Atkins vs SBD

[wow]

I wanted to get some opinions. I am on my second week on atkins and things are going fine but I am interested in adding back in whole grains and wheat after induction so I was thinking of switching to the sbd...My question after an Atkins induction is it possible to go directly into phase 2 of the sbd?

Thanks

[Indigo_]

Since induction and Phase 1 are very similar, if not the same (except for the fats and the V-8 juice), I would say that you could go to phase 2. You should read the SBD book so you understand the transition. It is very gradual. Also, SBD is much lower fat than Atkins. So no cream cheese or heavy cream on SBD, but it is a far better thing to have a piece of toast or fruit with the morning eggs, IMO.

You might be able to get some hints on the South Beach Diet website, but you won't get far for free, sorry. They want your money before they'll impart any real information. But you can get some direction there.

[wow]

Thanks indigo. I am planning on buying the book before the end of this week. I will be out of induction then and I am looking for direction

[Monika4]

I did 3 weeks induction - 1 week Atkins, 2 weeks South Beach. But make sure you go shopping before you switch - I had too many ATkins foods in the house that were too fat initially.

Do go to the South Beach site, put in your weight and email and let them tell you that you have to loose it, and then don't register. Your email will make you on their mailing list, so you get daily recipes for free, but also changes they made to the diet. I found many useful. But borrow the book! If you are a good cook, I hesitate to say buy it. I have done exactly 1 recipe from the book (veggie quiche), and otherwize most of the recipes are wasted. The chapters are very readable though. I wish someone would print an essentials version! Don't buy good fat good carb - a cheap little thing - without reading the chapters.

[wow]

Hey Monika or whoever else may know this answer


Thanks for responding to my thread about switching from Atkins to southbeach. After making the switch do you think it is essential to do a week of phase one. Also on your initial shopping spree what did you buy? Unfortunately I bought the book..but I am enjoying the read and I like having something concrete in my hands

[mishimc]

The more I read about the SBD, the more I think it may suit my WOE. I would like to know if fruit is more allowable on this one than Atkins. I really do miss my fruit and also I like the idea of less saturated fat intake on the SBD.
If I decide on the SBD, what exactly is the name of the book I should buy?
Some days, I feel very fat laden and surely this cannot be healthy??
TIA, Jean

[wow]

The book is called the South Beach Diet. I recentlky bought it. You can have more fruit on the SBD in phase II. In phase II of ATkins you are only allowed a 5 grams increase of carbs per week and those carbs should come form veggies. On the sbd you introduce new carbs slowly but if yoy want fruit to be your new introduction then so be it. That is why I have decided to switch to the SBD fpor phase II.

[smitty]

Hi,
I'm new to SBD and this board. I'm so glad you posted this question because I have similar ones. I am in OWL on Atkins (started Atkins in July) and thinking of switching to SB. I posted questions about making the switch on another SB board and haven't gotten a response yet. I'll let you know what I hear from them about making the switch. Anyway, the answers to your questions from the people on this board have been very helpful. Thanks everyone and hello from Connecticut!

[mishimc]

I asked as I have neither the Atkins nor the SBD book and as they are expensive to buy here, I thought I would find out more about the differences in food before buying one or the other. I will follow this thread with interest and hope to read others' views. In the meantime, I will stay with the low carb. Jean

[Kimmerz321]

Mishimc, if you want a good overview to SBD, check here:

http://www.prevention.com/cda/feature2002/0,4780,5023,00.html

You don't get all the background info, but you should be able to get the general idea.

[wow]

Both diets are very similar. I have both books. With Atkins you stick to fatter meats...You can fry things...have chicken wings...SBD you use leaner meats and you can add back in good carbs faster. Both diets say stay away from white things...flour, potatoes, rice, SBD is just more lenient about what you can add and why. I am looking forwrd to the switch. I WANT CEREAL!...lol

[Monika4]

I also read both books and tried both - Atkins twice each time only briefly. Some basic ideas are similar but some major concepts are not. It seems that to be in ketosis is a big condition for Atkins diet to work, whereas you aren;t supposed to be in ketosis. Wow is right that SBD is more lenient in carbs - but less is fat! You add more fruit and whole grain carbs earlier than in Atkins. I feel in phase 1 and maintenance they are similar, in between I feel Atkins is still low carb, high fat, high protein, and SBD is more low carb, low fat, high fiber, medium protein. But I also have to warn you and Wow - my experience with adding the allowed carbs is that if you are not very very careful, it doens't work - essentially I can only keep loosing by keeping close to phase 1 levels - or close to Atkins rather than SBD levels of carbs. Wow - how is it going for you?

