Anti Depressant and Atkins??

[Trish353]

I know being on a Anti Depressant medication alone makes you gain weight... but can I lose weight on Atkins at all? Or should I just give up now?

[Karen]

There are many other benefits to low-carbing besides weight loss. Do you feel more energetic? Have any aches or pains left? Is your skin clearer? Brain fog gone?

Low carbing is a lifestyle changfe that gives you the tools to create a healthier life. :D

Besides that, refined carbs are toxic!

People who have a small amount of weight to lose slowly. Percentage wise, they are losing the same amount as someone who wants to lose 100 pounds. Annoying but true!

Karen

[Natrushka]

I bet if you tried LCing for a few weeks you'd notice a change for the better. Food cravings will disappear. Your mood might improve (I'd say 'will' but with the anti-depressants factored in ???) I know I have more energy now than I've had in years, I feel better when I wake up, I'm no longer lethargic, I sleep like the dead (right through the night, which has NEVER happened before). And I'm no longer always hungry.

You might even lose a few lbs!!

Good luck :)

Nat

[herodl]

Hi Trish:

I take an antidepressant and am doing well on the Atkins - 50 lbs so far. Everyone is different of course.

Lori

[NancyC]

Actually, the new anti-depressants do not have the weight gain side effect as with MAO inhibitors and Elavil. One of Effexor's common side effects is anoerxia (not that you'd want it).

I'm currently on deproprovera-birth control-which does have weight gain as a side-effect (I'm not going in for my next 3 month shot). However, I'm continuing to LC and SLOWly losing weight... any loss is a success.

If you're new to anti-depressants, give your body time to adjust (typically 6-8 weeks).

Don't give up on LCing... you don't have much to lose so your loss may be slow. And don't stop taking your medication... it's saving your life.

[Lessara]

I'm on Prozac for my Anxiety and for the first week I didn't lose weight then the next week I lost 6 pounds. I think your body has to get used to it and its also Important to take your meds at the same time each day. I one time took my meds at night instead of morning (I forgot to take them) and it made me either hold water or not lose. (Who can tell the difference?) Well that's my two cents worth :p

[Karen]

Lessara, you may want to read Potatoes not Prozac. While not exactly LC, it's a good read, jam-packed with information that's good to have in your low-carb arsenal.

Karen

[Shonnee]

:thup: Don't worry about doing Low Carbing and being on Anti-depresents. I have been Low Carbing only 3 weeks and I take my Anti-Depresents at the same time everyday and I am now down 19 pounds. I swear that the low carbing has helped a whole lot with my moods and you will start to feel it right away. I didn't have problems with having pains and fatigue or some things other people had but you will start to feel great and I think that the Low Carbing with my anti-depres pills make me feel great. I would try LCing and see how you feel.
Shondel

[Atriana]

You didn't say which antidepressant you are taking, but several of them supposedly don't effect weight at all. Wellbutrin is one, Effexor is another. Why don't you talk to your doctor about switching?

[momy2girls]

Hiya,

I am also on Prozac. :daze: I really think it depends on your body and your desire to lose weight. I know that all those cabs and chocolates sure look super yummy when I first started taking my meds. I was a a true blue anti carbos eater. So, I do think the meds, since they do help improve your mood. May, also help your appetite. I really notice though my water stayed on me to excess the first two days restarting induction. Now bamm!!!!!! 4 lbs off .....so I know you can do it too.!

Best of Luck,

Kelly Ann

[Cali]

Does anyone know whether Lovan (a SRI) at 20 mg is one of the anti deps that don't affect weight loss?
I took it before I was LCing but haven't taken it for over a year now, tho' I still have a tempting prescription for it, but don't want anything to hinder my weightloss.

[doreen T]

hi Cali,

Lovan is a brand name of fluoxetine, which is Prozac. It's available under that name only in Australia

Fluoxetine does have weight gain as a side effect; this is due to fluid retention, and to increased appetite.

8 yrs ago, I was prescribed prozac for my chronic fatigue. I was assured that I'd have more energy. No kidding!! I was bouncing off the walls, and insomniac :eek: .. I gained 20 lbs in 3 months. The dr told me I must be eating more because I was feeling better :bash: No mention of side effect from the drug.

You might want to look into an alternative, as the others have mentioned

Doreen

[Cali]

Yes I knew Prozac was a serotonin reuptake inhibitor just like Lovan and all the other brand names, but if it causes fluid retention then can't that be countered in some way so as to maintain the good mood and the weight loss?
As for appetite , well an increased one isn't an issue on Atkins, is it?
I'm not making excuses, rather, because I eat when I am upset and I get upset a lot, then maybe this anti depressant would be less detrimental than not taking it. (?)
I probably shouldn't have been prescribed it in the first place.
I suspect my rather drug happy doctor thought it would make a difficult domestic situation more bearable for me, rather than being proactive about change.
Maybe I should tear up that prescription.

[doreen T]

hi Cali,

Sorry for the confusion .. I should've made it clear that Lovan isn't "just like" prozac .. it IS prozac. Lovan, Prozac, and Sarafem are brand names for the specific drug fluoxetine. Lovan just happens to be the brand name of it in Australia.

Fluoxetine was the first of the class of SRI's, there have been many others developed since then, with fewer side effects and/or that treat more specific depressive problems. Fluoxetine is still the most commonly prescribed, and it is still a very helpful and useful drug. You just have to weigh the benefit of improved mood and energy vs. any side effect.

Your pharmacist would be a good, non-judgemental person to ask about other options with fewer side effects, which you can then take to your dr. for discussion and a prescription change. Taking an antidepressant won't make the problems go away, but if it can improve your mood and help you to feel better, then you'll feel more able to deal with the real issues ... and make those pro-active changes.

Doreen

[slim2none]

:wave:

Hello Trish,

I am on anti-depressants and had the same concerns as you. I am now 12 pounds lighter than before, (just since the end of January), and feel so much better.

I have much more energy and think LC'ing along with this web-site is the way to go.

YOU can do this. :thup:

[Gemma]

Hi Trish

I have been on an SSRI antidepressant for the past two or so years (I can't remember exactly when I started on them). I take Paroxetine which very closely related to Sertraline. The brand names are Aropax (Paroxetine) or Zoloft (Sertraline) here in Australia.

I take Aropax and I can't say what a difference it has made to my general health and wellbeing. After many years of what I call "anxiety eating", by which I mean eating to relieve the nervous "gnawing" sense of anxiety in the pit of my stomach, I am now free of this horrible feeling!

I did not gain any appreciable weight on Aropax, and have been now on LC WOE for 19 weeks and have lost 24 lbs.

If you need to treat your depression/anxiety it is important to do so. You will probably find that when feeling better psychologically, you will also feel better physically and be better able to deal with the demands of daily life.

This WOE is not a miracle cure for being overweight, but it is by far the simplest, easiest and best way of losing weight gradually that I have ever tried (in more than 30 years of weighing more than I should). I believe it is also one of the healthiest ways of addressing the problem of weighing more than is comfortable

Go for it Trish!!!

Regards and good luck

Gemma

[jalmada]

It does work indeed...

I've been on Atkins for 6 months now and have dropped slowly to 200 pounds... Just weeks away from finally fitting into size 34 pants, but I just started Wellbutrin (probably spelled it wrong) about 1 month ago and it has really worked wonders for me... Depression runs strong on my mother's side of the family and I have battled it for my whole life... This new medication is working great and I'm still losing weight on Atkins in OWL mode ;>)

Jon out here in semi-warming up California :roll:

[Gemma]

Hi Jon

My family also has a strong thread of anxiety and depressive disorders. I can't believe the difference actually treating the problem has made to my life.

I put off seeking "chemical" treatment for years though I tried counselling etc, but I realise now I was only half living! I feel fortunate to have found a Dr who picked up on it quickly - my previous Dr retired. Now I just feel at peace with life in general - the absolute opposite to the constant sense of anxiety and regular dips into depression - never severe enough to stop functioning, but always enough to rob me of any feeling of enjoyment - and enough to send me to the fridge for relief from the "gnawing" anxiety.

Now with this new WOE I am just on top of the world!

Good luck :dazzle:

Gemma

[StarOrchid]

I wouldn't recommend prozac or effexor, for people who have weight problems. I gained 40 lbs on prozac in a year and 20 more lbs when I changed to effexor. I'm still on effexor right now but i'm hoping to switch to wellbutrin which is supposedly much better at helping one lose weight while also treating depression. If you're a smoker, wellbutrin is a great antidepressant for you because it is the same as zyban, the smoking-cessation drug...

[jalmada]

I've been on Wellbutrin for about 1 1/2 months now... I'm really pleased with the results - much improved outlook and I'm very "evened" out - It is much better than the Zoloft and Xanax I've been on at different times...

My weight is dropping fast too... I'm noticing the pants just get easier and easier to fit in...

[Lessara]

I was curious, how many grams were you on? I'm on 20g and I haven't gained any weight.

