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RCFletcher
Wed, Feb-11-04, 02:59
This is a general and interesting article which explains how ketosis works. the bit which alarmed me was about drinking if in ketosis. It also explains why people appear to get drunk quicker - it seems they're not drunk but their brains are short of fuel!

If the moderators would like to move this post please do. I thought it was of such general interest that it should be here.

Enjoy!

http://www.sun.ac.za/med_physbio/med_physiology/dept/ketosis.htm

DO NOT DRINK ALCOHOL IF YOU ARE KETOTIC!

Alcohol is a powerful inhibitor of gluconeogenesis. In fact, it forces part of the gluconeogenic metabolic process into reverse. This means that if all the glucose in the blood is being derived from gluconeogenesis then the consumption of alcohol will inevitably cause the blood glucose level to fall. Worse still, the alcohol also stops ketone body production, thus leaving the brain entirely without fuel.

A person who is ketotic is 100% reliant on gluconeogenesis to maintain adequate levels of glucose in the blood. If, under these circumstances alcohol is taken, the person will become disorientated and might lose consciousness, not just from the alcohol, but from low blood sugar. Needless to say, this could be very dangerous, and even fatal.

Alcohol does not have these effects if the glycogen stores in the liver are normal. Under these circumstances the blood glucose level in the blood is maintained by the breakdown of liver glycogen, a process that is not influenced by alcohol. If a person becomes confused under these circumstances it is due simply to the pharmacological effects of the alcohol!

kimberlyw
Wed, Feb-11-04, 04:59
OK - but there's a difference between slamming down shots of vodka and having a glass or two of wine.

I mean - I personally have never noticed a difference - but then I don't drink much.

Thanks for the article :D
~Kimberly

BigJ
Wed, Feb-11-04, 07:08
Ehh.. It just means I'm a cheaper drunk. Getting loaded is hard on the brain cells no matter what :)

Thanks for the article though!

Wenzday
Wed, Feb-11-04, 07:15
SCAREY!!!!!!!!!! I was always concerned about the effects of ANYTHING extra besides ketosis on my body... I felt so paranoid about it ALL the time actually... have had too many lectures against it perhaps. I cant see how it could really be so dangerous to be into it though or wouldnt there be huge warnings and a million books being pulled from shelves of stores? ah yea... Even Atkins mentions ppl who did induction for years...I am sure it must be alright then. I am jsut a paranoid person sometimes.

Judi B.
Wed, Feb-11-04, 08:22
When my friend Julie and I were in ketosis and got hammered one night we coined the phrase "Ketosis Katastrophe!" It was a catastrope! Thank goodness my darling boyfriend was there to rescue us from making total idiots out of ourselves.
We were drinking vodka and soda/rum and diet coke and were fine till all of a sudden-WHAM!!!!- we were toast!
Never did that again-in public anyway! :-)
Judi

Kristine
Wed, Feb-11-04, 09:10
I think that article is exaggerating a bit - you'd have to drink a LOT of alcohol to get that bad. But it's true, you really have to be aware of your blood sugar when you're drinking. It's best to have some food with your alcohol, and don't overdo it.

ballewja
Mon, Feb-16-04, 17:27
OMG! This happened to me on Saturday night! I had a few LC margaritas and every time I tried to stand up after that I kept blacking out and had to lay down again. It was really freaky! I was wondering what the deal was cause I only had about a shot's worth of alcohol. Never doing that again...

CherylAust
Tue, Feb-17-04, 04:57
I suppose this has different effects on different people, who would have thought to blame ketosis? For someone who has a drink or 2 most days it would have a different effect to someone like me who has drink or 2 , 2 or 3 times a year. I'd probably be toast after the 1st.

Alopex
Tue, Feb-17-04, 10:34
I do find that ketosis makes me a cheaper drunk, which is great in my case, because otherwise I'm spending $50 ($20 at home) for a buzz.

