Medical examiner says that Dr. Atkins was obese

[fluffybear]

Here is a link to an article by the NYC medical examiner who says that Dr. Atkins was obese and had heart failure.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040210/ap_on_he_me/atkins_medical_report

[Aragorn]

Article from Boston.com

NEW YORK -- Dr. Robert Atkins, whose popular diet stresses protein-rich meat and cheese over carbohydrates,
weighed 258 pounds at his death and had a history of heart disease, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Read the entire Story here (http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/diseases/articles/2004/02/10/report_diet_doctor_atkins_was_obese_suffered_heart_disease_medical_examiner_report_says/)

[mrfreddy]

"The medical examiner's report was given to the Journal by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a group that advocates vegetarianism. The medical examiner's office told the Journal that the report had been sent to the group in error. "

those PCRM folks really have no shame, not to mention ethics.

[LadyBelle]

Okkk.... As I remember he was a scrawny little guy in his older age.

The medical examiner's report was given to the Journal by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a group that advocates vegetarianism. The medical examiner's office told the Journal that the report had been sent to the group in error.


Come on, any journalist that had even an ounce of integraty would research the facts when handed an Anti Atkins sheet by a vegetarian group, and I seriously doubt the medical examiners office would say, oops oh well. Thisis something I'd more expect to see in the national enquirer then the boston globe.

[Klodo2]

Ahhh... so that's what the article by Veronica Atkins (http://atkins.com/about/recentnews/wsjresponse.html)on Atkins.com was about.

[Kristine]

That's just plain sick. PCRM must be getting pretty desperate. He was in his 70s, fer cryin' out loud. There's no diet that stops the aging process.

[Fumih_81]

we are living examples of how Atkins improved our lives...need to say more?

[Oldcoyote]

Disturbing. I hope it turns out not to be true, even if it was a medical condition.

In any event, the diet does work for me.

[odyssey]

I wish they would let this man rest in peace.

[SisterT]

That's just plain sick. PCRM must be getting pretty desperate. He was in his 70s, fer cryin' out loud. There's no diet that stops the aging process.

Exactly! Did Dr. Atkins promise to stop aging and death in its tracks? How shameful it is that they would speak about a dead man who cannot defend himself! Thankfully, Mrs. Atkins has spoken up. Did these monsters even consider that she may still be grieving? Disgusting people! Their "animal-free" agenda is the only thing that matters to these vegan-nazis!!! :mad: GRRRR!!!

Okay! I'm calm now!

[delilah]

There's a response by Veronica Atkins, the widow, on the Atkins website. Linkie here (http://atkins.com/about/recentnews/wsjresponse.html)

Statement by Veronica Atkins on the illegal distribution of personal medical information regarding her late husband Dr. Robert C. Atkins

I have always assumed that my husband’s personal medical history is private and of no concern or relevance to the media or general public. Prior to today, I have not seen any reason to share Dr. Atkins’ private information with the public. I am sure that any one of you would be offended and perhaps even horrified to have complete strangers intrude into your personal family matters, especially with regard to something as intimate as your medical records or those of your loved-one.

It has now become clear to me that if I don’t speak out, unscrupulous individuals will continue to twist and pervert the truth in an attempt to destroy the reputation and great work of my late husband. These individuals have gone so far as to obtain my husband’s personal and confidential medical information from the New York City Medical Examiner’s office for distribution to news organizations in direct and knowing violation of federal law. Obviously such people will have no trouble picking and choosing bits and pieces of fact and supposition to mislead the world.

But here is the truth: my husband’s medical records have been reviewed by knowledgeable doctors and his medical condition discussed with cardiac specialists. It is clear that Dr. Atkins developed a condition called cardiomyopathy approximately three years prior to his death. It is also true that when Robert developed cardiomyopathy his coronary arteries showed only minimal and clinically insignificant signs of coronary artery disease, consistent with what would be expected in a 69-year old man. Cardiomyopathy is a serious and progressive condition and was, I have been told, in Robert’s case, caused by a viral infection. Though this condition significantly weakened his heart, its cause was clearly related to an infection and not his diet.

All of this was well documented and openly discussed by Robert himself on national television. Additionally, as Dr. Atkins explained on Larry King Live and other public appearances, he did have a witnessed cardiac arrest in April of 2002. All accounts and records related to this event, and the insight of his treating cardiologist, are consistent with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, rather than a lack of blood flow. While Robert did have some progression of his coronary artery disease in the last three years of his life including some new blockage of a secondary artery that was remedied during this admission, he did not have a heart attack.