[jalmada]

150mg - once a day - timed release I think... Works great :daze:

[Frances]

Has anyone heard of Aropax? it's maine ingredient is Paroxetine. It's an anti-depressant.

I've been trying to stop taking it, but the phyical withdrawl is terrible, I keep getting that electric shock feeling and my GP doesn't even know what to do.........

I'd really appreciate some help.


Frances

[natty-fay]

I take Aropax as well, the withdrawals are really bad for me too. I haven't talked to my doctor about going off them but, know from forgetting to take them for a couple of days. I always thought that you could wean yourself off them, but hearing what you have said worries me. I have been considering going off them as I don't want to inhibit my weight loss. I feel pretty confused about the issue.

I assume you are an Aussie also as I think aropax is an australian brandname.

Anyway good luck and keep me posted.

[jalmada]

Why not look up the drug on a medical or pharamacutical website and see if these withdrawel symptoms are covered there - if there is one thing I have learned, if it exists, it has been covered somewhere on the web...

A quick yahoo search yielded this:

http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/_disc560/00000289.htm

"I too went through the same thing. I did not take my daily dose for 5 days and was getting the horrible dizzy electric shock feelings in my head. This occurred because the drug was stopped abruptly. When coming off aropax, you need to slowly decrease the doses over a period of 2-3 weeks. This is supposed to decrease or prevent these symptoms from occurring. I am yet to try again"

Also: http://paxil.bizland.com/archives_34.htm

Hope that helps...

Jon

[shellyfell]

Hey guys, I get those electric shock waves that go through my head from elavil.......I strongly suspect that the elavil is messing up my wieghtloss.............Shelly..................

[Frances]

Sounds like it's a come problem..........I'm off to another doctor this afternoon for another try. I've been cutting back on the tables slowly.....I get down to half a tablet a day the shocks start.

Since I've started taking these things, when my son died, 9 months ago, I've gained about 10 kilos..........I don't know if it's the tablets or depression, but I know putting on this amount of weight isn't helping the despression either.

I'll get back to you tomorrow hopefully with some good news.

[Frances]

This is what happened....

He changed me from Aropax to Luvox because the Aropax are a higher dosage tablet 20mg, Luvox is 100mg tablets so I can cut down more gradually on the Luvox..............makes sense.

Next he said if the side effects continue while reducing the dosage, it can also mean that I'm not ready to come off them.

Because the medication if correcting an imbalance in the brain that is causing the anxiety or depression, if we stop taking the medication to soon - less than a year. We will get those shocks no mater what.

This is scary...........and I regret ever having started them.

:(

[lmccarty96]

I was wondering if Celexa had any weight effects? I take 20mg a day. I just started it a few weeks ago but if it's going to do that, I'll either quit it or have it changed. You guys are great!!

[ADELE]

I was on Serzone, 300mg, for 2 years. No problem with weight gain. I then was changed to Remeron. Well, I instantly gained 15 lbs. last fall. I'm now down to 15mg, from 45 mg. Hoping this will help me lose faster. Good luck to all.

[Gemma]

Hi All

I know that all the literature is very clear about not ceasing Aropax suddenly and I know from experience that forgetting tablets will lead to dizziness but I haven't tried to reduce my dosage to date.

The directions for taking the medication suggest a slow reduction under the Dr's guidance and I would imagine that would be over a number of weeks or even months.

Has anyone more information?

Gemma

[Frances]

Hi Gemma,


I got down to half a tablet (10mg) and could not go lower because of the electric shocks............Aropax is a high dosage tablet and so I've just been switched to Luvox because 100mg of Luvox is equal to 20mg of Aropax and I'm going to be able to reduce the dosage more and more until it's barely in my system, but it is going to take quite a few weeks.

Maybe talk to your doctor about switching if you want to stop taking it

Frances

[animaldoc]

I'm on Celexa and I think it has prevented me from losing weight. This WOE has always worked for me before, but I fell off the wagon last summer (for various reasons) and when I started again in Jan, I haven't really lost much weight. The only thing that has changed is that I started the Celexa (20 mg SID) in October. I can't blame the weight gain on the drug (since I was eating badly), but that's the only thing I can think of that is making me not lose.

Since I just have a "situational" depression (related to my current job which ends in JUNE!) I was planning on stopping the Celexa next month.....hopefully then I'll be able to lose.

-animaldoc :wave:

[lmccarty96]

Hi Animaldoc,
I asked my doctor about Celexa and he it doesn't affect your weight either way. I'm on 20 mg too and I don't see it affecting me at all. I'm actually losing weight easier than what I have in the past. Hope this help you a little bit

[animaldoc]

Thanks lmccarty!

I looked it up on Pub Med, and there are actually a bunch of articles describing paradoxical weight gain on SSRI's (like Celexa). Your doctor is right though, Celexa is less likely than some other antidepressants to affect your weight, but we're all different. I've always been sensitive to medications of any kind, and since this is the only thing that has changed since I stopped and re-started this WOE, that's the only thing I can pin it on........ I remember that my doctor told me to let him know if I had weight gain or loss (since it can apparently do either) so I'll tell him next time I go. (Why oh why couldn't I be in the weight loss group! :rolleyes: )

Does this mean my antidepressant is making me depressed? :confused: Thank goodness I can stop soon! :D

-animaldoc :wave:

[lmccarty96]

Animaldoc,
If I were you I'd go to the doctor now instead of waiting. If they change your meds, you might be able to lose. It sounds to me like they might be causing you to be depressed. That may be your whole problem. Hope you have better luck!!

[LAMA]

Hi Trish,

The first thing I would say is that if you have been depressed and the antidepressants are working it is important to stick with them or work with your doc to change them.

I have dealt with depression for over 10 years, with periodic bouts with clinical depression, severe enough to keep me out of work for almost 6 months. Going on and off meds can increase bouts of depression so be careful please!

I have been Lcing since just before the beginning of this year, about 10 weeks. It has really helped my depression but I wouldn't go off my meds because it is part of what keeps me going. I do have hope that one day I can go off them and I didn't have that hope before I changed to this WOL.

I'm taking Wellbutrian and weight lose tends to be one of the side effects. Prozac can also have the same effect, its more of an energy increaser than something like elavil that makes you sleepy. Most of the SRI's are ok.

So my message is that you have to take care of both parts of your life, don't throw one out if it is necessary and working. If you stick with this new way of eating you will loose weigh and you'll feel so much better. My moods are better than ever!

Good luck!

P.S. Since I started Atkins I have lost 27 pounds! :roll:

[EveLee]

I began to gain a lot of weight 6 years ago when I began to take an anti-depressant for migraine headache. I also became to exhausted it interfered with my life drastically. Recently, I stopped taking it. My energy is back and my life is back.

I take Inderal, was taking anti-dep, and also ERT and have managed to lose weight slowly. 18 lbs in this last year.

Effexor does have weight gain as a side effect. My daughter, 19 yo, gained 35 lbs in one year. I am just grateful that she is accepting the weight and not discontinuing the meds. They have changed her life.

There are no answers that work for everyone. We have to figure out our own destiny. However, it is helpful to have all of the wonderful info and support to sort it all out.

[mizterikin]

I am also on an anti-depressant, Wellbutrin. I make sure I take it the same times each day and I've dropped 13 lbs in just over a month. I also added a walking program at the same time as I started Atkins. :wiggle:
As a nurse, I agree with everyone that diets affect everyone differently. For instance my husband started the diet the same time I did and he's not lost 5 pounds yet.
Good Luck and hang in there!

[Cali]

After being told on this forum that my SSRI was an early model (Lovan - fluorextine 20mg) and could inhibit weight loss, I went to my doctor and asked her.

She said that all SSRIs have the potential of markedly increasing fluid retention and that responses varied in as many ways as there are individuals.

She nevertheless offered to change mine, just to see, and gave me some Aropax paroxetine 20mg to try.

So far so good, no marked changes or effects.

I'm premenstrual and I'm using wild yam cream (natural progesterone) so can't tell if my fluid retention is caused by one of these. Time will tell.

What I'm curious about is the paroxetine vs fluorextine - I thought all SSRIs boiled down to being the latter ; anyone out there know the difference?

[shellyfell]

anybody know anything about elavil and if it slows down wieghtloss or anything at all about the effect it can have on the bodys' metabolism?:confused: :confused:....................Shelly

[LAMA]

My understanding is Elavil is one that can cause to you gain weight, not just from taking the meds but it defiantly slows you down and increases appetite. My doc wouldn't consider it for me because my weight was high so he went the Prozac/Wellbutrian route which are more energizing. I'm on Wellbutrian right now and have been for over almost 2 years.

Take care,

Laurie

[animaldoc]

I should have given more background....

I have a "situational depression" because of my residency. I tried to quit several times, but was talked out of it by people that care about me (they probably should have just let me quit!). Last fall I was VERY depressed and crying all the time so my psychiatrist (I have ADHD too) prescribed Celexa and Xanax (for occasional use). The plan for the Celexa was to stop in the Spring depending on what the "jerks from work" (my dr's words!) were doing since my residency is over at the end of June and then we're moving........

