Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome - another reason to cut refined carbs

[Tcomeau]

Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome

It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.

http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html

from the merck manual:

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244/-
ch244g.jsp

Quote from merck, even they agree
*****
Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms, the
woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy. Often, a
biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to make sure no
cancer is present.

If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help. Exercising
(at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing consumption of
carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta, potatoes, and sweets)
can help lower insulin levels. In some women, weight loss
lowers insulin levels enough that ovulation can begin. Weight
loss may help reduce hair growth and the risk of thickening of
the uterine lining.
***

Another health problem associated with a high carb diet. How
many more are there?

TC

[Jmk]

Is this something that you are experiencing?

On 4/20/2004 12:45 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome
>
> It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.
>
> http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml
>
> http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html
>
> http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html
>
> from the merck manual:
>
> http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244/ch-
> 244g.jsp
>
> Quote from merck, even they agree
> *****
> Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
> treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms, the
> woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy. Often, a
> biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to make sure no
> cancer is present.
>
> If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help.
> Exercising (at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing
> consumption of carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta,
> potatoes, and sweets) can help lower insulin levels. In some
> women, weight loss lowers insulin levels enough that
> ovulation can begin. Weight loss may help reduce hair growth
> and the risk of thickening of the uterine lining.
> ***
>
> Another health problem associated with a high carb diet. How
> many more are there?
>
> TC

--
jmk in NC

[Tcomeau]

jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c63lpb$7fbh1$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Is this something that you are experiencing?
>
> On 4/20/2004 12:45 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> > Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome
> >
> > It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.
> >
> > http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml
> >
> > http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html
> >
> > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html
> >
> > from the merck manual:
> >
> > http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244/-
> > ch244g.jsp
> >
> > Quote from merck, even they agree
> > *****
> > Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
> > treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms,
> > the woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy. Often,
> > a biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to make sure
> > no cancer is present.
> >
> > If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help.
> > Exercising (at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing
> > consumption of carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta,
> > potatoes, and sweets) can help lower insulin levels. In
> > some women, weight loss lowers insulin levels enough that
> > ovulation can begin. Weight loss may help reduce hair
> > growth and the risk of thickening of the uterine lining.
> > ***
> >
> > Another health problem associated with a high carb diet.
> > How many more are there?
> >
> > TC

Do you think that this is a joke? Do you think that this is
funny?

TC

[Moosh:)]

On 20 Apr 2004 09:45:37 -0700, tunderbar@hotmail.com
(tcomeau) posted:

>Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome
>
>It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.
>
>http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml
>
>http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html
>
>http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html
>
>from the merck manual:
>
>http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244/c-
>h244g.jsp
>
>Quote from merck, even they agree
>*****
>Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
>treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms, the
>woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy. Often, a
>biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to make sure no
>cancer is present.
>
>If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help.
>Exercising (at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing
>consumption of carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta,
>potatoes, and sweets) can help lower insulin levels. In some
>women, weight loss lowers insulin levels enough that
>ovulation can begin. Weight loss may help reduce hair growth
>and the risk of thickening of the uterine lining.
>***
>
>Another health problem associated with a high carb diet. How
>many more are there?

What's new? Diabetes and POS? If you have liver disease,
you reduce your fat intake. Horses for courses. You seem to
have some strange negative karma with carbohydrates. One of
the simplest (glucose) courses through everyone's veins
every second of every day of every year of their lives. Get
used to it!

[Moosh:)]

On 20 Apr 2004 14:11:02 -0700, tunderbar@hotmail.com
(tcomeau) posted:

>jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:<c63lpb$7fbh1$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>> Is this something that you are experiencing?
>>
>> On 4/20/2004 12:45 PM, tcomeau wrote:
>> > Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome
>> >
>> > It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.
>> >
>> > http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml
>> >
>> > http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html
>> >
>> > http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html
>> >
>> > from the merck manual:
>> >
>> > http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244-
>> > /ch244g.jsp
>> >
>> > Quote from merck, even they agree
>> > *****
>> > Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
>> > treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms,
>> > the woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy.
>> > Often, a biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to
>> > make sure no cancer is present.
>> >
>> > If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help.
>> > Exercising (at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing
>> > consumption of carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta,
>> > potatoes, and sweets) can help lower insulin levels. In
>> > some women, weight loss lowers insulin levels enough that
>> > ovulation can begin. Weight loss may help reduce hair
>> > growth and the risk of thickening of the uterine lining.
>> > ***
>> >
>> > Another health problem associated with a high carb diet.
>> > How many more are there?
>> >
>> > TC
>
>Do you think that this is a joke? Do you think that this
>is funny?

