Intuitive Eating

[sunkist]

I am a big proponent of Intuitive Eating which in a nutshell means - if you are craving something there is a reason for it and you should either eat that exact food or (if it's junk food you crave) try to figure out what your body is needing nutrient-wise that is causing said craving. My strong nightime cravings for raw egg yolks lead me to eat about 5 a night for two weeks or so and it was the major force in clearing up my dry skin etc.

Many people crave sweets when in fact they lack calcium. I have found that mineral deficiencies cause the greatest number of food cravings ( sometimes min. defic. even cause cravings for non-food items, like eating paint, dirt etc.) :eek:

I think we are so used to restricting our diets and NOT listening to our bodies that we can really get ourselves into some hot water nutritionally speaking. We eat at a certain time and not when we are hungry, I think alot of the times we don't know WHAT we want or need only what we SHOULD be eating.

Just a thought. Anyone else have an opinion on this? :read:

[Hellistile]

Sunkist:
I know that the body does crave things it needs and rejects things that are bad for it. For example:
1. Even a few years before going on any low carb diet, I had to stop using margarine because even the smell of it made me sick. My body was telling me that margarine was bad for me and to stop using it.
2. I had a stroke 7 years ago, which I survived. In the hospital, once I was able to speak and sit again, the only thing I craved was red grapes (because something in red grapes prevents the blood from clotting).
Since low-carbing, I have been trying to become more attuned to my body, taking more notice to the smell and taste of foods, because of all the harm done by those decades of ingesting chemicals in the foods I ate.

BTW I did find a local source (in the city where I don't have to drive far) for wild game, free range unmedicated bison, chicken and beef, ducks, wild game gourmet sausages, etc.
Anyone living in Edmonton can get them through Wildgame Consultants ~ Tel: 452-6890. Another step along the road to perfect eating accomplished.

[sunkist]

HELLISTILE
That is so cool!! I think our body is smarter than our psyches most of the time. And just how animals eat instinctively - I think we also can benefit from doing so.

Red Grapes - that is awesome - they are famous for their healing abilities to the entire Vascular system. I think it is due (in part) to the high Pycnogenol content.

It isn't easy in this world where every time you turn around there is a commerical with food in it - telling you that you should eat this, eat that. I think it is so important to learn hw to embrace silence so that you can hear the intuitive voice inside and do the right thing for our minds & bodies :roll:

[Shazzer]

I find this really interesting because the strongest craving I have is to be totally filled. The only thing that is really filling seems to be fat in whatever form I can eat it. Tonight I made fish for dinner and two hours later I still was hungry. It wasn't until I ate over 1/4 cup of almonds before I felt full.

I spent years abusing my body with carbohydrates that I thought were good for me. As a kid I never drank soda, only juice and milk. So I know that even after three months of lc and feeling great, I'm not totally healed. It is still hard to read/understand all of my bodily signals. But as the weeks go by on this diet, it seems like I eat more and more meat and less of everything else.

[nela]

How interesting!
I know that empty feeling after eating only lean meats and craving something with fat in it. What usually does it for me is a bit of cheese. Then I'm ok. Or I'll have the fat straight off a leg of cured ham. :yum: My husband gasps when he sees me eating the fat like that! :rolleyes: But I agree with all of you that if your body craves something, it probably needs it. With the following exception:

About Intuitive Eating...I actually bought that book :read: way back in January, when I was at my heaviest ever. I honestly felt inspired to follow the intuitive way of life. Alas, I soon found that what I craved the most was carbs, so I put on weight instead of taking it off. :cry:

I was obviously too addicted to carbs to trust my "intuition". the authors said that if you felt like eating a piece of cake, to do so. The problem was that I couln't stop at 1 piece! :nono: So much for my Intuitive Eating experiment! LOL.

There's really no point in doing Intuitive Eating if you haven't weaned yourself off carbs and sugar. I think the only way to effectively do that is by stopping cold turkey. They are like a drug, right? :skull: At least to me.

Any thoughts on this guys? :rheart:

[hazelnut]

Interesting thread. what does it mean when you crave peanut butter? what vitamin/mineral could I possibly be missing? Any thoughts? Also, if you can't get a hold of grassfed meats, should you still eat non-grassfed, is it worth the risk? Thanks :)

[sunkist]

Nela,
EXACTLY!! When I say Intuitive Eating it should NOT inlcude refined carbs, junk foods etc!! "I feel the need to eat an entire Carrot Cake" :lol:

To me that indicates we are definitely out of balance!