Can't stop the antidepressants now, because March is my bad month for the SAD (which I never had until I moved here), and I think it would be hard to switch meds just for a month. I AM frustrated that I'm not losing on a plan that has worked so well for me in the past, but I think I'll just have to stick it out for one more month and then start again......after all, I haven't GAINED any weight....

-animaldoc :wave:

[SiZzLE]

I will never take Zyban, a.k.a. Wellbutrin again. Yes it killed my appetite, but the sudden violent eruption of digustingly itchy hives that sent me to the emergency room at 1:30 AM on Christmas Day convinced me I didn't need to take it. Watch out for those side efects!! I was taking it not to stop smoking, but to help me sleep at night/depression. I would rather sleep badly than itch all the time lol!!

[Lessara]

I'm seeing my doctor on Friday, to change my meds.
I am currently taking Prozac and it made my panic attacks worse.
I have anxiety, with alittle OCD plus panic attacks. Is there meds that would be better for me than Prozac. Sounds like there are some meds that would be worse.

[animaldoc]

I'm no expert, but I thought I was seeing Paxil advertised on TV for anxiety?

-animaldoc :wave:

[Frances]

Hi Lessara

I was having anxiety feelings and heart palpitations and irrational thoughts a few months ago after my son died........I was first given Effexor..no change.....then Aropax.........the anxiety stopped, but the side effects when trying to stop were bad, so now I'm taking Luvox (not Luvan) to that I can gradually reduce the dose more before I stop.

Good luck

[Lessara]

I tried Paxil but it aggrivates my ADHD, fustration jumps even highter! I'll throughly discuss this with my doctor, thank you for the advice, Frances!

[Gemma]

Hi Frances

I am happy staying on Aropax for now as I don't have any side effects from taking it and after years of anxiety I love feeling so good. Thanks for the advice though, as if I do decide to come off in the future, I will be prepared to change to something else to assist with the reduction and do it over a very long period.

I have to say though, that I have felt so fantastic taking Aropax that I have no desire to go back to being anxious and depressed at all. If it is reducing the amount of weight I lose, I don't care. I would rather lose really slowly than go back to being so miserable. I always found when trying to reduce weight I would get even more anxious and depressed - I don't want to go there anymore.

Thanks for the advice :wave:

Gemma

[Frances]

I'm glad your happy Gemma, it's the most important thing.

My problem is that I thought taking pills would help me deal with the loss of my son and I suppose hoping I could control the grief so I wouldn't make people feel uncomfortable with me because I seem to cry at the drop of a hat, But of course this is quite natural and people will have to deal with their own feelings.

So taking pills didn't stop me feeling bad and they never will. But I have put on heaps of weight and so feel depressed about that, this turns into a vicious circle. So I'm going to stop so I can at least know if I really need to take anything.

I hope I haven't bored you too much.


Frances

[Gemma]

Hi Frances

I think that the loss of a child is the most horrendous thing any mother could experience. I cannot express my sadness for what you must be feeling. I lost my mother to cancer in 1994 and still cry whenever I think deeply about her and our lost relationship. I believe that my depression and anxiety were made so much worse by her death and my difficulty coming to terms with it.

I can certainly understand that your weight gain has made things for you much worse. I put on five stone (14 lbs to the stone) in about two-three years while she was sick and afterwards. I just stopped worrying about the weight. That was probably the only sensible thing I did at that time.

I thought I would just get over it but now with hindsight I realise I should have had grief counselling with a really good counsellor as well as commencing anti-depressants. Maybe I would have still gained the weight, but perhaps I wouldn't have suffered so much anguish for so long with the grief issues.

Good luck and above all be kind to yourself - don't worry about other people's discomfort if you cry - just do it. People may feel uncomfortable but they will also learn how much pain you are feeling and perhaps that will help them have a better understanding of the depth of your grief.

Gemma

[Frances]

Thanks Gemma for your kind words.

How do you go finding Low Carb foods in Victoria? Canberra is hopeless. I know there are places in Sydney now but still a bit inconvenient for us country girls.

What do you think of the Protein Power Plan?

F

[Gemma]

Hi Frances

I find it the same here - pretty hopeless. I see the adverts for food available in North America and wonder how long it will be before we can get some of those things here.

I love Protein Power. Would love to read PP Lifeplan, but not willing to purchase over the internet - waiting for it to be released here.

Have also read Atkins Age Defying Diet, Sugarbusters, Carb Addicts Healthy Heart book and a couple of Australian books by Donna Astin called Fat or Fiction and I can't think of the name of the second one by her, but it is really good. When I remember I'll post it here.

I live in Gippsland (south east section) in Vic. My husband and son were in Canberra recently for a short trip. A friend from work's daughter is at Uni up there too.

What plan do you like best?

Bye

Gemma

[Frances]

I've read a few, but I'm really not following anything, just low carbing. Not much seems to be happening.....how's you loss going?

Can you give me an idea of what you eat in a normal day? Maybe I can follow you!

F

[Gemma]

Hi Frances

I did a long reply a couple of days ago but got disconnected before I could press send and lost the lot. Will try again!

I really like PP but also have read two Aussie books by Donna Astin. The first one she wrote is called "Fat or Fiction" and the second is "Body Business". Both are really interesting - but the second one is particularly good. They should be available in Canberra.

I try to keep to the 30 grams or less carb per day, but sometimes go over.

Breakfast is usually eggs and bacon, ommlette, scrambled eggs etc or if I'm in a hurry a protein drink like "Mushashi" microfiltered whey powder in vanilla or chocolate - it is my favourite brand although I really like "Sculpt" vanilla too. I also have an instant decaf coffee with splenda and a dollop of cream - a real treat!

Lunch is usually just some type of meat: chicken, roast pork, beef slices, ham etc and green salad - perhaps a slice of beetroot and a little bit of grated carrot. Have grated tasty cheese sometimes too. Usually leave the dressing off at lunchtime.

Dinner is steak and salad or lo carb vegies such as silverbeet, (sliced, steamed and put in a greased casserole with layers of grated tasty cheese. Top with cheese and bake until cheese is golden and bubbling! Even if you don't like silverbeet it is really yummy) broccoli, cauliflower, small quantities of carrot or pumpkin, zuccini, onion (small quantity) and tomato sauteed together in butter, also mushrooms sauteed in butter - love this!!

Snacks are pretty non-existent now as I find I don't get hungry between meals any more - no more gnawing hunger pains. I find that really amazing!!!

If I do have snacks or visitors for drinks etc, I buy a variety of nuts and high protein/low carb dips and serve it with carrot, celery and cucumber strips (don't have much of the carrot though myself).

I like to have a glass of red wine some nights or brut champagne on the weekends - allowable on PP if you count the carbs (also okay in small amounts on Aropax)

Have been stationary on the weight loss for approx 4 weeks. I find I go along in plateaus and sudden drops: ie, lose for a couple of weeks, stationary for a couple of weeks - plateaus have lasted as long as 6-8 weeks (over Christmas) but then it will drop a kg or two over the next couple of weeks. I don't mind as I think it has a lot to do with hormonal fluid retention changes during the month. The thing I like is that I haven't put any kgs back on.

Wow, sorry this is so long!

Bye for now and good luck :wave:

Gemma

[Frances]

Thanks Gemma,

It sounds similar to me except the veggies and salads.I'm too scared to eat them. My weight loss seems non existant...but it may happen, but I loose interest before the loss would probably happen, then I start again and have to wait again.....aren't I stupid. Hopefully this time I will persevere and one day I'll weigh myself and it will have happened!!

Frances

[Cali]

Gemma and Frances, there is a great site called Picture of Health which is based in Sydney and you can oder low carb foods over the net. They have things like muffin mixes (only half a gram per muffin), biscuit mixes, flap jack mixes and porridge and lots of high protein low carb choccy bars. I've ordered chocolate and muffins and they are both high quality and nice. The muffins are good for breakfast when you can't face another egg. This is the site:
www.pictureofhealth.com.au

Cali

[Cali]

Frances could you tell me if you had the side effects of a dry mouth and slight nausea when first taking aropax? I don't know if it has kicked in yet - I'm only into my second week on it - so it might be something else.
Cali

[Gemma]

Hi Cali

Thanks for the info on the Pict of Health site - will take a look later.

I know you directed your question re Aropax side affects to Frances, but as I'm on it too, I thought I'd give you an answer. I know that dry mouth was a bit of an issue for me but it went away. I was lucky and had no nausea at all. I am told by others I know taking it that these side affects do taper off once your body gets used to it, although I would imagine if they didn't, you would be wise to mention them to your Dr and ask for a change in meds.

How is the weather up there on the Gold Coast? We have been having amazing electrical storms in South East Victoria - had to buy a new modem today as a lightning strike close to the house cooked the old one on Monday morning!

At least we don't live in Sydney - what an amazing time they have had over the past couple of years!!