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise and for any physician to suggest so would be irresponsible, unethical and represent nothing more than an attempt to tarnish the reputation of a man who dedicated his life to solving one of medicines greatest challenges – the obesity epidemic. Let me state emphatically that I have been assured by my husband’s physicians that my husband’s health problems late in life were completely unrelated to his diet or any diet.

It is also clear that my husband’s death resulted from a serious head injury that occurred April 8th, 2003. Hospital records obviously and unequivocally detail the unfortunate clinical course that transpired following arrival of Emergency Medical Services through the entirety of hospitalization, confirming that after losing consciousness en route to the hospital, Robert’s condition failed to improve despite emergency neurosurgical treatment for bleeding within his head. In life, Dr. Atkins was adamant about not wanting life support and when his wishes were honored, and ventilator life support was withdrawn on April 17th, he passed away as has been widely reported in the media.

But it has become clear to me that something as simple as the truth will be perverted and manipulated by dishonest individuals who will stop at nothing and will proceed without any regard for medical ethics or the previously private medical history of Dr. Atkins in an attempt not only to discredit my husband’s work but to profit from his death. Work, I might add, that has been consistently and repeatedly vindicated by 18 independent scientific studies over these past three years. I now find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to relive his horrific accident and defend my late husband from people who would convince you that stolen and irrelevant bits and pieces of Dr. Atkins’ medical history carry more validity than published scientically controlled and peer reviewed research out of Harvard, Duke University, the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health.

It is for these reasons that I realized that I must put aside my grief and pain and speak out. Make no mistake about it, Dr. Atkins, at the end of life, was struggling with the effects of his cardiomyopathy and did not hide that fact. Despite repeated, often pathetic and now even illegal attempts by his most bizarre and extreme detractors to make the health of this 72 year old man THE central issue in the all important obesity debate raging in this country and around the world, it is not and never will be relevant. It is a sad and distracting sideshow, taking time away from an intelligent debate of the known science.

We should all ask, is caring about what someone else eats so important that some Doctors are willing to betray their most basic of oaths, to protect a patient’s dignity and confidentiality? It is time to forget the myths and urban legends perpetuated by extremists like those who acted unethically in disclosing my husband’s records and pay more attention to the real issues and all available peer reviewed science.

I will do my utmost to put an end to this nonsense so that responsible physicians can focus on a debate rooted in fact and moderation and objectivity. We will not engage in espionage, tabloid journalism, or try to shout louder than these shameless individuals and I look forward to the day when Dr. Atkins’ soul can rest in peace and I can grieve uninterrupted.

[Paleoanth]

There was a thing just now on MSNBC about it. He wasn't obese-his heart condition (caused by a virus) made him retain fluid. That is the reason his weight went up.

However, the "expert" they had on there said that the Atkins diet could contribute to his heart condition. Putz.

[pd Rydia]

Thank you for that link and transcript, Delilah.

[Moonwalker]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/02/10/atkins.widow.ap/index.html

[Samuel]

Judging Dr. Atkins by all the pictures I have seen for him, he has never been obese. If I assume that his weight was truely 258 lbs at the time of his death, I could only find two explanations:

(1) Dr. Atkins has neglected his diet in his last year and nobody has seen his picture during that time. This assumption is hard for me to believe in.

(2) Atkins diet causes people to constantly replace fat tissues with muscles, so they keep getting heavier wthout looking obese. I can see that such a change is happening to me except that I have been on this diet for less than a year. Dr. Atkins has been on the diet for 30 years.

[OHGal1415]

How about this explanation?
Trager said the weight was added between his accident and his death, and in fact Atkins weighed less than 200 pounds at the time he was injured.

"During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds," the doctor said in a written statement. "How and why the Journal reported that he was obese, remains the only unanswered question in this pathetic situation."

[kevins7189]

aaah the fark idiots are at it again

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=828072

[tamarian]

Reactions and official statements from Mrs. Atkins and Dr. Trager posted here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=165899

Wa'il

[Samuel]

Thanks. This makes sense now. I didn't read this article. I only read the one on CNN which did not include this part.

