Can the calf muscle do this?

[South Park]

Hi,

I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I realize
the calf attaches above the knee joint, and that 'rotary'
movments can extend a lever, but I'm having a hard time
visualizing. I would presume the poster is using an EMG
machine, or biofeedback or something like that.

This is in a physical therapy mode, not trying to use squats
to build calves. I know the calf stabilizes and strongly
contracts with squats, and may assist with the final 5% of the
move to completely straight leg.

Some PT patients have altered gait so that the quad is doing
most of the work of walking and the non-dominant leg can get
glute lazyness, even attrition of the glute.

I would think the glute would be doing this, then -maybe- the
calf at lockout.

Park.

> For several weeks I was doing full squats without using the
> quad muscles on my affected leg at all. I was shocked to see
> the needle on the gauge barely move when it was hooked up to
> my bad quad even though I was doing squats with my weight
> evenly distributed. Amazingly I could even do one-legged
> squats and still barely use my quad muscles - my calf was
> doing most of the work (without my mind consciously telling
> it to)! Hooked up to the machine I found that to get the
> needle to move like it did for my good quad that I had to
> lean back almost to the point of falling over to fully
> activate my bad quad while squatting. Just a few minutes
> with the biofeedback machine was all it took to determine
> where I needed to position my center of gravity to get the
> lazy quad working - the difference was so subtle that my
> experienced PT couldn't SEE anything wrong with my technique
> beforehand.

[Lyle McDon]

South Park wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I realize
> the calf attaches above the knee joint, and that 'rotary'
> movments can extend a lever, but I'm having a hard time
> visualizing. I would presume the poster is using an EMG
> machine, or biofeedback or something like that.
>
> This is in a physical therapy mode, not trying to use squats
> to build calves. I know the calf stabilizes and strongly
> contracts with squats, and may assist with the final 5% of
> the move to completely straight leg.
>
> Some PT patients have altered gait so that the quad is doing
> most of the work of walking and the non-dominant leg can get
> glute lazyness, even attrition of the glute.
>
> I would think the glute would be doing this, then -maybe-
> the calf at lockout.

Calf can not do this. At best it has a slight knee
FLEXOR effect.

If they'd EMG'ed his hams or glues, that's what got him out of
hte bottom. Calves were firing as an ankle/knee stabilizer.

Lyle

> Park.
>
> > For several weeks I was doing full squats without using
> > the quad muscles on my affected leg at all. I was shocked
> > to see the needle on the gauge barely move when it was
> > hooked up to my bad quad even though I was doing squats
> > with my weight evenly distributed. Amazingly I could even
> > do one-legged squats and still barely use my quad muscles
> > - my calf was doing most of the work (without my mind
> > consciously telling it to)! Hooked up to the machine I
> > found that to get the needle to move like it did for my
> > good quad that I had to lean back almost to the point of
> > falling over to fully activate my bad quad while
> > squatting. Just a few minutes with the biofeedback machine
> > was all it took to determine where I needed to position my
> > center of gravity to get the lazy quad working - the
> > difference was so subtle that my experienced PT couldn't
> > SEE anything wrong with my technique beforehand.

[Peter Alle]

"South Park" <South@Park.com> wrote in message
news:utgbovo516qu00uknv8hu7apnlromj14mo@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I realize
> the calf attaches above the knee joint, and that 'rotary'
> movments can extend a lever, but I'm having a hard time
> visualizing. I would presume the poster is using an EMG
> machine, or biofeedback or something like that.
>
> This is in a physical therapy mode, not trying to use squats
> to build calves. I know the calf stabilizes and strongly
> contracts with squats, and may assist with the final 5% of
> the move to completely straight leg.
>
> Some PT patients have altered gait so that the quad is doing
> most of the work of walking and the non-dominant leg can get
> glute lazyness, even attrition of the glute.
>
> I would think the glute would be doing this, then -maybe-
> the calf at lockout.

Yes. Point to notice is your quote's only using his quads when
leaning back,
i.e when the glutes can't be used without falling over
backwards.

Peter

> > For several weeks I was doing full squats without using
> > the quad muscles on my affected leg at all. I was shocked
> > to see the needle on the gauge barely move when it was
> > hooked up to my bad quad even though I was doing squats
> > with my weight evenly distributed. Amazingly I could even
> > do one-legged squats and still barely use my quad muscles
> > - my calf was doing most of the work (without my mind
> > consciously telling it to)! Hooked up to the machine I
> > found that to get the needle to move like it did for my
> > good quad that I had to lean back almost to the point of
> > falling over to fully activate my bad quad while
> > squatting. Just a few minutes with the biofeedback machine
> > was all it took to determine where I needed to position my
> > center of gravity to get the lazy quad working - the
> > difference was so subtle that my experienced PT couldn't
> > SEE anything wrong with my technique beforehand.

[Piscanthro]

"South Park" <South@Park.com> wrote in message
news:utgbovo516qu00uknv8hu7apnlromj14mo@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I realize
> the calf attaches above the knee joint,

The calf is attached BELOW the knee joint, not above. Quads
and hamstrings are responsible for flexing the knees; calves
flex the ankles.

[Z_bumbi]

"Piscanthropus Profundus"
<profundus.removethisspambotfodder@rhotmail.com> wrote in
message news:<MNyib.6142$Ol.134074@read1.cgocable.net>...
> "South Park" <South@Park.com> wrote in message
> news:utgbovo516qu00uknv8hu7apnlromj14mo@4ax.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I
> > realize the calf attaches above the knee joint,
>
> The calf is attached BELOW the knee joint, not above. Quads
> and hamstrings are responsible for flexing the knees; calves
> flex the ankles.

Read your anatomy chart again, gastrocnemius is attached above
the knee joint.

Bjorn <I don´t have a fancy signature

[Bill]

> > >
> > > I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I
> > > realize the calf attaches above the knee joint,
> >
> > The calf is attached BELOW the knee joint, not above.
> > Quads and
hamstrings
> > are responsible for flexing the knees; calves flex the
> > ankles.
>
> Read your anatomy chart again, gastrocnemius is attached
> above the knee
joint.
>
> Bjorn

So is the Plantaris.

[Lyle McDon]

Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:
>
> "South Park" <South@Park.com> wrote in message
> news:utgbovo516qu00uknv8hu7apnlromj14mo@4ax.com...
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I
> > realize the calf attaches above the knee joint,
>
> The calf is attached BELOW the knee joint, not above. Quads
> and hamstrings are responsible for flexing the knees; calves
> flex the ankles.

Gastroc attaches above the knee. Calves have a weak knee
flexion action. Quads extend the knee, NOT flex. Hams flex the
knee and extend at the hip.

Lyle

[Theresa]

Lyle McDonald wrote:
> Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:
>>
>> "South Park" <South@Park.com> wrote in message
>> news:utgbovo516qu00uknv8hu7apnlromj14mo@4ax.com...
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'm trying to imagine how this would be possible. I
>> > realize the
>> calf > attaches above the knee joint,
>>
>> The calf is attached BELOW the knee joint, not above. Quads
>> and hamstrings are responsible for flexing the knees;
>> calves flex the ankles.
>
> Gastroc attaches above the knee. Calves have a weak knee
> flexion action. Quads extend the knee, NOT flex. Hams flex
> the knee and extend the hip.
>
> Lyle

And rectus femoris - one of the quads - attaches above the
hip, and is a (weak) hip flexor.