Red Flag Alert on ATkins 2 Deaths

[sexee_babe]

It scares me after I heard on CBS.com about the heart abnormalities that developed in 3 people doing the Atkins plan...2 people died...and one was diagnosed with a heart abnormality...and all were on atkins plans...so I am researching the South Beach Plan, seems that the plan is also low fat and light foods along with low carb....and a bit more carbs in it...not so restricting on breads and pastas...etc..I wanna healthy heart and lose weight then maintain it.
If you want more info on the news alert go to www.cbs.com (http://www.cbs.com) and see news...atkins red flag alert. This scared me...even though there is no proof that it was caused by atkins...but I find that I am eating way too much fat and I want to reduce that intake...for heart health.

Thanks for taking a peek and if anyone has any advice feel free to post me some answers...I know you need fat in this diet for it to work....but I feel the need to reduce it.

[doreen T]

hi there,

FWIW, the PCRM group promoting this anti-Atkins campaign is a well-known militant animal rights vegan organization affiliated with PETA.

There are several ongoing discussions about this in the Research/Media forum ..Atkins diet on CBCNEWS (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=150106)

Group Says Atkins Diet Caused Teen's Death (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=150009)

Atkins Physicians response to PCRM/Radical Vegans (http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=150042)

hth,

Doreen

[Kestrel]

Yes, lets all believe CBS and PCRM and PETA. While you're at it, better lock up your fridge too, per this "news" article:

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1103/111140.htm

Of course, it won't matter whether you're on Atkins, South Beach, WW, Measly Eaters or whatever if you have the dastardly problem noted in that article...

Sometimes all you can do is shake your head...

[sexee_babe]

Ok...I am still scared...but this doesn't mean I am going to give up LCing....just cut some fat out of my diet.
I am thumbs up on LC...is this all about promoting weight watchers and all other diets, animal rights activists..etc...?
Dr. Atkins is dead, let him rest.

[doreen T]

..is this all about promoting weight watchers and all other diets, animal rights activists..etc...?The PCRM isn't against FAT, as long as it's from a plant. That group is against eating MEAT or any animal foods, including milk and eggs. Their arguments are not new, it's just that the media has picked up on their campaign and is spreading it over and over :rolleyes:


Doreen

[Kristine]

Remember your statistics class here. Three people out of millions on Atkins and other low carb plans. That is hardly significant. On any given day, randomly, many people will develop health problems. Some of them will happen to be LCing. That doesn't mean they're related.

[Nebula]

Remember your statistics class here. Three people out of millions

This is what I find humorous about the whole situation. Can we say, "grabbing at straws?"

Three people out of tens of millions and, more importantly, no one can conclusively identify that these three people died from anything having to do with the diet. It is completely plausible that they would have died regardless of what diet they were on because of shoddy pre-diagnostic medical advice and/or testing.

Regardless, as others have said, the PCRM group isn't a reputable source.

[sexee_babe]

Very True!!!

Thats what I was thinking, just the fact that they were on Atkins gave them an edge to start something and try to back up thier theories............so what they could have been on weight watchers and it could have been us LCers starting a huge controversial campagne on weight watchers, RIGHT?

[Rick Jones]

This is the same tired old crap that all these guys spout against Atkins and other low-carb diets. I especially like the claim that vegetarians are skinnier and live longer than the rest of us. Exactly what studies does he have to prove this?

It's easy enough to put out a bunch of scary "information", and even easier to find a major media outlet which will gladly put it on the air, but let's not forget that these people are pushing their own agenda, whatever it may be.

There is way too much science that is proving out low-carb as a healthy lifestyle to be too concerned about this "report".

Rick

[adkpam]

Fat is not your enemy!
Fat is your friend!
It's not like the government has every been wrong before, right?
DO NOT FEAR FAT.

"But no study has demonstrated long-term health benefits that can be directly attributed to a low-fat diet." per Scientific American:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0007C5B6-7152-1DF6-9733809EC588EEDF

From this same article:

"The only fats that are significantly more deleterious than carbohydrates are the trans-unsaturated fatty acids; these are produced by the partial hydrogenation of liquid vegetable oil, which causes it to solidify. Found in many margarines, baked goods and fried foods, trans fats are uniquely bad for you because they raise LDL and triglycerides while reducing HDL."