[mishimc]

Most interesting to read the replies on here and I thank you all for your input. As I said before, I was enjoying all the saturated fats I was eating but felt saturated myself at times and am sure that would not do my arteries much good.
Anyway I have now won an auction on ebay for the SBD book and also the good fats, whatever guide with it.
Now I have to wait about two weeks for it to come from the US which is a bit sad - I want to read it NOW and get started on the right foods.
For now, I will stick to a plan similar to the one that is written up on the link that was mentioned above. Thank you to Kimmerz for posting it up.
I am definitely going to stick to low fat dairy products and see what happens.
Jean

[wow]

Monika, so far so good. As you know I am doing Atkind induction. I only have Sunday and Monday left. I am disappointed that the scale did not move this morning. I have been told that the weight I have loss so far is water weight which is even worst because when I add back in carbs...oh bot what will happen.


Mishmic, If you want to get started there is a thread in this forum called phase I and phase II. The thread list actually whats in the book for you to eat. The thread is under the south besch forum...where we are now. I think I might buy the good carb bad carb book. I keep hearing mix feelings about it but I would love to be equipped with all the information. i will start SBD Tuesday. i wish I had bought those sticks so I know if i am in ketosis.

[Quest]

For those of you who have tried both diets, is your weight loss the same on both? If you think SBD is healthier, would you stick to it even if you lost weight more slowly than on Atkins?

[black57]

Hmmm, I dunno, I really can't say much about SBD but I have to speak up and say that Atkins is a healthy diet. I have never made a big deal about ketosis and I do not think that the book stresses it as often as many say that it does. I have read up on ketosis and I know that it is a normal bodily function just like menstruation. In all reality, if you are going to exercise and/or diet, you will probably experience ketosis regardless of which diet you are on. I eat low carb cereal on this woe and it is quite good. I also eat pasta and candy. I eat a wide variety of vegetables and a small variety of allowable fruit, good healthy fats and oils.

With an HDL=77 LDL=59 triglycerides=59 glucose=98, this tells me that this is a healthy diet. My potassium, calcium etc are great

[mishimc]

Hi all, Black, I see you are doing so very well on the Atkins plan and as I am on Lipitor for high cholesterol levels, this WOE reassures me that it will be worthwhile to go on to a low carb plan. I just wish I had access to a low carb cereal - that would make me so excited!!
Thank you Wow for pointing me to the threads on the foods for the SBD plan I will go look so I can at least be on the right track. My scales did drop a little today so already that gives me a boost.
Jean

[Isiar]

For those of you who have tried both diets, is your weight loss the same on both? If you think SBD is healthier, would you stick to it even if you lost weight more slowly than on Atkins?

I had no choice Diana, my lipid profile skyrocketed with Atkins (got over 400!) so I had to switch plans and began to take Lipitor. I'm absolutely sure that everyone is different, I have read a lot of posts reporting great achievements in lipid profiles with Atkins. would like to be one of those!, but certainly it was not my case...

As for the weight loss rate, I'm not sure...I've lost only 1 pd since I switched one month ago (I had lost 28 # since I started Atkins last june), but my weight loss had slowed down with Atkins as well (prior to SBD).

[Kimmerz321]

For those of you who have tried both diets, is your weight loss the same on both? If you think SBD is healthier, would you stick to it even if you lost weight more slowly than on Atkins?

I've done both. I dont necessarily feel that one is healthier than the other - I don't think Atkins is unhealthy. I just feel better on South Beach. One of the things SBD has taught me is that I dont need to eat a lot of processed foods to eat well. I eat lots of lean poultry, fruits and vegetables, and whole grains. When I was on Atkins, I always felt kind of greasy - maybe as a result of all of the fatty stuff I was eating. This WOE feels much more natural for me. I like the variety better than I liked what I could eat on Atkins.