Bye now

Gemma :roll:

[Cali]

Thanks Gemma.
Weather up is is finally getting cooler, it's been a long humid summer, makes it difficult to exercise or even move. After my yoga class I've felt like I've run 10 kilometres in the sun. It rained this morning very heavily and freshened things up, but no storms.
I miss Victoria, I used to live in Melbourne. I even liked the drizzly cold winters, I have a thing for big heavy coats - quite impossible up here!

[Gemma]

Hi Cali

My parents always went to Qld for 6 or 8 weeks over winter as they loved it up there - but they felt it was too hot in summer to move there. Have a few relatives who moved up and are still there - Gold Coast and another lot at Buderim.

Like you I don't mind the drizzly Melbourne weather - find the extreme heat debilitating - and so hard to maintain any exercise plan in.

Glad it is cooling down up there!

Bye now

Gemma

[Jimsgems]

I have been chronically depressed for most of my life, it started at about 12 and I'm 55 now. I'm successful despite crushing depression and no help, I'm just too stupid to roll over and play dead. I've led a somewhat normal life, whatever that is, I was a Eagle Scout, a Green Beret (before it was cool) and had a fairly successful career so far. I’ve just lost 100+ pounds and recently started on Welbutrin 300mgs a day, I haven’t noticed much and I understand it takes a while. I’ve been to therapists and the one thing for sure is… they are more messed up that I am, and relative ineffective, including wife #4, "The Psycho Psychotherapist", but that’s another story in itself, for another place and time.

[Cheryl R]

I've been on prozak for almost 1 year, 10 mg... for anxiety and due to the fact that I lost 2 sisters 1 to cancer 1 to a heart attack in a matter of months. I also had an unbearable situation at work which is now resolved...but any way... I had been gaining weight at about 10 to 15 pounds a year. I haven't gained any since I started on prozak and infact have lost about 10 pounds since I started taking it.
I have been trying to lose weight for many years...and not having success. I do not want to go back to the way I felt before prozak...so I will be on it yet for awhile.

[Gemma]

Hi Jim and Cheryl

Jim, fantastic that you have been able to maintain a relatively normal life despite depression. I think there are lots of people out there "existing" rather than "living" and that when it is the chemical imbalance depression or anxiety, while counselling can perhaps give people new ways to think about things, the chemical imbalance will generally "rule". Like you, visiting a psychologist, attending stress management courses etc, did nothing to relieve the actual sensation of anxiety or depression, it just gave me different ways to think about it and also made me feel bad that I couldn't use my different ways of thinking to actually "make" myself feel better. Thank God I found a Dr who thought Aropax would be worth trying! Boy, was she right!

Good luck with the Wellbutrin - hope it kicks in and works for you, and WOW - fantastic weight loss :thup: - I have only shed 31 lbs yet with lots still to go!

Laughed at your comment about marrying a Psycho Psychotherapist! I don't imagine that experience helped your depression!!!!!!! :eek:

Hi Cheryl

I have heard lots of reports of Prozac being good for weight loss - I have found even Aropax helps in that I feel good and don't want to comfort eat!. Good luck and like you I have no intention of coming off the meds while I feel so much happier. I know I am easier to live with for my family as I just feel so much more "alive"

Your loss of your two sisters so close together must have been absolutely dreadful! I can't imagine how you got though it! Thank goodness you sought help from your Dr and your Dr was sensible enough to prescribe Prozac. Wow, what a relief the situation at work resolved as that must have been close to the "final straw" at a terribly difficult time - life often seems to throw everything at you at the one time doesn't it!? So glad you are losing weight AND feeling so much better!

Bye now

Gemma

[EveLee]

Hi, Jim . . . Love that name . . . JimsGems. If you care to share, what happened, if anything, at 12? What do you think the root of your depression is? Is there family depression? Were there significant life events?

Are you familiar with Self Matters by Phil McGraw? I'm currently working it. It's really challenging, but, I think it will be productive. I, too, spent years in therapy. However, I feel I got a lot out of it. My life has been one of recovery; seeking answers that will promote healthier living. All in all, everything has pointed me in a direction of better functioning. I guess there is no magic and the effects will always exist at some level.

[Cheryl R]

My 4th wife was a psycho psychotherapist sounds like a great title for a book, I'd buy it.
I've been reading boring romance novels while my foot is propped in the air over my head....I think reading that book would have speeded my recoverie...the things it got going through my head. :daze: :daze: :daze: :daze:

[Jimsgems]

EveLee;

My "handle" JimsGems is the URL to my business site. I am a gem and jewelery appraiser and I put the site up for customer service.

I've "owned" the name since 1989 and use it all the time... jim~ jimsgems.com is my e:mail www.jimsgems.com is the address of my web site and everyone is welcome to visit, I don't sell anything off the site yet, so I don't think there is any conflict.

I was thinking about your question and I can't come up with anything that happened specifically, and it could have been 10 or 15. One of my closest friends, dating from around that time, commented in a conversation that I was always very angry and that he never understood it. I’ve mellowed now but I was a very angry person and channeled that anger into accomplishment rather than outwardly, on others. I was a Boy Scout, Eagle Scout, Green Beret (before it was cool) a policeman (naturally) and a investigator, I retired from the force and became a successful engineer with a good lifestyle.

Is the Doctor Phil you spoke about the same one as on the Oprah Show? If it is good, I haven’t read any of his books, but I like his folksy, down home style and he seem very squared away. I’m forever using his phrase; "and how’s that working for you?" I’ve always felt that my chronic depression would be OK as long as I could be constantly doing activity, but being off work due to a lay off, I’ve had lots of time for introspection and looking for work is one of the hardest things I think anyone has to put up with. There are so many what ifs, what if I did this instead of that. I’ve finally stopped doing that so much and concentrated on what I have to do now. I asked my endocrinologist about Welbutrin and he told me it had very few side effects and once it kicks in it is very helpful. In a month or two, I’ll have to ask myself; "how’s that working for you?"

Be well and have fun.

[Lessara]

I just wanted to relieve your fears about Prozac, I've been on 20mg of it and it hasn't stalled me yet :D

Hi Jim! Haven't see you in a while!! Hope things are continuing to be good on your end :)

[Cheryl R]

I can't imagine getting through this last month of Pain in the foot (literally) without my meds.
dh is driving me crazy...he is pampering me to no extent. Everytime I get up he gets on my case to put your shoe back on...get your foot up..it's been over 3 weeks now... I think I will get my doctor to write dh a note saying I can be out of bed for a while and that my foot doesn't need to be up 110% of the time anymore...and that the shoe is for walking and it doesn't need to be on if I walk to the bathroom as long as I walk on the heel or side of my foot.
I know he does it because he loves me and he says he wants it to heal right so we can get back to our long romantic walks. When we first started dating about 5 years ago, we both lost weight because of our long walks.
OK...so I got off subject a little...but I'm so glad I'm home alone for a few hours, I'm sitting at the computer barefooted and loving it.
I see the doc tomorrow..I'm hoping he lets me go back to work. It really is better. I hardly have any swelling now.
Wish me luck

[EveLee]

Gemma . . . "Existing rather than living . . ." makes quite a statement. And, oh how true it is for so many people. What is living? What is existing? And, there must be so much in between. You've got me thinking.

Cheryl . . . I can understand your appreciation for the hours of alone time. Feels so good. I seem to have a lot of it now and really enjoy it. Hope your foot has a speedy recovery; would do some hands on healing if you were closer. Oh, well, my thoughts are there.

Jim . . . Yes, I'm talking about the Dr. Phil on Oprah. This latest book, Self Matters, is really good. I'm working through slowly; can't handle too much at one time. I think, though, that it is more focused on resolving life issues. I have a lot of those, so there is a lot of work to be done. I love the format; it's very structured (don't get me wrong, I'm not). And, that makes it easier to get to the stuff. I just keep taking one bit at a time. I can't even read too many pages at a time. I get overwhelmed.

The combination of the work in the book and some recent cranio-sacral therpy treatments is really pulling the issues together. They're falling together from early on experiences to current behaviors.

It's a humbling experience. Humility is good.

[corrie8]

I'm taking paxil for depression, have been for about 1 year. It's really helped with the fuzzy head disconnected feeling. I've been losing weight since I started of the LC food plan, so it doesn't seem to inhibit weight loss.
Corrie8

[EveLee]

Hi . . . Tell me more about the fuzzy head. Sounds familiar. Haven't had a clue what it was about. Thanks.

[animaldoc]

I'm off to the doctor on Tuesday to stop the Celexa (as planned). I'm not going to switch to anything else as I should be out of my SAD time, and I will only be at this job until the end of June (YAY-I'm almost outta here!). Hopefully my weight loss will start up again.....