This article I've linked to is not completely understanding about low carb. But the statements above indicated the latest research and the trend it is heading towards.

We've had it pounded into our heads that fat is the problem. America has reduced its intake of dietary fat from 45% in 1945 to 34% in 1995 (per the US government.) During this same period diabetes, heart disease and obesity has INCREASED.

DO THE MATH!!!!!!!

[melissasvh]

I'm so glad some other people have pointed out the fact that these are, statistically, isolated instances. Hello, what about genetics or other possible causes. Grrrr.

So, I have an idea. Let's start spreading rumors about how bad a low-cal, low-fat lifestyle is for you, based on our own isolated experiences. For example: low fat diets are hazardous because you can eat a lot of pasta. You have to boil water to cook the pasta, which puts you at risk for steam burns and scalds. This happened to me...more than once. So, the headlines should read:

Low-Fat Diet Causes Third Degree Burns.

[sexee_babe]

I starved on low cal diets.....so I found myself bingeing alot....purging at nights.........so that don't work too well. Besides the food sucks. No taste...LOL~ low fat diet causes 3rd degree burns.

[Faust]

How did Dr. Barnard go from "news of the weird" in June 2003 to head of a "nutirtion advocacy" group in November?

This guy is NOT a responsible scientist! He is an agenda pursuing...I'd better quit now before I type something in violation of the site's TOS. :nono:

Patrick, very grumpy this morning

===========

http://www.ncbuy.com/news/wireless_news.html?qdate=2003-06-05&nav=VIEW&id=42L41TT677I030605

June 5, 2003 - Wireless Flash
Behold The Power Of Cheese: It's Addictive Like Morphine

WASHINGTON (Wireless Flash) -- Here's food for thought: A physician claims cheese is as addictive as morphine.
Dr. Neal Barnard is the author of "Breaking the Food Seduction: The Hidden Reasons Behind Food Cravings and Seven Steps to End them Naturally" (St. Martin's Press) which explains why people are addicted to cheese, meat, sugar and chocolate.

Cheese is particularly addictive because it contains small amounts of morphine made in the cow's liver. When the dairy protein breaks apart in the stomach, it releases the opiate molecules.

Some of the foods have about one-tenth the strength of morphine, and while that may not sound like much, Dr. Barnard says because the foods are so available it's easy to satisfy a fix.

He also says this research could help those fat souls currently suing fast food restaurants by proving the food is addictive like tobacco.

But don't expect to see rehab centers for meat eaters. Dr. Barnard says folks will have to break the addiction by changing their diet, exercising and getting enough sleep.

[black57]

It is interesting that this diet has been in existance for thousands of years. Dr. Atkins, and others, writes a book about it. Thirty years later it is now mainstream and people are finally dying from it. This is nonsense. If you had the opportunity to watch Oprah two days ago, you would never believe anything a doctor or "so called" specialist. I saw a book at Barnes and Nobel about the government's rationale of the food pyramid. You'd be surprised to see what exists on the pyramid because of the agricultural industry. I go by my own health and stick with what is good for me. Don't let propaganda scare you.

[JudyMH]

It's going to be interesting, because the bread industry is feeling threatened because sales are down. I'll bet money they start their own Atkins smear campaigne. Some people would do anything to line their own pockets. These PETA people have their own agenda, They'd like to see us get over run with animals. If you don't eat them, they multiply like crazy. Judy

[potatofree]

I saw a bumper sticker once that made me laugh.. something about why does PETA harass rich women in fur, and not biker gangs in leather?

[scorpio381]

It's going to be interesting, because the bread industry is feeling threatened because sales are down. I'll bet money they start their own Atkins smear campaigne.

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that the bread industry will be making their own versions of low carb bread before long. They're not going to sit by and let everyone else rake in the profits from the low carb "fad" without getting their piece of the action. :wiggle:

[Nancy LC]

It's going to be interesting, because the bread industry is feeling threatened because sales are down.