My weight loss has been quite a bit slower on SBD than on Atkins - I'm at about a pound per week. I'm sure that's more due to not watching my portion sizes more than anything, and that if I would get that under control my numbers would drop faster. But I'm fine w/ the rate I'm at and wouldn't go back to Atkins even though my weight loss is slower. I feel good, I'm eating well and not denying myself the things I like. This WOE works for me and I can live with it as a lifestyle. If Atkins works for you, that's fabulous too. I'm glad we're all doing something to try and make ourselves lose weight and be healthier.

[NCLC]

Hey folks...I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I am really unclear on the differences between Atkins and SBD. I have been on Atkins for quite some time now and my wife has wanted to join me LCing, specifically on SBD. So I decided to look into it so that I could see if it is something I could switch over to in order to making cooking easier in the house.

Well, first of all...Where is the main difference? They seem almost exactly the same, except that the SBD book is filled with fluff; it comes across as a lazy Atkins. The only major differences I can see is that it does not advocate ketosis (SBD doesn't actually say anything either way), and the fat issue...But as there is currently little evidence to suggest saturated fats are as nasty LCing as people suggest I would be throwing that issue out the window. The SBD book and I believe this board's FAQ or sticky note both mention that the sat. fat research issue. It seems a bit more liberal (like maintenance), but then you would never really know since it doesn't advocate recordkeeping/counting.

What am I missing?

[LadyBelle]

NCLC - There is very little difference really. South Beach phase 1 is more like Atkins OWL. It adds in low glycemic carbs and cuts the fat a little sooner. SB does avocate the use of low fat dairy, while Atkins states to use the full fat stuff. Both encourage cutting carbs to almost nothing for a detox period, then slowly adding in carbs with a low glycemix index and lots of nutritional value. Both also state to avoid white sugar, white flour, white rice, and other overly processed foods.

[SeeMyself]

I have been on Atkins for quite some time now

Your weight says the same, so, how have YOU done?


except that the SBD book is filled with fluff; it comes across as a lazy Atkins. The only major differences I can see is that it does not advocate ketosis (SBD doesn't actually say anything either way), and the fat issue...It seems a bit more liberal (like maintenance),

You DON'T have to go in to ketosis to loose weight......

but then you would never really know since it doesn't advocate recordkeeping/counting.

What am I missing?

THIS is a way of life (wol) you really SHOULDN'T have to keep records of what goes in your mouth :rolleyes: a little common sense is all it takes.

[NCLC]

Well it sounds like I did manage to offend someone. I was honestly just curious of the differences and Lady Belle was kind enough to answer some of my suspicions. From some of your previous posts you seem to be a strong supporter of SBD. If SBD works for you then kudos, but I am still allowed to ask questions and judge its efficacy (for me) for myself. One of the reasons I love this forum so much is that it (generally) has an open dialog and plenty of people questioning various aspects of a LC lifestyle, including the science behind it. This sort of openness is helpful in not only educating by pointing out strengths and weaknesses, but also in showing its legitimacy to the uninformed public.

As for your comments,
Your weight says the same, so, how have YOU done?

And the relevance of this is...? Would my progress somehow have some bearing or weight on my opinion? Whatever I entered on the above bar was my second goal after losing 75 lb. I entered it when I joined this forum not realizing it would be shown to everyone. I have no real plans to update the information at this time and may just remove it. It hasn't really been an issue until now.



You DON'T have to go in to ketosis to loose weight......

I never said ketosis was a necessary condition for weight loss and saying so would be silly as there is absolutely no scientific basis for such a statement. I was merely stating an observed difference. The other major difference (that I noted) was the issue with the saturated fats, as well as the fluff:fact ratio in both books.


THIS is a way of life (wol) you really SHOULDN'T have to keep records of what goes in your mouth :rolleyes: a little common sense is all it takes.
I happen to be of the "know thyself" school of thought. In my own experience it has been very helpful to be able to monitor my progress and watch how my body responds to various changes in dietary variables. Because of this I know exact carb levels I can tolerate as well as what leeway I have under various conditions. Do I keep a running journal everyday? No. I used to and it was extremely helpful and would recommend it to anyone starting out LCing. Now that I have a feel for how I handle LCing, I can 'eyeball' it. Perhaps I was just low on "common sense", but the LC WOL was drastically different from my previous lifestyle and journalling helped me get a better feel for what LCing really meant. If you or anyone else can start LCing and some how intuit all that needs to be known about their nutritional intake and metabolic responses then kudos, but I am unable to perform such mental feats.