[doreen T]

Trager said the weight was added between his accident and his death, and in fact Atkins weighed less than 200 pounds at the time he was injured.

"During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds," the doctor said in a written statement. "How and why the Journal reported that he was obese, remains the only unanswered question in this pathetic situation."

Having worked for many years in ER and ICU (including Neurosurgical & Head Trauma), I can vouch for the fact that incredible amounts of fluid are administered during resuscitation efforts, and during ongoing treatment after initial stabilization.

With a severe head injury, such as Dr. Atkins sustained, the parts of the brain normally responsible for controlling blood pressure do not work appropriately .. and sometimes do not work at all. In these cases, fluids and volume-expanders must be administered to ensure adequate blood flow to the vital organs .. kidneys, heart .. and to the brain itself. The usual drugs given to increase blood pressure simply do not work in this situation.


Doreen

[mrfreddy]

one can only hope that the PCRM have finally taken one step too far and they'll get burned by the backlash for this obviously shamefull and pathetic publicity stunt.

[tamarian]

one can only hope that the PCRM have finally taken one step too far and they'll get burned by the backlash for this obviously shamefull and pathetic publicity stunt.

I hope so, but I doubt it. Unfortunately there are many idiots, like Mayor Bloomberg, who will not look at the facts, and follow the one-liners and the smoke generated by the PCRM tactics.

Wa'il

[OHGal1415]

one can only hope that the PCRM have finally taken one step too far and they'll get burned by the backlash for this obviously shamefull and pathetic publicity stunt.

I hope Mrs. A. and the Atkins Center SUES and BANKRUPTS them.

[Angeline]

What amazes me is that after all the PCRM has done: The slander campaigns, the lies, the outright distortions, the close ties with extremist vegan groups, the fact that they are neither pysicians nor responsible (in fact they are downright irresponsible)..... they still get press as if they are a legitimate organization.

This is a sad but telling example of just how little we can trust the media. They are like parrots, repeating everything they hear without understanding any of it. They never seem to check anything at all.

We, on this forum, happen to know about the PCRM. But it makes you wonder how much of what you hear on the news is also false or distorted or simply serves someone's agenda. It makes me want to stop watching and reading the news.

[bonesigh]

Many organizations will "accidentally" leak information to the media in order to further their own agenda. Another favorite tactic is to tell only part of the story; of course, the part of the story that they want you to hear, instead of all of the facts. It's a distortion and twisting of facts. Unfortunately, this is commonplace these days. Fortunately, the internet can be a great source of alternate media which is worth checking into.

-Mike

[toning_up]

What sickos these people preying on him are. What pain for his widow..

Cardiomyopathy is not a disease brought about by lifestyle. Any person of any age can develop it and the ultimate treatment is unfortunately, heart transplant.

Sure it's a "heart disease" but not "heart disease" as the term is commonly used in Western society.

[Imber]

How interesting. I saw a "front page" article from AP on cnn.com about the Wall Street Journal article. It DID say that it was the Wall Street Journal that was reporting it, but the article gave the Journal credibility in the way it was reported, rephrased, repeated. In essense, AP and cnn.com were reporting the same news..."Atkins was obese." Now that Mrs. Atkins and Dr. Trager have responded, cnn.com has removed the original article and expanded it to included some of their comments. It now generally offers a more balanced view of the issue. At first, though, they were singing right along with the Wall Street Journal.

[jnkerr]

I second that, doreen.

I work in a cancer research facility and it is AMAZING how much water a person can retain in sickness. Ghastly amazing.

[Lisa N]

Frankly, I hope Mrs. Atkins sues the pants off them for slander and I also hope that the doctor who requested the medical records with no legal right to them and then passed them on to PCRM is sanctioned by the medical board of his state...that was a shameful (and illegal) thing to do and violates at least a couple of Fedaral laws.
How much you wanna bet that the doctor who requested those records is a member of PCRM?
Just goes to show you how low they will stoop (to the point of violating law) to further their agenda.

[hcomeau]

NEW YORK (Feb. 10) - Dr. Robert Atkins, whose popular diet stresses protein-rich meat and cheese over carbohydrates, weighed 258 pounds at his death and had a history of heart disease, a newspaper reported Tuesday.

Atkins died last April at age 72 after being injured in a fall on an icy street.

Before his death, he had suffered a heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing a report by the city medical examiner.