The smart ones are making low carb bread and charging an arm & leg for it and making money hand over fist. No, I think only the potato farmers and banana plantation owners have to fear this diet trend. Well, maybe Orville Reddenbacker. I don't forsee lowcarb popcorn... /cry

[JudyMH]

I've seen 3 different brands of low carb bread in the grocery store lately, so you may have a point. The makers of Twinkies and Little Debbies may soon have a problem though(LOL). I'm glad to see more and more products out there that are low carb. Seriously though People have been eating this way for generations before the agricultural age that only happened 10,000 years ago. I don't understand how they can blame the deaths on Atkins. People die no matter what they are eating, that is just the way it ends up. While we are here it makes sense to take care of yourself to the best of your ability. It doesn't make sense to carb up and gain all kinds of weight. That is exactly what a farmer does to live stock to fatten them up before slaughter. Judy

[Bloveld]

Hello
I dont have a lot of faith in a lot of the studies that come from either side of the debate. Many vegeterians dont smoke or drink and exercise a lot. And they avoid many prosessed foods thereby avoiding trans fats. So they will tend to be healthier.
I would prefer to look at the health of a vegeterian society untainted by modern food processing. If one existed that is.
I am reading the book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, where the author visited a number of uncivilised groups and looked at their dental and general health. I cant find 1 group that avoided animal fat and protein like our society is trying to. Tribes like the Masai ate blood, milk and meat and had great health and impressive physiques.
Steve

[Skinny Jim]

I would surely be dead or incapacitated for life if I had not decided to follow a low carb plan. How many other lives have been saved by eating the way humans should?

[wrightway7]

The ones who died were probably on some kind of medication. Any medication . All medications have deadly side effects, are we all going to stop using Tylenol? I don't think so. They all drove a car, but we arn't going to stop driving. Think about it. Anytime someone dies, the family always tries to link the death to something, other than natural causes. When it's your time, it's your time!!!

[wwdimmitt]

How many people die every day in the US? Several thousand, right?

A minority of them are on any low carb plan, so that means that a majority are on some other eating plan, mostly low fat.

For those who cannot understand complex cause and effect issues, this should be enough to convince you to stick with the low carb WOE, right??

LOL

I just looked it up: For 1996 the daily average number of deaths in the US was 6,342.

Carpe Diem!

[Zuleikaa]

This story is such a crock. They were on medication. This keeps coming up.

[CindySue48]

We've had it pounded into our heads that fat is the problem. America has reduced its intake of dietary fat from 45% in 1945 to 34% in 1995 (per the US government.) During this same period diabetes, heart disease and obesity has INCREASED.

DO THE MATH!!!!!!!


But don't you read the articles???? It's not because we're eating the wrong thing, it's because we're eating too much!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Several people have posted references to the Weston A Price Foundation. They are pro-fat and anti-carb. Look at this link, it shows how much these people are eating! http://www.westonaprice.org/nutrition_guidelines/boarddiets.html

Look at the amount of calories these people are eating! Unless they're over 7ft tall they're eating "too much". And it's mostly fat! :eek:

BTW....most of the links in this thread aren't working? I could see adkpam's only. The others all lead to site links, but no articles were seen. help? :help:

[adukart]

Just wanted to pop in and give you a link to this article I found. WW it kind of sounds like what you are trying to say.

http://www.theidealdiet.com/newsletters/Jan04ZNKB/Jan04.htm

Here is the article if the link doesn't work.

The IDEAL DIET Newsletter - January 2004

Copyright January 2004 - All Rights Reserved



Nutrition News - New Report of Atkins Diet Danger

Contents

Atkins Diet Danger

The Claim
Analysis
Questions from Readers:

Alcohol and blood sugar
Cardiologic benefit of alcohol
Low carb diet and athletes


Atkins Diet Danger - The Claim

Neal Barnard. M.D., President of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM), appeared in a press conference and on The Early Show at CBS in November, where he reported potential dangers of low carb diets.

Dr. Bernard reported the following 3 cases:

Case 1 - A 16-year-old girl who "went on a popular low carb, high fat, high protein diet", collapsed in school and died suddenly. Autopsy showed a massive abnormality in the heart.


Case 2 - A 41-year-old man with no prior history of heart disease, who collapsed suddenly; the autopsy showed a massive heart malfunction.


Case 3 - A man who had a heart scan prior to going on the diet, and got a clean bill of health, but after about two years the low-carb diet, developed chest pain, had stress test changes and angiogram that showed a massive blockage in the heart.
People claiming to have been harmed by high-protein diets reported health problems on PCRM's Web site registry. The online registry found:

42 percent reported loss of energy
31 percent reported difficulty concentrating
22 percent reported kidney problems
20 percent reported heart-related problems
The PCRM is asking the U.S. Centers For Disease Control to investigate …"what problems could be or could not be linked to this kind of diet fad."