But the strange thing is lately (and I don't drink frequently, usually once a month) I can tolerate some alcohols more than others. For instance, even in ketosis, I feel almost nothing from 6 shots of vodka or rum, but a few sips of whisky and I'm on my way (woohoo! :lol:)! Has anyone had similar experiences? Is it possibly ketosis related? Is whisky somehow different from other alcohols?

black57
Tue, Feb-17-04, 20:53
SCAREY!!!!!!!!!! I was always concerned about the effects of ANYTHING extra besides ketosis on my body... I felt so paranoid about it ALL the time actually... have had too many lectures against it perhaps. I cant see how it could really be so dangerous to be into it though or wouldnt there be huge warnings and a million books being pulled from shelves of stores? ah yea... Even Atkins mentions ppl who did induction for years...I am sure it must be alright then. I am jsut a paranoid person sometimes.


Ketosis is just as natural as menstruation. You do not HAVE to be eating a lc woe to experience ketosis. All you have to do is burn fat. Ketones are the harmless by-products of burning unwanted fat. Athletes experience ketosis on a regular basis and they probably don't even realize it because it is not acknowledged. California's new governor has, no doubt, spent many hours in ketosis. I have total recall :rolleyes: of having that metallic taste in my mouth many times...long before doing Atkins. I now assume that I was in ketosis at that time. Therefore, ketosis is a safe body process that, probably, everyone has experienced at some point in their lives.

RCFletcher
Wed, Feb-18-04, 02:00
There is nothing wrong or unnatural about ketosis. The reason I posted the article was to warn about alcohol. Let's be honest, if you drink booze the ketosis - i.e. the 'harmless burning of fats' stops dead and the buring of alcohol takes over - that is the problem.

doreen T
Wed, Feb-18-04, 08:14
re - http://www.sun.ac.za/med_physbio/med_physiology/dept/ketosis.htm

With all due respect to the author of the original text .. the information on that page is dealing specifically with post-exercise ketosis (induced by long-distance running then fasting for an additional 6 hrs), when stores of liver glycogen have been depleted and no nutrition is consumed except alcohol. There's a big difference from benign dietary ketosis (BDK) where liver glycogen has been maintained through adequate dietary intake.

Yes, alcohol inhibits gluconeogenesis in the liver .. but not 100%, as Prof. Koeslag states. A 1998 study from Berkley (http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/hellerstein-lab/pdfs/ajpsiler.pdf) showed that consuming alcohol after a 12-hr fast reduced liver gluconeogenesis by 45%, as compared to the control subjects who also fasted but consumed no alcohol. In addition ... although the subjects consumed the alcohol fairly quickly (one fl. oz (30 ml) vodka in a sugar-free beverage every 30 minutes x 4) .. their blood sugar levels did not drop significantly.

Severe alcoholic hypoglycemia in the average person usually doesn't happen unless large amounts of alcohol are consumed quickly, on an empty stomach .. and typically there is some liver disease present as well.
Worse still, the alcohol also stops ketone body production, thus leaving the brain entirely without fuel. This is erroneous. Alcohol does not stop ketone production; in fact ketones are a by-product of alcohol metabolism. The process to make ketones from alcohol (specifically acetoacetate) is simpler than making them from fatty acids .. thus the liver will use the alcohol first in preference. Thus, fat-burning will be delayed as long as there's alcohol in the system, but it will not stop ketone production.

The best advice to be gleaned from this article is ... NEVER drink alcohol after long-distance running or cycling followed by a long period of fasting :) .. For the average Joe and Josephine LowCarber ... make sure you're eating adequate protein and don't skip meals. If you're going to be drinking, eat some protein before and during. And stay well-hydrated ... alternate alcoholic drinks with a glass of water or sparkling water, or make spritzers.

And as always, moderation is key.


Doreen

yvonne326
Wed, Feb-18-04, 08:28
I drink, socially, once a week and the only problems when in ketosis:

a. Yes, you get wasted quicker in the beginning...I now can hold my own as I did before LCing...but in the beginning I'd get drunk on 2 drinks.

b. You get more dehydrated than usual; the next day man will experience a weight loss but this is 100% water and with dehydration comes hangover symptoms.

c. Ketosis does suspend thus this will set you back a day or two in your weight loss (true, fat, loss). So basically the more you drink...the slower your loss most likely will be...especially if you are less than 30 lbs to your goal.


So I agree...if you can, drink less or not at all....especially if you are a slow-loser.