No but what are you appearing to claim is that this is
somehow new?

[Tcomeau]

"Moosh:)" <spam@less.ever> wrote in message
news:<qdpe80dfvlulpg9a0hb50pr459ocnmkcgh@4ax.com>...
> On 20 Apr 2004 09:45:37 -0700, tunderbar@hotmail.com
> (tcomeau) posted:
>
> >Polcystic Ovarian Syndrome
> >
> >It appears to be caused by a high carb diet.
> >
> >http://www.ccli.org/articles/pcos2.shtml
> >
> >http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/DS/00423.html
> >
> >http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~cp391990/carb.html
> >
> >from the merck manual:
> >
> >http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual_home2/sec22/ch244/c-
> >h244g.jsp
> >
> >Quote from merck, even they agree
> >*****
> >Treatment No ideal treatment is available. The choice of
> >treatment depends on the type and severity of symptoms, the
> >woman's age, and her plans regarding pregnancy. Often, a
> >biopsy of the uterine lining is performed to make sure no
> >cancer is present.
> >
> >If insulin levels are high, lowering them may help.
> >Exercising (at least 30 minutes a day) and reducing
> >consumption of carbohydrates (found in breads, pasta,
> >potatoes, and sweets) can help lower insulin levels. In
> >some women, weight loss lowers insulin levels enough that
> >ovulation can begin. Weight loss may help reduce hair
> >growth and the risk of thickening of the uterine lining.
> >***
> >
> >Another health problem associated with a high carb diet.
> >How many more are there?
>
>
> What's new? Diabetes and POS? If you have liver disease,
> you reduce your fat intake. Horses for courses. You seem to
> have some strange negative karma with carbohydrates. One of
> the simplest (glucose) courses through everyone's veins
> every second of every day of every year of their lives. Get
> used to it!

What's new for you is that a diet high in carbs leads to
diabetes t2, obesity, heart disease, PCOS and a myriad of
other ailments. A high carb diet is a dangerous and unhealthy
diet regardless of "genetic factors".

That is a fact. Get used to it!

TC

[Jmk]

The following is from
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
---
What doesn't cause diabetes

It's important to also be aware of the different myths that
over the years have arisen about the causes of diabetes.

Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is associated
with people developing Type 2 diabetes.

Stress does not cause diabetes, although it may be a trigger
for the body turning on itself as in the case of Type 1
diabetes. It does, however, make the symptoms worse for those
who already have diabetes.

--
jmk in NC

[Tcomeau]

jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> The following is from
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
> ---
> What doesn't cause diabetes
>
> It's important to also be aware of the different myths that
> over the years have arisen about the causes of diabetes.
>
> Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
> diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
> associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
>

Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to point
to to support this contention.

There are studies that show that elevated blood glucose kills
b cells in a dose dependent manner and most fats protect the b
cells. Pretty straightforward cause and effect.

> Stress does not cause diabetes, although it may be a trigger
> for the body turning on itself as in the case of Type 1
> diabetes. It does, however, make the symptoms worse for
> those who already have diabetes.

Stress causing diabetes? I've yet to hear anyone suggest
that it does.

TC

[Jmk]

On 4/22/2004 10:56 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>>The following is from
>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
>>---
>>What doesn't cause diabetes
>>
>>It's important to also be aware of the different myths that
>>over the years have arisen about the causes of diabetes.
>>
>>Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
>>diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
>>associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
>>
>
>
> Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to point
> to to support this contention.

