Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows

[Tcomeau]

Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199

Interesting quote:
------------------------
Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic
Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us a diet
that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never
recommended it before this, and I certainly wouldn't start
anybody on it now.''
-----------------------

Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?

Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the American
Dietetic Association; Associate Professor of Pediatrics,
Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY. Scientific
advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded through the
International Food Information Council Foundation (IFIC) by
Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation,
Keebler Company, Kellogg Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods
USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association,
Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the
Snack Food Association.
(http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed
11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory board for the American
Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
(http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03)
Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in an article on
weight-loss strategies. (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_re-
sults/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
accessed 11/12

The vultures are circling.....

TC

[Tintinet]

tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message
news:<b550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
> Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>
> http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>

At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.

[Hua Kul]

tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message
news:<b550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
> Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>
> http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>
> Interesting quote:
> ------------------------
> Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic
> Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us a diet
> that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never
> recommended it before this, and I certainly wouldn't start
> anybody on it now.''
> -----------------------
>
> Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
>
> Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the
> American Dietetic Association; Associate Professor of
> Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY.
> Scientific advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded through
> the International Food Information Council Foundation (IFIC)
> by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation, H.J. Heinz
> Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg Company, Kraft Foods,
> Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National Confectioners
> Association, Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee
> Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
> (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed
> 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory board for the
> American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
> (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed 11/12/03)
> Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in an article on
> weight-loss strategies. (http://www.ballyfitness.com/rapid_-
> results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.asp?article=16;
> accessed 11/12
>
> The vultures are circling.....
>
> TC

TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover these
connections. Keep up the good work and thank you for keeping
us so well informed.

--Hua Kul huaREMOVEkul@hotmail.com

[Tcomeau]

tintinet1@iwon.com (tintinet) wrote in message
news:<35f5861e.0402120708.5135db27@posting.google.com>...
> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message
> news:<b550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
> >
> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
> >
>
> At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.

I am 5'10" and 182 lbs and I am not overweight. I am a
medium-sized muscular male. If I lost 10 lbs I would
look gaunt.

TC

[Jeffrey Tu]

tintinet wrote:
> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote:
>
>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>>
>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>
> At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.

25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And
he had a history of heart disease and high blood pressure.
Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem
to be a lot. Nine pounds a day?

--Jeff

--
Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's
how we pass the day away, in the merry old land of Oz.

[Robert Klu]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

>tintinet wrote:
>> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote:
>>
>>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>>>
>>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>>
>> At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
>
>25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And
>he had a history of heart disease and high blood pressure.
>Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does seem
>to be a lot. Nine pounds a day?

7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than 5
oz. per hour.

[Tcomeau]

gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
news:<3da4c6e5.0402121040.3334d78b@posting.google.com>...
> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message
> news:<b550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
> >
> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
> >
> > Interesting quote:
> > ------------------------
> > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic
> > Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us a diet
> > that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never
> > recommended it before this, and I certainly wouldn't start
> > anybody on it now.''
> > -----------------------
> >
> > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
> >
> > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the
> > American Dietetic Association; Associate Professor of
> > Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx,
> > NY. Scientific advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded
> > through the International Food Information Council
> > Foundation (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods Corporation,
> > H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company, Kellogg Company,
> > Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA, McDonald's, the National
> > Confectioners Association, Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo.,
> > Sara Lee Corporation, and the Snack Food Association.
> > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed
> > 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory board for the
> > American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
> > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed
> > 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in an
> > article on weight-loss strategies. (http://www.ballyfitne-
> > ss.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleDyn.as-
> > p?article=16; accessed 11/12
> >
> > The vultures are circling.....
> >
> > TC
>
> TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover
> these connections. Keep up the good work and thank you for
> keeping us so well informed.
>
> --Hua Kul huaREMOVEkul@hotmail.com

Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these
"scientists". I've almost at the point where I'm going to
start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do that
I might as well carry it thru to a book. Expose all these
greedy bastards.