On the Early Show Dr. Bernard admitted that the small number of documented cases and results from the PCRM Web site survey does not present hard scientific evidence or proof of harm from the Atkins diet, but he saw enough of a pattern to warrant real studies.His advice to people who are on these type of diets is to get off of them and follow the dietary guidelines that health authorities have established.

Analysis

The cases reported cannot be interpreted scientifically to reach any conclusion. I did not see the transcript of the actual press conference or The Early Show, but had access to the CBS Healthwatch article. I do not know if Dr. Bernard used more specific medical terms which were then "dumbed down" by the news reporter, or whether the medical reports were vague -- either way the medical information provided in this article is not very useful.

Case 1 - a "massive abnormality" in the heart of a 16-year-old girl would most likely be a structural defect that is congenital; but this is hard to say because "massive abnormality" is not a scientific term, and does not tell you what the condition is. You must be more precise about the cause of death if you want to relate it to anything. There are not many heart conditions that would be affected by diet - actually the only relationship I can think of is that a diet deficient in certain vitamins and minerals could cause problems with heart function.

Case 2 - Again, "massive heart malfunction" is not any type of medical term. Heart malfunctions have many causes, and to relate this and the previous case to diet without providing the specific pathology and a theory as to how a low carb diet could possibly be related is totally irresponsible, and constitutes scientific "mumbo jumbo". People have heart "malfunctions" all the time, many with no prior history or warning signs, and these occur in many persons who are using the recommended low fat diet. It is totally unscientific to take one case out of thousands and relate the cause to diet.

Case 3 - Here is a supposed cause-effect relationship. There is still a problem with the lack of useful medical terminology. The man had an angiogram after two years, but what kind of "heart scan" did he have prior to his low carb diet? An angiogram shows blockages in the coronary arteries, and is never called a "heart scan". If the initial test was a different type of test, it is like comparing apples to oranges.

The blockage may have already been there and not seen on a different type of "heart scan". Also the blockage would not be "in the heart" but in the coronary arteries. Perhaps Dr. Bernard or the news reporter is simplifying the wording for non-medical persons, but for this type of claim they should be more precise.

It is quite possible that the man in Case #3 did not have blockages initially, then developed them two years later. This does not mean his diet was responsible for the change. This happens to many people who use low fat, or any other type of diet. If you have read the last three issues of The IDEAL DIET Newsletter, you are aware that inflammation is the most likely cause of blockage in arteries, not diet or cholesterol. Check out October, November and December issues.

Other information is missing from these cases:


What exactly did these persons eat?
Did they use protein supplements in place of real food?
Enough calories?
Adequate vitamins and minerals?
Any diuretics, laxatives or other medications?
What are their other risk factors for heart problems?
I remember in the early 80's there was a diet fad of using large numbers of protein capsules in place of food, and there were some deaths - I believe they were traced to a deficiency in zinc. There have also been deaths related to the use of diuretics along with restricted diets, probably due to potassium deficiency.

There is no reason for a 16-year-old girl - or anyone - to have heart problems merely due to eating more protein and fewer carbs, if the diet includes adequate calories, vitamins and minerals. But heart disease will continue to occur in many persons regardless of diet.

As for the website survey, never be fooled by numbers like this. First of all, you have to compare the percentages with the number of responses to know whether the statistics have any meaning. There were only 188 total responses, of which 20% reported heart or kidney problems - this equals 37 people. Secondly, this does not mean that the heart and kidney problems were due to diet. Thirdly, the persons who go to this particular website may be those who have problems with the low carb diet, so you would not have what is called a "representative sample" of the population of low carb diet users.

And here is some interesting information. IDEAL DIETers sent me a copy of the Health Sciences Institute e-Alert newsletter covering this topic (thanks Lee and Penni). In addition to refuting any scientific aspect to Dr. Bernard's claims, this author also reports that PCRM is an animal-rights activist organization that rigorously promotes a vegetarian diet, and that apart from its main web site, the PCRM operates a separate site that is entirely devoted to attacking the Atkins diet.

CBS did not mention this in their news story! You can check out HSI e-Alert at http://www.hsibaltimore.com/ealert/freecopy.html.

Dr. Bernard called for "real" studies. He is getting his wish, because they are already being done on low carb diets. One is reported in November 2003 in Mayo Clinic Proceedings: "Effect of a high saturated fat and no-starch diet on serum lipid subfractions in patients with documented atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease." by J.H. Hays et al. It was a small study of only 23 obese patients with atherosclerotic heart disease, using statin treatment. The patients were monitored on a "high saturated fat, starch avoidance" diet for 24 and 52 weeks between 1997 and 2000.

The results: patients lost weight and body fat and had decreases in triglycerides and VLDL. LDL and HDL levels did not change but HDL size increased. The conclusion: no adverse effects on serum lipids.




Questions from Readers

Question: Alcohol and Blood Sugar
I understand that alcohol reduces blood sugar level, and, separately, a meal high in carbohydrates of high glycemic index (like potatoes) will cause a rapid rise in blood sugar. If the alcohol is consumed with the carbohydrates, does the alcohol have the effect of reducing, or eliminating, the rapid rise in blood sugar? Will the alcohol raise HDL level and the HDL to total chlosterol ratio?

A: This question has a very interesting answer, which you can find at the new web page called "Ask Dr. McBride". I will try to answer questions here between newsletters. There is also a form on the page to use for sending your question.

Question: Cardiologic benefit of alcohol
In the South Beach Diet book (Dr A Agatston), there is a statement to the effect that there is evidence that a meal high in saturated fats may produce a dysfunction in the arteries, such that the lining of the arteries (endothelium) is predisposed to constriction and clotting. Without (as far as I can tell) going into much detail, the South Beach book suggests that resveratrol in red wines is cardiologically beneficial.

I have read elsewhere that red wine produces a decrease in endothelin-1 (a substance that was stated to cause hardening of the arteries) in proportion to the amount of polyphenols or resveratrol in the wine. I would be interested in your view on this. The popular literature on nutrition does not seem to dwell in much detail on the nutritional effects of alcohol beyond suggesting some beneficial effects of wine, especially red wine when consumed in moderation.

I assume that when you you mentioned that moderate consumption of alcohol may produce an increase in the HDL/chol ratio, you meant 1 to 2 glasses a day.

A: I was curious about Dr. Agatston's claim about saturated fat's effect on blood vessels. He gave no scientific reference, and I have not found any for this.

As for alcohol, it has been observed for some time that alcohol consumption is related to lower risk of coronary heart disease. Increased HDL levels, reduced platelet aggregation and blood coagulation (preventing clots) and increased fibrinolytic activity (breaking apart clots) have all been shown to be associated with alcohol consumption. I have seen different interpretations for "moderate" consumption, but I go along with 1-2 drinks per day for women and 2-3 drinks per day for men. A drink would be defined as 1.5-ounce glass of wine, 12 ounces of beer, or 1.5 ounces of hard liquor. More is not better, but instead causes problems.

Question: Low Carb Diet and Athletes
I would greatly like to know your thoughts about how you would modify your dietary advice for athletes, or for those seeking to increase weight--especially muscular bodyweight. Since vigorous muscular activity relies 100% on carbohydrate for energy--it seems that a higher carb intake is mandatory for building muscle and replenishing glycogen stores from daily workouts.

As I'm sure you are aware, some scientific research suggests that carb intakes exceeding 60% of calories is necessary to maintain optimum muscle glycogen stores when exercising vigorously (2hrs a day). For those exercising 45-60 minutes I'm sure less is needed, but still more than the baseline 120 grams needed for optimum brain function.

A: The way your body uses fuel during exercise depends on the type of exercise, the duration, and how well trained you are. The diet you use before and after exercise will depend on whether you want to gain or lose weight.

A high intensity exercise like sprinting uses lots of fuel for a short time, so it depends only on the fuels that are present in the muscles - glycogen and creatine phosphate. In endurance exercise such as marathon running, the muscles use their glycogen and fat (triglyceride) stores as well as glucose and free fatty acids from the bloodstream. The percentages of each depends on how well trained the athlete is.

Carbohydrates are the most important fuel in the first hour, after which fat gradually increases in importance. Highly trained athletes have a better ability to use fat as fuel, allowing them to use their glycogen stores more economically.

Sports like soccer, football, baseball, basketball, and tennis are considered intermittent high-intensity exercise. The player will make many short sprints at full speed with slower pace in between, for durations of an hour or more. These athletes that are endurance trained will be able to preserve their glycogen stores by burning more fat during the intervals of lower intensity. However, they should also train at high intensity to increase speed and muscle oxygen levels for the short sprints.

Skeletal muscle contains 10-23 grams of glycogen per kg of muscle, meaning that a person weighing 70 kg (154 lb) has from 350-800 g of glycogen. If you are using the IDEAL DIET at 90 grams of carbs daily, you obviously will not replace glycogen stores with carbohydrates after vigorous exercise. This is fine if you want to lose weight, because your body will burn fat for energy as it converts protein to glucose, then to glycogen. This will take some time, however, so you may feel sluggish for a period of time after exercise.

If you are exercising vigorously for more than an hour, you may want to use carbs post-exercise to replace glycogen stores more rapidly. I would recommend fruit juices in quantities containing 80-100 g of carbs in addition to your daily carb count.

You (the questioner) say you want to gain weight, in which case you should be using more carbs to keep your glycogen stores loaded both before and after exercise. This probably will require using a diet that contains 50-60% of calories from carbohydrates. You also will want to replace glycogen stores rapidly after exercise by using 300-400 grams of carbs (or more, depending on your exercise intensity and duration). These are general numbers that would be modified by your lean weight, and type and frequency of exercise.

Creatine supplements have been shown in many studies to help increase muscle mass, and also can improve energy production in high-intensity and intermittent high-intensity exercise. The typical loading dose is 20 g/day for 5-6 days, followed by a maintenance dose of 2-3 g/day.

It was once thought that muscle proteins were broken down during exercise, and required high protein intakes to replace them. This has been shown to be incorrect, however, you can have loss of muscle mass due to protein being used for energy if your total calorie intake is not adequate for your activity level. I would use the same protein recommendation as given in DIET TRUTHS REVEALED as a minimum, and I would see no reason to limit fat intake.

[cathieg]

I am fat and the first to admit it. I was actually pretty happy with my fat. It was my doctor who said go on Atkins or die. He did not offer the choice of a non LC diet.
The first time he told me this he scared me, but I didn't go on the diet. When I went back, my blood test were worse. He had a very serious talk with me, now I'm seriously on the diet, no cheating.
If my doctor of 10 years believes this strongly that it's the right thing for me to do, and so far he's taken excellent care of my medical condition, then I'm sticking with it.

[owen93]

These PETA people have their own agenda, They'd like to see us get over run with animals. If you don't eat them, they multiply like crazy. Judy


Ya Think ?

Personaly I've never met a barnyard animal I liked so much I wouldn't eat it.

When I encountered the LC diet it was like it's made for me.
I am a total carnivore, and love both eggs and cheese.

[LCAndy]

The 3 people could of easyly had problems before they started Atkins which caused there death before i went to Atkins diet (now on CAD) i got my cholestrol read and it was alot higher then i thought!

[rosemarie7]

PETA is actually a very radical group. I read in National Review that they are lodging a campaign against KFC, calling it Kentucky Fried Cruelty or something like that.
Companies actually listen to them out of fear.
-R.M.

[delilah]

I would like to see the alternative statistic bandied about. Like, hmm, I dunno... like how many people died during the years between 1970-2000 from diabetes after switching to a low-fat diet? Or, just how many people suffered from hypoglycemia after not having had any reason to get it?

GRR!

(While I think that PETA has some good points on their agenda, I wonder if they realize that the blood from slaughterhouses is used on their vegetables as fertilizer?)

[Thumper57]

Personally, I don't pay much attention to anything the TV news media puts out, because I don't trust their liberal viewpoints.

Just remember:

If you tell the same lie LOUD enough and LONG enough, eventually the ignorant masses will believe it to be true.

Just ask Bill Clinton...........

[bfritz_pa]

Had Open Heart Surgery (Valve Problem) in Dec 03.. Had Lost 45 pounds between 8/03 - 11/03 thank God on Atkins. After surgery went off diet on Cardiologist advice.......

Gained back the 45lbs. My Primary Doctor says go back to LC because of my blood results .. Lower Colesterol when on LC... So I'm starting again and hope to make it a WOL..

3 deaths out of millions? That actually sounds healthy to me... Thanks for this new information I'll use it for encouragement!!

If I should be the unfortunate 4th person..My PallBearers will be happy with my lighter casket... lol

[FromVA]

As a reminder...it has never been proven these deaths were the result of the Atkins WOE. It is speculation, and you need to check out the source. This issue is becoming another "urban legend". :)

[MolonLabe]

The ones who died were probably on some kind of medication.

Or, maybe they didn't watch their potassium level. I know my base diet low-carb is very low in potassium and I have to supplement it or take care to eat potassium rich foods.

[CherylAust]

Don't go on Atkins because 2 people died, that's the advice I got when I restarted Atkins. So out of thousands who are on Atkins a couple of deaths is enough to make it such a bad thing. Where are the news stories about how we shouldn't get in cars, on planes, boats, trains or even walk across the road because people have died doing that?

How many people have heart abnormalities and don't know it? John Ritter (RIP) did, they only found it after his passing. My own sister has a heart problem that she found out about when she was pregnant, it's been there all her life and she never knew. No I lie, she had a very rapid heartbeat one day, only lasted for a minute or so and she went to the Dr they found nothing wrong. She had the same symptons that lasted for hours while she was pregnant and another bout while she was in labour. Tests have shown that she has an extra piece in her heart, it's part of what causes the heart to beat. When it kicks in, her heart is getting extra signals to beat. She was in her late 20's when she found out about this.

[gawdess]

Mmmmm Fat.... yum yum

[phoenix606]

Traffic deaths are the 9th leading cause of death. By 2020, they will be the 3rd leading cause, exceeding cancer and heart disease. Air pollution from private automobiles kills +40,000 each year. Increasing dependency on automobiles has been correlated with rising obesity rates, along with television watching.

Cars kill. Obesity kills. Atkins does not kill.

Be *very critical* of anyone who tells you not to do something because somebody died doing it--people die crossing the street on their way to church. Maybe they shouldn't go to church...or cross the street.

[watcher16]

Alarm!!

Yes "Red Flag Alert on ATkins 2 Death":

So Non-Atkins-eaters die with 20.000 EACH DAY!

[Cicero]

Correlation does not mean causation. Statistically speaking most people start Adkins due to a weight problem. Does it not stand to reason then that a few heart attacks occur? This media sensationalism is getting way out of hand. Red Alert? What is this Star Trek?

[LilaCotton]

Very interesting! Whilst reading through the posts, I had a few ideas pop into my head. I don't know if I can remember them all, but I'm going to try.

One person said something along the lines of it's not like the government hasn't been wrong before.

So true! How many years have we listened to the government tell us we should eat margarine, because it's so much healthier for us? Another example was my grandfather. In 1972, he had a massive coronary that resulted in open-heart surgery. Naturally, he was put on the Pritikin diet, which is super, super low-fat. Now here's an old fellow who smoked pretty much all his life, ate whatever he wanted, was an alcoholic a good part of his adult life (I don't know when he quit drinking--sometime in the early- to mid-60s probably). AND he feared for his life. My grandpa was afraid to die. So naturally he did everything the doctors told him to do. He cut out beef and all saturated fats. He ate margarine, if anything. He'd make a turkey soup by baking the turkey to death in the oven, then taking the turkey and boiling it, putting that in the fridge, skimming off the grease, then re-heating it, refrigerating and skimming again. Then he'd heat it, add rice and veggies. Let me just say it was gross! On top of this, Grandpa never had a problem eating packaged cookies--of course, we all know packaged cookies contain transfats. He never ate a lot of them, but enjoyed a couple occasionally.

Okay--that paragraph's just getting too long! Anyway, seven years later, Grandpa had a massive stroke, which killed him. A few years after that, I remember reading an article that said cutting red meats from the diet was a huge culprit in promoting strokes in people. So, Grandpa's heart attack didn't kill him; his diet did. But then again, it was his time to go I'm sure, and nothing would've prevented that.

We all know the bull we've been fed by our government for years now--it's nothing new. We're nothing more than guinea pigs. They claim to be trying to save people's lives when in reality they aren't. There is enough evidence out there to show the government (not just our country's government, but the clandestine group that basically oversees the world) has decided the world can't sustain its growth rate (and they're right on that count), so they are out to remove a lot of us. What better way to off us than through what we eat? Turn us into a bunch of cancer-ridden, diabetic, heart attack patients! Hey, at least we'll die happy, right? Look at all that wonderful junk food!

