Check out this forum

[sexee_babe]

http://pub177.ezboard.com/fempowerfrm8.showMessage?topicID=45.topic

[Kristine]

:lol:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/madcow/images/sheep.jpeg

Atkins makes your kidneys blow up. Diabetics should continue to eat sugar and starch instead. You must eat fruit and grain. There is only one way to lose weight, and that's to starve yourself, anything else is a fad. B-a-a-a-a-h!

;) ;)

(No offense intended to those gals, I'm referring to the general public's tendancy to accept without question media myth. Indeed, I was once like them...)

[sunspine17]

I like the replies . . . . those poor low-fat/high carb brainwashed souls! All I can do is just shake my head and be happy that I'm in on the LC secret. Gosh, I used to be one of them. Glad I'm not now!

[kevjol]

I feel sorry for them

[silverfang]

nannering fools.

[SpecialK]

Sad isn't it. Some of the posters talk about donuts just like some of my old druggie friends talked about their drug of choice. Really Sad!

[MetilHed]

"Carbs form the basis of what we need in terms of nutrients."


I saw it on the internet, it must be true, right ?


Jeff

[shortstuff]

I'm sitting here LMAO at those poor misguided fools. Let's just feel sorry for them folks. Not only are they probably hungry all the time, but apparently their hunger has gotten in the way of their brain cells, i.e., inability to think for themselves.

shortstuff

[kyrasdad]

It seems to me that they're posting innuendos and half-truths that pepper the media in relation to LC diets. They don't know any better, they haven't researched it, they haven't read any books.

They are, in a word, like I was about 6 months ago. I wanted to reduce my meat intake drastically, eat lots of rice, breads, veggies and fruits, thinking it would help my health and weight. I bought into what the establishment was selling before I started this and actually read the material, both pro and con.

The common vein that runs through all the con material is that its best points got nullified by the research, and it's now relying on its second string, scare tactics, and dogma. Kidney damage, unproven and unlikely, is now pushed as the top selling point for the con camp. They can't push cholesterol increases anymore, nor can they do much on the weight loss front. Scare tactics are what they're left with, but it's too little too late. The public is beginning to understand this way of eating.

I also like how LC is now held to higher standards than low fat. After all, we don't know that it won't damage your kidneys long-term...while low fat diets are let off the hook on what they might do over many years to a person...

There isn't any stake for me in others working to better themselves via Low Carb, so even if LC loses the debate, I still get the benefit of it. However, I doubt it loses the debate.

[PatchLady]

Wow..some people are easily misguided. They are media brain washed.

[mildwild]

I used to be one of them...heck, I still am...maybe not in regards to atkins but I know for sure that I'm in denial about a lot of things...I wish people like us were able to enlighten people like them, but as a "people like them" myself from time to time, I know I'm not always open to listening (as much as I pretend to be open-minded)...anyway, it's too bad...they don't know what they're missing out on...

as sunspine17 said, this little LC secret....(?)

-mildwild

[Turtle2003]

Great site! Thanks for the laughs.

[black57]

I joined that forum just so that I can give them some understanding on this subject. They are such a group of non-thinkers. They are asking good questions now so hopefully they will begin to thinnk for themselves considering the group they claim to represent.

[Lisa N]

You're doing a good job in getting them to think about it a bit more, black! :thup: You might also want to mention that the plains indians followed migrating herds of buffalo and while the meat itself may be quite lean, during different seasons (particularly fall and winter) the buffalo had quite a bit of body fat from grazing on the plains all spring and summer. A lot of folks have the idea that wild animals are lean year round and that's not true. They eat as much as they can in spring, summer and early fall to build up body fat to survive the mating season and then the long winter that follows where food will be scarce and they would starve without sufficient stores of body fat to see them through the lean winter months. The Native Americans also ate the organ meats (higher in fat) and brains of many animals (also high in fat) as well as getting as much of the marrow from the bones as possible (again, high in fat).
Not all Native American cultures were argricultural either to any large degee; many of them were the traditional hunter/gatherers.
Finfish are not all "practically fat free" many of them (salmon in particular) are rich in a particular type of fat; omega 3. Shellfish contain cholesterol.