TC

[Moosh:)]

On 12 Feb 2004 18:31:51 -0800, tunderbar@hotmail.com
(tcomeau) posted:

>gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
>news:<3da4c6e5.0402121040.3334d78b@posting.google.com>...
>> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message
>> news:<b550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
>> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>> >
>> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>> >
>> > Interesting quote:
>> > ------------------------
>> > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic
>> > Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us a diet
>> > that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never
>> > recommended it before this, and I certainly wouldn't
>> > start anybody on it now.''
>> > -----------------------
>> >
>> > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
>> >
>> > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the
>> > American Dietetic Association; Associate Professor of
>> > Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx,
>> > NY. Scientific advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded
>> > through the International Food Information Council
>> > Foundation (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods
>> > Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company,
>> > Kellogg Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA,
>> > McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association,
>> > Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and the
>> > Snack Food Association.
>> > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html; accessed
>> > 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory board for the
>> > American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
>> > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed
>> > 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in
>> > an article on weight-loss strategies. (http://www.ballyf-
>> > itness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/articleD-
>> > yn.asp?article=16; accessed 11/12
>> >
>> > The vultures are circling.....
>> >
>> > TC
>>
>> TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover
>> these connections. Keep up the good work and thank you for
>> keeping us so well informed.
>>
>> --Hua Kul huaREMOVEkul@hotmail.com
>
>Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these
>"scientists". I've almost at the point where I'm going to
>start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do
>that I might as well carry it thru to a book. Expose all
>these greedy bastards.

I hope you have deep pockets for all the defamation suits.
Conflicts of interest are no problem if they are declared, and
still no problem if they are not, just suspicious. You must
show illegal or immoral activites, of which so far you have
shown none. In fact, I'd be worried if I'd written what you
already have. Just takes someone to see and tell the person
you are maligning, and you could be for the chop. Good luck :)

Moosh:)

[Larry Hoov]

"Jeffrey Turner" <jturner@localnet.com> wrote in message
news:102o12r9c1sibee@corp.supernews.com...
> tintinet wrote:
> > tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote:
> >
> >>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
> >>
> >>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
> >
> > At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
>
> 25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And
> he had a history of heart disease and high blood pressure.
> Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does
> seem to be a lot. Nine pounds a day?
>
> --Jeff

It's tough to find the data when the media are intent on
maintaining the scandalous nature of a story, but the good
doctor was admitted to hospital at 195 lbs., just after his
fall. And, because of a pre-existing virus-mediated heart
condition, he already retained water. He was an older man.
Give the guy a break. He didn't die of a heart attack or a
stroke. He had a virus that damaged his heart, and he fell and
hit his head.

[Tcomeau]

"Moosh:)" <spam@less.ever> wrote in message
news:<u84p205bljqvqoitojm3cgaoa0pkgk0tmq@4ax.com>...
> On 12 Feb 2004 18:31:51 -0800, tunderbar@hotmail.com
> (tcomeau) posted:
>
> >gmp@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
> >news:<3da4c6e5.0402121040.3334d78b@posting.google.com>...
> >> tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote in message news:<b-
> >> 550f406.0402110734.23fec41f@posting.google.com>...
> >> > Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
> >> >
> >> > http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
> >> >
> >> > Interesting quote:
> >> > ------------------------
> >> > Keith Ayoob, a spokesman for the American Dietetic
> >> > Association, said the diet doctor ''spoon-fed us a diet
> >> > that's high in saturated fat for a long time. I never
> >> > recommended it before this, and I certainly wouldn't
> >> > start anybody on it now.''
> >> > -----------------------
> >> >
> >> > Who is this guy attacking the atkins diet?
> >> >
> >> > Keith Ayoob, Ed.D., R.D., F.A.D.A., Spokesman for the
> >> > American Dietetic Association; Associate Professor of
> >> > Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx,
> >> > NY. Scientific advisor to Kidnetic.com, which is funded
> >> > through the International Food Information Council
> >> > Foundation (IFIC) by Coca-Cola, Hershey Foods
> >> > Corporation, H.J. Heinz Foundation, Keebler Company,
> >> > Kellogg Company, Kraft Foods, Masterfoods USA,
> >> > McDonald's, the National Confectioners Association,
> >> > Procter & Gamble, PepsiCo., Sara Lee Corporation, and
> >> > the Snack Food Association.
> >> > (http://www.kidnetic.com/home/kidneticinfo.html;
> >> > accessed 11/12/03) Member of the expert advisory board
> >> > for the American Council for Fitness and Nutrition.
> >> > (http://www.acfn.org/about/advisory.html; accessed
> >> > 11/12/03) Referenced as a Bally Total Fitness expert in
> >> > an article on weight-loss strategies. (http://www.ball-
> >> > yfitness.com/rapid_results/expert_advice/articles/arti-
> >> > cleDyn.asp?article=16; accessed 11/12
> >> >
> >> > The vultures are circling.....
> >> >
> >> > TC
> >>
> >> TC, I am impressed at your continual efforts to uncover
> >> these connections. Keep up the good work and thank you
> >> for keeping us so well informed.
> >>
> >> --Hua Kul huaREMOVEkul@hotmail.com
> >
> >Thanks Hua. I'm getting more and more po'd at these
> >"scientists". I've almost at the point where I'm going to
> >start documenting this crap and create a website. If I do
> >that I might as well carry it thru to a book. Expose all
> >these greedy bastards.
>
> I hope you have deep pockets for all the defamation suits.

