to give us something to GO ON. You've been vague and outright evasive when asked to spell out the FACTS behind your plan.
This is getting crazy, FACTS behind a plan?

I informed about what I do, and the results. That are FACTS.

Most diets are not based on facts at all...:rolleyes:

[potatofree]

Obviously NOT. Good luck to you, and I hope you find the kind of discussion you're looking for. You seem to be digging for something when all I wanted was a simple explanation of how you quantify the results of your plan, as Lisa N spelled out for you.

[Lisa N]

Since I was asking for comments from others I don't see the reason to go on a personal queeste against other diets.

Watcher...below are the first 2 lines from your original post in this thread:

Why are you not interested in things that work?
Although I am trying very hard to form a group of users of the Warrior Diet this is not going fast enough.

What that seems to say to me is that a) you don't think what I (and the majority of other members on this board) am currently doing works/is working and b) you were only interested in finding others who are currently following the Warrior Diet or recruiting people to follow it and you were expressing frustration that you weren't getting the following you wanted as fast as you wanted.

Personal experiences and scientific results are the things I would like to use. Nothing else.

Great! But I'd like to point out that personal experiences are not scientific by any means; they are anecdotal evidence only. You also haven't outlined what you consider scientific results (which is one of the things I asked you to do above). Simply saying, "I did this and got this result" is not scientific. It's anecdotal/subjective.

I informed about what I do, and the results. That are FACTS.

Not exactly. Facts are verifiable, irrefutable and not open to discussion. Reporting on what you did and the results is subjective evidence unless you were being monitored under controlled conditions by an objective party and confounding factors were accounted for.
One person experimenting with themselves and self-reporting the results does not a scientific study make and may or may not be fact since they are open to the interpretation of the person doing the self-reporting and dependent on how accurate that self-reporting is.

What I wanted:
Get some discussion going on things that do work for people (mine being one of them

Watcher, there are discussions going on all over the board about what people are doing and how it is working for them. I'm a little puzzled why you would choose to seek a discussion on such things here in the War Zone instead of reading discussions already in progress unless you are looking to have a discussion about why you think low carb doesn't work. The War Zone is a designated area for anti-low carb debate not a place to compare plan results, although from what I've read of the Warrior Diet, it's not what most here would consider a low carb plan since any and all foods are allowed at your one large meal of the day.

[Kestrel]

A number of people on another board amend the Warrior Diet to follow a low-carb style And, to some degree, the whole idea is nothing new; I think we're all acquainted with someone thats in the habit of eating no breakfast, and having a small lunch, followed by a big evening meal. Whether it works or not probably depends how the person is administering the whole plan.

[watcher16]

Great! But I'd like to point out that personal experiences are not scientific by any means; they are anecdotal evidence only. You also haven't outlined what you consider scientific results (which is one of the things I asked you to do above). Simply saying, "I did this and got this result" is not scientific. It's anecdotal/subjective.&
... Facts are verifiable, irrefutable and not open to discussion. Reporting on what you did and the results is subjective evidence unless you were being monitored under controlled conditions by an objective party and confounding factors were accounted for.
One person experimenting with themselves and self-reporting the results does not a scientific study make and may or may not be fact since they are open to the interpretation of the person doing the self-reporting and dependent on how accurate that self-reporting is.
When I measure my body weight that is a fact to me. Not to another, Ok, but still a fact. You can tell me the type of car you own, no doubt that will be a fact to yourself. Not to me according to your definition. But to get somewhere I will accept that for a fact.

I am aware of the difference between a scientific study and personal facts.

What that seems to say to me is that a) you don't think what I (and the majority of other members on this board) am currently doing works/is working and b) you were only interested in finding others who are currently following the Warrior Diet or recruiting people to follow it and you were expressing frustration that you weren't getting the following you wanted as fast as you wanted. & Watcher, there are discussions going on all over the board about what people are doing and how it is working for them. I'm a little puzzled why you would choose to seek a discussion on such things here in the War Zone instead of reading discussions already in progress unless you are looking to have a discussion about why you think low carb doesn't work. The War Zone is a designated area for anti-low carb debate not a place to compare plan results,No place for me? I want to construct a kind of experimental lab, where what works, idea's and science get driven into one's diet-variant by means of verbal assisimilation. A sword gets functional and tempered in the fire by repeatedly hammering, heating an cooling!

although from what I've read of the Warrior Diet, it's not what most here would consider a low carb plan since any and all foods are allowed at your one large meal of the day.Compared to standard food my warrior diet is low carb I would say. In the post above there is also mentioning of low carb variations on the warrior diet.

[watcher16]

A number of people on another board amend the Warrior Diet to follow a low-carb style And, to some degree, the whole idea is nothing new; I think we're all acquainted with someone thats in the habit of eating no breakfast, and having a small lunch, followed by a big evening meal. Whether it works or not probably depends how the person is administering the whole
plan.
Kestrel, you would make me so happy if you could provide a link? :)

I indeed in earlier day took no breakfast, ate late at night a second time, so I felt like coming home on this diet...

[medic23]

Only time will tell how the Warrior diet will work out in the long run, but I've been doing it for a month now and have seen results that are just as impressive as a low carb diet, BUT NOT AS DIFFICULT AS LOW CARB! That's right I said it, the warrior diet is easier. Everything the book says about being more alert and focused without having all the cravings is true. Originally I wasn't even going to try it because of all the negative things people have said about it on various forums. Then I thought "wait a second, people have been (and still are) disputing the effectiveness of low carb, and I KNOW that works...". So I read the book (very important) and slowly started eating my meals later and later into the day. I started at 185lbs and 29%bf....now a month later and I'm 168lbs and 22%bf. So if its not for you great....but please don't bash something you've never tried!

[Wildcard]

I am on a diet that is very similar to the warrior diet, except that I eat NO breakfast, NO lunch, and then dinner till I am full, and a late dinner just till I am full.

I would think that the warrior diet would be torture for me because, when I eat ANYTHING in the morning, I will almost certainly be starving before long and I will end up eating 1.8 times what I should be eating to lose weight.

[Iowagirl]

I read the book last year and enjoyed it. I liked the way he compared this way of eating to the way Roman soldiers ate (light during the day, lots of exercise - chowing down when they made camp at night). It was all very inspiring. So I tried it. I honestly don't remember how many days I tried it (3?) - I do know I spent most of them in the restroom. Suffice to say I would have made a poor warrior on this diet. :)

Glad it is working for others.

[Wildcard]

Some major advantages of a warrior-like diet for me are :

1. Dont have to fix anything before going to work, either for breakfast, or for lunch.

2. Dont eat out at lunch time like most of my colleagues. Saves me money and prevents me from eating the junk food that most people get for lunch.

3. I eat my meals after work, when I am at home and can prepare my own meals. Again, this saves a lot of money, is efficient use of time, and allows me to eat healthier.