See reference above

>
> There are studies that show that elevated blood
> glucose kills b cells in a dose dependent manner and
> most fats protect the b cells. Pretty straightforward
> cause and effect.

Please provide the appropriate citations.

--
jmk in NC

[Tcomeau]

jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c6ba3l$a2lqt$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> On 4/22/2004 10:56 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> > jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> >>The following is from
> >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
> >>---
> >>What doesn't cause diabetes
> >>
> >>It's important to also be aware of the different myths
> >>that over the years have arisen about the causes of
> >>diabetes.
> >>
> >>Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
> >>diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
> >>associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to
> > point to to support this contention.
>
> See reference above
>

Then the question is where do they get their info from?

> >
> > There are studies that show that elevated blood glucose
> > kills b cells in a dose dependent manner and most fats
> > protect the b cells. Pretty straightforward cause and
> > effect.
>
> Please provide the appropriate citations.

I will shortly.

TC

[Tcomeau]

jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c6ba3l$a2lqt$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> On 4/22/2004 10:56 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> > jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> >>The following is from
> >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
> >>---
> >>What doesn't cause diabetes
> >>
> >>It's important to also be aware of the different myths
> >>that over the years have arisen about the causes of
> >>diabetes.
> >>
> >>Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
> >>diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
> >>associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to
> > point to to support this contention.
>
> See reference above
>
> >
> > There are studies that show that elevated blood glucose
> > kills b cells in a dose dependent manner and most fats
> > protect the b cells. Pretty straightforward cause and
> > effect.
>
> Please provide the appropriate citations.

Here ya be:

http://www.eje.org/eje/149/0099/1490099.pdf

Interesting stuff. Here is an interesting quote:

"A series of studies (33–36) report on the roles of high
glucose concentrations and different free fatty acids (FFAs)
on b-cell proliferation, apoptosis and function in cultured
human islets. The results showed that A series of studies
(33–36) report on the roles of high glucose
concentrations and different free fatty acids (FFAs) on b-cell
proliferation, apoptosis and function in cultured human
islets. The results showed that prolonged exposure of cultured
human islets to high glucose levels increased b-cell apoptosis
in a dose-dependent manner. In addition, chronic exposure of
cultured human islets to the saturated fatty acid palmitic
acid results in increased markers of b-cell apoptosis and
decreased b-cell proliferation. However, the mono-unsaturated
fatty acids palmitoleic acid and oleic acid did not affect DNA
fragmentation and induced b-cell proliferation. Moreover when
co-supplemented, each of the monounsaturated fatty acids
prevented apoptosis, prevented impairment of b-cell
proliferation and improved insulin secretion that was caused
by palmitic acid and/or hyperglycemia. In addition, chronic
exposure of cultured human islets to the saturated fatty acid
palmitic acid results in increased markers of b-cell apoptosis
and decreased b-cell proliferation. However, the
mono-unsaturated fatty acids palmitoleic acid and oleic acid
did not affect DNA fragmentation and induced b-cell
proliferation. Moreover when co-supplemented, each of the
monounsaturated fatty acids prevented apoptosis, prevented
impairment of b-cell proliferation and improved insulin
secretion that was caused by palmitic acid and/or
hyperglycemia."

Repeat and partial quote: "prolonged exposure of cultured
human islets to high glucose levels increased b-cell apoptosis
in a dose-dependent manner."

I don't think this could be any clearer. The more glucose
b-cells were exposed to glucose and the higher the "dose" the
more apoptosis (cell death) occurred. I gather that this is
the not-so-mysterious-anymore glucotoxicity that we've heard
about. This statement seems to indicate that there is a
*direct* connection between blood sugar (glucose) levels and
b-cell death.

Repeat and partial quote: "In addition, chronic exposure of
cultured human islets to the saturated fatty acid palmitic
acid results in increased markers of b-cell apoptosis and
decreased b-cell proliferation."

Here we are told that *chronic* exposure to saturated fat
cause increased *markers* of b-cell death and decreased b-cell
proliferation. This isn't exactly saying that sat fat causes
b-cell death but only causes an increase in "markers" of
b-cell death. Can we assume that non-chronic exposures to
saturated fat does not neceassarily lead to b-cell death or
significant increase in markers of b-cell death?