[black57]

Thanks Lisa, I know that Native Americans values fattier portions of animals. I am glad that you gave me this added info. I hope that I relay it to them as well as you did for me. Correct me if I am wrong but agriculture was just not that big of a deal to Native Americans. When the British came over they thought that the Natives were very savage and unskilled when it came to taking care of themselves. I am on my way.

[Lisa N]

Correct me if I am wrong but agriculture was just not that big of a deal to Native Americans.

Not completely true. Some of them did have an agrarian way of life as well as being hunters, but those tribes were not generally nomadic in the sense that they followed the migrating herds. I believe that the coastal tribes were more agrarian because they had access to more food sources year round than those living on the plains. The soutwestern tribes raised corn as well as other vegetables that would grow in the hot climate.
What studies have found, though, is that as tribes moved from being hunter/gatheres to agrarian, their health suffered tremendously; bone strength decreased and dental caries increased (just as the Egyptians who were also an agrarian culture...it didn't protect them from diseases such as heart disease, diabetes and obesity). Compare that with the Inuit who did not raise crops and lived as hunter/gatherers, eating large amounts of fat and yet heart disease, stroke, diabetes and even acne were unknown to them until a Western type diet was introduced.

[Dean4Prez]

What studies have found, though, is that as tribes moved from being hunter/gatheres to agrarian, their health suffered tremendously; bone strength decreased and dental caries increased
I've read that one reason the agrarian tribes had more problems with their teeth was that the stones they used to grind dried grain into flour were softer than the grindstones available to the Europeans of the time and tended to leave stone fragments in the ground grain.

Grain - A Natural Food!
Tooth Abscesses - A Natural Consequence! :(

[black57]

So then basically, we are discussing the Native Americans who were hunter/gatherers and not agrarian who, truly, reaped the benefits of a high protein diet.

I have 3 great big fat zits on my face. Perhaps I should consider eating a ure protein diet <<<LOL>>>

[Lisa N]

I've read that one reason the agrarian tribes had more problems with their teeth was that the stones they used to grind dried grain into flour were softer than the grindstones available to the Europeans of the time and tended to leave stone fragments in the ground grain.

I've read that as one possible explanation and also that when you live in the desert, it's pretty hard to keep sand out of your food and while that may possibly explain some of the dental caries present, it most likely doesn't explain all of it. It would more likely explain excessive tooth wear. It also doesn't explain the obesity, diabetes, heart disease and acne unless sand and stone chips are now digestible by humans. :rolleyes:

[Lisa N]

Black...regarding the last post on the other site, you might want to refer her to www.diabetes-normalsugars.com as a response to her "type 1 diabetics can't control their blood sugars well/consistantly on low carb" angle. She also seems to be under the impression that the induction phase of Atkins is NO carbs at all. :rolleyes:
Dr. Bernstein has been a type 1 diabetic since the age of 12 and has successfully managed his type 1 diabetes with low carb for about the past 40 years; no more than 30 grams of carb per day. Not only is he a type 1 diabetic, he's a man who became a doctor at the age of 45 so that he can help other diabetics learn to control their blood sugars and live long, healthy lives in spite of their disease.
His story is a very interesting one for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics in that the standard diabetic diet was slowly killing him and he reversed nearly all the complications that he had developed (including kidney and eye problems) by switching over to a low carb lifestyle. As it stands right now, he's currently well exceeded the average life expectancy for a type 1 diabetic and is still going strong. :thup:

[black57]

Thanks, y'all feel free to join in and give me some back up. <<<LOL>>>
I did mention to her that the Atkins diet was not a "no carbs" diet and I mentioned that one does not have to start on the induction phase. :cool:
I also told her that I would encourage some diabetics, namely type 1, to join in on the debate. I will present the Dr. Berstein info to her as well.

Black :)

[black57]

OK, has anyone seen my last posting on that board? How did I do? Any more help would be appreciated.