At 258 pounds, the 6-foot-tall Atkins would have qualified as obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's body-mass index calculator.
Diet is one potential factor in heart disease, but infections also can contribute to it.

Last month, the diet guru's widow, Veronica Atkins, demanded an apology from Mayor Michael Bloomberg after Bloomberg called her late husband "fat.''

She told the Journal she was outraged that the report had been made public.

"I have been assured by my husband's physicians that my husband's health problems late in life were completely unrelated to his diet or any diet,'' she said.

The medical examiner's report was given to the Journal by the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, a group that advocates vegetarianism.

Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council in New York, told the Journal that Atkins' heart disease stemmed from cardiomyopathy, a condition that was thought to result from a viral infection.

Atkins' weight was due to bloating associated with his condition and the time he spent in a coma after his head injury, and he had been much slimmer during most of his life, Trager said.

In April 2002, a year before he died, Atkins issued a statement saying he was recovering from cardiac arrest related to a heart infection he had suffered from "for a few years.'' He said it was "in no way related to diet.''

On Tuesday, the medical examiner's office would say only that Atkins died of a head injury from the fall.

"I can't comment on people's previous conditions. It's against the law,'' said spokeswoman Ellen Borakove.

Borakove said that, because of family objections to an autopsy, the medical examiner had conducted only "an external exam'' and a review of Atkins' hospital records.

She said a report had been sent to a doctor in Nebraska who requested it, and said he apparently gave it to the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine.

It was later discovered that the doctor was not "the treating physician'' and should not have had access to the report, Borakove said. The medical examiner's office plans to complain to Nebraska health officials, she said.

One of the handwritten comments in the medical examiner's report referred to "MI'' (myocardial infarction, the technical term for heart attack), the newspaper said. Trager said Atkins had no record of having had a heart attack, saying medical histories on examiner's reports are often written by less-experienced doctors who may not know a patient's detailed history.

[scorpio381]

I feel badly for Mrs. Atkins. She just might as well save her breath. No matter how much she defends her poor husband, his health, or his WOE/WOL, the media is still going to be relentless when it comes to how he died. I'll bet Mayor Bloomberg is sitting there going....nah, nah, nah, nah nah...I told you so!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

[ValerieL]

It amazes me that people care so bloody much about discrediting him. There is just no proof anywhere that anyone has been hurt by following his diet, but for some reason they just hate the diet and need to see it stopped. What makes a person care so much about something that doesn't affect them at all? It's insane.

I think the same as the poster above, I feel for Veronica Atkins. The Atkins-haters aren't going to listen to reason, she's wasting her breath on them. Hopefully there are a few open-minded people left that might listen though.

What a shame.

Valerie

[Birddog]

The things nay sayers won't say.

[Turtle2003]

It amazes me that people care so bloody much about discrediting him. There is just no proof anywhere that anyone has been hurt by following his diet, but for some reason they just hate the diet and need to see it stopped. What makes a person care so much about something that doesn't affect them at all? It's insane.

Good heavens! Don't you realize the forces that are alligned against the low carb way of eating? To mention just a few:

1) Multi-million dollar food industries that stand to lose a fortune if people stop eating their junk.

2) Multi-million dollar agricultural corporations - ditto.

3) All those TV networks and newspapers who are owned/controlled by the above interests and their advertising dollars.

4) All those doctors, researchers, dieticians, etc, who have used low fat eating as a cornerstone of their careers.

5) The radical vegetarians, who want us all to stop eating meat, to whom Atkins seems the devil incarnate.

This whole mess about the Atkins medical report was started by the PCRM, which is a front group for PETA. These people infuriate me, because they could do so much good in seeing that animals are treated humanely, but they are more interested in persuing more radical goals - like keeping people from eating eggs or wearing wool.

[Grimalkin]

Not to mention the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry, who stand to lose bigtime when people start controlling their cholesterol and blood glucose through this diet. At the bottom line, a diabetic is a profitable thing to these corporations- he/she's a customer for life.

[JL53563]

I saw Dr. Atkins on T.V. a couple of times only 2-3 weeks before his death last year. He was far from obese. It certainly makes sense to me that the extra weight was from fluid retention resulting from his cardiomyopathy and organ failures due to his coma.