Repeat and partial quote: "the mono-unsaturated fatty acids
palmitoleic acid and oleic acid did not affect DNA
fragmentation and induced b-cell proliferation. Moreover when
co-supplemented, each of the monounsaturated fatty acids
prevented apoptosis, prevented impairment of b-cell
proliferation and improved insulin secretion that was caused
by palmitic acid and/or hyperglycemia."

Mono-unsaturated fats prevented b-cell death and prevented
b-cells from suffering impaired proliferation and it improved
insulin secretion.

In conclusion,

1) Glucose impairs or kills b-cells directly dependent upon
the dose of glucose. Note that all carbs in the diet are
converted to glucose. The more the refined carbs the higher
the blood glucose levels.

2) Chronic levels of saturated fats cause some stress to
b-cells.

3) Mono-unsaturated fats protect and is necessary for the
health of b-cells.

Generally speaking, carbs cause b-cell death, fats protect
against it.

Interesting how the authors make the statements quoted above
and then ignore the ramifications of their findings related to
glucose and they spend most of their discussion on fats. Its
right under their noses.

TC

[Tcomeau]

jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<c6ba3l$a2lqt$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> On 4/22/2004 10:56 PM, tcomeau wrote:
> > jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> >>The following is from
> >>http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
> >>---
> >>What doesn't cause diabetes
> >>
> >>It's important to also be aware of the different myths
> >>that over the years have arisen about the causes of
> >>diabetes.
> >>
> >>Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
> >>diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
> >>associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to
> > point to to support this contention.
>
> See reference above
>
> >
> > There are studies that show that elevated blood glucose
> > kills b cells in a dose dependent manner and most fats
> > protect the b cells. Pretty straightforward cause and
> > effect.
>
> Please provide the appropriate citations.

Maedler K, Sergeev P, Ris F, Oberholzer J, Joller-Jemelka HI,
Spinas GA et al. Glucose-induced beta cell production of
IL-1beta contributes to glucotoxicity in human pancreatic
islets. Journal of Clinical Investigation 2002 110 851–860.

Maedler K, Fontana A, Ris F, Sergeev P, Toso C, Oberholzer J
et al. FLIP switches Fas-mediated glucose signaling in human
pancreatic beta cells from apoptosis to cell replication. PNAS
2002 99 8236–8241.

Maedler K, Spinas GA, Lehmann R, Sergeev P, Weber M, Fontana A
et al. Glucose induces beta-cell apoptosis via upregulation of
the Fas receptor in human islets. Diabetes 2001 50 1683–1690.

Federici M, Hribal M, Perego L, Ranalli M, Caradonna Z, Perego
C et al. High glucose causes apoptosis in cultured human
pancreatic islets of Langerhans: a potential role for
regulation of specific Bcl family genes toward an apoptotic
cell death program. Diabetes 2001 50 1290–1301.

TC

[Jmk]

On 4/24/2004 11:38 AM, tcomeau wrote:
> jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<c6ba3l$a2lqt$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>>On 4/22/2004 10:56 PM, tcomeau wrote:
>>
>>>jmk <jmk446NOT@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:<c6943h$9a77i$1@ID-220452.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The following is from
>>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/diabetes/about_causes.shtml
>>>>---
>>>>What doesn't cause diabetes
>>>>
>>>>It's important to also be aware of the different myths
>>>>that over the years have arisen about the causes of
>>>>diabetes.
>>>>
>>>>Eating sweets or the wrong kind of food does not cause
>>>>diabetes. However, it may cause obesity and this is
>>>>associated with people developing Type 2 diabetes.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Where do you get this from? Do you have any studies to
>>>point to to support this contention.
>>
>>See reference above
>>
>
>
> Then the question is where do they get their info from?

I think that you need to ask them.

>
>
>>>There are studies that show that elevated blood glucose
>>>kills b cells in a dose dependent manner and most fats
>>>protect the b cells. Pretty straightforward cause and
>>>effect.
>>
>>Please provide the appropriate citations.
>
>
> I will shortly.

Still waiting...

--
jmk in NC