SO ....once we are safely away from the grips of the "Carb Monster" we can feel a bit more safe to listen to our own bodies!!


Hazlenut
Maybe a need for more fat? Try eating more animal fat as well maybe.

[JenofWi]

Hi. interesting. I really crave sweets and when you mentioned that it indicated a calcium problem I got worried. My grandmother on my mom's side, my aunt on my father's side both had/have osteoporosis. I noticed, too, when I was eating raw, that I developed a couple of calcium deposits on my eyelids.
It makes me wonder what is up with me. Do I have trouble assimilating calcium for some reason? I should probably take a calcium supplement. Can anybody recommend one? Right now I take Rainbow Light Iron free one a day multis, magnesium and fish oil.
When I switched to this way of eating, I didn't miss bread, chips, or any other starchy foods, but sugar!!!!!!!
I think it's the reason my loss has been stalled for a while. I'll do really well until a dessert is right in front of me. Then, forget it. All bets are off!
I may go check out that book.
Thanks

[PaleoDeano]

Nela, have to agree with you! if you crave sugar... it could be that you are experiencing sugar/carb withdrawals! Jen... the sugar craving thing... yes! i can definitely relate! i am a sugar junkie supreme! like you said, it is easy for me too, to give up all the other carbs... but sugar! Sunkist, i agree with what you say too! :) and, i have tried to be very silent and think about what it is my body really wants/needs (when i am having these carb/sugar cravings), and there are usually two things that i start to think of... one is ice-cold water! we never get enough, and often mistake thirst for hunger! and, the other is fatty meat!... like a juicy hamburger (smothered in sautéed mushrooms)! we need fat, and it is really the one thing that satiates us (that is our body thanking us, btw)... fat phobia has really helped to drive the mega-consumption of carbs! but, that is a fantastic way to get people to buy all that junk food! what a marketing ploy! push low-fat theories on everyone...... :rolleyes:

do your bodies a big favor and "just eat fat"! :yum:

[nela]

Sunkist and Dean,
glad to see I'm not alone in this! LOL. I wonder why the Intuitive Eating authors didn't examine the idea that a lot of their readers are totally addicted to carbs and sugar????

It just seems like such a waste of paper trying to tell people to "listen" to their cravings when you are dealing with a bunch of sugar/carb addicts!

That to me shows that the authors have no idea of what reality is. Reality is that a carb/sugar addicted person will JUMP at the chance of being given "free license" to have what they feel like. Woohoo!!!! Now I can have that cake and not feel guilty about it. I have the author's permission, after all...and they are reassuring me that after a while of eating cake I'll eventually want to eat healthy food. That day never arrived for me. :rolleyes:

Let me tell you that if I were to let myself loose and give in to my "intuition", all I'd have to eat all day long would be cake! LOL. I'd have cake for breakfast, lunch and dinner, along with a good dose of potato chips thrown in for when the sweetness got to be too much. Then back to cake again. (Maybe condensed milk would be a fave snack too). Been there, done that.

How's that for Intuitive Eating? LOL.
So I'm very glad to see I'm not the only one who questions the authors and their ideas, I'm glad to see that others have come to the same conclusions and have begun breaking that addiction. I compare it to telling a heroin junkie that he can have whatever he feels like because his "intuition" is wise...he'd just go for the drugs!
OK, point made, LOL.
Take care, everyone. :lol:

[Hellistile]

Friends:
I just wanted to add a few comments to this thread:
1. The longer I'm doing NeanderThin the less I crave all carbs including sugar, bread, etc. My son lives with me so there are a few carbs in the house but I am never tempted anymore.
2. My mind has completely switched it's way of thinking. Instead of worrying about ingesting too much fat, I worry that I've ingested too little. LOL
3. Fruit fulfills my need for sugar. Living in Edmonton limits the amount of fresh fruit that's available but I buy frozen berries when fresh fruit is limited.

I'm glad this site has a lively bunch of hunter gatherers because other paleo-caveman sites are absolutely dead.

Keep up the good work and let's recruit by example (I know it's hard because I want to shout to all the world about how great I feel and what this way of eating has done for me).

[sunkist]

Hi Everyone
I think Nela you were under the impression that when I say Intuitive Eating - I was referring to a specific BOOK or AUTHOR or ORGANIZED DIET, but I was actually just meaning anyone just listening to what their body is telling them to eat (aside from any sugars ,carbs, junk).

I didn't even know there was a book about intuitive eating so there may be MANY ideas espoused therein that I don't agree with. Just wanted to clarify that. :wiggle:

Anyway - I know that while I had an eating disorder and was anorexic - I craved fat for so long - but would refuse to give in and so gradulslly that craving turned to more and more carbs - then of course the more carbs I ate, the more I wanted and I was ALWAYS hungry. But as Dean said - FAT PHOBIA had me firmly in it's grips!! :(

Currently I am eating about 46-50 grams of fat per day so I can gain a FEW pounds, but then I will go to about 45 grams to MAINTAIN my weight. I remeber when I probably ate less that 5 grams of fat per day!!! YUCK!!!

[nela]

Hi Sunkist!
Yep, I understood exactly that....you weren't talking about a specific book, but the phrase Intuitive Eating just struck such a chord in me (from my bad experience) that I guess I got stuck talking about the book I'd read. LOL.

Anyway, you're right, there are many ideas in that book that don't coincide with the Paleo way of eating...it seems that many diet books (or those that claim not to be diet books...) are still expounding the low fat/high carb WOL.

Do you ever take the time to tell people about your Paleo way of eating? I find that most people think I'm nuts! LOL. Like in "What...a glass of store bought juice is BAD for you????" :lol:
Try telling them about the added sugar and they'll really think you're nuts! LOL.

[PaleoDeano]

Like what Hellistile said... Instead of worrying about ingesting too much fat, I worry that I've ingested too little!... that is what I often worry about. I wish I could get more (inner) parts of animals. I wish I had recipes for that kind of food. I know that the saturated fat and all the other incredibly good nutrients in the organs, brains, marrow, intestines, etc. would satiate me to the point that sugar would lose it's grip on me completely!

Intuitive eating would be much easier if the foods we were all eating just a few decades ago - let alone back in Paleo times (where are genes are still grounded) - were still around. Instead, we are engulfed in a sea of commercially produces, packaged junk! And, it is harder all the time to find real food. That is one of my goals, to get as far removed from purchasing food at the supermarket as I can. I am slowly getting there. I now purchase all my meat and eggs from farmers (not the supermarket).

Sunkist, do you really think it is necessary to count grams of fat? I would think that you need not count fat or protein... just try to get enough! I do not think they are responsible in any way with gaining weight (except muscle weight). I know they are very responsible in losing fat! The more animal fat I eat (void of carbs) the more effortlessly I lose body fat.

Yah, Nela, trying to explain this woe is like trying to explain quantum physics to a four year old. They don't want to listen, are way too distracted with fantasy land, and their attention span for this is just not there. This is quite analogous to the instant cool-aid, fast food mentality of the modern consumer. You are no expert, you are not on their tv sets, therefore how dare you try and think for yourself. Spoon-fed, refined, processed... that is the "normal" way. The tv says low fat, the words are screaming at them from every billboard and shopping aisle. What is there to question? There is a reason the diet is called SAD... because it truly is!

[sunkist]

Hi Guys

No I wouldn;t worry about counting fat grams as long as you are eating paleo. However if you are NOT eating paleo- then it will backfire on you!!

I just like to be aware of how many fat grams I need so I don't LOSE weight and start looking like a string bean again!! :wiggle:

Like you - i can eat fat all day long and not gain weight - unless I am eatoing too many starchy carbs.

I like the marrow inside bones too! :roll:

[Skinny9]

I am a big proponent of Intuitive Eating which in a nutshell means - if you are craving something there is a reason for it and you should either eat that exact food or (if it's junk food you crave) try to figure out what your body is needing nutrient-wise that is causing said craving.

I think that's true in many cases. As others said, you'd have to sort out the real body's intuition from the conditioning (by ads or diet theories or childhood training etc). And sometimes there are better ways to satisfy the craving than the food they have been using, if there's something unhealthy about it. And maybe it doesnt' have enough of the nutrient, so they keep eating more and more and never get enough. Or maybe there's some wierd feedback loop going on as with low blood sugar, where the more sugar you eat the more is taken OUT of the blood, so you have to break the cycle by eating something else.

I used to eat large amounts of crackers and butter, or spaghetti, or toast -- when what I really wanted was the salty butter or oil! I'm still trying to figure out what ingredient/s in Dromedary Gingerbread Mix make me crave the dough, uncooked. :-) And in Chai Nog.

But when the person learns to discriminate things like that, then I think you're right.

I think the same thing about ethnic staple foods and traditional 'balanced meal'. We need to distinguish real tradition, like real cravings, from things we've been taught by ads or theories less than a couple of hundred years old. :-) But things like Mexican beans/rice/corn/cheese or Indian menus must be doing something right, to have lasted for centuries. Same with the basic pattern of beginning a meal with tea or coffee, then a salad and bread, then entree, then dessert.

[LOOPS]

I just want to say something here. I have done Atkins for a long time, and when I wasn't feeling very well (got ill a lot and had a constant lump from a lymph-node in my neck) turned to the whole raw vegan thing. Got very ill on this too, although didn't do it for that long as it just took away my will to live and do things. I also turned into an irritable nervous wreck.

Ok, so I was being really extreme. But I have learnt some really really important things. First because I had cut out (from both diets) any bread, flour, chocolate, processed foods for such a long time, my body was able to tell me what it REALLY needed. And some really interesting things happened. Whilst I was eating Atkins, I could not get rid of a constant craving for fruit. NOT for other carbs, just fruit.

but I never had much, because I was barely losing on 20g carb a day, so I stuck to the low carb veggies. Big mistake. It turns out that having a slightly higher carb intake (from fruit and higher carb veggies like onions and more tomatoes) has actually helped my weightloss. Uh?? I thought. Well I did a bit of research, and it turns out that we need a certain amount of carbohydrate to make our thyroid work properly. Maybe not everybody is the same, but for me this is working.

When I went all raw, I had gone the other way. My body was literally screaming for protein and fat. And nuts and avocado were just not doing it for me. One afternoon I suddenly realized I had been craving BUTTER. I had one bulimic episode where I was eating a huge amount of cheese and butter. Later on that day, I thought, enough is enough, and made myself a large omelette. An hour later I was calm and placid and could concentrate for the first time in my whole raw experience. This is when I decided that going paleo was my best option.

So I had through being extreme realized which foods suit me, and which don't. I can eat cheese, but not milk, and not be bulimic. I can drink beer, but not eat bread, and I do not feel bloated.

I know this is a bit contraversial here, but beer has been one high carb thing that does not interfere with my plan. I know this is weird. If I drink a pint or two of quality dark beer, I sleep very well (do not on wine or ANY other alchohol), and do not get cravings. I used to drink rum and diet coke on Atkins, and slept awfully.

So what is going on?? I have actually lost weight since adding back in the things I love like fruit and beer and lots of tomatoes. Well someone told me dark beer contains a very large amount of potassium, a good amount of chromium, B vits, and of course the hops makes you sleepy. If you drink a moderate amount of beer, it has a hydrating effect. However if you push it too far, it dehydrates.

Also I can eat quite a few apples and this does not affect my weight loss. This turns the Atkins theory upside down. Apples are the highest carb fruit. If I eat 3 apples a day, this is already 60g carbs. Plus the beer that's 90g. I must be on days eating over 100g carbs, but ALL from fruit, veggies and beer, plus whatever is in the cheese etc. I could not lose on 20g carb before.

I am putting it down to that these things are good for my system working properly, so it is happy to lose weight. I am English and naturally there we have been drinking beer for eons. Also apples are a very English fruit. Could there be something in this?? After all, paleo is about eating what our ancestors ate?

Cheers

Loux

[Shazzer]

From your description, it seems that you have had some health problems in the past with bulimia. Thus your body probably was nutrient deficient or is still in the rebuilding process. If that is the case, weight loss should be a secondary priority to healing your body. Also remember that your body starts releasing insulin when you put high carb foods in your mouth. If your body is used to purging foods, it is also used to trying to survive by quickly absorbing what it can in the gut, specifically sugars. If you deprived your body of fats and proteins, you trained your body to get what it could out of food as quickly as possible.

Whatever the case may be, I would concentrate on feeling well, eating natural foods, getting enough fats and protein, finding out what nutriets you need, and examining what addictions you have instead of worrying about the carb level.

You enjoy some high carb foods like apples. Apples are not by themselves bad for you. In fact, apples have anti-oxidents among many other benefits. Maybe you're craving apples because of one of the vitamins. Perhaps your body adapts well to larger carbohydrate ratios than other people. Maybe with your body chemistry, your energy requirements necessitate instant energy. Maybe in time you will be able to eat fewer high carbohydrate foods as you heal.

What I would worry about is the crutch effect of foods you enjoy. Apples, like any food that induces release of insulin, can trigger blood sugar swings and be addicting.

On addictions, consider the alcohol. On Atkins, you allowed yourself Diet Coke and rum. Diet Coke has aspartame and rum is made from sugar - a lethal combination if you ask me. Aspartame is discouraged by Atkins and many other diets/doctors because it is not natural and can be harmful in large quantities (I've read several different articles on it - much controversey exists). Nevertheless, you now are drinking dark ales. In the greater scheme of things, beer is much better for you than the rum and diet cokes. But, it may be a problem if you only sleep well after drinking beer.

Fundamentally, make sure you feel well before trying to lose weight. Best of luck.

[LOOPS]

Hi Shazzer -

believe me, I am! In fact the most important thing for me right now is to liberate myself from any ingrained dogma in my head as to how I should be eating and what is healthy.

Bulimia is an eating disorder, which means that the weight issue IS important. I agree it shouldn't be, but unfortunately this is just the way it works. You have to work at it from both ends i.e. eat to get well and work on not being so scared all the time about how you look. The fear does not go easily, and this is the big problem.

What I was saying before, was that I am happy that I have found a compromise in being able to eat some of the things I was denying myself before. Sure, I probably do have an alchohol problem, but I am much better off drinking beer than I am drinking wine and other spirits. If I am not purging and am feeling happier generally, this is HUGE.

As for sleeping, I have always had a problem with this since childhood. And I have tried everything. I only mentioned beer helping in terms of it not getting in the way as much as wine seems to. In other words I sleep a full night even if I have had a beer or two, and wake up at a normal time feeling relatively good. Compare this to wine - I wake up dehydrated (even only after a glass early evening) at 3/4am and find it hard to get back to sleep. And I manage to play several hours of tennis every day, which I love. If I drink anything over 2 glasses of wine, I do not want to hit the tennis court so much, believe me! Sure, I have addictions, the most important one being bulimia. So it follows that I will work on this, and let the other ones be for now. Which is what I am doing to the best of my ability.

Hey, those apples - they DON'T trigger blood sugar swings. They contain so much fibre it is drastically slowed. How can you say apples are crutch foods??? If they are, they are good crutch foods, right? I just think it's one thing saying a croissant with jam on it is a crutch food, but then apples?? I have never had a bulimic session after eating apples!

Also, I WAS eating a lot of protein and fat before, and yes, it did help, but there was a lot missing. I don't believe I could get all my mineral/vitamin/other unknowns from just the salad and peppers etc. I was eating on Atkins induction. Sometimes I think I should have done Atkins the 'other way round' to how it advises i.e. start at maintenance and gradually take away any carbs as needed. Then again it does allow carbs like bread, so I wouldn't have found out that this doesn't really agree with me.

The more I do all this, the more I realize no-one's got the answers, because everyone's different. What I'm doing now is really working for once. Sorry if this post has been scathing at all; it's hard not to react when I have been battling so long with this and expect everyone else to understand how it all works.

Thanks for the mail - it's good to be encouraged.

Loux

[Shazzer]

Hi Loops,

I think it is wonderful that you are trying to find what works best for you. I think that is what makes the Neanderthin or natural way of eating so appealing - you eat what is appropriate to you and your body heals.

Let me clarify about apples and fruits. People, like me, who have/had insulin problems, or anyone else for that matter, must be very careful with anything that can cause an increase in insulin. By eating the Neanderthin way, I overcame reactive hypoglycemia. If previously I ate an apple, in a short time span would go hypoglycemic, causing me to crave more carbohydrates. I could eat a bowl of fruit just as easily as a bowl of candy, anything for the fix of high blood sugar. Even now, I won't eat a piece of fruit as a snack. I have it as part of a meal.

Anyway, it sounds as though you are working through a lot. I hope everything continues to go well for you.

Shazzer

[arcticslug]

I've learned that apples are really bad for me! I have been having some serious blood sugar problems lately but am back eating properly again. If I'm hungry and have an apple to curb the hunger it makes me feel weak and irritable. And out of all fruits apples seem to be one of the worst! So...........I'm staying away from them for now. When I'm hungry I have some meat, which works beautifully.

As for crutch foods, anything could be a crutch food for me. I consider anything that I eat when not physically hungry a crutch food. This usually means fruits and especially dried fruits like dates!! God I love dates. Very interesting to distinguish between real hunger and stress/boredom/etc.

[Scented1]

Great thread!

Since it was back a few pages, and we have some new people lets bump it up. :)

I think intuitive eating is important. Listenting to your body and asking questions or investigation of the cravings are crucial especially when releasing weight or working through emotional issues around food.

Everytime I get sick (which isn't often these days) I found myself craving McDonald's fries. I finally made the emotional connection from childhood and did the work around it and now...no more cravings for that food.

It is interesting to see what is our head talking and our body.
:)