-animaldoc :wave:

[Cheryl R]

I'm not giving up my meds...now way....I've been on prozak 10mg for about 8 months... too much going on in my family. I also started a new job...(In my same department) and I've only been doing it for 3 days...and so far so good. I've been staying relaxed and calm. I know this was a good move for me, not even taking into account the raise. I think I will like this job a lot. I'm staying on my meds for at least another 6 month, that's when my prescription will run out...and I will decide then wether to see my doc and get another rx.
but...go luck to you in getting off meds.
Cheryl

[EveLee]

Your posts support the whole idea that nothing is the right thing for everyone. It's good to see people who know what is best for them.

[animaldoc]

Oh yes, I would absolutely encourage anyone who thinks they should stay on their meds to do so! We had decided when I started, to stop them in the Spring after I made it through the winter since my SAD should be better and my job is ending soon (a VERY good thing). Hope it helps me start losing again!

-animaldoc :wave:

[Jimsgems]

animaldoc and anyone else...

I lost my job in January'02 and my stress level is for all purposes is non existant! Despite crushing depression despite medication (Wellbutrin 2X a day) but just as I have done for the last 35 years, I just keep going, kinda like that darn enegizer bunny. I have been at the effect of persons 1/2 my age since interviewing and rejection is largely based on very real age discrimination.

Realizing full well there is nothing I can do to overcome the way they feel about hiring someone their fathers age and other biases. I'm doing what I can, I've lost over 100 lbs to date, I'm 72% of the way to my goal. I've shaved my mustashe and am dying my hair some what darker as I'm almost totally gray. It really bothers me that we have seemed to have gotten to a place where experience and abilities don't seem to matter, just youth and enthusiam.

Well good luck to you all and good luck in your search.

[Frances]

I think you look very sexy and very employable. If they don't hire you for the sophisticated atmosphere you would bring to a workplace then they are mad.

I can identify with you a bit, I had to get through the child bearing years to be taken seriously in the workplace.


Frances

[Jimsgems]

Frances;

Frances;

Thank you for your special kindness and words of encouragement. It gives me a boost. I truly know what you mean, I watched my wife hit the "Glass Ceiling" while she was VP of New Store Construction at See’s Candy, Little Cesars Pizza, while she was making a very good income, the board rooms were "Off Limits" in those companies anyway, and when she lost her vision, they fired her w/o cause. That’s speaking of See’s on that one.

Today she runs a business accounting and tax service out of our home. There is always a way to provide, I’m currently looking and in the process and doing my "due diligence" before I start a business representing other manufacturers product as a independent agent. I truly believe that… " where He guides, He provides."

Thank you again. Jim

[EveLee]

I agree with Frances . . . You are quite handsome.

Where he guides, he provides. Isn't that the truth. You seem to be pretty much at peace with the world. How are you guided?

I study A Course in Miracles. The premise of which is to surrender everything and let happen what needs to happen. Not a simple task; well, actually quite simple if we can just do it.

This has brought some peace to my chaotic world. For that, I am most grateful.

[Jimsgems]

SPECIAL be warned, Christian Values will be expressed below if that cause any personal discomfort… Please don’t read any further. The "G" & "J" word will be used in my testament, well actually it my way of answering a question.

I am a rabid, Bible believing Christian. I was raised In the Baptist church and later we moved to what is called the "Frozen Chosen" (that’s an inside joke) we worship with a Presbyterian, USA congregation, I’m currently an Ordained Elder in the church and I have sung in the choir for 16 +years.

I amalmost in spite of myself, at times; very calm and even somewhat mellow. I do have a very hard side and I try daily to keep my angry side in the barn and bedded down. I was a Airborne Ranger (Green Beret, before it was cool) and served in Vietnam, twice and still carry the scars, both foreign and domestic, the injuries and scars I got in Vietnam have healed, the ones I got here at home are slower to heal, but they are and they will. I was also in Police work as a Crime Scene Investigator as a sworn officer, until I was run over by a fleeing felon, almost killing me and causing me lots of pain and discomfort, I couldn't work for almost two years, six major operations and 16 years later, I'm doing really well. I have forgiven the man who ran me over and the local DA who gave him a sentence in a plea bargain of 18 days in jail. Hey, I don’t call it the Justice System, for there isn’t much fairness, you just have to let go of the awful feeling , they can really burn you up inside.

I constantly work towards my salvation and that of others, I chose the vehicle of music as a ministry. I sing in addition to the choir at church with a Southern Gospel Quartet, Living Faith is the group name, we sing concerts in nursing homes, hospitals, churches and almost any where we can call a group together, we will sing. We are currently working on a CD Project as it’s euphemistically called in the music industry jargon, believe you will all know when it is produced.

I take my cares and woes to the foot of the Cross, everyday and I pick them up almost at the same time, like He doesn’t know, but, I am learning the path by traveling it. I’m not a sidewalk preacher by any means, I think that is rude, but my music is for the Glory of my God and His Son, Jesus Christ. I call from Him to gather others by word and song. I rest calmly in His arms and am calmed by His presents in my life and His Works. Amen and Amen

Sermon and my testament closed.

[EveLee]

I grew up in Tennessee, in the country, as a Baptist. The Baptist church played a very important part in my life. It was through the church that I was able to feel attached and cared for. Everything happened with the people at church. For that I feel great gratitude.

However, as I approached adulthood, I became angry with God. I felt betrayed; if there was a god, then, I didn't want to know him/her. I felt god had played a cruel joke on me by placing me in such an abusive and chaotic family.

Then, I took an astronomy class at University of Michigan. I was overwhelmed by the massiveness of the universe. Then, I knew for sure that life as presented in the Baptist Church could not have meaning.

I know what you mean by the singing. I was always moved deeply by the songs of the church. I felt so close to god during the songs.

I rebelled against god for many years. Then, I heard about Marianne Williamson's book, A Return to Love, about 10 years ago. It took me 6 mos. to pick it up; I was embarassed to look at a book that had god and Jesus in it.

Then a friend talked to me about A Course in Miracles. Again, I was embarassed that he was talking about Jesus in public.

Somewhere along the line, I fell to my knees and rekindled my loving relationship with a power much greater than me. I am comfortable saying God, Jesus, or whatever. I know where to go every day and I know where to go when I need help.

Thanks for sharing. Thanks also for your involvement in Vietnam. My brothers were there and my friend died there at age 19. I am sorry for the treatment that all of you received when you returned home. It was inexcusable.

I salute your ability to forgive and to persevere.

[Jimsgems]

I know what you are saying, I had a 20 year detour into the belief that a loving God could never ever let me do some of the killing, murders and other genuine awful stuff I have done in the name of God and Country. I couldn’t forgive myself, I was a successful jewelry designer and manufacturer and made more money than I would have held as impossible. I fell into drugs and drink trying to cover up the demons and one day I got it! I got it that I was killing myself and I quit everything at that moment and no drugs or drink in 18 years. I had by that time had several families or at least wives, I was a tough person to live with and I suffered fools badly, and I was the worst fool of them all. When I got that everything else fell back into place. I went back to church and found the kind of forgiveness by pure Grace and not by works of any kind, certainly not by me. I found even the wealth in my heart to forgive others and most of all, to forgive myself, that was much harder than I would have ever thought. I hope you continue on your journey, that He makes your way easy, that you are kept safe from the things of the world that you really don’t need and that the words; "He Loves You, connects directly to your heart and your head.

[Jimsgems]

Dear Ones;

In my search for a more youthful appearance , here is my progression. I'd really like to know what you like, don't like or...

Last Week...

[Jimsgems]

This way yesterday... No mustache, OK.

[Jimsgems]

This is today... No mustashe, dye job and a haircut. OK.

[Frances]

............but I like the grey hair better. But then I have a thing for men with grey hair, so I maybe biased.


Frances

[EveLee]

Hi, Frances . . . I can't believe you're sitting in Australia and we're chatting here. Wow, how did all of this happen?

Jim, you look great either way.

Thanks for the kind words. I look at everything that has happened in my life as leading me to where I am today. Without the experiences, I wouldn't be able to do what I do today. I truly have taken lemons and made lots of lemonade.

I work in a high school. I wrote grants and brought in money to do all of the things for kids that are usually not possible. For example, I have a group of kids I have worked with for 7 years in school. I was their teacher in middle school; now, I'm not teaching, but just looking after them. Many are living in out of friends homes, etc. The graduating seniors will have access to prom tickets, tuxedos, dresses, pictures, etc. They have been supported with tutoring, food, clothing, etc.

My experiences have allowed me to empathize with their needs, to connect with them in a non-judgemental way.

[Jimsgems]

Dear One from Down Under;

You are kind; I like it too! I feel uncomfortable about this because it is a bit dishonest. I have a wife and family to support and an expensive race car too! So I gotta do, what needs to be done for the short term, for my economic survival in the long run and what’s better for me and my family.

I feel like I've earned each and every strand of gray hair I have left but, here in the states, age, experience and how young you are seems to mean more that the "real" stuff that really matters. Does this make sense?

EveLee; You are an inspiration, you are wonderful.