Black

[Grimalkin]

The soutwestern tribes raised corn as well as other vegetables that would grow in the hot climate.
What studies have found, though, is that as tribes moved from being hunter/gatheres to agrarian, their health suffered tremendously...

The Pima Indians of the Southwest (highest rate of diabetes in the world) have suffered a double punch. Not only does the Western diet aggravate their tendencies for insulin resistance (perhaps selected for after repeated bouts with famine), but the traditional desert foods tend to NOT disrupt blood sugar like western crops. Something to do with the desert adaptations of the plants. The tooth wear probably had more to do with the granite metates.

Some people are advocating return to traditional agrarian foods to alleviate many of their problems, although I really doubt there will ever be a big market for mesquite bean flour when white flour is so readily available.

[Lisa N]

Type 1 diabetics aren't the only ones who will suffer the consequences of poorly controlled blood sugars (as she seems to think). Type 2 diabetics who are poorly controlled suffer blindness, diabetic neuropathy, diabetic nephropathy, amputations, heart disease and strokes at pretty much the same rate as type 1's. Granted, they may be older when they start developing these problems from poor control because type 1 typically strikes children and type 2 typically develops in adults (although that is changing now, too, with children as young as 9 developing type 2) but it's still every bit as dangerous to their health.

[tholian8]

Type 2 diabetics who are poorly controlled suffer blindness, diabetic neuropathy, diabetic nephropathy, amputations, heart disease and strokes at pretty much the same rate as type 1's.

Yep. My father, who developed Type 2 in his fifties and was put on the ADA low fat nightmare diet, eventually got every problem in that list--and the kidney failure killed him, in the end. :(

Emily

[FromVA]

How interesting...the thread evolved from anti-Atkins to anti-corporation, with the premise that if it is a corporation, it is automatically bad, even though the message (LC) might have merit! If a corporation is behind the message, kill the messenger!!

[black57]

You know, I am no longer posting on that site ( if I can help it ). I don't mind debating with adults so when these girls grow up to be the enlightened women they profess to be I will make more comments.

It is rediculous to just go around in circles.

Black57 ( Empowered )

[Drake]

Dont believe the hype!!!! If given enough time, one can find a risk factor with just about anything. Weigh the risk factors associated with eating unhealthy and not exercising properly. Stack those risks up against the risks they have now tagged the Atkins diet with, and I guarantee the scale will tilt in Atkins favor. RISKS RISKS RISKS!!!! I risk my life everyday in clogged up morning commutes, I risk my life breathing air that looks like smoke(smog), and I do countless other little risks on a daily basis. Heck, if I ask the mailman not to read my Maxim magazine before I get it, he may just go postal. Why RISK it? Since starting Atkins, I haven't felt this good in years. I surely didn't feel this way when I was eating chips, pizza, and drinking BIG GULPS on a regular basis. SO I WILL TAKE MY CHANCES!!!!

[Deeanna]

I cannot believe how misinformed these folks are. It is obvious to me that they fail to realize, or refuse to acknowledge as do millions of others, that low fat and fat free products are packed full of sugar and chemicals. They don't realize that the very HUGE corporation called the Food and Drug Administration approves, endorses, and encourages consumption of what I call poison foods; low fat and fat free. Hmmm, and the medical community STILL hasn't figured out what the root of some cancers are. It just couldn't be all these chemicals, most of which NONE of us, including the FDA, can prounounce, but hey...go ahead and ingest them because the FDA says it's good for you! Oh yes, nothing better than fat free cheese and fat free margarine, neither of which melt, I might add. Doesn't anyone even question what this junk is made of that prevents it from melting??!!


http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/20/111641.shtml
Above is yet another anti-Atkins article. I am going to respond to it, particularly the part that says "low carb diets aren't a quick fix for those with no self-control." Perhaps some have no self control because they are addicted to the chemicals and sugar found in these so-called low fat and fat free foods that are supposed to be good for us??!! Also, "Fumento challenges Atkins' belief that eating fats causes people to become satiated." This has proven true for me and I would venture to say thousands upon thousands of others. A prime example for me is breakfast. If I eat two or three eggs and bacon or sausage, I am quite content until lunch. In fact, I am so satiated that I sometimes forget about lunchtime until it has passed. BUT, when I eat a bowl of cereal, I am hungry about an hour or so after. If I try all fruit breakfast, I am ravenous in about 45 minutes. So, tell me, of the three, which is the best? Of the three, which will be the least calories consumed? I can assure you when I get hungry I eat, so wouldn't it make more sense to have one breakfast instead of two or three??