Opinions and statements of fact are not defamation. The
onus would be on them to disprove it, that would be
interestin to see.

Conflicts
> of interest are no problem if they are declared, and still
> no problem if they are not, just suspicious. You must show
> illegal or immoral activites, of which so far you have
> shown none.

I am not claiming that any illegal activities are occurring,
just greedy immoral crap. And showing immoral activities is
simple to do, just look at their public statements and their
personal and financial interests. Although immorality is
subjective I beleive most people will agree with me.

> In fact, I'd be worried if I'd written what you already
> have. Just takes someone to see and tell the person you are
> maligning, and you could be for the chop. Good luck :)
>
> Moosh:)

I'm still waiting for legal threats to appear. I would just
love for them to come after me legally. Now that would garner
some interesting headlines. Talk about exposure in the media.

TC

[Jeffrey Tu]

Robert Klute wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
> <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
>>tintinet wrote:
>>>tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>>>>
>>>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>>>
>>>At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
>>
>>25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards. And
>>he had a history of heart disease and high blood pressure.
>>Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine days does
>>seem to be a lot. Nine pounds a day?
>
>
> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less than
> 5 oz. per hour.

Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids.
It's gotta be a physical impossibility. Maybe if his name
were Zeppelin.

--Jeff

--
Ho, ho, ho, hee, hee, hee and a couple of ha, ha, has; That's
how we pass the day away, in the merry old land of Oz.

[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40
-0500, Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

>Robert Klute wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:55:19 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
>> <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
>>>tintinet wrote:
>>>>tunderbar@hotmail.com (tcomeau) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Atkins Wasn't Obese, Hospital File Shows
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=106&sid=169199
>>>>
>>>>At 6' 195 lbs. he was merely overweight.
>>>
>>>25 lbs. overweight according to global and US standards.
>>>And he had a history of heart disease and high blood
>>>pressure. Sixty-three pounds of liquid retention in nine
>>>days does seem to be a lot. Nine pounds a day?
>>
>>
>> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less
>> than 5 oz. per hour.
>
>Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids.
>It's gotta be a physical impossibility. Maybe if his name
>were Zeppelin.
>
>--Jeff

G'day G'day Jeff,

>Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids.
>It's gotta be a physical impossibility. Maybe if his name
>were Zeppelin.

While I understand the point you are making and think it is
a point worth pursuing, it may be worth mentioning that
healthy people retain far more then one-third of their body
weight in fluids.

http://www.healthkeeper.com/HealthKeeperBody_Fat_Percentages.-
htm

"When in ideal shape, body fat will make up about 15% - 18% of
a male's body weight and 18% - 22% of a female's. The
remainder of the body's weight is composed of water (55%-60%),
muscle and other lean tissue (10%-20%), and bone and minerals
(6%-8%). In other words, a 150-pound woman who is within or
close to her ideal body fat composition range at 22% will have
approximately 33 pounds of fat, 86 pounds of weight composed
primarily of water, 20 pounds of muscle and other lean tissue,
and 11 pounds of bone and mineral weight. This total then
makes up her total weight of 150 lbs."

As I understand it Atkins was in a coma, he was on an iv so
had no control of how much fluid was administered to him. He
had organ failure. I think one would have to talk to a doctor
or nurse with intensive care experience to know what is
possible and what is not in such circumstances. The reports of
195 at admission and 258 at death have been circulating for a
while and no intensive care physician has stepped forward and
said "That is impossible. At least one of the quoted weights
must be wrong." The story as it has unfolded has been
newsworthy and yet no reporter has found a medical person to
come forth and make such a statement. On the other hand no
reporter has found some independent intensive care specialist
to step forward and say something like "Yes it does seem weird
but since 2000 we have had 7 such cases in the greater BLAH,
BLAH, BLAH area."