Well, I off to sing, see ya all later. Bye for now (TTFN) J

[Frances]

It's pretty cool isn't it EveLee,

I love these forums and listening to all of you, I wonder if we could be as open if we were face to face..........writing your feelings down is a great uninhibitor.

Frances

[Gemma]

Hi Jim, EveLee, Frances and all

I thing you look fantastic Jim - love the dye job and you look great without the mustache (although I love the beard and mustache look)

I have to agree that Western society is amazingly dim when it comes to age and the wonderful opportunities it offers as well as the wealth of knowledge, experience and skill older people have to offer. I had this discussion with a journalist friend last weekend and we both agreed that there was no way we wanted to stop working at 55, 60 or 65 (the standard retirement ages in the world of Oz downunder. Frances will know what I am talking about - old age are dirty words here and even worse it begins at about 55!!!!!!!! How mad!

Isn't it great to be able to communicate like this with like-minded people?

I have to say, though, that I am RC (Retired Christian) after many years of considering my options and studying lots of different translations of the Bible. Mum was a staunch and lovely Anglican and Dad is an atheist - I ended up following Dad.

One of my brothers was Catholic and the other Pentacostal (Christian Revival Crusade) quite a mixture eh? However the Catholic brother is now atheist, and the Pentacostal is agnostic, however the problems for the Pentacostal brother's children being brought with all that Fire and Brimstone and Devil stuff has caused major problems. Of the four children now aged between 24 and 32, two boys were both admitted to Psych hospitals with depression, paranoia and anxiety, before they were 25, one of his two daughters is bulimic, and other daughter is just plain screwed up! Can't think why I have doubts about some formalised religions. Mind you the RC (Retired Catholic) brother has three very well adjusted childred - so formalised religion can't be all bad as the three children all attended Catholic junior/primary school.

Enough already

Fantastic work Jim

Hi Frances in Canberra

Good luck EveLee

Talk to you all soon

Gemma

I do miss singing in Church though - all those rousing English hymns etc - but its the only thing I do miss though.

Like you Jim, I have sung in many choirs - school (many years ago and church up until a few years ago - and think that singing is a fantastic release of internalised issues - grief, joy, anger, desperation, all those and more! I bet singing helps lift your depression.

[Lessara]

I have to admit I wandered about from my Catholic up bringing... partially because I had a Dad who went to church and beated me up on a daily basis.

But in my late 20s and early 30s I had miraculous things happen to me that just couldn't be explained. Then one day, I found out through my priest (I had been preparing for a divorce) that a priest notified my state's diocise (I have really bad spelling) that I was witnessed by others to be "glowing". This creeped me right out. I didn't know what it meant. The priest suggested I might be a real servant of God and I thought "you have got to be kidding? After all the sins I did? Come on, he's got to have better people than me." The priest then said, "What do you think God sees in you?"
Well that question lead to alot of soul searching and mind thinking. That journey has lead me to self acceptance and open mindedness. I don't regularly go to church but when I do its full heartedly. My faith has never been stronger. :cool:

[EveLee]

As I read these posts, I am amazed at how similar we all are. And, even in the differences, there is an underlying acceptance and peacefulness.

Lessara . . . Is there more to the story about "glowing?" Several years ago, I had a similar experience. Three times within a year or so, people told me I look white or like an angel. I think each of us is complete spirit; some can look beyond the physical body.

Gemma . . . Singing in church (even though I have a very bad singing voice) was such a joyful experience. I loved to sing and still do.

Frances . . . If we were together physically, it would probably take longer to open up, but I think we probably would. I love to talk about meaningful issues in a respectful way. I love also to discover all of who I am and I know it's in relationships that I can do that best.

Jim . . . Thanks.

[Lessara]

At the time of the "event" I was thinking about becoming a priest, yes I know you can't be a priest if you are female but I had this great calling... I felt something holding me in a warm hug.. it was scary but calming at the same time.
I got these feelings often when I was younger. I haven't had a "hug" in a few years. But I've been so low and haven't attending church or prayed until recently.
Maybe it was my spirit, or something more. I never heard anyone have a similiar experience. Until now.

[Jerzee]

You have mail :D

[TRiggs]

My sister had a similar experience. She heard the calling but did not want to be a nun and she now teaches Sunday school. She loves it and she is trying to get me into it now.

[Lessara]

That's quite interesting to hear!
I didn't want to be a nun either.
My mom tells me that at a young age I had the mass memorized and use to give mass to my stuffed animals. :rolleyes:
I have given thought to leave my catholic religion and go to a church where females can lead masses but then I got married and had children.. basically life got in my way or as I like to think of it, God had other plans for me. ;)

[TRiggs]

We are practically neighbors! I am fairly new to the area, I moved here from San Deigo. This weather will take a little getting used to and although I miss SD, this area does have its own special quality.

[Lessara]

I can't believe its going to be 82 degrees today! Wow!
Its funny, I have a friend name Mark, who has a friend who was in California but just moved to Massachusetts. Hmmm.. Curious isn't it.
So how long have you been in Mass? Are you near the ocean?
I remember when I moved from Hawaii to New Hampshire, what I missed was the Ocean! You know, the smell, the feel of the ocean wind...

[TRiggs]

I live in Plymouth and I moved here in January. This is probably the best lowcarb forum I have ever visited. The people here are so friendly and supportive, how could you go wrong? Do you guys email each other too?

[EveLee]

TRiggs . . . Yes, I agree with you; it is fun being here and the people know so much and are compassionate.

Lessara . . . I know the hug feeling, too. I was about to fly over Monterrey Bay in a very small plane (I was scared to death of flying in small planes.) when I was scooped up and held like a baby. It turned out to be one of the most fascinating experiences of my life.

Now, about the "hugs" . . . I do study A Course in Miracles. I believe the hug to be our natural state. However, we spend most of our time busying ourselves with frivolous chaos. If we could only be still, the hug is what would be left.

Everyone has potential for this completeness; few allow themselves to remember. The only thing we have to do is nothing.

Good to hear from you.

[Lessara]

I base my success on LCing and also on my mental state to this board. When you are on your own or don't have access to others with similiar experiences, I believe you are less successful than when you do have support.
I email back and forth all the time, and if you, a single parent want to email me about anything, you are welcome to do so.
I can only email at work so replys might not be timely ;)

Evelee, thank you for your reply. I loved your thoughts on the hug as I call it.

I have a question regarding meds.
I have a daughter who will be starting on Lithium soon and I was wondering how it will after her weight. It will be low dose and she is 15.

[Jimsgems]

If we could only be still, the hug is what would be left.
Everyone has potential for this completeness; few allow themselves to remember. The only thing we have to do is nothing. Evelee.

That is truly awsom... well stated. My natural state is a hug. It is the first thing when I meet you and it's the last thing when we part, it's warm, free, without strings and "other" considerations.

When you have be huged by me, you finish warmer and knowing... "God Almighty Lives" (I've be told that). The warmness, and the completeness brings not only peace and a feeling of security to others but, also to me. It might well be one of the major reasons for my wellbeing.

Sunday morning at church there are folks, young and old who come for their hug fix! My 87 year old "Prayer Warror", to most of the kids in the youth group. Some of them are stand offish at first... but they eventually drop by for a Hug, some of them that hug is all the tenderness and love they get all week. It brings tears to my eyes when I think of it.

Lessara; Oh how sorry I am, what was done to you by your father is/was a sin! Real and otherwise and is the kind of destructive forces working in the world. My father went to church and 6 day a week he drank himself to sleep, he was never abusive, that was my mothers job, until I was big enough to stop her. These were not bad people, just troubled and out of control with lifes situation but beating a child is one of the worst. The Bible states... "bring the children unto Me", not beat the children in My Name. I am so sorry.

Love and hugs. J

[TRiggs]

Hey Lessara, where do I find your email address? Forgive me, I am new here.

[Lessara]

If you can't find it there, look in my journal.

Jim: Thank you for your kind words! My father asked for my forgiveness when I was 21 or so. And I gave it freely.
Life is a learning adventure, it really is.

[Lessara]

Shall we go back to Antidepressant and Atkins topic again? :)

[EveLee]

but, we're having so much fun.

I wanted to say to Jim that I have no doubt the youngsters (and the oldies, too) really do appreciate the hugs). A little bit goes so far.

Actually, all of the things we're talking about relate back to depression and Atkins. All of our emotional issues are interwined with depression or any other mental illness.

Atkins is a way of eating that can certainly affect our bodies as well as our emotional states. And, I do believe we have to deal with the emotional in order to stabilize the physical.

So, I guess I'm suggesting a holistic approach.

[Gemma]

The subjects of hugs is interesting - probably needs its own thread!

I can remember hearing somewhere a few years ago that parents should never be the one to first "break" or end a hug with a child. It also mentioned that children need lots of hugs every day (can't remember the number that was mentioned but I remember thinking "wow, I thought I hugged my children alot, but now I'm not so sure!")

I immediately tried the unbroken hug, found it wonderful and have used it ever since. I never cease to be amazed how long a child likes to be hugged before they decide it is enough! I have a 20 year old daughter and a 17 year old son and both love hugs just as much now as they did when younger!