Again, if SBD works for you then great. I was just trying to understand it better myself. I stand by my observations.

[Grimalkin]

Hey NCLC,

I'm going to go out on a limb here and recommend to you Protein Power or Protein Power for Life Plan. That program is actually very similar to Atkins and SBD too. I'm not advocating switching plans or anything, but I found the Eades' books to be the most informative regarding nutrition and metabolism - less "fluff" and more medical facts. I found these books to be invaluable in helping me understand my own body's response to different dietary variables, perhaps they will help you answer some of your own questions and help you choose a plan of action that is ideal for you.

[Monika4]

NCLC, I would not say SBD is lazy Atkins - I think in a way it is stricter. The way you said it was a bit downputting SBD - not just wanting to know but nevermind, to your question.

I think the fat issue and good carb issue is quite a big difference in practical terms. I had stocked Atkins - ok food before switching, and the fat issue isn't a side issue - I couldn't use much of my stock of food. Most Atkins ice creme and other Atkins food on the grocery shelves is not allowed on SBD.

I certainly was in ketosis at times on SBD phase 1, that is not the major difference - induction and phase 1 are very similar except that SBD is more difficult - it is basically a low fat Atkins induction. I also think the maintenance and final phases are very similar. The big difference is in phase 2/OWL.

Practically, if I read Atkins support threads here, many say if you stall, you should increase fat to increase weight loss. Many comments on people with problems state: you don't have enough fat. An SBD menu is likely criticized on that point. So, in my opinion the ratio of protein to carb to fat is quite different in SBD, and that makes a huge difference in how you cook and shop.

Nevertheless, obviously the physiology that is tapped in is the same, and when I list SBD with Atkins modifications (I stall when I use as many allowed carbs and SBD phase 2 suggests, thus my carb count is usually closer to Atkins), and some others list Atkins with SBD modifications - doing low animal fat Atkins - that is really the same. But it is in a way a more restricted, not a lazy Atkins.

[pstar]

NCLC,

After thinking about it...I think I'll chime in here and say that when you don't want to offend someone, don't use words that offend...and while I'm sure that, as you stated in your opening sentence, you didn't want to offend anyone...I found the tone of your post to be negitive....

I'm here to tell you the SBD is no 'lazy man's' anything. I've lost 36lbs in 109 days on the beach...'lazy' has not entered into the mix.

As far as measuring the amount of carbs, fat, and calories I eat...I started out measuring everything because I wanted to know...I measure less and less the longer I go. For me to make this a WOL and not return to old habits, it needs to be integrated into my daily routines to the point that I never think about it...I'm almost to that point...obviously measuring everything will make me think about it constantly...

There are many folks out there who just want to lose weight and learn how to eat...they don't want to measure everything that they eat...and don't care about all of the medical facts associated with how they eat...they want to be like their slimmer family and friends who don't think about and measure every bite they consume...SBD is one tool of many that can be useful.

As far as eating lower amounts of fat, in particular saturated fat, I feel better, my digestive system works better, and I lose wight quicker...everyone is different...my reasons for not wanting to eat a high fat diet have nothing to do with the saturated fat research issue...if you read posts from people who have switched from Atkins to SBD, many mention that they feel better eating lower amounts of fat...personal preference...

SBD is really not so much about how many carbs I eat...it is about which carbs I eat...my WOE currently consists of lean protien, low amounts of saturated fats, moderate amounts of good fats, and foods that are for the most part in the mid range of the glysemic index and lower...

SBD may very well be 'Atkins Light'...but if it works let's embrace it as another tool in the fight...and it does work if you believe other forums that are dedicated to SBD...many people are having success...different plans for different folks...if it was a cookie cutter world none of us would be over weight.

[adkpam]

I've read both books, and it seems to me that you wind up in the same place when you hit maintenance. Both require lack of processed, "white" carbs, both urge choosing carbs carefully, and both allow whole grains and fruit.

It is in the middle phases that the differences become more pronounced, with Atkins going very low in carbs through more of the phases, (both of them are virtually identical in the Induction phase as well.)