Perhaps tomorrow they will.

Till then we can but wonder where the truth lies.

Best wishes,

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[Robert Klu]

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
<jturner@localnet.com> wrote:

>> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less
>> than 5 oz. per hour.
>
>Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in fluids.
>It's gotta be a physical impossibility. Maybe if his name
>were Zeppelin.

In a coma fluid retention is common. If you stop producing
urine because your bp is too low, you will retain fluids.

The rate is about 120 - 140 ml/hr of IV drip. A single IV is
normally set to 70+/-10 mls/hr (but can be higher), so the the
rate is consistent with a double IV feed.

[September]

Robert Klute <news@klute.us> wrote in message
news:<q8us20dkduoqcpbc6ti44akq5hekl66ut7@4ax.com>...
> On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 22:32:40 -0500, Jeffrey Turner
> <jturner@localnet.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> 7 lbs a day, or about 14 cups of water per day, or less
> >> than 5 oz. per hour.
> >
> >Nobody could retain one-third of their body weight in
> >fluids. It's gotta be a physical impossibility. Maybe if
> >his name were Zeppelin.
>
> In a coma fluid retention is common. If you stop producing
> urine because your bp is too low, you will retain fluids.
>
> The rate is about 120 - 140 ml/hr of IV drip. A single IV is
> normally set to 70+/-10 mls/hr (but can be higher), so the
> the rate is consistent with a double IV feed.

You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your
opinion on this:

~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed
water on the fluid explanation, telling Fox News's Greta van
Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be
explained by treatment in a hospital. He had brain
hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture,
had an epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment
for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as
possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid
would be very harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt
trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~

From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?

TIA!

[Robert Klu]

On 15 Feb 2004 19:11:10 -0800, HBrook67@aol.com
(September) wrote:

>
>You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your
>opinion on this:
>
I don't claim to be knowledgeable. I am just a
mathematician. I only know what I have gleaned from talking
to people and doing a small amount of research. So my
posting was only to put the numbers in a different
perspective - that of whether it was physically possible,
not whether it was probable or actual.

>~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed
>water on the fluid explanation, telling Fox News's Greta van
>Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be
>explained by treatment in a hospital. He had brain
>hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture,
>had an epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment
>for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as
>possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid
>would be very harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt
>trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~
>
>From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html

Fumento is not exactly an unbiased source, nor is his
article 'the whole truth'. He is a long time critic of the
Atkins diet.

>Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?

Michael Baden is a respected pathologist and should know what
he is talking about. Certainly I would give his swag on what
little information has been released is a lot more credible
than almost anyone else, particulary anything I might
postulate. Now, if you read the actual partial transcript - as
opposed to Fumento's redacted version - you get a slightly
different slant.

Here is the URL for the story
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111268,00.html

I have pulled Baden's comments. You see that Sustern and Baden
are talking about the accuracy of the WSJ and USA Today
articles and why they might be wrong. Neither has seen the
medical reports being discussed. You see he discusses several
reasons for what he sees as a discrepency. That the admittance
weight was based on faulty information or that the recorded
death weight may be wrong. Later on Baden admits his wife is
on the Atkins diet.

Also, he says they shouldn't have loaded Atkins with fluids,
not that they didn't. Without having access to the hospital's
medical charts and the actual medical examiner's report, there
is no way Dr. Baden (or anyone outside the hospital) knows
exactly what happened.

The '...' is Sustern's commentary and questions, but as I
said: read it yourself.

"As far as weight goes -- a body is weighed after death on a
metal scale that may weigh 30 pounds or 20 pounds placed on a
large scale. Sometimes the morgue attendant, the person who
weighs the body, may forget to subtract the weight of the
scale and the clothing on the body so larger weights may be
recorded than is actually true.

But, in this instance, I don't think the 60-pound difference
can be explained by treatment in a hospital. He had brain
hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture, had
an epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment for
that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as possible.

By loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very
harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt trauma that Dr.
Atkins had. So I think there's a real discrepancy.

...