I believe one of Dr. Atkins' many goals in his book was to get people off of convenience foods..the white flour products, sweets...basically anything full of flour, sugar, and chemicals. I am so fed up with people taking the Atkins diet out of context. Nearly all of the negative articles I read never bother to mention that Atkins is PRO vegetables, PRO low protein, and PRO exercise. So what if fruit is limited? There are so many nutrient dense vegies Atkins wants people to eat that people don't need to eat fruit. He does say in his book to eat berries since they are more nutrient dense than other fruits. Did anyone know that a tomato has more vitamin C than an orange? I learned that years ago and eliminated oranges from my diet.

Then there are those who haven't read the book and claim the diet is for people who don't have time to exercise. Funny, Atkins' first statement in his book in the chapter called Exercise: It's non-Negotiable clearly states "if you're not getting regular exercise, you aren't following the Atkins Nutritional Approach." DUH!

Let me get off my soap box now. People just never cease to amaze me at how they are unable to think for themselves and put too much trust in an organization (FDA) which is poisoning us and is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic in the US.

[black57]

Deanna, I wrote to the writer o this article also. I hope he gets alot of mail from us.

Black57

[IdahoSpud]

Here's an interesting article. Does anyone doubt that the US Ag lobby is taking all this lying down???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/05/watkin05.xml

[FromVA]

How very interesting! This is the first article from a British paper that hasn't bashed Atkins!! But then, the Telegraph is a cut above the Mirror, etc. Do you know if this has been posted on the Media Forum? It is dated May, 2003.

[IdahoSpud]

Don't know. Feel free to repost it in a more appropriate place if you like.

And more importantly, Happy New Years to you!

[Lisa N]

How very interesting! This is the first article from a British paper that hasn't bashed Atkins!! But then, the Telegraph is a cut above the Mirror, etc. Do you know if this has been posted on the Media Forum? It is dated May, 2003.

Yup! http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=141093&highlight=Jebb

[Bloveld]

At least they allow discussion.
I have been banned from vegsource.com forum for questioning vegan nutrition. I just mentioned the high animal fat/protein diet of neanderthals and asked where vegans get omega 3 from, oh I did ask if anyone had seen a fat lion. Now I am blocked. What a joke.
Steve

[owen93]

nannering fools.

worthy of the beloved Nanner emoticon.
http://mrslippery.com/ani/nanner.gif

I admin a LARGE board on EZboard and let me assure you that the place gathers some of the whackiest message board folk you can imagine.

The subcontext I found in that thread is that they are primarily Far Left Wing types. The kind who have no problem avoiding reality if it doesn't fit their prescribed World View.

For example one of them consistently whines about how Low Carb is only for the Privileged. Granted Steak or Chicken breasts tend to be pricier than a box of Ronzoni, and the commercial low carb products are overpriced. But I detect an over-riding political agenda amongst that boards denizens.

Last time I checked the big joke about Govt Subsidised foods was centered on Government Cheese! Can't get any less privileged than
F R E E !!!.

[odyssey]

Just wanted to comment about "privilege". i am disabled and live on less than 600 a month and because of insulin resistance and pcos i restrict my carbohydrates. Those who cannot afford books from the used book stores can access them from the library and my food bill is no more expensive than it was before i began taking care of myself in this manner.

[owen93]

and my food bill is no more expensive than it was before i began taking care of myself in this manner.

Good point.

Thats why I said I think they have a "Political Agenda"

When your life is on the line, you can find a way to make
lifesaving practices work for you. Allowing some cerebral
political point to stand in your way is just plain silly.

[JL53563]

I just read some of that forum. I actually laughed out loud a couple of times. Funny and sad at the same time.