[bonesigh]

Our "wonderful" mayor Bloomberg is a hypocrite, and many of we New York City residents don't appreciate his comments. Here is a link detailing an example of Mike's antics:

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/17602.htm

-Mike

[anthonyofm]

I'm also a bit confused about why people want so much to discredit Atkins. It looks to me as though his overweight may have been caused by his medical problems that preceded his death, but even if he was fat because he was an out-of-control twinkie binger, would that mean that he has not helped thousands of people lose thousands of pounds? Give me a break. And let the poor old guy rest in peace.

The bottom line for me and many others: this WOE seems to be working pretty well. ;-)

Peace! Anthony

[kyrasdad]

even if they correct the story, the damage has been done. That's what these jackals were looking to accomplish. They know everyone reads the headline and no one reads the correction.

[tholian8]

They are appalling. Makes me regret my past vegetarianism, if these are the "representatives" of that WOE.

Disgusting.

Emily

[TWolfSW]

Thanks to all of you for posting links to the facts. I'm also getting pretty sick of the poor job the media is doing in bringing balance to the stories they choose to cover.

Additionally, it seems to me that there may be some possibility of criminal charges related to publishing a person's private medical records.

TTFN.

[alaskaman]

It is interesting that every lowfat quack, Pritikin, Ornish, et al, have been permitted to expound their views without a lot of nay-saying, and certainly without a lot of lies and slander. Frankly, when it comes to PCRM, the word "evil" seems to apply. Bill

[fairchild]

I think that what it is is that when Dr A died, he was the only person they could "study" who has been on the plan for such a long time. I honestly thought they would release the coroners report, which is always public information, and I thought they would be reporting how healthy his heart is, I was suprised to see the MEs report say something else.

[Lisa N]

Frankly, when it comes to PCRM, the word "evil" seems to apply. Bill

I never had a great opinion of this organization to begin with, but this latest stunt of theirs has caused it to drop to an all time low. :thdown:
Slimy, unethical and dishonest are all words that I think accurately describe their tactics. :nono:

Additionally, it seems to me that there may be some possibility of criminal charges related to publishing a person's private medical records.

I sincerely hope so. I have no doubt that's the biggest reason all these news organizations were scrambling to quickly edit their original stories once word got out where the information came from and Mrs. Atkins/Dr. Trager issued their statements.

[Bosco2004]

Sorry, nothing to see here folks. It was a report in the wrong area.

This forum is going to take some getting used to.. IMHO a bit too many forums.

[Angeline]

Don't get mad....get even !

I found this on the Center for Consumer Freedom. It's a petition against the PETA.

Check it out (http://www.consumerfreedom.com/petaPetition.cfm)

[Kristine]

Having worked for many years in ER and ICU (including Neurosurgical & Head Trauma), I can vouch for the fact that incredible amounts of fluid are administered during resuscitation efforts, and during ongoing treatment after initial stabilization.

I'll third that. When we talk about water retention here on the forum, we think of it in terms of a pound or two. Imagine it in terms of *dozens* of pounds, when you're being pumped full of fluids ordered by three different doctors. It sounds impossible... you wouldn't believe it until you've seen it. Some of these patients are so swollen, their wrists and elbows won't even bend. When I'd try to get a blood test from these folks, water would gush out of the needle hole. No doctor would confuse this massive water retention with obesity.

[Imber]

They are appalling. Makes me regret my past vegetarianism, if these are the "representatives" of that WOE.

Disgusting.

Emily


Me, too. :( I really can't believe I was vegetarian for as long as I was. In addition to disagreeing strongly with their tactics, I have come to accept that my vegetarianism made me fat. What a mistake.

[madpiano]

This report last night made me really angry.

So what if he was obese at the time of his death ? Just because he writes the book, doesn't mean he has to follow it ?
Anyway, as everyone said, it was fluid retention.

What amazes me, is the fact, that apparently the owners of Weight Watchers are obese as well. No one makes a report about that.
I wonder how many big-heads at Slim Fast are obese ?

This is just ridiculous. I wonder if the News Agencies are going to release a counter statement tonight.

[Lisa N]

I wonder if the News Agencies are going to release a counter statement tonight.

Doesn't seem to be so. DH was watching Fox news this morning on TV and they were repeating the same things about Dr. Atkins being 258 pounds and obese when he died. I think I heard (I was in the kitchen making lunches at the time) a brief statement about water retention, but then the next thing I heard was the usual crap about Atkins encouraging the eating of lots of bacon and then one commentator saying..."well...If I can't have some bread with my bacon...."