Yes. Well, supposedly, there was no autopsy, which is also
part of the problem. But either the wife is incorrect at 190
pounds or the weight is incorrect. I don't think it can be
accounted for by treatment in the hospital because of the
nature of the condition he had.

...

I know so many people -- my wife is on the Atkins diet -- that
lose weight on the Atkins...

...

And I know so many people who have lost weight on the Atkins
diet. I mean diet is kind of a mystery, and there are so many
opposing diets, and it seems to work for a lot of people, and
you can't argue with success.

[September]

Robert Klute <robert_klute_removethis@hp.com> wrote in message
news:<ddu03050gs14811avljlrhf3eiakv0ge99@4ax.com>...
> On 15 Feb 2004 19:11:10 -0800, HBrook67@aol.com
> (September) wrote:
>
>
> >
> >You seem knowledgeable in this area, so I'd like your
> >opinion on this:
> >
> I don't claim to be knowledgeable. I am just a
> mathematician. I only know what I have gleaned from talking
> to people and doing a small amount of research. So my
> posting was only to put the numbers in a different
> perspective - that of whether it was physically possible,
> not whether it was probable or actual.
>
> >~New York Forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden splashed
> >water on the fluid explanation, telling Fox News's Greta
> >van Sustern "I don't think the 60-pound difference can be
> >explained by treatment in a hospital. He had brain
> >hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture,
> >had an epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment
> >for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as
> >possible. By (sic) loading up somebody with a lot of fluid
> >would be very harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt
> >trauma that Dr. Atkins had."~
> >
> >From: http://www.fumento.com/fat/atkinsrip.html
>
> Fumento is not exactly an unbiased source, nor is his
> article 'the whole truth'. He is a long time critic of the
> Atkins diet.
>
> >Is there any truth to what Michael Baden said?
>
> Michael Baden is a respected pathologist and should know
> what he is talking about. Certainly I would give his swag on
> what little information has been released is a lot more
> credible than almost anyone else, particulary anything I
> might postulate. Now, if you read the actual partial
> transcript - as opposed to Fumento's redacted version - you
> get a slightly different slant.
>
> Here is the URL for the story
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,111268,00.html
>
> I have pulled Baden's comments. You see that Sustern and
> Baden are talking about the accuracy of the WSJ and USA
> Today articles and why they might be wrong. Neither has seen
> the medical reports being discussed. You see he discusses
> several reasons for what he sees as a discrepency. That the
> admittance weight was based on faulty information or that
> the recorded death weight may be wrong. Later on Baden
> admits his wife is on the Atkins diet.
>
> Also, he says they shouldn't have loaded Atkins with fluids,
> not that they didn't. Without having access to the
> hospital's medical charts and the actual medical examiner's
> report, there is no way Dr. Baden (or anyone outside the
> hospital) knows exactly what happened.
>
>
> The '...' is Sustern's commentary and questions, but as I
> said: read it yourself.
>
> "As far as weight goes -- a body is weighed after death on a
> metal scale that may weigh 30 pounds or 20 pounds placed on
> a large scale. Sometimes the morgue attendant, the person
> who weighs the body, may forget to subtract the weight of
> the scale and the clothing on the body so larger weights may
> be recorded than is actually true.
>
> But, in this instance, I don't think the 60-pound difference
> can be explained by treatment in a hospital. He had brain
> hemorrhage. He died because he fell, had a skull fracture,
> had an epidural hemorrhage around the brain. The treatment
> for that is to take as much fluid away from the brain as
> possible.
>
> By loading up somebody with a lot of fluid would be very
> harmful to somebody with the kind of blunt trauma that Dr.
> Atkins had. So I think there's a real discrepancy.
>
> ...
>
> Yes. Well, supposedly, there was no autopsy, which is also
> part of the problem. But either the wife is incorrect at 190
> pounds or the weight is incorrect. I don't think it can be
> accounted for by treatment in the hospital because of the
> nature of the condition he had.
>
> ...
>
> I know so many people -- my wife is on the Atkins diet --
> that lose weight on the Atkins...
>
> ...
>
> And I know so many people who have lost weight on the Atkins
> diet. I mean diet is kind of a mystery, and there are so
> many opposing diets, and it seems to work for a lot of
> people, and you can't argue with success.

Thanks for your comments and the URL. They are very
informative and much appreciated :)