Water poisoning - hyponatraemia

[gilibel]

I think I drink TOO MUCH water!...

Measured my "standard" glass, and it contains 50cl (16.9 US fl.oz/17.6 UK fl.oz). And I drink about TEN of those daily... Yikes.

Have heard of "water poisoning" - hyponatraemia, where the brain swallows up from too much water and too little sodium. People have died drinking too much water when on the drug extacy. Hmmm... Must read up on that... Maybe that's why I've felt woozy these last few days. Gulp.

Found this thread on the board:
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=103191

...but I'm not totally convinced yet.


Found a few articles too:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/halsa/story/0,2789,337318,00.html
(in Swedish)

Extract, rough translation:
We're constantly urged to drink lots of water. But for some people it could be life-hazardous. Especially pregnant women who are to give birth risk both their own and their foetus life by following these recommendations. "That it should be healthy to drink lots of water is complete nonsence from beginning to end" says dr Agnes Wold at Sahlgrenska Hospital in Gothenborg. [...] The problem that occurs when you drink too much water is that the salt balance in your body goes wrong when you urinate. The human body can not dispose of too high amounts of water. The water remains in your body and penetrates the cells. "What you die from is that water penetrates your brain cells. You get cerebral oedema and the circulation of the blood is halted" says Agnes Wold.


Some articles in English:
http://www.coolrunning.co.nz/articles/2002a011.html
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/feb3/parr/parr.html

Input, anyone?

Cheers,
/gil

[Natrushka]

It's not techniacally 'water poisoning' it's more an excessive loss of sodium that is not replaced. Yes, it has been reported to have happened to extacy users and to long distance runners who do not replace sodium when they replace water.

What is too much? I don't know. I know I drink about 6 litres a day and I'm fine. Most of us get more than enough sodium from out diets - dairy products, bacon, saussage and of course anything processed (SF puddings / jellos) is full of sodium.

Nat

[gilibel]

Thanks Natrushka.
I'm with you on the sodium aspect of it. However the doctor in the article formulates it a bit differently (Not a word about sodium-deficiency):

The human body can not dispose of too high amounts of water. The water remains in your body and penetrates the cells. "What you die from is that water penetrates your brain cells. You get cerebral oedema and the circulation of the blood is halted" says Agnes Wold."

Now, that's what makes me worried...

[Natrushka]

I think the author just left something out ;)

"Hypo" means too little and "Natremia" stands for sodium status.

All of the other articles you posted links to refer to sodium levels as the culprit for this condition.

Here is another: http://www.emedicine.com/ped/byname/hyponatremia.htm

Nat

[Natrushka]

BTW, if you're feeling woozy and dizzy, it's likely because of the diuretic effect of LCing. You do need to replace those electrolytes - and you're probably getting adequate sodium from you diet, potassium on the other hand is a recommended LC supplement. Have a look through the Supplements / Nutrition forum - there is a very recent thread with a lot of good information on potassium right near the top.

Nat

[Natkins]

Hi there.

I actually had a hyponatremic seizure from drinking too much water and ended up in the emergency room, so yes, it CAN happen. Too much water will flush away too many of the essential electrolytes your brain needs to function (including, but not limited to sodium).

HOWEVER, I have a medical condition which causes abnormal thirst and that particular occasion, I had drunk more than 200 ounces of water. It is VERY unlikely that a "normal" person could drink that much in a day, so I think most of you have nothing to worry about!!

:)

[sourdaisy]

16.9 oz times 10 = 169 ounces a day. That's awfully close to 200oz. Every person is different and that amount can be too much for you.

[gilibel]

BTW, if you're feeling woozy and dizzy, it's likely because of the diuretic effect of LCing. You do need to replace those electrolytes - and you're probably getting adequate sodium from you diet, potassium on the other hand is a recommended LC supplement. Have a look through the Supplements / Nutrition forum - there is a very recent thread with a lot of good information on potassium right near the top.

Thanks Nat. I'll check the link. Although, I use potassium salt (and quite a lot of it) in my cooking. My average Fitday.com value of potassium is around 3.500 mg. Don't know if that's low or high. First week of induction (when I lost 11lbs) I drank less water and felt less woozy though. Second week the wooz started, I've drunk more and I've "only" lost 3 lbs. Ah well. Lifes little mysteries, huh.

Thanks Natkins and sourdaisy!
I think I'll cut down a glass or two and see how it goes.

Cheers!
/gil

[Natrushka]

Potassium is more important, gil, as it relates to sodium. You want a ratio of about 2:1 (potassium:sodium). 3,500mg is good, if sodium is below 2,000mg - that will effect water retention.

If you're eating very little processed foods you could be low on sodium. I know when I KISS, I run under 1,000mg of sodium.

Something other things to consider - are you working out more? Have you decreased your calories? Did you give up caffeine as per Induction? All might account for that woozy feeling. It can take longer for some of us to adjust to LC and detox than others.

HTH :)
Nat

[gilibel]

Yes, my ratio is about 2:1 according to Fitday (potassium 3500 mg/sodium 1900 mg), so that should be ok then. I don't eat any processed food at all, make all from scratch (plenty of marinated meat, poultry, fish and greens).

My calorie level fluctuates, Haven't really given it a thought until a couple of days ago (before that it could be anything from 2500-1000 a day). Now I try to keep it around 1400-1600, since I'm not moving around much.

I have cut down on coffee slightly, to reduce carbs. Also cut down on diet coke. Maybe that's it. I'm a true caffeinist so from today I take a caffeine pill a day instead, to prevent me from strangling some innocent bystander... Also bought some Rhodiola rosea pills to see what it could do for me.

I'm definately not working out more. LOL. Have hardly moved since I started this, my energy level is down below sea level...

Thanks for the ideas!! :)

/gil

[Natrushka]

*lol* Bystanders are innocent? Regardless, strangling is not good. A wise move on your part to not cut out the caffeine completely ;)

Low energy is definitely a sign you're adjusting to everything. I'm curious though- are you taking magnesium as well? It's one of those catch 22s. Potassium really helps with the fatigue and dizziness, but w/o adequate magnesium it doesn't work. RDA for magnesium is 500mg, and it should come with calcium (the two work best together) If you're experiencing any cramps the cal/mag will take care of that as well.

Cheers,
Nat

[gilibel]

Yes, I do take an extra 300mg pill of magnesium a day, plus 800-1000mg extra calcium. (I made a list of all my supplements in my journal if you're interested to have a peekie. ;) ) According to Fitday the RDA for magnesium is 320mg, according to the Swedish Health Department it's 360... And my average for the past two weeks has been around 200% of Fitdays recommendations, which means I must get some 500-700mg daily. Well, nevertheless.

You're absolutely right about cramps, Nat. In the beginning of the second week I experienced horrible calf cramps - never really had that before. Woke up two days in a row with it, after having stretched my legs while still half asleep. It was horrible. Read up on it (googled a bit) and found out that pregnant women (which I'm not) often are recommended to take extra calcium and folic acid to prevent cramps. Bought some folic acid the same day and have taken 1 pill, 400 mcg daily ever since. And more calcium than before.

Thanks for your interest! This is great fun to discuss! :)

Greeties!
/gil

[Jeanner]

I have been hospitalized with hyponatremia after my brain surgery this year. It was awful. My sodium level was 114 when I was admitted. I was told that I was very lucky to not be having seizures. Scary!