Oh, well...at least they made it clear that the medical information was obtained illegally (didn't stop them from repeating it, though) and given to a "health advocacy group" who is closely allied to PETA.

[gotbeer]

The latest:

Story last updated at 6:44 a.m. Wednesday, February 11, 2004

Allies defend Atkins after report shows diet guru was overweight

Associated Press

http://www.charleston.net/stories/021104/wor_11atkins.shtml (registration required)

NEW YORK--The debate over Dr. Robert Atkins' popular high-fat, low-carb diet flared posthumously Tuesday when it was learned that Atkins himself was a bloated 258 pounds at his death.

A city medical examiner's report filed after Atkins' 2003 death from a fall showed the 6-foot doctor was at a weight normally considered obese. A physicians group that is highly critical of the diet released details of the report, claiming the Atkins diet led to weight and heart troubles for its 72-year-old creator.

Atkins' allies immediately disputed that.

The Atkins Physicians Council said the carbohydrate-shunning doctor gained more than 60 pounds through fluid retention in the eight days he spent in a coma before dying in April. He had slipped on an icy street and hit his head.

Atkins weighed 195 pounds when he was admitted, the group's chairman said.

"Critically ill patients, when sustained on fluids in the hospital, gain weight," said Dr. Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council, a group affiliated with the Atkins diet empire. "He was grossly swollen, so much so that his family and associates barely recognized him."

The medical examiner's report also noted that Atkins had a history of heart trouble, including congestive heart failure and high blood pressure. The Wall Street Journal first reported on the records Tuesday.

The doctor's heart troubles had been previously known publicly, and the council asserted Tuesday that they were a result of cardiomyopathy, or an enlarged heart, which it said stemmed from a viral infection, not diet.

"We need to set the record straight. This is a man who managed his weight," Trager said. "Isn't it time to let this man rest in peace?"

Atkins was the author of the best-selling "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution," which advocates meat, eggs and cheese and discourages bread, rice and fruit.

Physicians for Responsible Medicine, the group that released the report and promotes a vegetarian diet, acknowledged that fluid retention may have been responsible for some of Atkins' weight gain, but probably not all of it. The group maintains that the Atkins diet poses weight and health risks to the millions who follow it.

A healthy 6-foot man weighing 258 pounds would normally qualify as obese, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. At 195 pounds, he would be considered overweight.

[Oldcoyote]

The web site of Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) contains material common to animal rights groups including opposition to animal research and opposition to meat-eating. The news last night described PCRM as "vegan vegetarians" affiliated with PETA.

PCRM certainly has an axe to grind in attempting to discredit Atkins.

[perbain]

Dr. Atkins was a hero to the obese, and the vegan nazi's are the most immoral people on the face of the earth. I say,,, Let them shoot their mouths off, but the followers of Atkins will show them idiots, that they are idiots in the long run. I really get angry when people who claim to be experts attack something they have taken no time to learn - only ridicule to make kickbacks from companies who want to use cheap resources to feed their pocketbook. Imagine the tears of those who have fed us with sugar and refined white flour when they no longer make huge amounts of money with these products. Bastards!!!!

[perbain]

I remember once hearing Dr. Atkins say, "If you look in the mirror and like what you see, and if your body is free of all the old aches and pains it use to have, then this plan has worked for you, and no one will ever be able to convince you otherwise."

[tamborine]

DoreenT & Kristine, I agree with you both regarding the fluid retention (I'm an RN, too), but already they're trying to counter that argument. Here's a portion of another article entitled "Widow Won't Dine With Mayor" posted a little earlier by Gotbeer:

One explanation advanced yesterday for Atkins' weight was that it came from fluid retention while Atkins was hospitalized after he fell on a midtown Manhattan sidewalk and went into a coma. That was questioned by former city medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden, who said such patients, even those given too much intravenous fluid while unconscious, seldom gain more than 5 or 10 pounds.

"You simply can't gain 60 pounds in that way," said Baden, now forensics director for the New York State Police. "If somebody gained that much weight from an I.V., it would be gross, gross malpractice. I've never seen it happen."

__________________

[Sheldon]

Dr. Atkins was on Larry King Live not long before his fall on the ice. He didn't look obese to me.