Apparently the lower fat/high carb thing works for some people, especially those sensitive to saturated fat. (There are threads on the Protein power forum that address the aradichroniic acid (sorry spelling might not be right) issue and how some people do need to watch the saturated fats...though not ALL people.)

Personally, I feel I lost faster on Atkins than I would have with a SB plan. My favorite fruits are berries & melon, after eating low fat for 10 years I really missed good salad dressing and steaks & bacon, while that is NOT a majority of what I eat, I enjoy them immensely.

South Beach has a deserved rep for being less "radical" which can help people who are adjusting to a low carb WOE, but could be troublesome for people who have carb cravings.

For people with blood sugar issues, though, I think Atkins would be a much better way to start, simply because it has such emphasis on carb control which is crucial for good blood sugar levels.

[Quest]

As Adkpam says in her logical comment above, there are no doubt some people who will feel/lose better on Atkins, and some on South Beach (or another diet). I have not tried South Beach, but its emphasis on low fat meats and other fat restrictions makes it sound very much like the old Weight Watchers to me--in other words, like a classic portion/calorie control diet. That still sounds like deprivation to me. I like being able to choose hamburger, steak, lamb, or bacon sometimes without feeling like an outlaw :).

[skibunnie]

I find that on atkins, i lack alot of energy. I need to be able to workout everyday, so increasing my carbs through fruit, veggies and nuts makes sense to me.

[sandi24]

I did atkins induction a couple of months ago, my bp was high and I felt awful but after doing Atkins I felt great and my bp dropped dramatically, my doctor couldnt believe the difference.I lost 9 lbs in two weeeks but didnt feel I could stick to all the fatty meats etc.. I was used to lean meats and pasta .. now I know that to be a no-no. My doctor said that a high fat diet burns fat and it was okay to continue if I wanted to but I must come off it once I achieve my goal weight. I looked at SDB and low glycemic foods, then went onto eating a healthy low glycemic diet with no whites.. I did this for about 3 weeks, felt great and I didnt regain the 9lbs I lost but I also didnt lose an ounce :( (but I was enjoying my stoneground bread, more than I probably should have been eating lol) So here I am back on Atkins.. I lost 5 lbs in my first week and 2 so far this week..5 more days to go then I too am considering SDB because as my doctor said you need a healthy ongoing diet you can live with and I know the SDB is more suitable to my lifestyle.This time I will count my carbs! Everyone is different and we all react differently to foods and have our own likes and dislikes.

The good thing is the low carbing has given me amazing health
benefits and I feel so much better so I know I will be eating these healthy low glycemic foods from now on.. its not just a fad diet!

[JimR-OCDS]

Well, I've been reading this thread as an outside observer, not being on either Atkins or SB per se. I did Atkins years ago with great success, but eventually fell off, due to boredom. My boss is currently on SB and having great success. I watched him suffer through phase I and thought to myself, this is Atkins, except without the fat, which is why he's hungry. Also, my guess is that with the level of carbs he was taking in, and looking at what you're allowed on phase I on SB, many will end up in Ketosis and not even know it.

What I see in this thread, as I've seen in all diet forums, is that diet is like religion. People defend the one they're on to the hilt. My guess is that they do this because at the moment, it is working for them, and they don't want to hear anything that will destroy their belief in the plan they're on.

For me, I've merely learned to watch my carbs. I don't watch saturated fats, because I really don't see them as a problem. If I stay between 25-45g's of carbs per day, I will lose weight, and will feel good. If I go to less than 25g's of carbs per day, I feel lousy!

The bottom line here, is that you should be looking at what works for you, and especially how you feel.

[daiseymae]

For me, the SBD is much easier to live on than many other lo-carb plans. I am diabetic and have had out of control blood sugar levels for many years. When I started the SBD, my blood sugar levels went way down, and in fact I had many hypoglycemic episodes and my endocrinologist (diabetes Dr.) told me to go on to phase 2 without completing phase 1. We have reduced my fast acting insulin by one third and we are in the process of finding the correct dosage for the long acting insulin. My triglycerides are in a normal range and so is my cholesterol. A few months ago both were off the chart.
I have lost 15 pounds since valentines day this year.
Good luck
Daiseymae

[Nancy LC]

Other than grains and differences in their opinions on saturated fats, I think the diets are pretty similar.

You might find that you gain some water weight on SBD because you are eating a little more carbs, but you will on Atkins too if you climb the carb ladder. Don't let it panic you.