Great way of releasing tension, showing love and affection, grieving, and oh so many more things!

Interesting topic!

Gemma

[mselly572]

I have been on Zoloft 125/day for 3 years. Started this WOE one week ago and have lost 5 lbs. Personally, I believe you will lose, already I am noticing my mood is somewhat improved, actually I think I'm very encouraged just to be losing. Be kind to yourself, eat well and it will happen.

Wishing you all the best.

Elly :wave:

[EveLee]

mselly . . . good for you. That's great.

gemma . . . I agree that hugs are so important. We would probably need a lot less drugs if more parents hugged until the kids let go. I like that idea. That's great that your teens are still hugging.

[davelvnv]

Hi Trish, No ,DON'NT QUIT THE DIET .im LIVING proof you can do the atkins diet on antidepresants and lose the weight,and burn the ketones to.You may have to do with less carbs then some who arnt on them but it will work.Dang doc has got me on 2 meds Serzone and Zoloft and i do about 20 to 25 carbs a day also iv already lost 35lb .So don'nt give up you can do it,best of luck Dave.

[Gemma]

Hi Dave

You are doing so well - congratulations!! You sound so keen too, so keep up the good work! 35 lbs is fantastic. How do you keep your carbs so low? Have you started a journal?

Hi Elly

Great news that you have already noticed an improvement to your mood - I was on the Aropax first, but I do feel that the low carb has assisted further with levelling out the mood fluctuations. Good luck and keep up to good work!

Hi EveLee

Yes, I think you are right, although I did get lots of hugs from my family as a kid and still needed Aropax. We were a really affectionate family and I still remember one of my cousins being really surprised by how affectionate we always were, even though his Dad and my Mum were brother and sister. Really pleased also that my two still enjoy hugs!

Bye now

Gemma

[EveLee]

Gemma . . . As I wrote that post I knew there would be a response saying, yes, I did get hugs and I still need meds. But, I wrote it anyway. You're right. However, in some cases, it is the lack of attention, affection, etc. that contribute to environmental depression. Of course, many people have depression which is not induced by the environment. My daughter certainly received an abundance of hugs, and she still needs meds.

I, on the other hand, needed a few more appropriate hugs and much more positive attention. Fortunately, I have grown to fill that void in my life. For that I am grateful.

I gained lots of weight after beginning anti-depressants, but had begun to lose when I stopped the drugs.

Currently, I'm attempting to re-program myself for less carbs. I made it through almost all of today. I will begin again tomorrow. I am really triggered by emotional issues.

And, I have reached the point where it is not fun to eat the junk any more. It makes me sick.

[davelvnv]

Hi Gemma,Thank you for the kind remark.Congradulations to you also,you done really well.I don'nt keep a jornal,but im thinking about it at least for a carb count.I look at labels on everything i eat,and also i found this store-lo carb cafe.I can go there and get a chocalate ice cream malt,it taste as goog as the real thing,it has no sugar and only 4 carbs,also they have these candy bars that are wonderfull.Again no sugar and about 1 carb,they also taste like the real thing.That has helped alot,and i try and hike a good bit.How do you like the Protein power diet,do you burn the ketones on it?Best of luck ,Dave.

[Gemma]

Hi EveLee

Even if we did get lots of hugs it is true that the hug type demonstraton of affection is fantastic no matter what age. I work in aged care and it is well recognised that "skin hunger" is common for people who live in residential facilities or people who are single or widowed. The need for gentle human touch is integral to the health of the human psyche.

My family (close and extended) has a history of depessive problems or affective disorders as they call them now. While I believe my problems are no where as severe as some members of my family, I am still glad that the treatment I am on is so effective.


Hi Dave

I really like PP, but I don't think I burn ketones all the time - must at times but I don't worry too much, just as long as I lose a bit here an there along the way!

Fantastic for you to have a cafe where you can purchase low carb treats. Australia is way behind the US in recognising that low carb is okay and not "dangerous" to health.

I bought an ice-cream maker last week, and my daughter and son and I have been making all sorts of different flavours and trying out different combinations of cream, milk and evaporated milk. So far we have had plain vanilla, coconut - which had coconut essence and toasted dessicated coconut, evaporated milk vanilla which also had eggs, and chocolate and coconut. My son (who has a body fat of 8%) made himself some caramel ice-cream using caramel sauce - bad for him though!

We use Splenda to sweeten and at first thought that not having real sugar was making the ice-cream icy, but we think it is just the combination of milk types that makes the difference. We tried double cream but that was awful - sort of "coated" the roof of the mouth and tongue with a waxy coating! Yuck.

The ice-cream maker cost $50 so we think that by the time we have made 30 litres of ice-cream we will have saved the cost if the maker. One good thing with it is that you can make "soft serve" and eat it straight away. It is great - and I won't have to buy ice-cream any more.

Good luck and enjoy your hiking (where do you like to hike?)

Gemma

[Frances]

Hi Gemma, I'm pleased your still around

I really need some words of encouragment and advice from you all........

I seem to have lost the plot at the moment.

After 7 years of living in this one rental property I have to move. I'm happy and sad about this. I'm happy because this place is becoming a dive (the owner wont spnd any money on the place). sad because this is the house I was in when my son died.

I'm sad because I have decided that I'm moving into a place with myself and my daughter and my partner is getting his place (my idea), and I'm happy because I have decided that I'm moving into a place with myself and my daughter. Thank god for drugs hey?

As far as keeping to a diet forget it, I don't know what I'm doing..

Here is a photo of Kym, this was taken by a friend and he fixed it up for me. I was never big into photos, why bother when you've got the real thing.......just goes to show, never take anything for granted. It's his first anniversary on the 23rd May and life sucks!

[phonemarsh]

Frances, What a beautiful boy !!!
The only thing I can think of to say is this: there really IS a God who loans us children to raise while we are here in this world.
He was compassionate enough to make sure you had a daughter to help you through this seemingly unbearable time in your life because without her, He knew you might not have enough motivation yourself to go on....
She's lost her brother and really needs her mother. You WILL see him again someday; meanwhile make him proud and find moments to enjoy in life, then you will smile, and eventually there will be some laugher in your life again. It will be on your timetable, though. Not when people tell you, "It's about time you.... (fill in the blank with some well-intentioned advice)"

I sure wish it was within my power to email you a huge hug from one mother to another so assume I did just that! With that I can say you are officially in my prayers.:rose:

[Gemma]

Oh Frances, I hope you are coping - yes I am still around and think of you often - I wish I could give you a big hug! :bhug: What a gorgeous photo - thank heavens you had that one - like you I'm not much of a photographer so I understand how much it must mean to have such a lovely one of Kym.

How is your daughter? Is she happy to be moving?

When do you move - are you able to choose somewhere or are rental places really hard to find in Canberra? Is the relationship with your partner not okay or is it just that you need space.

You will soon find the plot again - be kind to yourself - remember that we are all sending positive thoughts your way to help lift the weight bearing down on you at present.

Wish I could say more to help - please hang in there (as you said "thank god for drugs hey!")

Bye now :there:

Gemma

[Frances]

Thanks Gemma and phonemarsh................he is georgous isn't he!

Alex is uncertain of the move, because she thinks it may be her fault that Mark and I are living apart, but it is just because I need me space with her. I feel like I need to be in control of things for awhile. I felt I lost my confidence when Kym died, and if I can get this right I may feel better, who knows but I need to try.

Mark is trying to be supportive, but he doesn't quite understand. It will probably be better for him too, not having to live with a nutter. I love Mark and I'm not breaking up with him.

I have just been approved for a unit in Fisher, not far from where I am now. The rental prices up here are getting higher by the minute, but what can you do?

Thanks for your words and hugs...........I do feel a bit better today, I even cryed on the poor R/E agent when she came to show the property! Ugh!

Frances

[Cali]

Frances your son is beautiful. How lucky that you are his mother and that he knew you and was and is loved by you and you by him. That is a blessing in your life.

Nothing beautiful and good can be let go of easily, so don't let go, treasure him every second, keep him warm in your heart, keep him alive in spirit.

When my wonderful father died, I spent my childhood with him looking down on me like a guardian angel. I know he knows I love him and feel him there.

I am neither into communing with "the spirits" nor am I religious, but I believe that those close to you, whom we love and have loved are never apart from us.

[Frances]

Thank you Cali, I beleive that Kym is out there with my father and I hope they are both watching over Alex & myself. I have a friend who says she has seen Kym sitting on her stairs with an older man (I think my father), I got a bit jealous..........I want Kym to come to me so I can see him and know he's alright. My memory of him now is just the photo I have of him, and how he was in hospital leading up to his death. I want to be able to remember him when he was himself, but it's not happening. I'm told it will come back but it's been almost a year and nothing so far. I think it's why it's hard for me at the moment.