Sheldon

[bonesigh]

Today, both the New York Post and New York Daily News online editions have articles covering the debate about Dr. Atkin's weight at the time of his death. But both story headlines refer to "Dr. Fatkins." You know, this is really low. The poor man suffers a critical accident, and gains weight from fluid retention until his death. Now, two of the big NYC newspapers refer to him as "Fatkins." This is just disrespectful, juvenile name calling. This newspapers should be ashamed of themselves.

-Mike

[mrfreddy]

the NY Post and the Daily News are just tabloid rags that specialize in juvenile name calling, nobody should be suprised at their lack of journalistic standards...

BUT, the Wall Street Journal is another story....

[Lisa N]

That was questioned by former city medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden, who said such patients, even those given too much intravenous fluid while unconscious, seldom gain more than 5 or 10 pounds.

Well...I've got news for Mr. Medical Examiner. When I was in the hospital giving birth to my last daughter, I was on an IV for 2 days (48 hours). My organs were all functioning just fine, thank you, and I was far from unconscious but I still managed to gain 12 pounds of fluid from the IV fluids. My hands were so swollen by the time that I came home, I could only close them halfway and I had to wear my slippers going home because I couldn't get my shoes on.
I can only imagine what IV fluid replacement would do to someone who had kidney, liver and heart failure going on and whose brain centers that control fluid homeostasis were damaged.
The records show that Dr. Atkins weighed 195 when he was admitted after his fall and 258 when he died. Since his only sustenance during that time was an IV, that's the only explanation for the gain. Malpractice issues aside, that is what the records show.
This guy should just keep quiet before he makes himself look even more stupid than he already has! :rolleyes:

[FromVA]

My H called me from the car this morning, upset because it was the first he had heard about this. When I told him all the details, he was amazed. Said the only thing reported on the news was that Dr. Atkins was obese when he died. You know that news station, a CBS affiliate, had all the facts before they went on the air this morning. What has happened to responsible journalism? And why use such underhanded methods to tarnish a dead man's reputation? Smacks of a "conspiracy" to me!:lol:

[gotbeer]

For those who don't mind a really sick parody:

http://www.thedailyfarce.com/health.cfm?story=2004%5C02%5Chealth_atkinsandpasta_02200400019

As bad as this is, it is a lot less offensive than the PCRM, IMHO.

[FromVA]

I am sure one of our really "responsible" journalists out there will pick this up and report it as fact. And you were right, gotbeer, it was a really sick parody!

[perbain]

They can all go to the devil for all I care. Nasty people. It really doesn't matter what they say, because ATKIDS know the real truth and thats - that this program works.

[cls923]

I have to agree with you..Let all those ignorant fools continue playing "in the box" they are in..We know the real truth...Thats what matters...

[pd Rydia]

Even if the whole world were to suddenly believe that the Atkin's diet was unsafe...

People would still do it. Why? Because it gets results. I mean, look at crash dieting. We *know* that's unhealthy, but I see people do it...over and over again.

And if people would still do it, the results would be largely the same...nice weight loss, bettered cholesterol. Better energy, etc...

Which would eventually lead to people reconsidering their stance on the unhealthiness of the diet.

Which would lead us back to where we are here.

Nice to think that the efforts of these "veggie-nazis," as another poster called them, are effectively futile! :]

[Klodo2]

For those who don't mind a really sick parody:

http://www.thedailyfarce.com/health.cfm?story=2004%5C02%5Chealth_atkinsandpasta_02200400019

As bad as this is, it is a lot less offensive than the PCRM, IMHO.
I don't mind a really sick parody, and this actually made me giggle. It's not so much a parody on Dr. Atkins as it is on this whole mud-slinging match that's currently going on. Note how they consistently spell his name wrong (in various ways): "Atkin's", "Atkins'", "Adkins" - I really found that funny because it reminded me of all the variables you have to put into a search engine in order to find Atkins info because so many people (including Atkins dieters) get it wrong.

And they make just as much fun of the detractors: "If you eat 5,000 calories of pasta a day, of course you will gain weight. But, on the other hand, if you eat 5,000 calories of fat including bacon, beef, eggs, cheese, etc, maybe you will not gain all the weight that you would eating the same amount in carbs, but you will end up dying of high cholesterol or getting a massive heart attack. It's all about the balance."

I know I'll be in the minority here, but I thought it was funny. I'm a slut for satire. :devil: