New study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m

[Yo!]

look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
Obese Women

-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

[Mike V]

"yo!" <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than
> low carb.
http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?fu-
seaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness of
Macronutrient Composition
> of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------
>

do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

Wuz, is your reporting balanced? (;-}) (You are more
prejudiced than TC!)

"......On the other hand, IR women randomized to the LC/HF
diet lost significantly more weight than those randomized to
the HC/LF diet" Obese SI women lose more weight on a
hypocaloric diet that is low in fat content, while a
hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate and higher in fat
content appears to be more effective in obese IR women."

MikeV

....."Controversy exists as to whether the macronutrient
composition of a hypocaloric diet can enhance its
effectiveness. It is also unclear whether an
individual[rsquo]s insulin sensitivity determines their
response to a diet. We examined the effect of
energy-matched hypocaloric diets (400 kcal/d deficit)
composed of either high carbohydrate, low fat (HC/LF) or
low carbohydrate, high fat (LC/HF) on weight loss and
insulin sensitivity (Si) in obese women (n=24). Obese
insulin sensitive (IS: fasting insulin
<10[mu]U/ml) and obese insulin resistant (IR: fasting insulin
>15[mu]U/ml) women were randomized to either a
HC/LF (60% C, 20% F, 20% P) or LC/HF (40% C, 40%
F, 20% P) hypocaloric diet for 16 weeks. All food
was provided to the subjects. Body weight, body
composition, fasting lipids, resting metabolic
rate (RMR), and Si were measured at baseline and
again at the end of the dietary intervention.
Subjects lost at least the expected amount of
weight ([ge]5.8 kg). IS women randomized to the
HC/LF diet lost a significantly greater amount of
weight than those randomized to the LC/HF diet
(11.47±0.80 kg vs. 6.12±1.13 kg, p<0.01). On the
other hand, IR women randomized to the
LC/HF diet lost significantly more weight than those
randomized to the HC/LF diet (11.46±1.23 kg vs. 6.12±0.85
kg, p<0.05). RMR did not change significantly in any of the
groups. Si trended to improve in the IR groups (HC/LF:
2.22± 0.60% to 3.32± 1.04%; LC/HF: 1.49±0.54% to
3.56±0.66%; p=0.096) but remained unchanged in the IS
groups. Overall, changes in Si correlated with the degree
of weight loss (r=0.71, p<0.05). There were no significant
changes in cholesterol. Triglycerides decreased
significantly in all groups except the IR women on the
HC/LF diet. These findings demonstrate that baseline
insulin sensitivity in obese women predicts the
effectiveness to hypocaloric diets of varying macronutrient
compositions. Obese SI women lose more weight on a
hypocaloric diet that is low in fat content, while a
hypocaloric diet that is low in carbohydrate and higher in
fat content appears to be more effective in obese IR women.

[Jeff]

This is just an abstract (meaning it has not been
peer-reviewed).

The studies that have been done have had different results.
The answer of whether low-carb or low-fat is better is not
an easy one.

However, there is an easy answer: Low-cal is the key. If you
take in fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight.

Jeff

[John 'The]

Once upon a time, our fellow Jeff rambled on about "Re: New
study: low carb is WORSE than low fat over 4 m." Our champion
De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

>If you take in fewer calories than you burn, you will
>lose weight.

????

Who the heck wants to lose weight?

Oh you mean, ... Losers?

Ha, ... Hah, Ha! Pun intended

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ??? ???? KORNET -------------

The Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on
Weight Loss in Obese Women Is Dependent on Their Baseline
Insulin Sensitivity

Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research in
Clinical Nutrition -
06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 313-OR Authors:
MARC-ANDRE CORNIER, WILLIAM T. DONAHOO, JAMES
O. HILL, ROBERT H. ECKEL, BORIS DRAZNIN
Institution: Denver, CO

About Dr. Eckel.....

"Robert H. Eckel, M.D., Division of Endocrinology, Health
Sciences Center, University of Colorado. Research on the
"effect of medium chain triglycerides on glucose and lipid
metabolism in type II diabetes melitus" was supported by
Procter and Gamble. Research on "the effect of leptin on
postprandial lipid metabolism" was supported by Amgen.
(Undated resume on file at CSPI; accessed 6/18/02)"

I notice that there is no declaration as to who paid for this
particular piece of research.

And isn't it interesting how whenever a study slams the
low-carb diet, there always seems to be pharma sponsorship
involved somewhere in the researchers past, oresent or future.
Invariably. Always. Never fails.

Check out these two abstracts: 309-OR and 312-OR.

Check and mate. Nice try wuzzy.

TC

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

More on Dr. Robert H. Eckel:

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/eckel-r.html

What a character.

TC

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

Regarding Dr. Eckel, the author of this "study".

Dr Eckel the creationist:

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-346.htm

"Eckel is the chair of the American Heart Association
committee on nutrition..."

Corporate sponsors of the American Heart Association.

********************************************************PARTN-
ERS Partners recognizes corporations and foundations for
lifetime giving of $1,000,000 and above Archer Daniels Midland
Company – Illinois AstraZeneca LP – Pennsylvania
Aventis Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania Averitt Express
Associate Charities – Tennessee Bayer Corporation
– New Jersey Bristol-Myers Squibb Company – New
Jersey The Henrietta B. and Frederick H. Bugher Foundation
– New York Citi – Delaware GlaxoSmithKline –
Pennsylvania Guidant Corporation – Indiana Guidant
Foundation – Indiana Harriet and Robert Heilbrunn
– New York The J. Willard and Alice S. Marriott
Foundation – District of Columbia Carlos and Marguerite
Mason Trust – Georgia Medicine Shoppe International,
Inc. – Missouri Mercedes-Benz, USA, LLC – New
Jersey Merck & Co., Inc. – Pennsylvania Novartis
Pharmaceuticals Corp. – New Jersey Omron Healthcare,
Inc. – Illinois Pfizer, Inc. – New York Procter &
Gamble Company – Ohio Random House, Inc. – New
York Sanofi-Synthelabo – New York Schering-Plough
Corporation – New Jersey Subway – Connecticut
Takeda Pharmaceuticals – Illinois United Way of
Southeastern PA – Pennsylvania Walgreen Co. –
Illinois The Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Foundation –
Hawaii Wyeth-Ayerst Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania
*******************************************

Chew on that a while.

TC

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

Even more damning info about Dr Eckel.

Dr Eckel is on the Keystone Symposia advisory board:

http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/AdvisoryBoard.cfm

Here are the symposias sponsors:

http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/Sponsors.cfm

The infamous DB Allison, the master whore of the
pharmaceutical industry used Dr Eckel as a personal reference
on his CV. Check the reference section near the bottom of
this page.

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/obesectr/NYORC/DACV.html

also from his CV:

PAST GRANTS

Allison, D. B. (principal investigator), Eckel, R., Pi-Sunyer,
F. X., Fisler, J., & Ravussin, E. Advancing the Genetics of
Obesity: Strategies & Methods. An R13 (conference grant)
funded by the National Institute of Diabetes, Digestive and
Kidney Diseases and the Office of Research on Women's Health
and supported by numerous industrial sponsors. Total Amount:
$110,000. Conference held July, 1997.

TC

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

A bit on DB Allison from his CV:

INDUSTRY Consultant to Millenium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated
on issues related to the genetic influences on obesity.
Consultant to AMGEN on issues related to the clinical study of
leptin as an anti-obesity therapeutic, 1999. Consultant to
Regeneron Pharmaceuticals on issues related to the treatment
of human obesity, 1999. Consultant to Wilentz, Goldman, &
Spitzer, Attorneys at Law regarding OTC weight-loss product
claims litigation, 1999. Consultant to McKenna & Cuneo,
L.L.P., Attorneys at Law regarding anti-obesity drug
litigation, 1998 to present. Consultant to Fisons Corporation
& Mediva Pharmaceuticals regarding anti-obesity drug
litigation, 1998. Consultant to Spadoro & Hilson, Attorneys at
Law regarding actuarial lifetable estimation for obese
decedents, 1998. Consultant to Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals on
weight gain with neuroleptic medication, 1997-Present.
Consultant to Pfizer Central Research, Inc. on obesity related
issues, 1997-Present. Consultant to Proctor & Gamble regarding
olestra (Olean); 1998. Consultant to Decision Resources on the
pharmacological treatment of obesity, October, 1999. Member of
"Panel of Evaluators" for Current Drugs Ltd, a company that
provides expert information on drugs under research and
development, 1998. Consultant to Research Testing
Laboratories, Inc. regarding clinical trial of weight loss
preparation for Slim America, 1996. Member of the Nutritional
Advisory Board for Nabisco, Inc., 1994 - Present. Member of
the United Soybean Panel's Nutrition Advisory Board, 1996 -
Present. Member of the Wheat Council's panel of experts, 1998
- Present. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding
issues in the pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept,
1996. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in
the treatment of obesity - April, 1997. Consultant to Corning
HTA (for a project sponsored by Wyeth Ayerst) regarding the
economic benefits of obesity treatment, 1996-1997. Consultant
to the journal Patient Care on an article regarding the
pharmacological treatment of obesity, 1997. Consulted with
Glaxo Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the pharmacological
treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.

*********************

What would these companies do if everyone went on a low-carb
diet and didn't need to use their snake-oil treatments?

TC

[Jmk]

On 11/16/2003 1:54 PM, Mike V wrote:
> "yo!" <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net...
>
>>look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than
>>low carb.
>
> http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/index.cfm?-
> fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness of
> Macronutrient Composition
>
>> of the Diet on Weight Loss in Obese Women
>>
>>
>>-------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------
>>
>
>
> do I understand correctly?: LC=40% of calories? duh!

I thought that low carb said you could loose weight without
counting calories?

--
jmk in NC

[Jmk]

On 11/17/2003 12:36 PM, Susan wrote:

> In article jmk <jmknospam@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>
>>I thought that low carb said you could lose weight without
>>counting calories?
>
>
> Where does "low carb" say that? Who, exactly, is this "low
> carb" you're quoting?

I am very sorry that I was unclear. People on low carb
generally state that they do not count calories, they count
carbohydrates. People who use a calorie counting regime as a
weight loss plan do count calories. Therefore, it is
reasonable to assume that the calorie counting group counted
calories (and in this case with a deficit of 400 KCal per day
which would be less than one pound per week of weight loss)
and the low carbohydrate group counted carbohydrates. In fact,
Atkins own website states: "The Atkins Nutritional
Approach(TM) counts grams of carbohydrates instead of
calories."
--
jmk in NC

[Tcomeau]

yo! <mypcos@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bp8d5k$b5m$1@news1.kornet.net>...
> look at abstract #313, low fat lost more weight than low
> carb. http://www.attendeeinteractive.com/shows/ada0302/inde-
> x.cfm?fuseaction=Locator.SearchAbstracts++he Effectiveness
> of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on Weight Loss in
> Obese Women
>
>
> -------------- ÀÎÅÍ³Ý Ä«¸®½º¸¶ KORNET -------------

The Effectiveness of Macronutrient Composition of the Diet on
Weight Loss in Obese Women Is Dependent on Their Baseline
Insulin Sensitivity

Abstract Information Presented during: Emerging Research in
Clinical Nutrition -
06/17/2003 (08:00 - 10:00 AM) Abstract Number: 313-OR Authors:
MARC-ANDRE CORNIER, WILLIAM T. DONAHOO, JAMES
O. HILL, ROBERT H. ECKEL, BORIS DRAZNIN
Institution: Denver, CO

About Dr. Eckel.....

"Robert H. Eckel, M.D., Division of Endocrinology, Health
Sciences Center, University of Colorado. Research on the
"effect of medium chain triglycerides on glucose and lipid
metabolism in type II diabetes melitus" was supported by
Procter and Gamble. Research on "the effect of leptin on
postprandial lipid metabolism" was supported by Amgen.
(Undated resume on file at CSPI; accessed 6/18/02)"

I notice that there is no declaration as to who paid for this
particular piece of research.

And isn't it interesting how whenever a study slams the
low-carb diet, there always seems to be pharma sponsorship
involved somewhere in the researchers past, oresent or future.
Invariably. Always. Never fails.

More on Dr. Robert H. Eckel:

http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/people/eckel-r.html

What a character.

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-346.htm

"Eckel is the chair of the American Heart Association
committee on nutrition..."

Corporate sponsors of the American Heart Association.

********************************************************PARTN-
ERS Partners recognizes corporations and foundations for
lifetime giving of $1,000,000 and above Archer Daniels Midland
Company – Illinois AstraZeneca LP – Pennsylvania
Aventis Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania Averitt Express
Associate Charities – Tennessee Bayer Corporation
– New Jersey Bristol-Myers Squibb Company – New
Jersey The Henrietta B. and Frederick H. Bugher Foundation
– New York Citi – Delaware GlaxoSmithKline –
Pennsylvania Guidant Corporation – Indiana Guidant
Foundation – Indiana Harriet and Robert Heilbrunn
– New York The J. Willard and Alice S. Marriott
Foundation – District of Columbia Carlos and Marguerite
Mason Trust – Georgia Medicine Shoppe International,
Inc. – Missouri Mercedes-Benz, USA, LLC – New
Jersey Merck & Co., Inc. – Pennsylvania Novartis
Pharmaceuticals Corp. – New Jersey Omron Healthcare,
Inc. – Illinois Pfizer, Inc. – New York Procter &
Gamble Company – Ohio Random House, Inc. – New
York Sanofi-Synthelabo – New York Schering-Plough
Corporation – New Jersey Subway – Connecticut
Takeda Pharmaceuticals – Illinois United Way of
Southeastern PA – Pennsylvania Walgreen Co. –
Illinois The Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Foundation –
Hawaii Wyeth-Ayerst Pharmaceuticals – Pennsylvania
*******************************************

Dr Eckel is on the Keystone Symposia advisory board:

http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/AdvisoryBoard.cfm

Here are the symposias sponsors:

http://www.keystonesymposia.org/AboutUs/Sponsors.cfm

The infamous DB Allison, the master whore of the
pharmaceutical industry used Dr Eckel as a personal reference
on his CV. Check the reference section near the bottom of
this page.

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/obesectr/NYORC/DACV.html

also from his CV:

PAST GRANTS

Allison, D. B. (principal investigator), Eckel, R., Pi-Sunyer,
F. X., Fisler, J., & Ravussin, E. Advancing the Genetics of
Obesity: Strategies & Methods. An R13 (conference grant)
funded by the National Institute of Diabetes, Digestive and
Kidney Diseases and the Office of Research on Women's Health
and supported by numerous industrial sponsors. Total Amount:
$110,000. Conference held July, 1997.

A bit on DB Allison from his CV:

INDUSTRY Consultant to Millenium Pharmaceuticals Incorporated
on issues related to the genetic influences on obesity.
Consultant to AMGEN on issues related to the clinical study of
leptin as an anti-obesity therapeutic, 1999. Consultant to
Regeneron Pharmaceuticals on issues related to the treatment
of human obesity, 1999. Consultant to Wilentz, Goldman, &
Spitzer, Attorneys at Law regarding OTC weight-loss product
claims litigation, 1999. Consultant to McKenna & Cuneo,
L.L.P., Attorneys at Law regarding anti-obesity drug
litigation, 1998 to present. Consultant to Fisons Corporation
& Mediva Pharmaceuticals regarding anti-obesity drug
litigation, 1998. Consultant to Spadoro & Hilson, Attorneys at
Law regarding actuarial lifetable estimation for obese
decedents, 1998. Consultant to Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals on
weight gain with neuroleptic medication, 1997-Present.
Consultant to Pfizer Central Research, Inc. on obesity related
issues, 1997-Present. Consultant to Proctor & Gamble regarding
olestra (Olean); 1998. Consultant to Decision Resources on the
pharmacological treatment of obesity, October, 1999. Member of
"Panel of Evaluators" for Current Drugs Ltd, a company that
provides expert information on drugs under research and
development, 1998. Consultant to Research Testing
Laboratories, Inc. regarding clinical trial of weight loss
preparation for Slim America, 1996. Member of the Nutritional
Advisory Board for Nabisco, Inc., 1994 - Present. Member of
the United Soybean Panel's Nutrition Advisory Board, 1996 -
Present. Member of the Wheat Council's panel of experts, 1998
- Present. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding
issues in the pharmacological treatment of obesity - Sept,
1996. Consulted with Knoll Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in
the treatment of obesity - April, 1997. Consultant to Corning
HTA (for a project sponsored by Wyeth Ayerst) regarding the
economic benefits of obesity treatment, 1996-1997. Consultant
to the journal Patient Care on an article regarding the
pharmacological treatment of obesity, 1997. Consulted with
Glaxo Pharmaceuticals regarding issues in the pharmacological
treatment of obesity - Sept, 1996.

*********************

What would these companies do if everyone went on a low-carb
diet and didn't need to use their snake-oil treatments?

TC