[davelvnv]

Hi Gemma,That all sounds so good,i sure miss some of the sweets ,like cake mmmm.Where do i hike?Just about 20 miles out west of las vegas there is this place called Red Rocks Park.Its got all types of hiking,flat out on the desert floor ,or one of the many canyons.I uasualy try and do at least an hour or two.I love hiking in the great outdoors so its pretty easy for me,plus it releases the endorfins.See ya Dave

[Jimsgems]

Dave;

I envy you being so close to Red Rocks, it is a very beautiful area of the world to walk about in and to photograph as well. I've done some commercial photo shoots in the canyons for Mitsubishi a few years ago, the area produced wonderful photos, the backgrounds and skys are just beautiful.

I've always been a closet desert rat, the heat doesn't bother me, I respect the environment and take care when I do get out in it and being a gemologist and photographer has it's own rewards.

I was just up in the Sacramento Delta and panned for gold in the rivers and streams including the area of Sutters Creek where the California gold rush started. I brought home some nice small nuggets, about 1/2 oz. total, but the water sure was cold. I use the small gold flakes as tiles on a ring or pendant, this years find will make about six good pieces, if I’m careful.

I discovered that traveling and low-carbing is not all that tough and I was able to stay right on plan despite other members of the party ordering double chocolate sundaes and the like. I gotta tell you I’m really committed to the WOE, not even tasting the sweets is a miracle in itself.

[Gemma]

Hi Frances

This is probably something you have already tried, but I have to just say it anyway - have you tried grief counselling? There is just so much relief of being able to tell your story to someone who is a not only a wonderful listener, but who can also help you to work out your own strategies to get over the many humps and hollows of the grief experience. We are expected to "get over it" by so many people out there that we become reluctant to be open about it sometimes - this is where talking to a trained grief counsellor could be a wonderful relief for you and for your daughter.

We have an organisation called Relationships Australia here in Victoria and I believe it has trained counsellors who are often really helpful - I don't know how they charge though.

Also there are often grief and general counsellors at your local community health service/centre and the charge is really low (our local CHS only charges $5.00 per session).

Good luck!


Gemma

[davelvnv]

Hi Jim,Im sorry im so late on my responce.Yes your right red rocks is a very asome place.I was hiking up there sunday in pine creek canyon, and heard something iv never heard in all my days hiking.The low growl of a mountain lion,man was i a little nervous.The hair on the back of my neck stood on end ,and i did'nt see it ,i kept an eye out for aways.Paning for gold sounds neat,i did'nt know if you could still find any.I have always had trouble on atkins traveling,seems like your limited to burger with no bun,and salad.Do you have any hints or sugestions,i will be forever gratefull.Take care jim,Dave.

[Jimsgems]

I understand your excitement and caution in that environment, if you snooze there you could easily die or be severely injured, no room for error, living in the Southern California Coastal Region, we have mountain lions and coyote attacks every year, even in residential areas but the worse cases happen in the foothill canyons, where joggers and hikers aren't paying attention until it’s too late.

Dave; gold panning is the least efficient way of getting the "yellow" out of rivers and streams, sluice operations can be very profitable, the work is cold and often dangerous, but profitable none the less, it is a lot of fun too. There is still a lot of gold in them thar’ hills... and rivers and streams.

About the traveling and low carbing... I eat breakfast, that easy almost anywhere and my fall back position when all else fails. I’m very fond of Chefs Salads, meat loaf and the old stand by Hamburger steak and when all else fails, a 1 pound T-bone steak or center cut prime rib, dinner salad, cottage cheese and tomato slices. I can do pretty well without going to far afield, a few (I mean a few) extra carbs are not going to send you screaming from the restaurant. I’m fairly confident that you can low carb it in eating out.

You have In-&-Out Burgers in the Las Vegas area, here is a current list… in Clark County, Las Vegas… 2900 W. Sahara Ave. - 51 N. Nellis Blvd. - 4705 S. Maryland Pkwy. - 1960 Rock Springs Dr. and 4888 Industrial Rd.

I order a Double-Double with Cheese, Protein style (w/o bun, wrapped in lettuce leaf), sometime I have two, they are very, very good, I eat there about twice a week on average. Subway has Jerrod, In-&-Out Burgers could have me, and I would work for food too. Just kidding, I hope this helps. Be well.

[EveLee]

Wow . . . lots of posts and interesting ones at that.

Dave and Jim . . . I think I'm having an adventure when I walk in the woods in Metropolitan Detroit. The most I see is a deer and once, a fox. And, occasionally, hug a tree. That area sounds exciting. How do you keep safe?

Frances and Gemma . . . I agree with the grief counselling. I am a trained grief counsellor in the schools and done a lot of work in that area. It can be very helpful.

However, when I lost four people in one year, I was devastated. It took me 5 years to start to really let go. I still cry, but I'm getting to the point where I can celebrate their life, as well. I can talk about them and begin to keep them alive.

He doesn't need to come to you or anyone else. You are the one who can keep him alive by remembering him and loving him. But, grieving is a process, an important process.

I have been reading lately about unresolved childhood issues affecting our ability to grieve and move past the grief of loved ones. I think this is true for me. I feel like the very life is sucked out of me when I lose someone close. And, I'm at the age where people are going to die . . . maybe even me!!!

This is where the Dr. Phil book, Self Matters, is really helping me out because it takes me back and then moves me forward toward forgiveness. I'm also getting cranial-sacral therapy treatments which I think are encouraging healing.

My greatest gift is A Course in Miracles which brings me close to spirit and shows me the nonsense in all of my fretting. I do have a choice about how I live this life. And, I only get to do this one once.

At 55, I'd better get busy. Love to everyone.

[Gemma]

Hi EveLee, Frances and everyone

You are right EveLee that grief is a process, and it is important to recognise that it is a unique process for each individual that:

1 Doesn't have any rules about how you experience it

2 Doesn't have any rules about how long you experience it

3 Doesn't have any rules about how it "progresses" for each person (forget the idea that you "progress" through a series of particular "stages" of grief as this has now been rejected by grief counsellors)

4 While it frightens or upsets other people sometimes, it is important to accept that and to encourage yourself not to feel guilty for making them uncomfortable - sharing your grief with you can be a chance for them to learn about grief

5 Doesn't just "go away" after a "while". You continue to be affected by feelings of grief forever - it is how you interpret those feelings that will define your recovery

Bye now

Gemma

[Frances]

All that you say is very true.

I suppose I'm shocked by the intensity of the loss. I know he's my beautiful boy and I miss him terribly.......but the loss is becoming greater not lessening. When he died, I just did what I had to do and I could talk about him and how he died quite easily ............but now I cry at the smallest mention of his name.

I was actually worried by how well I was handling it, everyone said I was a tower of strength. I thought maybe I didn't love him enough.

It's always been my way, that if something bad happened I just said to myself "Yeah well.............." and move on and I thought that's what I was doing with Kym.

Maybe I never knew how to grieve. I have built up a wall since I was little to protect myself from people hurting me because I was overweight.

This is the first time I've felt so deeply about anything............. and it is actually a hole in my being that I can actually feel! I've heard people say this and didn't really appreciate it.


Frances

[EveLee]

. . . the pain of losing a child. Can't even begin. Some people do seem to have greater resilency re: loss; I'm not one of those.

At my worst, I have fallen onto my knees and asked god simply to help me. Please help me. No requests of how, just to help. Without exception, I would be lifted. These are my miracles in life . . . when I can (without seeming cause) just go into a different space.

I have cried at least one river.

My prayers are with you. I will remember you tonight and send healing energies your way.

[Gemma]

Oh Frances, it's agony that just doesn't go away. Like EveLee I can't imagine the depth of that agony. I believe we all have "unavoidables" in life - grieving for Kym is your unavoidable truth at present - live in the moment and do what you can to find joy in that moment. Don't look into the future, just exist in this moment - I find sometimes this helps.

Perhaps you "coped" as a tower of strength to help everyone else get through it and it is only now that time has passed that you can allow yourself the grief you have held inside.

Gemma

[davelvnv]

Hi Jim,Thanks for the helpfull tips and IN N OUT burger locals.Iv been to in n out very good,the other ideas sound just as well.Lately when im going for a burger i take low carb bread along works real well.See ya Dave

[EveLee]

Dave . . . You really can find something to eat at most restaurants. And, I try to choose those that have something more than minimal since I eat out a lot.

Frances . . . Your initial reaction sounds very much like the rote stage of "denial." As I flew to Florida for my friend's funeral, I kept thinking that she probably wasn't dead, but just wanting to bring all of us together. How weird is that?

Then, over the first couple of years, I just couldn't put my arms around it all. I had this feeling of . . . where is she? Where is she?

It's just now, 3 years later, that I'm beginning to be able to remember here and visit the places we went to.

The difference is losing an immediate family member is that there really is a hole. That person is no longer there in your life physically and every other way.

I should have gone for support, but, I was too overwhelmed. That was a mistake. Go find someone to help you through this. I think groups are great. Here, the funeral homes hold support groups.

I did pray for you and will continue to.