Oh my! This is going to be so long, no one will read it!

Another thought that came to mind was that of my sister. Now here was a woman who'd had some health problems her whole life (allergies, etc.). Partly because of the allergies and partly because she likes an excuse for consuming junk, she's a junk food addict. She also suffered from low blood pressure (and yes, I do mean suffered). No doctor even began to figure out what the problem with the blood pressure was.

A few years ago she was diagnosed with diabetes. A very short time after that she had her first heart attack. It was just chalked up to the fact she's diabetic. In the ensuing years, her heart got worse and worse, and she had a few more mild heart attacks. Yet for whatever reason, no tests were ever performed. She was told to go home and take it easy. (She's on disability, government-funded health care--does this sound about right to anyone else?) A few months ago, she was at an appointment a few blocks away from one of the local hospitals. She started to look very ill. Her caseworker noticed before she did, actually, and called an ambulance. I never did get whether she actually had another heart attack or not, but the problem was definitely her heart. She was taken to the hospital for an angiogram. They wanted to decide whether they should do an angioplasty, so of course needed the test results. Well, they shot her up with all the dye, etc., etc., and did their work.

Now this is where it gets interesting, so if no one's been paying attention, read now! LOL The angiogram showed absolutely no blockage in her arteries. What they did find, however, was shocking. One of the arteries leading out of her heart, splits into two, with one of them re-attached to the bottom of her heart. She can't get proper blood flow because half the blood that should be pumping into her body is recirculating right back into her heart! Okay--so here she is, 40+ years old, and they just now discover this!

So listed are a few people following the Atkins Nutritional Approach who suddenly die from a heart problem. Who knows when these problems even occurred? (And as some said, may well have been medication.) If their doctors were anything like my sister's they very well could've been walking time-bombs for years.

Okay, enough rambling!
Signed LilaCotton, who is sometimes borderline paranoid, and all the time extremely suspicious of anyone in authority! :D

[lizwhip]

I'm sure that no-one on a low-fat diet, ar any other kind of non-Atkins type diet, has ever developed heart problems. (?!?!?!?)

Liz

[CLASYS]

Regarding Dr. Barnard, who is really a PETA wolf in sheep's clothing, can anyone point me to the Atkins Center's response to this? I read about it at the time, that they were essentially saying that Barnard's report was the most biased, unprofessional, unscientific, etc. but I want to get their exact words on it.

These dopes basically quoted a worthless statistic: Of the 100 or so nutcases who self-diagnosed their ailments with no medical validation AND were motivated enough to post to a survey on the pea-brained website, over 20% of them [all 37 people!] PERCEIVE that they should blame Atkins for their perceived ailment[s] [or failed jobs, lovelife, finances, flat-feet, neuritis, neuralgia, "tired-blood", colorblindness, their favorite sports team losing, their local liquor store being out of their favorite brand of malt liquor, the local movie theatre charging too much, or any other aspect of life that has an *obvious* causal relationship to the Atkins diet :) .]

On a related topic: After Dr Atkins died, somesuch PETA "doctor" bamboozled the hospital where Atkins was treated into illegally sending him a copy of the medical records. These were later distorted into false claims that Atkins had died of morbid obesity CAUSED by his diet [as I understand it, he died of complications of a subdural hematoma in the brain after his nasty fall straight backwards, the worst way to fall! In the course of treatment, he had over 60 lbs. of edemic buildup, thus his weight at death was atypical for his weight up to just BEFORE the accident, etc.] Anyone got any links for this?

How many PETA "vegans" (Men are from Mars, Women are from Vegas? Oh, I guess that would be Las Vegans :) ) know that "organic" vegies are typically grown using cow manure (which might cause some resistent E. Coli strains infection)?

cjl (Everyone should have a pet alligator to feed PETA members to)

[tcastro]

People on low fat diets die all the time of various complications. However, LC diets are the current 'enemy', so every death of an LC dieter is magnified x20 in comparison to deaths of other dieters.

[black57]

Haven't we low carbers research fat enough to know what it is? I have read so many comments from people who do low carb yet, they continue to fear fats and call them bad. If you think that fats are bad, you ain't done the research. If you cannot tell me the purpose of the liver, gall bladder or glucagon, you shouldn't say anything about fats until you understand these organs and hormone. :(