[Monika4]

......Also, my guess is that with the level of carbs he was taking in, and looking at what you're allowed on phase I on SB, many will end up in Ketosis and not even know it.

What I see in this thread, as I've seen in all diet forums, is that diet is like religion. People defend the one they're on to the hilt. My guess is that they do this because at the moment, it is working for them, and they don't want to hear anything that will destroy their belief in the plan they're on.

You are right on number one - based on an unprecedented strong response I had to alcohol and bad breath complaints I was definitely in ketosis early on. SO what?

I disagree with you on that second one. I like South Beach better, but at work South Beachers and Atkins people are telling our cafeteria the same things - please put out eggs and ham and chicken breast to the salad bar - and we agree much more than disagree on virtually all practical issues. We may take up the fight against the obligatory seminar cookies at 4 pm, for example, together.

I also didn't see that type of antagonistic view in this thread or in most of them. I think most of us, especially those who have tried both, realize it is a matter of choice. If you don't have troubles with blood cholesterol etc., you definitely can take saturated fats- I don't like them, and whether really cutting them down if you do have bad blood values helps is an open question. But there are many here who were basically told by their physician to stop eating saturated fats because of their blood values, but they wanted to stay low carb - so there comes South Beach. There are others who came here because of fruit and grain and wine being missed too much. It is a trickier one, it is harder to find things that are both low fat AND no sugar (most ice creme is one or the other), and some find Atkins easier to loose on.

But I don't think many here are as adamant about it as you seem to get the impression. Overall in this forum in general there is an amount of curiosity about other plans and tolerance, not religiosity or fighting.

[milmndude]

I am a new convert to South Beach. I have followed Atkins for 4 years off and on and the last year have been unable to shed 1 lb. I started SB 1 and a half weeks ago and so far have lost 4lbs. I feel better mentally lowering my fat intake and also have as many veggies as I like. I haven't found it difficult at all. If anything I'm finding it hard to eat as much as they say I should. I do find that SB is more balanced and alot less restrictive. I didn't like the fact that Atkins was always advocating specialty products where as SB sticks to whole natural foods easily found in any kitchen. ;)

[elijaeger]

I often wondered if I was in Ketosis during my PHase 1. I imagine only 50-60 carbs per day will eventually have you making ketones. Since the Dr. didn't talk about it I'll assume it isn't important unless you believe in the Atkins metabolic advantage. Which I don't. Given the amount of weight loss most SBers experience in phase 1, I'd guess there is quite a bit of glycogen depletion/water loss which will lead to ketone production.

[Talli]

I too am thinking of switching to South Beach...only because when I eat beef I feel heavy, lethargic, and it doesn't agree with my digestive system all that well.

[elijaeger]

You can do Atkins and South
Beach without eating beef at all. Chicken, fish, tofu, cheese of all kinds, all are great lean protein sources. A lot of people that can't stomach the induction phase of Atkins do better on South Beach. And are more regular for what that's worth.

[WBunny]

Yes, I would do one or two weeks of South Beach when coming off Atkins induction. But it's important to read the book to fully understand how your body processes food. Very informative.

[PilotGal]

My cholesterol sky rocketed too, after being faithful to Atkins for 6 mo. They finally begged me to go on Lipitor for my cholesterol.
My g/f is doing the SBD, she couldn't stand all the fat on Atkins. She's doing well, but then she's virgo, and is diciplined with anything she does.
I've modified my Atkins just like another reader, to Atkins Beach Diet. I try to limit my butter/fat/fatty meats, and stick with leaner cuts of meat, and very rarely use any fat other than olive oil and that olive oil spread. My cholesterol has dropped back down into the 100's, my weight is fluctuating, but I know i'm not going to have any artery problems with fatty intakes of protein. Its hard living in this day and age and having to fight the battle of the bulge.

[WBunny]

Quest ~
I've tried both diets & yes, SB is much healthier. You also get a variety of food such as low glycemic veggies & fruits. I lost more faster on Atkins but on SB I feel so much better -- more energy, better concentration. Another thing that happened w/ Atkins was that after a couple of months, my hair started getting greasy by mid afternoon, my antiperspirant stopped working, I was seeping oil from my pores & I generally felt greasy.
Hope this helps!